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Qilin in popular culture was nominated for deletion. The discussion was closed on 03 March 2012 with a consensus to merge. Its contents were merged into Qilin. The original page is now a redirect to this page. For the contribution history and old versions of the redirected article, please see its history; for its talk page, see here. |
NOTE:Due to the existance of Qilin as a redirect to Kirin I was not able to easily move the Kirin page (it trips over the redirect). Rather than enlist the aid of an administrator I copy-paste moved the contents. The History of the Qilin page prior to this move will be found in the Kirin page, now a disambiguation, and similarly for the history of the talk, it is on Talk:Kirin, now a redirect to this page. Leonard G. 05:34, 1 Jul 2004 (UTC)
A kirin is a specifically Japanese version of the original Chinese ky-lin that is being discussed in this article. This article should be retitled, with Kirin as a redirect. Wetman 19:46, 30 Jun 2004 (UTC)
I agree with Leonard that if kirin and qilin has the same origin and base of mythology but only differ in regional appearance variation -- It is not very good to separate similar things up. A lot of redundancies will occur in kirin and qilin if they are separated. For example, the Chinese goddess of mercy Guanyin and its Japanese version ( Kannon) are described on the same page.
I never saw a Japanese kirin depiction before, but according to OED, it's basically the same:
Kirin [Jap., f. Chinese (see KYLIN).], A fabulous beast of composite form, freq. portrayed in Japanese pottery and art (see quots.); = KYLIN.
1900 F. LITCHFIELD Pott. & Porc. vii. 172 Figure subjects are not common in this kind of china, but one finds representations of..the Kirin.., a monster with the body and hoofs of a deer, the tail of a bull, and a horn on his forehead.
Just for comparison, OED's entry on kylin:
Kylin, [ad. Chinese chi-lin (Wade), f. chi male + lin female.]
A fabulous animal of composite form, commonly figured on Chinese and Japanese pottery. According to the Erh Ya, it has the body of a deer, the tail of an ox, and a single horn, from which it is often called the Chinese Unicorn’ (Mayers' Chinese Reader's Man., Shanghai, 1874, 127).
As to the title, I don't feel strongly either way. But qilin is probably more suitable, even if this page describes kirin as well (not that it differs much, according to OED). Because qilin, the Chinese version, is the original "ancestor" version. -- Menchi 20:53, 30 Jun 2004 (UTC)
I'll move the page if no one else does, the only question is which is the appropriate romanization in Chinese. I leave that up to those more expert in this matter. Post here, or just relocate the page. I can track down the links to avoid needed redirects where encounterd. It seems that the Kirin entry, rather than a redirect, should be a disambiguation - that way we don't have to mention beer on this page. Then we could chase down kirin links and direct them (hidden) to qilin (or whatever is chosen for this page). We still need a Kirin image - can we find anyone with this? Next time I go on tour I will post an itinerary and ask for picture requests. Now that I am editing I can recall sooo many things that I coulda, woulda, shoulda taken pictures of, but saw no need for my particular shows. Leonard G. 02:50, 1 Jul 2004 (UTC)
See move note at top of page Leonard G. 05:34, 1 Jul 2004 (UTC)
I went through all links to Kirin.
I believe that the move is now complete. Leonard G. 06:12, 1 Jul 2004 (UTC)
Where does the spelling "ki'lin" come from? All other spellings is associated with which dialog it comes from except this one. Is it WG? I'd prefer the pinyin spelling. I am surprised that most mysterous spelling becomes the default spelling throughout the whole article. Kowloonese 02:24, 19 January 2006 (UTC)
The folowing was straying too far from the subject Unicorn ( Wetman 17:40, 13 February 2006 (UTC)):
The Qilin is not "spelled" as Sabitun Sabintu, Hariharipo Hariharimo, Билигтэй Бэлэгтэй Гөрөөс, Kỳ lân, or Ki len. It is "called" those names in other languages. It is almost invariably called "Qilin", "Kirin" or "Kylin" in English.
This is the English wikipedia. Users who are interested in finding out its translation in world languages can click on the interwiki.
As a compromise, I have preserved the list of foreign language names for you. -- PalaceGuard008 04:14, 31 May 2007 (UTC)
Image:KirinGW.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.
If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.
BetacommandBot 21:28, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
This image appears to be a Lion Dog or Fu Dog/ Chinese lion and not a Qilin. Fus are usually shown in pairs where when facing them the right flanking one has a ball under its left front paw and the left flanking one has a boar under its right front paw. This image is that of the right flanking Fu. Qilin, even in its most basic depiction, have three characteristics: horns like a deer, mane like a horse and body like a cow... and this Porcelain figurine have none. CJLippert ( talk) 14:42, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
An interesting example of a stone engraving shows the azure dragon, red bird woodpecker, and Mythic Qilin or kirin was discovered nearby Cahokia Mounds in Wickes, Missouri, USA. This interesting artifact is pictured here: http://www.freewebs.com/historyofmonksmound. I suggest adding a piece in the ancient cultures area about the Native American symbolism of the Qilin. This appears to be one of the only examples of the four guardians of the cardinal directions. Any suggestions? Marburg72 ( talk) 02:05, 26 June 2008 (UTC)
I'm removing some. Just having the same name isn't enough, for instance, that could be just a coincidence and isn't meaningful. Dougweller ( talk) 11:11, 17 April 2009 (UTC)
I have removed this unsourced sentence from the Origins section of the article, for the following reasons:
CapnPrep ( talk) 07:05, 6 August 2011 (UTC)
I noticed that the article doesn't include the Kirin from Guild Wars: http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Kirin 98.157.215.93 ( talk) 05:56, 7 March 2012 (UTC)
Nethack also features ki-rins: http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Ki-rin — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.50.70.168 ( talk) 14:38, 26 April 2012 (UTC)
The pokemon Suicune isn't mentioned and it shares similarities with the kirin. 24.93.146.230 ( talk) 18:25, 11 February 2016 (UTC)
The theory that qilin derives from the Somali word geri was proposed by Gabriel Ferrand in "Le nom de la giraffe dans le Ying yai cheng lan" in "Journal Asiatique" (July-August 1918) pp.155-158, and has been widely repeated; but the theory was refuted by Berthold Laufer in his "The Giraffe in History and Art" (1928) pp.98-99, where he says: "This ingenious supposition is not entirely convincing for several reasons. First, a direct contact of the Chinese with the Somali is unproved. Second, the old Chinese pronunciation gi-lin holds good only for the T'ang period, not for the fifteenth century when the Chinese actually made the acquaintance of the giraffe and when the word was articulated k'i-lin as at present. Third, the name k'i-lin was applied to the animal in China when it arrived there as early as 1414, the Chinese naturally believing that it virtually was the k'i-lin of their ancient lore. Ferrand insists that Ma Huan heard the Somali word giri at Aden, but Ma Huan himself did not visit Aden; his account of Aden is based on the report of the eunuch Li who was at Aden in 1422, but at least eight years earlier the giraffe was designated k'i-lin on Chinese soil. For these reasons the Somali hypothesis appears to me unnecessary. The question is merely of an adaptation of an old name to a novel animal, not of an attempt at transcribing a foreign word." Clearly the Chinese word "qilin", which dates back to the mid 1st millenium BCE could not have been derived from a Somali word 2,000 years before there was contact between China and Africa, and the most one could say is that the similarity of the Somali word geri with the Chinese word qilin was a reason why the Chinese called the giraffe a qilin. This is a far cry from claiming that "The word Qilin is derived from the Somali word Geri, which means Giraffe." BabelStone ( talk) 20:39, 4 December 2012 (UTC)
How did this article get connected to Cryptozoology? I don't see any text (possibly removed?) suggesting that this was anything but a mythical beast. Kortoso ( talk) 00:34, 8 December 2012 (UTC)
Is there a source for the paragraph about unicorn being a mistranslation for qilin? At the moment it reads like some wiki editor's own interpretation and not an academic opinion. 獨角獸 seems to be a modern Chinese word translated from English or other European languages, and I don't think there is such a thing as unicorn in old Chinese text, so it is a bit odd to say that there is an actual word in Chinese for unicorn, given that Chinese won't want to confuse unicorn and qilin and they obviously won't use the same word as qilin, therefore the "actual word" is actually a word from the West. The use of unicorn as a translation for qilin appears to be a Western approximation of the mythical creature so that a Western reader can easily understand an alien concept from another culture. That happens very often, while you can say that it is not entirely accurate, that doesn't make it a mistranslation. Hzh ( talk) 14:41, 12 February 2014 (UTC)
Just the standard mandarin pronunciation should suffice? If you want to add the cantonese version, then why not add the versions for other chinese dialects? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 219.92.61.229 ( talk) 10:08, 3 April 2015 (UTC)
The Japanese name needs to also be given in Japanese script, and both this and the Thai name (native and romanized) should be in the lead as alternative names. In English, by far the most common name for this topic is kirin, not qilin, due to its use in branding of a popular Japanese beer, its appearance in the Dungeons & Dragons game as the kirin, etc. — SMcCandlish ☺ ☏ ¢ ≽ʌⱷ҅ᴥⱷʌ≼ 03:27, 13 June 2016 (UTC)
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It's based on a Qing era art of a Qilin, and its edited from the Qing dynasty's flag of China, made in 2021 (going by file history) instead of being from that era.
Maybe the caption should be changed to something like "Qilin based on Qing era depictions"
Dromeoraptor ( talk) 20:25, 30 October 2021 (UTC)
I hacked away a lot of unreferenced material today, and have removed the tag. Springnuts ( talk) 10:52, 11 August 2022 (UTC)
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 15 August 2022 and 9 December 2022. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Softballdad ( article contribs).
— Assignment last updated by Softballdad ( talk) 17:26, 4 October 2022 (UTC)
This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
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Qilin in popular culture was nominated for deletion. The discussion was closed on 03 March 2012 with a consensus to merge. Its contents were merged into Qilin. The original page is now a redirect to this page. For the contribution history and old versions of the redirected article, please see its history; for its talk page, see here. |
NOTE:Due to the existance of Qilin as a redirect to Kirin I was not able to easily move the Kirin page (it trips over the redirect). Rather than enlist the aid of an administrator I copy-paste moved the contents. The History of the Qilin page prior to this move will be found in the Kirin page, now a disambiguation, and similarly for the history of the talk, it is on Talk:Kirin, now a redirect to this page. Leonard G. 05:34, 1 Jul 2004 (UTC)
A kirin is a specifically Japanese version of the original Chinese ky-lin that is being discussed in this article. This article should be retitled, with Kirin as a redirect. Wetman 19:46, 30 Jun 2004 (UTC)
I agree with Leonard that if kirin and qilin has the same origin and base of mythology but only differ in regional appearance variation -- It is not very good to separate similar things up. A lot of redundancies will occur in kirin and qilin if they are separated. For example, the Chinese goddess of mercy Guanyin and its Japanese version ( Kannon) are described on the same page.
I never saw a Japanese kirin depiction before, but according to OED, it's basically the same:
Kirin [Jap., f. Chinese (see KYLIN).], A fabulous beast of composite form, freq. portrayed in Japanese pottery and art (see quots.); = KYLIN.
1900 F. LITCHFIELD Pott. & Porc. vii. 172 Figure subjects are not common in this kind of china, but one finds representations of..the Kirin.., a monster with the body and hoofs of a deer, the tail of a bull, and a horn on his forehead.
Just for comparison, OED's entry on kylin:
Kylin, [ad. Chinese chi-lin (Wade), f. chi male + lin female.]
A fabulous animal of composite form, commonly figured on Chinese and Japanese pottery. According to the Erh Ya, it has the body of a deer, the tail of an ox, and a single horn, from which it is often called the Chinese Unicorn’ (Mayers' Chinese Reader's Man., Shanghai, 1874, 127).
As to the title, I don't feel strongly either way. But qilin is probably more suitable, even if this page describes kirin as well (not that it differs much, according to OED). Because qilin, the Chinese version, is the original "ancestor" version. -- Menchi 20:53, 30 Jun 2004 (UTC)
I'll move the page if no one else does, the only question is which is the appropriate romanization in Chinese. I leave that up to those more expert in this matter. Post here, or just relocate the page. I can track down the links to avoid needed redirects where encounterd. It seems that the Kirin entry, rather than a redirect, should be a disambiguation - that way we don't have to mention beer on this page. Then we could chase down kirin links and direct them (hidden) to qilin (or whatever is chosen for this page). We still need a Kirin image - can we find anyone with this? Next time I go on tour I will post an itinerary and ask for picture requests. Now that I am editing I can recall sooo many things that I coulda, woulda, shoulda taken pictures of, but saw no need for my particular shows. Leonard G. 02:50, 1 Jul 2004 (UTC)
See move note at top of page Leonard G. 05:34, 1 Jul 2004 (UTC)
I went through all links to Kirin.
I believe that the move is now complete. Leonard G. 06:12, 1 Jul 2004 (UTC)
Where does the spelling "ki'lin" come from? All other spellings is associated with which dialog it comes from except this one. Is it WG? I'd prefer the pinyin spelling. I am surprised that most mysterous spelling becomes the default spelling throughout the whole article. Kowloonese 02:24, 19 January 2006 (UTC)
The folowing was straying too far from the subject Unicorn ( Wetman 17:40, 13 February 2006 (UTC)):
The Qilin is not "spelled" as Sabitun Sabintu, Hariharipo Hariharimo, Билигтэй Бэлэгтэй Гөрөөс, Kỳ lân, or Ki len. It is "called" those names in other languages. It is almost invariably called "Qilin", "Kirin" or "Kylin" in English.
This is the English wikipedia. Users who are interested in finding out its translation in world languages can click on the interwiki.
As a compromise, I have preserved the list of foreign language names for you. -- PalaceGuard008 04:14, 31 May 2007 (UTC)
Image:KirinGW.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.
If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.
BetacommandBot 21:28, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
This image appears to be a Lion Dog or Fu Dog/ Chinese lion and not a Qilin. Fus are usually shown in pairs where when facing them the right flanking one has a ball under its left front paw and the left flanking one has a boar under its right front paw. This image is that of the right flanking Fu. Qilin, even in its most basic depiction, have three characteristics: horns like a deer, mane like a horse and body like a cow... and this Porcelain figurine have none. CJLippert ( talk) 14:42, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
An interesting example of a stone engraving shows the azure dragon, red bird woodpecker, and Mythic Qilin or kirin was discovered nearby Cahokia Mounds in Wickes, Missouri, USA. This interesting artifact is pictured here: http://www.freewebs.com/historyofmonksmound. I suggest adding a piece in the ancient cultures area about the Native American symbolism of the Qilin. This appears to be one of the only examples of the four guardians of the cardinal directions. Any suggestions? Marburg72 ( talk) 02:05, 26 June 2008 (UTC)
I'm removing some. Just having the same name isn't enough, for instance, that could be just a coincidence and isn't meaningful. Dougweller ( talk) 11:11, 17 April 2009 (UTC)
I have removed this unsourced sentence from the Origins section of the article, for the following reasons:
CapnPrep ( talk) 07:05, 6 August 2011 (UTC)
I noticed that the article doesn't include the Kirin from Guild Wars: http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Kirin 98.157.215.93 ( talk) 05:56, 7 March 2012 (UTC)
Nethack also features ki-rins: http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Ki-rin — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.50.70.168 ( talk) 14:38, 26 April 2012 (UTC)
The pokemon Suicune isn't mentioned and it shares similarities with the kirin. 24.93.146.230 ( talk) 18:25, 11 February 2016 (UTC)
The theory that qilin derives from the Somali word geri was proposed by Gabriel Ferrand in "Le nom de la giraffe dans le Ying yai cheng lan" in "Journal Asiatique" (July-August 1918) pp.155-158, and has been widely repeated; but the theory was refuted by Berthold Laufer in his "The Giraffe in History and Art" (1928) pp.98-99, where he says: "This ingenious supposition is not entirely convincing for several reasons. First, a direct contact of the Chinese with the Somali is unproved. Second, the old Chinese pronunciation gi-lin holds good only for the T'ang period, not for the fifteenth century when the Chinese actually made the acquaintance of the giraffe and when the word was articulated k'i-lin as at present. Third, the name k'i-lin was applied to the animal in China when it arrived there as early as 1414, the Chinese naturally believing that it virtually was the k'i-lin of their ancient lore. Ferrand insists that Ma Huan heard the Somali word giri at Aden, but Ma Huan himself did not visit Aden; his account of Aden is based on the report of the eunuch Li who was at Aden in 1422, but at least eight years earlier the giraffe was designated k'i-lin on Chinese soil. For these reasons the Somali hypothesis appears to me unnecessary. The question is merely of an adaptation of an old name to a novel animal, not of an attempt at transcribing a foreign word." Clearly the Chinese word "qilin", which dates back to the mid 1st millenium BCE could not have been derived from a Somali word 2,000 years before there was contact between China and Africa, and the most one could say is that the similarity of the Somali word geri with the Chinese word qilin was a reason why the Chinese called the giraffe a qilin. This is a far cry from claiming that "The word Qilin is derived from the Somali word Geri, which means Giraffe." BabelStone ( talk) 20:39, 4 December 2012 (UTC)
How did this article get connected to Cryptozoology? I don't see any text (possibly removed?) suggesting that this was anything but a mythical beast. Kortoso ( talk) 00:34, 8 December 2012 (UTC)
Is there a source for the paragraph about unicorn being a mistranslation for qilin? At the moment it reads like some wiki editor's own interpretation and not an academic opinion. 獨角獸 seems to be a modern Chinese word translated from English or other European languages, and I don't think there is such a thing as unicorn in old Chinese text, so it is a bit odd to say that there is an actual word in Chinese for unicorn, given that Chinese won't want to confuse unicorn and qilin and they obviously won't use the same word as qilin, therefore the "actual word" is actually a word from the West. The use of unicorn as a translation for qilin appears to be a Western approximation of the mythical creature so that a Western reader can easily understand an alien concept from another culture. That happens very often, while you can say that it is not entirely accurate, that doesn't make it a mistranslation. Hzh ( talk) 14:41, 12 February 2014 (UTC)
Just the standard mandarin pronunciation should suffice? If you want to add the cantonese version, then why not add the versions for other chinese dialects? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 219.92.61.229 ( talk) 10:08, 3 April 2015 (UTC)
The Japanese name needs to also be given in Japanese script, and both this and the Thai name (native and romanized) should be in the lead as alternative names. In English, by far the most common name for this topic is kirin, not qilin, due to its use in branding of a popular Japanese beer, its appearance in the Dungeons & Dragons game as the kirin, etc. — SMcCandlish ☺ ☏ ¢ ≽ʌⱷ҅ᴥⱷʌ≼ 03:27, 13 June 2016 (UTC)
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It's based on a Qing era art of a Qilin, and its edited from the Qing dynasty's flag of China, made in 2021 (going by file history) instead of being from that era.
Maybe the caption should be changed to something like "Qilin based on Qing era depictions"
Dromeoraptor ( talk) 20:25, 30 October 2021 (UTC)
I hacked away a lot of unreferenced material today, and have removed the tag. Springnuts ( talk) 10:52, 11 August 2022 (UTC)
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 15 August 2022 and 9 December 2022. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Softballdad ( article contribs).
— Assignment last updated by Softballdad ( talk) 17:26, 4 October 2022 (UTC)