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Could somebody please convert the forum post references in the wiki to real citations, so it doesn't reference another wiki? Thanks. atomicthumbs‽ ( talk) 03:50, 22 December 2007 (UTC)
This is claiming the Pandora will be the first to be powerful enough to run N64 emulators. This is incorrect; The PSP has a port of Daedalus that apparently runs several games well. 65.184.147.182 ( talk) 19:32, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
It is true that in theory the PSP is powerful enough to emulate the N64. You need custom firmware to run Daedalus, which is a very buggy n64 emulator that is still in the experimental stages.
But you guys are being kind of silly because the Nintendo DS is basically a glorified portable N64 with an extra screen. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.15.166.113 ( talk • contribs)
To "unsigned|75.15.166.113" Please argue about our ideas but stop personnal attacks. Don't talk about silliness, we are not talking about the same thing. Emulating a machine is NOT the same as comparing its architecture or performances with the host platform . Nintendo DS will probably *never* be able to emulate a N64. But it offers comparable performance with code written for it (ie Mario 64 DS). That's the difference between "to port" and "to emulate". Please verify your informations about emulation. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.65.23.142 ( talk) 15:36, 7 July 2008 (UTC)
I'm not trying to advertise the Pandora; rather, I'm attempting to create a Wikipedia article on it.
It's not vaporware, it's coming out in March or April. Engadget did an article on it, and it has significant differences from any handheld game console ever produced.
I intend to add more to the article (proper references to the actual forum posts, more information, etcetera) over the next few days, but I'm extremely busy at the moment. atomicthumbs‽ ( talk) 06:14, 22 December 2007 (UTC)
Err you do know the people posting on those forums are the people who are actually making this device don't you? What could be a better source than that? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.242.174.115 ( talk) 01:38, 22 March 2008 (UTC)
It will _NOT_ be opensource in any way beyond the OS (or maybe even parts of the OS, if there'll be closed kernel drivers), the hardware itself is _NOT_ open source! So it's not "fully" opensource! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.178.125.223 ( talk) 16:15, 5 January 2008 (UTC)
O Rly? Since you don't work for the people making the system or the SOC you have no idea, so stop speaking like you do. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.39.247.100 ( talk) 14:31, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
The "Arduino," is and example of Open Source hardware.
Somehow we should mention that zodttd has reported it running stably at 900 MHz —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.127.175.78 ( talk) 16:53, 15 May 2008 (UTC)
just after a fast search find a cite
http://zodttd.com/blog/zodttd/status_report_time_b-50_sid-6210576b47684b492b629e96fa788c31.html
-- Andri12 ( talk) 22:18, 15 May 2008 (UTC)
I think this might mean that unlike many other devices it won't become corrupted if there is an error when updating the firmware...? Is this the case? I'm sure there must be a more suitable way of saying it though? Barrylb ( talk) 03:45, 19 May 2008 (UTC)
Hardware developer MWeston confirmed that the "easter eggs" on his personal Pandora site were accurate and the Pandora will indeed have an integrated Bluetooth radio. Only his forum post [2] exists as proof at the moment, so I didn't include a confirmation link. If you read the whole thread [3] though, it's clearly not a joke. Candre23 ( talk) 12:25, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
The text says "The Pandora will have an existing software base due to having a package manager that will accept Debian packages for the ARMEL (little-endian ARM) architecture." However, TI specs claim the chip used is Big Endian. Jalwikip ( talk) 08:58, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
Lead developer Craig Rothwell has stated that preorders would only take place when the final units are within about four weeks of shipping. ref1 ref2 I would love to put the refs in the actual article, but Wikipedia still has a problem with forum posts as sources, even when those posts are made by the people involved. Candre23 ( talk) 21:33, 27 June 2008 (UTC)
Parden my french, but this thing is baddass. Is there any exact release date?-- 12.185.250.67 ( talk) 04:31, 29 July 2008 (UTC)
The battery life estimates on this page are extremely vague.
I realize this is by design since we don't know anything exact but there should be a little more information IMHO. It is easy to glean for instance that video battery life can potentially be quite a lot more than 10 hours even with brightness at 100%. I know this because PMP Player Advance on the PSP can easily decode 2000kbps h.264 video with 192kbps MP3 audio while running at only 66mhz. The resolution is 480x272, so the pixel data is only about one third of what it might be on the Pandora. So lets figure 3x66mhz just to get a wild guess how much performance would be needed to do something similar with higher-quality video, and you get 200mhz... A recent official Pandora blog entry noted that it gets about 8.5 hours of runtime at 500mhz with full brightness and sound on, with no power management. At less than half that (200mhz) battery life should be 15 hours, easily.
Besides this, the battery life at the stated speed (600mhz on this wikipedia entry) won't be anywhere near 10 hours. Maybe 8 at best considering it only gets 8.5 at 500mhz. But for old emulators and simple programs, such high speeds won't be necessary and 10+ hours should be easily attained.
What I suggest is that the battery life section is split up. It currently says:
"Approximately 10 hours of runtime for video / general applications and 100 hours for music playback"
More accurate would be:
Battery life:
This amount of information is important since battery life is a major consideration for someone considering a purchase, or in this case, a pre-order. If there's no objections I'll go ahead and add this information in the near future. 76.10.137.127 ( talk) 03:02, 10 August 2008 (UTC)
What is the current price of the consoles in USD? Wiki131wiki ( talk) 19:55, 26 August 2008 (UTC)
How many shoulder buttons are there? Are there only two (R and L)? or is there 4 (like a Playstation controller)? Akadewboy ( talk) 13:57, 14 September 2008 (UTC)
Firstly I feel that in the infobox the website specified it is
http://www.openpandora.org
Secondly I feel that the SD memory card spec should be more clear it says 64GB i assunme this means combined but someone could interpret it as each.
I would make these changes myself but I suck with wikicode.
Xor
24
talk to me 00:44, 14 October 2008 (UTC)
I strongly disagree with the recent request to turn the specifications section into prose. Having it be in list form makes it a lot more concise and I believe more useful. I can see no benefits to turning it into prose. Esn ( talk) 01:54, 25 October 2008 (UTC)
While reliable sourced criticisms and controversies can be included in this article, criticism sections themselves are generally discouraged. See WP:NPOV and WP:CRIT for further information on criticism and controversy sections. Mahjongg ( talk) 17:45, 3 November 2008 (UTC)
None of the supplied criticisms are factually accurate. The above specifications are correct and have been verified by the dozen or so developers who posses actual Pandora boards. Pictures and video of the final, fully populated, fully functional, production-ready PCB are available on the manufacturer's website. Pictures and video of the actual LCD and a rapid-prototyped version of the case are also present. The Pandora runs a customized version of Linux and follows all necessary requirements of the GNU GPL. Licensing of user-created programs is, of course, up to the users who create them. The internal financial administration of a private corporation falls well outside the scope of a Wikipedia article. Allegations of failure of teh GP2X as a Linux-based handheld are both inaccurate and irrelevant. Criticism section removed again. Further trolling will be reported. Candre23 ( talk) 22:38, 3 November 2008 (UTC)
I just tagged the criticism section as original research, and waited for someone else to decide whether or not to delete it. It was also full of errors concerning the use of spaces after comma and punctuation marks. Hopefully the poster will not try to edit it in again, as I saw it quite useless. NilsH ( talk) 16:31, 4 November 2008 (UTC)
"Next batch is going to be available for pre-order at the end of December, 2008[2] with a shipment around March, 2009[3]. "
This is unlikely to still be true, but I hesitate to remove cited information. These dates were set when a November 30th ship date was still assumed for batch one. This has been postponed until at least late December, more likely January sometime.
I'm sure Craigix has said that he's not taking any more orders (even for spares in batch 1) until the first batch has fully shipped with no problems.
I'm not sure how to state that in the article, though. APL ( talk) 18:53, 24 November 2008 (UTC)
I can't tell if this is a more subtle attempt at the vandalism we've been seeing this week, or an honest, good-faith edit, but I reverted it anyway because it's false.
1) Only orders from the british store (UK and USA) were refunded.
2) All posts from the developers have indicated a ship date of January or February.
APL ( talk) 19:06, 23 December 2008 (UTC)
Should the article be edited to include information that Pandora is a possible hoax? It seems more and more likely every day. Take a look at http://www.gp32x.com/board/index.php?showtopic=46180&st=315 .. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.78.184.12 ( talk) 14:24, 18 January 2009 (UTC)
Damn you Dietrich!! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.192.246.138 ( talk) 23:27, 29 January 2009 (UTC)
I've reverted an edit trying to claim (uncited) that Pandora's initial run had been cut in half, and that people only received partial refunds. In fact, a large portion of people (Credit Card orders from UK and USA mostly) were given full refunds (In British Pounds) and asked to re-order if they still wanted a Pandora. It was recently announced that they'll only manufacture the ones that have been paid for by the (still non-finalized) manufacturing date, so perhaps that's what the editor was thinking. Or perhaps he was just yet another hater trying to add in false information. APL ( talk) 14:15, 20 January 2009 (UTC)
Can someone please cite a reliable source that indicates the Pandora will be an eighth-genreation console, at the moment it is completely subjective. For the time being I have removed this claim in line with the Wikipedia:Verifiability policy.
It's absolutely not 8th generation. It's also absolutely not 7th generation either, which it's tagged as. Not being a console means it doesn't even belong anywhere near those tags. Being able to run emulation doesn't qualify it either, otherwise every computer in the last ten years or more qualifies to some degree or other. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.4.83.207 ( talk) 11:08, 13 January 2012 (UTC)
Removed, see unofficial blog, there is obvious progress being made. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.215.216.81 ( talk) 15:20, 12 September 2009 (UTC)
Some one added it in again. I took it out. 90.194.119.248 ( talk) 18:25, 22 September 2009 (UTC)
Why is the Pandora not an example of Vaporware? The argument "obvious progress being made" does not count. There was always progress being made on "Duke Nukem Forever" as well. There were many screenshots and videos, and the game was always "close to release", yet it was never released. Same with the Pandora. Check out the Wikipedia article on Vaporware, and you will find that the Pandora matches the description. In fact, it may well match the "Obsolete on delivery" section, seeing how the claim that it is the most powerful gaming handheld is already highly questionable. I vote to add a sentence to the "Development History" section stating "The Pandora is a possible example for Vaporware." -- Ruebezahl ( talk) 05:34, 18 November 2009 (UTC)
The Pandora has been in limbo for a long time. All the way up to its release it has been redone. The board has been revised several times (see No videos, no pics, but a very comprehensive Status Report :)). The key mat was revised a few times (see Mixing up buttons). The case was revised (see The last missing pieces are coming together). If you click through many of the blog posts you will find a ton of revisions, and many of these were revisions done in the "manufacturing" or "mass production" stage. This isn't even the same product people were shown when they "pre-ordered" it. It deserves some sort of link to similar products. It easily falls under the "Development Hell" category.
"'Development hell' is media-industry jargon for a film, television screenplay, computer program,[1] concept, or idea becoming and remaining stuck in development and taking an especially long time to start production, if ever." Development Hell
Although vaporware is an interesting category.
"Vaporware describes a product, usually software, that has been announced by a developer during or before its development, if there is significant doubt whether the product will actually be released.[1]" Vaporware
As for calling either of these "wishful thinking" because someone believes the Pandora will or won't be released, the delay from pre-orders and the initial shipping estimate has been over a year.
"Wishful thinking is the formation of beliefs and making decisions according to what might be pleasing to imagine instead of by appealing to evidence or rationality." wishful thinking
Also, change the picture. It doesn't look like that. And, the blog posts are likely to change the links, but you can click on the blog here" 141.225.22.73 ( talk) 00:53, 9 December 2009 (UTC)
For anyone not familiar with See also sections, I recommend reading WP:SEEALSO. Based on that guideline, I have removed anything already referred to in the article. I also removed Open source hardware because I don't believe the Pandora is open source hardware, as well as Cambridge Z88, Dingoo, and Atari Portfolio as they don't appear to have any significance here, other than that they're all devices older than the Pandora and that the older two might have influenced the design of the Pandora. Lastly, I removed OmapZoom because (assuming the Pandora uses it) it should be included somewhere in the article instead. Eugeniu B +1 19:42, 27 December 2009 (UTC)
Seriously. There are already three links on the page that contain the source for that information.
Shame on both of you for removing sourced, accurate information.
If you're not happy with exactly how explicitly the source is identified it would have been nearly as easy to add the footnote yourself. I'm not asking you to do research here, it would have required an honestly trivial effort to click the link, especially after I pointed out exactly what link was the source. (If it wasn't the obvious one to check, anyway.)
While I could understand it if it required a non-trivial amount of research beyond clicking a single link, in this case I honestly don't understand the motive for repeatedly removing that sentence. APL ( talk) 04:34, 3 February 2010 (UTC)
Are any of the sources for this article reliable secondary sources? Or is this just company PR? Angryapathy ( talk) 13:17, 23 March 2010 (UTC)
I guess I will be as specific as possible, so that editors are not confused by innuendo. I think the size of the article is disproportionate to the coverage in sources, and much of the article is undue weight. If an editor has to scrounge through message boards in order to find a good portion of information about a product, than that information is probably unnecessary. It seems like this article more original research for a product that might come out this year. Unless it gets postponed until next year. Or the year after that. The depth of coverage on WP is overblown in proportion to the impact of the product. It does not exist commerically, has gotten very little coverage, and has no signs of being mass-produced any time soon. Angryapathy ( talk) 17:23, 25 March 2010 (UTC)
The second paragraph of the history section, except the first sentence, should be deleted. Now that the product has been launched, it is not necessary to say "so and so said in a forum it would be released on this date" and "so and so said that that was an optimistic estimate on a forum" and "so and so issued a revised estimate in a forum," etc. Honestly, I don't know if that level of detail was ever appropriate for an encyclopedia article. "[Date] has been announced for the launch of the product, but several announced launch dates have been missed, going back to [Earliest announced launch date.]" would have sufficed. Now it is just silly. 140.163.0.5 ( talk) 14:00, 13 October 2010 (UTC)
I cannot find in this article a straight-forward answer to whether this console has been released to the public. Can anyone familiar with the sources help? Angryapathy ( talk) 15:55, 29 March 2012 (UTC)
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Could somebody please convert the forum post references in the wiki to real citations, so it doesn't reference another wiki? Thanks. atomicthumbs‽ ( talk) 03:50, 22 December 2007 (UTC)
This is claiming the Pandora will be the first to be powerful enough to run N64 emulators. This is incorrect; The PSP has a port of Daedalus that apparently runs several games well. 65.184.147.182 ( talk) 19:32, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
It is true that in theory the PSP is powerful enough to emulate the N64. You need custom firmware to run Daedalus, which is a very buggy n64 emulator that is still in the experimental stages.
But you guys are being kind of silly because the Nintendo DS is basically a glorified portable N64 with an extra screen. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.15.166.113 ( talk • contribs)
To "unsigned|75.15.166.113" Please argue about our ideas but stop personnal attacks. Don't talk about silliness, we are not talking about the same thing. Emulating a machine is NOT the same as comparing its architecture or performances with the host platform . Nintendo DS will probably *never* be able to emulate a N64. But it offers comparable performance with code written for it (ie Mario 64 DS). That's the difference between "to port" and "to emulate". Please verify your informations about emulation. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.65.23.142 ( talk) 15:36, 7 July 2008 (UTC)
I'm not trying to advertise the Pandora; rather, I'm attempting to create a Wikipedia article on it.
It's not vaporware, it's coming out in March or April. Engadget did an article on it, and it has significant differences from any handheld game console ever produced.
I intend to add more to the article (proper references to the actual forum posts, more information, etcetera) over the next few days, but I'm extremely busy at the moment. atomicthumbs‽ ( talk) 06:14, 22 December 2007 (UTC)
Err you do know the people posting on those forums are the people who are actually making this device don't you? What could be a better source than that? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.242.174.115 ( talk) 01:38, 22 March 2008 (UTC)
It will _NOT_ be opensource in any way beyond the OS (or maybe even parts of the OS, if there'll be closed kernel drivers), the hardware itself is _NOT_ open source! So it's not "fully" opensource! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.178.125.223 ( talk) 16:15, 5 January 2008 (UTC)
O Rly? Since you don't work for the people making the system or the SOC you have no idea, so stop speaking like you do. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.39.247.100 ( talk) 14:31, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
The "Arduino," is and example of Open Source hardware.
Somehow we should mention that zodttd has reported it running stably at 900 MHz —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.127.175.78 ( talk) 16:53, 15 May 2008 (UTC)
just after a fast search find a cite
http://zodttd.com/blog/zodttd/status_report_time_b-50_sid-6210576b47684b492b629e96fa788c31.html
-- Andri12 ( talk) 22:18, 15 May 2008 (UTC)
I think this might mean that unlike many other devices it won't become corrupted if there is an error when updating the firmware...? Is this the case? I'm sure there must be a more suitable way of saying it though? Barrylb ( talk) 03:45, 19 May 2008 (UTC)
Hardware developer MWeston confirmed that the "easter eggs" on his personal Pandora site were accurate and the Pandora will indeed have an integrated Bluetooth radio. Only his forum post [2] exists as proof at the moment, so I didn't include a confirmation link. If you read the whole thread [3] though, it's clearly not a joke. Candre23 ( talk) 12:25, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
The text says "The Pandora will have an existing software base due to having a package manager that will accept Debian packages for the ARMEL (little-endian ARM) architecture." However, TI specs claim the chip used is Big Endian. Jalwikip ( talk) 08:58, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
Lead developer Craig Rothwell has stated that preorders would only take place when the final units are within about four weeks of shipping. ref1 ref2 I would love to put the refs in the actual article, but Wikipedia still has a problem with forum posts as sources, even when those posts are made by the people involved. Candre23 ( talk) 21:33, 27 June 2008 (UTC)
Parden my french, but this thing is baddass. Is there any exact release date?-- 12.185.250.67 ( talk) 04:31, 29 July 2008 (UTC)
The battery life estimates on this page are extremely vague.
I realize this is by design since we don't know anything exact but there should be a little more information IMHO. It is easy to glean for instance that video battery life can potentially be quite a lot more than 10 hours even with brightness at 100%. I know this because PMP Player Advance on the PSP can easily decode 2000kbps h.264 video with 192kbps MP3 audio while running at only 66mhz. The resolution is 480x272, so the pixel data is only about one third of what it might be on the Pandora. So lets figure 3x66mhz just to get a wild guess how much performance would be needed to do something similar with higher-quality video, and you get 200mhz... A recent official Pandora blog entry noted that it gets about 8.5 hours of runtime at 500mhz with full brightness and sound on, with no power management. At less than half that (200mhz) battery life should be 15 hours, easily.
Besides this, the battery life at the stated speed (600mhz on this wikipedia entry) won't be anywhere near 10 hours. Maybe 8 at best considering it only gets 8.5 at 500mhz. But for old emulators and simple programs, such high speeds won't be necessary and 10+ hours should be easily attained.
What I suggest is that the battery life section is split up. It currently says:
"Approximately 10 hours of runtime for video / general applications and 100 hours for music playback"
More accurate would be:
Battery life:
This amount of information is important since battery life is a major consideration for someone considering a purchase, or in this case, a pre-order. If there's no objections I'll go ahead and add this information in the near future. 76.10.137.127 ( talk) 03:02, 10 August 2008 (UTC)
What is the current price of the consoles in USD? Wiki131wiki ( talk) 19:55, 26 August 2008 (UTC)
How many shoulder buttons are there? Are there only two (R and L)? or is there 4 (like a Playstation controller)? Akadewboy ( talk) 13:57, 14 September 2008 (UTC)
Firstly I feel that in the infobox the website specified it is
http://www.openpandora.org
Secondly I feel that the SD memory card spec should be more clear it says 64GB i assunme this means combined but someone could interpret it as each.
I would make these changes myself but I suck with wikicode.
Xor
24
talk to me 00:44, 14 October 2008 (UTC)
I strongly disagree with the recent request to turn the specifications section into prose. Having it be in list form makes it a lot more concise and I believe more useful. I can see no benefits to turning it into prose. Esn ( talk) 01:54, 25 October 2008 (UTC)
While reliable sourced criticisms and controversies can be included in this article, criticism sections themselves are generally discouraged. See WP:NPOV and WP:CRIT for further information on criticism and controversy sections. Mahjongg ( talk) 17:45, 3 November 2008 (UTC)
None of the supplied criticisms are factually accurate. The above specifications are correct and have been verified by the dozen or so developers who posses actual Pandora boards. Pictures and video of the final, fully populated, fully functional, production-ready PCB are available on the manufacturer's website. Pictures and video of the actual LCD and a rapid-prototyped version of the case are also present. The Pandora runs a customized version of Linux and follows all necessary requirements of the GNU GPL. Licensing of user-created programs is, of course, up to the users who create them. The internal financial administration of a private corporation falls well outside the scope of a Wikipedia article. Allegations of failure of teh GP2X as a Linux-based handheld are both inaccurate and irrelevant. Criticism section removed again. Further trolling will be reported. Candre23 ( talk) 22:38, 3 November 2008 (UTC)
I just tagged the criticism section as original research, and waited for someone else to decide whether or not to delete it. It was also full of errors concerning the use of spaces after comma and punctuation marks. Hopefully the poster will not try to edit it in again, as I saw it quite useless. NilsH ( talk) 16:31, 4 November 2008 (UTC)
"Next batch is going to be available for pre-order at the end of December, 2008[2] with a shipment around March, 2009[3]. "
This is unlikely to still be true, but I hesitate to remove cited information. These dates were set when a November 30th ship date was still assumed for batch one. This has been postponed until at least late December, more likely January sometime.
I'm sure Craigix has said that he's not taking any more orders (even for spares in batch 1) until the first batch has fully shipped with no problems.
I'm not sure how to state that in the article, though. APL ( talk) 18:53, 24 November 2008 (UTC)
I can't tell if this is a more subtle attempt at the vandalism we've been seeing this week, or an honest, good-faith edit, but I reverted it anyway because it's false.
1) Only orders from the british store (UK and USA) were refunded.
2) All posts from the developers have indicated a ship date of January or February.
APL ( talk) 19:06, 23 December 2008 (UTC)
Should the article be edited to include information that Pandora is a possible hoax? It seems more and more likely every day. Take a look at http://www.gp32x.com/board/index.php?showtopic=46180&st=315 .. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.78.184.12 ( talk) 14:24, 18 January 2009 (UTC)
Damn you Dietrich!! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.192.246.138 ( talk) 23:27, 29 January 2009 (UTC)
I've reverted an edit trying to claim (uncited) that Pandora's initial run had been cut in half, and that people only received partial refunds. In fact, a large portion of people (Credit Card orders from UK and USA mostly) were given full refunds (In British Pounds) and asked to re-order if they still wanted a Pandora. It was recently announced that they'll only manufacture the ones that have been paid for by the (still non-finalized) manufacturing date, so perhaps that's what the editor was thinking. Or perhaps he was just yet another hater trying to add in false information. APL ( talk) 14:15, 20 January 2009 (UTC)
Can someone please cite a reliable source that indicates the Pandora will be an eighth-genreation console, at the moment it is completely subjective. For the time being I have removed this claim in line with the Wikipedia:Verifiability policy.
It's absolutely not 8th generation. It's also absolutely not 7th generation either, which it's tagged as. Not being a console means it doesn't even belong anywhere near those tags. Being able to run emulation doesn't qualify it either, otherwise every computer in the last ten years or more qualifies to some degree or other. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.4.83.207 ( talk) 11:08, 13 January 2012 (UTC)
Removed, see unofficial blog, there is obvious progress being made. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.215.216.81 ( talk) 15:20, 12 September 2009 (UTC)
Some one added it in again. I took it out. 90.194.119.248 ( talk) 18:25, 22 September 2009 (UTC)
Why is the Pandora not an example of Vaporware? The argument "obvious progress being made" does not count. There was always progress being made on "Duke Nukem Forever" as well. There were many screenshots and videos, and the game was always "close to release", yet it was never released. Same with the Pandora. Check out the Wikipedia article on Vaporware, and you will find that the Pandora matches the description. In fact, it may well match the "Obsolete on delivery" section, seeing how the claim that it is the most powerful gaming handheld is already highly questionable. I vote to add a sentence to the "Development History" section stating "The Pandora is a possible example for Vaporware." -- Ruebezahl ( talk) 05:34, 18 November 2009 (UTC)
The Pandora has been in limbo for a long time. All the way up to its release it has been redone. The board has been revised several times (see No videos, no pics, but a very comprehensive Status Report :)). The key mat was revised a few times (see Mixing up buttons). The case was revised (see The last missing pieces are coming together). If you click through many of the blog posts you will find a ton of revisions, and many of these were revisions done in the "manufacturing" or "mass production" stage. This isn't even the same product people were shown when they "pre-ordered" it. It deserves some sort of link to similar products. It easily falls under the "Development Hell" category.
"'Development hell' is media-industry jargon for a film, television screenplay, computer program,[1] concept, or idea becoming and remaining stuck in development and taking an especially long time to start production, if ever." Development Hell
Although vaporware is an interesting category.
"Vaporware describes a product, usually software, that has been announced by a developer during or before its development, if there is significant doubt whether the product will actually be released.[1]" Vaporware
As for calling either of these "wishful thinking" because someone believes the Pandora will or won't be released, the delay from pre-orders and the initial shipping estimate has been over a year.
"Wishful thinking is the formation of beliefs and making decisions according to what might be pleasing to imagine instead of by appealing to evidence or rationality." wishful thinking
Also, change the picture. It doesn't look like that. And, the blog posts are likely to change the links, but you can click on the blog here" 141.225.22.73 ( talk) 00:53, 9 December 2009 (UTC)
For anyone not familiar with See also sections, I recommend reading WP:SEEALSO. Based on that guideline, I have removed anything already referred to in the article. I also removed Open source hardware because I don't believe the Pandora is open source hardware, as well as Cambridge Z88, Dingoo, and Atari Portfolio as they don't appear to have any significance here, other than that they're all devices older than the Pandora and that the older two might have influenced the design of the Pandora. Lastly, I removed OmapZoom because (assuming the Pandora uses it) it should be included somewhere in the article instead. Eugeniu B +1 19:42, 27 December 2009 (UTC)
Seriously. There are already three links on the page that contain the source for that information.
Shame on both of you for removing sourced, accurate information.
If you're not happy with exactly how explicitly the source is identified it would have been nearly as easy to add the footnote yourself. I'm not asking you to do research here, it would have required an honestly trivial effort to click the link, especially after I pointed out exactly what link was the source. (If it wasn't the obvious one to check, anyway.)
While I could understand it if it required a non-trivial amount of research beyond clicking a single link, in this case I honestly don't understand the motive for repeatedly removing that sentence. APL ( talk) 04:34, 3 February 2010 (UTC)
Are any of the sources for this article reliable secondary sources? Or is this just company PR? Angryapathy ( talk) 13:17, 23 March 2010 (UTC)
I guess I will be as specific as possible, so that editors are not confused by innuendo. I think the size of the article is disproportionate to the coverage in sources, and much of the article is undue weight. If an editor has to scrounge through message boards in order to find a good portion of information about a product, than that information is probably unnecessary. It seems like this article more original research for a product that might come out this year. Unless it gets postponed until next year. Or the year after that. The depth of coverage on WP is overblown in proportion to the impact of the product. It does not exist commerically, has gotten very little coverage, and has no signs of being mass-produced any time soon. Angryapathy ( talk) 17:23, 25 March 2010 (UTC)
The second paragraph of the history section, except the first sentence, should be deleted. Now that the product has been launched, it is not necessary to say "so and so said in a forum it would be released on this date" and "so and so said that that was an optimistic estimate on a forum" and "so and so issued a revised estimate in a forum," etc. Honestly, I don't know if that level of detail was ever appropriate for an encyclopedia article. "[Date] has been announced for the launch of the product, but several announced launch dates have been missed, going back to [Earliest announced launch date.]" would have sufficed. Now it is just silly. 140.163.0.5 ( talk) 14:00, 13 October 2010 (UTC)
I cannot find in this article a straight-forward answer to whether this console has been released to the public. Can anyone familiar with the sources help? Angryapathy ( talk) 15:55, 29 March 2012 (UTC)
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