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This article was nominated for deletion on April 4, 2011. The result of the discussion was keep. |
Hang on Sorry a lot of things to be written and to be continued for now I d like to do my best to improve — Preceding unsigned comment added by Lakym ( talk • contribs) 09:51, 6 March 2011 (UTC)
This article has a huge number of problems from poorly formatted references to horrible writing. That can all be fixed. However, this article isn't even close to being neutral. It lacks a single discussion of scholars who might think this theory is laughable. We could start with linguistics. This is a fringe theory. OrangeMarlin Talk• Contributions 18:31, 3 April 2011 (UTC)
Does Wikipedia really have to include every lunatic fringe rubbish dreamed up by fringe religious groups? And this is clearly not a theory, since it has no explanatory power whatsoever. Articles like this strain the credibility of WP as a serious encyclopedia. ♆ CUSH ♆ 17:11, 28 December 2011 (UTC)
OK, the article now has only three short sentences. I think it is time to either integrate this into some other article ( Ten Lost Tribes ?) or dump it altogether. ♆ CUSH ♆ 09:08, 2 January 2012 (UTC)
The topic is relevant from more than one standpoint, in particular with respect to history, but also the phenomenon of modern religious movements in Japan and Judeo-Christian influence. The corresponding Japanese version of the article is ridiculously overloaded with promotional nonsense, as was the British Israelism article until recently. Both this page and particularly the BI page need a lot of work, but this is a start.-- Ubikwit ( talk) 15:30, 5 December 2012 (UTC)Ubikwit
As the title isn't a proper noun, shouldn't it be moved to Japanese-Jewish common ancestor theory?-- ukexpat ( talk) 16:09, 15 February 2013 (UTC)
Out of Africa theory means toba volcano wiped out most of things 72kyp and all descendent of black African or plus 4% neanderthal(or slight variant). Haplogroup are ancestral study of genetic of pure male(Y) or pure female(mitochondrial). Each study only represent 0.1% of ancestries after 200 years(10 generations) 1/(2^10)= 0.1%. So only 0.2% chance for small group to leave a trace in 200 years. http://real7777.wordpress.com/science/gene Father's mother and mother's father side of genetics are not represented at all. There are 23 chromosome pair plus mitochondria so it is 1/47 or approximately 2%. Y haplogroup study only represent about 2% of genetics which are pass on in male. Basically it show who was father->father-father->father->... Mitochondrial Hapogroup represent about 2% too and mother->mother->mother->mother->... Northern Japanese, Tibetan, and Negrito(look similar to pure African pygmy) from Andamanese islands in India all have fairly similar Y haplogroup D but can look different. These studies are good for general migration trend, but it will miss small migration mix in with large population. Things like ruling class that brought metal and technology might not show after few hundred years. Anyway, 72kyp there was toba volcano eruption and extinction event around equator. Eventually re-population from various routes. In about 10-20 whole chromosome study will be done and things like intelligence/height/lighter skin/higher testosterone level etc. will probably prove likely genetic influence from middle east (Jew/Persia etc.) Perhaps higher testosterone or temper/anger gene is shared by scythian, korean, jewish Simeon tribe, japanese buraknin.
East Asia Ruler Class Migration Speculation
Origin of East Asian Quick summery:
1) Chinese pottery and symbol to Middle East 2) Middle East Sumer have empire structure, metal, writing,pottery, mason, etc 3) Middle East technology etc. come back to china in various waves 4) jizi joseon(gojoseon) by shang refugee jizi 5) Various refugee gets to japan such as Shang,zhou,qin (some through korea) 6) Silla rules was from Japanese Hogong(duke bottle gourd)=Park(gourd), Kim= egg/box found by Hogong, Seok=1000 north east of Wa.
Anyway, small merchant or refugee type jewish migration pre-silk road and silk-road is possible and likely. Things like extra intelligence are very hard to come by by natural selection. In fact it is very critical part of humans. Similarly, pottery took 2 million years and it is not going to get reinvented. So migration from middle east and back and forth after few hundred or thousand years are very likely and not impossible. -- Real7777 ( talk) 19:47, 19 December 2013 (UTC)
The author in question advocates a fringe theory based on religion and speculation.
He states
My goal is to help the western or non-Japanese Christians to better understand Japan for the sake of the Kingdom of God.
From the Amazon blurb it appears that he attempts to site linguistic evidence, but he is not a linguist. It sounds very similar to efforts that have been made by supporters of
British Israelism, and refuted.
The following links are to other various pages from related website(s)
It also appears that Hamilton Books are not peer reviewed.
Hamilton Books, launched in 2003, provides authors of serious non-fiction titles, including corporate leaders, politicians, scholars, war veterans, and family historians, the opportunity to sign with a top-quality publisher without the typical hassles and extreme selectivity enforced by other publishers(emphasis added) [3].
-- Ubikwit 連絡 見学/迷惑 16:24, 26 December 2013 (UTC)
This is misleading statement that ignores facts and should be removed. Haplogroup are ancestral study of genetic of pure male(Y) or pure female(mitochondrial). Each study only represent 0.1% of ancestries after 200 years(10 generations) 1/(2^10)= 0.1%. So only 0.2% chance for small group to leave a trace in 200 years. http://real7777.wordpress.com/science/gene Or after 2000 years 0.0002% if it was random. So it is like a lottery odd and falsely representing the fact. It is somewhat equivalent of saying there is no evidence of anyone winning big lottery prizes looking at few sample of tickets. Real7777 ( talk) 15:57, 28 December 2013 (UTC)
"mtDNA is inherited solely along the matrilineal line (mother to child). The lineage traced is the mother's, mother's, mother's... maternal line." http://www.dnahaplogroups.org/introduction.php?type=start&page=1&l=n&__atoken=__NONE__ Misleading statement that based on misrepresentation of haplogroup study should be removed. Real7777 ( talk) 14:09, 1 January 2014 (UTC)
The ainu are israelites. Japanese are all partial ainu, therefore Japanese are israelites. -- 2001:1970:5E5B:AE00:F07F:EC72:487A:30F4 ( talk) 02:28, 13 January 2017 (UTC)
The Chinese term "大秦" refers to the Roman Empire, not the "Levant", except insofar as the Levant was part of the Roman Empire.
[4]
[5]
--
Ubikwit
連絡
見学/迷惑
04:30, 23 March 2015 (UTC)
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if anyone interested to add some information to this article, please consider this blog post "Many of the traditional ceremonies in Japan and their DNA indicate that the Lost Tribes of Israel came to ancient" Japan http://www2.biglobe.ne.jp/~remnant/isracame.htm
also my personal experience in Philippines may give you some ideas! https://www.facebook.com/notes/igor-the-troll/jews-in-philippines/10156213615858916/
here is a Japanese video with English subtitles about Jewish connection https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yhlkuGwEecY Ainus were the first jews in Japan https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=endv3PVpXFg
Tada Raba and Arigato Gozai Imasu Igor Berger ( talk) 16:36, 25 April 2017 (UTC)
I am surprised that there is no mention of the work of Marvin Tokayer. Some may consider him WP:RS; others may not. He has researched and written quite a bit on this topic Leo Schlosberg ( talk) 19:22, 9 January 2022 (UTC). He is the rare Anglophone who is also fluent in Japanese. https://rabbitokayer.com/
.htm
on the end, your link didn't work.This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
This article was nominated for deletion on April 4, 2011. The result of the discussion was keep. |
Hang on Sorry a lot of things to be written and to be continued for now I d like to do my best to improve — Preceding unsigned comment added by Lakym ( talk • contribs) 09:51, 6 March 2011 (UTC)
This article has a huge number of problems from poorly formatted references to horrible writing. That can all be fixed. However, this article isn't even close to being neutral. It lacks a single discussion of scholars who might think this theory is laughable. We could start with linguistics. This is a fringe theory. OrangeMarlin Talk• Contributions 18:31, 3 April 2011 (UTC)
Does Wikipedia really have to include every lunatic fringe rubbish dreamed up by fringe religious groups? And this is clearly not a theory, since it has no explanatory power whatsoever. Articles like this strain the credibility of WP as a serious encyclopedia. ♆ CUSH ♆ 17:11, 28 December 2011 (UTC)
OK, the article now has only three short sentences. I think it is time to either integrate this into some other article ( Ten Lost Tribes ?) or dump it altogether. ♆ CUSH ♆ 09:08, 2 January 2012 (UTC)
The topic is relevant from more than one standpoint, in particular with respect to history, but also the phenomenon of modern religious movements in Japan and Judeo-Christian influence. The corresponding Japanese version of the article is ridiculously overloaded with promotional nonsense, as was the British Israelism article until recently. Both this page and particularly the BI page need a lot of work, but this is a start.-- Ubikwit ( talk) 15:30, 5 December 2012 (UTC)Ubikwit
As the title isn't a proper noun, shouldn't it be moved to Japanese-Jewish common ancestor theory?-- ukexpat ( talk) 16:09, 15 February 2013 (UTC)
Out of Africa theory means toba volcano wiped out most of things 72kyp and all descendent of black African or plus 4% neanderthal(or slight variant). Haplogroup are ancestral study of genetic of pure male(Y) or pure female(mitochondrial). Each study only represent 0.1% of ancestries after 200 years(10 generations) 1/(2^10)= 0.1%. So only 0.2% chance for small group to leave a trace in 200 years. http://real7777.wordpress.com/science/gene Father's mother and mother's father side of genetics are not represented at all. There are 23 chromosome pair plus mitochondria so it is 1/47 or approximately 2%. Y haplogroup study only represent about 2% of genetics which are pass on in male. Basically it show who was father->father-father->father->... Mitochondrial Hapogroup represent about 2% too and mother->mother->mother->mother->... Northern Japanese, Tibetan, and Negrito(look similar to pure African pygmy) from Andamanese islands in India all have fairly similar Y haplogroup D but can look different. These studies are good for general migration trend, but it will miss small migration mix in with large population. Things like ruling class that brought metal and technology might not show after few hundred years. Anyway, 72kyp there was toba volcano eruption and extinction event around equator. Eventually re-population from various routes. In about 10-20 whole chromosome study will be done and things like intelligence/height/lighter skin/higher testosterone level etc. will probably prove likely genetic influence from middle east (Jew/Persia etc.) Perhaps higher testosterone or temper/anger gene is shared by scythian, korean, jewish Simeon tribe, japanese buraknin.
East Asia Ruler Class Migration Speculation
Origin of East Asian Quick summery:
1) Chinese pottery and symbol to Middle East 2) Middle East Sumer have empire structure, metal, writing,pottery, mason, etc 3) Middle East technology etc. come back to china in various waves 4) jizi joseon(gojoseon) by shang refugee jizi 5) Various refugee gets to japan such as Shang,zhou,qin (some through korea) 6) Silla rules was from Japanese Hogong(duke bottle gourd)=Park(gourd), Kim= egg/box found by Hogong, Seok=1000 north east of Wa.
Anyway, small merchant or refugee type jewish migration pre-silk road and silk-road is possible and likely. Things like extra intelligence are very hard to come by by natural selection. In fact it is very critical part of humans. Similarly, pottery took 2 million years and it is not going to get reinvented. So migration from middle east and back and forth after few hundred or thousand years are very likely and not impossible. -- Real7777 ( talk) 19:47, 19 December 2013 (UTC)
The author in question advocates a fringe theory based on religion and speculation.
He states
My goal is to help the western or non-Japanese Christians to better understand Japan for the sake of the Kingdom of God.
From the Amazon blurb it appears that he attempts to site linguistic evidence, but he is not a linguist. It sounds very similar to efforts that have been made by supporters of
British Israelism, and refuted.
The following links are to other various pages from related website(s)
It also appears that Hamilton Books are not peer reviewed.
Hamilton Books, launched in 2003, provides authors of serious non-fiction titles, including corporate leaders, politicians, scholars, war veterans, and family historians, the opportunity to sign with a top-quality publisher without the typical hassles and extreme selectivity enforced by other publishers(emphasis added) [3].
-- Ubikwit 連絡 見学/迷惑 16:24, 26 December 2013 (UTC)
This is misleading statement that ignores facts and should be removed. Haplogroup are ancestral study of genetic of pure male(Y) or pure female(mitochondrial). Each study only represent 0.1% of ancestries after 200 years(10 generations) 1/(2^10)= 0.1%. So only 0.2% chance for small group to leave a trace in 200 years. http://real7777.wordpress.com/science/gene Or after 2000 years 0.0002% if it was random. So it is like a lottery odd and falsely representing the fact. It is somewhat equivalent of saying there is no evidence of anyone winning big lottery prizes looking at few sample of tickets. Real7777 ( talk) 15:57, 28 December 2013 (UTC)
"mtDNA is inherited solely along the matrilineal line (mother to child). The lineage traced is the mother's, mother's, mother's... maternal line." http://www.dnahaplogroups.org/introduction.php?type=start&page=1&l=n&__atoken=__NONE__ Misleading statement that based on misrepresentation of haplogroup study should be removed. Real7777 ( talk) 14:09, 1 January 2014 (UTC)
The ainu are israelites. Japanese are all partial ainu, therefore Japanese are israelites. -- 2001:1970:5E5B:AE00:F07F:EC72:487A:30F4 ( talk) 02:28, 13 January 2017 (UTC)
The Chinese term "大秦" refers to the Roman Empire, not the "Levant", except insofar as the Levant was part of the Roman Empire.
[4]
[5]
--
Ubikwit
連絡
見学/迷惑
04:30, 23 March 2015 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 2 external links on Japanese-Jewish common ancestry theory. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
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Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 06:44, 23 March 2017 (UTC)
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source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 10:26, 19 April 2017 (UTC)
if anyone interested to add some information to this article, please consider this blog post "Many of the traditional ceremonies in Japan and their DNA indicate that the Lost Tribes of Israel came to ancient" Japan http://www2.biglobe.ne.jp/~remnant/isracame.htm
also my personal experience in Philippines may give you some ideas! https://www.facebook.com/notes/igor-the-troll/jews-in-philippines/10156213615858916/
here is a Japanese video with English subtitles about Jewish connection https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yhlkuGwEecY Ainus were the first jews in Japan https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=endv3PVpXFg
Tada Raba and Arigato Gozai Imasu Igor Berger ( talk) 16:36, 25 April 2017 (UTC)
I am surprised that there is no mention of the work of Marvin Tokayer. Some may consider him WP:RS; others may not. He has researched and written quite a bit on this topic Leo Schlosberg ( talk) 19:22, 9 January 2022 (UTC). He is the rare Anglophone who is also fluent in Japanese. https://rabbitokayer.com/
.htm
on the end, your link didn't work.