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I've been thinking that you guys are right that this thing is fairly painful to read and navigate. I think that copying relevent info over to regional versions of the page and then linking them from this one would be a good idea. I think most of these will already have a page, like America, but if not it shouldn't be too difficult to make a bunch of new pages. Leaving just two lines of basic overall numbers for each region on this page might be a good idea, that way you can scroll down it and get an overview - then click to each page for the details on the subject. What do you guys think? Tiggy The Terrible ( talk) 23:26, 25 January 2022 (UTC)
@ TiggyTheTerrible: I already stated that I don't agree with removing the part about White supremacy. And I also mentioned WP:BALASP. Why did you remove it again, without even giving an explanation ? -- Rsk6400 ( talk) 14:33, 1 February 2022 (UTC)
For examples and a specific timeline, please see the main page for lynchings in America- I didn't look it up, but I have a feeling that it's against WP:MOS. Regarding
I don't think we need to have a list of examples, I totally agree with you and the rationale you gave. Another thing: Emmett Till is mentioned in section "Anti-lynching legislation". Rsk6400 ( talk) 20:24, 2 February 2022 (UTC)
If we could maybe chop that down by half, at least, a little later it was
I think we really should just move 90% of it.That looks to me like wanting to shorten it just for sake of shortening it. I already referred to WP:BALASP above. More important: When cutting down this text we cannot just cut away important parts like the end of lynchings or the White Southern resistance against anti-lynching legislation. U.S. lawmakers defended lawlessness, yes ! We cannot remove it just because it was written in the second part of the section. If you want people to read Lynching in the United States, then you should also pay attention to what you are doing there. You recently inserted at least two pictures that were already there, and I still didn't check the text you inserted for duplicates. Rsk6400 ( talk) 14:25, 3 February 2022 (UTC)
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 10 January 2022 and 8 May 2022. Further details are available
on the course page. Student editor(s):
Peyt775,
Apollo4682 (
article contribs).
Whilst I understand Wikipedia does not censor, and that lynching itself plus its history is henous and disturbing, the fact that an image of a hanged black man (whos face can be seen, but is unnamed) pops up even when just scrolling over the link for 'lynching' frankly puts a very sour taste in my mouth. I feel these kinds of images, whilst historically important, should be kept further down the article, not least so if someone not familiar with the term hovers for a definition or an introduction, such as younger people researching US history or racism in the USA for the first time they don't see surprise snuff.
Pop-up previews for other potentially 'unsavoury' or 'offensive' articles, such as those relating to sexual acts ( cunnilingus, sexual intercourse) have artistic depictions, as do other forms of execution/killing like murder, massacre, hanging, stoning, death by burning and even articles on similar violent hatecrimes like pogrom doesn't show a large image of dead Jews; other crimes against the person are depicted with statistical maps on the pop-ups such as rape. The only exception I've found is electrocution which shows a man with a covered face and with no obvious signs of being dead nor alive or in explicit pain (although he's obviously not comfortable, but thats only implied with knowledge of the apparatus). Other articles from List of methods of capital punishment don't show pop-up images and the lead images on the article's page is usually historical art or images of the apparatus used.
I propose this image is replaced with either: an illustration of these acts of violence, an image or depiction of a lynching before the actual hanging occurs, an abstract representation such as a map of lynchings per US state or an empty noose on a tree (or simply removing the covering image).
If the image is not replaced, I at least request that it doesn't show up when you hover over the links on other articles.
The images on Lynching in the United States are frankly more disturbing and I feel the same way as above, but at least that article is only likely to linked after this general article so one may know what to expect, plus the images have specific historical context, names and locations, unlike this one. Jackass cooper ( talk) 15:59, 9 June 2023 (UTC)
"Lead images should be of least shock value; an alternative image that accurately represents the topic without shock value should always be preferred."If we can find a less shocking image that still represents the topic well, I'd support it. Firefangledfeathers ( talk / contribs) 16:11, 9 June 2023 (UTC)
Some media in India are now using the term “lynching” to refer to an incident in Manipur where a mob of men from the dominant ethnic group gathered outside a courthouse, demanded the release of several minority women who had been arrested for protesting, and then had the women stripped naked and subjected to a mass sexual assault/gang rape. While the women were not actually killed, the event (which was captured on video) does share a lot of similarities with lynchings as US citizens understand the term. The mob members also killed male relatives of the women who were trying to stop the assaults. See: [1] [2] I wonder if there should be a section on this page for such “rape lynchings” (another attempted example from India is [3]) or whether it would be a better fit for the See Also section. 2604:2D80:6984:3800:0:0:0:AD8C ( talk) 19:56, 1 August 2023 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Lynching article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Archives:
1,
2Auto-archiving period: 30 days
![]() |
![]() |
Wikipedia is not censored. Images or details contained within this article may be graphic or otherwise objectionable to some readers, to ensure a quality article and complete coverage of its subject matter. For more information, please refer to Wikipedia's content disclaimer regarding potentially objectionable content and options for not seeing an image. |
![]() | This ![]() It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
![]() |
Daily pageviews of this article
A graph should have been displayed here but
graphs are temporarily disabled. Until they are enabled again, visit the interactive graph at
pageviews.wmcloud.org |
I've been thinking that you guys are right that this thing is fairly painful to read and navigate. I think that copying relevent info over to regional versions of the page and then linking them from this one would be a good idea. I think most of these will already have a page, like America, but if not it shouldn't be too difficult to make a bunch of new pages. Leaving just two lines of basic overall numbers for each region on this page might be a good idea, that way you can scroll down it and get an overview - then click to each page for the details on the subject. What do you guys think? Tiggy The Terrible ( talk) 23:26, 25 January 2022 (UTC)
@ TiggyTheTerrible: I already stated that I don't agree with removing the part about White supremacy. And I also mentioned WP:BALASP. Why did you remove it again, without even giving an explanation ? -- Rsk6400 ( talk) 14:33, 1 February 2022 (UTC)
For examples and a specific timeline, please see the main page for lynchings in America- I didn't look it up, but I have a feeling that it's against WP:MOS. Regarding
I don't think we need to have a list of examples, I totally agree with you and the rationale you gave. Another thing: Emmett Till is mentioned in section "Anti-lynching legislation". Rsk6400 ( talk) 20:24, 2 February 2022 (UTC)
If we could maybe chop that down by half, at least, a little later it was
I think we really should just move 90% of it.That looks to me like wanting to shorten it just for sake of shortening it. I already referred to WP:BALASP above. More important: When cutting down this text we cannot just cut away important parts like the end of lynchings or the White Southern resistance against anti-lynching legislation. U.S. lawmakers defended lawlessness, yes ! We cannot remove it just because it was written in the second part of the section. If you want people to read Lynching in the United States, then you should also pay attention to what you are doing there. You recently inserted at least two pictures that were already there, and I still didn't check the text you inserted for duplicates. Rsk6400 ( talk) 14:25, 3 February 2022 (UTC)
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 10 January 2022 and 8 May 2022. Further details are available
on the course page. Student editor(s):
Peyt775,
Apollo4682 (
article contribs).
Whilst I understand Wikipedia does not censor, and that lynching itself plus its history is henous and disturbing, the fact that an image of a hanged black man (whos face can be seen, but is unnamed) pops up even when just scrolling over the link for 'lynching' frankly puts a very sour taste in my mouth. I feel these kinds of images, whilst historically important, should be kept further down the article, not least so if someone not familiar with the term hovers for a definition or an introduction, such as younger people researching US history or racism in the USA for the first time they don't see surprise snuff.
Pop-up previews for other potentially 'unsavoury' or 'offensive' articles, such as those relating to sexual acts ( cunnilingus, sexual intercourse) have artistic depictions, as do other forms of execution/killing like murder, massacre, hanging, stoning, death by burning and even articles on similar violent hatecrimes like pogrom doesn't show a large image of dead Jews; other crimes against the person are depicted with statistical maps on the pop-ups such as rape. The only exception I've found is electrocution which shows a man with a covered face and with no obvious signs of being dead nor alive or in explicit pain (although he's obviously not comfortable, but thats only implied with knowledge of the apparatus). Other articles from List of methods of capital punishment don't show pop-up images and the lead images on the article's page is usually historical art or images of the apparatus used.
I propose this image is replaced with either: an illustration of these acts of violence, an image or depiction of a lynching before the actual hanging occurs, an abstract representation such as a map of lynchings per US state or an empty noose on a tree (or simply removing the covering image).
If the image is not replaced, I at least request that it doesn't show up when you hover over the links on other articles.
The images on Lynching in the United States are frankly more disturbing and I feel the same way as above, but at least that article is only likely to linked after this general article so one may know what to expect, plus the images have specific historical context, names and locations, unlike this one. Jackass cooper ( talk) 15:59, 9 June 2023 (UTC)
"Lead images should be of least shock value; an alternative image that accurately represents the topic without shock value should always be preferred."If we can find a less shocking image that still represents the topic well, I'd support it. Firefangledfeathers ( talk / contribs) 16:11, 9 June 2023 (UTC)
Some media in India are now using the term “lynching” to refer to an incident in Manipur where a mob of men from the dominant ethnic group gathered outside a courthouse, demanded the release of several minority women who had been arrested for protesting, and then had the women stripped naked and subjected to a mass sexual assault/gang rape. While the women were not actually killed, the event (which was captured on video) does share a lot of similarities with lynchings as US citizens understand the term. The mob members also killed male relatives of the women who were trying to stop the assaults. See: [1] [2] I wonder if there should be a section on this page for such “rape lynchings” (another attempted example from India is [3]) or whether it would be a better fit for the See Also section. 2604:2D80:6984:3800:0:0:0:AD8C ( talk) 19:56, 1 August 2023 (UTC)