This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
This page lists particles in a table. Each particle has an id ('id="bakari"' for example) to which one can link with an anchor. Rather than clutter the table of contents, this is in a separate list which must be maintained by hand. That isn't such a big deal since the particles shouldn't change too much.
To make things easy, one can regenerate the list from the table markup using grep, sed and awk. If you run Linux you have these. If you run Macintosh you may have these. If you run Windows you're on your own.
In a shell, run
$ grep -E -e "particle *=" <oldfile> | sed -e "s:.*particle *= *::" | awk '{ print "* [[#"$0"|"$0"]]" }'
where <oldfile>
is a file with the {{
japanese particle}}
templates (e.g. copied from the article wikimarkup.
I believe one can simplify this further by having awk do the trimming instead of sed, but I'm not bothered enough to look into that. -- Swift ( talk) 11:37, 3 December 2009 (UTC)
Japanese and English differ in thier casuse and effect statement order, however I think it would be better to translate "Niku o tabenai kara, rāmen wa dame da" or "Jugyō ga aru no de, ikenai" (and the like) to standard English style (I can't go because I have a test, Ramen isn't good because I don't want to eat meat), and explain the reversal. Comments? -- Nictius 03:00, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
Is "wakaru ka" acceptable? When using the short forms ka is omitted as a question particle, a rising intonation towards the end is usually used. I suggest it is changed to "wakarimasu ka".
Wrote sections on "ni/de" and "ni/e" and made cosmetic changes to some particle examples. I also included links to non-Japanese-specific grammatical pages, which may not accurately describe the grammatical processes of Japanese. If anyone has input on the case links, please let me know. JFHJr 20:06, 16 October 2005 (UTC)
I'm not sure who the following note is aimed at: it seems a little distracting. First we discuss an "o" prefix which may be confused with the particle "o", then we add on the kanji, then we add on another reading of the kanji as well? Better to keep things simple.
The same honorific 御 is often pronounced go, in which case it may be written as ご.
-- DannyWilde 00:45, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
Removed incorrect dake example:
The actual J phrase is kore wa nan da kke na, with the kke a colloquial ka. Also heard in the phrase ano hito wa dare datta n kke? Cheers, Eiríkr Útlendi 00:20, 13 January 2006 (UTC)
Added/replaced links to the Japanese grammar article in two places: one in the wa/ga, where information on wa/ga is already available (as opposed to a link to nothing) and is rather exhaustive; the other is at the end for reference to the particle section of the grammar article. ...Or does anyone think it's worth putting wa/ga in this article also? JFHJr 00:30, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
I don't understand the change made to the subordinate clause no line. The comment left in the edit was that there is no wa in subordinate clauses, which means the same thing as I had previously written: that the no replaced the wa in such cases. The subordinate clause is watashi-no tsukutta instead of *watashi-wa tsukutta, even though watashi is the topic of the subordinate clause. The marking of the subordinate clause no bearing on how the noun it modifies is marked, so keeki can be marked with either wa or ga, each meaning different things. Also, the construction watashi-ga tsukutta keeki-wa oishikatta is possible, so the ga in subordinate clauses is not necessarily replaced. In fact, the use of no and ga in subordinate clauses are complementary/contrastive, just like wa and ga in other conditions. So while the example currently up is gramatically correct, it no longer demonstrates the compulsory use of no that I wanted to show in adding this to the section.
Perhaps the wording should be something along the lines of "No must be used instead of wa in subordinate clauses to mark topic;" along with the original example. How does this sound?
JFHJr 07:04, 19 October 2005 (UTC)
I added a whole lot of particles and tried to be careful only to include true particles. Various postpositions are ambiguously verb- or noun-like, and I tried to keep out of that until the section at the end about English prepositions. I didn't get a chance to fill-in info for quite a few of them. Any that should go? Any glaring omissions? JFHJr 17:01, 19 October 2005 (UTC)
At this point I've added postpositions which derive from nouns and verbs because their function is postpositional, and because native English speakers might intuitively seek information about these postpositions assuming they are like particles. Do they belong here? JFHJr ( ㊟) 08:54, 22 October 2005 (UTC)
A relatively minor point, but I note that some entries indicate combined joshi, and some don't -- demo vs bakarika, for instance. Unless anyone has strong objections, I move to make this consistent, ideally by pointing out joshi combinations and etymologies (kashira as an abbreviation of ka shiranu, lit. "I don't know if it's X (but it might be)"). Cheers, Eiríkr Útlendi 00:12, 13 January 2006 (UTC)
I know we're encouraged to be bold, but I want to run this by everyone before jumping in here. I've puzzled over the format of this article for a while, and though it works as a list, it seems a bit バラバラ to me. Here's an example of what I'm thinking, the current format followed by my mock-up. I'm going for tighter, conciser, less chatty, and more to-the-point. Let me know what you all think of it.
Bakari can come after nouns, i-adjectives, and verbs, meaning "just, only, full of".
It also comes after the te form of Japanese verbs to indicate a repeated activity.
It is usually written with the hiragana ばかり. Colloquially, bakkari and bakka are often used instead of bakari to mean the same thing.
ばかり
Following:
Meaning:
Following:
Meaning:
Colloquially, bakkari ばっかり and bakka ばっか are often used instead of bakari to mean the same thing.
A list of bullet points strikes me as more succinct and more easily accessible, less explanatory text to dig through. That's why I ditch the explanation of the hiragana spelling and just give it at the beginning. Also note that I want to avoid hyphens unless we're dealing with a compound noun that simply looks too long written all together in romaji. So not "Tōkyō-wa hito-bakari desu", but rather "Tōkyō wa hito bakari desu".
This takes up more space vertically, so one thought might be to put the "Following" and "Meaning" bits into a table, with "Following" on the left and "Meaning" on the right.
Anyway, your thoughts, please! :) Cheers, Eiríkr Útlendi 06:17, 17 January 2006 (UTC)
の (乃) [not a serious proposition for no; just if there were non-obligatory kanji used] | [etymology, combination derivation, or fun fact here] | |
---|---|---|
Following: Function | Rōmaji | Meaning |
Nouns: posession | sensei no kuruma | the teacher's car |
Nouns: possessive pronouns | Watashi no ga ii. | Mine is best. |
Nouns: linking | kuruma no Toyota | Toyota the car [company] |
Nouns: topic marker in subordinate clauses (see also: wa below) | Kare no tsukutta kēki ga oishikatta. | The cake that he made was tasty. |
i-adjectives: nominalization | Yasui no wa, kore. | This is the cheap[er] one. |
Verbs: nominalization | Taberu no ga daisuki. | I love eating. |
Non-nominal phrases: question marker | Mō, tabeta no? | Have you eaten? |
Kuruma na |
Is it a car? |
What do ya think? JFHJr ( ㊟) 12:29, 17 January 2006 (UTC)
Regarding my proposed merge from Japanese grammar, Mkill described that this Japanese particles entry and the particles section of the Japanese grammar entry have different purposes. Specifically, this entry mentions each particle separately, providing easy lookup of a specific particle. By contrast, the particles section on the Japanese grammar page groups them by usage and leaves out the less common ones to show the larger picture.
In order to improve the quality of both entries, I propose that we move the "big-picture" content about particles from the particles section of the Japanese grammar entry to this Japanese particles entry and that we copy each single Japanese particle to Wiktionary. See, for example, the entry I just created at wikt:ばかり. How does that sound? The Rod ( ☎ Smith) 06:09, 10 March 2006 (UTC)
This "なんて" (from "などとて"), I believe, cannot be written as "何て"/"何と" ("what a ..." or something), and this "なんか" is usually written without any kanji. However I couldn't decide just to remove these kanji versions. I hope it is going to be solved. Mulukhiyya 10:28, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
At a glance, a great number of the "particles" listed in this article aren't particles at all. 何か? め? もの (perhaps supposed to be 物)? ずつ? 沿い? 達? Short phrases and adpositional words are not necessarily particles. I am going to be removing many of these shortly. I suggest reviewing the equivalent Japanese-language article over at ja:助詞 as well as EDICT for a better idea of what does and does not constitute a particle. tgies 22:31, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
In the explanation of 'kedo', the word 'okashii' was used as strange... In order to keep the english translation correct, I changed 'okashii' to 'hen'. Reason being that okashii is used in japanese not as strange, but more as crazy. Hen is the appropriate word for strange. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure about this one. Hoshi.ni.Drifting 16:13, 9 July 2007 (UTC)Hoshi.ni.Drifting
Um... 変 and おかしい are virtually synonymous in many cases, including this.
Here's some example sentences:
「(変だ/おかしい)な。おととい仕事に行ったのになあ……。」 "That's (funny/odd/strange/weird). I went to work the day before yesterday..."
「彼女に何かあったんだと思う」 "I think something happened to her." 「私もそう思う。行動が(変だ/おかしい)と思ったもの」 "I agree. Her behavior struck me as (funny/odd/peculiar)."
「政治家の家系に生まれさえすれば、どんなばかでも政治家になれるんだ」 "Any fool can be a politician if he was born into a political family." 「そんなの(おかしい/変)よ」 "That's nonsense!"
「あいつは頭がおかしい。」 "He is (bonkers/crazy/nuts)."
「それは(変だ/おかしい)。」 "It makes no sense."/"That's (funny/odd/weird/strange)."
I hope that you're aware that a lot of words don't have just one direct and exact meanings when translated to another language. For example, words like 「上げる」 which can be translated to English in a myriad of different ways depending on context. Just because 「おかしい」 can be used in a context meaning "crazy" (usually preceeded by a word like "head" or "personality", et cetera. In which way, FYI, 「変」 also can be used), does not imply the exclusion of other usages. 82.182.171.126 ( talk) 02:33, 11 July 2010 (UTC)
I'd like to make a few suggestions for additional information to add to the article, specifically around the particles ni and de. This is my first go at wiki, so I haven't made any changes directly to the article - I wanted to run it past everyone first, just to be on the safe side. Here are my suggestions:
de
ni
What do you think? By the way, the book that this information came from is The JET Programme Japanese Language Course Beginning Level Book 3 (2005) Fujitsu Learning Media Limited, Tokyo.
Clownba0t ( talk) 00:58, 4 February 2008 (UTC)
More detail would be good, I think. 'De wa' is not mentioned. andycjp ( talk) 05:52, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
While it's nice to have them there for comparison, nante for one isn't a particle, and several others are questionable. One option is to change the main article name - "Japanese Particles and Suffixes", or something more suiting. Preferably something simple and crisp that can eloquently encapsulate all of the content (nothing comes to mind right now). Any ideas? 地炎風水闇陽 ( Talk) 14:39, 5 August 2008 (UTC)
The article says this:
I personally have no idea about this sort of thing, but this thread on a forum seems to indicate otherwise. What's going on here? - furrykef ( Talk at me) 12:03, 8 December 2008 (UTC)
I suggest replacing verb+hodo example. Currently it is "Aitsu o koroshitai hodo kirai da", but actually tai form of a verb is an adjective. Therefore I believe it should be something along the lines of "Aitsu wa hakike ga suru hodo kirai da". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.252.10.45 ( talk) 13:02, 20 February 2009 (UTC)
I think the current list of tables could be improved a bit. Seeing how it's a fairly big project, I figured I'd get feedback beforehand. I propose something along these lines:
The h3 elements inside the table isn't terribly nice, but a hack to automate the TOC generation. Alternatively we could put in anchors which would require we update links to these manually (not such a huge problem since these particles don't seem to be added or removed too often and the alphabet shouldn't be changing any time soon.
Another solution would be to just stop linking to these. The TOC is already way too long and each particle section is so short that we could just as well just have people browse through the page. A slicker table would make that pretty painless.
Speaking of the table, for those who didn't notice, I've merged the entries into a single table. It might be worth while creating a template for each table row to make it easier to modify wholesale. I've done so of that on the b:Japanese Wikibook. -- Swift ( talk) 19:17, 27 November 2009 (UTC)
{{
Japanese particle}}
for the markup. --
Swift (
talk)
20:54, 30 November 2009 (UTC)This article seemed a lot more organized/helpful a few days ago... It was easier to find what I was looking for with that long list in the table of contents.-- 67.225.8.195 ( talk) 05:30, 2 December 2009 (UTC)
http://homepage3.nifty.com/jgrammar/grammar/jgr_pnom.htm mentions the compound particles での de no "at, in, with" and への e no "to, towards," and なの na no (copula) and states that they are used when modifying a noun such as 学校での人 gakkō de no hito (my own example) meaning "people at school." There are also からの kara no "from" and までの made no "until" that are not shown on that page, but as far as I know there is no にの ni no, and への is used instead. There may be other particles that can be followed by の in this way. There are other particle+particle compounds like には ni wa and にも ni mo (some are already listed in the article). The particle は wa can follow に ni, で de, へ e, と to, から kara, より yori, まで made, and の no. The particle も mo can follow all the particles that は can, but it can also follow を o. There's also the archaic をば o ba or woba (nowadays は replaces を rather than following it).
In addition, there are very common particle compounds using の no and に ni like の中に no naka ni "inside, within," の上に no ue ni "on top of, above," and の下に no shita ni "below, underneath." These also occur with で de with similar meaning, like の中で. I have also seen へ e used with these. I believe that に, で, and へ in these phrases have the same meaning as plain に, で, and へ, so の中に can also mean "into," but の中で means only "inside," and の中へ can only mean "into." 76.205.85.0 ( talk) 08:16, 20 December 2009 (UTC)
Can you add examples of when が and を cannot be interchanged? I'm just learning Japanese and would like some examples. -- Denelson 83 00:10, 25 April 2012 (UTC)
To me it looks odd to have the な-adjective sense lumped together with the other uses all in one section. As I understand it, and as the article seems to confirm, this is etymologically a completely different word, so should have its own section. I suggest these are split into な1, な2 etc., but my problem is that I do not know whether all the other senses are etymologically the same, so whether there should be two sections or more. Any ideas? 86.148.154.226 ( talk) 02:18, 23 May 2012 (UTC)
I must say that I really don't like this example because it's got three different possible meanings and I believe it needs to be changed. These could be:
Regardless I question whether an example should be so ambiguous and it's the fact that the sentence ends in a negative which is making it awkward, it's got nothing to do with the particle "って". How about "あなたって優しい人ね" "(Wow,) you're a kind person" as the example? (Admittedly I'm struggling to work out a way of getting across that the fact that the person is kind is a revelation to the speaker, but at least it's not ambiguous, also I think it's a better example of replacing って with は). Feel free to correct me - I'm no grammar expert, hence my post on this talk page first! Thank you for reading, JTST4RS ( talk) 17:42, 3 September 2013 (UTC)
I think this article is simply marvelous. It makes me wish I could practice Japanese with somebody. 172.56.27.160 ( talk) 10:50, 10 May 2014 (UTC)
I don't read/write/speak Japanese (except for a few words picked up at the sushi bar ), but it seems there are some discrepancies (in bold below) at Japanese particles § Types of particles:
Case markers (格助詞 kaku-joshi):
- が, の, を, に, へ, と, で, から, より
- ga, no o, ni, e, de, kara, yori
{{
Hiragana}}
) to:
Parallel markers (並立助詞 heiritsu-joshi)
- か, の, や, に, と, やら, なり, だの
- ka, no, ya, ni, yara, nari, dano
Sentence ending particles (終助詞 shū-joshi)
- か, の, や, な, わ, とも, かしら
- ka, no, ya, na, tomo, kashira
Binding particles (係助詞 kakari-joshi)
- は, も, こそ, でも, しか, さえ, だに
- wa?, mo, koso, demo, shika?, sae, dani
BTW, I didn't see a template that does the reverse of {{
Hiragana}}
, i.e., romanizes Hiragana to Latin characters. Is there or should there be one? —[
AlanM1(
talk)]—
22:51, 19 March 2019 (UTC)
Never knew it could also mean "or". Didn't find anything on it on the web too. Rozchwierutany ( talk) 14:19, 17 November 2019 (UTC)
Over half of this article is a table containing the list of particles. However, since Wikipedia articles are required to be primarily prose, I feel that we should spin off the table into a separate list, List of Japanese particles, so that this article will remain largely prose. Tikisim ( talk) 15:21, 16 November 2020 (UTC)
The particle も means "even if" if you put it after the て-form of a verb.
Example sentences:
「うるさくても、寝られます」
"Even if it's noisy, I can sleep."
「洗濯はいつやってもいいですか。」
"Can I use the laundry any time?"
So the sentence means "Even if I used the laundry any time, would that still be good?"
Should we add this definition to the particle も? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.8.47.126 ( talk) 04:48, 13 January 2021 (UTC)
Hi,
In the article it says: Noun: preposition Boku to ikitai? 僕と行きたい? Do you want to go with me?
The word comes after its head, not before it, so in Japanese it's a postposition. I know that it corresponds to an English preposition, but that is not what the column is referring to. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 145.107.178.197 ( talk) 15:26, 14 January 2021 (UTC)
This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
This page lists particles in a table. Each particle has an id ('id="bakari"' for example) to which one can link with an anchor. Rather than clutter the table of contents, this is in a separate list which must be maintained by hand. That isn't such a big deal since the particles shouldn't change too much.
To make things easy, one can regenerate the list from the table markup using grep, sed and awk. If you run Linux you have these. If you run Macintosh you may have these. If you run Windows you're on your own.
In a shell, run
$ grep -E -e "particle *=" <oldfile> | sed -e "s:.*particle *= *::" | awk '{ print "* [[#"$0"|"$0"]]" }'
where <oldfile>
is a file with the {{
japanese particle}}
templates (e.g. copied from the article wikimarkup.
I believe one can simplify this further by having awk do the trimming instead of sed, but I'm not bothered enough to look into that. -- Swift ( talk) 11:37, 3 December 2009 (UTC)
Japanese and English differ in thier casuse and effect statement order, however I think it would be better to translate "Niku o tabenai kara, rāmen wa dame da" or "Jugyō ga aru no de, ikenai" (and the like) to standard English style (I can't go because I have a test, Ramen isn't good because I don't want to eat meat), and explain the reversal. Comments? -- Nictius 03:00, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
Is "wakaru ka" acceptable? When using the short forms ka is omitted as a question particle, a rising intonation towards the end is usually used. I suggest it is changed to "wakarimasu ka".
Wrote sections on "ni/de" and "ni/e" and made cosmetic changes to some particle examples. I also included links to non-Japanese-specific grammatical pages, which may not accurately describe the grammatical processes of Japanese. If anyone has input on the case links, please let me know. JFHJr 20:06, 16 October 2005 (UTC)
I'm not sure who the following note is aimed at: it seems a little distracting. First we discuss an "o" prefix which may be confused with the particle "o", then we add on the kanji, then we add on another reading of the kanji as well? Better to keep things simple.
The same honorific 御 is often pronounced go, in which case it may be written as ご.
-- DannyWilde 00:45, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
Removed incorrect dake example:
The actual J phrase is kore wa nan da kke na, with the kke a colloquial ka. Also heard in the phrase ano hito wa dare datta n kke? Cheers, Eiríkr Útlendi 00:20, 13 January 2006 (UTC)
Added/replaced links to the Japanese grammar article in two places: one in the wa/ga, where information on wa/ga is already available (as opposed to a link to nothing) and is rather exhaustive; the other is at the end for reference to the particle section of the grammar article. ...Or does anyone think it's worth putting wa/ga in this article also? JFHJr 00:30, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
I don't understand the change made to the subordinate clause no line. The comment left in the edit was that there is no wa in subordinate clauses, which means the same thing as I had previously written: that the no replaced the wa in such cases. The subordinate clause is watashi-no tsukutta instead of *watashi-wa tsukutta, even though watashi is the topic of the subordinate clause. The marking of the subordinate clause no bearing on how the noun it modifies is marked, so keeki can be marked with either wa or ga, each meaning different things. Also, the construction watashi-ga tsukutta keeki-wa oishikatta is possible, so the ga in subordinate clauses is not necessarily replaced. In fact, the use of no and ga in subordinate clauses are complementary/contrastive, just like wa and ga in other conditions. So while the example currently up is gramatically correct, it no longer demonstrates the compulsory use of no that I wanted to show in adding this to the section.
Perhaps the wording should be something along the lines of "No must be used instead of wa in subordinate clauses to mark topic;" along with the original example. How does this sound?
JFHJr 07:04, 19 October 2005 (UTC)
I added a whole lot of particles and tried to be careful only to include true particles. Various postpositions are ambiguously verb- or noun-like, and I tried to keep out of that until the section at the end about English prepositions. I didn't get a chance to fill-in info for quite a few of them. Any that should go? Any glaring omissions? JFHJr 17:01, 19 October 2005 (UTC)
At this point I've added postpositions which derive from nouns and verbs because their function is postpositional, and because native English speakers might intuitively seek information about these postpositions assuming they are like particles. Do they belong here? JFHJr ( ㊟) 08:54, 22 October 2005 (UTC)
A relatively minor point, but I note that some entries indicate combined joshi, and some don't -- demo vs bakarika, for instance. Unless anyone has strong objections, I move to make this consistent, ideally by pointing out joshi combinations and etymologies (kashira as an abbreviation of ka shiranu, lit. "I don't know if it's X (but it might be)"). Cheers, Eiríkr Útlendi 00:12, 13 January 2006 (UTC)
I know we're encouraged to be bold, but I want to run this by everyone before jumping in here. I've puzzled over the format of this article for a while, and though it works as a list, it seems a bit バラバラ to me. Here's an example of what I'm thinking, the current format followed by my mock-up. I'm going for tighter, conciser, less chatty, and more to-the-point. Let me know what you all think of it.
Bakari can come after nouns, i-adjectives, and verbs, meaning "just, only, full of".
It also comes after the te form of Japanese verbs to indicate a repeated activity.
It is usually written with the hiragana ばかり. Colloquially, bakkari and bakka are often used instead of bakari to mean the same thing.
ばかり
Following:
Meaning:
Following:
Meaning:
Colloquially, bakkari ばっかり and bakka ばっか are often used instead of bakari to mean the same thing.
A list of bullet points strikes me as more succinct and more easily accessible, less explanatory text to dig through. That's why I ditch the explanation of the hiragana spelling and just give it at the beginning. Also note that I want to avoid hyphens unless we're dealing with a compound noun that simply looks too long written all together in romaji. So not "Tōkyō-wa hito-bakari desu", but rather "Tōkyō wa hito bakari desu".
This takes up more space vertically, so one thought might be to put the "Following" and "Meaning" bits into a table, with "Following" on the left and "Meaning" on the right.
Anyway, your thoughts, please! :) Cheers, Eiríkr Útlendi 06:17, 17 January 2006 (UTC)
の (乃) [not a serious proposition for no; just if there were non-obligatory kanji used] | [etymology, combination derivation, or fun fact here] | |
---|---|---|
Following: Function | Rōmaji | Meaning |
Nouns: posession | sensei no kuruma | the teacher's car |
Nouns: possessive pronouns | Watashi no ga ii. | Mine is best. |
Nouns: linking | kuruma no Toyota | Toyota the car [company] |
Nouns: topic marker in subordinate clauses (see also: wa below) | Kare no tsukutta kēki ga oishikatta. | The cake that he made was tasty. |
i-adjectives: nominalization | Yasui no wa, kore. | This is the cheap[er] one. |
Verbs: nominalization | Taberu no ga daisuki. | I love eating. |
Non-nominal phrases: question marker | Mō, tabeta no? | Have you eaten? |
Kuruma na |
Is it a car? |
What do ya think? JFHJr ( ㊟) 12:29, 17 January 2006 (UTC)
Regarding my proposed merge from Japanese grammar, Mkill described that this Japanese particles entry and the particles section of the Japanese grammar entry have different purposes. Specifically, this entry mentions each particle separately, providing easy lookup of a specific particle. By contrast, the particles section on the Japanese grammar page groups them by usage and leaves out the less common ones to show the larger picture.
In order to improve the quality of both entries, I propose that we move the "big-picture" content about particles from the particles section of the Japanese grammar entry to this Japanese particles entry and that we copy each single Japanese particle to Wiktionary. See, for example, the entry I just created at wikt:ばかり. How does that sound? The Rod ( ☎ Smith) 06:09, 10 March 2006 (UTC)
This "なんて" (from "などとて"), I believe, cannot be written as "何て"/"何と" ("what a ..." or something), and this "なんか" is usually written without any kanji. However I couldn't decide just to remove these kanji versions. I hope it is going to be solved. Mulukhiyya 10:28, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
At a glance, a great number of the "particles" listed in this article aren't particles at all. 何か? め? もの (perhaps supposed to be 物)? ずつ? 沿い? 達? Short phrases and adpositional words are not necessarily particles. I am going to be removing many of these shortly. I suggest reviewing the equivalent Japanese-language article over at ja:助詞 as well as EDICT for a better idea of what does and does not constitute a particle. tgies 22:31, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
In the explanation of 'kedo', the word 'okashii' was used as strange... In order to keep the english translation correct, I changed 'okashii' to 'hen'. Reason being that okashii is used in japanese not as strange, but more as crazy. Hen is the appropriate word for strange. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure about this one. Hoshi.ni.Drifting 16:13, 9 July 2007 (UTC)Hoshi.ni.Drifting
Um... 変 and おかしい are virtually synonymous in many cases, including this.
Here's some example sentences:
「(変だ/おかしい)な。おととい仕事に行ったのになあ……。」 "That's (funny/odd/strange/weird). I went to work the day before yesterday..."
「彼女に何かあったんだと思う」 "I think something happened to her." 「私もそう思う。行動が(変だ/おかしい)と思ったもの」 "I agree. Her behavior struck me as (funny/odd/peculiar)."
「政治家の家系に生まれさえすれば、どんなばかでも政治家になれるんだ」 "Any fool can be a politician if he was born into a political family." 「そんなの(おかしい/変)よ」 "That's nonsense!"
「あいつは頭がおかしい。」 "He is (bonkers/crazy/nuts)."
「それは(変だ/おかしい)。」 "It makes no sense."/"That's (funny/odd/weird/strange)."
I hope that you're aware that a lot of words don't have just one direct and exact meanings when translated to another language. For example, words like 「上げる」 which can be translated to English in a myriad of different ways depending on context. Just because 「おかしい」 can be used in a context meaning "crazy" (usually preceeded by a word like "head" or "personality", et cetera. In which way, FYI, 「変」 also can be used), does not imply the exclusion of other usages. 82.182.171.126 ( talk) 02:33, 11 July 2010 (UTC)
I'd like to make a few suggestions for additional information to add to the article, specifically around the particles ni and de. This is my first go at wiki, so I haven't made any changes directly to the article - I wanted to run it past everyone first, just to be on the safe side. Here are my suggestions:
de
ni
What do you think? By the way, the book that this information came from is The JET Programme Japanese Language Course Beginning Level Book 3 (2005) Fujitsu Learning Media Limited, Tokyo.
Clownba0t ( talk) 00:58, 4 February 2008 (UTC)
More detail would be good, I think. 'De wa' is not mentioned. andycjp ( talk) 05:52, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
While it's nice to have them there for comparison, nante for one isn't a particle, and several others are questionable. One option is to change the main article name - "Japanese Particles and Suffixes", or something more suiting. Preferably something simple and crisp that can eloquently encapsulate all of the content (nothing comes to mind right now). Any ideas? 地炎風水闇陽 ( Talk) 14:39, 5 August 2008 (UTC)
The article says this:
I personally have no idea about this sort of thing, but this thread on a forum seems to indicate otherwise. What's going on here? - furrykef ( Talk at me) 12:03, 8 December 2008 (UTC)
I suggest replacing verb+hodo example. Currently it is "Aitsu o koroshitai hodo kirai da", but actually tai form of a verb is an adjective. Therefore I believe it should be something along the lines of "Aitsu wa hakike ga suru hodo kirai da". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.252.10.45 ( talk) 13:02, 20 February 2009 (UTC)
I think the current list of tables could be improved a bit. Seeing how it's a fairly big project, I figured I'd get feedback beforehand. I propose something along these lines:
The h3 elements inside the table isn't terribly nice, but a hack to automate the TOC generation. Alternatively we could put in anchors which would require we update links to these manually (not such a huge problem since these particles don't seem to be added or removed too often and the alphabet shouldn't be changing any time soon.
Another solution would be to just stop linking to these. The TOC is already way too long and each particle section is so short that we could just as well just have people browse through the page. A slicker table would make that pretty painless.
Speaking of the table, for those who didn't notice, I've merged the entries into a single table. It might be worth while creating a template for each table row to make it easier to modify wholesale. I've done so of that on the b:Japanese Wikibook. -- Swift ( talk) 19:17, 27 November 2009 (UTC)
{{
Japanese particle}}
for the markup. --
Swift (
talk)
20:54, 30 November 2009 (UTC)This article seemed a lot more organized/helpful a few days ago... It was easier to find what I was looking for with that long list in the table of contents.-- 67.225.8.195 ( talk) 05:30, 2 December 2009 (UTC)
http://homepage3.nifty.com/jgrammar/grammar/jgr_pnom.htm mentions the compound particles での de no "at, in, with" and への e no "to, towards," and なの na no (copula) and states that they are used when modifying a noun such as 学校での人 gakkō de no hito (my own example) meaning "people at school." There are also からの kara no "from" and までの made no "until" that are not shown on that page, but as far as I know there is no にの ni no, and への is used instead. There may be other particles that can be followed by の in this way. There are other particle+particle compounds like には ni wa and にも ni mo (some are already listed in the article). The particle は wa can follow に ni, で de, へ e, と to, から kara, より yori, まで made, and の no. The particle も mo can follow all the particles that は can, but it can also follow を o. There's also the archaic をば o ba or woba (nowadays は replaces を rather than following it).
In addition, there are very common particle compounds using の no and に ni like の中に no naka ni "inside, within," の上に no ue ni "on top of, above," and の下に no shita ni "below, underneath." These also occur with で de with similar meaning, like の中で. I have also seen へ e used with these. I believe that に, で, and へ in these phrases have the same meaning as plain に, で, and へ, so の中に can also mean "into," but の中で means only "inside," and の中へ can only mean "into." 76.205.85.0 ( talk) 08:16, 20 December 2009 (UTC)
Can you add examples of when が and を cannot be interchanged? I'm just learning Japanese and would like some examples. -- Denelson 83 00:10, 25 April 2012 (UTC)
To me it looks odd to have the な-adjective sense lumped together with the other uses all in one section. As I understand it, and as the article seems to confirm, this is etymologically a completely different word, so should have its own section. I suggest these are split into な1, な2 etc., but my problem is that I do not know whether all the other senses are etymologically the same, so whether there should be two sections or more. Any ideas? 86.148.154.226 ( talk) 02:18, 23 May 2012 (UTC)
I must say that I really don't like this example because it's got three different possible meanings and I believe it needs to be changed. These could be:
Regardless I question whether an example should be so ambiguous and it's the fact that the sentence ends in a negative which is making it awkward, it's got nothing to do with the particle "って". How about "あなたって優しい人ね" "(Wow,) you're a kind person" as the example? (Admittedly I'm struggling to work out a way of getting across that the fact that the person is kind is a revelation to the speaker, but at least it's not ambiguous, also I think it's a better example of replacing って with は). Feel free to correct me - I'm no grammar expert, hence my post on this talk page first! Thank you for reading, JTST4RS ( talk) 17:42, 3 September 2013 (UTC)
I think this article is simply marvelous. It makes me wish I could practice Japanese with somebody. 172.56.27.160 ( talk) 10:50, 10 May 2014 (UTC)
I don't read/write/speak Japanese (except for a few words picked up at the sushi bar ), but it seems there are some discrepancies (in bold below) at Japanese particles § Types of particles:
Case markers (格助詞 kaku-joshi):
- が, の, を, に, へ, と, で, から, より
- ga, no o, ni, e, de, kara, yori
{{
Hiragana}}
) to:
Parallel markers (並立助詞 heiritsu-joshi)
- か, の, や, に, と, やら, なり, だの
- ka, no, ya, ni, yara, nari, dano
Sentence ending particles (終助詞 shū-joshi)
- か, の, や, な, わ, とも, かしら
- ka, no, ya, na, tomo, kashira
Binding particles (係助詞 kakari-joshi)
- は, も, こそ, でも, しか, さえ, だに
- wa?, mo, koso, demo, shika?, sae, dani
BTW, I didn't see a template that does the reverse of {{
Hiragana}}
, i.e., romanizes Hiragana to Latin characters. Is there or should there be one? —[
AlanM1(
talk)]—
22:51, 19 March 2019 (UTC)
Never knew it could also mean "or". Didn't find anything on it on the web too. Rozchwierutany ( talk) 14:19, 17 November 2019 (UTC)
Over half of this article is a table containing the list of particles. However, since Wikipedia articles are required to be primarily prose, I feel that we should spin off the table into a separate list, List of Japanese particles, so that this article will remain largely prose. Tikisim ( talk) 15:21, 16 November 2020 (UTC)
The particle も means "even if" if you put it after the て-form of a verb.
Example sentences:
「うるさくても、寝られます」
"Even if it's noisy, I can sleep."
「洗濯はいつやってもいいですか。」
"Can I use the laundry any time?"
So the sentence means "Even if I used the laundry any time, would that still be good?"
Should we add this definition to the particle も? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.8.47.126 ( talk) 04:48, 13 January 2021 (UTC)
Hi,
In the article it says: Noun: preposition Boku to ikitai? 僕と行きたい? Do you want to go with me?
The word comes after its head, not before it, so in Japanese it's a postposition. I know that it corresponds to an English preposition, but that is not what the column is referring to. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 145.107.178.197 ( talk) 15:26, 14 January 2021 (UTC)