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This article is within the scope of WikiProject Iran, an attempt to build a comprehensive and detailed guide to articles related to
Iran on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please
join the project where you can contribute to the
discussions and help with our
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This article is within the scope of WikiProject Classical Greece and Rome, a group of contributors interested in Wikipedia's articles on classics. If you would like to join the WikiProject or learn how to contribute, please see our
project page. If you need assistance from a classicist, please see our
talk page.Classical Greece and RomeWikipedia:WikiProject Classical Greece and RomeTemplate:WikiProject Classical Greece and RomeClassical Greece and Rome articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Ancient Near East, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
Ancient Near East related articles on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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Orontes I is within the scope of WikiProject Armenia, an attempt to improve and better organize information in articles related or pertaining to
Armenia and
Armenians. If you would like to contribute or collaborate, you could edit the article attached to this page or visit the
project page for further information.ArmeniaWikipedia:WikiProject ArmeniaTemplate:WikiProject ArmeniaArmenian articles
If you want to understand what the problem really is with the chronologies, check
Moses of Chorene article, and the difference between (for example) the King
Vahagn article and the Armenian wikipedia version of the same article -
hy:Վահագն - the dates are completely off (first is 6th BC, second is during the Artaxiad dynasty of the 4th BC - this is due to Moses Chorenis History book, which is now deemed unreliable). Probably the Tigranes is the same, as someone wrote the article referring erroneously to
Tigranes I. --
92slim (
talk)
01:53, 19 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Orontes/Yervand in lead
I'm responding mainly to
Aṭlas's good faith edit
here. I added the Armenian name of Orontes (Armenian: Yervand) because he played a crucial role in the history of the Armenian people, to the point in which many historians claim that Armenia's capital city, Yerevan, may be named after him. It has since become a very popular name in Armenian and many streets and villages have been named after him. So per
WP:OTHERNAMES, his significance remains a key factor in keeping his Armenian name there.
Étienne Dolet (
talk)
03:39, 18 October 2016 (UTC)reply
Bactrian? Armenian?
Per, Encyclopaedia Iranica, "Orontes, a Bactrian, son of Artasouras/Artasyras (OGI no. 264. 4f.), satrap of Armenia under Artaxerxes II Mnemon (Xenophon, Anabasis 3.5.17; Pompeius Trogus, prolog. 10), who in 401 B.C.E. had given him his daughter Rhodogoune in marriage (Xenophon, Anabasis 2.4.8; 3.4.13; Plutarch, Artox. 27.7; OGI no. 391–2) and so obliged him to the royal house. In two inscriptions of king Antiochus I of Commagene (ca. 69–34 B.C.E.), to be found on his monument at Nemrut dağı (OGI no. 391–2), Orontes, called Aroandes (son of Artasouras and husband of Artaxerxes’s daughter Rhodogoune), is reckoned, among others, as an ancestor of the “Orontids” ruling over Commagene, who traced back their family to the great Achaemenid kings. According to Plutarch (Arat. 3.5) he resembled Alcmaeon, the son of Amphiaraus, in appearance." --
Kansas Bear (
talk)
21:03, 3 July 2020 (UTC)reply
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Lead: Per
MOS:LEADLENGTH, the lead is a bit long. Although the figures in that table are just suggestions, for the length of the article, you might want to consider trimming the lead just a bit.
Lead: The second, third, and fourth sentence in the first paragraph in the lead should be moved to the second paragraph in the lead. The first paragraph in the lead should then summarize the most important things Orontes I did.
Question: there's no estimated time for when Orontes I was born? My assumption is no, since he only first appears in records in 401 BC.
Lead: This led to Tiribazus' dismissal and imprisonment. This was followed by— Having two consecutive sentences start with "this" seems a bit repetitive to me. Could you possibly find a way to reword those?
Lead: The terms of the treaty was that Evagoras was obligated to pay tribute to the Persian king, but as a subordinate king rather than a slave.— Too specific for the lead, I suggest removing it.
Lead: Orontes later reappears in 362/1 BC, as the hyparch of Mysia — "hyparch" in this sentence links to "satrap". What's the difference between the two?
Lead According to the classical Greek historian Diodorus Siculus (died c. 30 BC), Orontes thought that he would be greatly rewarded if he did so at such a critical point. — Too specific for the lead IMO
I'm noticing that a lot of sentences that are in the lead are also in the body with the exact same wording. I don't think that there's anything wrong per se with that, but you do end up getting more detail in the lead than a lead is supposed to have, and it does have the feeling of déjà vu. What's your opinion: should these duplicate sentences be reworded or should they stay as-is?
Background, second paragraph— why is the claim supported by his marriage? And how does that marriage show that Orontes was probably descended from Hydarnes from his maternal line?
Unfortunately the source doesn't say, I assume he couldn't get married into the royal family if he wasn't of high descent. As for the maternal line bit, it's because Hydarnes was Persian, so the author states that Orontes couldnt have been descended from him through his paternal line, as it was Bactrian. I've adjusted that bit to make it more clear. --
HistoryofIran (
talk)
22:35, 15 April 2024 (UTC)reply
Expedition to Cyprus— when he as satrap of Armenia harassed the Ten Thousand— How did he "harass" them?
Coinage— It has been suggested that the gold coins minted at Lampsacus were by Orontes due to two reasons.. So did Orontes design the coins himself? Did he mint them? Or did they just have his face on them?
I don't see what the second paragraph in the Coinage section has to do with coinage, excepting the last line of that. Why is that description there?
File:Evagoras-Stater 733597 C.jpg— Looks good and relevant
File:Asia Minor in the Greco-Roman period - general map - regions and main settlements.jpg— Relevant, usage looks good. I don't see a lot of borders on that map. Not really a problem, just slightly confusing because I'm not sure where each country ends and starts.
File:Orontes I.jpg—Looks good and relevant. There looks like a lot of coins of Orontes I
[1], have you considered doing a gallery?
I've added two more relevant images that appear in the text, though I am not that impressed by the Coin section, I plan on expanding it for a future FA with hopefully more sources/info at my disposal. --
HistoryofIran (
talk)
22:46, 2 May 2024 (UTC)reply
Overall: Image usage and relevancy looks good; just a few comments
@
Relativity: Sorry that this took this long, just a lot of irl stuff and stuff in Wikipedia which I had to tend to. What are your thoughts on the current state of the article? Take your time of course. --
HistoryofIran (
talk)
22:48, 2 May 2024 (UTC)reply
@
HistoryofIran: Hey! So far, with the improvements that you've made, it's looking better. I need to finish the source spot check until I can finalize that the criteria are met. My only concern is still the lead. It's really long for the article size. According to
Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Lead section, a general rule of thumb is to not have more than four paragraphs in the lead. Since that's just a general rule of thumb, I can be more lenient with the amount of content in the lead, but IMO there's too much. Otherwise, looking good! I am going to have a busy next couple of days, so don't count on the review being finished incredibly soon, but I'll try to make this my first priority on Wikipedia. I'll place the GAR on hold for now. Cheers, and let me know if you have any questions Relativity ⚡️23:55, 2 May 2024 (UTC)reply
I'm sorry, but I'm not sure what else to trim, I feel like its pretty important info, considering his distinguished career. Since it's a general rule of thumb, can't an exception be made? Not putting them on the same level, but
Cleopatra has a even longer lead, and it's FA.
HistoryofIran (
talk)
23:18, 18 May 2024 (UTC)reply
@
HistoryofIran: That was mostly just a suggestion. I didn't really need it to be shortened for this to pass, just maybe keep that in mind for the future. I fixed one minor grammatical thing, and I think that it looks good! Great work! Relativity ⚡️21:30, 3 June 2024 (UTC)reply
Note: this represents where the article stands relative to the
Good Article criteria. Criteria marked are unassessed
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to
join the project and
contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the
documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Iran, an attempt to build a comprehensive and detailed guide to articles related to
Iran on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please
join the project where you can contribute to the
discussions and help with our
open tasks.IranWikipedia:WikiProject IranTemplate:WikiProject IranIran articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Classical Greece and Rome, a group of contributors interested in Wikipedia's articles on classics. If you would like to join the WikiProject or learn how to contribute, please see our
project page. If you need assistance from a classicist, please see our
talk page.Classical Greece and RomeWikipedia:WikiProject Classical Greece and RomeTemplate:WikiProject Classical Greece and RomeClassical Greece and Rome articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Ancient Near East, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
Ancient Near East related articles on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Ancient Near EastWikipedia:WikiProject Ancient Near EastTemplate:WikiProject Ancient Near EastAncient Near East articles
Orontes I is within the scope of WikiProject Armenia, an attempt to improve and better organize information in articles related or pertaining to
Armenia and
Armenians. If you would like to contribute or collaborate, you could edit the article attached to this page or visit the
project page for further information.ArmeniaWikipedia:WikiProject ArmeniaTemplate:WikiProject ArmeniaArmenian articles
If you want to understand what the problem really is with the chronologies, check
Moses of Chorene article, and the difference between (for example) the King
Vahagn article and the Armenian wikipedia version of the same article -
hy:Վահագն - the dates are completely off (first is 6th BC, second is during the Artaxiad dynasty of the 4th BC - this is due to Moses Chorenis History book, which is now deemed unreliable). Probably the Tigranes is the same, as someone wrote the article referring erroneously to
Tigranes I. --
92slim (
talk)
01:53, 19 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Orontes/Yervand in lead
I'm responding mainly to
Aṭlas's good faith edit
here. I added the Armenian name of Orontes (Armenian: Yervand) because he played a crucial role in the history of the Armenian people, to the point in which many historians claim that Armenia's capital city, Yerevan, may be named after him. It has since become a very popular name in Armenian and many streets and villages have been named after him. So per
WP:OTHERNAMES, his significance remains a key factor in keeping his Armenian name there.
Étienne Dolet (
talk)
03:39, 18 October 2016 (UTC)reply
Bactrian? Armenian?
Per, Encyclopaedia Iranica, "Orontes, a Bactrian, son of Artasouras/Artasyras (OGI no. 264. 4f.), satrap of Armenia under Artaxerxes II Mnemon (Xenophon, Anabasis 3.5.17; Pompeius Trogus, prolog. 10), who in 401 B.C.E. had given him his daughter Rhodogoune in marriage (Xenophon, Anabasis 2.4.8; 3.4.13; Plutarch, Artox. 27.7; OGI no. 391–2) and so obliged him to the royal house. In two inscriptions of king Antiochus I of Commagene (ca. 69–34 B.C.E.), to be found on his monument at Nemrut dağı (OGI no. 391–2), Orontes, called Aroandes (son of Artasouras and husband of Artaxerxes’s daughter Rhodogoune), is reckoned, among others, as an ancestor of the “Orontids” ruling over Commagene, who traced back their family to the great Achaemenid kings. According to Plutarch (Arat. 3.5) he resembled Alcmaeon, the son of Amphiaraus, in appearance." --
Kansas Bear (
talk)
21:03, 3 July 2020 (UTC)reply
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Lead: Per
MOS:LEADLENGTH, the lead is a bit long. Although the figures in that table are just suggestions, for the length of the article, you might want to consider trimming the lead just a bit.
Lead: The second, third, and fourth sentence in the first paragraph in the lead should be moved to the second paragraph in the lead. The first paragraph in the lead should then summarize the most important things Orontes I did.
Question: there's no estimated time for when Orontes I was born? My assumption is no, since he only first appears in records in 401 BC.
Lead: This led to Tiribazus' dismissal and imprisonment. This was followed by— Having two consecutive sentences start with "this" seems a bit repetitive to me. Could you possibly find a way to reword those?
Lead: The terms of the treaty was that Evagoras was obligated to pay tribute to the Persian king, but as a subordinate king rather than a slave.— Too specific for the lead, I suggest removing it.
Lead: Orontes later reappears in 362/1 BC, as the hyparch of Mysia — "hyparch" in this sentence links to "satrap". What's the difference between the two?
Lead According to the classical Greek historian Diodorus Siculus (died c. 30 BC), Orontes thought that he would be greatly rewarded if he did so at such a critical point. — Too specific for the lead IMO
I'm noticing that a lot of sentences that are in the lead are also in the body with the exact same wording. I don't think that there's anything wrong per se with that, but you do end up getting more detail in the lead than a lead is supposed to have, and it does have the feeling of déjà vu. What's your opinion: should these duplicate sentences be reworded or should they stay as-is?
Background, second paragraph— why is the claim supported by his marriage? And how does that marriage show that Orontes was probably descended from Hydarnes from his maternal line?
Unfortunately the source doesn't say, I assume he couldn't get married into the royal family if he wasn't of high descent. As for the maternal line bit, it's because Hydarnes was Persian, so the author states that Orontes couldnt have been descended from him through his paternal line, as it was Bactrian. I've adjusted that bit to make it more clear. --
HistoryofIran (
talk)
22:35, 15 April 2024 (UTC)reply
Expedition to Cyprus— when he as satrap of Armenia harassed the Ten Thousand— How did he "harass" them?
Coinage— It has been suggested that the gold coins minted at Lampsacus were by Orontes due to two reasons.. So did Orontes design the coins himself? Did he mint them? Or did they just have his face on them?
I don't see what the second paragraph in the Coinage section has to do with coinage, excepting the last line of that. Why is that description there?
File:Evagoras-Stater 733597 C.jpg— Looks good and relevant
File:Asia Minor in the Greco-Roman period - general map - regions and main settlements.jpg— Relevant, usage looks good. I don't see a lot of borders on that map. Not really a problem, just slightly confusing because I'm not sure where each country ends and starts.
File:Orontes I.jpg—Looks good and relevant. There looks like a lot of coins of Orontes I
[1], have you considered doing a gallery?
I've added two more relevant images that appear in the text, though I am not that impressed by the Coin section, I plan on expanding it for a future FA with hopefully more sources/info at my disposal. --
HistoryofIran (
talk)
22:46, 2 May 2024 (UTC)reply
Overall: Image usage and relevancy looks good; just a few comments
@
Relativity: Sorry that this took this long, just a lot of irl stuff and stuff in Wikipedia which I had to tend to. What are your thoughts on the current state of the article? Take your time of course. --
HistoryofIran (
talk)
22:48, 2 May 2024 (UTC)reply
@
HistoryofIran: Hey! So far, with the improvements that you've made, it's looking better. I need to finish the source spot check until I can finalize that the criteria are met. My only concern is still the lead. It's really long for the article size. According to
Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Lead section, a general rule of thumb is to not have more than four paragraphs in the lead. Since that's just a general rule of thumb, I can be more lenient with the amount of content in the lead, but IMO there's too much. Otherwise, looking good! I am going to have a busy next couple of days, so don't count on the review being finished incredibly soon, but I'll try to make this my first priority on Wikipedia. I'll place the GAR on hold for now. Cheers, and let me know if you have any questions Relativity ⚡️23:55, 2 May 2024 (UTC)reply
I'm sorry, but I'm not sure what else to trim, I feel like its pretty important info, considering his distinguished career. Since it's a general rule of thumb, can't an exception be made? Not putting them on the same level, but
Cleopatra has a even longer lead, and it's FA.
HistoryofIran (
talk)
23:18, 18 May 2024 (UTC)reply
@
HistoryofIran: That was mostly just a suggestion. I didn't really need it to be shortened for this to pass, just maybe keep that in mind for the future. I fixed one minor grammatical thing, and I think that it looks good! Great work! Relativity ⚡️21:30, 3 June 2024 (UTC)reply
Note: this represents where the article stands relative to the
Good Article criteria. Criteria marked are unassessed
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.