![]() | This article is rated List-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on List of Historic Sites of Japan (Aichi). Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 04:31, 18 May 2017 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 5 external links on List of Historic Sites of Japan (Aichi). Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 13:36, 25 December 2017 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: No consensus: This was a very tough one to call. Going by a strict count of supporters and opposes, the supporters are in the clear majority. However, consensus determination also requires evaluating their arguments, assigning due weight accordingly, and giving due consideration to the relevant consensus of the Wikipedia community in general as reflected in applicable policy, guidelines and naming conventions.
Supporters of moving the articles generally argued that the titles are not proper names, with some referring to
WP:NCCAPS,
WP:LOWERCASE,
MOS:PROPERNOUN,
MOS:CAPS, etc. Opposers of the move generally argued that these historic sites are officially recognised by the Japanese government, and since other articles on Wikipedia capitalise the names of similar articles, these should be capitalised as well.
In the aforementioned policies, and indeed some of the comments made during this discussion, it is emphasized that the capitalisation of article titles should be consistent with the source material. Very few sources were actually cited during this discussion, which makes it hard to judge the weight of statements concerning the source material. Therefore, in regards to arguments about source material, I find the statement by No such user to be the most convincing: this is a clear demarcation problem with no single satisfactory solution, and that citing source material is difficult due to the different profile of those sources when compared to other countries.
Given that other articles on Wikipedia capitalise similar articles, that very few sources were refereed to during this discussion, the majority of commenters argue that these titles are not common names and therefore shouldn't be capitalised, and that citing source material is difficult in this scenario, I find that there is no consensus on what the article titles should be. ( non-admin closure) Spekkios ( talk) 23:33, 14 April 2022 (UTC)
– Per WP:LOWERCASE, as suggested at Talk:List of historic sites of Japan (Kōchi)#Requested move 21 March 2022. GeoffreyT2000 ( talk) 15:18, 21 March 2022 (UTC)
If you look at the translation of the relevant legislation in the UNESCO database of national cultural heritage laws, a translation which says it by the Japan Centre for International Cooperation in Conservation and the National Research Institute for Cultural Properties, Tokyo, this uses what you would expect and how it should be, i.e, "Historic Site" etc, Maculosae tegmine lyncis ( talk) 15:17, 23 March 2022 (UTC)
"Follow the usage in sources" is a pretty hollow mantra, since sources discussing Japanese historical sites will be of different profile than those discussing, for example, Brazilian ones, [...], producing inconsistent results.Official designations of protected areas, historic sites and like should all be treated WP:CONSISTENTly, whether they are located in Japan, Kiribati, Paraguay or the United States. I don't have a strong preference for either lowercase or uppercase (both have their merits), but going case-by-case and examining sources (beware of WP:COMMONSTYLE fallacy) is counterproductive, since there will be inevitable inconsistency in sources treating essentially the same subjects. If necessary, let's have a RfC somewhere (I'd propose a limited scope only about natural and cultural heritage items) and then apply it consistently. No such user ( talk) 09:16, 24 March 2022 (UTC)
Multiples sections include "Sites" over-capitalized (I just fixed). I left headings "Prefectural Historic Sites", though it's hard to imagine that this RM will conclude that "Historic Sites" is a proper name with or without Prefectural or Municipal. We'll see. Dicklyon ( talk) 16:33, 23 March 2022 (UTC)
"If a term with a definite article has a different meaning with respect to the same term without the article, the term with the article can be used as the name of a Wikipedia article ... For example, "crown" means the headgear worn by a monarch or other high dignitaries, while "The Crown" is a term used to indicate the government authority and the property of that government in a monarchy."In this case, the capitalization is being used to convey the indication that the term is an officially conferred designation. That seems potentially contrary to MOS:SIGNIFCAPS, and it could be a slippery slope, but I think it is what is motivating the opposition to the downcasing. (Being capitalized doesn't mean they are proper names in the grammatical sense, of course.) — BarrelProof ( talk) 21:45, 23 March 2022 (UTC)
![]() | This article is rated List-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on List of Historic Sites of Japan (Aichi). Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 04:31, 18 May 2017 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 5 external links on List of Historic Sites of Japan (Aichi). Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 13:36, 25 December 2017 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: No consensus: This was a very tough one to call. Going by a strict count of supporters and opposes, the supporters are in the clear majority. However, consensus determination also requires evaluating their arguments, assigning due weight accordingly, and giving due consideration to the relevant consensus of the Wikipedia community in general as reflected in applicable policy, guidelines and naming conventions.
Supporters of moving the articles generally argued that the titles are not proper names, with some referring to
WP:NCCAPS,
WP:LOWERCASE,
MOS:PROPERNOUN,
MOS:CAPS, etc. Opposers of the move generally argued that these historic sites are officially recognised by the Japanese government, and since other articles on Wikipedia capitalise the names of similar articles, these should be capitalised as well.
In the aforementioned policies, and indeed some of the comments made during this discussion, it is emphasized that the capitalisation of article titles should be consistent with the source material. Very few sources were actually cited during this discussion, which makes it hard to judge the weight of statements concerning the source material. Therefore, in regards to arguments about source material, I find the statement by No such user to be the most convincing: this is a clear demarcation problem with no single satisfactory solution, and that citing source material is difficult due to the different profile of those sources when compared to other countries.
Given that other articles on Wikipedia capitalise similar articles, that very few sources were refereed to during this discussion, the majority of commenters argue that these titles are not common names and therefore shouldn't be capitalised, and that citing source material is difficult in this scenario, I find that there is no consensus on what the article titles should be. ( non-admin closure) Spekkios ( talk) 23:33, 14 April 2022 (UTC)
– Per WP:LOWERCASE, as suggested at Talk:List of historic sites of Japan (Kōchi)#Requested move 21 March 2022. GeoffreyT2000 ( talk) 15:18, 21 March 2022 (UTC)
If you look at the translation of the relevant legislation in the UNESCO database of national cultural heritage laws, a translation which says it by the Japan Centre for International Cooperation in Conservation and the National Research Institute for Cultural Properties, Tokyo, this uses what you would expect and how it should be, i.e, "Historic Site" etc, Maculosae tegmine lyncis ( talk) 15:17, 23 March 2022 (UTC)
"Follow the usage in sources" is a pretty hollow mantra, since sources discussing Japanese historical sites will be of different profile than those discussing, for example, Brazilian ones, [...], producing inconsistent results.Official designations of protected areas, historic sites and like should all be treated WP:CONSISTENTly, whether they are located in Japan, Kiribati, Paraguay or the United States. I don't have a strong preference for either lowercase or uppercase (both have their merits), but going case-by-case and examining sources (beware of WP:COMMONSTYLE fallacy) is counterproductive, since there will be inevitable inconsistency in sources treating essentially the same subjects. If necessary, let's have a RfC somewhere (I'd propose a limited scope only about natural and cultural heritage items) and then apply it consistently. No such user ( talk) 09:16, 24 March 2022 (UTC)
Multiples sections include "Sites" over-capitalized (I just fixed). I left headings "Prefectural Historic Sites", though it's hard to imagine that this RM will conclude that "Historic Sites" is a proper name with or without Prefectural or Municipal. We'll see. Dicklyon ( talk) 16:33, 23 March 2022 (UTC)
"If a term with a definite article has a different meaning with respect to the same term without the article, the term with the article can be used as the name of a Wikipedia article ... For example, "crown" means the headgear worn by a monarch or other high dignitaries, while "The Crown" is a term used to indicate the government authority and the property of that government in a monarchy."In this case, the capitalization is being used to convey the indication that the term is an officially conferred designation. That seems potentially contrary to MOS:SIGNIFCAPS, and it could be a slippery slope, but I think it is what is motivating the opposition to the downcasing. (Being capitalized doesn't mean they are proper names in the grammatical sense, of course.) — BarrelProof ( talk) 21:45, 23 March 2022 (UTC)