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Just to let anyone who is listening know - I just posted a link to this in a comment on slashdot, so this page will probably get a half dozen edits in the next couple hours. -- Raul654 13:33, 18 Dec 2003 (UTC)
I'm not sure it's a good idea to have Daneel's alter ego names listed in the opening paragraph of the article -- wouldn't those constitute spoilers, since it's supposed to be the big surprise in Prelude to Foundation that Demerzel and Hummin are one and the same, and he's actually Daneel? I'm going to remove the parenthetical "also known as" from the opening sentence, since the alter ego names are listed in bold later in the article (below the spoiler notice). -- Dan Carlson 13:15, Jun 10, 2004 (UTC)
Same problem with redirection
I don't know if this is the right place to note this, but I think there's another (major) spoiler due to the fact both Chetter Hummin and Eto Demerzel pages link to Daneel's one. Even though linking those pages is a good idea, is there any (reasonable) way to prevent users being redirected without any spoiler warning? →ale_bahgat 12:10, Nov 2, 2005 (UTC)
I changed this line:
To read:
From Prelude to Foundation:
This indicates, to me, that Daneel cannot have been the inventor of the Zeroth law. If anyone has better information, please correct me.
[[User:Shred| Shred -§-]] 01:51, 15 Sep 2004 (UTC)
I have here Robots and Empire. It's the spanish translation, but it's a good one (Plaza & Janés Editorial). I roughly translate (chapter 63):
It was Daneel the one who invents the Zeroth law. I suppose Daneel says later that Giskard invented the Zeroth law because it was through their mutual discussion that he was able to state it. Further, if I recall correctly, it was Giskard the one that mentions that something is incomplete in the Three Laws of Robotics, but it was Daneel the one that invented the Zeroth law.
So, I change the line to the original form.
-- Canek 22:05, 15 Jan 2005 (UTC)
This is going to sound horribly petty but.... in the article introduction it says Daneel was contructed to be impossible to disinguish from humans "like many robots of the period."
If memory serves, Daneel was one of a kind at the time (other than Jander). In fact, a lot of "Robots of Dawn" revolved around Falstofe's rival trying to get the secrets of humaniform construction. Even during the time of "Robots and Empire" humaniform robots were quite rare, at least in deployment.
My point is, Daneel was very much *unlike* the robots of his period, him being a humaniform. Should the introduction be changed?
No definition is given for the "period" that is encompassed by that statement. While Daneel was the first, and unique at the time, it seems well established that others were constructed in fairly short order, with varying degrees of perfection in their emulation of humans. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.34.40.3 ( talk) 18:10, 13 January 2010 (UTC)
Was or did "Hummin" violate the three laws of robotics? He was seen "protecting" Hari Seldon at the begining of Prelude to Foundation, wasn't he?? - Plau 15:16, 19 April 2006 (UTC)
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Having just concluded the Aurora trilogy, written by Mark W. Tiedemann, I am left to wonder why such appearances are not a part of this article. While R. Daneel is not ever named outright, it is made clear in the final pages of the third book in the trilogy, Aurora, that Ariel's assistant, Hofton, is in fact Daneel. Elements of his overarching work to guide humanity are also part of the resolution to the entire situation. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.34.40.3 ( talk) 18:17, 13 January 2010 (UTC)
I've read everything from "I, Robot" to "Foundation's Edge", among others in between, and I've never found an explanation behind Daneel's name. It would seem some etymological derivation of "Daniel Oliver". According to Wikipedia there was a British botanist and a congressman from New York, USA in the 19th century, both named "Daniel Oliver". Maybe Asimov was fascinated with one of them or these are familial names he is honoring in his books? Does anyone know? 99.22.228.93 ( talk) 15:35, 17 May 2011 (UTC)
Of course, it might be a complete red herring and mean nothing at all.... 82.3.148.90 ( talk) 13:58, 20 April 2013 (UTC)
The best anagram I found for "Robot Daneel Olivaw" is "A Viable Wonder Tool". — Preceding unsigned comment added by 104.175.196.206 ( talk) 21:33, 1 September 2020 (UTC)
I read elsewhere that there are some obvious anagrams in Asimov's series. What about Cleon/clone? Martindo ( talk) 12:33, 30 October 2021 (UTC)
Although I thought I remembered Daneel being built on Earth, too, there is this bit in Foundation and Earth that I just read:
"Perfectly, sir. I was manufactured, and existed for a time - how brief a time it seems to me, now - on the Spacer world of Aurora." (Kindle location 5220)
Although a bit awkward, that seems to have Daneel saying that he was manufactured on Aurora, not Earth. Yamki ( talk) 14:30, 14 June 2017 (UTC)
This section has existed for 3 years without a single source and seems almost totally to consist of WP:OR, some of it fairly uncontroversial, but some of it more dubious. My clearing of it was reverted. Please include cites immediately to avoid deletion. Ashmoo ( talk) 10:27, 9 November 2017 (UTC)
Daneel didn't learn that in "Robots and the Empire", he had that capability in "The Caves of Steel". Someone please adjust the main article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.204.73.99 ( talk) 21:53, 13 December 2019 (UTC)
——
As explained to Bailey by Daneel in "The caves of steel" (when cerebroanalysis is mentioned in chapter 10 on being used for checking Commissioner Enderby's innocence in the murder committed in Spacetown), the analysis is "the interpretation of the electromagnetic fields of the living brain cells". One cannot emphasize enough the explanation (with a copyright of 1953) of Asimov: it is not only the prediction of Magnetic Resonance Imaging, demonstrated 20 years later by P. Lauterbur in Nature, 1973, but also of the (still much disputed) claims on the use of fMRI for detecting deceit. Quite a prediction in Asimov's bag! I added a brief phrase on that fact in the article's introduction, and corrected what Daneel obtains from such an analysis in the Character Biography section (e.g., does not "read thoughts" but the emotional status of brain activity). BbBrox ( talk) 05:00, 17 November 2021 (UTC)
I read the entire Asmovseries a couple years ago and vaguely recall someone searches out R. Damsel and finds him ‘retired’ on the moon in caverns there, ingeniously hidden. I was fascinated and wanted to reread it, but alas, I can’t find it. HELP. Send to :dcmanning48@gmail.com. Thanks. 2603:7000:D100:B9F7:98DF:9FCD:8782:3ABA ( talk) 19:50, 15 December 2021 (UTC)
This article is 99% WP:FANCRUFTy WP:ALLPLOT summary, with little indicating WP:GNG of the topic. It needs a major rewrite, perhaps even at WP:TNT level - we should focus on discussing the character's reception/significance, based on reliable sources by scholars of literature and sf. Encyclopedias should go beyond plot summaries. Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 11:13, 16 January 2022 (UTC)
This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
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Please help fix the broken anchors. You can remove this template after fixing the problems. |
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Just to let anyone who is listening know - I just posted a link to this in a comment on slashdot, so this page will probably get a half dozen edits in the next couple hours. -- Raul654 13:33, 18 Dec 2003 (UTC)
I'm not sure it's a good idea to have Daneel's alter ego names listed in the opening paragraph of the article -- wouldn't those constitute spoilers, since it's supposed to be the big surprise in Prelude to Foundation that Demerzel and Hummin are one and the same, and he's actually Daneel? I'm going to remove the parenthetical "also known as" from the opening sentence, since the alter ego names are listed in bold later in the article (below the spoiler notice). -- Dan Carlson 13:15, Jun 10, 2004 (UTC)
Same problem with redirection
I don't know if this is the right place to note this, but I think there's another (major) spoiler due to the fact both Chetter Hummin and Eto Demerzel pages link to Daneel's one. Even though linking those pages is a good idea, is there any (reasonable) way to prevent users being redirected without any spoiler warning? →ale_bahgat 12:10, Nov 2, 2005 (UTC)
I changed this line:
To read:
From Prelude to Foundation:
This indicates, to me, that Daneel cannot have been the inventor of the Zeroth law. If anyone has better information, please correct me.
[[User:Shred| Shred -§-]] 01:51, 15 Sep 2004 (UTC)
I have here Robots and Empire. It's the spanish translation, but it's a good one (Plaza & Janés Editorial). I roughly translate (chapter 63):
It was Daneel the one who invents the Zeroth law. I suppose Daneel says later that Giskard invented the Zeroth law because it was through their mutual discussion that he was able to state it. Further, if I recall correctly, it was Giskard the one that mentions that something is incomplete in the Three Laws of Robotics, but it was Daneel the one that invented the Zeroth law.
So, I change the line to the original form.
-- Canek 22:05, 15 Jan 2005 (UTC)
This is going to sound horribly petty but.... in the article introduction it says Daneel was contructed to be impossible to disinguish from humans "like many robots of the period."
If memory serves, Daneel was one of a kind at the time (other than Jander). In fact, a lot of "Robots of Dawn" revolved around Falstofe's rival trying to get the secrets of humaniform construction. Even during the time of "Robots and Empire" humaniform robots were quite rare, at least in deployment.
My point is, Daneel was very much *unlike* the robots of his period, him being a humaniform. Should the introduction be changed?
No definition is given for the "period" that is encompassed by that statement. While Daneel was the first, and unique at the time, it seems well established that others were constructed in fairly short order, with varying degrees of perfection in their emulation of humans. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.34.40.3 ( talk) 18:10, 13 January 2010 (UTC)
Was or did "Hummin" violate the three laws of robotics? He was seen "protecting" Hari Seldon at the begining of Prelude to Foundation, wasn't he?? - Plau 15:16, 19 April 2006 (UTC)
Image:ElijahBailey.gif is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.
If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.
BetacommandBot 01:44, 26 October 2007 (UTC)
The image Image:The-naked-sun-doubleday-cover.jpg is used in this article under a claim of fair use, but it does not have an adequate explanation for why it meets the requirements for such images when used here. In particular, for each page the image is used on, it must have an explanation linking to that page which explains why it needs to be used on that page. Please check
This is an automated notice by FairuseBot. For assistance on the image use policy, see Wikipedia:Media copyright questions. -- 10:14, 2 November 2008 (UTC)
Having just concluded the Aurora trilogy, written by Mark W. Tiedemann, I am left to wonder why such appearances are not a part of this article. While R. Daneel is not ever named outright, it is made clear in the final pages of the third book in the trilogy, Aurora, that Ariel's assistant, Hofton, is in fact Daneel. Elements of his overarching work to guide humanity are also part of the resolution to the entire situation. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.34.40.3 ( talk) 18:17, 13 January 2010 (UTC)
I've read everything from "I, Robot" to "Foundation's Edge", among others in between, and I've never found an explanation behind Daneel's name. It would seem some etymological derivation of "Daniel Oliver". According to Wikipedia there was a British botanist and a congressman from New York, USA in the 19th century, both named "Daniel Oliver". Maybe Asimov was fascinated with one of them or these are familial names he is honoring in his books? Does anyone know? 99.22.228.93 ( talk) 15:35, 17 May 2011 (UTC)
Of course, it might be a complete red herring and mean nothing at all.... 82.3.148.90 ( talk) 13:58, 20 April 2013 (UTC)
The best anagram I found for "Robot Daneel Olivaw" is "A Viable Wonder Tool". — Preceding unsigned comment added by 104.175.196.206 ( talk) 21:33, 1 September 2020 (UTC)
I read elsewhere that there are some obvious anagrams in Asimov's series. What about Cleon/clone? Martindo ( talk) 12:33, 30 October 2021 (UTC)
Although I thought I remembered Daneel being built on Earth, too, there is this bit in Foundation and Earth that I just read:
"Perfectly, sir. I was manufactured, and existed for a time - how brief a time it seems to me, now - on the Spacer world of Aurora." (Kindle location 5220)
Although a bit awkward, that seems to have Daneel saying that he was manufactured on Aurora, not Earth. Yamki ( talk) 14:30, 14 June 2017 (UTC)
This section has existed for 3 years without a single source and seems almost totally to consist of WP:OR, some of it fairly uncontroversial, but some of it more dubious. My clearing of it was reverted. Please include cites immediately to avoid deletion. Ashmoo ( talk) 10:27, 9 November 2017 (UTC)
Daneel didn't learn that in "Robots and the Empire", he had that capability in "The Caves of Steel". Someone please adjust the main article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.204.73.99 ( talk) 21:53, 13 December 2019 (UTC)
——
As explained to Bailey by Daneel in "The caves of steel" (when cerebroanalysis is mentioned in chapter 10 on being used for checking Commissioner Enderby's innocence in the murder committed in Spacetown), the analysis is "the interpretation of the electromagnetic fields of the living brain cells". One cannot emphasize enough the explanation (with a copyright of 1953) of Asimov: it is not only the prediction of Magnetic Resonance Imaging, demonstrated 20 years later by P. Lauterbur in Nature, 1973, but also of the (still much disputed) claims on the use of fMRI for detecting deceit. Quite a prediction in Asimov's bag! I added a brief phrase on that fact in the article's introduction, and corrected what Daneel obtains from such an analysis in the Character Biography section (e.g., does not "read thoughts" but the emotional status of brain activity). BbBrox ( talk) 05:00, 17 November 2021 (UTC)
I read the entire Asmovseries a couple years ago and vaguely recall someone searches out R. Damsel and finds him ‘retired’ on the moon in caverns there, ingeniously hidden. I was fascinated and wanted to reread it, but alas, I can’t find it. HELP. Send to :dcmanning48@gmail.com. Thanks. 2603:7000:D100:B9F7:98DF:9FCD:8782:3ABA ( talk) 19:50, 15 December 2021 (UTC)
This article is 99% WP:FANCRUFTy WP:ALLPLOT summary, with little indicating WP:GNG of the topic. It needs a major rewrite, perhaps even at WP:TNT level - we should focus on discussing the character's reception/significance, based on reliable sources by scholars of literature and sf. Encyclopedias should go beyond plot summaries. Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 11:13, 16 January 2022 (UTC)