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The source given to suggest that the Mongol Empire is 34 million km squared does in fact, if read, describe its size as 24 million km squared. May I suggest it is revised to be in line with the soure. Or, listed as 33 million km squared so it is in line with the article on the world's largest empites. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.146.72.124 ( talk) 20:16, 6 August 2010 (UTC)
You obviously don't have abundant unbiased wealth of information in East History.
Picking on Koreans that is not nice.
Your information is speculation. If you want to make sure they are right have sources.
You must be European. We all know the Mongol Empire was greater than the British.
100 million in the Mongol Empire? Where do you get that information.
Unlike the British, the Mongols did not have enemies powerful enough the challenge them.
Our time is coming, we will rewrite history as you have in the last 200 years.
See how you like it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Happyface1234 ( talk • contribs) 16:42, 19 February 2011 (UTC)
I myself am a business analyst and provide technical solutions especially with respects to corporate structure in Asia. I have an abundant and unbiased wealth of knowledge in history in Asia and Europe. Let me start by saying that his comment is not meant to discriminate or bash against people of any national origins whatsoever. But I write this for the sake of understanding and learning history from an unbiased MODERN perspective.
Many Koreans, usually nationalists, have tried to change information on this Mongol Empire page along with others to "glorify" their history. I have not done much in the past but because of the extent and the influence on other Wiki users, I feel like I must start by complaining. Korean editors are also influencing other editors to become nationalistic with Wiki. Guys, this is wikipedia not Stalingrad.
The Mongol Empire history is very complex and let me by giving you a summary. Hopefully, we can make a collective effort to change this article along with others to REMOVE NATIONALISTIC VIEWS.
My summary: The Mongol Empire started with the unification of nomadic tribes in the Gobi Desert region under the leadership of Genghis Khan. Genghis Khan became the ruler of an unified Empire in 1250.
Genghis died and passed his rule to many relatives*. Many "relatives" would start invading other states during the 13th century. After Genghis, the Mongol Empire existed but it was not SINGLE EMPIRE LEAD A BY A SINGLE RULER. It was many empires but they all had Mongol rulers. Disunity eventually helped to accelerate the collapse of each INDEPENDENT EMPIRE or "Khanate."
One of Genghis Khan's relative was Kublai Khan who invaded China successfully. Kublai Khan made himself the Emperor of China and put the capital of his empire at Beijing. In 1260, Kublai accepted the Mandate of Heaven and declared himself as the ruler of China. In 1254, even before he conquered all of China, Kublai had learned from Confucian scholars about Chinese culture. In 1254, he thought of a new Dynasty name: The Yuan Dynasty. What ambition! Even before he conquered all of China, he knew the name of the Dynasty he would initiate.
Now, with relations to Korea and to put this nationalistic stuff to sleep!
When Kublai declared himself as the Emperor of China, he through CONFUCIAN PRINCIPLES wanted Korea to become a VASSAL of China. In the Song Dynasty, Korea submitted itself as a Vassal State of China. Confucian theory "appreciates" the flow and continuity of nature and law. Kublai Khan appreciated Confucian ideology greatly and wanted to further expand his control and wealth.
Korea submitted and allowed the marriage between a Mongol and a princess. Or was it a prince with a princess? Oh well! That should not affect this history.
Kublai Khan, the Emperor of China, through force and diplomacy made Korea a vassal state of China. He demanded tribute.
In this case, Korea was part of the Mongol Empire. Keep in mind that the Mongol Empire was NOT A SINGLE ENTITY AFTER THE DEATH OF GENGHIS KHAN. The Mongol Empire was many empires; all of which had Mongol emperors. Korea belonged to the one that the Mongol Kublai Khan.
ON A SIDE NOTE, the Dalai Lama states that when the Mongols (Kublai Khan) ruled China, they DID NOT put Tibet as part of China. But, Dalai Lama claims Kublai put Tibet as a tributary state to China like Korea! Tibetans refer to this as Priest-Patron relationship. Please to all Chinese nationalists, this is a side example. I am not arguing anything at all about Tibetan independence.
Please. correct this article from nationalism. Also, to nationalist Koreans, the Mongol Empire is not MODERN Mongolia. In other words, Korea was never ruled by Mongolia. Mongolia is MODERN nation state. Mongol Empire to Mongolia is like Ancient Greece to Modern Greece. Pertook15 ( talk) 20:32, 8 November 2009 (UTC)
Korea was a vassal i guess. People in the South usually.
Koreans in the North were integrate with the Manchus. Same with Jin dynasty.
Founder or Jin came from Korea. This information is in written in the History of Jin dynasty written by Yuan.
Chinese had to wear their hear and shave it. it was direct occupation.
Korea was not. It was a vassal but it was independent. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Happyface1234 ( talk • contribs) 16:46, 19 February 2011 (UTC)
Korea was under Mongol Empire, its VASSAL. Then it was vassal of Ming. Then it was vassal Ching. Then it was colony of JAPAN. Then north korea was satellite of Russia and China, south Korea became satellite of america. That's it. This is the answer to the many insults of korean users against mongolian users. Monkh Naran ( talk) 14:01, 15 November 2009 (UTC)
How big was the Empire 33 million or what Kai4 says 34 million? This information would determine if the British or Mongol Empire was bigger. User:Blood3 18:04, 4th January 2010 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Blood3 ( talk • contribs) 07:04, 4 January 2010 (UTC)
The Mongol Empire was the largest Empire, with 36 million http://www.eeb.uconn.edu/people/turchin/PDF/Latitude.pdf-- Mr nonono ( talk) 10:24, 2 May 2010 (UTC)
Since this is such an important topic, I am thinking of eventually improving and nominating this article for featured status. This would be a several step process that could take months. It would start with either nominating the for Good article status, or perhaps requesting a formal peer review. Before doing any of those though, I wanted to check with the regular editors on this page: Do you think the article is ready for "Good" status? Or are there sections that would need substantial improvement first, and if so, which? Thanks, -- El on ka 13:55, 15 August 2010 (UTC)
I think the article needs to make clear which of the two names (mongolyn ezent guren, ih mongol uls) are modern and which were already used at the time of its existence. And of course at least the historical name should be given in traditional letters. Yaan ( talk) 10:54, 24 August 2010 (UTC)
Suggestions generated by an automatic JavaScript program, and might not be applicable for the article in question.
between a number and the unit of measurement. For example, instead of 50 cm, use 50 cm, which when you are editing the page, should look like: 50 cm.
[?]All , Many, All , All , All , All , All , Many, all , all , all , all , all , all , all , all , all , all , all , all , all , all , all , all , all , all , all , all , all , all , all , all , all , all , all , all , all , all , all , all , all , all , all , all , all , all , all , all , any , any , any , any , any , many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many,A number of,Some ,Some ,Some ,Some ,Some ,Some ,a few,a few,a few,a few,a number of,a variety of,several,several,several,several,several,several,several,some ,some ,some ,some ,some ,some ,some ,some ,some ,some ,some ,some ,some ,some ,some ,some " were found.
{{fact}}
s.
[?]2You may wish to browse through User:AndyZ/Suggestions for further ideas.
-- El on ka 18:43, 21 August 2010 (UTC)
in the "Great expansion under Ogedei Khan" section
at the end of the third paragraph it says "Ogedei showed heroic generosity to his subjects and decreed one out of every sheep[29] should be levied for poor people."
which is meaningless! perhaps someone could change it to to "decreed a proportion of all sheep" which is better but not perfect.
this of course is pending a reference check?
i'm pretty sure my local library doesn't have the history of the mongol empire etc!
thanks all Tek —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.128.33.183 ( talk) 01:22, 3 September 2010 (UTC)
As part of the article improvement drive, I'm looking at some of the sources on this article, and I think I a few should be removed, or at least pared back. For example, Jack Weatherford's book is definitely popular, but much of it is written in a somewhat sensationalized style, and I don't think it should be treated as a reliable source. At the Franco-Mongol alliance article, we were questioned about the Weatherford source in particular, and ended up removing it entirely.
Another source I'd like to question, is this PDF. [4] It's definitely a paper on a university website, but was it ever published? And if so, where? If it hasn't been published, we probably shouldn't use it, unless it's just as a primary source for a quote by one of its authors.
Unless anyone objects, I'll go ahead and start paring down sources to those that are known to be solid and reliable. -- El on ka 07:14, 13 September 2010 (UTC)
It is not necessary to merge the part "Great Expansion under Ögedei Khan" with the article "Ögedei Khan". Some scholars like C.P.Atwood, Rene Grousset, Thomas J.Barfield, and George Lane mention the Mongols during his reign in a separate chapter when talking about the Mongol Empire because of his achievement.-- Enerelt ( talk) 02:01, 18 September 2010 (UTC)
Maybe this article should be extended up to 1636 or 1691?? ༄༅།།གང་ཐུ་ཡཱ།། ( talk) 12:45, 21 September 2010 (UTC)
I am proposing through an RfC (Requests for comment) that the sandbox article Mongol influences in European art be introduced in the mainspace as a regular article. Interested users, please give your comments here. Per Honor et Gloria ✍ 02:31, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
I've stubbed a key concept in the history of East/Central Asian nomads, the Orda (structure). I am having trouble finding sources defining this term properly, perhaps some of the editors who contributed to this FA could help? -- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk 23:18, 16 January 2011 (UTC)
http://www.nationalgeographic.com/features/97/genghis/khanmap.html — Preceding unsigned comment added by Picaballo ( talk • contribs) 10:52, 24 April 2011 (UTC)
An image used in this article, File:Mongol empire 1290.jpg, has been deleted from Wikimedia Commons by Jcb for the following reason: Per commons:Commons:Deletion requests/maps in History and Commercial Atlas of China
You can remove the code for this image from the article text (which can look messy), however a different bot may already have done so. You could also try to search for new images to replace the one deleted. If you think the deletion was in error please raise the issue at Commons.
This notification is provided by a Bot, currently under trial -- CommonsNotification ( talk) 21:48, 5 May 2011 (UTC)
Please clean-up the article to respect notably MOS:Ety and Wikipedia:CAPS.
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 | Archive 3 | Archive 4 | Archive 5 |
The source given to suggest that the Mongol Empire is 34 million km squared does in fact, if read, describe its size as 24 million km squared. May I suggest it is revised to be in line with the soure. Or, listed as 33 million km squared so it is in line with the article on the world's largest empites. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.146.72.124 ( talk) 20:16, 6 August 2010 (UTC)
You obviously don't have abundant unbiased wealth of information in East History.
Picking on Koreans that is not nice.
Your information is speculation. If you want to make sure they are right have sources.
You must be European. We all know the Mongol Empire was greater than the British.
100 million in the Mongol Empire? Where do you get that information.
Unlike the British, the Mongols did not have enemies powerful enough the challenge them.
Our time is coming, we will rewrite history as you have in the last 200 years.
See how you like it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Happyface1234 ( talk • contribs) 16:42, 19 February 2011 (UTC)
I myself am a business analyst and provide technical solutions especially with respects to corporate structure in Asia. I have an abundant and unbiased wealth of knowledge in history in Asia and Europe. Let me start by saying that his comment is not meant to discriminate or bash against people of any national origins whatsoever. But I write this for the sake of understanding and learning history from an unbiased MODERN perspective.
Many Koreans, usually nationalists, have tried to change information on this Mongol Empire page along with others to "glorify" their history. I have not done much in the past but because of the extent and the influence on other Wiki users, I feel like I must start by complaining. Korean editors are also influencing other editors to become nationalistic with Wiki. Guys, this is wikipedia not Stalingrad.
The Mongol Empire history is very complex and let me by giving you a summary. Hopefully, we can make a collective effort to change this article along with others to REMOVE NATIONALISTIC VIEWS.
My summary: The Mongol Empire started with the unification of nomadic tribes in the Gobi Desert region under the leadership of Genghis Khan. Genghis Khan became the ruler of an unified Empire in 1250.
Genghis died and passed his rule to many relatives*. Many "relatives" would start invading other states during the 13th century. After Genghis, the Mongol Empire existed but it was not SINGLE EMPIRE LEAD A BY A SINGLE RULER. It was many empires but they all had Mongol rulers. Disunity eventually helped to accelerate the collapse of each INDEPENDENT EMPIRE or "Khanate."
One of Genghis Khan's relative was Kublai Khan who invaded China successfully. Kublai Khan made himself the Emperor of China and put the capital of his empire at Beijing. In 1260, Kublai accepted the Mandate of Heaven and declared himself as the ruler of China. In 1254, even before he conquered all of China, Kublai had learned from Confucian scholars about Chinese culture. In 1254, he thought of a new Dynasty name: The Yuan Dynasty. What ambition! Even before he conquered all of China, he knew the name of the Dynasty he would initiate.
Now, with relations to Korea and to put this nationalistic stuff to sleep!
When Kublai declared himself as the Emperor of China, he through CONFUCIAN PRINCIPLES wanted Korea to become a VASSAL of China. In the Song Dynasty, Korea submitted itself as a Vassal State of China. Confucian theory "appreciates" the flow and continuity of nature and law. Kublai Khan appreciated Confucian ideology greatly and wanted to further expand his control and wealth.
Korea submitted and allowed the marriage between a Mongol and a princess. Or was it a prince with a princess? Oh well! That should not affect this history.
Kublai Khan, the Emperor of China, through force and diplomacy made Korea a vassal state of China. He demanded tribute.
In this case, Korea was part of the Mongol Empire. Keep in mind that the Mongol Empire was NOT A SINGLE ENTITY AFTER THE DEATH OF GENGHIS KHAN. The Mongol Empire was many empires; all of which had Mongol emperors. Korea belonged to the one that the Mongol Kublai Khan.
ON A SIDE NOTE, the Dalai Lama states that when the Mongols (Kublai Khan) ruled China, they DID NOT put Tibet as part of China. But, Dalai Lama claims Kublai put Tibet as a tributary state to China like Korea! Tibetans refer to this as Priest-Patron relationship. Please to all Chinese nationalists, this is a side example. I am not arguing anything at all about Tibetan independence.
Please. correct this article from nationalism. Also, to nationalist Koreans, the Mongol Empire is not MODERN Mongolia. In other words, Korea was never ruled by Mongolia. Mongolia is MODERN nation state. Mongol Empire to Mongolia is like Ancient Greece to Modern Greece. Pertook15 ( talk) 20:32, 8 November 2009 (UTC)
Korea was a vassal i guess. People in the South usually.
Koreans in the North were integrate with the Manchus. Same with Jin dynasty.
Founder or Jin came from Korea. This information is in written in the History of Jin dynasty written by Yuan.
Chinese had to wear their hear and shave it. it was direct occupation.
Korea was not. It was a vassal but it was independent. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Happyface1234 ( talk • contribs) 16:46, 19 February 2011 (UTC)
Korea was under Mongol Empire, its VASSAL. Then it was vassal of Ming. Then it was vassal Ching. Then it was colony of JAPAN. Then north korea was satellite of Russia and China, south Korea became satellite of america. That's it. This is the answer to the many insults of korean users against mongolian users. Monkh Naran ( talk) 14:01, 15 November 2009 (UTC)
How big was the Empire 33 million or what Kai4 says 34 million? This information would determine if the British or Mongol Empire was bigger. User:Blood3 18:04, 4th January 2010 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Blood3 ( talk • contribs) 07:04, 4 January 2010 (UTC)
The Mongol Empire was the largest Empire, with 36 million http://www.eeb.uconn.edu/people/turchin/PDF/Latitude.pdf-- Mr nonono ( talk) 10:24, 2 May 2010 (UTC)
Since this is such an important topic, I am thinking of eventually improving and nominating this article for featured status. This would be a several step process that could take months. It would start with either nominating the for Good article status, or perhaps requesting a formal peer review. Before doing any of those though, I wanted to check with the regular editors on this page: Do you think the article is ready for "Good" status? Or are there sections that would need substantial improvement first, and if so, which? Thanks, -- El on ka 13:55, 15 August 2010 (UTC)
I think the article needs to make clear which of the two names (mongolyn ezent guren, ih mongol uls) are modern and which were already used at the time of its existence. And of course at least the historical name should be given in traditional letters. Yaan ( talk) 10:54, 24 August 2010 (UTC)
Suggestions generated by an automatic JavaScript program, and might not be applicable for the article in question.
between a number and the unit of measurement. For example, instead of 50 cm, use 50 cm, which when you are editing the page, should look like: 50 cm.
[?]All , Many, All , All , All , All , All , Many, all , all , all , all , all , all , all , all , all , all , all , all , all , all , all , all , all , all , all , all , all , all , all , all , all , all , all , all , all , all , all , all , all , all , all , all , all , all , all , all , any , any , any , any , any , many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many,A number of,Some ,Some ,Some ,Some ,Some ,Some ,a few,a few,a few,a few,a number of,a variety of,several,several,several,several,several,several,several,some ,some ,some ,some ,some ,some ,some ,some ,some ,some ,some ,some ,some ,some ,some ,some " were found.
{{fact}}
s.
[?]2You may wish to browse through User:AndyZ/Suggestions for further ideas.
-- El on ka 18:43, 21 August 2010 (UTC)
in the "Great expansion under Ogedei Khan" section
at the end of the third paragraph it says "Ogedei showed heroic generosity to his subjects and decreed one out of every sheep[29] should be levied for poor people."
which is meaningless! perhaps someone could change it to to "decreed a proportion of all sheep" which is better but not perfect.
this of course is pending a reference check?
i'm pretty sure my local library doesn't have the history of the mongol empire etc!
thanks all Tek —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.128.33.183 ( talk) 01:22, 3 September 2010 (UTC)
As part of the article improvement drive, I'm looking at some of the sources on this article, and I think I a few should be removed, or at least pared back. For example, Jack Weatherford's book is definitely popular, but much of it is written in a somewhat sensationalized style, and I don't think it should be treated as a reliable source. At the Franco-Mongol alliance article, we were questioned about the Weatherford source in particular, and ended up removing it entirely.
Another source I'd like to question, is this PDF. [4] It's definitely a paper on a university website, but was it ever published? And if so, where? If it hasn't been published, we probably shouldn't use it, unless it's just as a primary source for a quote by one of its authors.
Unless anyone objects, I'll go ahead and start paring down sources to those that are known to be solid and reliable. -- El on ka 07:14, 13 September 2010 (UTC)
It is not necessary to merge the part "Great Expansion under Ögedei Khan" with the article "Ögedei Khan". Some scholars like C.P.Atwood, Rene Grousset, Thomas J.Barfield, and George Lane mention the Mongols during his reign in a separate chapter when talking about the Mongol Empire because of his achievement.-- Enerelt ( talk) 02:01, 18 September 2010 (UTC)
Maybe this article should be extended up to 1636 or 1691?? ༄༅།།གང་ཐུ་ཡཱ།། ( talk) 12:45, 21 September 2010 (UTC)
I am proposing through an RfC (Requests for comment) that the sandbox article Mongol influences in European art be introduced in the mainspace as a regular article. Interested users, please give your comments here. Per Honor et Gloria ✍ 02:31, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
I've stubbed a key concept in the history of East/Central Asian nomads, the Orda (structure). I am having trouble finding sources defining this term properly, perhaps some of the editors who contributed to this FA could help? -- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk 23:18, 16 January 2011 (UTC)
http://www.nationalgeographic.com/features/97/genghis/khanmap.html — Preceding unsigned comment added by Picaballo ( talk • contribs) 10:52, 24 April 2011 (UTC)
An image used in this article, File:Mongol empire 1290.jpg, has been deleted from Wikimedia Commons by Jcb for the following reason: Per commons:Commons:Deletion requests/maps in History and Commercial Atlas of China
You can remove the code for this image from the article text (which can look messy), however a different bot may already have done so. You could also try to search for new images to replace the one deleted. If you think the deletion was in error please raise the issue at Commons.
This notification is provided by a Bot, currently under trial -- CommonsNotification ( talk) 21:48, 5 May 2011 (UTC)
Please clean-up the article to respect notably MOS:Ety and Wikipedia:CAPS.