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References to use. Erik ( talk | contrib) ( ping me) 21:25, 17 January 2019 (UTC)
which one is supposed to be the non-white one?
Some of the alleged examples of whitewashing are extremely tenuous, e.g.:
There are a plenty of compelling examples of whitewashing in media and including these dubious references undermines the validity of this list.
I also noticed “Stonewall” was included. People argue that the writer is erasing the history of the Stonewall riots by writing a story centered on a gay white man’s experiences. Without even speaking on that, the first sentence of this article says whitewashing is the practice of casting white actors in the roles of characters of color in film. The controversy with “Stonewall” isn’t about casting, it’s about the story and history being altered. However, the situation can also be described as whitewashing. The term is used to describe racism in many aspects of life, beyond film and I suggest we clarify that 11times ( talk) 10:16, 28 September 2022 (UTC)
I too have noticed this list is artificially padded out with very tenuous "examples". One of the examples is the 2015 film Aloha, which is an original film and not even based on a book, so how can it be whitewashing? The assumption seems to be that because Hawaii is only 30% white, it's whitewashing Hawaii to have a film about white Hawaiians. But that makes no sense, that's like saying that because the US is only 13% black, any film with a black cast is blackwashing the US.
This article also seems to confuse country with race. A Beautiful Mind is listed as an example of whitewashing because Jennifer Connelly plays Alicia Nash, born in El Salvador. Just because you're born in El Salvador doesn't mean you're not white. There is such a thing as white Hispanic. Same goes for Argo, Tony Mendez was born in the US of Mexican, Italian and French heritage. Are we supposed to assume that because he's half-Mexican, he's not white? Look at pictures of him, he looked white to me. RustlingLeaves ( talk) 00:44, 3 May 2023 (UTC)
This article also seems to confuse country with race.Then @ RustlingLeaves - what constitutes a "race" and "whitewashing"? Many East Asians have "white" skin, and are certainly different from other "browner" people like most South or Southeast Asians. Yet the Disney character Mulan had reliably sourced controversy for a redesign that made her skin "too white" or "light". Ironically, the actress cast to play live-action Mulan, Liu Yifei, has a very "white" skin tone and no one complained about that. Also, Salma Hayek is noted in the article, and she has been open about the lack of roles she received following her initial move to America and the racism she experienced in Hollywood because she's Hispanic/Latina. Are we supposed to deny the racism she experienced because you don't consider Hispanics to be a "race"? Reliable sources have labelled the casting of non-Salvadoran Jennifer Connelly to play a Salvadoran as "whitewashing" whether you like it or not. [2] And regardless of your opinion, reliable sources have talked about "whitewashing" in relation to the casting of Ben Affleck to play Tony Mendez.
The article is clearly written from a U.S. perspective that’s very ignorant about Latin America and the Middle East. But it used to be much more anti-Semitic, before other users insisted on changes. A large proportion of the examples involved biblical characters, objecting to their depiction by “white” actors. Then, other entries would object to casting of Jewish or Arab actors, labeling them “white.” The entire thing was premised on the erasure of Semitic, especially Jewish, identity. A heads-I-win, tails-you-lose approach to portray both the depiction and participation of Semitic people in media as a problem. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 166.182.86.87 ( talk) 19:51, 8 May 2023 (UTC)
It's funny to see Sir Sean Connery on the list, given the famous memes comparing him to Ayatollah Khomeini. Jews have been hit the hardest — Jewish actors playing characters of other races (or even other Middle Easterners) are recognized as white, while non-Jewish actors playing Jews are already considered whitewashed. The absolute absence of any clear systematics, and as colleagues have pointed out — a purely American view of the subject, where people do not distinguish such radically different concepts as "ethnicity" and "race". Iktsokh ( talk) 17:10, 9 July 2024 (UTC)
Yes, the list does have a good portion of nonsense, as well as clear cut iconic examples of what is meant; such as the Mickey Rooney/Tiffany role. I agree with above that the prominent, culturally iconic and undeniable examples be given, and cut away the endless chaff. Halbared ( talk) 18:39, 9 July 2024 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Whitewashing in film article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Archives:
1,
2,
3,
4,
5Auto-archiving period: 180 days
![]() |
![]() | The subject of this article is controversial and content may be in dispute. When updating the article, be bold, but not reckless. Feel free to try to improve the article, but don't take it personally if your changes are reversed; instead, come here to the talk page to discuss them. Content must be written from a neutral point of view. Include citations when adding content and consider tagging or removing unsourced information. |
![]() | This article was nominated for deletion on 22 February 2016. The result of the discussion was keep. |
![]() | This article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
References to use. Erik ( talk | contrib) ( ping me) 21:25, 17 January 2019 (UTC)
which one is supposed to be the non-white one?
Some of the alleged examples of whitewashing are extremely tenuous, e.g.:
There are a plenty of compelling examples of whitewashing in media and including these dubious references undermines the validity of this list.
I also noticed “Stonewall” was included. People argue that the writer is erasing the history of the Stonewall riots by writing a story centered on a gay white man’s experiences. Without even speaking on that, the first sentence of this article says whitewashing is the practice of casting white actors in the roles of characters of color in film. The controversy with “Stonewall” isn’t about casting, it’s about the story and history being altered. However, the situation can also be described as whitewashing. The term is used to describe racism in many aspects of life, beyond film and I suggest we clarify that 11times ( talk) 10:16, 28 September 2022 (UTC)
I too have noticed this list is artificially padded out with very tenuous "examples". One of the examples is the 2015 film Aloha, which is an original film and not even based on a book, so how can it be whitewashing? The assumption seems to be that because Hawaii is only 30% white, it's whitewashing Hawaii to have a film about white Hawaiians. But that makes no sense, that's like saying that because the US is only 13% black, any film with a black cast is blackwashing the US.
This article also seems to confuse country with race. A Beautiful Mind is listed as an example of whitewashing because Jennifer Connelly plays Alicia Nash, born in El Salvador. Just because you're born in El Salvador doesn't mean you're not white. There is such a thing as white Hispanic. Same goes for Argo, Tony Mendez was born in the US of Mexican, Italian and French heritage. Are we supposed to assume that because he's half-Mexican, he's not white? Look at pictures of him, he looked white to me. RustlingLeaves ( talk) 00:44, 3 May 2023 (UTC)
This article also seems to confuse country with race.Then @ RustlingLeaves - what constitutes a "race" and "whitewashing"? Many East Asians have "white" skin, and are certainly different from other "browner" people like most South or Southeast Asians. Yet the Disney character Mulan had reliably sourced controversy for a redesign that made her skin "too white" or "light". Ironically, the actress cast to play live-action Mulan, Liu Yifei, has a very "white" skin tone and no one complained about that. Also, Salma Hayek is noted in the article, and she has been open about the lack of roles she received following her initial move to America and the racism she experienced in Hollywood because she's Hispanic/Latina. Are we supposed to deny the racism she experienced because you don't consider Hispanics to be a "race"? Reliable sources have labelled the casting of non-Salvadoran Jennifer Connelly to play a Salvadoran as "whitewashing" whether you like it or not. [2] And regardless of your opinion, reliable sources have talked about "whitewashing" in relation to the casting of Ben Affleck to play Tony Mendez.
The article is clearly written from a U.S. perspective that’s very ignorant about Latin America and the Middle East. But it used to be much more anti-Semitic, before other users insisted on changes. A large proportion of the examples involved biblical characters, objecting to their depiction by “white” actors. Then, other entries would object to casting of Jewish or Arab actors, labeling them “white.” The entire thing was premised on the erasure of Semitic, especially Jewish, identity. A heads-I-win, tails-you-lose approach to portray both the depiction and participation of Semitic people in media as a problem. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 166.182.86.87 ( talk) 19:51, 8 May 2023 (UTC)
It's funny to see Sir Sean Connery on the list, given the famous memes comparing him to Ayatollah Khomeini. Jews have been hit the hardest — Jewish actors playing characters of other races (or even other Middle Easterners) are recognized as white, while non-Jewish actors playing Jews are already considered whitewashed. The absolute absence of any clear systematics, and as colleagues have pointed out — a purely American view of the subject, where people do not distinguish such radically different concepts as "ethnicity" and "race". Iktsokh ( talk) 17:10, 9 July 2024 (UTC)
Yes, the list does have a good portion of nonsense, as well as clear cut iconic examples of what is meant; such as the Mickey Rooney/Tiffany role. I agree with above that the prominent, culturally iconic and undeniable examples be given, and cut away the endless chaff. Halbared ( talk) 18:39, 9 July 2024 (UTC)