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Platformer was one of the Sports and recreation good articles, but it has been removed from the list. There are suggestions below for improving the article to meet the good article criteria. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake. | ||||||||||||||||||||||
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Where is the term "hop and bop" defined? This article does not cite any references regarding "hop and bop". Personally, I have never heard about that before. A bit of googling brought me to this http://joshwillard.com/platformgames/?page_id=19 - which mentions Boutros 2006. I do not know what he means by Boutros 2006, but I believe he might be talking about this: http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/130268/a_detailed_crossexamination_of_.php?page=1 However, not a single page in that examination mentioned "hop and bop". I can find some forum posts mentioning hop and bop (and for example this http://dailytrojan.com/2011/08/23/2d-platformers-begin-to-make-astonishing-comeback/ but it is possible that the writer of that article has used Wikipedia as his source), but it doesn't seem to be a very common term.
Does anyone have any information on the origins of this term? Should it even be used in this article? It's been two years since that section has had "original research" tag. Maybe it's time to remove parts of the section? 88.115.93.18 ( talk) 19:18, 17 February 2013 (UTC)
The whole article is heavy biased toward consoles, with no mention of home computers such as ZX Spectrum, Amstard CPC or Commodore 64. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.31.65.34 ( talk) 19:23, 27 February 2009 (UTC)
The caption on the second image states Super Mario Bros. is the best selling video game of all time. This seems likely to become potentially outdated, if not already. Perhaps 'as of (date)' should be added to prevent this? - AlKing464 04:40, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
::It's not likely to become obsolete any time soon. According to the 1999 Guiness Book of World Records it had sold more than 40 million copies on NES alone. That's more than GTA3, Vice City, San Andreas, and Halo 2 combined, and well over double the nearest runner up. I don't see it changing any time soon. Frogacuda 06:24, 19 January 2007 (UTC)
Oh, look it's changed. Wii Sports has sold 40% more copies than the famed platformer (and don't say it's a bundle game because so was Mario). Fortunately someone's already changed the caption, but I'm sure in a few years Super Mario Bros will drop down again. 86.135.87.228 ( talk) 08:42, 24 October 2010 (UTC)
Records are made to me broken, as can confirm Sir Alec Guinness, Baron Pierre de Coubertin and Usain Bolt. Also, major game sales figures reported by the companies are about as reliably objective as up-to-date military field reports transmitted to the general public in wartime. So, write accordingly. :-) Issar El-Aksab ( talk) 01:03, 9 September 2013 (UTC)
i don't feel as though the section on run and gun platform games works very well, for instance why is megaman not in it? i think it would be a far stretch to say that megaman games aren't linear and as far as the platform jumping criteria goes, the whole of the second stage of contra is nothing but platform jumping! i can understand where earthworm jim and vectorman are concerned, as the gameplay is not as linear in those games.
How is Megaman not a shooter? and how can the article say there's backtracking in Megaman? the game is a straight run forwards shooting things game.How does multi-directional shooting make platformers more like shoot-em-ups? most shoot-em up have single directional shooting ie R-type and gradius.Also Contra has, as has already been said levels with a high emphasis on jumping (whole of the second level of the first game, much of the 3rd stage of alien wars. the section on run-and-gun games is nonsence and needs a more solid criteria section. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jesus.arnold ( talk • contribs) 21:07, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
The following suggestions were generated by a semi-automatic javascript program, and might not be applicable for the article in question.
You may wish to browse through User:AndyZ/Suggestions for further ideas. Needs a lot more references before it's GA worthy M3tal H3ad 06:36, 23 January 2007 (UTC)
This list has always been a bit of a sticking point. Now that the article is much more complete, the list is probably unneccessary, so I've removed it.
Should probably have mentioned this earlier, but my main intent here is to tighten the prose as an FA candidate. Mostly, I'm going to be trying to remove unnecessary words, rephrase where I think a sentence might be unclear, and replace elements I think might be too casual in tone ("whiz through the levels," for instance). This process does sometimes make things sound choppier, so go ahead and continue passing over my own pass. ^_^ Shimeru 06:54, 30 January 2007 (UTC)
In what must count as a classic example of the long tail with respect to computer games...
This reference is poorly written and, I think, factually wrong. I would change it but what with the award and all,... jcp 12:19, 30 March 2007 (UTC)
Just Finished reading it now, and it really is quite a good read. Hope it gets promoted to featured article status soon. The only problem I have is that it doesn't really mention the enormous influence that Banjo Kazooie has had on the genre in recent years; everything from Jak and Daxter, to Ratchet and Clank, and even Nintendo's own Mario Sunshine.-- 124.176.7.158 04:34, 17 June 2007 (UTC)
Got some evidence for any of those points fella? The only thing vague here is you. I seriously wonder if you've even played this game or read a single review/critique on it, as your opinions are way out of line with the general consensus.
The mario sunshine analogy is not really that weak in my opinion, Mario carries around a secondary talking character on his back which gives him new abilities as well as adding to the story, also how have buddy systems been "around for decades" in the 3d platform game genre in 1998?
In my opinon Super Mario 64 introduced the free roaming style but other games such as Banjo kazooie Spyro the dragon Donkey kong 64 Sonic adventure Conkers bad fur days Jak and Daxter Ratchet and Clank and Crash twinsanity follow in it's foot steps —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.90.197.103 ( talk) 18:56, 12 April 2008 (UTC)
You can jump on goombas to kill them. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Sega31098 ( talk • contribs) 04:15, August 20, 2007 (UTC).
"The Nintendo 64 had the fewest 2D platformers — only Yoshi's Story and Mischief Makers — and both met with a tepid response from critics at the time."
Would not the game "Mortal Kombat Mythologies: Subzero" be counted? KxWaal 02:53, 01 October 2007 (UTC)
About Kirby and the crystal shards —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.90.197.103 ( talk) 18:52, 12 April 2008 (UTC)
Others found its relaxed pace soothing, but it remains one of the less popular games in the series. It featured difficult platform areas that were similar to the Bowser levels from Super Mario 64 with a focus on traditional platform jumping.
It seriously needs source. Although Super Mario Sunshine is not as popular as Super Mario 64, it's neither either as bad as Superman 64 nor "the less popular games of the series". there are Mario games 2 million times worse (look at Mario Teaches typing); or would you like to have SMS included in the list of the worst games ever?? 200.71.188.210 00:25, 11 October 2007 (UTC)
because no one answered, and in order to keep this article as GA, I am deleting that unverified --and uncorrected-- text. -- Twicemost ( talk) 14:44, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
As I was reading the article, this caption caught my eye.
[[Super Nintendo he the game maker is pimp aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa<mat4568765Italic text[22]</math>
Does anyone know what that was all about? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.216.187.23 ( talk) 22:21, 7 December 2007 (UTC)
Q*Bert -- Comical Action game? Isometric Platformer? How would you classify this classic arcade game? Dawynn ( talk) 12:22, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
The image Image:SonicTheHedgehog1.png is used in this article under a claim of fair use, but it does not have an adequate explanation for why it meets the requirements for such images when used here. In particular, for each page the image is used on, it must have an explanation linking to that page which explains why it needs to be used on that page. Please check
This is an automated notice by FairuseBot. For assistance on the image use policy, see Wikipedia:Media copyright questions. --04:23, 31 October 2008 (UTC)
It seems as though there's a missing subgenre of platformers where exploration of a large environment is the main focus, and the abilities gained by the character are primarily used for exploration. Metroid and the various Metroidvanias would probably fall under this category, as would Shadow Complex and (arguably) Cave Story and the more recent Mega Man games such as ZX. Should there be an additional subgenre clasification for these? - 203.117.64.67 ( talk) 08:13, 16 July 2009 (UTC)
In this section, there is no mention to New Super Mario Bros. Wii, with over 10 million copies sold to date, and being a true platformer in a 7th gen console. -- neolandes ( talk) 17:12, 7 April 2010 (UTC)
I believe there should be a mention of games like Elastomania and X-Moto and all the many clones and variations on the theme that are out there. -- TiagoTiago ( talk) 10:31, 3 June 2010 (UTC)
"Europe, North America, and Japan have played major parts in the genre's evolution"
Well, seeing as 99% of the games until recently were developed in those three regions that's hardly surprising and true for every genre per default. Of course there are exceptions like FPS. Maybe it actually wants to tell us that no single region had more influence than others? I'd probably agree with that but wouldn't it be more useful to say something like "Platform games have been popular all around the globe"? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Janbt ( talk • contribs) 16:30, 9 June 2010 (UTC)
"Others, like Space Panic and Lode Runner, are excluded because they lack the jump mechanic that is central to nearly all modern definitions of the genre"
Why then does our own Lode Runner page state that it is a platform game? -- Janbt ( talk) 21:01, 9 June 2010 (UTC)
why wasn't super metroid mentioned at all? i inserted a brief mention [ that maybe disrupted the (excellent!) prose that was there.. ] -- 187.40.231.105 ( talk) 11:08, 23 June 2010 (UTC)
Jump and run redirects to this, but it is not mentioned in the article at all. Is it a synonym or some sub-genre? -- Enmoku ( talk) 05:12, 7 November 2010 (UTC)
how? Minhtinaum ( talk) 06:21, 22 July 2016 (UTC)
There was no password system in "Alex Kidd in Miracle World". Please stop spreading lies. The source given in the article clearly refers to "High Tech World", and if that exceeds your mental capacity, you should probably not edit articles about topics you obviously have no clue about. 85.177.2.226 ( talk) 10:45, 8 May 2011 (UTC)
I didn't write this originally, but I'll delete it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Theminpoes ( talk • contribs) 09:40, 22 March 2013 (UTC)
Maybe it's just me, but it seems as if there's too many images around the single screen and scrolling movement sections. Perhaps we can cut down on the pictures around that area? -- Newimagekirby ( talk) 01:32, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
Here is an example of a turn-based platformer that may not qualify as an Action game. SharkD Talk 02:51, 23 March 2013 (UTC)
This section is for discussing the eponymous section in the Platform game article, especially my own recent edits which may require discussion and/or better sources. Some of them are admittedly bold edits, but – I hope – not so bold as to necessitate immediate revert before talking about it. My starting argument: wikification by more experienced users should lead to significant improvement of the original article. Issar El-Aksab ( talk) 00:43, 9 September 2013 (UTC)
No, I'm sorry, but you haven't read carefully enough what I had carefully phrased. Nowhere do I claim that Pepsiman was an inspiration to today's "endless running" games. In fact, I'm pretty sure no serious source exists to suggest this, as it is probably not true anyway (see
my talk page). At best, several people who have played both Pepsiman and
Subway Surfers have spontaneously commented online that the latter is almost a clone.
[1] But even then, for lack of proper references, I have removed my initial text about this and the (
weasel?) word "precursor", which was too ambiguous. I describe Pepsiman as an ancestor, because it IS precisely so. Literally, it did it before the others. The YouTube video was there precisely for the benefit of people who (like you, apparently) have never played that –admittedly obscure, and poorly rated– niche game. (It WAS niche back then, the only one of its kind, as far as I know. Fashions evolve...)
But let me explicit the issue. The reviewer's comparison to "Crash Bandicoot style" was about them both having game levels where the player character is restricted to a linear 3-D path oriented towards the "horizon", going "inside the screen". So much is true. But Crash Bandicoot remains a classic platformer otherwise. It PLAYS like one. You move however you please, by turning left, right, forward, backward on that path, and occasionally climbing. Pepsiman is fundamentally different, in that the player character cannot stop moving forward. Which, I believe, is the very definition of running games. Hence why I edited the definition to make it more precise. And why I explicited the difference with racing games that have you "driving a pedestrian", exactly like a vehicke. Pepsiman cannot come to a complete halt, or freely control its speed.
I dare consider that while a YT video (or any other) is not an authoritative reference, it isn't any less valid than a picture when it comes to just illustrating something. A photo, OR a YouTube video, cannot declare an Elvis impersonator to be his identical twin, but would it not suffice to illustrate the impersonation?
I certainly do not claim, or even suggest, that Pepsiman inspired modern running games. I just called it an "ancestor" because, without possible denying, it did ten years earlier what mobile games are doing today. My guess is, someone probably re-invented the idea
citation needed! ;-)
I think I've pinpointed the problem we have, you and I: that review doesn't make it explicit enough that in Pepsiman, the player character cannot stop moving forward, it is stuck by design in a permanent running motion. The only real difference being that Pepsiman has finite levels, and the aim is to reach the end of each. Given that I have serious difficulty dedicating time to WP (busy job, and poor internet connection), might I rely on you to find a more precise review of Pepsiman that would explicit the "endless running" element of its gameplay? In case you don't consider this YouTube video sufficiently evident. From having extensively played that game ten years ago (and unlocking both hidden costumes: old-style Pepsiman & wireframe Pepsiman), I can certify the video is 100% undoctored, and shows the game's first two levels with complete faithfulness. The Truth is facts are out there, they just need someone who will dig them out. I'll trust you to redo that (rather relevant) edit the way you see fit, since you seem more suited than me for that kind of wikification.
P.S.: Am I to understand that by WP rules, a YouTube video cannot possibly be a reference, ever, even when it is a live TV recording of the WTC towers crumbling on 9/11? How else can one cite something that "the whole world has seen" (or can see)? Surely all the written news articles are not better than authentic and undoctored images! (Unlike Apollo 11, no conspirationist has dared accuse the 9/11 images of being fake. Mercifully.) In the present case, playing the game is irrefutable proof, but few people can do so and verify firsthand. Can you suggest something better than an in-game video?
While we're at it, could you please indicate to me which videogame review sites are considered reliable/proper references for WP, as a general pointer? I'm sure they're not all equivalent, but I really lack experience in that area, and I may need it for later contributions that would spare my colleagues some needless questioning. Thank you in advance.
Issar El-Aksab (
talk) 01:57, 10 September 2013 (UTC)
OK, how's this for a much better reference?
[2]
This review from a major and very official site explicitly describes two essential elements in our discussion: "combining the Pepsiman concept with a parody of the aging classic, Paperboy", "It was nice to see the Paperboy premise dragged back into relevance" (darn, how come nobody -including me- had thought of that indisputable precursor and inspiration?
And "Pepsiman, get set... GO! You're off like a bat out of hell, running into the screen on a single track path that invariably leads straight into danger." All that's missing is Temple Run's monkeys. Everything is funnier with monkeys.
[3]
I think I can rest my case? Anyway, I can still get me a good 4 hours of sleep before having to go to work. See you tomorrow...
Issar El-Aksab (
talk) 03:00, 10 September 2013 (UTC)
ZOMG, somebody's
citation neededing the 9/11 airliners? Aw man, I thought we went over that already in
Edit War II, and we won by inventing the nukes. ;-)
But anyway... Thank you for the all pointers,
Grayfell. Very helpful, one is never too old to learn the finer details about verifiability.
I'm not too dissatisfied with the "wikifeeling" of this matter so far. We even avoided diving into a premature
Oktobickerfest in September. Gentlemen, I think what we have here is a SUCCESS to communicate. I really like the way
Diego improved my contribution in text and reference. The difference one word can make...
Speraking of which, I have one hesitation: ancestor, precursor... it seems to me that in videogames, an "ancestor" is simply one that predated, while "precursor" is, as with rulers, one that filled the same position before, making the "precursor" in need of a direct relation reference. But perhaps you feel it's the other way round,
Grayfell? My Longman dictionary asserts that a precursor "existed before something else and influenced its development". Methinks we only need to find the adequate word.
Spiritual precursor, perhaps? Things don't HAVE to always be
black or white, not even on Wikipedia, there are also
shades of grey. Again, I'm only saying that "my" old-timers came earlier, and were based on the same gaming principle, only non-endless. Pepsiman received poor reviews (which would raise many a Subway Surfers fan's eyebrow today!), and was a sales failure (cue card: "fans, raise BOTH eyebrows aghast!"). So, most likely, it didn't inspire many people. Paperboy, however, is undoubtedly (one of?) the earliest "on-rails" obstacle-surviving game(s), and pretty obviously belongs to that era where gaming mechanics were being forged for the generations to come. ("Whoa Nellie, careful in that there minefield, pilgrim!")
Re. the copyright violation of the video, since it was a commercial videogame and an "interactive advertising" in the first place, I seriously doubt the Pepsi company would object to anyone spreading such images, especially in a free and unmodified manner. In fact, they might even get the idea to sue Subway Surfers for plagiary. ("But I'll deny ever suggesting that to them!" Don't want any trouble.)
Here's a hopefully constructive suggestion: indeed, running games have rather little in common with platformers overall. They may even have more in common with "action racing" games, such as (the aptly named)
Wipeout. While videogame categories always have more or less blurry frontiers (the driving bits in
Jak and Daxter spring to mind, or the hoverboard races in the first
Ratchet and Clank), it IS a specific genre here, is it not? Methinks the problem is not not as much with my edit, as with something more global in the section where I made it, wouldn't you say? Jolly good. So, how about splitting the article from its "ancestor" tree, into its own
cut? It WOULD be fun "if endless running games had there own article" (
/info/en/?search=User:Grayfell) Settling for the least bad solution always makes me slightly bristle inside. "
Oh, bother. I do hate shoddy work." – (Eglantine Price, apprentice witch)
Finally... shmups?
citation needed Oy, vhat de smurf is a shmup? Oh. Okay, I see. That's when I'm reminded English isn't my first (or even second) language. Bah, no worries, I'll wikify it myself.
Issar El-Aksab (
talk) 04:52, 13 September 2013 (UTC)
One could argue that The 3-D Battles of WorldRunner is the first game of this genre. And it's still far more elaborate than the modern mobile casual dreck... -- Stormwatch ( talk) 01:31, 21 April 2015 (UTC)
Alas, colleague, you do me wrong,
To write me off so hastily
I did my homework all along,
So why punctuate me tersely?!?
A fever had me grind to a halt
I'm sick and tired, really, these days
But it's neither your blame nor fault. :-)
Oh how you do me wrong, let me count the ways:
You are often half right
You are often half wrong
I played Paperboy, but not Zaxxon
So you were half right
But *I* never mention Zaxxon,
Not me, check again. That's half wrong.
Paperboy has many obstacles to dodge
For each "paper shot" that one has to lodge.
It's a dominant note
[7], I won't budge.
And yet, in this I could oblige,
Except I'd undermine the reference:
Much subtle work could unravel hence
Paperboy, my OR? Hardly!
At worst, someone's POV:
[8]
[9]
[10]
Sure, there may be other links best.
You're dedicated, seek them out, be my guest!
Your local internet is probably stratospheric.
Mine is, at best, something prehistoric. :-(
For now, I'll acknowledge your trump,
Just 'cos da Paperboy can't jump!
I'm just yielding on technical form:
If you don't jump, it's no "platform"
As for
Zaxxon, what you worded...
Its Wiki article has none of it mentioned
Good luck adding that
citation needed
That tough baby's all yours, my time's quite limited
The thing is, in videogame genres,
Often.
the.
frontiers.
are.
significantly.
blurs.
We can't be too strict, and give in to terror
Sometimes them Rules it's better to ignore
Forgive me for not answering you in prose drab
But I'm the timeless poet,
Issar El-Aksab (
talk) 20:19, 18 September 2013 (UTC)
(heh) "A spoonful of sugar, et cætera"... Enjoy this rare moment, world, for it is the great bard's first masterpiece to be published for free under
GFDL!
Anyway, let's not overstretch the pleasure of a moment of fantasy. 'Tis not the place.
I am very well aware that my sources aren't (or had little hope of being) up to WP standards. I was just hoping that people having an issue at heart would bother to push the research further, instead of generally reverting and leaving me with the burden of proof. Need I always repeat that I have very little time to give WP some SERIOUS work? A revert only takes a second. A lot more is required to find and certify an info, to do some constructive work. It's just beyond my material possibilities. By next week, I'll be up to my
vertex in work and strictly an occasional pitcher-in (pitch-inner?).
If only somebody, anybody, had both the means AND the will to just do the damn in-depth research. Me, I've got to wait at least half a minute every time I open a new web page. No fib. Now, if nobody cares to investigate deeper in what seems rather convincing to some people out there (about 46,200 results for "Pepsiman Paperboy review"
[11]), I'd say it's Wikipedia's loss, period. There ARE sources that conect the dots, just none that you'd bother to seek out yourself.
Like I said, it wasn't MY point to insist on in the first place. So, if it's OR, it's not my OR, and I won't make it a personal matter. Even if Paperboy is undoubtedly a "non-endless, on-rails, unstoppably moving, obstacle-dodging game" made decades earlier. So much, IMHO, is a strictly objective summary of its definition. Like I said, I've decided to ultimately drop the Paperboy issue, since I find it rather minor. But it's not insignificant. Especially if it's true. Which it just might be. Is the ocean anything more than all them little drops?
As for declaring two editors a "consensus"... They are, doubtlessly, a majority. But a consensus of TWO? Dude, it takes at least three to make a crowd! (Should I interpret a loaded argument here? Seriously.) I suggest you study Statistics, to get a better perspective of the minimum numbers that scientifically define an objective trend. (Apologies in advance, it's very tedious stuff.)
Finally, I amicably recommend you go easy on the "endearingness" lessons, especially if you can't tell a lighthearted pun from a passive-aggressive attack. And if you don't mind previously making assumptions about a fellow editor's ignorance of the topic he's been discussing for a while. And if you don't care to discuss your repeated reverts in the talk page, just skimming it with F3. Have you even noticed the last link I gave? And read it?
Poor form, sir. (sigh) And to think I wrote you an ode as a token of goodwill... Alas, poor Issar.
I'll just leave you to meditate this, fellow colleague: in this matter, I've given YOUR opinion careful enough consideration to conclude that it had a fair right to prevail. Spontaneously. But when did you return the sporting spirit? You win, friend, and you might even deserve to, but you won by default. Ever heard of
Pyrrhus? You sure this is the best Wikipedian you can be? Someone might label it OR...
All this for a videogame... I'm really not enjoying anything of such disputes. My ego doesn't care. Honestly. But my ideal vision of Wikipedia is hurting. And so is my trachea. Time to take them meds and get some rest. Sick and tired. Please close the door on my way out.
P.S.: You might want to furnish that user page of yours some day. Felt a bit un-homely. Probaly because of the echo.
Issar El-Aksab (
talk) 23:39, 18 September 2013 (UTC)
A couple of suggestions that might deserve mentioning/developing. Alongside Vikings were two famous similar games: Humans, and the Lemmings series. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Issar El-Aksab ( talk • contribs) 23:04, 20 October 2013 (UTC)
Boltershot and 87.78.31.196 (I suspect you are the same person, but just in case not I'll tag both of you), continuing to revert one another won't solve anything, so I'm taking my own advice and bringing this to the talk page so others can weigh in. Why are you so incensed at this screenshot in particular being in the article? It seems like such an unusually specific objection. I'm not intending to promote the game - I have no ties to its developer and demonstrably didn't, as you seem to have implied, join Wikipedia just to promote the game; I joined several years before it even began development. If I were, that behavior would be discouraged, but not would not constitute direct grounds for removal of the image if it were determined to fit.
Based on your objections and your hasty addition of a Super Meat Boy screenshot, I suspect you're not familiar with Wikipedia's stringent non-free content policies. Any copyrighted image in an article must demonstrate in its fair-use rationale that it significantly illustrates the subject of the article in a way that no free image could. I added images of Pokémon XD: Gale of Darkness and Final Fantasy III (the DS version) to the Role-playing video game article a few years back, but they were removed at separate times for not offering anything substantial that a free image couldn't. With Freedom Planet, however, all of the images in its article have been freely licensed and thus are not subject to these copyright restrictions. That's why the Trine image remains in this article despite the game itself not having much historical significance, and the same is true of Freedom Planet. Any free screenshots of platformers would be fair game for this article, but these two in particular make sense because they illustrate recent developments in the genre: puzzle-platformers (Trine) and retro platformers (Freedom Planet).
There very well may be intelligent arguments against the inclusion of one or both images, but repeatedly accusing me of promotion isn't one of them. At the very least, please take the hidden comments into account and come here with concerns instead of continually reverting (which, to be fair, I didn't do right away, either). Tezero ( talk) 04:38, 2 December 2014 (UTC)
Boltershot ( talk) 05:47, 2 December 2014 (UTC)If that's the issue you saying, it's ok. It's just becoming suspicion because you mention this game on other wiki pages.
Boltershot ( talk) 06:08, 2 December 2014 (UTC) /info/en/?search=Sonic:_After_the_Sequel#See_also /info/en/?search=Sonic_the_Hedgehog_%28series%29#See_also I am done, just revert it back to your freedom planet screenshot.
As many subgenres of platformers as there are in this article, some iconic subgenres are noticeably missing. Where is the momentum-based platformer, in the vein of Sonic, Freedom Planet, and Marble Blast? Where is the twitch platformer, e.g. I Wanna Be The Guy, Syobon Action, and Battle Kid? Where is the precision platformer, if that is its technical term? The type of platformer that Mario is, that Super Meat Boy is, that so many platformers try to be? This should be sorted out. Oobooglunk ( talk) 07:03, 6 October 2015 (UTC)
Per the title, the common name of "platform games" is "platformer", as seen in basically every reliable source used by Wikipedia. ~ Dissident93 ( talk) 03:37, 11 March 2016 (UTC)
Hello, the article confuses the conecpts of endless runner and auto runner. In an endless runner, the level has no end, and is sometimes generated procedurally. In an auto runner, the player does not control the character's scrolling, only jumping. An auto runner is not necessarily endless, as there may be predefined levels. And an endless runner is not necessarily an auto runner. -- 167.58.140.0 ( talk) 13:40, 16 December 2016 (UTC)
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§ Endless running game should be renamed. These are actually auto-runner games, that may or may not be endless. Mobygames correctly uses "auto-run", because this includes ("daring escape" and) "endless runner" games. German Wikipedia at de:Auto-Runner also correctly uses "Auto-Runner" and then states that if the route is not finite, "wird auch von einem Endless-Runner oder Infinite-Runner gesprochen". Eurogamer correctly writes about an "auto-runner" here; Pocket Gamer does this here. The section should be renamed to "Auto-runner game". Then Auto-runner, Auto-runner game, Auto-running, Autorun game, Autorunning, Autorunning game, Auto running, Auto running game, Auto run game, Auto runner, Auto runner game, Auto-run game, Autorunner game and Autorunner should be pointed to the section. Auto-running game, Endless running and Endless running game should be modified. And Autorun could become a disambiguation page for AutoRun and the renamed section, with Auto-run and Auto run pointing to the disambiguation page. -- 143.176.30.65 ( talk) 22:01, 6 February 2021 (UTC)
I think Little Nightmares and Little Nightmares II deserve to be mentioned, as contemporary high-profile representatives of the genre. I would also include Planet Alpha and Stela in the list, and would mention the games in chronological order. Kumagoro-42 ( talk) 17:34, 30 April 2022 (UTC)
Quite simply put, in common modern-day parlance, "platformer" is infinitely more commonly used when talking about these games. Obviously the article shouldn't be rewritten to exclusively use this term, since "platform game" was historically used, so it makes sense to use it in that case. But for the article title, I feel it should be the most commonly-used name for the genre, and in this case that is "platformer" fairly unambiguously. Harmonia per misericordia. OmegaFallon ( talk) 19:27, 17 February 2023 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: moved. ( closed by non-admin page mover) ❯❯❯ Raydann (Talk) 03:29, 26 September 2023 (UTC)
Platform game → Platformer – The genre is overwhelmingly called platformer not platform game. There have been many people on the talk page trying to propose moves but not formally doing it for years. Immanuelle ❤️💚💙 (talk to the cutest Wikipedian) 02:54, 19 September 2023 (UTC)
This is a major genre page, so changing the name based on a 2-1 vote is ridiculous. It needed to be done in a forum with more visibility.
Second, both terms are common. If I type "platform" into the App Store search box, the top result is "Platform game" and the next is "Platformer".
A change like this cascades out into pointless work renaming categories and, eventually, thousands of genre links in game articles, for absolutely no benefit. Dgpop ( talk) 14:44, 6 November 2023 (UTC)
Wow. Way to literally destroy a page that was written so well up to a couple weeks ago... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 151.67.161.15 ( talk) 06:23, 8 November 2023 (UTC)
I think this article needs some further clarification and sources cited to clearly define what "True 3D" is, as it contradicts itself.
In the section heading "True 3D", there is no clear definition of what "true 3D" actually is, just a vague description of giving "the player more control over the character and the camera". It goes on to talk about Geograph Seal and then Jumping Flash!, citing the Guinness World Record for "First platform videogame in true 3D" for the latter.
However, earlier in the section heading "Third Dimension", the article states "The earliest example of a true 3D platformer is a French computer game called Alpha Waves". Interestingly, it's here, and not under the "True 3D" heading, where we see a link to another wikipedia article, but it links to "3D computer graphics" and not a definition of what "true 3D" is this context. What's also interesting is that there is another, separate Guinness World Record to the previous one that isn't cited here for "First 3D platform videogame", which credits Alpha Waves (although it is cited on the game's wikipedia page).
How exactly GWR differentiates these two records is unclear.
This is clearly a contradiction, so which is it? Is Alpha Waves a "true 3D" platformer or not? If yes, why isn't it under the "True 3D" heading? If no, why does the article say it is "true 3D"? What does or doesn't make it "true 3D"? What even is the definition of a "true 3D platformer"? 124.169.24.7 ( talk) 01:36, 12 December 2023 (UTC)
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Where is the term "hop and bop" defined? This article does not cite any references regarding "hop and bop". Personally, I have never heard about that before. A bit of googling brought me to this http://joshwillard.com/platformgames/?page_id=19 - which mentions Boutros 2006. I do not know what he means by Boutros 2006, but I believe he might be talking about this: http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/130268/a_detailed_crossexamination_of_.php?page=1 However, not a single page in that examination mentioned "hop and bop". I can find some forum posts mentioning hop and bop (and for example this http://dailytrojan.com/2011/08/23/2d-platformers-begin-to-make-astonishing-comeback/ but it is possible that the writer of that article has used Wikipedia as his source), but it doesn't seem to be a very common term.
Does anyone have any information on the origins of this term? Should it even be used in this article? It's been two years since that section has had "original research" tag. Maybe it's time to remove parts of the section? 88.115.93.18 ( talk) 19:18, 17 February 2013 (UTC)
The whole article is heavy biased toward consoles, with no mention of home computers such as ZX Spectrum, Amstard CPC or Commodore 64. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.31.65.34 ( talk) 19:23, 27 February 2009 (UTC)
The caption on the second image states Super Mario Bros. is the best selling video game of all time. This seems likely to become potentially outdated, if not already. Perhaps 'as of (date)' should be added to prevent this? - AlKing464 04:40, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
::It's not likely to become obsolete any time soon. According to the 1999 Guiness Book of World Records it had sold more than 40 million copies on NES alone. That's more than GTA3, Vice City, San Andreas, and Halo 2 combined, and well over double the nearest runner up. I don't see it changing any time soon. Frogacuda 06:24, 19 January 2007 (UTC)
Oh, look it's changed. Wii Sports has sold 40% more copies than the famed platformer (and don't say it's a bundle game because so was Mario). Fortunately someone's already changed the caption, but I'm sure in a few years Super Mario Bros will drop down again. 86.135.87.228 ( talk) 08:42, 24 October 2010 (UTC)
Records are made to me broken, as can confirm Sir Alec Guinness, Baron Pierre de Coubertin and Usain Bolt. Also, major game sales figures reported by the companies are about as reliably objective as up-to-date military field reports transmitted to the general public in wartime. So, write accordingly. :-) Issar El-Aksab ( talk) 01:03, 9 September 2013 (UTC)
i don't feel as though the section on run and gun platform games works very well, for instance why is megaman not in it? i think it would be a far stretch to say that megaman games aren't linear and as far as the platform jumping criteria goes, the whole of the second stage of contra is nothing but platform jumping! i can understand where earthworm jim and vectorman are concerned, as the gameplay is not as linear in those games.
How is Megaman not a shooter? and how can the article say there's backtracking in Megaman? the game is a straight run forwards shooting things game.How does multi-directional shooting make platformers more like shoot-em-ups? most shoot-em up have single directional shooting ie R-type and gradius.Also Contra has, as has already been said levels with a high emphasis on jumping (whole of the second level of the first game, much of the 3rd stage of alien wars. the section on run-and-gun games is nonsence and needs a more solid criteria section. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jesus.arnold ( talk • contribs) 21:07, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
The following suggestions were generated by a semi-automatic javascript program, and might not be applicable for the article in question.
You may wish to browse through User:AndyZ/Suggestions for further ideas. Needs a lot more references before it's GA worthy M3tal H3ad 06:36, 23 January 2007 (UTC)
This list has always been a bit of a sticking point. Now that the article is much more complete, the list is probably unneccessary, so I've removed it.
Should probably have mentioned this earlier, but my main intent here is to tighten the prose as an FA candidate. Mostly, I'm going to be trying to remove unnecessary words, rephrase where I think a sentence might be unclear, and replace elements I think might be too casual in tone ("whiz through the levels," for instance). This process does sometimes make things sound choppier, so go ahead and continue passing over my own pass. ^_^ Shimeru 06:54, 30 January 2007 (UTC)
In what must count as a classic example of the long tail with respect to computer games...
This reference is poorly written and, I think, factually wrong. I would change it but what with the award and all,... jcp 12:19, 30 March 2007 (UTC)
Just Finished reading it now, and it really is quite a good read. Hope it gets promoted to featured article status soon. The only problem I have is that it doesn't really mention the enormous influence that Banjo Kazooie has had on the genre in recent years; everything from Jak and Daxter, to Ratchet and Clank, and even Nintendo's own Mario Sunshine.-- 124.176.7.158 04:34, 17 June 2007 (UTC)
Got some evidence for any of those points fella? The only thing vague here is you. I seriously wonder if you've even played this game or read a single review/critique on it, as your opinions are way out of line with the general consensus.
The mario sunshine analogy is not really that weak in my opinion, Mario carries around a secondary talking character on his back which gives him new abilities as well as adding to the story, also how have buddy systems been "around for decades" in the 3d platform game genre in 1998?
In my opinon Super Mario 64 introduced the free roaming style but other games such as Banjo kazooie Spyro the dragon Donkey kong 64 Sonic adventure Conkers bad fur days Jak and Daxter Ratchet and Clank and Crash twinsanity follow in it's foot steps —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.90.197.103 ( talk) 18:56, 12 April 2008 (UTC)
You can jump on goombas to kill them. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Sega31098 ( talk • contribs) 04:15, August 20, 2007 (UTC).
"The Nintendo 64 had the fewest 2D platformers — only Yoshi's Story and Mischief Makers — and both met with a tepid response from critics at the time."
Would not the game "Mortal Kombat Mythologies: Subzero" be counted? KxWaal 02:53, 01 October 2007 (UTC)
About Kirby and the crystal shards —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.90.197.103 ( talk) 18:52, 12 April 2008 (UTC)
Others found its relaxed pace soothing, but it remains one of the less popular games in the series. It featured difficult platform areas that were similar to the Bowser levels from Super Mario 64 with a focus on traditional platform jumping.
It seriously needs source. Although Super Mario Sunshine is not as popular as Super Mario 64, it's neither either as bad as Superman 64 nor "the less popular games of the series". there are Mario games 2 million times worse (look at Mario Teaches typing); or would you like to have SMS included in the list of the worst games ever?? 200.71.188.210 00:25, 11 October 2007 (UTC)
because no one answered, and in order to keep this article as GA, I am deleting that unverified --and uncorrected-- text. -- Twicemost ( talk) 14:44, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
As I was reading the article, this caption caught my eye.
[[Super Nintendo he the game maker is pimp aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa<mat4568765Italic text[22]</math>
Does anyone know what that was all about? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.216.187.23 ( talk) 22:21, 7 December 2007 (UTC)
Q*Bert -- Comical Action game? Isometric Platformer? How would you classify this classic arcade game? Dawynn ( talk) 12:22, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
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It seems as though there's a missing subgenre of platformers where exploration of a large environment is the main focus, and the abilities gained by the character are primarily used for exploration. Metroid and the various Metroidvanias would probably fall under this category, as would Shadow Complex and (arguably) Cave Story and the more recent Mega Man games such as ZX. Should there be an additional subgenre clasification for these? - 203.117.64.67 ( talk) 08:13, 16 July 2009 (UTC)
In this section, there is no mention to New Super Mario Bros. Wii, with over 10 million copies sold to date, and being a true platformer in a 7th gen console. -- neolandes ( talk) 17:12, 7 April 2010 (UTC)
I believe there should be a mention of games like Elastomania and X-Moto and all the many clones and variations on the theme that are out there. -- TiagoTiago ( talk) 10:31, 3 June 2010 (UTC)
"Europe, North America, and Japan have played major parts in the genre's evolution"
Well, seeing as 99% of the games until recently were developed in those three regions that's hardly surprising and true for every genre per default. Of course there are exceptions like FPS. Maybe it actually wants to tell us that no single region had more influence than others? I'd probably agree with that but wouldn't it be more useful to say something like "Platform games have been popular all around the globe"? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Janbt ( talk • contribs) 16:30, 9 June 2010 (UTC)
"Others, like Space Panic and Lode Runner, are excluded because they lack the jump mechanic that is central to nearly all modern definitions of the genre"
Why then does our own Lode Runner page state that it is a platform game? -- Janbt ( talk) 21:01, 9 June 2010 (UTC)
why wasn't super metroid mentioned at all? i inserted a brief mention [ that maybe disrupted the (excellent!) prose that was there.. ] -- 187.40.231.105 ( talk) 11:08, 23 June 2010 (UTC)
Jump and run redirects to this, but it is not mentioned in the article at all. Is it a synonym or some sub-genre? -- Enmoku ( talk) 05:12, 7 November 2010 (UTC)
how? Minhtinaum ( talk) 06:21, 22 July 2016 (UTC)
There was no password system in "Alex Kidd in Miracle World". Please stop spreading lies. The source given in the article clearly refers to "High Tech World", and if that exceeds your mental capacity, you should probably not edit articles about topics you obviously have no clue about. 85.177.2.226 ( talk) 10:45, 8 May 2011 (UTC)
I didn't write this originally, but I'll delete it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Theminpoes ( talk • contribs) 09:40, 22 March 2013 (UTC)
Maybe it's just me, but it seems as if there's too many images around the single screen and scrolling movement sections. Perhaps we can cut down on the pictures around that area? -- Newimagekirby ( talk) 01:32, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
Here is an example of a turn-based platformer that may not qualify as an Action game. SharkD Talk 02:51, 23 March 2013 (UTC)
This section is for discussing the eponymous section in the Platform game article, especially my own recent edits which may require discussion and/or better sources. Some of them are admittedly bold edits, but – I hope – not so bold as to necessitate immediate revert before talking about it. My starting argument: wikification by more experienced users should lead to significant improvement of the original article. Issar El-Aksab ( talk) 00:43, 9 September 2013 (UTC)
No, I'm sorry, but you haven't read carefully enough what I had carefully phrased. Nowhere do I claim that Pepsiman was an inspiration to today's "endless running" games. In fact, I'm pretty sure no serious source exists to suggest this, as it is probably not true anyway (see
my talk page). At best, several people who have played both Pepsiman and
Subway Surfers have spontaneously commented online that the latter is almost a clone.
[1] But even then, for lack of proper references, I have removed my initial text about this and the (
weasel?) word "precursor", which was too ambiguous. I describe Pepsiman as an ancestor, because it IS precisely so. Literally, it did it before the others. The YouTube video was there precisely for the benefit of people who (like you, apparently) have never played that –admittedly obscure, and poorly rated– niche game. (It WAS niche back then, the only one of its kind, as far as I know. Fashions evolve...)
But let me explicit the issue. The reviewer's comparison to "Crash Bandicoot style" was about them both having game levels where the player character is restricted to a linear 3-D path oriented towards the "horizon", going "inside the screen". So much is true. But Crash Bandicoot remains a classic platformer otherwise. It PLAYS like one. You move however you please, by turning left, right, forward, backward on that path, and occasionally climbing. Pepsiman is fundamentally different, in that the player character cannot stop moving forward. Which, I believe, is the very definition of running games. Hence why I edited the definition to make it more precise. And why I explicited the difference with racing games that have you "driving a pedestrian", exactly like a vehicke. Pepsiman cannot come to a complete halt, or freely control its speed.
I dare consider that while a YT video (or any other) is not an authoritative reference, it isn't any less valid than a picture when it comes to just illustrating something. A photo, OR a YouTube video, cannot declare an Elvis impersonator to be his identical twin, but would it not suffice to illustrate the impersonation?
I certainly do not claim, or even suggest, that Pepsiman inspired modern running games. I just called it an "ancestor" because, without possible denying, it did ten years earlier what mobile games are doing today. My guess is, someone probably re-invented the idea
citation needed! ;-)
I think I've pinpointed the problem we have, you and I: that review doesn't make it explicit enough that in Pepsiman, the player character cannot stop moving forward, it is stuck by design in a permanent running motion. The only real difference being that Pepsiman has finite levels, and the aim is to reach the end of each. Given that I have serious difficulty dedicating time to WP (busy job, and poor internet connection), might I rely on you to find a more precise review of Pepsiman that would explicit the "endless running" element of its gameplay? In case you don't consider this YouTube video sufficiently evident. From having extensively played that game ten years ago (and unlocking both hidden costumes: old-style Pepsiman & wireframe Pepsiman), I can certify the video is 100% undoctored, and shows the game's first two levels with complete faithfulness. The Truth is facts are out there, they just need someone who will dig them out. I'll trust you to redo that (rather relevant) edit the way you see fit, since you seem more suited than me for that kind of wikification.
P.S.: Am I to understand that by WP rules, a YouTube video cannot possibly be a reference, ever, even when it is a live TV recording of the WTC towers crumbling on 9/11? How else can one cite something that "the whole world has seen" (or can see)? Surely all the written news articles are not better than authentic and undoctored images! (Unlike Apollo 11, no conspirationist has dared accuse the 9/11 images of being fake. Mercifully.) In the present case, playing the game is irrefutable proof, but few people can do so and verify firsthand. Can you suggest something better than an in-game video?
While we're at it, could you please indicate to me which videogame review sites are considered reliable/proper references for WP, as a general pointer? I'm sure they're not all equivalent, but I really lack experience in that area, and I may need it for later contributions that would spare my colleagues some needless questioning. Thank you in advance.
Issar El-Aksab (
talk) 01:57, 10 September 2013 (UTC)
OK, how's this for a much better reference?
[2]
This review from a major and very official site explicitly describes two essential elements in our discussion: "combining the Pepsiman concept with a parody of the aging classic, Paperboy", "It was nice to see the Paperboy premise dragged back into relevance" (darn, how come nobody -including me- had thought of that indisputable precursor and inspiration?
And "Pepsiman, get set... GO! You're off like a bat out of hell, running into the screen on a single track path that invariably leads straight into danger." All that's missing is Temple Run's monkeys. Everything is funnier with monkeys.
[3]
I think I can rest my case? Anyway, I can still get me a good 4 hours of sleep before having to go to work. See you tomorrow...
Issar El-Aksab (
talk) 03:00, 10 September 2013 (UTC)
ZOMG, somebody's
citation neededing the 9/11 airliners? Aw man, I thought we went over that already in
Edit War II, and we won by inventing the nukes. ;-)
But anyway... Thank you for the all pointers,
Grayfell. Very helpful, one is never too old to learn the finer details about verifiability.
I'm not too dissatisfied with the "wikifeeling" of this matter so far. We even avoided diving into a premature
Oktobickerfest in September. Gentlemen, I think what we have here is a SUCCESS to communicate. I really like the way
Diego improved my contribution in text and reference. The difference one word can make...
Speraking of which, I have one hesitation: ancestor, precursor... it seems to me that in videogames, an "ancestor" is simply one that predated, while "precursor" is, as with rulers, one that filled the same position before, making the "precursor" in need of a direct relation reference. But perhaps you feel it's the other way round,
Grayfell? My Longman dictionary asserts that a precursor "existed before something else and influenced its development". Methinks we only need to find the adequate word.
Spiritual precursor, perhaps? Things don't HAVE to always be
black or white, not even on Wikipedia, there are also
shades of grey. Again, I'm only saying that "my" old-timers came earlier, and were based on the same gaming principle, only non-endless. Pepsiman received poor reviews (which would raise many a Subway Surfers fan's eyebrow today!), and was a sales failure (cue card: "fans, raise BOTH eyebrows aghast!"). So, most likely, it didn't inspire many people. Paperboy, however, is undoubtedly (one of?) the earliest "on-rails" obstacle-surviving game(s), and pretty obviously belongs to that era where gaming mechanics were being forged for the generations to come. ("Whoa Nellie, careful in that there minefield, pilgrim!")
Re. the copyright violation of the video, since it was a commercial videogame and an "interactive advertising" in the first place, I seriously doubt the Pepsi company would object to anyone spreading such images, especially in a free and unmodified manner. In fact, they might even get the idea to sue Subway Surfers for plagiary. ("But I'll deny ever suggesting that to them!" Don't want any trouble.)
Here's a hopefully constructive suggestion: indeed, running games have rather little in common with platformers overall. They may even have more in common with "action racing" games, such as (the aptly named)
Wipeout. While videogame categories always have more or less blurry frontiers (the driving bits in
Jak and Daxter spring to mind, or the hoverboard races in the first
Ratchet and Clank), it IS a specific genre here, is it not? Methinks the problem is not not as much with my edit, as with something more global in the section where I made it, wouldn't you say? Jolly good. So, how about splitting the article from its "ancestor" tree, into its own
cut? It WOULD be fun "if endless running games had there own article" (
/info/en/?search=User:Grayfell) Settling for the least bad solution always makes me slightly bristle inside. "
Oh, bother. I do hate shoddy work." – (Eglantine Price, apprentice witch)
Finally... shmups?
citation needed Oy, vhat de smurf is a shmup? Oh. Okay, I see. That's when I'm reminded English isn't my first (or even second) language. Bah, no worries, I'll wikify it myself.
Issar El-Aksab (
talk) 04:52, 13 September 2013 (UTC)
One could argue that The 3-D Battles of WorldRunner is the first game of this genre. And it's still far more elaborate than the modern mobile casual dreck... -- Stormwatch ( talk) 01:31, 21 April 2015 (UTC)
Alas, colleague, you do me wrong,
To write me off so hastily
I did my homework all along,
So why punctuate me tersely?!?
A fever had me grind to a halt
I'm sick and tired, really, these days
But it's neither your blame nor fault. :-)
Oh how you do me wrong, let me count the ways:
You are often half right
You are often half wrong
I played Paperboy, but not Zaxxon
So you were half right
But *I* never mention Zaxxon,
Not me, check again. That's half wrong.
Paperboy has many obstacles to dodge
For each "paper shot" that one has to lodge.
It's a dominant note
[7], I won't budge.
And yet, in this I could oblige,
Except I'd undermine the reference:
Much subtle work could unravel hence
Paperboy, my OR? Hardly!
At worst, someone's POV:
[8]
[9]
[10]
Sure, there may be other links best.
You're dedicated, seek them out, be my guest!
Your local internet is probably stratospheric.
Mine is, at best, something prehistoric. :-(
For now, I'll acknowledge your trump,
Just 'cos da Paperboy can't jump!
I'm just yielding on technical form:
If you don't jump, it's no "platform"
As for
Zaxxon, what you worded...
Its Wiki article has none of it mentioned
Good luck adding that
citation needed
That tough baby's all yours, my time's quite limited
The thing is, in videogame genres,
Often.
the.
frontiers.
are.
significantly.
blurs.
We can't be too strict, and give in to terror
Sometimes them Rules it's better to ignore
Forgive me for not answering you in prose drab
But I'm the timeless poet,
Issar El-Aksab (
talk) 20:19, 18 September 2013 (UTC)
(heh) "A spoonful of sugar, et cætera"... Enjoy this rare moment, world, for it is the great bard's first masterpiece to be published for free under
GFDL!
Anyway, let's not overstretch the pleasure of a moment of fantasy. 'Tis not the place.
I am very well aware that my sources aren't (or had little hope of being) up to WP standards. I was just hoping that people having an issue at heart would bother to push the research further, instead of generally reverting and leaving me with the burden of proof. Need I always repeat that I have very little time to give WP some SERIOUS work? A revert only takes a second. A lot more is required to find and certify an info, to do some constructive work. It's just beyond my material possibilities. By next week, I'll be up to my
vertex in work and strictly an occasional pitcher-in (pitch-inner?).
If only somebody, anybody, had both the means AND the will to just do the damn in-depth research. Me, I've got to wait at least half a minute every time I open a new web page. No fib. Now, if nobody cares to investigate deeper in what seems rather convincing to some people out there (about 46,200 results for "Pepsiman Paperboy review"
[11]), I'd say it's Wikipedia's loss, period. There ARE sources that conect the dots, just none that you'd bother to seek out yourself.
Like I said, it wasn't MY point to insist on in the first place. So, if it's OR, it's not my OR, and I won't make it a personal matter. Even if Paperboy is undoubtedly a "non-endless, on-rails, unstoppably moving, obstacle-dodging game" made decades earlier. So much, IMHO, is a strictly objective summary of its definition. Like I said, I've decided to ultimately drop the Paperboy issue, since I find it rather minor. But it's not insignificant. Especially if it's true. Which it just might be. Is the ocean anything more than all them little drops?
As for declaring two editors a "consensus"... They are, doubtlessly, a majority. But a consensus of TWO? Dude, it takes at least three to make a crowd! (Should I interpret a loaded argument here? Seriously.) I suggest you study Statistics, to get a better perspective of the minimum numbers that scientifically define an objective trend. (Apologies in advance, it's very tedious stuff.)
Finally, I amicably recommend you go easy on the "endearingness" lessons, especially if you can't tell a lighthearted pun from a passive-aggressive attack. And if you don't mind previously making assumptions about a fellow editor's ignorance of the topic he's been discussing for a while. And if you don't care to discuss your repeated reverts in the talk page, just skimming it with F3. Have you even noticed the last link I gave? And read it?
Poor form, sir. (sigh) And to think I wrote you an ode as a token of goodwill... Alas, poor Issar.
I'll just leave you to meditate this, fellow colleague: in this matter, I've given YOUR opinion careful enough consideration to conclude that it had a fair right to prevail. Spontaneously. But when did you return the sporting spirit? You win, friend, and you might even deserve to, but you won by default. Ever heard of
Pyrrhus? You sure this is the best Wikipedian you can be? Someone might label it OR...
All this for a videogame... I'm really not enjoying anything of such disputes. My ego doesn't care. Honestly. But my ideal vision of Wikipedia is hurting. And so is my trachea. Time to take them meds and get some rest. Sick and tired. Please close the door on my way out.
P.S.: You might want to furnish that user page of yours some day. Felt a bit un-homely. Probaly because of the echo.
Issar El-Aksab (
talk) 23:39, 18 September 2013 (UTC)
A couple of suggestions that might deserve mentioning/developing. Alongside Vikings were two famous similar games: Humans, and the Lemmings series. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Issar El-Aksab ( talk • contribs) 23:04, 20 October 2013 (UTC)
Boltershot and 87.78.31.196 (I suspect you are the same person, but just in case not I'll tag both of you), continuing to revert one another won't solve anything, so I'm taking my own advice and bringing this to the talk page so others can weigh in. Why are you so incensed at this screenshot in particular being in the article? It seems like such an unusually specific objection. I'm not intending to promote the game - I have no ties to its developer and demonstrably didn't, as you seem to have implied, join Wikipedia just to promote the game; I joined several years before it even began development. If I were, that behavior would be discouraged, but not would not constitute direct grounds for removal of the image if it were determined to fit.
Based on your objections and your hasty addition of a Super Meat Boy screenshot, I suspect you're not familiar with Wikipedia's stringent non-free content policies. Any copyrighted image in an article must demonstrate in its fair-use rationale that it significantly illustrates the subject of the article in a way that no free image could. I added images of Pokémon XD: Gale of Darkness and Final Fantasy III (the DS version) to the Role-playing video game article a few years back, but they were removed at separate times for not offering anything substantial that a free image couldn't. With Freedom Planet, however, all of the images in its article have been freely licensed and thus are not subject to these copyright restrictions. That's why the Trine image remains in this article despite the game itself not having much historical significance, and the same is true of Freedom Planet. Any free screenshots of platformers would be fair game for this article, but these two in particular make sense because they illustrate recent developments in the genre: puzzle-platformers (Trine) and retro platformers (Freedom Planet).
There very well may be intelligent arguments against the inclusion of one or both images, but repeatedly accusing me of promotion isn't one of them. At the very least, please take the hidden comments into account and come here with concerns instead of continually reverting (which, to be fair, I didn't do right away, either). Tezero ( talk) 04:38, 2 December 2014 (UTC)
Boltershot ( talk) 05:47, 2 December 2014 (UTC)If that's the issue you saying, it's ok. It's just becoming suspicion because you mention this game on other wiki pages.
Boltershot ( talk) 06:08, 2 December 2014 (UTC) /info/en/?search=Sonic:_After_the_Sequel#See_also /info/en/?search=Sonic_the_Hedgehog_%28series%29#See_also I am done, just revert it back to your freedom planet screenshot.
As many subgenres of platformers as there are in this article, some iconic subgenres are noticeably missing. Where is the momentum-based platformer, in the vein of Sonic, Freedom Planet, and Marble Blast? Where is the twitch platformer, e.g. I Wanna Be The Guy, Syobon Action, and Battle Kid? Where is the precision platformer, if that is its technical term? The type of platformer that Mario is, that Super Meat Boy is, that so many platformers try to be? This should be sorted out. Oobooglunk ( talk) 07:03, 6 October 2015 (UTC)
Per the title, the common name of "platform games" is "platformer", as seen in basically every reliable source used by Wikipedia. ~ Dissident93 ( talk) 03:37, 11 March 2016 (UTC)
Hello, the article confuses the conecpts of endless runner and auto runner. In an endless runner, the level has no end, and is sometimes generated procedurally. In an auto runner, the player does not control the character's scrolling, only jumping. An auto runner is not necessarily endless, as there may be predefined levels. And an endless runner is not necessarily an auto runner. -- 167.58.140.0 ( talk) 13:40, 16 December 2016 (UTC)
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§ Endless running game should be renamed. These are actually auto-runner games, that may or may not be endless. Mobygames correctly uses "auto-run", because this includes ("daring escape" and) "endless runner" games. German Wikipedia at de:Auto-Runner also correctly uses "Auto-Runner" and then states that if the route is not finite, "wird auch von einem Endless-Runner oder Infinite-Runner gesprochen". Eurogamer correctly writes about an "auto-runner" here; Pocket Gamer does this here. The section should be renamed to "Auto-runner game". Then Auto-runner, Auto-runner game, Auto-running, Autorun game, Autorunning, Autorunning game, Auto running, Auto running game, Auto run game, Auto runner, Auto runner game, Auto-run game, Autorunner game and Autorunner should be pointed to the section. Auto-running game, Endless running and Endless running game should be modified. And Autorun could become a disambiguation page for AutoRun and the renamed section, with Auto-run and Auto run pointing to the disambiguation page. -- 143.176.30.65 ( talk) 22:01, 6 February 2021 (UTC)
I think Little Nightmares and Little Nightmares II deserve to be mentioned, as contemporary high-profile representatives of the genre. I would also include Planet Alpha and Stela in the list, and would mention the games in chronological order. Kumagoro-42 ( talk) 17:34, 30 April 2022 (UTC)
Quite simply put, in common modern-day parlance, "platformer" is infinitely more commonly used when talking about these games. Obviously the article shouldn't be rewritten to exclusively use this term, since "platform game" was historically used, so it makes sense to use it in that case. But for the article title, I feel it should be the most commonly-used name for the genre, and in this case that is "platformer" fairly unambiguously. Harmonia per misericordia. OmegaFallon ( talk) 19:27, 17 February 2023 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: moved. ( closed by non-admin page mover) ❯❯❯ Raydann (Talk) 03:29, 26 September 2023 (UTC)
Platform game → Platformer – The genre is overwhelmingly called platformer not platform game. There have been many people on the talk page trying to propose moves but not formally doing it for years. Immanuelle ❤️💚💙 (talk to the cutest Wikipedian) 02:54, 19 September 2023 (UTC)
This is a major genre page, so changing the name based on a 2-1 vote is ridiculous. It needed to be done in a forum with more visibility.
Second, both terms are common. If I type "platform" into the App Store search box, the top result is "Platform game" and the next is "Platformer".
A change like this cascades out into pointless work renaming categories and, eventually, thousands of genre links in game articles, for absolutely no benefit. Dgpop ( talk) 14:44, 6 November 2023 (UTC)
Wow. Way to literally destroy a page that was written so well up to a couple weeks ago... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 151.67.161.15 ( talk) 06:23, 8 November 2023 (UTC)
I think this article needs some further clarification and sources cited to clearly define what "True 3D" is, as it contradicts itself.
In the section heading "True 3D", there is no clear definition of what "true 3D" actually is, just a vague description of giving "the player more control over the character and the camera". It goes on to talk about Geograph Seal and then Jumping Flash!, citing the Guinness World Record for "First platform videogame in true 3D" for the latter.
However, earlier in the section heading "Third Dimension", the article states "The earliest example of a true 3D platformer is a French computer game called Alpha Waves". Interestingly, it's here, and not under the "True 3D" heading, where we see a link to another wikipedia article, but it links to "3D computer graphics" and not a definition of what "true 3D" is this context. What's also interesting is that there is another, separate Guinness World Record to the previous one that isn't cited here for "First 3D platform videogame", which credits Alpha Waves (although it is cited on the game's wikipedia page).
How exactly GWR differentiates these two records is unclear.
This is clearly a contradiction, so which is it? Is Alpha Waves a "true 3D" platformer or not? If yes, why isn't it under the "True 3D" heading? If no, why does the article say it is "true 3D"? What does or doesn't make it "true 3D"? What even is the definition of a "true 3D platformer"? 124.169.24.7 ( talk) 01:36, 12 December 2023 (UTC)