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Sexism and video games article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
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On 6 August 2021, it was proposed that this article be moved to Misogyny in the video game industry. The result of the discussion was no consensus. |
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 10 January 2022 and 4 May 2022. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Outlanderrr ( article contribs).
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 27 August 2018 and 7 December 2018. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Kestrada3.
Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT ( talk) 03:28, 18 January 2022 (UTC)
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 3 September 2018 and 3 December 2018. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Shainarojas.
Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT ( talk) 03:28, 18 January 2022 (UTC)
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 22 January 2020 and 15 March 2020. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): AMToler.
Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT ( talk) 03:28, 18 January 2022 (UTC)
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 24 August 2020 and 2 December 2020. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Spatel137. Peer reviewers: Kweischedel, MAderinsola.
Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT ( talk) 03:28, 18 January 2022 (UTC)
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 23 August 2021 and 13 December 2021. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Lyzbeths.
Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT ( talk) 03:28, 18 January 2022 (UTC)
I've removed the 2016 Gabbiadini study since it has since been discredited in the literature. See:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28639206
Wallingfordtoday ( talk) 22:47, 28 April 2019 (UTC)
https://quillette.com/2019/04/27/sexualization-in-gaming-advocacy-and-over-correction/
Fragment:
"Another study, also conducted at Ohio State, exposed Italian boys to Grand Theft Auto, a non-sexualized violent game or a control violent game. No connection was found between game conditions and empathy toward female victims of violence. Nevertheless, the authors employed a dubious, complicated analysis to suggest that a reduced empathy effect was hidden in the results. Some outlets, like the ever-credulous Time Magazine ate this story up. Unfortunately, it has been since discredited. A reanalysis I conducted with my colleague Brent Donnellan found that the study was not randomized, despite its authors claims to the contrary. All of the youngest boys ended up in the Grand Theft Auto cohort, with older boys more likely to end up in the non-sexist cohort. If random assignment had occurred, boys of different ages should be evenly spread throughout game conditions. But this is the opposite of what actually happened. In other words, age was conflated with game condition, a big problem since empathy tends to develop with age. Further, we found that even with that problem ignored, the analyses could not support even indirect links between Grand Theft Auto and sexism.
This study is a good example of what some call the Bullshit Asymmetry Factor. The study’s claim to be randomized when in fact it was not should have been grounds for retraction. However, its findings are still cited as if they provide evidence for effects. The Wikipedia page for sexism in video games, for instance, mentions only the original study, but fails to disclose that it was subsequently found to have fatal flaws." SNAAAAKE!! ( talk) 07:03, 29 April 2019 (UTC)
Christina Hoff Sommers surely was a noted participant of "a harassment campaign conducted primarily through the use of the hashtag #GamerGate", according to Wikipedia, but she is a feminist (even if only a "Jewish feminist" and not an "American feminist", also according to Wikipedia). -- SNAAAAKE!! ( talk) 18:15, 1 July 2019 (UTC)
This article focus exclusively in the West. Content on non-Western countries needs to be added to comply with Wikipedia policies. Some sources that I found with a quick search:
{{
cite journal}}
: Cite journal requires |journal=
(
help){{
cite journal}}
: Cite journal requires |journal=
(
help)Edit: adding another sources. - Rupert Loup ( talk) 16:17, 8 September 2020 (UTC)
This came up in the WPVG discord after I had made some edits elsewhere. While "sexism in video games" is a legitimate title, the problem is that this focuses on issues in the industry workplace, and of course, not so much sexism but negative aspects of that - eg misogyny. As such, a better article title for this would be "Misogyny in the video game industry" to reflect the scope. -- Masem ( t) 05:13, 27 July 2021 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: no consensus. It seems like you've gotten some very good feedback, and made alternate proposals which are more convincing/likely to gain more consensus, in concert with changes made to the article content to make it fit the new title better. It would be my suggestion to just do a quick repeat RM incorporating that feedback in a succinct manner, pinging the participants here. Because I personally would want to see those early participants weigh in to see if they still support the move in its current form, and see if any of the holdouts have changed their minds with the new move parameters. At this point, we are past two relists and the discussion is pretty dense, so it's unlikely this would get a favorable close any time soon. A more succinct and fresh RM is more likely to get a conclusive result imo. ( non-admin closure) — Shibbolethink ( ♔ ♕) 21:21, 25 August 2021 (UTC)
Sexism and video games → Misogyny in the video game industry – See prior section but this title better reflects the current content: 1) this is about the industry and people within it, and not video games themselves (we have other articles that discuss the content of video games in this light) and 2) the bulk of issues in the industry documented here are directed towards women. There may be a point where misandry (towards men) might come up, and if we get to that point, we could later rename that to "Misogyny and misandry in the video game industry" but until we have significant such content, this is all about treatment of women. Masem ( t) 23:18, 6 August 2021 (UTC) — Relisting. Muhibm0307 ( talk) 04:16, 16 August 2021 (UTC)
There are clearly, at least, two different topics here worthy of inclusion in the encyclopedia. One is sexism within video games themselves (how men are treated in games vs. how women are treated). One is sexism within the real-life companies that produce video games. Other possible topics include sexism within the broader industry (e.g. journalism) and sexism among players in online play. Currently, this article hosts all of these different ideas. I don't think this is tenable. We need a split. Red Slash 17:31, 11 August 2021 (UTC)
This is from above but pulling out for more visibility: this would involve a possible split and moving around content from other articles:
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 24 August 2022 and 21 December 2022. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Yzerr0309, Ella311, Pgvez24 ( article contribs). Peer reviewers: ETWestacott, Reirei0612, Kweekwa, Jone4194, Chenry84.
— Assignment last updated by MNmagistra ( talk) 19:53, 20 November 2022 (UTC)
I'm gonna be categorizing some of the examples in order to globalize the page.
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Sexism and video games article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find video game sources: "Sexism and video games" – news · newspapers · books · scholar · JSTOR · free images · free news sources · TWL · NYT · WP reference · VG/RS · VG/RL · WPVG/Talk |
Archives: 1 |
This template was nominated for deletion on September 8, 2014. The result of the discussion was Speedy Keep. |
This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
On 6 August 2021, it was proposed that this article be moved to Misogyny in the video game industry. The result of the discussion was no consensus. |
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 10 January 2022 and 4 May 2022. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Outlanderrr ( article contribs).
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 27 August 2018 and 7 December 2018. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Kestrada3.
Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT ( talk) 03:28, 18 January 2022 (UTC)
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 3 September 2018 and 3 December 2018. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Shainarojas.
Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT ( talk) 03:28, 18 January 2022 (UTC)
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 22 January 2020 and 15 March 2020. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): AMToler.
Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT ( talk) 03:28, 18 January 2022 (UTC)
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 24 August 2020 and 2 December 2020. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Spatel137. Peer reviewers: Kweischedel, MAderinsola.
Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT ( talk) 03:28, 18 January 2022 (UTC)
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 23 August 2021 and 13 December 2021. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Lyzbeths.
Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT ( talk) 03:28, 18 January 2022 (UTC)
I've removed the 2016 Gabbiadini study since it has since been discredited in the literature. See:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28639206
Wallingfordtoday ( talk) 22:47, 28 April 2019 (UTC)
https://quillette.com/2019/04/27/sexualization-in-gaming-advocacy-and-over-correction/
Fragment:
"Another study, also conducted at Ohio State, exposed Italian boys to Grand Theft Auto, a non-sexualized violent game or a control violent game. No connection was found between game conditions and empathy toward female victims of violence. Nevertheless, the authors employed a dubious, complicated analysis to suggest that a reduced empathy effect was hidden in the results. Some outlets, like the ever-credulous Time Magazine ate this story up. Unfortunately, it has been since discredited. A reanalysis I conducted with my colleague Brent Donnellan found that the study was not randomized, despite its authors claims to the contrary. All of the youngest boys ended up in the Grand Theft Auto cohort, with older boys more likely to end up in the non-sexist cohort. If random assignment had occurred, boys of different ages should be evenly spread throughout game conditions. But this is the opposite of what actually happened. In other words, age was conflated with game condition, a big problem since empathy tends to develop with age. Further, we found that even with that problem ignored, the analyses could not support even indirect links between Grand Theft Auto and sexism.
This study is a good example of what some call the Bullshit Asymmetry Factor. The study’s claim to be randomized when in fact it was not should have been grounds for retraction. However, its findings are still cited as if they provide evidence for effects. The Wikipedia page for sexism in video games, for instance, mentions only the original study, but fails to disclose that it was subsequently found to have fatal flaws." SNAAAAKE!! ( talk) 07:03, 29 April 2019 (UTC)
Christina Hoff Sommers surely was a noted participant of "a harassment campaign conducted primarily through the use of the hashtag #GamerGate", according to Wikipedia, but she is a feminist (even if only a "Jewish feminist" and not an "American feminist", also according to Wikipedia). -- SNAAAAKE!! ( talk) 18:15, 1 July 2019 (UTC)
This article focus exclusively in the West. Content on non-Western countries needs to be added to comply with Wikipedia policies. Some sources that I found with a quick search:
{{
cite journal}}
: Cite journal requires |journal=
(
help){{
cite journal}}
: Cite journal requires |journal=
(
help)Edit: adding another sources. - Rupert Loup ( talk) 16:17, 8 September 2020 (UTC)
This came up in the WPVG discord after I had made some edits elsewhere. While "sexism in video games" is a legitimate title, the problem is that this focuses on issues in the industry workplace, and of course, not so much sexism but negative aspects of that - eg misogyny. As such, a better article title for this would be "Misogyny in the video game industry" to reflect the scope. -- Masem ( t) 05:13, 27 July 2021 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: no consensus. It seems like you've gotten some very good feedback, and made alternate proposals which are more convincing/likely to gain more consensus, in concert with changes made to the article content to make it fit the new title better. It would be my suggestion to just do a quick repeat RM incorporating that feedback in a succinct manner, pinging the participants here. Because I personally would want to see those early participants weigh in to see if they still support the move in its current form, and see if any of the holdouts have changed their minds with the new move parameters. At this point, we are past two relists and the discussion is pretty dense, so it's unlikely this would get a favorable close any time soon. A more succinct and fresh RM is more likely to get a conclusive result imo. ( non-admin closure) — Shibbolethink ( ♔ ♕) 21:21, 25 August 2021 (UTC)
Sexism and video games → Misogyny in the video game industry – See prior section but this title better reflects the current content: 1) this is about the industry and people within it, and not video games themselves (we have other articles that discuss the content of video games in this light) and 2) the bulk of issues in the industry documented here are directed towards women. There may be a point where misandry (towards men) might come up, and if we get to that point, we could later rename that to "Misogyny and misandry in the video game industry" but until we have significant such content, this is all about treatment of women. Masem ( t) 23:18, 6 August 2021 (UTC) — Relisting. Muhibm0307 ( talk) 04:16, 16 August 2021 (UTC)
There are clearly, at least, two different topics here worthy of inclusion in the encyclopedia. One is sexism within video games themselves (how men are treated in games vs. how women are treated). One is sexism within the real-life companies that produce video games. Other possible topics include sexism within the broader industry (e.g. journalism) and sexism among players in online play. Currently, this article hosts all of these different ideas. I don't think this is tenable. We need a split. Red Slash 17:31, 11 August 2021 (UTC)
This is from above but pulling out for more visibility: this would involve a possible split and moving around content from other articles:
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 24 August 2022 and 21 December 2022. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Yzerr0309, Ella311, Pgvez24 ( article contribs). Peer reviewers: ETWestacott, Reirei0612, Kweekwa, Jone4194, Chenry84.
— Assignment last updated by MNmagistra ( talk) 19:53, 20 November 2022 (UTC)
I'm gonna be categorizing some of the examples in order to globalize the page.