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This article should adhere to the gender identity guideline because it contains material about one or more trans women. Precedence should be given to self-designation as reported in the most up-to-date reliable sources, anywhere in article space, even when it doesn't match what's most common in reliable sources. Any person whose gender might be questioned should be referred to by the pronouns, possessive adjectives, and gendered nouns (for example "man/woman", "waiter/waitress", "chairman/chairwoman") that reflect that person's latest expressed gender self-identification. Some people go by singular they pronouns, which are acceptable for use in articles. This applies in references to any phase of that person's life, unless the subject has indicated a preference otherwise. Former, pre-transition names may only be included if the person was notable while using the name; outside of the main biographical article, such names should only appear once, in a footnote or parentheses.If material violating this guideline is repeatedly inserted, or if there are other related issues, please report the issue to the LGBT WikiProject, or, in the case of living people, to the BLP noticeboard. |
![]() | A news item involving Lynn Conway was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the In the news section on 13 June 2024. | ![]() |
![]() | A fact from this article was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the On this day section on January 2, 2021. |
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I'm going to start this on the talk page, because we are going to end up here anyway.
I would like to add "Robert" to the article, preferably by changing "Conway grew up in White Plains, New York." to Conway (born Robert) grew up in White Plains, New York". The references definitely exist, including *primary* sources at http://ai.eecs.umich.edu/people/conway/Retrospective1.html and secondary at https://womenyoushouldknow.net/lynn-conway-microchip-design/ and http://lorentium.com/synetec/lynn-conway/ .
I'm familiar with WP:DEADNAME and given that in my opinion she was not notable prior to arriving at Xerox PARC, her name given at birth should *not* be in the Lead (This is a Laverne Cox situation in that degree rather than a Caitlyn Jenner or Chelsea Manning.
I have no intention of making this edit until after at least some level of discussion here (or a week without response, which I seriously doubt will occur) Naraht ( talk) 02:38, 14 October 2019 (UTC)
Old discussion, but I don't see anything wrong with it. WP:DEADNAME only objects where it creates a privacy issue. Based on Nahrat's explanation here, it does not. Dovid ( talk) 03:11, 22 November 2020 (UTC)
There is nothing wrong with stating the name given at birth. It is the same thing as a last name someone had before marriage. Sadly, there are terrorist groups with a narcissistic disorder who are mostly actually unrelated to trans people, and use this as yet another tool to gain power and terrorize people. They have invented the hateful prejudiced narrative, that even mentioning the birth name somehow implies hate and discrimination, so they can spread hate and dicriminate against anyone disagreeing with them. A typical behavior in people with narcissistic disorder when occuring in combination with a pathologically low self-esteem.
The problem is that the vast majority of trans people have no problem with their birth name at all, and the vast majority of people just see it as the birth name and nothing more.
In the end,, it is just a normal fact of reality, and does nothing to anybody. Making a taboo out of even speaking out certain names of generally willfully ignoring parts of reality, is a typical symtom of mental illness though (unrelated to if a person is trans), and if untreated, can lead do more severe schizoid illness, to a point where the person becomes incompatible with much of actual reality and cannot live a healthy life in society anymore. So while incompetent laypeople will mistake that as helpful, it will in fact just worsen and prolong the symptoms of what it meant to have a body of the different sex than your brain and be gaslighted into thinking it’s not the case.
Unfortunately, it seems many people are still so utterly clueless and naive, they are falling for those terrorist groups and let themselves be used as tools to oppress people, while believing they are righteous white knights coming to the help of poor poor helpless minorities. (See: holy wars)
— A trans person and neuro-psychologist who seriously had enough with this condescending bullshit, and doesn’t need any of you terrorists as a savior from anyone!
2A02:3035:612:AF3:2D13:3D20:2112:A797 (
talk) 03:11, 21 April 2024 (UTC)
At the time of writing this section seems exceptionally poorly written. There are massive randomly selected quotes mixed in with one single actual piece of recognition all in a hard to parse jumble. I'm planning on trimming most of the section, or possibly just deleting it and moving the magazine mention to another section. Before I do that I'd like to hear if any editors think it should be taken in a different direction. XeCyranium ( talk) 03:58, 21 March 2023 (UTC)
Just a reminder that:
All quotations and any material challenged or likely to be challenged must be supported by an inline citation to a reliable, published source. Contentious material about living persons (or, in some cases, recently deceased) that is unsourced or poorly sourced—whether the material is negative, positive, neutral, or just questionable—must be removed immediately and without waiting for discussion. Users who persistently or egregiously violate this policy may be blocked from editing.
Per Wikipedia:Biographies of living persons. GA-RT-22 ( talk) 18:21, 11 June 2024 (UTC)
Why are personal websites and blogs being used to assert that the subject has died? If there are no high quality sources available, we shouldn't be editing a WP:BLP and asserting that. If it is true, then we will have reliable sources shortly. Hist9600 ( talk) 23:45, 11 June 2024 (UTC)
Memories of, why do you think it's "historically correct" to use transsexual in 2024? Even if it was the term used back then, it's not what is in use now. LilianaUwU ( talk / contributions) 11:52, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
After learning of the pioneering research of Harry Benjamin in healthcare for [transgender/transsexual] women and realizing that gender affirmation surgery was now possible, Conway sought his help.
Fioritura137 (
talk) 13:56, 12 June 2024 (UTC)This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Lynn Conway article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Archives:
1,
2,
3Auto-archiving period: 90 days
![]() |
![]() | The
contentious topics procedure applies to this page. This page is related to gender-related disputes or controversies or people associated with them, which has been
designated as a contentious topic. Editors who repeatedly or seriously fail to adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, any expected standards of behaviour, or any normal editorial process may be blocked or restricted by an administrator. Editors are advised to familiarise themselves with the contentious topics procedures before editing this page. |
This article should adhere to the gender identity guideline because it contains material about one or more trans women. Precedence should be given to self-designation as reported in the most up-to-date reliable sources, anywhere in article space, even when it doesn't match what's most common in reliable sources. Any person whose gender might be questioned should be referred to by the pronouns, possessive adjectives, and gendered nouns (for example "man/woman", "waiter/waitress", "chairman/chairwoman") that reflect that person's latest expressed gender self-identification. Some people go by singular they pronouns, which are acceptable for use in articles. This applies in references to any phase of that person's life, unless the subject has indicated a preference otherwise. Former, pre-transition names may only be included if the person was notable while using the name; outside of the main biographical article, such names should only appear once, in a footnote or parentheses.If material violating this guideline is repeatedly inserted, or if there are other related issues, please report the issue to the LGBT WikiProject, or, in the case of living people, to the BLP noticeboard. |
![]() | A news item involving Lynn Conway was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the In the news section on 13 June 2024. | ![]() |
![]() | A fact from this article was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the On this day section on January 2, 2021. |
![]() | This ![]() It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
![]() | The following Wikipedia contributor may be personally or professionally connected to the subject of this article. Relevant policies and guidelines may include
conflict of interest,
autobiography, and
neutral point of view.
|
I'm going to start this on the talk page, because we are going to end up here anyway.
I would like to add "Robert" to the article, preferably by changing "Conway grew up in White Plains, New York." to Conway (born Robert) grew up in White Plains, New York". The references definitely exist, including *primary* sources at http://ai.eecs.umich.edu/people/conway/Retrospective1.html and secondary at https://womenyoushouldknow.net/lynn-conway-microchip-design/ and http://lorentium.com/synetec/lynn-conway/ .
I'm familiar with WP:DEADNAME and given that in my opinion she was not notable prior to arriving at Xerox PARC, her name given at birth should *not* be in the Lead (This is a Laverne Cox situation in that degree rather than a Caitlyn Jenner or Chelsea Manning.
I have no intention of making this edit until after at least some level of discussion here (or a week without response, which I seriously doubt will occur) Naraht ( talk) 02:38, 14 October 2019 (UTC)
Old discussion, but I don't see anything wrong with it. WP:DEADNAME only objects where it creates a privacy issue. Based on Nahrat's explanation here, it does not. Dovid ( talk) 03:11, 22 November 2020 (UTC)
There is nothing wrong with stating the name given at birth. It is the same thing as a last name someone had before marriage. Sadly, there are terrorist groups with a narcissistic disorder who are mostly actually unrelated to trans people, and use this as yet another tool to gain power and terrorize people. They have invented the hateful prejudiced narrative, that even mentioning the birth name somehow implies hate and discrimination, so they can spread hate and dicriminate against anyone disagreeing with them. A typical behavior in people with narcissistic disorder when occuring in combination with a pathologically low self-esteem.
The problem is that the vast majority of trans people have no problem with their birth name at all, and the vast majority of people just see it as the birth name and nothing more.
In the end,, it is just a normal fact of reality, and does nothing to anybody. Making a taboo out of even speaking out certain names of generally willfully ignoring parts of reality, is a typical symtom of mental illness though (unrelated to if a person is trans), and if untreated, can lead do more severe schizoid illness, to a point where the person becomes incompatible with much of actual reality and cannot live a healthy life in society anymore. So while incompetent laypeople will mistake that as helpful, it will in fact just worsen and prolong the symptoms of what it meant to have a body of the different sex than your brain and be gaslighted into thinking it’s not the case.
Unfortunately, it seems many people are still so utterly clueless and naive, they are falling for those terrorist groups and let themselves be used as tools to oppress people, while believing they are righteous white knights coming to the help of poor poor helpless minorities. (See: holy wars)
— A trans person and neuro-psychologist who seriously had enough with this condescending bullshit, and doesn’t need any of you terrorists as a savior from anyone!
2A02:3035:612:AF3:2D13:3D20:2112:A797 (
talk) 03:11, 21 April 2024 (UTC)
At the time of writing this section seems exceptionally poorly written. There are massive randomly selected quotes mixed in with one single actual piece of recognition all in a hard to parse jumble. I'm planning on trimming most of the section, or possibly just deleting it and moving the magazine mention to another section. Before I do that I'd like to hear if any editors think it should be taken in a different direction. XeCyranium ( talk) 03:58, 21 March 2023 (UTC)
Just a reminder that:
All quotations and any material challenged or likely to be challenged must be supported by an inline citation to a reliable, published source. Contentious material about living persons (or, in some cases, recently deceased) that is unsourced or poorly sourced—whether the material is negative, positive, neutral, or just questionable—must be removed immediately and without waiting for discussion. Users who persistently or egregiously violate this policy may be blocked from editing.
Per Wikipedia:Biographies of living persons. GA-RT-22 ( talk) 18:21, 11 June 2024 (UTC)
Why are personal websites and blogs being used to assert that the subject has died? If there are no high quality sources available, we shouldn't be editing a WP:BLP and asserting that. If it is true, then we will have reliable sources shortly. Hist9600 ( talk) 23:45, 11 June 2024 (UTC)
Memories of, why do you think it's "historically correct" to use transsexual in 2024? Even if it was the term used back then, it's not what is in use now. LilianaUwU ( talk / contributions) 11:52, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
After learning of the pioneering research of Harry Benjamin in healthcare for [transgender/transsexual] women and realizing that gender affirmation surgery was now possible, Conway sought his help.
Fioritura137 (
talk) 13:56, 12 June 2024 (UTC)