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The burial mound practice was also very well known in North America, around the mid-west, esp. Ohio Valley starting around 3,000 years BP or more.
The famous mound builder culture, who they were, remains a great mystery.
We know that the later mound builders were certainly Native American, but the earliest builders of the "conical mounds" have not been satisfactorily identified. One of the most intriguing clues we have about the early mound builders was the gigantic proportions of their physicality often reported by early settlers and even the Smithsonian in several instances. These skeletons were in some cases between 7 and 8 feet of length, i.e. 12th Annual Report of the Bureau of Ethnology to the Secretary of the Smithsonian Institution 1890-1891 (published in 1894)(Kanawha County, West Virginia).
For more information about the mysterious mound builders in north America, visit: moundbuilders.org
I have the intention (I don't have the time right now, but say in a couple of days) to separate the Kurgan and Burial mound articles. Sure, Kurgan means burial mound, in Russian. In english, however, burial mound is the generic term, applicable to such mounds of any period, in any location, while Kurgan is restricted to Black Sea/Steppe barrows, and it only ever entered the english language because of the theories of Gimbutas'. The Kurgan article should therefore concentrate on the Kurgan hypothesis, while the burial mound article should compare the different kinds of barrows all over the world. dab 12:10, 10 Sep 2004 (UTC)
Wiglaf, you do realize that the "swept away" you removed was there to represent Gimbutas' increasingly extreme views, and was not the "article talking"? dab 13:19, 7 Nov 2004 (UTC)
Kurgan (кургáн) is the Russian word (of Turkic origin) - what does it mean and why is it important enough to be in the lead first sentence? And isn't it Turkish not Turkic? I thought it was an English word (after all this is an en.wiki...) of Turkish origin. Or is it English word or Russian origin, and the Russian word is of Turkish orign? This is confusing and needs to be clarified. Note the word is also used in Polish (kurhan). -- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus Talk 22:31, 5 Apr 2005 (UTC)
It is no more russian than english word;) It is turkic word, probably from tatar origin.
In modern Turkish, "Kur" is a verb in command mode which means "build". "Building a town" = "Bir kent KURmak". Turkish and all Turkic languages are additive to the end of words and sentences. It is not very common to use "gan" as an addition to a word however, as a native Turkish speaker, it makes well sense to me that "a kurgan" sounds like "a building". — Preceding unsigned comment added by 73.223.0.150 ( talk) 19:13, 30 January 2024 (UTC)
dumped in the article without explanation (other than 'however') how this ties in with the other statements (elaborate, please!):
dab (ᛏ) 15:20, 12 Apr 2005 (UTC)
mtDNA of Scytho-Siberian skeleton Human Biology 76.1 (2004) 109-125
Genetic Analysis of a Scytho-Siberian Skeleton and Its Implications for Ancient Central Asian Migrations
François-X. Ricaut et al.
Abstract The excavation of a frozen grave on the Kizil site (dated to be 2500 years old) in the Altai Republic (Central Asia) revealed a skeleton belonging to the Scytho-Siberian population. DNA was extracted from a bone sample and analyzed by autosomal STRs (short tandem repeats) and by sequencing the hypervariable region I (HV1) of the mitochondrial DNA. The resulting STR profile, mitochondrial haplotype, and haplogroup were compared with data from modern Eurasian and northern native American populations and were found only in European populations historically influenced by ancient nomadic tribes of Central Asia.
...
The mutations at nucleotide position 16147 C→A, 16172 T→C, 16223 C→T, 16248 C→T, and 16355 C→T correspond to substitutions characteristic of the Eurasian haplogroup N1a (Richards et al. 2000). The haplotype comparison with the mtDNA sequences of 8534 individuals showed that this sequence was not found in any other population.
...
The N1a haplogroup was not observed among the native American, east Asian, Siberian, Central Asian, and western European populations. The geographic distribution of haplogroup N1a is restricted to regions neighboring the Eurasian steppe zone. Its frequency is very low, less than 1.5% (Table 6), in the populations located in the western and southwestern areas of the Eurasian steppe. Haplogroup N1a is, however, more frequent in the populations of the southeastern region of the Eurasian steppe, as in Iran (but only 12 individuals were studied) and southeastern India (Karnataka and Andhra Pradesh territories). More precisely, in India haplogroup N1a is absent from the Dravidic-speaking population and is present in only five Indo-Aryan-speaking individuals, four of whom belonged to the Havik group, an upper Brahman caste (Mountain et al. 1995).
...
The absence of the Eurasian haplogroup N1a in the 490 modern individuals of Central Asia (Shields et al. 1993; Kolman et al. 1996; Comas et al. 1998; Derenko et al. 2000; Yao et al. 2000; Yao, Nie et al. 2002) suggests changes in the genetic structure of Central Asian populations, probably as a result of Asian population movements to the west during the past 2500 years.
AAPA 2004
East of Eden, west of Cathay: An investigation of Bronze Age interactions along the Great Silk Road.
B.E. Hemphill.
The Great Silk Road has long been known as a conduit for contacts between East and West. Until recently, these interactions were believed to date no earlier than the second century B.C. However, recent discoveries in the Tarim Basin of Xinjiang (western China) suggest that initial contact may have occurred during the first half of the second millennium B.C. The site of Yanbulaq has been offered as empirical evidence for direct physical contact between Eastern and Western populations, due to architectural, agricultural, and metallurgical practices like those from the West, ceramic vessels like those from the East, and human remains identified as encompassing both Europoid and Mongoloid physical types.
Eight cranial measurements from 30 Aeneolithic, Bronze Age, Iron Age and modern samples, encompassing 1505 adults from the Russian steppe, China, Central Asia, Iran, Tibet, Nepal and the Indus Valley were compared to test whether those inhabitants of Yanbulaq identified as Europoid and Mongoloid exhibit closest phenetic affinities to Russian steppe and Chinese samples, respectively. Differences between samples were compared with Mahalanobis generalized distance (d2), and patterns of phenetic affinity were assessed with cluster analysis, multidimensional scaling, and principal coordinates analysis.
Results indicate that, despite identification as Europoid and Mongoloid, inhabitants of Yanbulaq exhibit closest affinities to one another. No one recovered from Yanbulaq exhibits affinity to Russian steppe samples. Rather, the people of Yanbulaq possess closest affinities to other Bronze Age Tarim Basin dwellers, intermediate affinities to residents of the Indus Valley, and only distant affinities to Chinese and Tibetan samples
User Dbachmann twice reverted my edits regarding Kurgan as a placename in Russia. In the disamb line above the lead, I edited: "This article is about Bronze Age burial mounds and the Kurgan culture. See Kurgan Oblast for the Russian district of that name" to "... See Kurgan, Kurgan_Oblast for the Russian city of that name". People who are interested in the oblast will type in "Kurgan Oblast", which leads to this page. One can only get to the page in question when looking for the city/town of Kurgan (oh, and, BTW, an oblast is not a district, it's a province and is subdivided into several districts of its own).
Towards the end of the first subsection I edited "Several towns in Russia are called Kurgan, as well as one oblast <...>, named after its capital" to "Several places in Russia are called Kurgan, including one town, seat of its own oblast" (emphasis mine). First of all, of the 1092 towns and cities in Russia (not thousands, as user Dbachmann claims on my talk page - see the discussion) only one is called Kurgan. Second, the oblast is not called Kurgan at all, it's called Kurgan Oblast (Kurganskaya oblast). Let's reach a consensus on the talk page before you start an edit war, shall we? -- apoivre 19:25, 4 August 2005 (UTC)
If more than two, then <noiwiki>
</nowiki> must be used. Both of you should have knwon this by now, with your editing experience. mikka (t) 19:55, 4 August 2005 (UTC)
I've edited this for links. As you will see, the number of red links is fewer. These remain:
These I have no clue to.
Thanks mikka. I've plumped out Samara culture (added Samara bend). Maykop culture has been redone. -- FourthAve 05:49, 5 August 2005 (UTC)
The Czech word for "kurgan" is "zuran." A few kilometers east of Brno, the second largest city in the Czech Republic, there's a famous burial mound called "Zuran." The Germanic Lombards and/or Heruli buried one or more members of their nobility there in the 5th century AD (if I remember correctly). Interestingly, in 1805 Napoleon Bonaparte used this hill as his "command center" during the most critical part of the famous "Battle of Austerlitz." (If you Google "zuran," you will find images of the burial mound in the context of the battle.) Does anyone here know if it was used as a burial mound earlier than the Lombards/Heruli by completely different peoples(s)? "Corded Ware," etc, etc? Thanks (TWG) Thomas Graves 05:28, 23 February 2006 (UTC)
My Iranian supermacist friends, you need to stop your debauchery and start understanding what you were told:
"Gimbutas' increasingly extreme views" dab 13:19, 7 Nov 2004 (UTC)
"the word is also used in Polish (kurhan). --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus Talk 22:31, 5 Apr 2005 (UTC)
WP does not have "only English" rule. If it existed, half of WP references would be incapacitated. Deleting references and contents under pretense of "only English" is vandalism. The reason that in "Ossetian Language" you were given a slack was that you asked for 2 mo time and promised to bring referenced material showing composition of the Ossetian language. The deadline is coming, and you need to perform or apologyze. Barefact 22:10, 13 October 2006 (UTC)
Guys, try to be civil to each other. Comment on the text not on contributors. Clauses like My Iranian supermacist friends or stop bringing nonsense from your pan-turkist website are certainly beyond the Pale (although indeed most personal websites are not WP:RS pan-turkist or not). You both are very knowledgeable fellows, try to be friendly or at least polite to each other. abakharev 06:57, 14 October 2006 (UTC)
Ali isn't an "Iranian supremacist", and it is extremely poor style to call him that. It is Barefact who keeps adding ill-researched material in horrible spelling. If he now on top of that begins attacking editors and indulging in logged-out revert wars, he is becoming an obstruction to the project, and if he doesn't wisen up and edit politely, informedly and grammatically, I suppose his accounts' days are numbered. dab (ᛏ) 07:39, 14 October 2006 (UTC)
instead of fighting here, how about evolving the Issyk kurgan article? Yes, the Issyk inscription is undeciphered, probably Scythian. Speculations that it may be Proto-Turkic may still be mentioned, no harm in that. Issyk is in the very east of Scythia, and there is nothing to preclude that some early Turks became culturally assimilated to the Scythians by the 4th century BC. dab (𒁳) 10:40, 11 December 2006 (UTC)
Who advocates the point of view What their arguments are (supporting evidence, reasoning, etc.)" I expect the editors, and the admins, follow these reasonable definition.
I made an attempt to organize a gallery to show more pictures, especially most famous pictures. There are some more especially prominent kurgans that deserve to be included in the "Kurgans" article. I would appreciate critique and suggestions. Barefact 00:32, 29 January 2007 (UTC)
if this is a reference :) the same method may be aplied to show that Pizza is a Vietnamese word, i bet 1:10 we can find it in Vietnam languge dictionary
(of Turkic origin,< ref > TDK Dictionary : Kurgan [ http://www.tdk.gov.tr/TR/SozBul.aspx?F6E10F8892433CFFAAF6AA849816B2EF05A79F75456518CA&Kelime=kurgan ]</ref> korugan "shelter"
the link will give
There is no word of old turic origin or etymological explanation, just bounced reference in hope that the english Wikipedian wil not understnd the entry or will not dare to check it. shm :( (who aded this ?)
what is your point? It is undisputed that the word is Turkic. The OED has:
dab (𒁳) 08:19, 21 May 2007 (UTC)
88.254.128.182 (
talk ·
contribs),
The English term is taken from Russian, more spefically from Russian language archaeological literature.
The Russian term means "tumulus".
Yes the Russian term has a Turkic (Tatar) etymology. This is completely beside the point. The Tatar word doesn't even mean "tumulus", it means "fortress". The term under discussion here is a Russian term with a Tatar etmymology. --
dab
(𒁳)
15:15, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
My understanding is that cannabis seeds have been found in some tombs, while Polosmak's " Ice Maiden" only contained coriander seeds, first thought to have been cannabis seeds like the ones found in other tombs. Can anyone confirm which finds verified cannabis seeds? Thanks. Viriditas ( talk) 02:39, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
The word is ultimately of Turkic origin, more specifically from Tatar according to the Oxford English Dictionary, from a word meaning "fortress".[1][2]
references link dont work
Oxford English Dictionary, ''Origin: Russian, of Turkic origin; compare with Turkish kurgan 'castle'''
not tatar
http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/kurgan?q=kurgan — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.31.51.14 ( talk) 00:03, 30 July 2012 (UTC)
Is a kurgan just a tumulus/barrow in Eastern Europe/Central Asia, or is there more to it than that? E.g. if an archaeologist was shown a burial mound and its contents, but not told where it was, would they be able to say whether it was a kurgan or not? Or is it a purely geographical label with no other significance? Iapetus ( talk) 16:27, 30 December 2012 (UTC)
So, where's the discussion? Joshua Jonathan - Let's talk! 06:08, 26 June 2014 (UTC)
This edit, mentioned above, has already been officially declared as WP:UNDUE. So, I have no hope to keep it anymore. I suggest a less doubtfully revision (01:05, 26 June 2014). It concerns the "Etymology" section (but without the Altaic cognates, since they are not allowed by the consensus at wiktionary) and the "Kurgan hypothesis" section in which the Kurgan hypothesis is represented as being opposed by the Paleolithic Continuity Theory (limited only to a small circle of scholars), the Anatolian hypothesis, and the Black Sea deluge theory. -- Ragdeenorc ( talk) 20:28, 26 June 2014 (UTC)
Here's the disputed etymology-section, with a few breaks:
Etymology
The word kurgan (‘funerary mound’) is used in Central Asia and Anatolia as well as in Russia and Ukraine, but throughout South-Eastern Europe ( Ru. kurgán, ORu. kurganu, Ukr. kurhán, BRu. kurhan, Pol. kurhan, kurchan, kuran ‘mound’; Rum. gurgan, dial. Hung. korhány), borrowed from Tat., Osm., Kum. kurgan, from Old Turkic kurgan "fortification", cf. Kirg. and Jagat. korgan, Karakirg. korgon, all from Turkotat. kurgamak "to fortify", kurmak "to erect". [1] The Old Turk. word stem qur-, of which kurgan is a derivation, [2] comes from Proto-Turkic *Kur- ("to erect (a building), to establish"), possibly from Proto-Altaic *kuri ("wattle, fence, enclosure, building"), cf. Middle Jap. kuru-wa ("fortress embankment; quarter"), Tung. *kori ("frame, blockhouse; cage; shed") and Mong. *kürijen ("enclosure"). [3] |
References
|
Joshua Jonathan - Let's talk! 07:46, 27 June 2014 (UTC)
And here are some of Mario Alinei's insights:
Marija Gimbutas' Kurgan hypothesis is opposed by Paleolithic Continuity Theory (limited only to a small circle of scholars), which associates Pit Grave and Sredny Stog Kurgan cultures with Turkic peoples, [1] and the Anatolian hypothesis, and is also opposed by the Black Sea deluge theory. |
References |
Joshua Jonathan - Let's talk! 07:46, 27 June 2014 (UTC)
Mario Alinei states that the word kurgan could be attributed to the spread of the Yamnaya and Kurgan cultures (Alinei 2000, 2003), suggesting that this Turkic word was borrowed into Slavic and other Indo-European languages with a wide diffusion area in Southern Europe. [1] |
References
|
Joshua Jonathan - Let's talk! 08:03, 27 June 2014 (UTC)
The article is very unclear regarding the origins and chronology. When did the use of kurgans start? With which culture? When did it spread? And whence the Turkish word "kurgan"? Joshua Jonathan - Let's talk! 09:54, 27 June 2014 (UTC)
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The burial mound practice was also very well known in North America, around the mid-west, esp. Ohio Valley starting around 3,000 years BP or more.
The famous mound builder culture, who they were, remains a great mystery.
We know that the later mound builders were certainly Native American, but the earliest builders of the "conical mounds" have not been satisfactorily identified. One of the most intriguing clues we have about the early mound builders was the gigantic proportions of their physicality often reported by early settlers and even the Smithsonian in several instances. These skeletons were in some cases between 7 and 8 feet of length, i.e. 12th Annual Report of the Bureau of Ethnology to the Secretary of the Smithsonian Institution 1890-1891 (published in 1894)(Kanawha County, West Virginia).
For more information about the mysterious mound builders in north America, visit: moundbuilders.org
I have the intention (I don't have the time right now, but say in a couple of days) to separate the Kurgan and Burial mound articles. Sure, Kurgan means burial mound, in Russian. In english, however, burial mound is the generic term, applicable to such mounds of any period, in any location, while Kurgan is restricted to Black Sea/Steppe barrows, and it only ever entered the english language because of the theories of Gimbutas'. The Kurgan article should therefore concentrate on the Kurgan hypothesis, while the burial mound article should compare the different kinds of barrows all over the world. dab 12:10, 10 Sep 2004 (UTC)
Wiglaf, you do realize that the "swept away" you removed was there to represent Gimbutas' increasingly extreme views, and was not the "article talking"? dab 13:19, 7 Nov 2004 (UTC)
Kurgan (кургáн) is the Russian word (of Turkic origin) - what does it mean and why is it important enough to be in the lead first sentence? And isn't it Turkish not Turkic? I thought it was an English word (after all this is an en.wiki...) of Turkish origin. Or is it English word or Russian origin, and the Russian word is of Turkish orign? This is confusing and needs to be clarified. Note the word is also used in Polish (kurhan). -- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus Talk 22:31, 5 Apr 2005 (UTC)
It is no more russian than english word;) It is turkic word, probably from tatar origin.
In modern Turkish, "Kur" is a verb in command mode which means "build". "Building a town" = "Bir kent KURmak". Turkish and all Turkic languages are additive to the end of words and sentences. It is not very common to use "gan" as an addition to a word however, as a native Turkish speaker, it makes well sense to me that "a kurgan" sounds like "a building". — Preceding unsigned comment added by 73.223.0.150 ( talk) 19:13, 30 January 2024 (UTC)
dumped in the article without explanation (other than 'however') how this ties in with the other statements (elaborate, please!):
dab (ᛏ) 15:20, 12 Apr 2005 (UTC)
mtDNA of Scytho-Siberian skeleton Human Biology 76.1 (2004) 109-125
Genetic Analysis of a Scytho-Siberian Skeleton and Its Implications for Ancient Central Asian Migrations
François-X. Ricaut et al.
Abstract The excavation of a frozen grave on the Kizil site (dated to be 2500 years old) in the Altai Republic (Central Asia) revealed a skeleton belonging to the Scytho-Siberian population. DNA was extracted from a bone sample and analyzed by autosomal STRs (short tandem repeats) and by sequencing the hypervariable region I (HV1) of the mitochondrial DNA. The resulting STR profile, mitochondrial haplotype, and haplogroup were compared with data from modern Eurasian and northern native American populations and were found only in European populations historically influenced by ancient nomadic tribes of Central Asia.
...
The mutations at nucleotide position 16147 C→A, 16172 T→C, 16223 C→T, 16248 C→T, and 16355 C→T correspond to substitutions characteristic of the Eurasian haplogroup N1a (Richards et al. 2000). The haplotype comparison with the mtDNA sequences of 8534 individuals showed that this sequence was not found in any other population.
...
The N1a haplogroup was not observed among the native American, east Asian, Siberian, Central Asian, and western European populations. The geographic distribution of haplogroup N1a is restricted to regions neighboring the Eurasian steppe zone. Its frequency is very low, less than 1.5% (Table 6), in the populations located in the western and southwestern areas of the Eurasian steppe. Haplogroup N1a is, however, more frequent in the populations of the southeastern region of the Eurasian steppe, as in Iran (but only 12 individuals were studied) and southeastern India (Karnataka and Andhra Pradesh territories). More precisely, in India haplogroup N1a is absent from the Dravidic-speaking population and is present in only five Indo-Aryan-speaking individuals, four of whom belonged to the Havik group, an upper Brahman caste (Mountain et al. 1995).
...
The absence of the Eurasian haplogroup N1a in the 490 modern individuals of Central Asia (Shields et al. 1993; Kolman et al. 1996; Comas et al. 1998; Derenko et al. 2000; Yao et al. 2000; Yao, Nie et al. 2002) suggests changes in the genetic structure of Central Asian populations, probably as a result of Asian population movements to the west during the past 2500 years.
AAPA 2004
East of Eden, west of Cathay: An investigation of Bronze Age interactions along the Great Silk Road.
B.E. Hemphill.
The Great Silk Road has long been known as a conduit for contacts between East and West. Until recently, these interactions were believed to date no earlier than the second century B.C. However, recent discoveries in the Tarim Basin of Xinjiang (western China) suggest that initial contact may have occurred during the first half of the second millennium B.C. The site of Yanbulaq has been offered as empirical evidence for direct physical contact between Eastern and Western populations, due to architectural, agricultural, and metallurgical practices like those from the West, ceramic vessels like those from the East, and human remains identified as encompassing both Europoid and Mongoloid physical types.
Eight cranial measurements from 30 Aeneolithic, Bronze Age, Iron Age and modern samples, encompassing 1505 adults from the Russian steppe, China, Central Asia, Iran, Tibet, Nepal and the Indus Valley were compared to test whether those inhabitants of Yanbulaq identified as Europoid and Mongoloid exhibit closest phenetic affinities to Russian steppe and Chinese samples, respectively. Differences between samples were compared with Mahalanobis generalized distance (d2), and patterns of phenetic affinity were assessed with cluster analysis, multidimensional scaling, and principal coordinates analysis.
Results indicate that, despite identification as Europoid and Mongoloid, inhabitants of Yanbulaq exhibit closest affinities to one another. No one recovered from Yanbulaq exhibits affinity to Russian steppe samples. Rather, the people of Yanbulaq possess closest affinities to other Bronze Age Tarim Basin dwellers, intermediate affinities to residents of the Indus Valley, and only distant affinities to Chinese and Tibetan samples
User Dbachmann twice reverted my edits regarding Kurgan as a placename in Russia. In the disamb line above the lead, I edited: "This article is about Bronze Age burial mounds and the Kurgan culture. See Kurgan Oblast for the Russian district of that name" to "... See Kurgan, Kurgan_Oblast for the Russian city of that name". People who are interested in the oblast will type in "Kurgan Oblast", which leads to this page. One can only get to the page in question when looking for the city/town of Kurgan (oh, and, BTW, an oblast is not a district, it's a province and is subdivided into several districts of its own).
Towards the end of the first subsection I edited "Several towns in Russia are called Kurgan, as well as one oblast <...>, named after its capital" to "Several places in Russia are called Kurgan, including one town, seat of its own oblast" (emphasis mine). First of all, of the 1092 towns and cities in Russia (not thousands, as user Dbachmann claims on my talk page - see the discussion) only one is called Kurgan. Second, the oblast is not called Kurgan at all, it's called Kurgan Oblast (Kurganskaya oblast). Let's reach a consensus on the talk page before you start an edit war, shall we? -- apoivre 19:25, 4 August 2005 (UTC)
If more than two, then <noiwiki>
</nowiki> must be used. Both of you should have knwon this by now, with your editing experience. mikka (t) 19:55, 4 August 2005 (UTC)
I've edited this for links. As you will see, the number of red links is fewer. These remain:
These I have no clue to.
Thanks mikka. I've plumped out Samara culture (added Samara bend). Maykop culture has been redone. -- FourthAve 05:49, 5 August 2005 (UTC)
The Czech word for "kurgan" is "zuran." A few kilometers east of Brno, the second largest city in the Czech Republic, there's a famous burial mound called "Zuran." The Germanic Lombards and/or Heruli buried one or more members of their nobility there in the 5th century AD (if I remember correctly). Interestingly, in 1805 Napoleon Bonaparte used this hill as his "command center" during the most critical part of the famous "Battle of Austerlitz." (If you Google "zuran," you will find images of the burial mound in the context of the battle.) Does anyone here know if it was used as a burial mound earlier than the Lombards/Heruli by completely different peoples(s)? "Corded Ware," etc, etc? Thanks (TWG) Thomas Graves 05:28, 23 February 2006 (UTC)
My Iranian supermacist friends, you need to stop your debauchery and start understanding what you were told:
"Gimbutas' increasingly extreme views" dab 13:19, 7 Nov 2004 (UTC)
"the word is also used in Polish (kurhan). --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus Talk 22:31, 5 Apr 2005 (UTC)
WP does not have "only English" rule. If it existed, half of WP references would be incapacitated. Deleting references and contents under pretense of "only English" is vandalism. The reason that in "Ossetian Language" you were given a slack was that you asked for 2 mo time and promised to bring referenced material showing composition of the Ossetian language. The deadline is coming, and you need to perform or apologyze. Barefact 22:10, 13 October 2006 (UTC)
Guys, try to be civil to each other. Comment on the text not on contributors. Clauses like My Iranian supermacist friends or stop bringing nonsense from your pan-turkist website are certainly beyond the Pale (although indeed most personal websites are not WP:RS pan-turkist or not). You both are very knowledgeable fellows, try to be friendly or at least polite to each other. abakharev 06:57, 14 October 2006 (UTC)
Ali isn't an "Iranian supremacist", and it is extremely poor style to call him that. It is Barefact who keeps adding ill-researched material in horrible spelling. If he now on top of that begins attacking editors and indulging in logged-out revert wars, he is becoming an obstruction to the project, and if he doesn't wisen up and edit politely, informedly and grammatically, I suppose his accounts' days are numbered. dab (ᛏ) 07:39, 14 October 2006 (UTC)
instead of fighting here, how about evolving the Issyk kurgan article? Yes, the Issyk inscription is undeciphered, probably Scythian. Speculations that it may be Proto-Turkic may still be mentioned, no harm in that. Issyk is in the very east of Scythia, and there is nothing to preclude that some early Turks became culturally assimilated to the Scythians by the 4th century BC. dab (𒁳) 10:40, 11 December 2006 (UTC)
Who advocates the point of view What their arguments are (supporting evidence, reasoning, etc.)" I expect the editors, and the admins, follow these reasonable definition.
I made an attempt to organize a gallery to show more pictures, especially most famous pictures. There are some more especially prominent kurgans that deserve to be included in the "Kurgans" article. I would appreciate critique and suggestions. Barefact 00:32, 29 January 2007 (UTC)
if this is a reference :) the same method may be aplied to show that Pizza is a Vietnamese word, i bet 1:10 we can find it in Vietnam languge dictionary
(of Turkic origin,< ref > TDK Dictionary : Kurgan [ http://www.tdk.gov.tr/TR/SozBul.aspx?F6E10F8892433CFFAAF6AA849816B2EF05A79F75456518CA&Kelime=kurgan ]</ref> korugan "shelter"
the link will give
There is no word of old turic origin or etymological explanation, just bounced reference in hope that the english Wikipedian wil not understnd the entry or will not dare to check it. shm :( (who aded this ?)
what is your point? It is undisputed that the word is Turkic. The OED has:
dab (𒁳) 08:19, 21 May 2007 (UTC)
88.254.128.182 (
talk ·
contribs),
The English term is taken from Russian, more spefically from Russian language archaeological literature.
The Russian term means "tumulus".
Yes the Russian term has a Turkic (Tatar) etymology. This is completely beside the point. The Tatar word doesn't even mean "tumulus", it means "fortress". The term under discussion here is a Russian term with a Tatar etmymology. --
dab
(𒁳)
15:15, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
My understanding is that cannabis seeds have been found in some tombs, while Polosmak's " Ice Maiden" only contained coriander seeds, first thought to have been cannabis seeds like the ones found in other tombs. Can anyone confirm which finds verified cannabis seeds? Thanks. Viriditas ( talk) 02:39, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
The word is ultimately of Turkic origin, more specifically from Tatar according to the Oxford English Dictionary, from a word meaning "fortress".[1][2]
references link dont work
Oxford English Dictionary, ''Origin: Russian, of Turkic origin; compare with Turkish kurgan 'castle'''
not tatar
http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/kurgan?q=kurgan — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.31.51.14 ( talk) 00:03, 30 July 2012 (UTC)
Is a kurgan just a tumulus/barrow in Eastern Europe/Central Asia, or is there more to it than that? E.g. if an archaeologist was shown a burial mound and its contents, but not told where it was, would they be able to say whether it was a kurgan or not? Or is it a purely geographical label with no other significance? Iapetus ( talk) 16:27, 30 December 2012 (UTC)
So, where's the discussion? Joshua Jonathan - Let's talk! 06:08, 26 June 2014 (UTC)
This edit, mentioned above, has already been officially declared as WP:UNDUE. So, I have no hope to keep it anymore. I suggest a less doubtfully revision (01:05, 26 June 2014). It concerns the "Etymology" section (but without the Altaic cognates, since they are not allowed by the consensus at wiktionary) and the "Kurgan hypothesis" section in which the Kurgan hypothesis is represented as being opposed by the Paleolithic Continuity Theory (limited only to a small circle of scholars), the Anatolian hypothesis, and the Black Sea deluge theory. -- Ragdeenorc ( talk) 20:28, 26 June 2014 (UTC)
Here's the disputed etymology-section, with a few breaks:
Etymology
The word kurgan (‘funerary mound’) is used in Central Asia and Anatolia as well as in Russia and Ukraine, but throughout South-Eastern Europe ( Ru. kurgán, ORu. kurganu, Ukr. kurhán, BRu. kurhan, Pol. kurhan, kurchan, kuran ‘mound’; Rum. gurgan, dial. Hung. korhány), borrowed from Tat., Osm., Kum. kurgan, from Old Turkic kurgan "fortification", cf. Kirg. and Jagat. korgan, Karakirg. korgon, all from Turkotat. kurgamak "to fortify", kurmak "to erect". [1] The Old Turk. word stem qur-, of which kurgan is a derivation, [2] comes from Proto-Turkic *Kur- ("to erect (a building), to establish"), possibly from Proto-Altaic *kuri ("wattle, fence, enclosure, building"), cf. Middle Jap. kuru-wa ("fortress embankment; quarter"), Tung. *kori ("frame, blockhouse; cage; shed") and Mong. *kürijen ("enclosure"). [3] |
References
|
Joshua Jonathan - Let's talk! 07:46, 27 June 2014 (UTC)
And here are some of Mario Alinei's insights:
Marija Gimbutas' Kurgan hypothesis is opposed by Paleolithic Continuity Theory (limited only to a small circle of scholars), which associates Pit Grave and Sredny Stog Kurgan cultures with Turkic peoples, [1] and the Anatolian hypothesis, and is also opposed by the Black Sea deluge theory. |
References |
Joshua Jonathan - Let's talk! 07:46, 27 June 2014 (UTC)
Mario Alinei states that the word kurgan could be attributed to the spread of the Yamnaya and Kurgan cultures (Alinei 2000, 2003), suggesting that this Turkic word was borrowed into Slavic and other Indo-European languages with a wide diffusion area in Southern Europe. [1] |
References
|
Joshua Jonathan - Let's talk! 08:03, 27 June 2014 (UTC)
The article is very unclear regarding the origins and chronology. When did the use of kurgans start? With which culture? When did it spread? And whence the Turkish word "kurgan"? Joshua Jonathan - Let's talk! 09:54, 27 June 2014 (UTC)
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