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Italic textshirley rules and i think thats "what Brittany rocks.." Shirley Temple said!everyone says. shes the best child star in the world she showed that kids can act so that probaly took alot of time.So thank you shirley.Shirley Temple should be honored as the the most famous child star of all time, not just the 1930s... She also carries one of the most famous, familiar names on Earth. Simply stating her to be the most famous child star of the 1930s is a serious understatement. It should be changed immediately.
I read somewhere that Shirley Temple had a fetish for surgery. Does anyone have any proof of this?
Here is a Shirley site you might like to look at: Shirley Temple: Little Star http://littlestar.bravepages.com
Why don't we have a picture of her as a child, if that is how she is remembered?
Anyone want to mention how SNL and the Simpsons both made fun of her?
What about the mixed nonalcoholic drink named after her? -- Onlyemarie 22:21, 1 Apr 2005 (UTC)
It says she is currently dating OJ simpson???? Can someone delete?? That is super stupid whoever wrote that about her and OJ simpson.
The list of movies is huge. Let's pare it down to something representative. There has to be ten that are the most famous. The rest are red (no page), just getting in the way, and there are plently of other web sites with the full filmography, including IMDB. I will wait two days for objections.
On second thought: I am doing it now. There are twelve movies that are blue (they have pages). The rest go.
Now, THAT is what I call judgment! Look at that photo they use as NNDB! It is NOT the little girl. It the later teenager! See how they subtly acknowledge that the woman had a life after she got married? Great call! I congratulate them.
For IMDB to have the photo of the little girl works also, because IMDB is only about her movies. That works also.
You walk down the street and hit someone with the name "Shirley Temple". We already know the reaction, or the "vote" if you will, is going to be. Why bother even asking? The biographer is suppose to look beyond that.
Now, there are lessons in this little episode. Do we go and apply them to Stepin Fetchit or do we not? Antaeus? What do you think? Quill? Raul? Noitall? (You must have some more to say). And, of course, Mr. Kaufman? Come on, wake up! Wake up! What will it be? Amorrow 17:45, 5 August 2005 (UTC)
I find that one of the things that makes Wikipedia is that the references can be so brief. Unless there is a special relationship between this page and the page point to, you need only minimal explanation. The reader can just drill down if they want extra details. The reference is otherwise fine, but in other cases I run into, I see sometimes that writers try to insinuate something about the thing referred to because they do not have the guts to put it on the other page and to then duke it out with the people who have that other page on their watchlists. It is not that the minimal reference completely solves that problem, but it helps to avoid it. That is why I made the reference to the drink minimal, but the expanded reference is fine as it is now.
In an earlier version (which, BTW, I know I make too many of), I took out the "most famous" thing out becuase I thought I read that you are supposed to avoid that kind of thing. No biggie. I will conceed the point because, I think that most people wold agree and again, it is fine point of style in this case.
And Antaeus, thanks for cleaning up the extra word "image" in the Stepin Fetchit page. That certainly improved on how I had left it. Amorrow 16:19, 6 August 2005 (UTC)
Now look at how I did the reference to the breast cancer thing. I could have just come out and written she had breast cancer. What did I do instead? I made a reference to her being on the cover of People magazine again later that year with some other very fine women. That is what a lady would want. It is elegant. It is honorific. It gives additional information in a compact form and tells the reader how to get even MORE information, if they wish. It is completely legitimate technique, without NPOV problems, and yet it still allows the author to demonstrate his good breeding and do Mrs. Black a tiny, little favor. The nice gesture is simply "tastefully done". Amorrow 16:00, 6 August 2005 (UTC)
I see that Amorrow is proud of how Black's breast cancer is handled in the article, but I strongly disagree. First, the implication is that there is something "untasteful" about getting breast cancer, which is simply not true. Second, it suggests that Black herself is somehow embarrassed about it, or has tried to downplay it, when the opposite is the fact - and it is an important fact. Arguably Black's courage and grace in coming out publicly with her breast cancer in the early 70s was more important, and probably saved more lives, than her work has a child star during the depression. But most importantly, this is an encyclopedia, and the primary criteria must be the clear presentation of accurate and relevant information. The previous manner of handling the "breast cancer thing" was far too ambiguous and indirect. I have made a first stab at a clear description of Black and breast cancer, but of course welcome any help in improving it. Gogh 23:38, 29 July 2007 (UTC)
I called my local KR newsdesk and they confirmed Mr. Black's death. Knight Ridder Community Newspapers Inc. (650) 327-9090 http://www.paloaltodailynews.com/
Kaufman: I am going to let your deletion about the religious stuff stand, but the situation is complicated. Now I know that Mr. Black was a Ivy-league educated junior executive. I gotta do some more reading about this. I mentioned the explaination about the religious stuff because I anticipated that the reader would assume that there was something wrong because of his not seeing any of ST's films. The guy just passed away and hopefully some decent info will come out in some obits that will allow us to write a page on him. The whole way that Andrea Dworkin's death was handled at Wikipedia was so messy. Let's try to do this one more nicely. We need that ten-word summary of what he was: marine research entrepaneur is close, but we need better.
BTW: My citation on the religious stuff (I assume it is true):
http://www.adherents.com/people/pt/Shirley_Temple.html
"Later Shirley Temple met Charlie Black, a man who had been raised in a boarding school with extremely restrictive practices limiting exposure to films and even radio. Charlie was completely unaware of her fame and had never seen any of her movies."
As far as I am concerned, this is journlistic standards applied to an on-line encyclopedia. Together, we will figure out the right thing to do. Amorrow 05:35, 7 August 2005 (UTC)
Yes, I de-wikified the Bobby-Soxer link. I want the page to be nice and complete if people look at it next week because of Mr. Black's passing. The red link bothers me. Can anyone put out a quick review of that film? I have already done something (not very good yet) for her first husband. Amorrow 05:42, 7 August 2005 (UTC)
I changed the intro. The long list of movie is uninteresting. IMDb has that. Why did I do it. It was practically an involutary act.
1. I listen to KQED in San Francisco. Every Sunday, they have City Arts & Lectures. http://www.cityarts.net/ Every Sunday, I hear Linda Hunt say: Great artists ... blah blah blah .. "often discussing the creating process." THAT is what people want to know. THAT is what Mrs. Black wants people to know. How did she DO THAT? How the heck did get get all those movies made??? She has a great memory and she has talent.
2. I sat through "The Little Princess" with my daughter at least a half dozen time, and I loved it because I got to spend time with her and she liked it. At the end of the video, they summarize Temple's work style. She could memorize entire scripts. Steel trap memory. She could learn all the dance steps (citation: "Codfish Ball"). She could cry on cue, but the rest time... if was as if she was on happy pills all the time.
That is why I made the changes. In light of the recent events, it also reads well.
Now, I feel that I have described part of MY creative process.
Since people have a "thing" about all those links, I am going to start a new practice here at Wikipedia. I will cite my sources (shock, shock).
OK, some of the source suck on the page, like that last Reagan link: That massive document for just one line. But some of those things are better cites about STB than Wikipedia will EVER be. I was just trying to dredge up some info on Mr. Black. I heard that there was an obit in
Now I guesss I will have to scrounge for a copy of the rag (it is actually a nice paper, I just like rough humor a lot).
I am sure that we all enjoy the obvious insinuation that STB drinks a lot of ST cocktails of all varieties. I am laughing at the newly-widowed person, boys. Ya happy now? Amorrow 00:57, 8 August 2005 (UTC)
The Palo Alto Daily News (the Friday edition, i.e. the August 5, 2005 edition FYI) says this:
Shirley Temple's spouse, C. Black, dead at 86
Charles Black, a businessman, maritime expert, and the husband of former child star Shirley Temple Black, died yesterday of complication of a bone marrow disease, his wife said. He was 86.
Black died at his home in the San Francisco suburb of Woodside, with his wife off 55 years and other family members by his side. He had suffered from the bone disorder myelodysplastic syndrome for nearly three years.
The couple met in 1950 in Honolulu where Black had been working for a shipping company. They married that same year. "He was an intensley interesting and fascinating man to me," Mrs. Black, a former U.S. ambassador to Ghana, said by phone from her home yesterday night. "I fell in love with him at first sight. It sounds corny, but that's what happened. But I don't think he did with me."
Mrs. Black, 77, was 22, when she and her husband met.
After moving to California, Black started a fishing and hatchery company and worked as a consultant on maritime issues. He served on a U.S. Commerce Department advisory committee as well as various National Research Council panels. He also co-founded a Massachusetts-based company that developed unmanned deep ocean search and survey imaging systems.
Born in 1919, Black earned a master's degree in business from Stanford University and served as a naval intelligence officer in the Pacific theater during World War II, earning the Silver Star and other honors. He also served as a regent for Santa Clara University and helped established a charity that helps youth.
A Shirley Temple-style dress appeared in an episode of Teen Titans. Raven's cloak was transformed into the dress by Mother Mae-Eye. -- User:Angie Y.
From the second paragraph of the Film career section: "Many of these films are dated and would be considered offensive now." Why? -- Fritz S. ( Talk) 17:59, 27 December 2005 (UTC)
A section on racism in Shirley Temple's films is clearly not out of place - indeed, the absence of such a section is a serious flaw in the article, given how much this topic has been discussed both in film and in sociological studies. I agree that the comment that "many of these films are dated and would be considered offensive now" does refer to the early films putting children in adult roles and situations, but there has been ample criticism of racist stereotypes and images in her films. Note that simply recognizing this is not the same as accepting the claim that her films were racist - and, particularly given her age, says nothing about Temple's responsibility for it if it is racism. But to ignore this topic undermines the credibility of the entire article. I have added such a section and given two references, that specifically argue that three of her films contain racist images. This is just a begining however, and I welcome and invite other editors to add to and improve it. Gogh 06:52, 29 July 2007 (UTC)
SEWilco made a helpful change in the text - though I note that I never claimed that the word "infused" was part of Gibron's quote. I think a more complete discussion of racism in Temple's films might justify the use of the word "infuse", (and note here I do not mean that her films were infused with racism, but that the claim of most critics of her films is that they were infused with racism) but I agree that such an elaborate discussion is not appropriate to the current article, and so I agree with the revision. I made a small copy edit to SEWilco's revision to make it grammatically correct. Thanks for the help with this. I am going to look for a reference that lists the Temple films that have been identified by critics as racist - I currently note three in the article. If it is only three then it would be good to note that, as it is a small percentage of her total output. If it is more than three it would be appropriate to note that too Gogh 16:21, 29 July 2007 (UTC)
I have a thing about lists: I do not think that they belong in brilliant prose. A long list of wikilinked costars is information, but the value of all that detail is low. Just characterize her has have worked with "many of the most famous" stars and let it go at that. -- Pinktulip 11:29, 18 January 2006 (UTC)
Folks,
I cannot post the video clips of Shirley Temple below because my family owns evtv1.com and there is a :15 commercial in front of the clips. I have spoken with several long-time editors and they suggested I post the appropriate video clips on the article's talk pages for the editors to see if they wish to post them in external links.
All of these clips are 100% legal from a copyright status. You have to decide if the :15 commercial is too obtrusive or if the clips are worth the "pain" of the commercial. I leave it up to you. -Jaffer
Shirley Temple Dancing With Bojangles http://www.evtv1.com/index.asp-itemnum-226
Shirley Temple War Babies http://www.evtv1.com/index.asp-itemnum-223
Shirley Temple’s 6th Birthday http://www.evtv1.com/index.asp-itemnum-225
Unsigned post by User:Jaffer 19 Jan 2006
Mrs. Black has been trying for about five decades now to get beyond the little girl everyone else is in love with. Keep the post-film-career section about her non-film activities only. It is not like she sat around and watched TV or her own movies for five decades. -- Pinktulip 12:54, 21 January 2006 (UTC)
I added the bit about the colorized re-releases. ( Ibaranoff24 05:01, 19 March 2006 (UTC))
I am dubious of the honorary alumnae of Delta Theta Tau claim. I've done a google search for '"Shirley Temple" "Delta Theta Tau"' and come back with 2 wiki links, 1 greek101 link (where you can contribute your own information), 1 University of North Florida page of notable greeks, and a library link. And absolutely no google hits for shirley black "delta theta tau." It may be that it is an established fact but I cannot find it anywhere else other than those pages. I think if citation can't be provided then the information needs to be removed. Thanks. -- ImmortalGoddezz 05:03, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
I can believe that she didn't like any of the "Shirley Temple" variations because they were too sweet, but did she really say that one of the reasons she objected to "Shirley Temple" cocktails is because she doesn't get compensation for the use of her name? I would have thought that a celebrity who has gained such notoriety that he/she was honored with a namesake beverage would be a bit more gracious. - Grammaticus Repairo 02:56, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
I go to wikipedia for all of my history information. I went to look up Shirley Temple, my favorite childhood actress, and I didn't find much. I just thought I would leave this comment because I feel there is so much more information that you could have in your encyclopedia. Thank you for listening.
the dates of her husband's death in this page don't match up. Does anyone know for sure the day and the year? 24.19.12.229 07:19, 30 January 2007 (UTC)KP Adams
I think Shirley Temple is a really awesome actress and person.
According to Ancestry.com Shirley Temple's 15th great grandfather is Chaucer. Not sure how reliable this may be; should it be mentioned? Gavroche42 18:30, 25 May 2007 (UTC)
I have removed the Trivia section - which seems to be strongly encouraged by wikipedia. I tried to integrate as many of the significant items from this section into the main body of the article as I could. Anyone who contributed items that have been lost may want to try to integrate them into the body of the article as well. Gogh 00:45, 30 July 2007 (UTC)
I am not sure the heading labels and organization really hold together very well. I think it might be better to go for something like "early film career" "height of film career" and "later film career" or something like that. Right now heading names are taken from one item in the section that follows, but other items in the same section do not really relate. I have not changed this for now, but suggest that others give it some thought. Gogh 00:45, 30 July 2007 (UTC)
The link for "Poor Little Rich Girl" goes to the Andy Warhol movie -- quite a different story, I imagine. Pittsburgh Poet ( talk) 20:18, 17 November 2007 (UTC)
In the child star section, it says she worked for Educational Pictures starting at age 3. Later on, the article says she started working in 1928, the year of her birth! I don't know anything about her, so maybe the birth date is wrong, but one of those dates should be fixed. 69.177.232.182 ( talk) 05:43, 31 December 2007 (UTC)
iS SHiRLEy TEMPLE STiLL ALiVE BECAUSE i HAVE N0T HEARD ANyTHiNG ELSE ABOUT HER. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.91.51.77 ( talk) 01:17, 11 January 2008 (UTC)
Per debate and discussion re: assessment of the approximate 100 top priority articles of the project, this article has been included as a top priority article. Wildhartlivie ( talk) 00:50, 1 March 2008 (UTC)
In an article about America's most famous child star...there are no photos of her as a child! Surely (no pun intended) there are some avaliable for use? Morhange ( talk) 15:55, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
" ... is an Academy Award-winning actress and tap dancer ...".
This isn't quite accurate. The Oscar was awarded to her; she did not compete against other people in any competitive category, so I doubt we can say she "won" the award. Any ideas about alternative wording? -- JackofOz ( talk) 23:53, 16 August 2008 (UTC)
She was a Republican? Is she no longer a Republican? This is a somewhat abrupt and ambiguous statement.
The result of the proposal was no consensus to move the page, per the discussion below. Dekimasu よ! 15:17, 30 May 2009 (UTC)
Yes, this is her name, fellow editors. This is her name now and has been her name for many years since her wedding in 1950. So I would like to ask all the editors who are involved with improving this article, "Would you consider it an improvement to retitle this article with this great lady's present name?"
There are some good reasons to do this:
Regarding the fourth reason above, over the last several days I have sought remedies for this situation. There is a partial solution I received at the Wikipedia:Help Desk. I found that by changing a Category template to include her full name, like this...
...this did accomplish moving her name from the "T's" to the "B's" on the category page. However, due to the fact that the name that actually appears on the category page is fully governed by the PAGENAME (the name of the article where the category is installed), the name on the category page is still simply "Shirley Temple", even though it's been moved to the "B's".
This discussion listed at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Biography, Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Diplomacy, Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Actors and Filmmakers and Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Film Ed Fitzgerald t / c 18:23, 28 May 2009 (UTC)
I observe that this article uses a large number of sources. Sources primarily discussing what she did after 1950 are right to use her married name, but there are only two - one a news article.
As a wider view, Google books has 1860 entries which use "Shirley Temple"; only a third even mention Shirley Temple Black at all. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 15:24, 28 May 2009 (UTC)
The no consensus result, regarding the renaming of the Shirley Temple article to Shirley Temple Black, is acknowledged and accepted for the present. There is still a set of objective issues that remains...
If number three isn't really an issue, then I or any one of us can easily fix the other two issues. I would like to hear other opinions about number three, though, before these repairs are made. .`^) Paine Ellsworth diss`cuss (^`. 21:06, 30 May 2009 (UTC)
(out)I'm sorry, Paine, please get past this. The article is not going to be renamed, and certainly is not going to be moved for such a trivial reason as a minor category glitch. Now, I'm entire willing to assume good faith, but that doesn't preclude you explaining to everyone here what you mean by "for the present." If it means that you intend to keep pursuing this, please just stop right there: that would be disruptive, and could get you into trouble. The consensus here was clear, and overwhelming - please don't tilt at that windmill.
So, I've restored the cats to the redirect, which has a default sort of "Black, Shirley Temple" so they'll alphabatize correctly, and removed the duplicate cat from this article. It seems to me this puts the issue to rest, and we shouldn't need to discuss it any longer. Ed Fitzgerald t / c 01:21, 31 May 2009 (UTC)
I will say this, though, that by pressing that trivial issue in the manner that you are, you are almost certainly headed towards disruptive behavior. I'd take care, were I you. Ed Fitzgerald t / c 03:38, 31 May 2009 (UTC)
In the meantime, as a man married to two woman (at different times, of course) who retained their maiden names after marriage, I'm unimpressed by the gender card you're attempting to play. "Shirley Temple" may have been her "maiden" name, but it was also her professional name, at least until she changed professions, and her massive popularity as a performer (really, you should look into it sometime -- if anything, the article undersells her impact on the public in her heyday) versus her modest success as a politician/diplomat leaves no doubt whatsoever, except, apparently, in your mind, about which of her two names is more appropriate to adorn the article. Ed Fitzgerald t / c 06:58, 31 May 2009 (UTC)
(out) Just to let it be known, upon reflection I have decided to put my task to rename this article on the back burner for the time being. The main technical issue seems to be resolved to satisfaction. I do still consider that the article would be improved by being titled with Mrs. Black's full name; however, I shall keep an eye on this for awhile to see if perhaps another editor may bring up the issue independently. You have all been of tremendous help to me in my personal task to better-learn Wikipedia. Thank you very much! .`^) Paine Ellsworth diss`cuss (^`. 17:55, 31 May 2009 (UTC)
I would suggest that it may not be a good idea to move categories to the Shirley Temple Black redirect, despite the issue that results from having "Shirley Temple" alphabetized on category pages under "B". As it's one woman, not two, all the categories should be together. This is an area that our naming and categorization guidelines do not appear to address. I'd be surprised if it hasn't come up before, but I haven't yet found any precedent for what is done in these cases. Powers T 13:22, 31 May 2009 (UTC)
I think your difficulty can be adequately resolved by putting the categories in the article in the form: [[Category:Ambassadors to Ghana|Black, Shirley Temple]]; I may not have this quite right. This should make it unnecessary to have categories on the redirect page. Peterkingiron ( talk) 21:27, 31 May 2009 (UTC)
Somehow I missed this --> Wikipedia:Template messages/Redirect pages before, which reads:
It is also usually considered helpful to put redirects into the same categories as their targets, allowing the names of both the redirect and the target to appear in the category.
— [[WP:TMR]]
This seems to say that dual listings in categories for the same person is not only okay, it is "usually considered helpful". So if this is correct, then it should be okay to list all the categories on both the Shirley Temple page and the Shirley Temple Black Redirect page, don't you agree? And this makes me wonder why an admin reverted my edits back when I first copied all the cats to the STB Redirect page? I thought it was either because the name shows up in the categories in italics, or because both names show up in all the categories, or perhaps even because of both these reasons. However, now, since we find that neither reason is a big deal, then why did the admin revert my edits and rm the cats from the Redirect page? .`^) Paine Ellsworth diss`cuss (^`. 17:34, 20 June 2009 (UTC)
This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Italic textshirley rules and i think thats "what Brittany rocks.." Shirley Temple said!everyone says. shes the best child star in the world she showed that kids can act so that probaly took alot of time.So thank you shirley.Shirley Temple should be honored as the the most famous child star of all time, not just the 1930s... She also carries one of the most famous, familiar names on Earth. Simply stating her to be the most famous child star of the 1930s is a serious understatement. It should be changed immediately.
I read somewhere that Shirley Temple had a fetish for surgery. Does anyone have any proof of this?
Here is a Shirley site you might like to look at: Shirley Temple: Little Star http://littlestar.bravepages.com
Why don't we have a picture of her as a child, if that is how she is remembered?
Anyone want to mention how SNL and the Simpsons both made fun of her?
What about the mixed nonalcoholic drink named after her? -- Onlyemarie 22:21, 1 Apr 2005 (UTC)
It says she is currently dating OJ simpson???? Can someone delete?? That is super stupid whoever wrote that about her and OJ simpson.
The list of movies is huge. Let's pare it down to something representative. There has to be ten that are the most famous. The rest are red (no page), just getting in the way, and there are plently of other web sites with the full filmography, including IMDB. I will wait two days for objections.
On second thought: I am doing it now. There are twelve movies that are blue (they have pages). The rest go.
Now, THAT is what I call judgment! Look at that photo they use as NNDB! It is NOT the little girl. It the later teenager! See how they subtly acknowledge that the woman had a life after she got married? Great call! I congratulate them.
For IMDB to have the photo of the little girl works also, because IMDB is only about her movies. That works also.
You walk down the street and hit someone with the name "Shirley Temple". We already know the reaction, or the "vote" if you will, is going to be. Why bother even asking? The biographer is suppose to look beyond that.
Now, there are lessons in this little episode. Do we go and apply them to Stepin Fetchit or do we not? Antaeus? What do you think? Quill? Raul? Noitall? (You must have some more to say). And, of course, Mr. Kaufman? Come on, wake up! Wake up! What will it be? Amorrow 17:45, 5 August 2005 (UTC)
I find that one of the things that makes Wikipedia is that the references can be so brief. Unless there is a special relationship between this page and the page point to, you need only minimal explanation. The reader can just drill down if they want extra details. The reference is otherwise fine, but in other cases I run into, I see sometimes that writers try to insinuate something about the thing referred to because they do not have the guts to put it on the other page and to then duke it out with the people who have that other page on their watchlists. It is not that the minimal reference completely solves that problem, but it helps to avoid it. That is why I made the reference to the drink minimal, but the expanded reference is fine as it is now.
In an earlier version (which, BTW, I know I make too many of), I took out the "most famous" thing out becuase I thought I read that you are supposed to avoid that kind of thing. No biggie. I will conceed the point because, I think that most people wold agree and again, it is fine point of style in this case.
And Antaeus, thanks for cleaning up the extra word "image" in the Stepin Fetchit page. That certainly improved on how I had left it. Amorrow 16:19, 6 August 2005 (UTC)
Now look at how I did the reference to the breast cancer thing. I could have just come out and written she had breast cancer. What did I do instead? I made a reference to her being on the cover of People magazine again later that year with some other very fine women. That is what a lady would want. It is elegant. It is honorific. It gives additional information in a compact form and tells the reader how to get even MORE information, if they wish. It is completely legitimate technique, without NPOV problems, and yet it still allows the author to demonstrate his good breeding and do Mrs. Black a tiny, little favor. The nice gesture is simply "tastefully done". Amorrow 16:00, 6 August 2005 (UTC)
I see that Amorrow is proud of how Black's breast cancer is handled in the article, but I strongly disagree. First, the implication is that there is something "untasteful" about getting breast cancer, which is simply not true. Second, it suggests that Black herself is somehow embarrassed about it, or has tried to downplay it, when the opposite is the fact - and it is an important fact. Arguably Black's courage and grace in coming out publicly with her breast cancer in the early 70s was more important, and probably saved more lives, than her work has a child star during the depression. But most importantly, this is an encyclopedia, and the primary criteria must be the clear presentation of accurate and relevant information. The previous manner of handling the "breast cancer thing" was far too ambiguous and indirect. I have made a first stab at a clear description of Black and breast cancer, but of course welcome any help in improving it. Gogh 23:38, 29 July 2007 (UTC)
I called my local KR newsdesk and they confirmed Mr. Black's death. Knight Ridder Community Newspapers Inc. (650) 327-9090 http://www.paloaltodailynews.com/
Kaufman: I am going to let your deletion about the religious stuff stand, but the situation is complicated. Now I know that Mr. Black was a Ivy-league educated junior executive. I gotta do some more reading about this. I mentioned the explaination about the religious stuff because I anticipated that the reader would assume that there was something wrong because of his not seeing any of ST's films. The guy just passed away and hopefully some decent info will come out in some obits that will allow us to write a page on him. The whole way that Andrea Dworkin's death was handled at Wikipedia was so messy. Let's try to do this one more nicely. We need that ten-word summary of what he was: marine research entrepaneur is close, but we need better.
BTW: My citation on the religious stuff (I assume it is true):
http://www.adherents.com/people/pt/Shirley_Temple.html
"Later Shirley Temple met Charlie Black, a man who had been raised in a boarding school with extremely restrictive practices limiting exposure to films and even radio. Charlie was completely unaware of her fame and had never seen any of her movies."
As far as I am concerned, this is journlistic standards applied to an on-line encyclopedia. Together, we will figure out the right thing to do. Amorrow 05:35, 7 August 2005 (UTC)
Yes, I de-wikified the Bobby-Soxer link. I want the page to be nice and complete if people look at it next week because of Mr. Black's passing. The red link bothers me. Can anyone put out a quick review of that film? I have already done something (not very good yet) for her first husband. Amorrow 05:42, 7 August 2005 (UTC)
I changed the intro. The long list of movie is uninteresting. IMDb has that. Why did I do it. It was practically an involutary act.
1. I listen to KQED in San Francisco. Every Sunday, they have City Arts & Lectures. http://www.cityarts.net/ Every Sunday, I hear Linda Hunt say: Great artists ... blah blah blah .. "often discussing the creating process." THAT is what people want to know. THAT is what Mrs. Black wants people to know. How did she DO THAT? How the heck did get get all those movies made??? She has a great memory and she has talent.
2. I sat through "The Little Princess" with my daughter at least a half dozen time, and I loved it because I got to spend time with her and she liked it. At the end of the video, they summarize Temple's work style. She could memorize entire scripts. Steel trap memory. She could learn all the dance steps (citation: "Codfish Ball"). She could cry on cue, but the rest time... if was as if she was on happy pills all the time.
That is why I made the changes. In light of the recent events, it also reads well.
Now, I feel that I have described part of MY creative process.
Since people have a "thing" about all those links, I am going to start a new practice here at Wikipedia. I will cite my sources (shock, shock).
OK, some of the source suck on the page, like that last Reagan link: That massive document for just one line. But some of those things are better cites about STB than Wikipedia will EVER be. I was just trying to dredge up some info on Mr. Black. I heard that there was an obit in
Now I guesss I will have to scrounge for a copy of the rag (it is actually a nice paper, I just like rough humor a lot).
I am sure that we all enjoy the obvious insinuation that STB drinks a lot of ST cocktails of all varieties. I am laughing at the newly-widowed person, boys. Ya happy now? Amorrow 00:57, 8 August 2005 (UTC)
The Palo Alto Daily News (the Friday edition, i.e. the August 5, 2005 edition FYI) says this:
Shirley Temple's spouse, C. Black, dead at 86
Charles Black, a businessman, maritime expert, and the husband of former child star Shirley Temple Black, died yesterday of complication of a bone marrow disease, his wife said. He was 86.
Black died at his home in the San Francisco suburb of Woodside, with his wife off 55 years and other family members by his side. He had suffered from the bone disorder myelodysplastic syndrome for nearly three years.
The couple met in 1950 in Honolulu where Black had been working for a shipping company. They married that same year. "He was an intensley interesting and fascinating man to me," Mrs. Black, a former U.S. ambassador to Ghana, said by phone from her home yesterday night. "I fell in love with him at first sight. It sounds corny, but that's what happened. But I don't think he did with me."
Mrs. Black, 77, was 22, when she and her husband met.
After moving to California, Black started a fishing and hatchery company and worked as a consultant on maritime issues. He served on a U.S. Commerce Department advisory committee as well as various National Research Council panels. He also co-founded a Massachusetts-based company that developed unmanned deep ocean search and survey imaging systems.
Born in 1919, Black earned a master's degree in business from Stanford University and served as a naval intelligence officer in the Pacific theater during World War II, earning the Silver Star and other honors. He also served as a regent for Santa Clara University and helped established a charity that helps youth.
A Shirley Temple-style dress appeared in an episode of Teen Titans. Raven's cloak was transformed into the dress by Mother Mae-Eye. -- User:Angie Y.
From the second paragraph of the Film career section: "Many of these films are dated and would be considered offensive now." Why? -- Fritz S. ( Talk) 17:59, 27 December 2005 (UTC)
A section on racism in Shirley Temple's films is clearly not out of place - indeed, the absence of such a section is a serious flaw in the article, given how much this topic has been discussed both in film and in sociological studies. I agree that the comment that "many of these films are dated and would be considered offensive now" does refer to the early films putting children in adult roles and situations, but there has been ample criticism of racist stereotypes and images in her films. Note that simply recognizing this is not the same as accepting the claim that her films were racist - and, particularly given her age, says nothing about Temple's responsibility for it if it is racism. But to ignore this topic undermines the credibility of the entire article. I have added such a section and given two references, that specifically argue that three of her films contain racist images. This is just a begining however, and I welcome and invite other editors to add to and improve it. Gogh 06:52, 29 July 2007 (UTC)
SEWilco made a helpful change in the text - though I note that I never claimed that the word "infused" was part of Gibron's quote. I think a more complete discussion of racism in Temple's films might justify the use of the word "infuse", (and note here I do not mean that her films were infused with racism, but that the claim of most critics of her films is that they were infused with racism) but I agree that such an elaborate discussion is not appropriate to the current article, and so I agree with the revision. I made a small copy edit to SEWilco's revision to make it grammatically correct. Thanks for the help with this. I am going to look for a reference that lists the Temple films that have been identified by critics as racist - I currently note three in the article. If it is only three then it would be good to note that, as it is a small percentage of her total output. If it is more than three it would be appropriate to note that too Gogh 16:21, 29 July 2007 (UTC)
I have a thing about lists: I do not think that they belong in brilliant prose. A long list of wikilinked costars is information, but the value of all that detail is low. Just characterize her has have worked with "many of the most famous" stars and let it go at that. -- Pinktulip 11:29, 18 January 2006 (UTC)
Folks,
I cannot post the video clips of Shirley Temple below because my family owns evtv1.com and there is a :15 commercial in front of the clips. I have spoken with several long-time editors and they suggested I post the appropriate video clips on the article's talk pages for the editors to see if they wish to post them in external links.
All of these clips are 100% legal from a copyright status. You have to decide if the :15 commercial is too obtrusive or if the clips are worth the "pain" of the commercial. I leave it up to you. -Jaffer
Shirley Temple Dancing With Bojangles http://www.evtv1.com/index.asp-itemnum-226
Shirley Temple War Babies http://www.evtv1.com/index.asp-itemnum-223
Shirley Temple’s 6th Birthday http://www.evtv1.com/index.asp-itemnum-225
Unsigned post by User:Jaffer 19 Jan 2006
Mrs. Black has been trying for about five decades now to get beyond the little girl everyone else is in love with. Keep the post-film-career section about her non-film activities only. It is not like she sat around and watched TV or her own movies for five decades. -- Pinktulip 12:54, 21 January 2006 (UTC)
I added the bit about the colorized re-releases. ( Ibaranoff24 05:01, 19 March 2006 (UTC))
I am dubious of the honorary alumnae of Delta Theta Tau claim. I've done a google search for '"Shirley Temple" "Delta Theta Tau"' and come back with 2 wiki links, 1 greek101 link (where you can contribute your own information), 1 University of North Florida page of notable greeks, and a library link. And absolutely no google hits for shirley black "delta theta tau." It may be that it is an established fact but I cannot find it anywhere else other than those pages. I think if citation can't be provided then the information needs to be removed. Thanks. -- ImmortalGoddezz 05:03, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
I can believe that she didn't like any of the "Shirley Temple" variations because they were too sweet, but did she really say that one of the reasons she objected to "Shirley Temple" cocktails is because she doesn't get compensation for the use of her name? I would have thought that a celebrity who has gained such notoriety that he/she was honored with a namesake beverage would be a bit more gracious. - Grammaticus Repairo 02:56, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
I go to wikipedia for all of my history information. I went to look up Shirley Temple, my favorite childhood actress, and I didn't find much. I just thought I would leave this comment because I feel there is so much more information that you could have in your encyclopedia. Thank you for listening.
the dates of her husband's death in this page don't match up. Does anyone know for sure the day and the year? 24.19.12.229 07:19, 30 January 2007 (UTC)KP Adams
I think Shirley Temple is a really awesome actress and person.
According to Ancestry.com Shirley Temple's 15th great grandfather is Chaucer. Not sure how reliable this may be; should it be mentioned? Gavroche42 18:30, 25 May 2007 (UTC)
I have removed the Trivia section - which seems to be strongly encouraged by wikipedia. I tried to integrate as many of the significant items from this section into the main body of the article as I could. Anyone who contributed items that have been lost may want to try to integrate them into the body of the article as well. Gogh 00:45, 30 July 2007 (UTC)
I am not sure the heading labels and organization really hold together very well. I think it might be better to go for something like "early film career" "height of film career" and "later film career" or something like that. Right now heading names are taken from one item in the section that follows, but other items in the same section do not really relate. I have not changed this for now, but suggest that others give it some thought. Gogh 00:45, 30 July 2007 (UTC)
The link for "Poor Little Rich Girl" goes to the Andy Warhol movie -- quite a different story, I imagine. Pittsburgh Poet ( talk) 20:18, 17 November 2007 (UTC)
In the child star section, it says she worked for Educational Pictures starting at age 3. Later on, the article says she started working in 1928, the year of her birth! I don't know anything about her, so maybe the birth date is wrong, but one of those dates should be fixed. 69.177.232.182 ( talk) 05:43, 31 December 2007 (UTC)
iS SHiRLEy TEMPLE STiLL ALiVE BECAUSE i HAVE N0T HEARD ANyTHiNG ELSE ABOUT HER. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.91.51.77 ( talk) 01:17, 11 January 2008 (UTC)
Per debate and discussion re: assessment of the approximate 100 top priority articles of the project, this article has been included as a top priority article. Wildhartlivie ( talk) 00:50, 1 March 2008 (UTC)
In an article about America's most famous child star...there are no photos of her as a child! Surely (no pun intended) there are some avaliable for use? Morhange ( talk) 15:55, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
" ... is an Academy Award-winning actress and tap dancer ...".
This isn't quite accurate. The Oscar was awarded to her; she did not compete against other people in any competitive category, so I doubt we can say she "won" the award. Any ideas about alternative wording? -- JackofOz ( talk) 23:53, 16 August 2008 (UTC)
She was a Republican? Is she no longer a Republican? This is a somewhat abrupt and ambiguous statement.
The result of the proposal was no consensus to move the page, per the discussion below. Dekimasu よ! 15:17, 30 May 2009 (UTC)
Yes, this is her name, fellow editors. This is her name now and has been her name for many years since her wedding in 1950. So I would like to ask all the editors who are involved with improving this article, "Would you consider it an improvement to retitle this article with this great lady's present name?"
There are some good reasons to do this:
Regarding the fourth reason above, over the last several days I have sought remedies for this situation. There is a partial solution I received at the Wikipedia:Help Desk. I found that by changing a Category template to include her full name, like this...
...this did accomplish moving her name from the "T's" to the "B's" on the category page. However, due to the fact that the name that actually appears on the category page is fully governed by the PAGENAME (the name of the article where the category is installed), the name on the category page is still simply "Shirley Temple", even though it's been moved to the "B's".
This discussion listed at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Biography, Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Diplomacy, Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Actors and Filmmakers and Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Film Ed Fitzgerald t / c 18:23, 28 May 2009 (UTC)
I observe that this article uses a large number of sources. Sources primarily discussing what she did after 1950 are right to use her married name, but there are only two - one a news article.
As a wider view, Google books has 1860 entries which use "Shirley Temple"; only a third even mention Shirley Temple Black at all. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 15:24, 28 May 2009 (UTC)
The no consensus result, regarding the renaming of the Shirley Temple article to Shirley Temple Black, is acknowledged and accepted for the present. There is still a set of objective issues that remains...
If number three isn't really an issue, then I or any one of us can easily fix the other two issues. I would like to hear other opinions about number three, though, before these repairs are made. .`^) Paine Ellsworth diss`cuss (^`. 21:06, 30 May 2009 (UTC)
(out)I'm sorry, Paine, please get past this. The article is not going to be renamed, and certainly is not going to be moved for such a trivial reason as a minor category glitch. Now, I'm entire willing to assume good faith, but that doesn't preclude you explaining to everyone here what you mean by "for the present." If it means that you intend to keep pursuing this, please just stop right there: that would be disruptive, and could get you into trouble. The consensus here was clear, and overwhelming - please don't tilt at that windmill.
So, I've restored the cats to the redirect, which has a default sort of "Black, Shirley Temple" so they'll alphabatize correctly, and removed the duplicate cat from this article. It seems to me this puts the issue to rest, and we shouldn't need to discuss it any longer. Ed Fitzgerald t / c 01:21, 31 May 2009 (UTC)
I will say this, though, that by pressing that trivial issue in the manner that you are, you are almost certainly headed towards disruptive behavior. I'd take care, were I you. Ed Fitzgerald t / c 03:38, 31 May 2009 (UTC)
In the meantime, as a man married to two woman (at different times, of course) who retained their maiden names after marriage, I'm unimpressed by the gender card you're attempting to play. "Shirley Temple" may have been her "maiden" name, but it was also her professional name, at least until she changed professions, and her massive popularity as a performer (really, you should look into it sometime -- if anything, the article undersells her impact on the public in her heyday) versus her modest success as a politician/diplomat leaves no doubt whatsoever, except, apparently, in your mind, about which of her two names is more appropriate to adorn the article. Ed Fitzgerald t / c 06:58, 31 May 2009 (UTC)
(out) Just to let it be known, upon reflection I have decided to put my task to rename this article on the back burner for the time being. The main technical issue seems to be resolved to satisfaction. I do still consider that the article would be improved by being titled with Mrs. Black's full name; however, I shall keep an eye on this for awhile to see if perhaps another editor may bring up the issue independently. You have all been of tremendous help to me in my personal task to better-learn Wikipedia. Thank you very much! .`^) Paine Ellsworth diss`cuss (^`. 17:55, 31 May 2009 (UTC)
I would suggest that it may not be a good idea to move categories to the Shirley Temple Black redirect, despite the issue that results from having "Shirley Temple" alphabetized on category pages under "B". As it's one woman, not two, all the categories should be together. This is an area that our naming and categorization guidelines do not appear to address. I'd be surprised if it hasn't come up before, but I haven't yet found any precedent for what is done in these cases. Powers T 13:22, 31 May 2009 (UTC)
I think your difficulty can be adequately resolved by putting the categories in the article in the form: [[Category:Ambassadors to Ghana|Black, Shirley Temple]]; I may not have this quite right. This should make it unnecessary to have categories on the redirect page. Peterkingiron ( talk) 21:27, 31 May 2009 (UTC)
Somehow I missed this --> Wikipedia:Template messages/Redirect pages before, which reads:
It is also usually considered helpful to put redirects into the same categories as their targets, allowing the names of both the redirect and the target to appear in the category.
— [[WP:TMR]]
This seems to say that dual listings in categories for the same person is not only okay, it is "usually considered helpful". So if this is correct, then it should be okay to list all the categories on both the Shirley Temple page and the Shirley Temple Black Redirect page, don't you agree? And this makes me wonder why an admin reverted my edits back when I first copied all the cats to the STB Redirect page? I thought it was either because the name shows up in the categories in italics, or because both names show up in all the categories, or perhaps even because of both these reasons. However, now, since we find that neither reason is a big deal, then why did the admin revert my edits and rm the cats from the Redirect page? .`^) Paine Ellsworth diss`cuss (^`. 17:34, 20 June 2009 (UTC)
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