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Archive 15 | ← | Archive 17 | Archive 18 | Archive 19 | Archive 20 |
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Should the lead sentence say that the State of Palestine is "a state"? – St.nerol ( talk) 07:26, 12 October 2023 (UTC)
I apologize for not starting the RfC in a proper way; it's clear that I should have asked a more experienced editor. As for my intentions, they could hopefully be clarified by reading the short preceding discussion. Contrary to @ Selfstudier, I have made no assertion about the statehood of Palestine. I have pointed to a lack of consensus in the reliable sources. – St.nerol ( talk) 21:05, 12 October 2023 (UTC)
has been blockaded Israel --> has been blockaded by Israel — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2001:1C01:4E03:CD00:D9F2:E8F2:B:E9E3 ( talk) 02:08, 13 October 2023 (UTC)
A number of acronyms are used without a previous reference. Specifically PLO and PNA in the third paragraph. It would help greatly to have them link to their articles. Xitit ( talk) 16:24, 15 October 2023 (UTC)
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Incorrect Statement Quoted: "Officially governed by the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO), it claims the West Bank (including East Jerusalem) and the Gaza Strip as its territory, though the entirety of that territory has been under Israeli occupation since the 1967 Six-Day War.[5][18]"
Incorrect statement that the Palestinian Territories (West Bank and Gaza) have been under Israeli occupation since 1948. Gaza has been under full autonomy and under self control since 2005. The PA took it back in 2005 and Hamas took over full governance and control in 2007.
Evidence:
Wikipedia page: /info/en/?search=Israeli_disengagement_from_Gaza
Please change:
...it claims the West Bank (including East Jerusalem) and the Gaza Strip as its territory, though the entirety of that territory has been under Israeli occupation since the 1967 Six-Day War.
To the following:
...it claims the West Bank (including East Jerusalem) and the Gaza Strip as its territory, though with respect to Gaza, it has been under self governed autonomy by the P.A. from 2005-2007 and by Hamas from 2007 to the present day. Newart61 ( talk) 17:20, 23 October 2023 (UTC)
The last RFC is here, it says
"The community agrees that Palestine is a state. There is substantial and well-argued support that says we should add certain qualifiers such as "sovereign" or "de jure" in front of the word "state", but this falls short of an actual consensus to add these words. There is also no consensus to remove the disputed words. So the question is what to do without a consensus....... I believe it's right to remove the disputed phrases and I will do that with my next edit."
There are other discussions still on this talk page (two of them) and multiple others in the archives, there is no consensus to qualify the word state.
Bringing out of date or a limited number of sources are no justification for editing against consensus, a new RFC will be required to do that. Selfstudier ( talk) 17:42, 15 October 2023 (UTC)
what I think is neededis not the issue, there is a consensus that Palestine is a state. Selfstudier ( talk) 22:15, 18 October 2023 (UTC)
In the infobox, it states that “all of the territory is occupied by Israel.” However the argument is that area A and most notably Gaza do not fall under actual military occupation. However, Israel controls significant aspects of these territories, including Gaza. Would it be more correct to say “all controlled by Israel” as opposed to “occupied?” The Great Mule of Eupatoria ( talk) 11:33, 27 October 2023 (UTC)
See https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/international-and-comparative-law-quarterly/article/abs/status-of-gaza-as-occupied-territory-under-international-law/654DB8FE844ED96C47AAA3B213D438F0 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Selfstudier ( talk • contribs) 11:37, 27 October 2023 (UTC)
“The state claims the West Bank (including East Jerusalem) and the Gaza Strip as its territory, though the entirety of that territory has been under Israeli occupation since 1967.”
There are no Israelis occupying either of these areas. Israel vacated Gaza and handed it over to the PA in 2005. Hamas subsequently took control, suspended elections in Gaza 17 years ago, and destroyed the groundwater with malfunctioning wastewater treatment making them dependent on Israel. An Aljazeera reference? Really???
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/gaza-strip-controls-s-know-rcna119405 24.113.96.238 ( talk) 20:08, 17 October 2023 (UTC)
"Although the concept of the Palestine region and its geographical extent has varied throughout history, it is now considered to be composed by the modern State of Israel, the West Bank and the Gaza Strip."
- Rubin, 1999, The World Encyclopedia of Contemporary Theatre: The Arab World, p. 186, at Google Books
A book on contemporary theatre is not an appropriate source to define geopolitical boundaries, nor is the editor of the book qualified to discern the veracity of that statement. Spork2367 ( talk) 19:41, 13 November 2023 (UTC)
The PLO has not been the government or leaders of Palestine since 2006, when Hamas was put into power and has been ever since. 63.155.55.204 ( talk) 07:01, 19 November 2023 (UTC)
Is there any scholarly consensus as to whether SoP actually qualifies as a state? The most recent academic treatise I could find weighing the issue concludes that "It is a subject of controversy as to whether the State of Palestine [can] be considered a State in accordance with classical international law definitions." [1] Another somewhat recent book from OUP summarizes that "while Palestine enjoys some of the attributes of statehood, primarily international recognition, it would be wrong to classify Palestine as a state". [2] In light of this it seems untenable to have the first sentence of our article simply assert statehood. – St.nerol ( talk) 08:12, 9 October 2023 (UTC)
Let me suggest two possible solutions:
– St.nerol ( talk) 13:01, 11 October 2023 (UTC)
Read the well cited https://iccforum.com/media/background/gaza/2009-05-19_Quigley_Memo_on_Palestine_Declaration.pdf written before the UN upgrade to observer state at the UN and the subsequent detailed review of the question as part of the decision to allow an ICC investigation, overruling US, Israel and some others arguing that that the ICC does not possess territorial jurisdiction because Palestine cannot be considered a state. Selfstudier ( talk) 14:43, 13 October 2023 (UTC)
References
Why is Palestine, an observer to the United Nations (UN) recognized by 138 other UN member states, referred to as a "partially recognized state with a "status" parameter on its infobox over its recognition, while Taiwan, which has no representation to the UN and is recognized by 12 other UN member states, is referred to as a "country" with no "status" parameter present on its infobox over its recognition? Why the inconsistency? 175.198.165.9 ( talk) 10:02, 13 October 2023 (UTC)
signficant biasGet used to it. It's a state, that will do ftb. Selfstudier ( talk) 19:07, 2 December 2023 (UTC)
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106.71.7.135 ( talk) 03:31, 9 March 2024 (UTC)
Instead of state of Palestine, it is Country
Someone remove the edit by DavidRoth. It contains personal political views, is not backed up by any sources, and labels people as terrorists. This is vandalism and is not welcome here. XenonDelta ( talk) 22:09, 27 November 2023 (UTC)
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The “all claimed territory is occupied by Israel” isn’t correct. 49.3.77.247 ( talk) 01:40, 11 December 2023 (UTC)
Why doesn't it say "palestine is a country", it says "Israel is a country" on "israel".
Alexander Shipfield (
talk)
01:16, 12 March 2024 (UTC)
WP:ARBECR, non ECR editors may only make edit requests
::Please comment your thoughts. This is my first post here as I enjoy writing and editing for various projects and have discovered this community just recently.
Blackhawk Crewchief (
talk)
13:42, 22 March 2024 (UTC)
WP:ARBECR
Best not to respond to non ECR editors, who may only make edit requests per WP:ARBECR (can also just remove, citing same policy, since there are replies, I have just struck the comment). Selfstudier ( talk) 13:57, 22 March 2024 (UTC) Going to archive this since it is going nowhere and only new comment is an ARBECR vio, Selfstudier ( talk) 13:57, 22 March 2024 (UTC)
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. In the Etymology section, change "General use of the term 'Palestine' or related terms to the area at the southeast corner..." to "General use of the term 'Palestine' or related terms to an area at the southeast corner..."
The definite article suggests a wider meaning that originally given to the term, which gained terrritory only during the Roman Empirial period. 24.193.29.184 ( talk) 05:01, 11 December 2023 (UTC)
"The definite article suggests a wider meaning that originally given to the term, which gained territory only during the Roman Empirial periodNot sure what the issue is here, what is the difference, in terms of geography, between "the" and "an" in this context? Is there an explanatory source? Selfstudier ( talk) 12:45, 11 December 2023 (UTC)
the history should be corrected to include Canaan, Palestine dating back to when Jesus was born. The histt starting in 1947 is soo deliberately misleading.. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:410:8181:5200:152a:9edf:ac2e:7111 ( talk) 11:36, 25 December 2023 (UTC)
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Please link the
United Nations in the second sentence of the article (in the lead). The result (just not in green) would be: It is officially recognized as a state by the
United Nations and numerous countries.
DirtySocks357(WreckItRalph) (
talk)
03:01, 9 April 2024 (UTC)
'''[[
User:CanonNi]]'''
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In the 4th paragraph of the article (the lead), please remove the following sentence: The state strives to build and strengthen its institutions, promote economic development, and improve the well-being of its citizens.
The reason is: Per common sense, just about every state/country has this aim, Palestine is not an exclusive to this. The sentence has a tone of Palestinian support, kind of.
DirtySocks357(WreckItRalph) (
talk)
13:43, 9 April 2024 (UTC)
Done. The sentence has a tone of Palestinian support, kind of
Unsourced commentary is not required for an edit request.
Selfstudier (
talk)
13:51, 9 April 2024 (UTC)
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2001:4DF7:2:CAD4:1CF6:9220:3E6D:D538 ( talk) 13:07, 13 April 2024 (UTC)
I dont see you mantioned about hamas and terror organization by this flag
'''[[
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English translation of the name of the Palestinian Anthem is stated in Wikipedia as “Fedayeen Warrior”. However, after listening to the anthem and reading the lyrics it is important what context the word is used in, as it results in significantly different meaning. In the context of the anthem, “fida’i” is composed of “fida”, meaning “sacrifice” and the personal possessive suffix “-i”. Therefore an accurate translation of the name of the Palestinian National Anthem is “My Sacrifice”. I implore the moderators make the change and correct the mistake as the translation listed in the page are simply inaccurate and may lead to gross misunderstandings on what Palestine is and what its anthem is meant to evoke. 188.71.226.199 ( talk) 10:35, 27 December 2023 (UTC)
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- "Invaded by arabs", might be useful to mention that before that happened 250,000 Palestinians were already expelled with notable massacres like Deir Yassan. The phrasing is slanted and doesn't represent the Palestinian side, which is best put as the word "Nakba".
- Rearrange to mention oslo earlier, as it is most relevant to the make-up of Palestine
- I think saying "hamas seized power" is fine, but you should mention the attempted coup that their seizure was in response to. There's just a trend of only showing Israeli side of events and omitting key events.
-Hamas should never be mentioned before oslo as well, otherwise this article is just in service of "news" rather than historical continuity Mohammed Al-Keesh ( talk) 02:47, 16 January 2024 (UTC)
Not done, edit request(s) must be of the form "please change X to Y". ("Invaded by arabs" is not in the article for example). Selfstudier ( talk) 13:09, 16 January 2024 (UTC)
@ Dovidroth has reverted my changes. I suggest we undo the revert.
It might be worth noting that Dovidroth has been banned from the Palestine/Israel Conflict topic for 90 days: /info/en/?search=User_talk:Dovidroth#Notice_that_you_are_now_subject_to_an_arbitration_enforcement_sanction
My changes can be summarized as:
I suggest we reincorporate my changes. DMH43 ( talk) 20:58, 2 January 2024 (UTC)
References
p.66, at 1946 "The League demanded independence for Palestine as a "unitary" state, with an Arab majority and minority rights for the Jews." ; p.67, at 1947 "The League's Political Committee met in Sofar, Lebanon, on 16–19 September, and urged the Palestine Arabs to fight partition, which it called "aggression", "without mercy". The League promised them, in line with Bludan, assistance "in manpower, money and equipment" should the United Nations endorse partition." ; p. 72, at December 1947 "The League vowed, in very general language, "to try to stymie the partition plan and prevent the establishment of a Jewish state in Palestine
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I want to edit this one because I want to change it to the Palestinian one. It would improve better if I did it AnnoyinAyman ( talk) 07:13, 10 March 2024 (UTC)
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The last part of the beginning of the page (the text which says "the Palestinian government collapsed") links to Palestinian National Authority, specifically to the part "#2024_government_collapse". Although due to a recent edit, that part of the page no longer exists, since it has been renamed. It should now link to the "#2024_mass_resignation" part. SewSown ( talk) 23:29, 10 March 2024 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: not moved. – robertsky ( talk) 14:04, 12 March 2024 (UTC)
State of Palestine → Palestine (state) – The vast majority of country titles aren't named like "State of X" but rather just "X". In Palestine's case, it should also have the parenthetical "(state)" to disambiguate with Palestine (region). JDiala ( talk) 16:08, 5 March 2024 (UTC)
Just want to make sure that there is awareness of the existence of two Wikipedia articles that seem to refer to the same entity. Each says they are different than the other, yet shows the same national flag and coat of arms. Geographically, one consists of the West Bank and Gaza, whereas the other is only the West Bank. FeralOink ( talk) 17:54, 23 March 2024 (UTC)
Why does the opening sentence call Palestine a country? It's only recognized as such by 139 of the 193 UN member states. The sentence was correct for decades. Why has it now been edited incorrectly? Please undo Joséthewikier's revision. His edit description strikes me as quite goofy and biased as well, comparing Palestine to much more widely-recognized countries. Palestine is a partially recognized state in the Middle East, not a country. /info/en/?search=International_recognition_of_the_State_of_Palestine Uchiha Itachi 25 ( talk) 12:16, 25 March 2024 (UTC)
The most recent discussion, this comes up every so often, the consensus is for "state" I think, if not it should be, as that is the most common usage. Selfstudier ( talk) 12:35, 25 March 2024 (UTC)
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Palestine is bordered by Israel to the north and west, not to the north and east as stated. ASpoor ( talk) 10:19, 11 April 2024 (UTC)
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I've found a misspelling in the section "Oil and gas": beleived -> believed AX29 ( talk) 19:05, 18 April 2024 (UTC)
I've found a typo in the section "Roman Empire". In the second paragraph and third sentence, he -> The PokemasterRav ( talk) 11:34, 21 April 2024 (UTC)
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In the very last sentence of the lead (paragraph 4), please revise the following sentence from: It is one of the most educated countries the Arab world and the Middle East and hold massive reserves of oil and gas.
to: It is one of the most educated countries in the Arab world and the Middle East, with massive reserves of oil and gas.
…or at least something similar, thanks!
DS537(WIR)
14:13, 22 April 2024 (UTC)
In
this edit from earlier this month and others, @
Kharbaan Ghaltaan rewrote (without edit summary) much of the lead, introducing imprecise/unencyclopedic
purple prose like Palestine's ancient history spans thousands of years, with its crossroads location witnessing the rise and fall of empires, shaping world history
and removing some of the language that discussed Palestine's limited recognition/control over its territory. It appears that this article is surprisingly poorly monitored and that many of the deleterious contributions have not been reverted or fixed up. Could some more experienced editors review the edit history and make changes as needed?
Sdkb
talk
18:22, 22 April 2024 (UTC)
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There may be some redundancy in the first paragraph of the lead of the article. The lead currently mentions that Jerusalem is the proclaimed capital twice with only one sentence in between. This feels redundant, and, if others agree, someone should remove either the first mention or the second mention (I suggest the first, because the sentence where the second one is mentioned is more related to geography, however, I don't particularly mind). Thank you in advance, and have a nice day! 90.139.2.187 ( talk) 18:59, 29 April 2024 (UTC)
Done. Selfstudier ( talk) 19:04, 29 April 2024 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: not moved. ( closed by non-admin page mover) Vpab15 ( talk) 21:37, 29 April 2024 (UTC)
– Per WP:COMMONNAME and the upcoming UNSC vote on Friday to have Palestine upgraded as a UN member, I suggest this article be renamed to simply "Palestine" like all other country articles in this Wikipedia. It doesn't make sense to use Ireland as the Republic of Ireland or the Republic of China as two articles with one on the mainland and the other on Taiwan. Even the Google Trends uses Palestine more than the State of Palestine itself. Kindly keep this debate civil. Silence of Lambs ( talk) 00:03, 18 April 2024 (UTC)
[Please note that this comment is unrelated to the violence and conflict re Israel and Gaza that is happening now.] Under the heading "Early Religious"(sic) is a sentence beginning: "Jesus performed miracles, ..." referenced to item 39. I am upset that Wikipedia did not correct this statement, which was published as factual. "Jesus performed miracles, ..." is not factual, it is an item of traditional Christian doctrine. Rularue ( talk) 01:33, 30 April 2024 (UTC)
Trinidad and Tobago recognized the State of Palestine on 2 May 2024.
The number of UN members that recognize the State of Palestine needs to be updated to 141. Surfacedextrous ( talk) 06:16, 5 May 2024 (UTC)
In the lead, it says "It is officially recognized as a state by the United Nations and numerous countries." I understand this last bit is imprecise, as "numerous" may mean 20 or 30, while the real number is significant: 140 of 193 UN members, meaning 72.5%; for that, I would suggest correcting the bit "and numerous countries" to "and by the vast majority of the world's countries". 2A02:14F:177:44BB:A5D4:927E:38DF:5A18 ( talk) 12:03, 30 April 2024 (UTC)
2011 vote is actually considered a de facto (not de jure) recognition. This might have been the case for some Western European or American countries, I don't know. Much of the remaining world has been having diplomatic relations with Palestine for a decade or two, with Palestnian embassies operating in many of the world's capitals and Palestinian ambassadors being normal members of the diplomatic corps. — kashmīrī TALK 13:29, 7 May 2024 (UTC)
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In the first one or two paragraphs there is a grammatical error, with the article saying “it have a combined area” instead of “it has”, the latter being correct. MrGamerMooseBTW ( talk) 12:54, 10 May 2024 (UTC)
"The Palestinian Authority governs parts of the West Bank while Hamas controls the Gaza Strip. Currently the country is challenging from expansion of Israeli settlements in the occupied territories, impact of occupation, settler violence, blockade by Israel, restrictions on movement and ongoing security concerns. Current effort is advancing the Palestinian cause and achieving a just and lasting resolution to the conflict."
The second sentence is not in proper engligh. The third sentence is both subjective and flat out wrong. Personally I would change it to 'unsuccessful efforts have been made to solve the conflict' then bang on a source. Firestar47 ( talk) 08:29, 11 May 2024 (UTC)
Under the "History" section, there is a sentence which does not appear to make much sense. It reads:
" Abdul Hamid, the last Khalifa of the world, oppose Zionist movement, but failed." My problems with this sentence are twofold: Firstly, it is not grammatically correct, as it should read "Abdul Hamid, the last Khalifa of the world, opposed Zionist movement, but failed." Secondly, it does not convey much encyclopedic information. How did he "oppose Zionist movement"? This is not elaborated upon in the text to my knowledge. Why does the article refer to Abdul Hamid as "the last Khalifa of the world"? This title is not used in Hamid's main article, and it appears to be invented by whoever wrote it.
Can this sentence be excised or altered to be more encyclopedic? Thanks. JohnR1Roberts ( talk) 14:09, 13 May 2024 (UTC)
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Please change the first sentence from: "Palestine (Arabic: فلسطين, romanized: Filasṭīn), officially the State of Palestine (دولة فلسطين, Dawlat Filasṭīn), is a country in the southern Levant region of West Asia."
"To:
"Palestine (Arabic: فلسطين, romanized: Filasṭīn), officially the State of Palestine (دولة فلسطين, Dawlat Filasṭīn), is a territory in the southern Levant region of West Asia."
This change aims to reflect a more neutral stance by describing Palestine as a territory, acknowledging the disputed nature of its status.
Sources:
United Nations General Assembly Resolution A/RES/67/19U.S.
Department of State - Country Profiles
European Union - External Action Service, "EU Relations with Palestine" ヘンドリックス ( talk) 20:10, 21 May 2024 (UTC)
Not done. Has been discussed more than once. The clue is in the name "State of... Selfstudier ( talk) 21:09, 21 May 2024 (UTC)
Mistake: “The region of Palestine has played an important part in world history… Judaism traces its origins back to historic Palestine during biblical times.”
Correction: “The region historically known today as Palestine has played an important part in world history. In ancient times, this area was known by various names depending on the ruling empire, including Canaan, Israel, Judah, and later Judea. The term ‘Palestine’ itself was more broadly applied by the Greeks and Romans.” 2603:9008:1607:E4FD:6848:D6C:3FC0:6598 ( talk) 13:09, 26 May 2024 (UTC)
In Early History, the sentence “The Israelites, Abraham's descendants, settled in Canaan, which later became known as Palestine.” is misleading because there are thousands of years between Canaan and the use of the term “Palestine”.
A more correct option for a rewrite would be The Israelites, Abraham's descendants, settled in Canaan, which eventually became known as Palestine and Israel.
The citation has nothing to do with any of this and must be removed. Citation 28 links to an illustrated children’s version of the Mormon re-telling of the Hebrew Bible. This is an inappropriate link because the Mormon religion is never mentioned in the article, and because the term “Palestine” never appears in the linked page. Instead, the linked source claims that the land of Canaan came to be known as the land of Israel or the land of Judah. 2601:80:8600:EFA0:897D:F00F:62A0:7682 ( talk) 17:32, 26 May 2024 (UTC)
References 45 and 46 are identical 2601:80:8600:EFA0:C5B7:ECFB:7F54:4012 ( talk) 19:39, 27 May 2024 (UTC)
Many paragraphs in this article share the same error, I can go through paragraph by paragraph and reference by reference if needed, but in general: if a paragraph is 5 sentences long and only cites one source, there is no reason to have 5 identical inline citations in that paragraph. Just one at the end of the paragraph is sufficient and is the way to adhere to Wikipedia’s guidelines on clutter. 174.247.80.205 ( talk) 20:58, 26 May 2024 (UTC)
Specifics, please. Selfstudier ( talk) 21:59, 26 May 2024 (UTC)
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 15 | ← | Archive 17 | Archive 18 | Archive 19 | Archive 20 |
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Should the lead sentence say that the State of Palestine is "a state"? – St.nerol ( talk) 07:26, 12 October 2023 (UTC)
I apologize for not starting the RfC in a proper way; it's clear that I should have asked a more experienced editor. As for my intentions, they could hopefully be clarified by reading the short preceding discussion. Contrary to @ Selfstudier, I have made no assertion about the statehood of Palestine. I have pointed to a lack of consensus in the reliable sources. – St.nerol ( talk) 21:05, 12 October 2023 (UTC)
has been blockaded Israel --> has been blockaded by Israel — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2001:1C01:4E03:CD00:D9F2:E8F2:B:E9E3 ( talk) 02:08, 13 October 2023 (UTC)
A number of acronyms are used without a previous reference. Specifically PLO and PNA in the third paragraph. It would help greatly to have them link to their articles. Xitit ( talk) 16:24, 15 October 2023 (UTC)
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Incorrect Statement Quoted: "Officially governed by the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO), it claims the West Bank (including East Jerusalem) and the Gaza Strip as its territory, though the entirety of that territory has been under Israeli occupation since the 1967 Six-Day War.[5][18]"
Incorrect statement that the Palestinian Territories (West Bank and Gaza) have been under Israeli occupation since 1948. Gaza has been under full autonomy and under self control since 2005. The PA took it back in 2005 and Hamas took over full governance and control in 2007.
Evidence:
Wikipedia page: /info/en/?search=Israeli_disengagement_from_Gaza
Please change:
...it claims the West Bank (including East Jerusalem) and the Gaza Strip as its territory, though the entirety of that territory has been under Israeli occupation since the 1967 Six-Day War.
To the following:
...it claims the West Bank (including East Jerusalem) and the Gaza Strip as its territory, though with respect to Gaza, it has been under self governed autonomy by the P.A. from 2005-2007 and by Hamas from 2007 to the present day. Newart61 ( talk) 17:20, 23 October 2023 (UTC)
The last RFC is here, it says
"The community agrees that Palestine is a state. There is substantial and well-argued support that says we should add certain qualifiers such as "sovereign" or "de jure" in front of the word "state", but this falls short of an actual consensus to add these words. There is also no consensus to remove the disputed words. So the question is what to do without a consensus....... I believe it's right to remove the disputed phrases and I will do that with my next edit."
There are other discussions still on this talk page (two of them) and multiple others in the archives, there is no consensus to qualify the word state.
Bringing out of date or a limited number of sources are no justification for editing against consensus, a new RFC will be required to do that. Selfstudier ( talk) 17:42, 15 October 2023 (UTC)
what I think is neededis not the issue, there is a consensus that Palestine is a state. Selfstudier ( talk) 22:15, 18 October 2023 (UTC)
In the infobox, it states that “all of the territory is occupied by Israel.” However the argument is that area A and most notably Gaza do not fall under actual military occupation. However, Israel controls significant aspects of these territories, including Gaza. Would it be more correct to say “all controlled by Israel” as opposed to “occupied?” The Great Mule of Eupatoria ( talk) 11:33, 27 October 2023 (UTC)
See https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/international-and-comparative-law-quarterly/article/abs/status-of-gaza-as-occupied-territory-under-international-law/654DB8FE844ED96C47AAA3B213D438F0 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Selfstudier ( talk • contribs) 11:37, 27 October 2023 (UTC)
“The state claims the West Bank (including East Jerusalem) and the Gaza Strip as its territory, though the entirety of that territory has been under Israeli occupation since 1967.”
There are no Israelis occupying either of these areas. Israel vacated Gaza and handed it over to the PA in 2005. Hamas subsequently took control, suspended elections in Gaza 17 years ago, and destroyed the groundwater with malfunctioning wastewater treatment making them dependent on Israel. An Aljazeera reference? Really???
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/gaza-strip-controls-s-know-rcna119405 24.113.96.238 ( talk) 20:08, 17 October 2023 (UTC)
"Although the concept of the Palestine region and its geographical extent has varied throughout history, it is now considered to be composed by the modern State of Israel, the West Bank and the Gaza Strip."
- Rubin, 1999, The World Encyclopedia of Contemporary Theatre: The Arab World, p. 186, at Google Books
A book on contemporary theatre is not an appropriate source to define geopolitical boundaries, nor is the editor of the book qualified to discern the veracity of that statement. Spork2367 ( talk) 19:41, 13 November 2023 (UTC)
The PLO has not been the government or leaders of Palestine since 2006, when Hamas was put into power and has been ever since. 63.155.55.204 ( talk) 07:01, 19 November 2023 (UTC)
Is there any scholarly consensus as to whether SoP actually qualifies as a state? The most recent academic treatise I could find weighing the issue concludes that "It is a subject of controversy as to whether the State of Palestine [can] be considered a State in accordance with classical international law definitions." [1] Another somewhat recent book from OUP summarizes that "while Palestine enjoys some of the attributes of statehood, primarily international recognition, it would be wrong to classify Palestine as a state". [2] In light of this it seems untenable to have the first sentence of our article simply assert statehood. – St.nerol ( talk) 08:12, 9 October 2023 (UTC)
Let me suggest two possible solutions:
– St.nerol ( talk) 13:01, 11 October 2023 (UTC)
Read the well cited https://iccforum.com/media/background/gaza/2009-05-19_Quigley_Memo_on_Palestine_Declaration.pdf written before the UN upgrade to observer state at the UN and the subsequent detailed review of the question as part of the decision to allow an ICC investigation, overruling US, Israel and some others arguing that that the ICC does not possess territorial jurisdiction because Palestine cannot be considered a state. Selfstudier ( talk) 14:43, 13 October 2023 (UTC)
References
Why is Palestine, an observer to the United Nations (UN) recognized by 138 other UN member states, referred to as a "partially recognized state with a "status" parameter on its infobox over its recognition, while Taiwan, which has no representation to the UN and is recognized by 12 other UN member states, is referred to as a "country" with no "status" parameter present on its infobox over its recognition? Why the inconsistency? 175.198.165.9 ( talk) 10:02, 13 October 2023 (UTC)
signficant biasGet used to it. It's a state, that will do ftb. Selfstudier ( talk) 19:07, 2 December 2023 (UTC)
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106.71.7.135 ( talk) 03:31, 9 March 2024 (UTC)
Instead of state of Palestine, it is Country
Someone remove the edit by DavidRoth. It contains personal political views, is not backed up by any sources, and labels people as terrorists. This is vandalism and is not welcome here. XenonDelta ( talk) 22:09, 27 November 2023 (UTC)
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The “all claimed territory is occupied by Israel” isn’t correct. 49.3.77.247 ( talk) 01:40, 11 December 2023 (UTC)
Why doesn't it say "palestine is a country", it says "Israel is a country" on "israel".
Alexander Shipfield (
talk)
01:16, 12 March 2024 (UTC)
WP:ARBECR, non ECR editors may only make edit requests
::Please comment your thoughts. This is my first post here as I enjoy writing and editing for various projects and have discovered this community just recently.
Blackhawk Crewchief (
talk)
13:42, 22 March 2024 (UTC)
WP:ARBECR
Best not to respond to non ECR editors, who may only make edit requests per WP:ARBECR (can also just remove, citing same policy, since there are replies, I have just struck the comment). Selfstudier ( talk) 13:57, 22 March 2024 (UTC) Going to archive this since it is going nowhere and only new comment is an ARBECR vio, Selfstudier ( talk) 13:57, 22 March 2024 (UTC)
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. In the Etymology section, change "General use of the term 'Palestine' or related terms to the area at the southeast corner..." to "General use of the term 'Palestine' or related terms to an area at the southeast corner..."
The definite article suggests a wider meaning that originally given to the term, which gained terrritory only during the Roman Empirial period. 24.193.29.184 ( talk) 05:01, 11 December 2023 (UTC)
"The definite article suggests a wider meaning that originally given to the term, which gained territory only during the Roman Empirial periodNot sure what the issue is here, what is the difference, in terms of geography, between "the" and "an" in this context? Is there an explanatory source? Selfstudier ( talk) 12:45, 11 December 2023 (UTC)
the history should be corrected to include Canaan, Palestine dating back to when Jesus was born. The histt starting in 1947 is soo deliberately misleading.. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:410:8181:5200:152a:9edf:ac2e:7111 ( talk) 11:36, 25 December 2023 (UTC)
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Please link the
United Nations in the second sentence of the article (in the lead). The result (just not in green) would be: It is officially recognized as a state by the
United Nations and numerous countries.
DirtySocks357(WreckItRalph) (
talk)
03:01, 9 April 2024 (UTC)
'''[[
User:CanonNi]]'''
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In the 4th paragraph of the article (the lead), please remove the following sentence: The state strives to build and strengthen its institutions, promote economic development, and improve the well-being of its citizens.
The reason is: Per common sense, just about every state/country has this aim, Palestine is not an exclusive to this. The sentence has a tone of Palestinian support, kind of.
DirtySocks357(WreckItRalph) (
talk)
13:43, 9 April 2024 (UTC)
Done. The sentence has a tone of Palestinian support, kind of
Unsourced commentary is not required for an edit request.
Selfstudier (
talk)
13:51, 9 April 2024 (UTC)
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2001:4DF7:2:CAD4:1CF6:9220:3E6D:D538 ( talk) 13:07, 13 April 2024 (UTC)
I dont see you mantioned about hamas and terror organization by this flag
'''[[
User:CanonNi]]'''
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English translation of the name of the Palestinian Anthem is stated in Wikipedia as “Fedayeen Warrior”. However, after listening to the anthem and reading the lyrics it is important what context the word is used in, as it results in significantly different meaning. In the context of the anthem, “fida’i” is composed of “fida”, meaning “sacrifice” and the personal possessive suffix “-i”. Therefore an accurate translation of the name of the Palestinian National Anthem is “My Sacrifice”. I implore the moderators make the change and correct the mistake as the translation listed in the page are simply inaccurate and may lead to gross misunderstandings on what Palestine is and what its anthem is meant to evoke. 188.71.226.199 ( talk) 10:35, 27 December 2023 (UTC)
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- "Invaded by arabs", might be useful to mention that before that happened 250,000 Palestinians were already expelled with notable massacres like Deir Yassan. The phrasing is slanted and doesn't represent the Palestinian side, which is best put as the word "Nakba".
- Rearrange to mention oslo earlier, as it is most relevant to the make-up of Palestine
- I think saying "hamas seized power" is fine, but you should mention the attempted coup that their seizure was in response to. There's just a trend of only showing Israeli side of events and omitting key events.
-Hamas should never be mentioned before oslo as well, otherwise this article is just in service of "news" rather than historical continuity Mohammed Al-Keesh ( talk) 02:47, 16 January 2024 (UTC)
Not done, edit request(s) must be of the form "please change X to Y". ("Invaded by arabs" is not in the article for example). Selfstudier ( talk) 13:09, 16 January 2024 (UTC)
@ Dovidroth has reverted my changes. I suggest we undo the revert.
It might be worth noting that Dovidroth has been banned from the Palestine/Israel Conflict topic for 90 days: /info/en/?search=User_talk:Dovidroth#Notice_that_you_are_now_subject_to_an_arbitration_enforcement_sanction
My changes can be summarized as:
I suggest we reincorporate my changes. DMH43 ( talk) 20:58, 2 January 2024 (UTC)
References
p.66, at 1946 "The League demanded independence for Palestine as a "unitary" state, with an Arab majority and minority rights for the Jews." ; p.67, at 1947 "The League's Political Committee met in Sofar, Lebanon, on 16–19 September, and urged the Palestine Arabs to fight partition, which it called "aggression", "without mercy". The League promised them, in line with Bludan, assistance "in manpower, money and equipment" should the United Nations endorse partition." ; p. 72, at December 1947 "The League vowed, in very general language, "to try to stymie the partition plan and prevent the establishment of a Jewish state in Palestine
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I want to edit this one because I want to change it to the Palestinian one. It would improve better if I did it AnnoyinAyman ( talk) 07:13, 10 March 2024 (UTC)
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The last part of the beginning of the page (the text which says "the Palestinian government collapsed") links to Palestinian National Authority, specifically to the part "#2024_government_collapse". Although due to a recent edit, that part of the page no longer exists, since it has been renamed. It should now link to the "#2024_mass_resignation" part. SewSown ( talk) 23:29, 10 March 2024 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: not moved. – robertsky ( talk) 14:04, 12 March 2024 (UTC)
State of Palestine → Palestine (state) – The vast majority of country titles aren't named like "State of X" but rather just "X". In Palestine's case, it should also have the parenthetical "(state)" to disambiguate with Palestine (region). JDiala ( talk) 16:08, 5 March 2024 (UTC)
Just want to make sure that there is awareness of the existence of two Wikipedia articles that seem to refer to the same entity. Each says they are different than the other, yet shows the same national flag and coat of arms. Geographically, one consists of the West Bank and Gaza, whereas the other is only the West Bank. FeralOink ( talk) 17:54, 23 March 2024 (UTC)
Why does the opening sentence call Palestine a country? It's only recognized as such by 139 of the 193 UN member states. The sentence was correct for decades. Why has it now been edited incorrectly? Please undo Joséthewikier's revision. His edit description strikes me as quite goofy and biased as well, comparing Palestine to much more widely-recognized countries. Palestine is a partially recognized state in the Middle East, not a country. /info/en/?search=International_recognition_of_the_State_of_Palestine Uchiha Itachi 25 ( talk) 12:16, 25 March 2024 (UTC)
The most recent discussion, this comes up every so often, the consensus is for "state" I think, if not it should be, as that is the most common usage. Selfstudier ( talk) 12:35, 25 March 2024 (UTC)
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Palestine is bordered by Israel to the north and west, not to the north and east as stated. ASpoor ( talk) 10:19, 11 April 2024 (UTC)
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I've found a misspelling in the section "Oil and gas": beleived -> believed AX29 ( talk) 19:05, 18 April 2024 (UTC)
I've found a typo in the section "Roman Empire". In the second paragraph and third sentence, he -> The PokemasterRav ( talk) 11:34, 21 April 2024 (UTC)
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In the very last sentence of the lead (paragraph 4), please revise the following sentence from: It is one of the most educated countries the Arab world and the Middle East and hold massive reserves of oil and gas.
to: It is one of the most educated countries in the Arab world and the Middle East, with massive reserves of oil and gas.
…or at least something similar, thanks!
DS537(WIR)
14:13, 22 April 2024 (UTC)
In
this edit from earlier this month and others, @
Kharbaan Ghaltaan rewrote (without edit summary) much of the lead, introducing imprecise/unencyclopedic
purple prose like Palestine's ancient history spans thousands of years, with its crossroads location witnessing the rise and fall of empires, shaping world history
and removing some of the language that discussed Palestine's limited recognition/control over its territory. It appears that this article is surprisingly poorly monitored and that many of the deleterious contributions have not been reverted or fixed up. Could some more experienced editors review the edit history and make changes as needed?
Sdkb
talk
18:22, 22 April 2024 (UTC)
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There may be some redundancy in the first paragraph of the lead of the article. The lead currently mentions that Jerusalem is the proclaimed capital twice with only one sentence in between. This feels redundant, and, if others agree, someone should remove either the first mention or the second mention (I suggest the first, because the sentence where the second one is mentioned is more related to geography, however, I don't particularly mind). Thank you in advance, and have a nice day! 90.139.2.187 ( talk) 18:59, 29 April 2024 (UTC)
Done. Selfstudier ( talk) 19:04, 29 April 2024 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: not moved. ( closed by non-admin page mover) Vpab15 ( talk) 21:37, 29 April 2024 (UTC)
– Per WP:COMMONNAME and the upcoming UNSC vote on Friday to have Palestine upgraded as a UN member, I suggest this article be renamed to simply "Palestine" like all other country articles in this Wikipedia. It doesn't make sense to use Ireland as the Republic of Ireland or the Republic of China as two articles with one on the mainland and the other on Taiwan. Even the Google Trends uses Palestine more than the State of Palestine itself. Kindly keep this debate civil. Silence of Lambs ( talk) 00:03, 18 April 2024 (UTC)
[Please note that this comment is unrelated to the violence and conflict re Israel and Gaza that is happening now.] Under the heading "Early Religious"(sic) is a sentence beginning: "Jesus performed miracles, ..." referenced to item 39. I am upset that Wikipedia did not correct this statement, which was published as factual. "Jesus performed miracles, ..." is not factual, it is an item of traditional Christian doctrine. Rularue ( talk) 01:33, 30 April 2024 (UTC)
Trinidad and Tobago recognized the State of Palestine on 2 May 2024.
The number of UN members that recognize the State of Palestine needs to be updated to 141. Surfacedextrous ( talk) 06:16, 5 May 2024 (UTC)
In the lead, it says "It is officially recognized as a state by the United Nations and numerous countries." I understand this last bit is imprecise, as "numerous" may mean 20 or 30, while the real number is significant: 140 of 193 UN members, meaning 72.5%; for that, I would suggest correcting the bit "and numerous countries" to "and by the vast majority of the world's countries". 2A02:14F:177:44BB:A5D4:927E:38DF:5A18 ( talk) 12:03, 30 April 2024 (UTC)
2011 vote is actually considered a de facto (not de jure) recognition. This might have been the case for some Western European or American countries, I don't know. Much of the remaining world has been having diplomatic relations with Palestine for a decade or two, with Palestnian embassies operating in many of the world's capitals and Palestinian ambassadors being normal members of the diplomatic corps. — kashmīrī TALK 13:29, 7 May 2024 (UTC)
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In the first one or two paragraphs there is a grammatical error, with the article saying “it have a combined area” instead of “it has”, the latter being correct. MrGamerMooseBTW ( talk) 12:54, 10 May 2024 (UTC)
"The Palestinian Authority governs parts of the West Bank while Hamas controls the Gaza Strip. Currently the country is challenging from expansion of Israeli settlements in the occupied territories, impact of occupation, settler violence, blockade by Israel, restrictions on movement and ongoing security concerns. Current effort is advancing the Palestinian cause and achieving a just and lasting resolution to the conflict."
The second sentence is not in proper engligh. The third sentence is both subjective and flat out wrong. Personally I would change it to 'unsuccessful efforts have been made to solve the conflict' then bang on a source. Firestar47 ( talk) 08:29, 11 May 2024 (UTC)
Under the "History" section, there is a sentence which does not appear to make much sense. It reads:
" Abdul Hamid, the last Khalifa of the world, oppose Zionist movement, but failed." My problems with this sentence are twofold: Firstly, it is not grammatically correct, as it should read "Abdul Hamid, the last Khalifa of the world, opposed Zionist movement, but failed." Secondly, it does not convey much encyclopedic information. How did he "oppose Zionist movement"? This is not elaborated upon in the text to my knowledge. Why does the article refer to Abdul Hamid as "the last Khalifa of the world"? This title is not used in Hamid's main article, and it appears to be invented by whoever wrote it.
Can this sentence be excised or altered to be more encyclopedic? Thanks. JohnR1Roberts ( talk) 14:09, 13 May 2024 (UTC)
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Please change the first sentence from: "Palestine (Arabic: فلسطين, romanized: Filasṭīn), officially the State of Palestine (دولة فلسطين, Dawlat Filasṭīn), is a country in the southern Levant region of West Asia."
"To:
"Palestine (Arabic: فلسطين, romanized: Filasṭīn), officially the State of Palestine (دولة فلسطين, Dawlat Filasṭīn), is a territory in the southern Levant region of West Asia."
This change aims to reflect a more neutral stance by describing Palestine as a territory, acknowledging the disputed nature of its status.
Sources:
United Nations General Assembly Resolution A/RES/67/19U.S.
Department of State - Country Profiles
European Union - External Action Service, "EU Relations with Palestine" ヘンドリックス ( talk) 20:10, 21 May 2024 (UTC)
Not done. Has been discussed more than once. The clue is in the name "State of... Selfstudier ( talk) 21:09, 21 May 2024 (UTC)
Mistake: “The region of Palestine has played an important part in world history… Judaism traces its origins back to historic Palestine during biblical times.”
Correction: “The region historically known today as Palestine has played an important part in world history. In ancient times, this area was known by various names depending on the ruling empire, including Canaan, Israel, Judah, and later Judea. The term ‘Palestine’ itself was more broadly applied by the Greeks and Romans.” 2603:9008:1607:E4FD:6848:D6C:3FC0:6598 ( talk) 13:09, 26 May 2024 (UTC)
In Early History, the sentence “The Israelites, Abraham's descendants, settled in Canaan, which later became known as Palestine.” is misleading because there are thousands of years between Canaan and the use of the term “Palestine”.
A more correct option for a rewrite would be The Israelites, Abraham's descendants, settled in Canaan, which eventually became known as Palestine and Israel.
The citation has nothing to do with any of this and must be removed. Citation 28 links to an illustrated children’s version of the Mormon re-telling of the Hebrew Bible. This is an inappropriate link because the Mormon religion is never mentioned in the article, and because the term “Palestine” never appears in the linked page. Instead, the linked source claims that the land of Canaan came to be known as the land of Israel or the land of Judah. 2601:80:8600:EFA0:897D:F00F:62A0:7682 ( talk) 17:32, 26 May 2024 (UTC)
References 45 and 46 are identical 2601:80:8600:EFA0:C5B7:ECFB:7F54:4012 ( talk) 19:39, 27 May 2024 (UTC)
Many paragraphs in this article share the same error, I can go through paragraph by paragraph and reference by reference if needed, but in general: if a paragraph is 5 sentences long and only cites one source, there is no reason to have 5 identical inline citations in that paragraph. Just one at the end of the paragraph is sufficient and is the way to adhere to Wikipedia’s guidelines on clutter. 174.247.80.205 ( talk) 20:58, 26 May 2024 (UTC)
Specifics, please. Selfstudier ( talk) 21:59, 26 May 2024 (UTC)