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This is the translation of a leaflet from the VHP Hindu nationalist group distributed in Gujarat during disturbances. [1]
(Signed) A true Hindu patriot
-- Kautilya3 ( talk) 16:12, 1 August 2020 (UTC)
The "transition period" was between 1988 and 1992, during which both "Jai Siya Ram" as well as "Jai Shri Ram" were used, apparently the former as a greeting and a "password", and the latter more as a call to arms. By the time the Babri Masjid was demolished, "Jai Shri Ram" took over. After 1992, it was a victory slogan, an invitation to participate in the Hindu Rashtra, and an imposition. If one did not respond to a VHP greeting of "Jai Shri Ram" with an equal response, he wasn't "Indian". The Gujarat VHP delegates that went to Ayodhya for Ram Shila Pujan taunted everybody along the way to utter "Jai Shri Ram". Anybdoy that did not obey was beaten and stabbed with trishuls. And they did the same on their return journey, including at Godhra. Thus were the 2002 Gujarat riots provoked.
Here is Jan Breman, who has done an enormous amount of work in Gujarat and has a solid understanding of it:
This explains the warlike, extremely aggressive character of the appeal for a national revival launched by the advocates of Hindutva. An interesting aside here is that the greeting 'Jai Siya Ram' has been transformed into the battle cry 'Jai Shri Ram' ('Long live Lord Ram'). The Hindu supreme god has assumed the form of a macho general. In the original meaning, 'Siya Ram' had been a popular greeting of welcome in the countryside since time immemorial. 'Siya' or 'Sitha' is the name of Rama's wife. The Hindu fanatics have now also banished her from the popular greeting by changing Siya to 'Shri' (Lord), thereby suppressing the feminine element in favour of masculine virility and assertiveness. [2]
-- Kautilya3 ( talk) 07:59, 2 August 2020 (UTC)
That is greetings and not a war cry. That is a greeting on pamphlet same way as Zakir Naik or oother hate spreader utter Aslam Walequm that does not make it into a war cry. Hope this clears. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 119.74.169.63 ( talk) 09:51, 3 August 2020 (UTC)
References
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Jai Shri Ram has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
I requested removal of an offensive sentence and I got a reply "There are words and phrases in every faith that are embraced by some members and yet are offensive to other members of the same faith. The information you want removed is well-sourced and documented; therefore, this encyclopedia has no choice but to bring this information to all readers. It is regretful that the information is offensive to some. See also... Takbir.". This is the worst reason to keep offending a billion people with biased opinion based article reference and click bait online links. The reason that other religions have war-cries used while killing people doesnt mean the same fundamental applies to Hinduism. Ramayan is thousands of years old and 'Jai Shri Ram' should not be defined by few biased articles. And listing articles doesnt make the source authentic. Did the moderator check the authenticity of each article ? Did the moderator consult diverse source of opinion in making the decision that the references are applicable ? AjayROjha ( talk) 19:12, 3 August 2020 (UTC)
Jai Raghunandan, Jai Siyaram; Janakivallabha Sitaram is a line in a bhajan [1]. Does anybody know who wrote this and when?
We have evidence that it was being sung by pilgrims in 1920s.
It is said that by chance a pilgrims party was proceeding by the same train and [Chandrasekhar] Azad chanting "Jai Raghunandan, Jai Siya Ram" boarded their compartment and escaped from Lahore to continue and plan further actions. [1]
-- Kautilya3 ( talk) 09:31, 4 August 2020 (UTC)
References
I have contested Sheldon Pollock's theories in previous discussion. I think they are speculative and have been essentially disproved. So I will get rid of them when I get around to revising the background section. -- Kautilya3 ( talk) 20:18, 4 August 2020 (UTC)
remove its reference as a war cry... it is certainly not .. infact its a mantra used by us in temples Nemish1p ( talk) 00:46, 2 August 2020 (UTC)
In Nepal, people say 'Jay Shri Ram' while worshipping lord Ram. But in India, hindu nationalists organizations have misused it to torture other religion's people. Bhattarai1237 ( talk) 01:33, 2 August 2020 (UTC)
Remove as a war cry as this is author's opinion and never used in any battle. Different Regiments in India have different War Cry and slogans so this should be removed in violation of WP:NPOV — Preceding unsigned comment added by 119.74.169.63 ( talk) 09:48, 3 August 2020 (UTC)
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It has been taken into serious notice the Anti-Hindu nature of the article " /info/en/?search=Jai_Shri_Ram" The British Broadcasting Channel's vocabulary is no attestation to the false accusations of Military alignment of the the referred slogan. Moreover the claim can be made that the sole purpose of first referring to the article " https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-48882053" is to cause regardlessly hurt to Hindu sentiments.
I suggest change of "or for projection of varied faith-centered emotions" to "or for the projection of adherent belief in Shri Ram" I suggest removal of the link referred to in line 1, i.e " https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-48882053" as it holds literally no correlation with the statement of "Victory to Shri Ram" or "Glory to Shri Ram" other than Hinduphobic provocation.
I do understand the necessity of inclusion of the slogans misusage, but given that in subsection 3 "Usage", 3.1 "Violent incidents" there exists already that information I suggest replacement of "The expression was used by the Indian Hindu nationalist organisations Vishva Hindu Parishad (VHP), Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) and their allies, which embraced the slogan in the late 20th century, as a tool of increasing the visibility of Hinduism in public spaces and went on to use it as a war cry, for perpetration of communal atrocities against people of other faiths.[28]" from the Introduction to Subsection 3 "Usage", 3.1 "Violent incidents".
I suggest change of "Usage" to "Usage by extremists", in subsection 3. Usage.
This request has been made on the basis of similar discontent caused to Muslims readers who brought down a change in the introduction of the article " /info/en/?search=Takbir" "curprev 00:07, 4 August 2020 119.30.32.171 talk 33,778 bytes -1,435 Removed irrelevant and Islamophobic biases from the beginning of the article, including the impertinent mention of terrorism and politicised usage which are not relevant to the paragraph or paragraphs other than to perpetuate an Islamophobic bias. undo Tags: Mobile edit Mobile web edit references removed [accepted by Mathglot]" Aditya Nirmale ( talk) 10:56, 6 August 2020 (UTC)
I EXPECT AN IMMEDIATE RESPONSE. Also refer: https://theprint.in/india/biased-anti-hindu-campaign-begins-against-wikipedia-after-it-urges-indians-to-donate/472980/
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SerChevalerie (
talk)
13:05, 6 August 2020 (UTC)Jai Shri Ram is also used during the celebration Anonymous2611 ( talk) 08:29, 7 August 2020 (UTC)
SerChevalerie didn't you ask for WP:RS?? I provided RS, When are you going to add it??" -- merely an hour after your own message. So his response to you was justified. Be patient, we're all volunteers here, and there's no need to time each other. Secondly, each subsection of "Usage" relies on more than two sources for verification -- so the least you could do would be to provide more sources which support the content you'd like to add in, and ensure that the coverage is not trivial/passing mentions of Jai Shri Ram. Thank you, — MelbourneStar☆ talk 13:17, 7 August 2020 (UTC)
MelbourneStar☆ are you kidding me? Do you know why I asked him? You should check the timeline of this talk page. I didn't ask him incessantly (thanks
for letting me this word I didn't knew this word). He replied me in the other discussion but he didn't reply me in this discussion. That's why I asked. Also those sources are meeting every criteria mentioned in WP:RS and in WP:RS, there isn't anything mentioned about how many rs needed to be a content to be added in the article. What's needed is the content should be important for the article and Celebration content is indeed important. Still only for you I'm providing more sources. 1) https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/politics-and-nation/new-york-ram-mandir-billboard-shines-at-iconic-times-square-amidst-bhajans-and-jai-shri-ram-chants/videoshow/77386342.cms 2) https://www.thehitavada.com/Encyc/2020/8/6/City-reverberates-with-chants-of-Jai-Shri-Ram.html I can mention here other rs but they all have similar content, So I'm not adding them. Thanks and If you can add this celebration Usage, I'll be happy Anonymous2611 ( talk) 14:14, 7 August 2020 (UTC)
Why I'm saying this is important is because it was displayed in Time square billboard ( which held a significant importance in the world of commercial and its wikipage is far more lengthy than this page). Also It's used in Supreme Court of India which is the supreme judicial house in India. Both of them hold high status. It shows the importance of this slogan among Hindus. Thanks SerChevalerie for adding this and if you can add that 'Times square billboard' ( https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Times_Square) I'll be more than happy and I apologise if I insulted you in any way accidentally although I didn't mean to. Anonymous2611 ( talk) 16:51, 7 August 2020 (UTC)
This statement is too broad and seems to indicate that it is being used only to perpetrate violence. The chant Jai Shri Ram is used on many religious pious occasions including in temples, as a greeting every day by millions of people worldwide so above statement should be removed or made more nuanced for example channge to: "The slogan has been used at times during perpetration of communal violence against people of other faiths." — Preceding unsigned comment added by 73.163.184.17 ( talk) 18:39, 7 August 2020 (UTC)
In the events leading up to the Godhra train burning of February 2002, supporters of the Gujarat VHP and its affiliated organisations like the Bajrang Dal forced Muslims to chant "Jai Shri Ram" on their return journey from Ayodhya, including at Godhra. They were returning in the Sabarmati Express from the ceremony at the Ram Janmabhoomi.
This needs to be changed. According to the reference [41] and [42], this is a post Godhra Train burning incident. In [41], It is stated that they were travelling to Ayodhya not returning from Ayodhya. There isn't any mention of ceremony at the Ram Janmabhoomi in 2002 or VHP members with that incident. I hope someone will see this thread and change those sentences into In the one of the post Godhra Train Incident of February 2002, Workers of Bajrang Dal attacked and forced Muslims to chant Jai Shri Ram. They were traveling to Ayodhya in the Sabarmati Express.
Anonymous2611 (
talk)
15:49, 8 August 2020 (UTC)
Pointers:
1)I suggest change of "or for projection of varied faith-centered emotions" to "or for the projection of adherent belief in Shri Ram"
2)I suggest removal of the link referred to in line 1, i.e "
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-48882053"
3)I suggest change of "Usage" to "Usage by extremists", in subsection 3. Usage.
4)I suggest replacement of "The expression was used by the Indian Hindu nationalist organisations Vishva Hindu Parishad (VHP), Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) and their allies, which embraced the slogan in the late 20th century, as a tool of increasing the visibility of Hinduism in public spaces and went on to use it as a war cry, for perpetration of communal atrocities against people of other faiths.[28]" from the Introduction to Subsection 3 "Usage", 3.1 "Violent incidents".
I HOPE THIS IS CLEAR
Hi,
Aditya Nirmale, I have moved your comment to a new thread.
Best regards, SerChevalerie ( talk) 13:31, 6 August 2020 (UTC)
Credible sources as was required:
2) #Now coming to BBC(Keeping
WP:NPOV in mind ). I do not question the correctness of the article but rather I would like to debate on the positioning of the reference. If #noticed the BBC reference
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-48882053"
has been placed in line 1, where it is completely irrelevant to the subject. The article says #"The Hindu Chant that became a murder cry". Blantant left-leaning hinduphobic title that is. If you can clearly tell meWhy has that article been referred to in the first line #where it is completely irrelevant satisfactorily I will give up my claim.
Why I feel this content is Hinduphobic?
According to the second para in the lead it is clearly mentioned that VHP and BJP used Jai Shree Ram as War cry and for perpetration of communal Atrocities against other faith people. That's the work of extremists. According to you that's not the violation of WP:NPOV
Anonymous2611 ( talk) 09:01, 7 August 2020 (UTC)
Anonymous2611, I think we've covered most of what you had suggested. The Ram Janmabhoomi movement is mentioned in more detail in the "Coinage" section.
Aditya Nirmale, in addition to what K3 and Grabergs said, I'd like to mention that the lead of Takbir cannot be used as precedence here since there is no clear WP:CONSENSUS over it. Maybe if a strong enough case is made over there we might reconsider, but in any case you will have to achieve a clear consensus for this change. SerChevalerie ( talk) 16:13, 7 August 2020 (UTC)
war cry during the Ram Janmabhoomi movementdoesn't make sense since it has been used after that, too.
The slogan has since then been employed by extremists for perpetration of communal violence against people of other faithsis not what the sources say exactly but could be interpreted that way. I'll let others weigh in. SerChevalerie ( talk) 17:44, 7 August 2020 (UTC)
The slogan has since then been employed by extremists for perpetration of communal violence against people of other faiths
should be better under
WP:MNA. "No original research" (NOR) is one of three core content policies that, along with Neutral point of view and Verifiability, determines the type and quality of material acceptable in articles. Also if this slogan isn't used by extremists, then by whom? We already discarded BJP or VHP. Is it used for perpetration of communal atrocities against people of other faiths by whoever says Jai shri Ram? I don't think so. We can add the word Extremists to ensure that we are drawing a line between Extremists and Hindus who chants Jai shri ram under
WP:MNA to get
WP:NPV. Still as you mentioned we should weigh others inputs in this matter.
Anonymous2611 (
talk)
18:20, 7 August 2020 (UTC)
Then by whom?" That is for the Indian government to investigate and tell us. But it never does. -- Kautilya3 ( talk) 10:51, 8 August 2020 (UTC)
1)
https://en.baaghitv.com/amp/hindu-extremists-torture-18-year-old-for-not-saying-jai-shri-ram/
2)
http://muslimmirror.com/eng/muslim-youth-attacked-by-bajrang-dal-goons-for-refusing-to-chant-jai-shri-ram/
3)
https://m.indiaaheadnews.com/article/jharkhand-muslim-man-beaten-for-hours-forced-to-chant-jai-shree-ram-dies-332825/332825
4)
https://m.thewire.in/article/video/watch-jai-shri-ram-as-a-political-slogan-is-a-cover-for-violence/amp
5)
http://www.coastaldigest.com/news/88588-hindutva-extremists-force-muslim-youths-to-eat-cow-dung-chant-jai-shri-ram-cops-arrest-victims
6)
https://www.vice.com/en_in/article/bj9av5/hindu-extremists-push-a-muslim-off-a-train-attack-another-for-not-chanting-jai-shri-ram
In every article it's mentioned Hindu extremists is mentioned.Most of the sources are of same cases but the Extremists is used. Also if we still can't add it, then use something else that will draw a line between them and the hindus who chants 'Jai Shri Ram' only to show faith Lord Ram.You didn't say anything about "Also separate the source references of second para of the lead section between the two sentences, so to avoid any confusions
"
Anonymous2611 (
talk)
14:38, 8 August 2020 (UTC)
During the discussion above, Anonymous2611 claimed that the video speech of Apporvanand (a professor of Delhi University) on The Wire said that the violent incidents associated with Jai Shri Ram were carried out by "extremists". With the help of a friend, I have now created a transcript of his speech. [1] Not only is Anonymous2611's claim completely false, but the speech is very revealing in what it actually is:
Recall in Lok Sabha elections only a specific party leaders (BJP) were saying Jai Shri Ram. When people asked why they were saying that slogan, they claimed, in some parts of India it is not allowed to say Jai Shri Ram, so they are reclaiming the right to shout the Jai Shri Ram slogan.
In oath ceremony of Lok Sabha. Owaisi was heckled by BJP members shouting Jai Shri Ram. In Jharkhand Tabrez was asked to say Jai Shri Ram during lynching. Did you recall the election rally and oath ceremony? The slogan travelled from election rally to Lok Sabha to Jharkhand and other places where lynching happened.
Recently many incidents happened with Jai Shri Ram. People will claim that these are different incidents. And yet Jai Shri Ram is the common thing in all of these incidents.
All these people (Muslims) are being forced to say Jai Shri Ram and then attacked if they are refusing. Jai Shri Ram has become a violent slogan in itself, as it is used to insult Muslims.
Saying that Hindus are saying Jai Shri Ram as reclaiming it as a right is a lie. Jai Shri Ram was invented while running a campaign against Muslims. Recall The Babri demolition. Jai Shri Ram was popularized at that time, during the Rath Yatra by Advani. Wherever he went, there were violent acts against Muslims.
In Bihar when Advani reached Patna, there were Hindus armed and shouting Jai Shri Ram, and forcing Muslims to chant Jai Shri Ram. His Muslim reporter friend was also forced to chant Jai Shri Ram. He complied to save his life.
Jai Shri Ram is not about the glory of Ram but it is a political slogan. it is to insult and degrade the Muslims.
Hindus to greet each other said, Jai Ram ji ki, Ram-ram or Jai Siya Ram. And even non Hindus had no problem in using this to greet each other. Now Ram's name has become synonymous for violence. Or rather it has become a tool to bully Muslims and establish supremacy over them. Hindus must now think (and ask) if BJP-RSS and its coterie, should say Jai Shri Ram whenever they like but not force others to say that.
The Jai Shri Ram Owaisi incident in Lok Sabha was very shameful. We did not criticize that event. After completing his oath, Owaisi said Jai Bhim, Jai Meem, Takbir etc. to say that he was a Muslim and he could also use such slogans.
We should have criticized then that Jai Shri Ram or Takbir should not be chanted in Parliament. With these lynchings, a large section of people are being criminalized. Tabrez lynching video, shows even women and children beating him. Hindus are being made criminals so that one party remains in power. Should not Hindus see that they are being criminalized? Can't they see that their children are being turned into criminals?
Time has come to prohibit Jai Shri Ram. time has come to stop the use of Jai Shri Ram in violent incidents. [1]
-- Kautilya3 ( talk) 22:36, 8 August 2020 (UTC)
References
of "The wire" provided by me, there is mention of RIGHT WINGED EXTREMISTS. You clearly skipped the article or didn't want to mention it and went straight to the video.You deviated from my point and went on proof your point. Also what about the word?? If Extremists is not suitable then add something else. You asked me to provide rs, I provided. Then you said with this word, we won't be able to cover all the instances. I don't know what's your actual objective. Anonymous2611 ( talk) 02:58, 9 August 2020 (UTC)
My bad, I misread that. SerChevalerie ( talk) 10:59, 9 August 2020 (UTC)
islamic radicalisation proposed theory that jai shree ram is a communal violence voice. it's completely hinduphobic theories and writting with agenda and propaganda. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kaafir007 ( talk • contribs) 12:19, 17 August 2020 (UTC)
WP:NCIN recognises that Hindu deities are often given the honorific prefix ‘Lord’ in English texts/speech, but it discourages editors from including these in articles due to concerns for neutrality. Seeing this, Lord will have to be omitted in the article as Ram’s title/honorific in the translations given, even if the source translated his name with it. — I'llbeyourbeach ( talk) 00:27, 6 August 2020 (UTC)
Found this draft created by Vishaldubey5. At a cursory glance it is largely unsourced, but some of it could possibly be merged here. SerChevalerie ( talk) 04:24, 11 August 2020 (UTC)
Hello the editors,
I have been bought to notice by few of my friends that this page " Jai Shri Ram " Is vandalized. This article is completely Hinduphobic and highly racist against Hindu community.
We obviously cannot write that Muslims use "Allahu Akbar" Before terrorist attacks. That will be highly insulting to a faith. Requesting you to kindly remove the objectionable content from the article. The Slogan is very sensitive to people of Hindu faith, but vandalising the page and by supporting of such Hinduphobic act may create some serious issues.
Regards, Shaant78 ( talk) 00:48, 16 August 2020 (UTC)
I see no reason to take political party name or on any Organisation name as reference to describe "Jai Shri Ram". Clearly shows how this article is misguided. Please study or discuss this topic and publish right content. Ashwinikanth ( talk) 15:17, 15 August 2020 (UTC)
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This article includes a paragraph on Muslims having been attacked and forced to chant Jai Shri Ram. It is repeatedly being removed, generally without explanation but sometimes with comments such as "hate crime", "fake news" or "hinduphobia", and restored. Should it be Retained or Removed?
If one uses God's name for anything unethical, it is not the God's fault..Ur misguiding the belief of people by including a fight scene which goes on in almost any country into jai shree ram wiki.. The makers should remove it as soon as possible Fragilez190 ( talk) 12:55, 1 August 2020 (UTC) — Fragilez190 ( talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
Remove. - Need to maintain dignity of lord shri ram, It is not at all a war cry . Its a slogan to glorify lord ram . Switchmymind ( talk) 02:22, 16 August 2020 (UTC)— Switchmymind ( talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
Assigning th phrase to a war cry alobe is deeply hinduphopic and factually balant hate message GhostIn$hell ( talk) 05:19, 4 August 2020 (UTC)
GhostIn$hell build an article if you will as a kind of tit-for-tat response to this article proportionately discussing a negative view represented in reliable sources; however, again, please understand that won't achieve a single thing — unless your goal is to waste your time. You are disputing content and labeling it as hateful -- yet the content is sourced, reliably might I add. The best course of action would be to drop your own feelings about the issue (without trying to be blunt, Wikipedia isn't concerned with feelings) and as SerChevalerie has suggested: provide reliable sources here in this discussion, and perhaps we will be able to go on from there. — MelbourneStar☆ talk 07:53, 4 August 2020 (UTC)
In the page 'Jai Shri Ram' There is offensive content that 'The expression was used by the Indian Hindu nationalist organisations Vishva Hindu Parishad (VHP), Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) and their allies, which embraced the slogan in the late 20th century as a tool of increasing the visibility of Hinduism in public spaces and went on to use it as a war cry. The slogan has since then been employed for perpetration of communal violence against people of other faiths.[28]'
This is the slogan to chant lord Rama and it is not a' war cry' remove this content and related articles Ramkumarkolamala2015 ( talk) 06:17, 14 August 2020 (UTC)
Firstly, I want to know why is this page being locked for edits with such an iron hand and that too so long? Is it due contributors' lack of confidence in their own work? Also, despite folks here providing ample sources for correction of this article, it's simply being refused for some flimsy reasons. What is going on here? WriteOnlyTruth ( talk) 23:07, 16 August 2020 (UTC)
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The slogan has never been used against other faiths but to justify hinduism and their traditions which are into existence before all other religions came into existence. 49.36.35.188 ( talk) 11:45, 17 August 2020 (UTC)
The line "The worship of Rama increased significantly in the 12th century, following the invasions of Muslim Turks" sounded more like an assumption and we might need a reliable source cited as proof of this claim. Added, the Citation Needed template and requesting inputs from other editors on this. RamRaghubn ( talk) 13:32, 30 August 2020 (UTC)
Sanskrit scholar Sheldon Pollock connects the rise of the epic in the 12th century to the profound changes that accompanied the Muslim Turkic invasions of India starting with the raids of Mahmud of Ghazni in 1001 AD. The invasions eventually resulted in the establishment of the first sultanate in 1206 at Delhi. While “the evidence prior to the twelfth century that Rama may have been the object of worship is scanty”, writes Pollock, this changed by the mid-12th century with a sudden rush of temples built for Ram"
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Hi admin, Jai Shri Ram is not a war cry .it has represented has a wrong and it will affect the belief of Hindu people. please remove that line 103.81.192.50 ( talk) 20:24, 24 December 2020 (UTC)
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ElHef (
Meep?)
22:21, 24 December 2020 (UTC)The image of Ram feels a bit not Okay....Is it Okay if someone changes the image to a painting of Ram.... AARYA SAJAYAN ( talk) 08:11, 21 February 2021 (UTC)
Dear admins, As I mentioned earlier. According to MOS:LEAD the lead should be neutral. If you just go through the format of lead you could see that it clearly mentioned how the lead should be descriptive and neutral. Takbir being used by the infamous terrorist group as a war cry is not mentioned in its Lead. Please note that I am not writing it because I want it but because this is a particular format should be followed by your editors too. You people are human too and can have biases (No offense). I have seen one admin here is an atheist, I hope he does not have something personal against Hindus just because of BJP. One thing I want to state clearly is that I have no problem with criticizing the use in an appropriate column such as Takbir but the description should be neutral without the last lines. Thank you. Parassharma1 ( talk) 18:50, 21 August 2020 (UTC)
written from a neutral point of view( WP:NPOV) and this requires
all the significant views that have been published by reliable sources on a topic. To censor part of the lead as you advocate would not be neutral. Dorsetonian ( talk) 19:27, 21 August 2020 (UTC)
This page clearly violated manual of style just in the introduction. The 2nd paragraph should be edited to provide neutral introduction, and "incidents of communal violence" should be a separate section. The references for it are not good enough in my opinion, but that can be a separate discussion. Preacher066 ( talk) 23:39, 6 February 2021 (UTC)
The Lead is absolutely not neutral and is barely even in context. As far as I can tell from an outside perspective, this phrase is a religious/ devotional one, and has been co-opted to some extent by certain political parties. It is not appropriate for an encyclopedia to mention politics within the lead unless the subject is inherently political in nature, intent, or motive; which it's not. It needs to be cleaned up to include context of the phrase in a neutral style. — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
12.190.147.190 (
talk)
23:59, 15 March 2021 (UTC)
Jai Shri Ram is a greeting used by many Hindus, so it can be categorized as an article on Hinduism. Shubhams123 ( talk) 17:23, 8 April 2021 (UTC)
References
The phrase might have been used by some radical elements against other religious groups, but so have been other religious phrases [1].
In the cited article, to maintain the piousness of the phrase in the minds of millions of followers, who are nowhere like the radical extremists that use it to further their own purposes, the negativity around the phrase has been moved to a separate sub-section "Usage by extremists".
Religion and its expressions should not be defined by its worst adherents. I suggest moving the particular paragraph to the section Usage and sub-section Controversial. This removes the assumption that one gets from reading the article on the first go, that the phrase always has negative connotations. I hope my request is considered in good faith. Have gone through the FAQs as well, didn't find an answer satisfactory, so have chosen to raise the issue here. Shubhams123 ( talk) 05:41, 26 March 2021 (UTC)
References
@ Shubhams123: Please obtain consensus on this talk page before reinstating a disputed edit. You may find the bold, revert, discuss cycle to be a useful recommendation. — Newslinger talk 04:01, 27 March 2021 (UTC)
If you look at usage - It says - Voilent incidents, Political and 'Other uses' effectively projecting that largely this term is negatively used. while it's quite opposite. IDK What is happening to sane minds who 'protected' this article from being edited ? — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
45.125.116.193 (
talk)
02:50, 6 April 2021 (UTC)
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in this article there are few sentences that hurts a community sentiments. Remove it - "The slogan has since then been employed for perpetration of communal violence against people of other faiths." 2409:4064:4EA0:17AE:6E6F:3493:C55C:91F5 ( talk) 03:47, 21 July 2021 (UTC)
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Please Remove The Last Line and The Line Before the Last Line that tells that This Slogan is Used to Tease Other Religion;as there is not written in other Religion's Slogan's too.If You Didn't Remove this Line Which Signifies This Slogan creating Violence,which in reality is not,then I have to Sue the Editor to the Court of U.S. 2409:4041:2E83:37D5:0:0:44C9:611 ( talk) 16:28, 28 August 2021 (UTC)
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I hereby humbly request Wikipedia to remove the line no. 23 which is openly defaming the beliefs , values and emotions of hindu people in general relating it with violence , it is same as writing that allah hu akbar is a terrorist slogan used by terrorists before committing ting suicide bombings especially in India . please remove the given line or i will have to write a proper request to ministry of information Technology on following inappropriate representation of a daily spiritual salutation . Aryaman Bharat ( talk) 03:07, 3 January 2022 (UTC)
How come this article has "The slogan has since then been employed for perpetration of communal violence against people of other faiths." in the introduction itself whereas Takbir does not have it till a much later section? That too with a ready justification of three references. In fact the third one can be translated to any negative word usage.
May be I will be subjected to Wikipedia:Advocacy but I am just advocating for parity between articles on similar topics and may be moving the negative usage to a more latter section instead of introduction in this article.- 113.193.34.124 ( talk) 07:41, 19 February 2022 (UTC)
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"Change The slogan has since then been employed for perpetration of communal violence against people of other faiths.[23] To "The slogan had since been employed for Showing true faith in Hinduism. 2409:4042:51F:5C21:B6F9:1150:C13F:851D ( talk) 20:28, 2 April 2022 (UTC)
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ScottishFinnishRadish (
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21:09, 2 April 2022 (UTC)Content should be relevant and linked example : What A thinks has no place on Wikipedia . Jay Shri Ram is just to greet other people. How RSS etc uses it should not be added to Wikipedia Het666 ( talk) 16:23, 1 May 2022 (UTC)
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"The slogan has since then been employed for perpetration of communal violence against people of other faiths. This is entirely false targetting one community and needs to be removed Ashborn24 ( talk) 13:37, 9 January 2023 (UTC)
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ScottishFinnishRadish (
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13:55, 9 January 2023 (UTC)Can i just add this line at the startingof coinage section "Although the exact date of coinage of the slogan "Jai Shri Ram" is unknown."
This is absolutely true as no one knows the exact date of coinage of the slogan.
AbhishekSaini1910 ( talk) 23:19, 15 March 2023 (UTC)
@ MelbourneStar removed some of my work from Wikipedia page Jai Shri Ram, by giving a reason that I cannot use YouTube video link as a reference.
original producer? -yes
Is it used for information? -yes
Is it to be used as a reference? -yes
Is it original producer a reliable source? -well absolutely,as they themselves made that movie.
Will it improve the article? -Ofcourse
Information I added: In 1957 movie named Ram Hanuman Yuddhaa "Jai Shri Ram" is clearly audible.
Reference i gave: [ [3]]
The video in the YouTube link is the movie Ram Hanuman Yuddhaa (1954) uploaded by it's original producer (i.e Ultra Films).
What else would be the better citation than giving the link to original movie with timestamp where the given word "Jai Shri Ram" is spoken.
Moreover, the movie is older than 60 year, hence now in public domain would it be okay if just trim that part from movie and upload on Wikimedia and then cite here?
AbhishekSaini1910 (
talk)
17:58, 16 March 2023 (UTC)
These are the line i want to add
कही न बात बालम की मानी । चली रूस अतिहि खिसियानी ॥
तब माधव वीणा लीना । चल्यो रिसाय हिये रस भीना ॥
'जय श्री राम' विप्र उच्चारी । कृपा करत रहिये सुन प्यारी ॥
सुनके बाल मंद मुसक्यानी । डगर चल्यो माधो द्विज ज्ञानी ॥
[6]
https://www.google.co.in/books/edition/Bh%C4%81rat%C4%ABya_prem%C4%81khy%C4%81na_k%C4%81vya/FZtHAAAAMAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&bsq=%22%E0%A4%9C%E0%A4%AF%20%E0%A4%B6%E0%A5%8D%E0%A4%B0%E0%A5%80%20%E0%A4%B0%E0%A4%BE%E0%A4%AE%22&kptab=overview
[7] https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.425766/page/n4/mode/1up?view=theater
Bodha lived between 1767-1806. https://hi.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E0%A4%AC%E0%A5%8B%E0%A4%A7%E0%A4%BE
AbhishekSaini1910 ( talk) 18:55, 16 March 2023 (UTC)
jaya sri ram vipra ucchari
kripa karat rahiye sun pyari
My rough-and-ready translation:
Beautiful lines. I don't know where that gets us though. -- Kautilya3 ( talk) 19:39, 16 March 2023 (UTC)
Sorry, that is only good for a talk page post, not mainspace content. And they are not WP:Full citations either. For it to be encyclopaedic, we need the context. Who is Bodha, what is this poem, why did he mention Jai Shri Ram in the middle of it? Unless you have read and understood the Premakhyan book (at least this part of it), you can't do it. If you need suggest help, I suggest you initiate a discussion at the Hindi Wikipedia. -- Kautilya3 ( talk) 13:09, 17 March 2023 (UTC)
Jai Shri Ram translates to "Glory to Sita & Rama" or "Victory to Sita & Rama". Many believes that it translates to “Glory to Lord Rama” but in reality it is not true. According to Hinduism Shri is another name of Goddess Lakshmi therefore Sita being an incarnation of Goddess Lakshmi is also referred to as Shri. Being the wife of Lord Ram the name of Sita i.e. Shree is used along with Lord Ram. AbhishekSaini1910 ( talk) 16:53, 15 March 2023 (UTC)
These lines by Jan Breman contains fake information and should be removed as wikipedia is not a garbage ground to throw someone fake statements.
"An interesting aside here is that the greeting 'Jai Siya Ram' has been transformed into the battle cry 'Jai Shri Ram' ('Long live Lord Ram'). The Hindu supreme god has assumed the form of a macho general. In the original meaning, 'Siya Ram' had been a popular greeting of welcome in the countryside since time immemorial... The Hindu fanatics have now also banished her from the popular greeting by changing Siya to 'Shri' (Lord), thereby suppressing the feminine element in favour of masculine virility and assertiveness."
Let me break it line by line:
1. "An interesting aside here is that the greeting 'Jai Siya Ram' has been transformed into the battle cry 'Jai Shri Ram' ('Long live Lord Ram')". It is absolutely fake, no one changed the greeting both are used as greeting since time immemorial, as I have already added in the meaning section of the main article that According to a Marathi & English dictionary by military officer J.T. Molesworth published in 1857 (110 year before VHP and RSS), both जयश्रीराम (jayaśrīrāma) & जयसीताराम (jayasītārāma) are "forms of salutation to and by बैरागी ( bairāgī)". [1] [2] Meaning of बैरागी ( bairāgī) was given as "An individual of a class of mendicants who renounce the world and practise austerities. They are devotees of विष्णु ( viṣṇu)". [3] [4]
2."'Jai Siya Ram' has been transformed into the battle cry 'Jai Shri Ram' ('Long live Lord Ram')" It is also a fake narrative, no one transformed anything both existed as two different words, "Jai Shri Ram" was already a war cry from before. Look at it: In the novel ' Miriam' by J. F. Fanthome published in 1896, the meaning of "Jai Sri Ram Lakshmanji Ki" is given as "the war cry of Brij-land and of the races who pay adoration to Krishna ( Vaishnavism) as the chief deity of the Hindu pantheon" in the novel the expression was chanted by Hindus during the Indian Rebellion of 1857 against britishers. [5]
3. "The Hindu fanatics have now also banished her from the popular greeting by changing Siya to 'Shri' (Lord)," Once again same propaganda , no one changed Siya to Shri both were used between 'Jai' & 'Ram' in greetings simultaneously since time immemorial. AbhishekSaini1910 ( talk) 19:32, 27 March 2023 (UTC)
References
had studied Indian social life and mores at close quarters as a sympathetic chronicler and supplemented his knowledge through bazaar news from servants.[1] [2] Any opinions on whether he, and the notes from Mariam as an extension, could be considered reliable? Or perhaps we directly attribute to Fanthome?
References
AbhishekSaini1910, can you state what changes on the main page you are seeking? -- Kautilya3 ( talk) 12:54, 28 March 2023 (UTC)
I just added to this section, [18] if anyone has opinions on that. Gråbergs Gråa Sång ( talk) 12:54, 30 March 2023 (UTC)
AbhishekSaini1910, I have reverted probably the entire set of changes you have made over the last month or two. When I looked at the page, I found it almost unrecognizable. Almost all your content (some 22K bytes) is sourced to WP:PRIMARY sources, and is highly WP:UNDUE. Please find WP:SECONDARY sources for your issues, and then we can revisit them. Right now, I am putting my foot down and saying NO to PRIMARY sources, because it has gotten completely out of hand. -- Kautilya3 ( talk) 21:57, 29 March 2023 (UTC)
AbhishekSaini1910, please stop editing this article for a few days now, give other editors a chance to react. WP:CTOP, WP:CAREFUL and all that. Try to be less of a WP:SPA. Gråbergs Gråa Sång ( talk) 09:28, 31 March 2023 (UTC)
"Following the ground-breaking ceremony of the Ram Temple, Ayodhya, in August 2020, the slogan was used as a chant in celebrations in New York. [1]
The slogan was used by lawyers after the 2019 Supreme Court verdict on Ayodhya dispute. [2]
In April 2022, Jujaru Nagaraju, a handloom weaver in Andhra Pradesh weaved a 60 metre long silk sari with "Jai Sri Ram" written over 30 000 times in 13 Indian languages. He gave the name "Rama Koti Vastram" clarification needed to the sari. [3]"
References
IMO the weaver fits under pop culture (it's a broad term, modern art fits, and can someone translate the name, please), and the 2 other fits under "Politics". A Supreme court is a political body (in practise, if not always in theory), and the Ayodhya ref is full of ministers. Opinions? Gråbergs Gråa Sång ( talk) 09:25, 31 March 2023 (UTC)
I'm assuming that his "jayaśrīrāma" is pretty much the same as "Jai Shri Ram" and so not "antecedent". Am I wrong or don't we really know what he was thinking of, perhaps it's even off-topic? This is one of the problems with WP:AGEMATTERS problematic sources. Gråbergs Gråa Sång ( talk) 06:20, 31 March 2023 (UTC)
Also, per ref given [19] can someone except the editor who adds it confirm the reading? Gråbergs Gråa Sång ( talk) 07:03, 31 March 2023 (UTC)
Can anyone find whom does the word "Shri-pati" (Shri's Husband) refers to, in the 13th verse of Hanuman Chalisa.
sahasa badana tumharo jasa gāvai।
asa kahi shrīpati kantha lagāvai॥ 13 ॥
सहस्त्र बदन तुम्हरो यश गावैं।
अस कहि श्रीपति कंठ लगावैं॥ १३ ॥
AbhishekSaini1910 (
talk)
10:02, 2 April 2023 (UTC)
I want to add about Kabir Khan answer when he was asked why he used "Jai Shri Ram" in the movie bajrangi bhaijan?, from these sources, can anybody help what can I add and what not.
[21] [22] [23]
AbhishekSaini1910 ( talk) 05:27, 2 April 2023 (UTC)
By the time the kar sevaks congregated at Ayodhya in October 1990, the traditional north Indian greeting 'Jai Siya Ram' a phonetic deviation of 'Jai Sita Ram' had been sanskritised to 'Jai Shri Ram' and been given the connotation of a battle cry. [5]
The formula was in fact a modification of an existing greeting; villagers and townspeople might greet each other, Jai Ram ji ki, or Jai Siyaram, the latter name referring to his consort Sita as well. [6]
For centuries “Jai Siya Ram” has been a common form of greeting used by ordinary Hindus in the villages of North India. [7]
References
In which section should I add this.
As a devotee of
Rama,
Gharib Nawaz the
Meitei ruler of
Manipur Kingdom (1720-1751) issued several round & square bell-metal coins, five of which have 'Jai Shri', '
Jai Shri Ram', 'Ram', 'Shri Ram', 'Jai Ram' in
Devanagari script and on one coin 'Shri Ram' is inscribed in
Bengali script.
[1]
[2]Cite error: A <ref>
tag is missing the closing </ref>
(see the
help page).
[18], however this usage has been denounced by other
Hindus.
[19]
[20]
[21]
[22]
[23]}}
Or should the folowing text be removed or moved to the politics section from the lead section ?, based of past discussions and the opinion that it is biased and Hinduphobic from past discussions.
The slogan has since been employed in connection with the perpetration of communal violence against people of other faiths [24] [35]
ThatBritishAsianDude ( talk) 20:26, 21 January 2024 (UTC) ThatBritishAsianDude ( talk) 20:28, 21 January 2024 (UTC)
Sources
|
---|
|
however this usage has been denounced by other Hindus, but none of them are appropriate. The first one, 'Yours Positively', seems to be a piece of polemic by someone called Oswald Pereira. It would work as a primary source for his own views on the matter, but it's not clear why his view is particularly significant or representative of anyone; he's also very vague about what uses of the phrase he is being critical of. The TRT World source appears not to support the assertion at all - maybe I've missed it, but I don't see anything in there about Hindus denouncing the use of the phrase. Theheghousediary is a WordPress blog, it's not reliable for anything. Satyaagrah also appears to be self-published and unreliable. The Hindu American source does not seem to support the assertion in any way. In short, the assertion is, as yet, unsupported by any reliable sources. Girth Summit (blether) 09:40, 22 January 2024 (UTC)
@ ThatBritishAsianDude Again on this: [29], the WP:LEAD is a summary of the body. Obviously "misuse" is one way to look at it, but clearly there's a lot of "users" who'd disagree. If sources are good (no WP:BLOGS etc), that view can be included somewhere, but putting it in the WP:LEAD like you do is wrong on several levels, including WP:RNPOV. You're putting your religious or ideological view in Wikipedia's voice, don't do that. Gråbergs Gråa Sång ( talk) 12:02, 21 January 2024 (UTC)
Ping Newslinger if you wish to comment. Other editors, if you have an opinion, please share. Gråbergs Gråa Sång ( talk) 12:05, 21 January 2024 (UTC)
No. Frankly, we don't know enough about the history of usage of "Jai Shri Ram" to say anything definitive. I see British press mostly saying it was "appropriated" and claiming that it was devotional earlier, but they are certainly no authorities on it. -- Kautilya3 ( talk) 20:53, 14 February 2024 (UTC)
So I just checked this " Takbir" article and decided to search this article. The bias cannot be more apparent. Clearly we see the difference in the treatment of the subject. Whereas the takbir, is treated as purely religious slogan, and the overall tone of the article is also suggestive of that. But in this article the topic first and foremost has been made to be a political one with personal opinion affecting the content. I want to ask what is the basis for conclusion? I mean the violent history and nature of the " Allahu Akhbar" slogan is not a secret to anyone. If all that doesn't make it qualify to be termed as a in the lead " battle cry", then how does "jai shree ram" become one? If the WP:LEAD is a summary of the whole article then where's the mention of "takbir's" usage as a battle cry by all the terrorist in the lead section? And if it doesn't apply there then on what basis it is portrayed in this article? That to in the lead section!
The usage of "Jai shree ram" is quite old and has been a important part of religio-social lifestyle of Hindus. The fact that editors here could not find any sources supporting it is quite suspicious when the vast array of published material for the same is not scarce. Satyamsha ( talk) 06:34, 18 March 2024 (UTC)
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 |
This is the translation of a leaflet from the VHP Hindu nationalist group distributed in Gujarat during disturbances. [1]
(Signed) A true Hindu patriot
-- Kautilya3 ( talk) 16:12, 1 August 2020 (UTC)
The "transition period" was between 1988 and 1992, during which both "Jai Siya Ram" as well as "Jai Shri Ram" were used, apparently the former as a greeting and a "password", and the latter more as a call to arms. By the time the Babri Masjid was demolished, "Jai Shri Ram" took over. After 1992, it was a victory slogan, an invitation to participate in the Hindu Rashtra, and an imposition. If one did not respond to a VHP greeting of "Jai Shri Ram" with an equal response, he wasn't "Indian". The Gujarat VHP delegates that went to Ayodhya for Ram Shila Pujan taunted everybody along the way to utter "Jai Shri Ram". Anybdoy that did not obey was beaten and stabbed with trishuls. And they did the same on their return journey, including at Godhra. Thus were the 2002 Gujarat riots provoked.
Here is Jan Breman, who has done an enormous amount of work in Gujarat and has a solid understanding of it:
This explains the warlike, extremely aggressive character of the appeal for a national revival launched by the advocates of Hindutva. An interesting aside here is that the greeting 'Jai Siya Ram' has been transformed into the battle cry 'Jai Shri Ram' ('Long live Lord Ram'). The Hindu supreme god has assumed the form of a macho general. In the original meaning, 'Siya Ram' had been a popular greeting of welcome in the countryside since time immemorial. 'Siya' or 'Sitha' is the name of Rama's wife. The Hindu fanatics have now also banished her from the popular greeting by changing Siya to 'Shri' (Lord), thereby suppressing the feminine element in favour of masculine virility and assertiveness. [2]
-- Kautilya3 ( talk) 07:59, 2 August 2020 (UTC)
That is greetings and not a war cry. That is a greeting on pamphlet same way as Zakir Naik or oother hate spreader utter Aslam Walequm that does not make it into a war cry. Hope this clears. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 119.74.169.63 ( talk) 09:51, 3 August 2020 (UTC)
References
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Jai Shri Ram has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
I requested removal of an offensive sentence and I got a reply "There are words and phrases in every faith that are embraced by some members and yet are offensive to other members of the same faith. The information you want removed is well-sourced and documented; therefore, this encyclopedia has no choice but to bring this information to all readers. It is regretful that the information is offensive to some. See also... Takbir.". This is the worst reason to keep offending a billion people with biased opinion based article reference and click bait online links. The reason that other religions have war-cries used while killing people doesnt mean the same fundamental applies to Hinduism. Ramayan is thousands of years old and 'Jai Shri Ram' should not be defined by few biased articles. And listing articles doesnt make the source authentic. Did the moderator check the authenticity of each article ? Did the moderator consult diverse source of opinion in making the decision that the references are applicable ? AjayROjha ( talk) 19:12, 3 August 2020 (UTC)
Jai Raghunandan, Jai Siyaram; Janakivallabha Sitaram is a line in a bhajan [1]. Does anybody know who wrote this and when?
We have evidence that it was being sung by pilgrims in 1920s.
It is said that by chance a pilgrims party was proceeding by the same train and [Chandrasekhar] Azad chanting "Jai Raghunandan, Jai Siya Ram" boarded their compartment and escaped from Lahore to continue and plan further actions. [1]
-- Kautilya3 ( talk) 09:31, 4 August 2020 (UTC)
References
I have contested Sheldon Pollock's theories in previous discussion. I think they are speculative and have been essentially disproved. So I will get rid of them when I get around to revising the background section. -- Kautilya3 ( talk) 20:18, 4 August 2020 (UTC)
remove its reference as a war cry... it is certainly not .. infact its a mantra used by us in temples Nemish1p ( talk) 00:46, 2 August 2020 (UTC)
In Nepal, people say 'Jay Shri Ram' while worshipping lord Ram. But in India, hindu nationalists organizations have misused it to torture other religion's people. Bhattarai1237 ( talk) 01:33, 2 August 2020 (UTC)
Remove as a war cry as this is author's opinion and never used in any battle. Different Regiments in India have different War Cry and slogans so this should be removed in violation of WP:NPOV — Preceding unsigned comment added by 119.74.169.63 ( talk) 09:48, 3 August 2020 (UTC)
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It has been taken into serious notice the Anti-Hindu nature of the article " /info/en/?search=Jai_Shri_Ram" The British Broadcasting Channel's vocabulary is no attestation to the false accusations of Military alignment of the the referred slogan. Moreover the claim can be made that the sole purpose of first referring to the article " https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-48882053" is to cause regardlessly hurt to Hindu sentiments.
I suggest change of "or for projection of varied faith-centered emotions" to "or for the projection of adherent belief in Shri Ram" I suggest removal of the link referred to in line 1, i.e " https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-48882053" as it holds literally no correlation with the statement of "Victory to Shri Ram" or "Glory to Shri Ram" other than Hinduphobic provocation.
I do understand the necessity of inclusion of the slogans misusage, but given that in subsection 3 "Usage", 3.1 "Violent incidents" there exists already that information I suggest replacement of "The expression was used by the Indian Hindu nationalist organisations Vishva Hindu Parishad (VHP), Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) and their allies, which embraced the slogan in the late 20th century, as a tool of increasing the visibility of Hinduism in public spaces and went on to use it as a war cry, for perpetration of communal atrocities against people of other faiths.[28]" from the Introduction to Subsection 3 "Usage", 3.1 "Violent incidents".
I suggest change of "Usage" to "Usage by extremists", in subsection 3. Usage.
This request has been made on the basis of similar discontent caused to Muslims readers who brought down a change in the introduction of the article " /info/en/?search=Takbir" "curprev 00:07, 4 August 2020 119.30.32.171 talk 33,778 bytes -1,435 Removed irrelevant and Islamophobic biases from the beginning of the article, including the impertinent mention of terrorism and politicised usage which are not relevant to the paragraph or paragraphs other than to perpetuate an Islamophobic bias. undo Tags: Mobile edit Mobile web edit references removed [accepted by Mathglot]" Aditya Nirmale ( talk) 10:56, 6 August 2020 (UTC)
I EXPECT AN IMMEDIATE RESPONSE. Also refer: https://theprint.in/india/biased-anti-hindu-campaign-begins-against-wikipedia-after-it-urges-indians-to-donate/472980/
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SerChevalerie (
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13:05, 6 August 2020 (UTC)Jai Shri Ram is also used during the celebration Anonymous2611 ( talk) 08:29, 7 August 2020 (UTC)
SerChevalerie didn't you ask for WP:RS?? I provided RS, When are you going to add it??" -- merely an hour after your own message. So his response to you was justified. Be patient, we're all volunteers here, and there's no need to time each other. Secondly, each subsection of "Usage" relies on more than two sources for verification -- so the least you could do would be to provide more sources which support the content you'd like to add in, and ensure that the coverage is not trivial/passing mentions of Jai Shri Ram. Thank you, — MelbourneStar☆ talk 13:17, 7 August 2020 (UTC)
MelbourneStar☆ are you kidding me? Do you know why I asked him? You should check the timeline of this talk page. I didn't ask him incessantly (thanks
for letting me this word I didn't knew this word). He replied me in the other discussion but he didn't reply me in this discussion. That's why I asked. Also those sources are meeting every criteria mentioned in WP:RS and in WP:RS, there isn't anything mentioned about how many rs needed to be a content to be added in the article. What's needed is the content should be important for the article and Celebration content is indeed important. Still only for you I'm providing more sources. 1) https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/politics-and-nation/new-york-ram-mandir-billboard-shines-at-iconic-times-square-amidst-bhajans-and-jai-shri-ram-chants/videoshow/77386342.cms 2) https://www.thehitavada.com/Encyc/2020/8/6/City-reverberates-with-chants-of-Jai-Shri-Ram.html I can mention here other rs but they all have similar content, So I'm not adding them. Thanks and If you can add this celebration Usage, I'll be happy Anonymous2611 ( talk) 14:14, 7 August 2020 (UTC)
Why I'm saying this is important is because it was displayed in Time square billboard ( which held a significant importance in the world of commercial and its wikipage is far more lengthy than this page). Also It's used in Supreme Court of India which is the supreme judicial house in India. Both of them hold high status. It shows the importance of this slogan among Hindus. Thanks SerChevalerie for adding this and if you can add that 'Times square billboard' ( https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Times_Square) I'll be more than happy and I apologise if I insulted you in any way accidentally although I didn't mean to. Anonymous2611 ( talk) 16:51, 7 August 2020 (UTC)
This statement is too broad and seems to indicate that it is being used only to perpetrate violence. The chant Jai Shri Ram is used on many religious pious occasions including in temples, as a greeting every day by millions of people worldwide so above statement should be removed or made more nuanced for example channge to: "The slogan has been used at times during perpetration of communal violence against people of other faiths." — Preceding unsigned comment added by 73.163.184.17 ( talk) 18:39, 7 August 2020 (UTC)
In the events leading up to the Godhra train burning of February 2002, supporters of the Gujarat VHP and its affiliated organisations like the Bajrang Dal forced Muslims to chant "Jai Shri Ram" on their return journey from Ayodhya, including at Godhra. They were returning in the Sabarmati Express from the ceremony at the Ram Janmabhoomi.
This needs to be changed. According to the reference [41] and [42], this is a post Godhra Train burning incident. In [41], It is stated that they were travelling to Ayodhya not returning from Ayodhya. There isn't any mention of ceremony at the Ram Janmabhoomi in 2002 or VHP members with that incident. I hope someone will see this thread and change those sentences into In the one of the post Godhra Train Incident of February 2002, Workers of Bajrang Dal attacked and forced Muslims to chant Jai Shri Ram. They were traveling to Ayodhya in the Sabarmati Express.
Anonymous2611 (
talk)
15:49, 8 August 2020 (UTC)
Pointers:
1)I suggest change of "or for projection of varied faith-centered emotions" to "or for the projection of adherent belief in Shri Ram"
2)I suggest removal of the link referred to in line 1, i.e "
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-48882053"
3)I suggest change of "Usage" to "Usage by extremists", in subsection 3. Usage.
4)I suggest replacement of "The expression was used by the Indian Hindu nationalist organisations Vishva Hindu Parishad (VHP), Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) and their allies, which embraced the slogan in the late 20th century, as a tool of increasing the visibility of Hinduism in public spaces and went on to use it as a war cry, for perpetration of communal atrocities against people of other faiths.[28]" from the Introduction to Subsection 3 "Usage", 3.1 "Violent incidents".
I HOPE THIS IS CLEAR
Hi,
Aditya Nirmale, I have moved your comment to a new thread.
Best regards, SerChevalerie ( talk) 13:31, 6 August 2020 (UTC)
Credible sources as was required:
2) #Now coming to BBC(Keeping
WP:NPOV in mind ). I do not question the correctness of the article but rather I would like to debate on the positioning of the reference. If #noticed the BBC reference
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-48882053"
has been placed in line 1, where it is completely irrelevant to the subject. The article says #"The Hindu Chant that became a murder cry". Blantant left-leaning hinduphobic title that is. If you can clearly tell meWhy has that article been referred to in the first line #where it is completely irrelevant satisfactorily I will give up my claim.
Why I feel this content is Hinduphobic?
According to the second para in the lead it is clearly mentioned that VHP and BJP used Jai Shree Ram as War cry and for perpetration of communal Atrocities against other faith people. That's the work of extremists. According to you that's not the violation of WP:NPOV
Anonymous2611 ( talk) 09:01, 7 August 2020 (UTC)
Anonymous2611, I think we've covered most of what you had suggested. The Ram Janmabhoomi movement is mentioned in more detail in the "Coinage" section.
Aditya Nirmale, in addition to what K3 and Grabergs said, I'd like to mention that the lead of Takbir cannot be used as precedence here since there is no clear WP:CONSENSUS over it. Maybe if a strong enough case is made over there we might reconsider, but in any case you will have to achieve a clear consensus for this change. SerChevalerie ( talk) 16:13, 7 August 2020 (UTC)
war cry during the Ram Janmabhoomi movementdoesn't make sense since it has been used after that, too.
The slogan has since then been employed by extremists for perpetration of communal violence against people of other faithsis not what the sources say exactly but could be interpreted that way. I'll let others weigh in. SerChevalerie ( talk) 17:44, 7 August 2020 (UTC)
The slogan has since then been employed by extremists for perpetration of communal violence against people of other faiths
should be better under
WP:MNA. "No original research" (NOR) is one of three core content policies that, along with Neutral point of view and Verifiability, determines the type and quality of material acceptable in articles. Also if this slogan isn't used by extremists, then by whom? We already discarded BJP or VHP. Is it used for perpetration of communal atrocities against people of other faiths by whoever says Jai shri Ram? I don't think so. We can add the word Extremists to ensure that we are drawing a line between Extremists and Hindus who chants Jai shri ram under
WP:MNA to get
WP:NPV. Still as you mentioned we should weigh others inputs in this matter.
Anonymous2611 (
talk)
18:20, 7 August 2020 (UTC)
Then by whom?" That is for the Indian government to investigate and tell us. But it never does. -- Kautilya3 ( talk) 10:51, 8 August 2020 (UTC)
1)
https://en.baaghitv.com/amp/hindu-extremists-torture-18-year-old-for-not-saying-jai-shri-ram/
2)
http://muslimmirror.com/eng/muslim-youth-attacked-by-bajrang-dal-goons-for-refusing-to-chant-jai-shri-ram/
3)
https://m.indiaaheadnews.com/article/jharkhand-muslim-man-beaten-for-hours-forced-to-chant-jai-shree-ram-dies-332825/332825
4)
https://m.thewire.in/article/video/watch-jai-shri-ram-as-a-political-slogan-is-a-cover-for-violence/amp
5)
http://www.coastaldigest.com/news/88588-hindutva-extremists-force-muslim-youths-to-eat-cow-dung-chant-jai-shri-ram-cops-arrest-victims
6)
https://www.vice.com/en_in/article/bj9av5/hindu-extremists-push-a-muslim-off-a-train-attack-another-for-not-chanting-jai-shri-ram
In every article it's mentioned Hindu extremists is mentioned.Most of the sources are of same cases but the Extremists is used. Also if we still can't add it, then use something else that will draw a line between them and the hindus who chants 'Jai Shri Ram' only to show faith Lord Ram.You didn't say anything about "Also separate the source references of second para of the lead section between the two sentences, so to avoid any confusions
"
Anonymous2611 (
talk)
14:38, 8 August 2020 (UTC)
During the discussion above, Anonymous2611 claimed that the video speech of Apporvanand (a professor of Delhi University) on The Wire said that the violent incidents associated with Jai Shri Ram were carried out by "extremists". With the help of a friend, I have now created a transcript of his speech. [1] Not only is Anonymous2611's claim completely false, but the speech is very revealing in what it actually is:
Recall in Lok Sabha elections only a specific party leaders (BJP) were saying Jai Shri Ram. When people asked why they were saying that slogan, they claimed, in some parts of India it is not allowed to say Jai Shri Ram, so they are reclaiming the right to shout the Jai Shri Ram slogan.
In oath ceremony of Lok Sabha. Owaisi was heckled by BJP members shouting Jai Shri Ram. In Jharkhand Tabrez was asked to say Jai Shri Ram during lynching. Did you recall the election rally and oath ceremony? The slogan travelled from election rally to Lok Sabha to Jharkhand and other places where lynching happened.
Recently many incidents happened with Jai Shri Ram. People will claim that these are different incidents. And yet Jai Shri Ram is the common thing in all of these incidents.
All these people (Muslims) are being forced to say Jai Shri Ram and then attacked if they are refusing. Jai Shri Ram has become a violent slogan in itself, as it is used to insult Muslims.
Saying that Hindus are saying Jai Shri Ram as reclaiming it as a right is a lie. Jai Shri Ram was invented while running a campaign against Muslims. Recall The Babri demolition. Jai Shri Ram was popularized at that time, during the Rath Yatra by Advani. Wherever he went, there were violent acts against Muslims.
In Bihar when Advani reached Patna, there were Hindus armed and shouting Jai Shri Ram, and forcing Muslims to chant Jai Shri Ram. His Muslim reporter friend was also forced to chant Jai Shri Ram. He complied to save his life.
Jai Shri Ram is not about the glory of Ram but it is a political slogan. it is to insult and degrade the Muslims.
Hindus to greet each other said, Jai Ram ji ki, Ram-ram or Jai Siya Ram. And even non Hindus had no problem in using this to greet each other. Now Ram's name has become synonymous for violence. Or rather it has become a tool to bully Muslims and establish supremacy over them. Hindus must now think (and ask) if BJP-RSS and its coterie, should say Jai Shri Ram whenever they like but not force others to say that.
The Jai Shri Ram Owaisi incident in Lok Sabha was very shameful. We did not criticize that event. After completing his oath, Owaisi said Jai Bhim, Jai Meem, Takbir etc. to say that he was a Muslim and he could also use such slogans.
We should have criticized then that Jai Shri Ram or Takbir should not be chanted in Parliament. With these lynchings, a large section of people are being criminalized. Tabrez lynching video, shows even women and children beating him. Hindus are being made criminals so that one party remains in power. Should not Hindus see that they are being criminalized? Can't they see that their children are being turned into criminals?
Time has come to prohibit Jai Shri Ram. time has come to stop the use of Jai Shri Ram in violent incidents. [1]
-- Kautilya3 ( talk) 22:36, 8 August 2020 (UTC)
References
of "The wire" provided by me, there is mention of RIGHT WINGED EXTREMISTS. You clearly skipped the article or didn't want to mention it and went straight to the video.You deviated from my point and went on proof your point. Also what about the word?? If Extremists is not suitable then add something else. You asked me to provide rs, I provided. Then you said with this word, we won't be able to cover all the instances. I don't know what's your actual objective. Anonymous2611 ( talk) 02:58, 9 August 2020 (UTC)
My bad, I misread that. SerChevalerie ( talk) 10:59, 9 August 2020 (UTC)
islamic radicalisation proposed theory that jai shree ram is a communal violence voice. it's completely hinduphobic theories and writting with agenda and propaganda. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kaafir007 ( talk • contribs) 12:19, 17 August 2020 (UTC)
WP:NCIN recognises that Hindu deities are often given the honorific prefix ‘Lord’ in English texts/speech, but it discourages editors from including these in articles due to concerns for neutrality. Seeing this, Lord will have to be omitted in the article as Ram’s title/honorific in the translations given, even if the source translated his name with it. — I'llbeyourbeach ( talk) 00:27, 6 August 2020 (UTC)
Found this draft created by Vishaldubey5. At a cursory glance it is largely unsourced, but some of it could possibly be merged here. SerChevalerie ( talk) 04:24, 11 August 2020 (UTC)
Hello the editors,
I have been bought to notice by few of my friends that this page " Jai Shri Ram " Is vandalized. This article is completely Hinduphobic and highly racist against Hindu community.
We obviously cannot write that Muslims use "Allahu Akbar" Before terrorist attacks. That will be highly insulting to a faith. Requesting you to kindly remove the objectionable content from the article. The Slogan is very sensitive to people of Hindu faith, but vandalising the page and by supporting of such Hinduphobic act may create some serious issues.
Regards, Shaant78 ( talk) 00:48, 16 August 2020 (UTC)
I see no reason to take political party name or on any Organisation name as reference to describe "Jai Shri Ram". Clearly shows how this article is misguided. Please study or discuss this topic and publish right content. Ashwinikanth ( talk) 15:17, 15 August 2020 (UTC)
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This article includes a paragraph on Muslims having been attacked and forced to chant Jai Shri Ram. It is repeatedly being removed, generally without explanation but sometimes with comments such as "hate crime", "fake news" or "hinduphobia", and restored. Should it be Retained or Removed?
If one uses God's name for anything unethical, it is not the God's fault..Ur misguiding the belief of people by including a fight scene which goes on in almost any country into jai shree ram wiki.. The makers should remove it as soon as possible Fragilez190 ( talk) 12:55, 1 August 2020 (UTC) — Fragilez190 ( talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
Remove. - Need to maintain dignity of lord shri ram, It is not at all a war cry . Its a slogan to glorify lord ram . Switchmymind ( talk) 02:22, 16 August 2020 (UTC)— Switchmymind ( talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
Assigning th phrase to a war cry alobe is deeply hinduphopic and factually balant hate message GhostIn$hell ( talk) 05:19, 4 August 2020 (UTC)
GhostIn$hell build an article if you will as a kind of tit-for-tat response to this article proportionately discussing a negative view represented in reliable sources; however, again, please understand that won't achieve a single thing — unless your goal is to waste your time. You are disputing content and labeling it as hateful -- yet the content is sourced, reliably might I add. The best course of action would be to drop your own feelings about the issue (without trying to be blunt, Wikipedia isn't concerned with feelings) and as SerChevalerie has suggested: provide reliable sources here in this discussion, and perhaps we will be able to go on from there. — MelbourneStar☆ talk 07:53, 4 August 2020 (UTC)
In the page 'Jai Shri Ram' There is offensive content that 'The expression was used by the Indian Hindu nationalist organisations Vishva Hindu Parishad (VHP), Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) and their allies, which embraced the slogan in the late 20th century as a tool of increasing the visibility of Hinduism in public spaces and went on to use it as a war cry. The slogan has since then been employed for perpetration of communal violence against people of other faiths.[28]'
This is the slogan to chant lord Rama and it is not a' war cry' remove this content and related articles Ramkumarkolamala2015 ( talk) 06:17, 14 August 2020 (UTC)
Firstly, I want to know why is this page being locked for edits with such an iron hand and that too so long? Is it due contributors' lack of confidence in their own work? Also, despite folks here providing ample sources for correction of this article, it's simply being refused for some flimsy reasons. What is going on here? WriteOnlyTruth ( talk) 23:07, 16 August 2020 (UTC)
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The slogan has never been used against other faiths but to justify hinduism and their traditions which are into existence before all other religions came into existence. 49.36.35.188 ( talk) 11:45, 17 August 2020 (UTC)
The line "The worship of Rama increased significantly in the 12th century, following the invasions of Muslim Turks" sounded more like an assumption and we might need a reliable source cited as proof of this claim. Added, the Citation Needed template and requesting inputs from other editors on this. RamRaghubn ( talk) 13:32, 30 August 2020 (UTC)
Sanskrit scholar Sheldon Pollock connects the rise of the epic in the 12th century to the profound changes that accompanied the Muslim Turkic invasions of India starting with the raids of Mahmud of Ghazni in 1001 AD. The invasions eventually resulted in the establishment of the first sultanate in 1206 at Delhi. While “the evidence prior to the twelfth century that Rama may have been the object of worship is scanty”, writes Pollock, this changed by the mid-12th century with a sudden rush of temples built for Ram"
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Hi admin, Jai Shri Ram is not a war cry .it has represented has a wrong and it will affect the belief of Hindu people. please remove that line 103.81.192.50 ( talk) 20:24, 24 December 2020 (UTC)
{{
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template. See also the FAQ at the top of this page. ‑‑
ElHef (
Meep?)
22:21, 24 December 2020 (UTC)The image of Ram feels a bit not Okay....Is it Okay if someone changes the image to a painting of Ram.... AARYA SAJAYAN ( talk) 08:11, 21 February 2021 (UTC)
Dear admins, As I mentioned earlier. According to MOS:LEAD the lead should be neutral. If you just go through the format of lead you could see that it clearly mentioned how the lead should be descriptive and neutral. Takbir being used by the infamous terrorist group as a war cry is not mentioned in its Lead. Please note that I am not writing it because I want it but because this is a particular format should be followed by your editors too. You people are human too and can have biases (No offense). I have seen one admin here is an atheist, I hope he does not have something personal against Hindus just because of BJP. One thing I want to state clearly is that I have no problem with criticizing the use in an appropriate column such as Takbir but the description should be neutral without the last lines. Thank you. Parassharma1 ( talk) 18:50, 21 August 2020 (UTC)
written from a neutral point of view( WP:NPOV) and this requires
all the significant views that have been published by reliable sources on a topic. To censor part of the lead as you advocate would not be neutral. Dorsetonian ( talk) 19:27, 21 August 2020 (UTC)
This page clearly violated manual of style just in the introduction. The 2nd paragraph should be edited to provide neutral introduction, and "incidents of communal violence" should be a separate section. The references for it are not good enough in my opinion, but that can be a separate discussion. Preacher066 ( talk) 23:39, 6 February 2021 (UTC)
The Lead is absolutely not neutral and is barely even in context. As far as I can tell from an outside perspective, this phrase is a religious/ devotional one, and has been co-opted to some extent by certain political parties. It is not appropriate for an encyclopedia to mention politics within the lead unless the subject is inherently political in nature, intent, or motive; which it's not. It needs to be cleaned up to include context of the phrase in a neutral style. — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
12.190.147.190 (
talk)
23:59, 15 March 2021 (UTC)
Jai Shri Ram is a greeting used by many Hindus, so it can be categorized as an article on Hinduism. Shubhams123 ( talk) 17:23, 8 April 2021 (UTC)
References
The phrase might have been used by some radical elements against other religious groups, but so have been other religious phrases [1].
In the cited article, to maintain the piousness of the phrase in the minds of millions of followers, who are nowhere like the radical extremists that use it to further their own purposes, the negativity around the phrase has been moved to a separate sub-section "Usage by extremists".
Religion and its expressions should not be defined by its worst adherents. I suggest moving the particular paragraph to the section Usage and sub-section Controversial. This removes the assumption that one gets from reading the article on the first go, that the phrase always has negative connotations. I hope my request is considered in good faith. Have gone through the FAQs as well, didn't find an answer satisfactory, so have chosen to raise the issue here. Shubhams123 ( talk) 05:41, 26 March 2021 (UTC)
References
@ Shubhams123: Please obtain consensus on this talk page before reinstating a disputed edit. You may find the bold, revert, discuss cycle to be a useful recommendation. — Newslinger talk 04:01, 27 March 2021 (UTC)
If you look at usage - It says - Voilent incidents, Political and 'Other uses' effectively projecting that largely this term is negatively used. while it's quite opposite. IDK What is happening to sane minds who 'protected' this article from being edited ? — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
45.125.116.193 (
talk)
02:50, 6 April 2021 (UTC)
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in this article there are few sentences that hurts a community sentiments. Remove it - "The slogan has since then been employed for perpetration of communal violence against people of other faiths." 2409:4064:4EA0:17AE:6E6F:3493:C55C:91F5 ( talk) 03:47, 21 July 2021 (UTC)
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Please Remove The Last Line and The Line Before the Last Line that tells that This Slogan is Used to Tease Other Religion;as there is not written in other Religion's Slogan's too.If You Didn't Remove this Line Which Signifies This Slogan creating Violence,which in reality is not,then I have to Sue the Editor to the Court of U.S. 2409:4041:2E83:37D5:0:0:44C9:611 ( talk) 16:28, 28 August 2021 (UTC)
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I hereby humbly request Wikipedia to remove the line no. 23 which is openly defaming the beliefs , values and emotions of hindu people in general relating it with violence , it is same as writing that allah hu akbar is a terrorist slogan used by terrorists before committing ting suicide bombings especially in India . please remove the given line or i will have to write a proper request to ministry of information Technology on following inappropriate representation of a daily spiritual salutation . Aryaman Bharat ( talk) 03:07, 3 January 2022 (UTC)
How come this article has "The slogan has since then been employed for perpetration of communal violence against people of other faiths." in the introduction itself whereas Takbir does not have it till a much later section? That too with a ready justification of three references. In fact the third one can be translated to any negative word usage.
May be I will be subjected to Wikipedia:Advocacy but I am just advocating for parity between articles on similar topics and may be moving the negative usage to a more latter section instead of introduction in this article.- 113.193.34.124 ( talk) 07:41, 19 February 2022 (UTC)
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"Change The slogan has since then been employed for perpetration of communal violence against people of other faiths.[23] To "The slogan had since been employed for Showing true faith in Hinduism. 2409:4042:51F:5C21:B6F9:1150:C13F:851D ( talk) 20:28, 2 April 2022 (UTC)
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ScottishFinnishRadish (
talk)
21:09, 2 April 2022 (UTC)Content should be relevant and linked example : What A thinks has no place on Wikipedia . Jay Shri Ram is just to greet other people. How RSS etc uses it should not be added to Wikipedia Het666 ( talk) 16:23, 1 May 2022 (UTC)
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"The slogan has since then been employed for perpetration of communal violence against people of other faiths. This is entirely false targetting one community and needs to be removed Ashborn24 ( talk) 13:37, 9 January 2023 (UTC)
{{
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template. This looks to be well sourced.
ScottishFinnishRadish (
talk)
13:55, 9 January 2023 (UTC)Can i just add this line at the startingof coinage section "Although the exact date of coinage of the slogan "Jai Shri Ram" is unknown."
This is absolutely true as no one knows the exact date of coinage of the slogan.
AbhishekSaini1910 ( talk) 23:19, 15 March 2023 (UTC)
@ MelbourneStar removed some of my work from Wikipedia page Jai Shri Ram, by giving a reason that I cannot use YouTube video link as a reference.
original producer? -yes
Is it used for information? -yes
Is it to be used as a reference? -yes
Is it original producer a reliable source? -well absolutely,as they themselves made that movie.
Will it improve the article? -Ofcourse
Information I added: In 1957 movie named Ram Hanuman Yuddhaa "Jai Shri Ram" is clearly audible.
Reference i gave: [ [3]]
The video in the YouTube link is the movie Ram Hanuman Yuddhaa (1954) uploaded by it's original producer (i.e Ultra Films).
What else would be the better citation than giving the link to original movie with timestamp where the given word "Jai Shri Ram" is spoken.
Moreover, the movie is older than 60 year, hence now in public domain would it be okay if just trim that part from movie and upload on Wikimedia and then cite here?
AbhishekSaini1910 (
talk)
17:58, 16 March 2023 (UTC)
These are the line i want to add
कही न बात बालम की मानी । चली रूस अतिहि खिसियानी ॥
तब माधव वीणा लीना । चल्यो रिसाय हिये रस भीना ॥
'जय श्री राम' विप्र उच्चारी । कृपा करत रहिये सुन प्यारी ॥
सुनके बाल मंद मुसक्यानी । डगर चल्यो माधो द्विज ज्ञानी ॥
[6]
https://www.google.co.in/books/edition/Bh%C4%81rat%C4%ABya_prem%C4%81khy%C4%81na_k%C4%81vya/FZtHAAAAMAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&bsq=%22%E0%A4%9C%E0%A4%AF%20%E0%A4%B6%E0%A5%8D%E0%A4%B0%E0%A5%80%20%E0%A4%B0%E0%A4%BE%E0%A4%AE%22&kptab=overview
[7] https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.425766/page/n4/mode/1up?view=theater
Bodha lived between 1767-1806. https://hi.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E0%A4%AC%E0%A5%8B%E0%A4%A7%E0%A4%BE
AbhishekSaini1910 ( talk) 18:55, 16 March 2023 (UTC)
jaya sri ram vipra ucchari
kripa karat rahiye sun pyari
My rough-and-ready translation:
Beautiful lines. I don't know where that gets us though. -- Kautilya3 ( talk) 19:39, 16 March 2023 (UTC)
Sorry, that is only good for a talk page post, not mainspace content. And they are not WP:Full citations either. For it to be encyclopaedic, we need the context. Who is Bodha, what is this poem, why did he mention Jai Shri Ram in the middle of it? Unless you have read and understood the Premakhyan book (at least this part of it), you can't do it. If you need suggest help, I suggest you initiate a discussion at the Hindi Wikipedia. -- Kautilya3 ( talk) 13:09, 17 March 2023 (UTC)
Jai Shri Ram translates to "Glory to Sita & Rama" or "Victory to Sita & Rama". Many believes that it translates to “Glory to Lord Rama” but in reality it is not true. According to Hinduism Shri is another name of Goddess Lakshmi therefore Sita being an incarnation of Goddess Lakshmi is also referred to as Shri. Being the wife of Lord Ram the name of Sita i.e. Shree is used along with Lord Ram. AbhishekSaini1910 ( talk) 16:53, 15 March 2023 (UTC)
These lines by Jan Breman contains fake information and should be removed as wikipedia is not a garbage ground to throw someone fake statements.
"An interesting aside here is that the greeting 'Jai Siya Ram' has been transformed into the battle cry 'Jai Shri Ram' ('Long live Lord Ram'). The Hindu supreme god has assumed the form of a macho general. In the original meaning, 'Siya Ram' had been a popular greeting of welcome in the countryside since time immemorial... The Hindu fanatics have now also banished her from the popular greeting by changing Siya to 'Shri' (Lord), thereby suppressing the feminine element in favour of masculine virility and assertiveness."
Let me break it line by line:
1. "An interesting aside here is that the greeting 'Jai Siya Ram' has been transformed into the battle cry 'Jai Shri Ram' ('Long live Lord Ram')". It is absolutely fake, no one changed the greeting both are used as greeting since time immemorial, as I have already added in the meaning section of the main article that According to a Marathi & English dictionary by military officer J.T. Molesworth published in 1857 (110 year before VHP and RSS), both जयश्रीराम (jayaśrīrāma) & जयसीताराम (jayasītārāma) are "forms of salutation to and by बैरागी ( bairāgī)". [1] [2] Meaning of बैरागी ( bairāgī) was given as "An individual of a class of mendicants who renounce the world and practise austerities. They are devotees of विष्णु ( viṣṇu)". [3] [4]
2."'Jai Siya Ram' has been transformed into the battle cry 'Jai Shri Ram' ('Long live Lord Ram')" It is also a fake narrative, no one transformed anything both existed as two different words, "Jai Shri Ram" was already a war cry from before. Look at it: In the novel ' Miriam' by J. F. Fanthome published in 1896, the meaning of "Jai Sri Ram Lakshmanji Ki" is given as "the war cry of Brij-land and of the races who pay adoration to Krishna ( Vaishnavism) as the chief deity of the Hindu pantheon" in the novel the expression was chanted by Hindus during the Indian Rebellion of 1857 against britishers. [5]
3. "The Hindu fanatics have now also banished her from the popular greeting by changing Siya to 'Shri' (Lord)," Once again same propaganda , no one changed Siya to Shri both were used between 'Jai' & 'Ram' in greetings simultaneously since time immemorial. AbhishekSaini1910 ( talk) 19:32, 27 March 2023 (UTC)
References
had studied Indian social life and mores at close quarters as a sympathetic chronicler and supplemented his knowledge through bazaar news from servants.[1] [2] Any opinions on whether he, and the notes from Mariam as an extension, could be considered reliable? Or perhaps we directly attribute to Fanthome?
References
AbhishekSaini1910, can you state what changes on the main page you are seeking? -- Kautilya3 ( talk) 12:54, 28 March 2023 (UTC)
I just added to this section, [18] if anyone has opinions on that. Gråbergs Gråa Sång ( talk) 12:54, 30 March 2023 (UTC)
AbhishekSaini1910, I have reverted probably the entire set of changes you have made over the last month or two. When I looked at the page, I found it almost unrecognizable. Almost all your content (some 22K bytes) is sourced to WP:PRIMARY sources, and is highly WP:UNDUE. Please find WP:SECONDARY sources for your issues, and then we can revisit them. Right now, I am putting my foot down and saying NO to PRIMARY sources, because it has gotten completely out of hand. -- Kautilya3 ( talk) 21:57, 29 March 2023 (UTC)
AbhishekSaini1910, please stop editing this article for a few days now, give other editors a chance to react. WP:CTOP, WP:CAREFUL and all that. Try to be less of a WP:SPA. Gråbergs Gråa Sång ( talk) 09:28, 31 March 2023 (UTC)
"Following the ground-breaking ceremony of the Ram Temple, Ayodhya, in August 2020, the slogan was used as a chant in celebrations in New York. [1]
The slogan was used by lawyers after the 2019 Supreme Court verdict on Ayodhya dispute. [2]
In April 2022, Jujaru Nagaraju, a handloom weaver in Andhra Pradesh weaved a 60 metre long silk sari with "Jai Sri Ram" written over 30 000 times in 13 Indian languages. He gave the name "Rama Koti Vastram" clarification needed to the sari. [3]"
References
IMO the weaver fits under pop culture (it's a broad term, modern art fits, and can someone translate the name, please), and the 2 other fits under "Politics". A Supreme court is a political body (in practise, if not always in theory), and the Ayodhya ref is full of ministers. Opinions? Gråbergs Gråa Sång ( talk) 09:25, 31 March 2023 (UTC)
I'm assuming that his "jayaśrīrāma" is pretty much the same as "Jai Shri Ram" and so not "antecedent". Am I wrong or don't we really know what he was thinking of, perhaps it's even off-topic? This is one of the problems with WP:AGEMATTERS problematic sources. Gråbergs Gråa Sång ( talk) 06:20, 31 March 2023 (UTC)
Also, per ref given [19] can someone except the editor who adds it confirm the reading? Gråbergs Gråa Sång ( talk) 07:03, 31 March 2023 (UTC)
Can anyone find whom does the word "Shri-pati" (Shri's Husband) refers to, in the 13th verse of Hanuman Chalisa.
sahasa badana tumharo jasa gāvai।
asa kahi shrīpati kantha lagāvai॥ 13 ॥
सहस्त्र बदन तुम्हरो यश गावैं।
अस कहि श्रीपति कंठ लगावैं॥ १३ ॥
AbhishekSaini1910 (
talk)
10:02, 2 April 2023 (UTC)
I want to add about Kabir Khan answer when he was asked why he used "Jai Shri Ram" in the movie bajrangi bhaijan?, from these sources, can anybody help what can I add and what not.
[21] [22] [23]
AbhishekSaini1910 ( talk) 05:27, 2 April 2023 (UTC)
By the time the kar sevaks congregated at Ayodhya in October 1990, the traditional north Indian greeting 'Jai Siya Ram' a phonetic deviation of 'Jai Sita Ram' had been sanskritised to 'Jai Shri Ram' and been given the connotation of a battle cry. [5]
The formula was in fact a modification of an existing greeting; villagers and townspeople might greet each other, Jai Ram ji ki, or Jai Siyaram, the latter name referring to his consort Sita as well. [6]
For centuries “Jai Siya Ram” has been a common form of greeting used by ordinary Hindus in the villages of North India. [7]
References
In which section should I add this.
As a devotee of
Rama,
Gharib Nawaz the
Meitei ruler of
Manipur Kingdom (1720-1751) issued several round & square bell-metal coins, five of which have 'Jai Shri', '
Jai Shri Ram', 'Ram', 'Shri Ram', 'Jai Ram' in
Devanagari script and on one coin 'Shri Ram' is inscribed in
Bengali script.
[1]
[2]Cite error: A <ref>
tag is missing the closing </ref>
(see the
help page).
[18], however this usage has been denounced by other
Hindus.
[19]
[20]
[21]
[22]
[23]}}
Or should the folowing text be removed or moved to the politics section from the lead section ?, based of past discussions and the opinion that it is biased and Hinduphobic from past discussions.
The slogan has since been employed in connection with the perpetration of communal violence against people of other faiths [24] [35]
ThatBritishAsianDude ( talk) 20:26, 21 January 2024 (UTC) ThatBritishAsianDude ( talk) 20:28, 21 January 2024 (UTC)
Sources
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however this usage has been denounced by other Hindus, but none of them are appropriate. The first one, 'Yours Positively', seems to be a piece of polemic by someone called Oswald Pereira. It would work as a primary source for his own views on the matter, but it's not clear why his view is particularly significant or representative of anyone; he's also very vague about what uses of the phrase he is being critical of. The TRT World source appears not to support the assertion at all - maybe I've missed it, but I don't see anything in there about Hindus denouncing the use of the phrase. Theheghousediary is a WordPress blog, it's not reliable for anything. Satyaagrah also appears to be self-published and unreliable. The Hindu American source does not seem to support the assertion in any way. In short, the assertion is, as yet, unsupported by any reliable sources. Girth Summit (blether) 09:40, 22 January 2024 (UTC)
@ ThatBritishAsianDude Again on this: [29], the WP:LEAD is a summary of the body. Obviously "misuse" is one way to look at it, but clearly there's a lot of "users" who'd disagree. If sources are good (no WP:BLOGS etc), that view can be included somewhere, but putting it in the WP:LEAD like you do is wrong on several levels, including WP:RNPOV. You're putting your religious or ideological view in Wikipedia's voice, don't do that. Gråbergs Gråa Sång ( talk) 12:02, 21 January 2024 (UTC)
Ping Newslinger if you wish to comment. Other editors, if you have an opinion, please share. Gråbergs Gråa Sång ( talk) 12:05, 21 January 2024 (UTC)
No. Frankly, we don't know enough about the history of usage of "Jai Shri Ram" to say anything definitive. I see British press mostly saying it was "appropriated" and claiming that it was devotional earlier, but they are certainly no authorities on it. -- Kautilya3 ( talk) 20:53, 14 February 2024 (UTC)
So I just checked this " Takbir" article and decided to search this article. The bias cannot be more apparent. Clearly we see the difference in the treatment of the subject. Whereas the takbir, is treated as purely religious slogan, and the overall tone of the article is also suggestive of that. But in this article the topic first and foremost has been made to be a political one with personal opinion affecting the content. I want to ask what is the basis for conclusion? I mean the violent history and nature of the " Allahu Akhbar" slogan is not a secret to anyone. If all that doesn't make it qualify to be termed as a in the lead " battle cry", then how does "jai shree ram" become one? If the WP:LEAD is a summary of the whole article then where's the mention of "takbir's" usage as a battle cry by all the terrorist in the lead section? And if it doesn't apply there then on what basis it is portrayed in this article? That to in the lead section!
The usage of "Jai shree ram" is quite old and has been a important part of religio-social lifestyle of Hindus. The fact that editors here could not find any sources supporting it is quite suspicious when the vast array of published material for the same is not scarce. Satyamsha ( talk) 06:34, 18 March 2024 (UTC)