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Archive 15 | ← | Archive 18 | Archive 19 | Archive 20 | Archive 21 | Archive 22 |
The result of the move request was: Procedural close. Obviously, this isn't going to fly at this time. People should refrain from making repeated discussions on the same topic; and really some if not most of the arguments against the first move probably apply against this one as well. RandomCanadian ( talk / contribs) 03:37, 4 March 2022 (UTC) ( non-admin closure)
Russo-Ukrainian War → Russo-Ukrainian conflict – This conflict has been going on for eight years, with various different wars and invasions within that, including the War in Donbas, Annexation of Crimea by Russia, and now the 2022 Russian invasion of Ukraine. Therefore, it would be more appropriate to name the overview article over all of these "conflict" rather than "war", in line with articles such as the Israeli–Palestinian conflict, the Korean conflict, or the Nagorno-Karabakh conflict. Keepcalmandchill (please ping in responses) ( talk) 03:09, 4 March 2022 (UTC)
Is the C.I.A. secretly training Ukrainians in the methods of guerilla warfare?
Are those exaggeratedly long lists of supporting countries in the infobox really necessary? I think only countries providing combat and medical support should be listed. 7szz ( talk) 22:42, 26 February 2022 (UTC)
@ Jr8825:@ Israelgonz27:@ 7szz: Pinging you all so we can discuss having a list of supporting countries. I think that a list would be nice to have, but it shouldn't include countries that have simply condemned or supported one side or another, but rather actually supplied one of the main combatants (for example, the US sending Javelin missiles to Ukraine). ― Tuna NoSurprisesPlease 03:06, 27 February 2022 (UTC)
-The reason I choose to re-add all the listed nations was that the word "Support" was not specific enough therefore I felt like nations not necessarily contributing militarily or medically should have stayed because they were supporting in other forms such as sanctions or economic ties, however, I would not oppose the removal of most of the nation if the term "supported" was more descriptive or maybe breaking it into two sections. -Israelgonz27 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Israelgonz27 ( talk • contribs) 04:07, 27 February 2022 (UTC)
I agree, I move the support info box be removed entirely or only countries that are directly in physical support be added. JasonMoore ( talk) 08:52, 27 February 2022 (UTC)
They donot want to have beef as of we all know the consequences Russia impose on whomever will try to interfere in their affairs RSA tried to put themselves in a talking but the Russian federal said whomever will try to interfere will be taught an history so on. Freddy Kabeya ( talk) 12:40, 1 March 2022 (UTC)
Can it be confirmed that at least 16,000 foreign nationals have travelled to and are currently in Ukraine to enlist in the Ukrainian army (as Spanish Civil War-style International Brigades)? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.244.210.117 ( talk) 08:18, 4 March 2022 (UTC)
Hi, consider adding the discrimination displayed by Ukrainians against Africans according to this news article by the New York Times. 176.54.82.86 ( talk) 07:59, 3 March 2022 (UTC)
It’s not a single incident and it’s being conducted repeatedly across the Polish border. It can be added to this page because it is a direct result of the war itself, as well as being added on to the refugee crisis page. JasonMoore ( talk) 20:10, 3 March 2022 (UTC)
Per WP:TOOBIG, articles should "almost certainly" be split and condensed when over 100,000 characters. Per Xtools, this article is now at 142,917 characters, or more than 42% too large. I notice a significant loading delay and the amount of information is immense, reducing readability. Relevant subpages to which information can be moved already exist, such as Historical background of the Russo-Ukrainian War, Euromaidan, Annexation of Crimea by the Russian Federation, War in Donbas, 2021–2022 Russo-Ukrainian crisis, and International reactions to the annexation of Crimea by the Russian Federation. I am going to make a significant effort to remove content from this page, and if it does not exist on those alternate pages, move it there instead. This article has some aspects of WP:PROSELINE as well, which need to be addressed. I would appreciate anyone who can help me out with this. Ganesha811 ( talk) 17:09, 1 March 2022 (UTC)
The article is now about 90k characters, or around 90% of the 100kb threshold. I expect it will grow again, but that can be addressed later. The main issues now are readability, proseline, and effective summarization, which are of course trickier to work on and harder to fix. Ganesha811 ( talk) 04:08, 2 March 2022 (UTC)
A friend of mine from the USA, who studied in Kiev in the 1980s, send me this youtube video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JrMiSQAGOS4 . I suggest adding the following section about The Cause(s) of the War: In 2015, John Mearsheimer stated, that if NATO tries to admit Ukraine, the only rational choice left to Putin would be to "wreck Ukraine". If Mearsheimer is correct, it means, that Putin is NOT trying to "conquer" Ukraine (i.e. to "rule over it"). Putin is trying to "wreck" Ukraine, so that the NATO would accept his demand not to expand the alliance eastward. It also means, that Putin is willing to stop the bloodshed and start negotiations immediately. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Walter Tau ( talk • contribs) 17:27, 4 March 2022 (UTC)
>> to quote Mearsheimer: "I think all the trouble in this case really started in April, 2008, at the NATO Summit in Bucharest, where afterward NATO issued a statement that said Ukraine and Georgia would become part of NATO." https://www.newyorker.com/news/q-and-a/why-john-mearsheimer-blames-the-us-for-the-crisis-in-ukraine/amp . As far as " 7 years too late" goes- this is the best part. Mearsheimer predicted it SEVEN YEARS AGO. This makes me wonder, if Putin is bombing Ukraine, because he listened to Mearsheimer.
>> I would welcome alternative explanations, but I have not seen any. I'd think of Putin's mental illness, but he has never lost (well, may be once, when he made Medvedev a president) , and he is winning in Ukraine too.
Many Ukrainian commenters refer to the war as "the war of Russian aggression", which would be fair to add as a (also known as ... ) to help people reach this page from Twitter and other social media platforms through searching 12.138.28.5 ( talk) 05:18, 1 March 2022 (UTC)
Many Ukrainian commentator refer to the war as “The War of Russian Liberation” which would be fair to Add. -- MindAndMemory ( talk) 20:35, 4 March 2022 (UTC)
Mzajac, per this edit, telling us: ( Ukrainian: Російсько-українська війна, romanized: Rosiisko-ukrainska viina, lit. 'Russo–Ukrainian war'), is of no real encyclopedic value. Cinderella157 ( talk) 23:23, 4 March 2022 (UTC)
In the "2015-2020 frozen conflict phase" section, the article has a red link to "Konstantin Malofayev": /info/en/?search=Konstantin_Malofayev
I believe this needs to be corrected to "Konstantin Malofeev": /info/en/?search=Konstantin_Malofeev
I'm not sure why some news sources use one name, and others use the other.
Due to the "Extended Protection", which IIRC, blocks edits from an IP, I'm not able to correct this. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.54.0.181 ( talk) 07:26, 6 March 2022 (UTC)
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Adithyareddy e ( talk) 09:02, 6 March 2022 (UTC) https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCfZCJok21Yc-LaKibr3E0sw
The list of support for Ukraine has NATO & the EU. There's no need to list the US & UK separately, as both are part of NATO.
Either that, or every member nation from those groups should be listed.
And when it comes to actual support during this war, the US hasn't been a major avenue of support compared to other European nations. 2600:6C40:100:D85:8300:28BA:53F6:F69A ( talk) 17:05, 6 March 2022 (UTC)
Turkey's Bayraktar TB2 is an effective weapon and already being used by Ukraine. I saw just announced military aids yet to arrive mentioned but already used tb2 and Turkey doesnt appear in arm suppliers to Ukraine section 88.229.63.186 ( talk) 08:25, 28 February 2022 (UTC)
Can it be confirmed as to whether the Bosphorous and Dardanelles have been closed to all Russian shipping? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.244.210.117 ( talk) 08:32, 28 February 2022 (UTC)
No doubt turkey is among the most powerful countries in EuroAsia. Turkey have complete capabilities to country attack of any country around the World. However, Turkey learned a lot from history and lost a lot due to misadventure in 1st world war. Now Turkey is smart and developed country. Turkey will never involve in any sort to direct or indirect intervention in Russo Ukrainian war. Russia and Turkey have good relations and western media try to create confusion everywhere.--
MindAndMemory (
talk)
20:33, 4 March 2022 (UTC)
Should label which are Ukrainian and which Russian. I expect they're in the same order as in previous sections, but for clarity we should be explicit. — kwami ( talk) 08:19, 6 March 2022 (UTC)
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Please remove Belarus from the Russian side of belligerents in the first infobox, the second source denies this is true, and the first one is not strong evidence. See: Talk:Russo-Ukrainian_War#Belarus'_involvement Corn Kernel ( talk) 15:30, 6 March 2022 (UTC)
So, I guess many might've seen that meme where the west's attack on libiya back under Obama, or other conflicts such as in Syria, Iraq and others~ (not mentioned in particular meme~) are called "military intervention"s in wiki articles/titles while current situation is titled 'invasion'. Seems kinda unequal if not biased~, ah no better term should probably be "inconcistent". I think it's either I'm ignorant about correct terminology, and if so I guess i could also then say that many others too, so I'd appreciate being enlightened~/having the situation clarified and it be mentioned perhaps? So that others would be able to understand too, like for example have a box like those 'this article is incomplete' boxes and have a 'why it's termed "war"/"invasion"/"intervention" ' or whatever specifically, Or if it's indeed inconsistent, have this inconcistency fixed/made consistent across such articles?.. 176.12.239.26 ( talk) 11:07, 7 March 2022 (UTC)
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3rd paragraph of main section:
Change “ He also expressed Russian irredentist views, questioned Ukraine's right to exist, and stated Ukraine was wrongfully created by Soviet Russia. ”
To “ He also expressed Russian irredentist views, questioned Ukraine’s right to exist, and wrongfully stated Ukraine was created by Soviet Russia”
The first sentence implies Soviet Russia created Ukraine but then viewed this as wrong whereas the alteration makes clear that Ukraine was not created by the Soviet Union. 82.23.89.83 ( talk) 17:24, 7 March 2022 (UTC)
The background section claims Ukraine deployed the third largest contingent to Iraq in 2004. According to this page it may have been the 4th or 5th largest. Neither is this nor any of the following claims in the same sentence backed by the linked source #35 -- indeed, it does not mention NATO, ISAF, KFOR.
2A02:8109:DC0:BAA4:0:0:0:4D0 ( talk) 19:31, 7 March 2022 (UTC)
In the infobox, we have "9,268 joined Russian forces after annexation" as a loss for Ukraine. But we also have Russian soldiers abandoning their positions or vehicles (e.g. when they run out of gas). Do we have a number for that to add to the Russian side? — kwami ( talk) 21:49, 6 March 2022 (UTC)
Is Belarus' active (military) participation confirmed anywhere? The country was added to the right in the "Belligerents" table in the sidebar, but one of the two sources –the Politico article– has since been updated to highlight the US says there's still no confirmation of this. [1] 152.171.56.187 ( talk) 19:52, 4 March 2022 (UTC)
Perhaps it should be in the "supported by" wrt recent events per the invasion article with a "since" note put there. Cinderella157 ( talk) 01:03, 8 March 2022 (UTC)
Taking into account as to what is currently happening inside Russia, what are the chances of Vladimir Putin and Alexander Lukashenko ending up like Nicolae Ceausescu and/or the Romanovs?
I think it is not entirely true that Vladimir Putin is main or only commander of Russian armies. Also the war often takes way of Russo-Polish war, or at least started in 2020 like this. Also Putin never took part in Russo-Polish war but true he map overlooked and tried to make some sort of "end celebration of it", that did not succeed because of the Polish-Ukrianian-Russian conflict going under that coundn't really stop and also the strange grayish celebration colors that he desired on, however the conflict stopped to return things in to normal political until the Ukrainians started it all over again especially with having anger on Russo-Bulgarian medical ties that opened the war grounds layer in Ukraine itself, but also is having very bad impact on med computing here.-- Medupdate ( talk) 14:54, 8 March 2022 (UTC)
Russo-Ukrainian War[21][d] is an ongoing war primarily involving Russia, pro-Russian forces, and Belarus on one side, and Ukraine and its international supporters on the other. Conflict began in February 2014 following the Revolution of Dignity, and focused on the status of Crimea and parts of the Donbas, internationally recognised as part of Ukraine. The conflict includes the Russian annexation of Crimea (2014), the war in Donbas (2014–present), naval incidents, cyberwarfare, and political tensions. 160.238.74.91 ( talk) 00:38, 8 March 2022 (UTC)
Can it be confirmed whether a Russian army general was assassinated by a sniper during a parade in Russia? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.244.210.117 ( talk) 12:32, 8 March 2022 (UTC)
I think it should be fairly stated that Ukrainians although having supporters in Bulgaria are leading a war here with making war crimes as killing people, taking over companies without any law stoppage and that Poland too is into this, and these too take over communications and computing in either friendly or unfriendly manner, with life or rape threats, and various other feeling protected by EP because EU would not recognize officially that Ukraine is leading a war against Bulgaria.
This, again, started with Rusdo-Polish and later Russo-Ukrainian conflicts that hit even on medical studies, that is the most embracing after all but even continues?
As Polish and Ukrainians tend to interfere wherever medical research is done in Bulgaria even if this is for a while (not state regulated, or thinly state subsidated) or in company (Telenor Bulgaria).
While previous times Ukraine was simply seeking and finding some support here, after some acknowledgement of what this is used for major support was refused but yet, a Ukrainian rep was elected and he without any remouses is leading war in Bulgaria naming it "war against Russia", this includes cars fights, street fights and treats, embeselment of state and private communications (making joke of the pro-medical company Telenor), attempts for humiliating medical researchers, etc. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Medupdate ( talk • contribs) 15:11, 8 March 2022 (UTC)
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Change
to
My Annotation: Please send me feedback. Sven71 ( talk) 15:15, 7 March 2022 (UTC)
References
Since Russia and Ukraine are different entities, shouldn't it be an en dash instead of a hyphen (see MOS:HYPHEN, WP:DASH, and Russia–Ukraine relations)? It's also been a topic mentioned by User:BarrelProof above and User:Mzajac in the talk's archive. — Wei4Earth ( talk, contribs) 15:30, 9 March 2022 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
The Russo-Ukrainian War[21][e] is an ongoing war primarily involving Russia and pro-Russian separatist forces on one side, and Ukraine and its international supporters on the other.
---
International supporters are not involved in the war. End of story. Stop these lies. They may like Ukraine but nobody is sending troops. Otherwise, add that North Korea is supporting Russia like The Russo-Ukrainian War[21][e] is an ongoing war primarily involving Russia and pro-Russian separatist forces, North Korea, Eritrea, China, Syria, and Belarus on one side, and Ukraine and its international supporters on the other.
Charliestalnaker (
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00:31, 10 March 2022 (UTC)
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Change links of reference 35 to:
https://nato.mfa.gov.ua/en/ukraine-and-nato/nato-ukraine-cooperation-peace-support-operations
and
https://web.archive.org/web/20210815082914/https://nato.mfa.gov.ua/en/ukraine-and-nato/nato-ukraine-cooperation-peace-support-operations 2.247.245.179 ( talk) 12:24, 10 March 2022 (UTC)
Anonymous declared a war on russia and were able to perform a series of a successful cyber attacks.. they should be listed on the Ukrainian side in the article as they are directly involved in the war — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kreyren ( talk • contribs) 03:02, 10 March 2022 (UTC)
The opening sentence of the lead is a bit misleading:
The Russo-Ukrainian War is an ongoing war primarily involving Russia, pro-Russian forces, and Belarus on one side, and Ukraine and its international supporters on the other.[emphasis added]
It would imply that Belarus is a belligerent and not just a non-belligerent supporter. It tends to also suggests that the international supporters have a belligerent involvement since while we (WP editors) may know that we don't mean that they are belligerents, our readers don't necessarily know this - that the support is indirect. The sentence needs to be cleaned-up/clarified to remove the ambiguity/lack of clarity. Suggest:
The Russo-Ukrainian War is an ongoing war primarily involving Russia and pro-Russian forces on one side, and Ukraine on the other.
This is simple and accurate. If it is absolutely necessary to add more words than the proposal, then it might be something like: "Many countries have provided various levels of support to Ukraine short of becoming belligerents in the war while Belarus (also not a belligerent) has provided Russian forces territorial access for the 2022 invasion." Cinderella157 ( talk) 01:34, 8 March 2022 (UTC)
... is an ongoing war primarily involving Russia and pro-Russian separatist forces on one side, and Ukraine.is clearer (IMHO) than
... is an ongoing war between Russia, together with pro-Russian separatist forces, and Ukraine.However, we don't need to say "primarily" in the first version. Or perhaps:
... is an ongoing war between Russia (together with pro-Russian separatist forces) and Ukraine.Changes to the note are fine. Cinderella157 ( talk) 00:59, 11 March 2022 (UTC)
Turkey should be added as they are supplying drones, etc (Bayraktar). Yes they are part of NATO but so are EU/UK/US/CA but they are listed separately Angele201002 ( talk) 08:02, 3 March 2022 (UTC)
Has Vladimir Putin threatened the countries which are supplying weapons to the Ukraine even if they are members of NATO? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.244.210.117 ( talk) 07:10, 7 March 2022 (UTC)
Are there any statistics which show how many soldiers from NATO countries have gone AWOL to go to Ukraine in order to fight against the Russian invaders? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.244.210.117 ( talk) 07:07, 11 March 2022 (UTC)
Should say the source is from 14 April 2014 to 30 September 2021. — Preceding unsigned comment added by LucasW ( talk • contribs) 20:44, 10 March 2022 (UTC)
Has the Ukrainian Government declared that the russian invaders are war criminals? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.244.210.117 ( talk) 07:26, 11 March 2022 (UTC)
Was the American journalist who was recently killed (by being shot in the head) deliberately targeted by the russians precisely because he was an American journalist?
Has Vladimir Putin ordered the carrying out of Tsarist-style anti-Semitic pogroms in Russia in order to force President Zelenskyy to surrender in Ukraine?
[1] Syria, as well as Iran, is going to send the guards of the Islamic Revolution and Hezbollah. sends 16,000 mercenaries. ZeniusBY ( talk) 09:04, 11 March 2022 (UTC)
Here is a list of some generals I believe we should add.
Russia Ukraine Valery Gerasimov Oleksii Reznikov
Valerii Zaluzhnyi Oleksandr Syrskyi — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kraut Romanov ( talk • contribs) 19:01, 10 March 2022 (UTC)
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Zelenskyy to Zelensky 2607:FEA8:E3A1:2800:424:20AD:2D01:931 ( talk) 13:29, 11 March 2022 (UTC)
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| commander1 =
2607:FEA8:E3A1:2800:424:20AD:2D01:931 ( talk) 13:36, 11 March 2022 (UTC)
Zelenskyy's name is transliterated in several different ways. Zelenskyy is the transliteration on his passport, and his administration has used it since he assumed presidency in 2019ScottishFinnishRadish ( talk) 13:44, 11 March 2022 (UTC)
Currently this article is behind on the information, thus proposing to utilize the sources from https://observers.france24.com/en/tv-shows/the-observers/20220309-ukraine-russia-osint-amateur-images-map-geolocation to keep up with the info.. Kreyren ( talk) 00:29, 12 March 2022 (UTC)
Firstly I'd like to say, I like a lot of the changes that have been happening to clean this article up lately.
Secondly, I'll address my point. Every source that points to a name in this war was published before 2022, excluding this new conflict, and it seems really disjointed to call the Crimean invasion, the following fighting in Donbas, and the current invasion part of the same war. In fact, if you think about it, there was technically a ceasefire for 8 years between Russia and Ukraine, it was a war mainly fought between Ukraine and Russian separatists who also resided in Ukraine.
To mirror this, in 1935 Hitler's regime invaded the Saarland and this started the expansion of Nazi Germany. This is usually not considered part of the main war because in between then and 1939, it was mainly a ceasefire with military planning and internal conflict occurring in Germany.
Another example here would be the Russo-Georgian War, a conflict mainly driven by ethnic cleansing which had been occurring since the 1990s, with, again, no fire exchanged between Georgia and Russia until 2008, and then no more. The article lists the war as lasting 12 days, not 17 years.
So... while there is a lack of sources right now labelling this war, I think it's safe to say that calling this 2022 offensive a part of the war that preceded currently has no support in terms of the sources that were linked in this article.
On the other hand, I think that this should be handled after the fighting dies down or the victor in this offensive is decided. New source articles will start to come out, some of them giving this conflict a name, and I think that this page is currently a good landing page for people wanting to learn about this current conflict. Icepunchies ( talk) 07:56, 1 March 2022 (UTC)
@RGloucester: I apologize if my ignorance on Russian involvement in the Donbass offended you.
Anyways, I'm going to dispute your claim of WP:OR. Press releases exist of the leaders of Ukraine, Russia, and the US, as well as others, I'm sure, that label the invasion portion of this conflict as a new war outright. Icepunchies ( talk) 08:50, 3 March 2022 (UTC)
Because I edit on mobile 90% of the time and I'm not certain how to format such sources into a talk page without just copy pasting the links. But, yeah you're right, there is the problem of NPOV with naming this article. The Russian side isn't happy if you call it a war outright, and Ukraine isn't happy if you don't publicize that this is indeed a war.
There is a Telegram video with Zelensky describing that this is the "7th day of the war", released on March the 2nd, and a transcript of Biden on February the 24th recognizing that Russia had declared war on Ukraine. The US claim is relevant because they are a NATO member and arms supplier and NATO member. Putin is, yes, calling this an "invasion" but clearly establishubg a motive not seen in previous conflicts. I have yet to read more press releases by different authorities, but again, with the lack of scholarly articles out at this time, I don't think it wise to say we're creating a histiography by separating the two conflicts when it seems that there is evidence that governments are recognizing this as a new conflict.
I'm sorry if this argument is made weaker by my inability to provide the sources directly, but again, I don't know how on a talk page, so if you'd link me somewhere that shows this I'm happy to post the sources for you. They are not "news articles" but press releases/statements either stated by leaders on video or posted to official government websites.
And, again, Saarland is not considered part of WWII or the eastern front, but Poland is. Saarland, in modern day, is viewed as escalation by the Nazis. It was gained in a status referendum, much like Crimea in 2014. So to counter your point, if Poland is part of the war, why isn't Saarland? Icepunchies ( talk) 06:44, 5 March 2022 (UTC)
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 15 | ← | Archive 18 | Archive 19 | Archive 20 | Archive 21 | Archive 22 |
The result of the move request was: Procedural close. Obviously, this isn't going to fly at this time. People should refrain from making repeated discussions on the same topic; and really some if not most of the arguments against the first move probably apply against this one as well. RandomCanadian ( talk / contribs) 03:37, 4 March 2022 (UTC) ( non-admin closure)
Russo-Ukrainian War → Russo-Ukrainian conflict – This conflict has been going on for eight years, with various different wars and invasions within that, including the War in Donbas, Annexation of Crimea by Russia, and now the 2022 Russian invasion of Ukraine. Therefore, it would be more appropriate to name the overview article over all of these "conflict" rather than "war", in line with articles such as the Israeli–Palestinian conflict, the Korean conflict, or the Nagorno-Karabakh conflict. Keepcalmandchill (please ping in responses) ( talk) 03:09, 4 March 2022 (UTC)
Is the C.I.A. secretly training Ukrainians in the methods of guerilla warfare?
Are those exaggeratedly long lists of supporting countries in the infobox really necessary? I think only countries providing combat and medical support should be listed. 7szz ( talk) 22:42, 26 February 2022 (UTC)
@ Jr8825:@ Israelgonz27:@ 7szz: Pinging you all so we can discuss having a list of supporting countries. I think that a list would be nice to have, but it shouldn't include countries that have simply condemned or supported one side or another, but rather actually supplied one of the main combatants (for example, the US sending Javelin missiles to Ukraine). ― Tuna NoSurprisesPlease 03:06, 27 February 2022 (UTC)
-The reason I choose to re-add all the listed nations was that the word "Support" was not specific enough therefore I felt like nations not necessarily contributing militarily or medically should have stayed because they were supporting in other forms such as sanctions or economic ties, however, I would not oppose the removal of most of the nation if the term "supported" was more descriptive or maybe breaking it into two sections. -Israelgonz27 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Israelgonz27 ( talk • contribs) 04:07, 27 February 2022 (UTC)
I agree, I move the support info box be removed entirely or only countries that are directly in physical support be added. JasonMoore ( talk) 08:52, 27 February 2022 (UTC)
They donot want to have beef as of we all know the consequences Russia impose on whomever will try to interfere in their affairs RSA tried to put themselves in a talking but the Russian federal said whomever will try to interfere will be taught an history so on. Freddy Kabeya ( talk) 12:40, 1 March 2022 (UTC)
Can it be confirmed that at least 16,000 foreign nationals have travelled to and are currently in Ukraine to enlist in the Ukrainian army (as Spanish Civil War-style International Brigades)? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.244.210.117 ( talk) 08:18, 4 March 2022 (UTC)
Hi, consider adding the discrimination displayed by Ukrainians against Africans according to this news article by the New York Times. 176.54.82.86 ( talk) 07:59, 3 March 2022 (UTC)
It’s not a single incident and it’s being conducted repeatedly across the Polish border. It can be added to this page because it is a direct result of the war itself, as well as being added on to the refugee crisis page. JasonMoore ( talk) 20:10, 3 March 2022 (UTC)
Per WP:TOOBIG, articles should "almost certainly" be split and condensed when over 100,000 characters. Per Xtools, this article is now at 142,917 characters, or more than 42% too large. I notice a significant loading delay and the amount of information is immense, reducing readability. Relevant subpages to which information can be moved already exist, such as Historical background of the Russo-Ukrainian War, Euromaidan, Annexation of Crimea by the Russian Federation, War in Donbas, 2021–2022 Russo-Ukrainian crisis, and International reactions to the annexation of Crimea by the Russian Federation. I am going to make a significant effort to remove content from this page, and if it does not exist on those alternate pages, move it there instead. This article has some aspects of WP:PROSELINE as well, which need to be addressed. I would appreciate anyone who can help me out with this. Ganesha811 ( talk) 17:09, 1 March 2022 (UTC)
The article is now about 90k characters, or around 90% of the 100kb threshold. I expect it will grow again, but that can be addressed later. The main issues now are readability, proseline, and effective summarization, which are of course trickier to work on and harder to fix. Ganesha811 ( talk) 04:08, 2 March 2022 (UTC)
A friend of mine from the USA, who studied in Kiev in the 1980s, send me this youtube video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JrMiSQAGOS4 . I suggest adding the following section about The Cause(s) of the War: In 2015, John Mearsheimer stated, that if NATO tries to admit Ukraine, the only rational choice left to Putin would be to "wreck Ukraine". If Mearsheimer is correct, it means, that Putin is NOT trying to "conquer" Ukraine (i.e. to "rule over it"). Putin is trying to "wreck" Ukraine, so that the NATO would accept his demand not to expand the alliance eastward. It also means, that Putin is willing to stop the bloodshed and start negotiations immediately. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Walter Tau ( talk • contribs) 17:27, 4 March 2022 (UTC)
>> to quote Mearsheimer: "I think all the trouble in this case really started in April, 2008, at the NATO Summit in Bucharest, where afterward NATO issued a statement that said Ukraine and Georgia would become part of NATO." https://www.newyorker.com/news/q-and-a/why-john-mearsheimer-blames-the-us-for-the-crisis-in-ukraine/amp . As far as " 7 years too late" goes- this is the best part. Mearsheimer predicted it SEVEN YEARS AGO. This makes me wonder, if Putin is bombing Ukraine, because he listened to Mearsheimer.
>> I would welcome alternative explanations, but I have not seen any. I'd think of Putin's mental illness, but he has never lost (well, may be once, when he made Medvedev a president) , and he is winning in Ukraine too.
Many Ukrainian commenters refer to the war as "the war of Russian aggression", which would be fair to add as a (also known as ... ) to help people reach this page from Twitter and other social media platforms through searching 12.138.28.5 ( talk) 05:18, 1 March 2022 (UTC)
Many Ukrainian commentator refer to the war as “The War of Russian Liberation” which would be fair to Add. -- MindAndMemory ( talk) 20:35, 4 March 2022 (UTC)
Mzajac, per this edit, telling us: ( Ukrainian: Російсько-українська війна, romanized: Rosiisko-ukrainska viina, lit. 'Russo–Ukrainian war'), is of no real encyclopedic value. Cinderella157 ( talk) 23:23, 4 March 2022 (UTC)
In the "2015-2020 frozen conflict phase" section, the article has a red link to "Konstantin Malofayev": /info/en/?search=Konstantin_Malofayev
I believe this needs to be corrected to "Konstantin Malofeev": /info/en/?search=Konstantin_Malofeev
I'm not sure why some news sources use one name, and others use the other.
Due to the "Extended Protection", which IIRC, blocks edits from an IP, I'm not able to correct this. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.54.0.181 ( talk) 07:26, 6 March 2022 (UTC)
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Adithyareddy e ( talk) 09:02, 6 March 2022 (UTC) https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCfZCJok21Yc-LaKibr3E0sw
The list of support for Ukraine has NATO & the EU. There's no need to list the US & UK separately, as both are part of NATO.
Either that, or every member nation from those groups should be listed.
And when it comes to actual support during this war, the US hasn't been a major avenue of support compared to other European nations. 2600:6C40:100:D85:8300:28BA:53F6:F69A ( talk) 17:05, 6 March 2022 (UTC)
Turkey's Bayraktar TB2 is an effective weapon and already being used by Ukraine. I saw just announced military aids yet to arrive mentioned but already used tb2 and Turkey doesnt appear in arm suppliers to Ukraine section 88.229.63.186 ( talk) 08:25, 28 February 2022 (UTC)
Can it be confirmed as to whether the Bosphorous and Dardanelles have been closed to all Russian shipping? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.244.210.117 ( talk) 08:32, 28 February 2022 (UTC)
No doubt turkey is among the most powerful countries in EuroAsia. Turkey have complete capabilities to country attack of any country around the World. However, Turkey learned a lot from history and lost a lot due to misadventure in 1st world war. Now Turkey is smart and developed country. Turkey will never involve in any sort to direct or indirect intervention in Russo Ukrainian war. Russia and Turkey have good relations and western media try to create confusion everywhere.--
MindAndMemory (
talk)
20:33, 4 March 2022 (UTC)
Should label which are Ukrainian and which Russian. I expect they're in the same order as in previous sections, but for clarity we should be explicit. — kwami ( talk) 08:19, 6 March 2022 (UTC)
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Please remove Belarus from the Russian side of belligerents in the first infobox, the second source denies this is true, and the first one is not strong evidence. See: Talk:Russo-Ukrainian_War#Belarus'_involvement Corn Kernel ( talk) 15:30, 6 March 2022 (UTC)
So, I guess many might've seen that meme where the west's attack on libiya back under Obama, or other conflicts such as in Syria, Iraq and others~ (not mentioned in particular meme~) are called "military intervention"s in wiki articles/titles while current situation is titled 'invasion'. Seems kinda unequal if not biased~, ah no better term should probably be "inconcistent". I think it's either I'm ignorant about correct terminology, and if so I guess i could also then say that many others too, so I'd appreciate being enlightened~/having the situation clarified and it be mentioned perhaps? So that others would be able to understand too, like for example have a box like those 'this article is incomplete' boxes and have a 'why it's termed "war"/"invasion"/"intervention" ' or whatever specifically, Or if it's indeed inconsistent, have this inconcistency fixed/made consistent across such articles?.. 176.12.239.26 ( talk) 11:07, 7 March 2022 (UTC)
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3rd paragraph of main section:
Change “ He also expressed Russian irredentist views, questioned Ukraine's right to exist, and stated Ukraine was wrongfully created by Soviet Russia. ”
To “ He also expressed Russian irredentist views, questioned Ukraine’s right to exist, and wrongfully stated Ukraine was created by Soviet Russia”
The first sentence implies Soviet Russia created Ukraine but then viewed this as wrong whereas the alteration makes clear that Ukraine was not created by the Soviet Union. 82.23.89.83 ( talk) 17:24, 7 March 2022 (UTC)
The background section claims Ukraine deployed the third largest contingent to Iraq in 2004. According to this page it may have been the 4th or 5th largest. Neither is this nor any of the following claims in the same sentence backed by the linked source #35 -- indeed, it does not mention NATO, ISAF, KFOR.
2A02:8109:DC0:BAA4:0:0:0:4D0 ( talk) 19:31, 7 March 2022 (UTC)
In the infobox, we have "9,268 joined Russian forces after annexation" as a loss for Ukraine. But we also have Russian soldiers abandoning their positions or vehicles (e.g. when they run out of gas). Do we have a number for that to add to the Russian side? — kwami ( talk) 21:49, 6 March 2022 (UTC)
Is Belarus' active (military) participation confirmed anywhere? The country was added to the right in the "Belligerents" table in the sidebar, but one of the two sources –the Politico article– has since been updated to highlight the US says there's still no confirmation of this. [1] 152.171.56.187 ( talk) 19:52, 4 March 2022 (UTC)
Perhaps it should be in the "supported by" wrt recent events per the invasion article with a "since" note put there. Cinderella157 ( talk) 01:03, 8 March 2022 (UTC)
Taking into account as to what is currently happening inside Russia, what are the chances of Vladimir Putin and Alexander Lukashenko ending up like Nicolae Ceausescu and/or the Romanovs?
I think it is not entirely true that Vladimir Putin is main or only commander of Russian armies. Also the war often takes way of Russo-Polish war, or at least started in 2020 like this. Also Putin never took part in Russo-Polish war but true he map overlooked and tried to make some sort of "end celebration of it", that did not succeed because of the Polish-Ukrianian-Russian conflict going under that coundn't really stop and also the strange grayish celebration colors that he desired on, however the conflict stopped to return things in to normal political until the Ukrainians started it all over again especially with having anger on Russo-Bulgarian medical ties that opened the war grounds layer in Ukraine itself, but also is having very bad impact on med computing here.-- Medupdate ( talk) 14:54, 8 March 2022 (UTC)
Russo-Ukrainian War[21][d] is an ongoing war primarily involving Russia, pro-Russian forces, and Belarus on one side, and Ukraine and its international supporters on the other. Conflict began in February 2014 following the Revolution of Dignity, and focused on the status of Crimea and parts of the Donbas, internationally recognised as part of Ukraine. The conflict includes the Russian annexation of Crimea (2014), the war in Donbas (2014–present), naval incidents, cyberwarfare, and political tensions. 160.238.74.91 ( talk) 00:38, 8 March 2022 (UTC)
Can it be confirmed whether a Russian army general was assassinated by a sniper during a parade in Russia? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.244.210.117 ( talk) 12:32, 8 March 2022 (UTC)
I think it should be fairly stated that Ukrainians although having supporters in Bulgaria are leading a war here with making war crimes as killing people, taking over companies without any law stoppage and that Poland too is into this, and these too take over communications and computing in either friendly or unfriendly manner, with life or rape threats, and various other feeling protected by EP because EU would not recognize officially that Ukraine is leading a war against Bulgaria.
This, again, started with Rusdo-Polish and later Russo-Ukrainian conflicts that hit even on medical studies, that is the most embracing after all but even continues?
As Polish and Ukrainians tend to interfere wherever medical research is done in Bulgaria even if this is for a while (not state regulated, or thinly state subsidated) or in company (Telenor Bulgaria).
While previous times Ukraine was simply seeking and finding some support here, after some acknowledgement of what this is used for major support was refused but yet, a Ukrainian rep was elected and he without any remouses is leading war in Bulgaria naming it "war against Russia", this includes cars fights, street fights and treats, embeselment of state and private communications (making joke of the pro-medical company Telenor), attempts for humiliating medical researchers, etc. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Medupdate ( talk • contribs) 15:11, 8 March 2022 (UTC)
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Change
to
My Annotation: Please send me feedback. Sven71 ( talk) 15:15, 7 March 2022 (UTC)
References
Since Russia and Ukraine are different entities, shouldn't it be an en dash instead of a hyphen (see MOS:HYPHEN, WP:DASH, and Russia–Ukraine relations)? It's also been a topic mentioned by User:BarrelProof above and User:Mzajac in the talk's archive. — Wei4Earth ( talk, contribs) 15:30, 9 March 2022 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
The Russo-Ukrainian War[21][e] is an ongoing war primarily involving Russia and pro-Russian separatist forces on one side, and Ukraine and its international supporters on the other.
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International supporters are not involved in the war. End of story. Stop these lies. They may like Ukraine but nobody is sending troops. Otherwise, add that North Korea is supporting Russia like The Russo-Ukrainian War[21][e] is an ongoing war primarily involving Russia and pro-Russian separatist forces, North Korea, Eritrea, China, Syria, and Belarus on one side, and Ukraine and its international supporters on the other.
Charliestalnaker (
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00:31, 10 March 2022 (UTC)
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Change links of reference 35 to:
https://nato.mfa.gov.ua/en/ukraine-and-nato/nato-ukraine-cooperation-peace-support-operations
and
https://web.archive.org/web/20210815082914/https://nato.mfa.gov.ua/en/ukraine-and-nato/nato-ukraine-cooperation-peace-support-operations 2.247.245.179 ( talk) 12:24, 10 March 2022 (UTC)
Anonymous declared a war on russia and were able to perform a series of a successful cyber attacks.. they should be listed on the Ukrainian side in the article as they are directly involved in the war — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kreyren ( talk • contribs) 03:02, 10 March 2022 (UTC)
The opening sentence of the lead is a bit misleading:
The Russo-Ukrainian War is an ongoing war primarily involving Russia, pro-Russian forces, and Belarus on one side, and Ukraine and its international supporters on the other.[emphasis added]
It would imply that Belarus is a belligerent and not just a non-belligerent supporter. It tends to also suggests that the international supporters have a belligerent involvement since while we (WP editors) may know that we don't mean that they are belligerents, our readers don't necessarily know this - that the support is indirect. The sentence needs to be cleaned-up/clarified to remove the ambiguity/lack of clarity. Suggest:
The Russo-Ukrainian War is an ongoing war primarily involving Russia and pro-Russian forces on one side, and Ukraine on the other.
This is simple and accurate. If it is absolutely necessary to add more words than the proposal, then it might be something like: "Many countries have provided various levels of support to Ukraine short of becoming belligerents in the war while Belarus (also not a belligerent) has provided Russian forces territorial access for the 2022 invasion." Cinderella157 ( talk) 01:34, 8 March 2022 (UTC)
... is an ongoing war primarily involving Russia and pro-Russian separatist forces on one side, and Ukraine.is clearer (IMHO) than
... is an ongoing war between Russia, together with pro-Russian separatist forces, and Ukraine.However, we don't need to say "primarily" in the first version. Or perhaps:
... is an ongoing war between Russia (together with pro-Russian separatist forces) and Ukraine.Changes to the note are fine. Cinderella157 ( talk) 00:59, 11 March 2022 (UTC)
Turkey should be added as they are supplying drones, etc (Bayraktar). Yes they are part of NATO but so are EU/UK/US/CA but they are listed separately Angele201002 ( talk) 08:02, 3 March 2022 (UTC)
Has Vladimir Putin threatened the countries which are supplying weapons to the Ukraine even if they are members of NATO? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.244.210.117 ( talk) 07:10, 7 March 2022 (UTC)
Are there any statistics which show how many soldiers from NATO countries have gone AWOL to go to Ukraine in order to fight against the Russian invaders? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.244.210.117 ( talk) 07:07, 11 March 2022 (UTC)
Should say the source is from 14 April 2014 to 30 September 2021. — Preceding unsigned comment added by LucasW ( talk • contribs) 20:44, 10 March 2022 (UTC)
Has the Ukrainian Government declared that the russian invaders are war criminals? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.244.210.117 ( talk) 07:26, 11 March 2022 (UTC)
Was the American journalist who was recently killed (by being shot in the head) deliberately targeted by the russians precisely because he was an American journalist?
Has Vladimir Putin ordered the carrying out of Tsarist-style anti-Semitic pogroms in Russia in order to force President Zelenskyy to surrender in Ukraine?
[1] Syria, as well as Iran, is going to send the guards of the Islamic Revolution and Hezbollah. sends 16,000 mercenaries. ZeniusBY ( talk) 09:04, 11 March 2022 (UTC)
Here is a list of some generals I believe we should add.
Russia Ukraine Valery Gerasimov Oleksii Reznikov
Valerii Zaluzhnyi Oleksandr Syrskyi — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kraut Romanov ( talk • contribs) 19:01, 10 March 2022 (UTC)
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Zelenskyy to Zelensky 2607:FEA8:E3A1:2800:424:20AD:2D01:931 ( talk) 13:29, 11 March 2022 (UTC)
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| commander1 =
2607:FEA8:E3A1:2800:424:20AD:2D01:931 ( talk) 13:36, 11 March 2022 (UTC)
Zelenskyy's name is transliterated in several different ways. Zelenskyy is the transliteration on his passport, and his administration has used it since he assumed presidency in 2019ScottishFinnishRadish ( talk) 13:44, 11 March 2022 (UTC)
Currently this article is behind on the information, thus proposing to utilize the sources from https://observers.france24.com/en/tv-shows/the-observers/20220309-ukraine-russia-osint-amateur-images-map-geolocation to keep up with the info.. Kreyren ( talk) 00:29, 12 March 2022 (UTC)
Firstly I'd like to say, I like a lot of the changes that have been happening to clean this article up lately.
Secondly, I'll address my point. Every source that points to a name in this war was published before 2022, excluding this new conflict, and it seems really disjointed to call the Crimean invasion, the following fighting in Donbas, and the current invasion part of the same war. In fact, if you think about it, there was technically a ceasefire for 8 years between Russia and Ukraine, it was a war mainly fought between Ukraine and Russian separatists who also resided in Ukraine.
To mirror this, in 1935 Hitler's regime invaded the Saarland and this started the expansion of Nazi Germany. This is usually not considered part of the main war because in between then and 1939, it was mainly a ceasefire with military planning and internal conflict occurring in Germany.
Another example here would be the Russo-Georgian War, a conflict mainly driven by ethnic cleansing which had been occurring since the 1990s, with, again, no fire exchanged between Georgia and Russia until 2008, and then no more. The article lists the war as lasting 12 days, not 17 years.
So... while there is a lack of sources right now labelling this war, I think it's safe to say that calling this 2022 offensive a part of the war that preceded currently has no support in terms of the sources that were linked in this article.
On the other hand, I think that this should be handled after the fighting dies down or the victor in this offensive is decided. New source articles will start to come out, some of them giving this conflict a name, and I think that this page is currently a good landing page for people wanting to learn about this current conflict. Icepunchies ( talk) 07:56, 1 March 2022 (UTC)
@RGloucester: I apologize if my ignorance on Russian involvement in the Donbass offended you.
Anyways, I'm going to dispute your claim of WP:OR. Press releases exist of the leaders of Ukraine, Russia, and the US, as well as others, I'm sure, that label the invasion portion of this conflict as a new war outright. Icepunchies ( talk) 08:50, 3 March 2022 (UTC)
Because I edit on mobile 90% of the time and I'm not certain how to format such sources into a talk page without just copy pasting the links. But, yeah you're right, there is the problem of NPOV with naming this article. The Russian side isn't happy if you call it a war outright, and Ukraine isn't happy if you don't publicize that this is indeed a war.
There is a Telegram video with Zelensky describing that this is the "7th day of the war", released on March the 2nd, and a transcript of Biden on February the 24th recognizing that Russia had declared war on Ukraine. The US claim is relevant because they are a NATO member and arms supplier and NATO member. Putin is, yes, calling this an "invasion" but clearly establishubg a motive not seen in previous conflicts. I have yet to read more press releases by different authorities, but again, with the lack of scholarly articles out at this time, I don't think it wise to say we're creating a histiography by separating the two conflicts when it seems that there is evidence that governments are recognizing this as a new conflict.
I'm sorry if this argument is made weaker by my inability to provide the sources directly, but again, I don't know how on a talk page, so if you'd link me somewhere that shows this I'm happy to post the sources for you. They are not "news articles" but press releases/statements either stated by leaders on video or posted to official government websites.
And, again, Saarland is not considered part of WWII or the eastern front, but Poland is. Saarland, in modern day, is viewed as escalation by the Nazis. It was gained in a status referendum, much like Crimea in 2014. So to counter your point, if Poland is part of the war, why isn't Saarland? Icepunchies ( talk) 06:44, 5 March 2022 (UTC)