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What is the difference between Homo sapiens and Homo sapiens sapiens? Thank you. -- Abdull 21:27, 26 March 2006 (UTC)
Needed in the article, not on the talk page! ;) This is not the first time this complaint has come up, and it is a valid one. Sam Spade 22:56, 26 March 2006 (UTC)
Its a tiny speck. What I was asking for is a lengthier discussion of idaltu, as well as a discussion of mankinds future evolution. Clearly were not going to be Homo sapiens sapiens forever, are we? Sam Spade 17:40, 27 March 2006 (UTC)
Er... "we" will be homo sapiens sapiens forever because as things currently stand, natural selection doesnt apply to us. We live in a world where people live to reproduce regardless of genetic traits. -- D-Gen 08:26, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
I find the emphasis placed on the "epidemic" proportions of obesity in some countries to be very skewed. I'm pretty sure that far more people are starving and malnourished than are obese; yet, starvation is only mentioned in passing. As this is not the "Humans in the Western world" article, I think that the problem of starvation and malnutrition is far more severe, important, and prevalent than that of obesity, and should accordingly get more article space. Thoughts? -- Ashenai 22:20, 28 May 2006 (UTC)
The edit history of the Human page demonstrates the dogmatic censorship of the evolutionists who refuse to allow a balanced presentation of the reality of what "human" is. The situation is hopeless. It is a waste of time to attempt to bring any degree of balance to the human page, for the evolutionist bigots will not allow a balanced NPOV presentation of what published scholars say "human" is. For example, the current first sentence is as unbalanced and warped as would be a lead sentence that began as follows: Autos, or cars, are hunks of metal. While it is true that autos are hunks of metal, the lead statement "Autos are hunks of metal" derides the sophisticated engineering that makes a hunk of metal into an auto. -- Rednblu 05:53, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
My proposed division of the article, which has not been discussed, is located at:
(They were originally all at my userspace. I moved them to "draft" to encourage people to work on them. Then Duncharris moved Human back to my userspace.) Currently, Human, Homo sapiens and Humanity all redirect to the article under discussion. But this article defines human beings as homo sapiens only. An article on "Humanity" should emphasize aspects other than our animal nature. An article that is simultaneously on Human, Humanity and homo sapiens must carefully balance the animal, socio-cultural and conscious aspects of human beings. The intro to this article emphasizes only the biological/animal aspect. That is why the "unbalanced" tag is necessary. To overcome this difficulty, I recommend splitting the article into three as above. — goethean ॐ 16:02, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
The Encyclopedia Britannica entry (as reported above) is far less reductive (and therefore more accurate, and therefore better) than the current version of this article. EB has "culture-bearing" before "primate". It then further balances the biology text with: "...but is distinguished by a more highly developed brain and a resultant capacity for articulate speech and abstract reasoning". In fact, the culture text outweighs the biology text ("...primate that is anatomically similar and related to the other great apes..."). There are 21 words about culture (incl. the brain, speech, reasoning) and 12 words about biology/paleo-anthropology in EB's 1st sentence. You have, of course, banished all culture text to much later in the article.
Additionally, some of the WP text in the first paragraph are almost lifted from the EB's second sentence, which is very bad. WP's 1st paragraph is basically the EB's entry, with all of the culture talk subtracted out. Which is really quite amazing. In my opinion, the first sentence is extremely important. It defines the subject. The idea that biology should be presented first and the other stuff later is not only a very bad idea, it results in the dissemination of a POV definition of humanity.
Encyclopedia Britannica:
Wikipedia:
Fortunately, when one consults Google, the old 2002, NPOV, compromise version of the article comes up rather than the current, POV, non-compromise version. — goethean ॐ 21:30, 14 June 2006 (UTC)
a culture-bearing primate that is anatomically similar and related to the other great apes but is distinguished by a more highly developed brain and a resultant capacity for articulate speech and abstract reasoning. In addition, human beings display a marked erectness of body carriage that frees the hands for use as manipulative members. Some of these characteristics, however, are not entirely unique to humans. The gap in cognition, as in anatomy, between humans and the other great apes ( orangutans, gorillas, and chimpanzees) is much less than was once thought, as they have been shown to possess a variety of advanced cognitive abilities formerly believed to be restricted to humans. Traditionally, humans were considered the sole recent representatives of the family Hominidae, but recent findings indicate that chimpanzees (and bonobos) are more closely related to humans than are gorillas and orangutans and that the chimpanzee and human lines separated only about five million years ago. Therefore, all great apes are now gathered with humans into Hominidae, and within this family humans and their extinct ancestors are considered to make up the “tribe” Hominini. See also Homo sapiens; human evolution.
Per Silence's q, above - what about taking on the Love and Sexuality section? IMHO, sexual reproduction is a Biological thing, not a Motivation and emotion thing. Well, motivation... why is that section Motivation and emotion? Could we come up with a better title? KillerChihuahua ?!? 20:48, 15 June 2006 (UTC)
My understanding is 10-14 days without food and 3-4 days without water. JPotter 17:11, 16 June 2006 (UTC)
Homo sapien is clearly an animal who begins life as a single cell, grows and changes, until at some point there is enough irreversible damage to enough cells that there is no longer a living body, but merely isolated living cells that can not in the normal course of events regrow into a new body. Human, on the other hand, does not begin and does not end with mere human cell beginning and ending; but with something more. Some believe in a soul that gets added and removed. Governments define the start and end of human rights such as at the start of ther third trimester until braindeath. The human mind itself is recognizable in a functioning human body and would still be a human mind were it made of other than meat - a goal of Artificial Intelligence. A homo sapien body without a mind is not a human. A human mind housed in a non-homo-sapien body is a human. WAS 4.250 16:03, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
Yes, but just because we are more advanced in ways other animals are not does not make us “special”. For example, dogs are more advanced in hearing than us.
Robots don't strictly appear to be human, they can look like anything.
Then can you elaborate‽
No, a PC (or a more general term, computer) can never “evolve”. They may make a newer and better computer but a Windows 95 will never “evolve” into Windows 98.
Once again, can you elaborate your meaning so we can?
It seems a lot of people are misunderstanding you, maybe you should make things more clearer.
They are alive, regardless of their rights or abilities. A vegetable person is still a human, and so is a dead person. We don't say dinosaurs are not dinosuars because they're dead
No, a study and point of view are different. A study is to well… study something, and a point of view is your belief.
FlareNUKE 02:17, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
Well, WAS 4.250, if you're failing to realize yet that all species are equally transitional, and you seem to be under some kind of a belief that humans are The Final Product of evolution, then perhaps there remains no basis on which to engage in further discussion. Perhaps we'll have to start from very basics here. Do you doubt the validity of evolution? deeptrivia ( talk) 02:36, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
(I don't know why we're really into odd, terse subsection titles now, but I guess I'll join in on the fun!)
1. "romantic beliefs that humans are special animals Humans have gone to the moon. This is real, not romantic."
2. "There's no such thing as a "non-homo-sapiens body" robot"
4. "Your main error is not in your contrasting of biological and nonbiological, it's in your assumption that this contrast is equatable with a contrast between the terms human and Homo sapiens. I failed to communicate. You are addressing aspects of my failure to communicate and not the substance of what I an trying to discuss. I apologize for my inarticulateness."
5. "All species are equally transitional. false"
9. "And yet PCs will never "evolve beyond their hardware" PCs are evolving faster than organic life forms"
12. ""Creator of the future"? What is this, a cult pamphlet? Do you believe you can make a choice that affects the future?"
13. "First you argued that people lose their legal "human rights" when they have no mind because No. No. No. all the stuff after the "because" is garbage. Brain dead people are not legally alive anymore. it's a fact. I'm not arguing from theory. I'm stating observable fact."
14. "Please refrain from incivility: if someone tells you that something you said is highly offensive, it is extremely inappropriate and irresponsible of you to respond with "be responsible for your own emotions". There is a great difference between an offensive/infammatory word and an idea. You may not censor ideas under the principl of civility."
15. " Biology is a field of study, not a "point of view" the two are not exclusive."
Biology is a word. That word can be used identify a field of study. That word can be used to identify a point of view. That you don't see it as a point of view and that there are other points of view is my point. This relates to this article in that Homo Sapiens should be an article (that explores in full the point of view that human=homo sapiens) and not be a redirect. The article human can and should remain similar to what it is but with more room to explore other points of view and less needing to fully flesh out the homo sapiens aspect of being human (one of many correct viewpoints). Argumentation for the sake of argumentation is not what I came here for. Instead of engaging in a conversation to improve the article, I receive debate for the sake of debate. Nonsense like "evolution" can only mean biological evolution in the context of the evolution of the PC is debate for the sake of debate. WAS 4.250 13:57, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
Example: Legal point of view. What is it "to be human" from a current Western government legal point of view? I point out that humans lose their legal "human rights" when they have no mind (but are still "homo sapiens"). The responses I got were from a biology point of view. WAS 4.250 14:12, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
Anyway, I was thinking of replacing the image of the two poorly drawn NASA things for the people in outer-space with an actual human, it should be an adult and any ethnicity or gender will do, And I argue to the fact that we would need to show so many humans to represent every kind is that the Pleocyemata article does not show every type, just an American lobster.
The other images should also not be artist's deceptions of humans but instead ACTUAL humans with execption to the art category. I'd rather see humans in their activities and habitat then a drawing or sclupture of a man.
-- FlareNUKE 22:25, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
Silence i just saw your post above which makes this compilation i made a bit moot. i thought we could look at some different types of pictures to see try and get a feeling for style. Now i have seen your list above I'll think of some more with respect to other pictures i might have seen while googling this bunch. The major problem here is that we will need someone to doante the appropriate picture for our use.
When i picked out these photos i was thinking of what types of things would be needed. A) invokes generations and age, B) a street seen people about their business, including children, men and women but also eye catching. C) emotion, love (heterosexual) D) youth, male and female, E) athleticism, diversity F) great picture from the depression, emotion despair ( a bit depressing and probaly too arty), G) I forgot this one. H) diversity, racial and gender with emotions on top. I) another depression era photo, i couldn't resist it since it is a great photo of the worried mother and scared/tired children, in retrospect really not that useful for this article. David D. (Talk) 05:24, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
the 2 refs give diferent numbers. is it 98.4% or 96% or is it disputed? someone find out. ... humans have approximately 20,000–25,000 genes and share 98.4% of their DNA with their closest living evolutionary relatives, the two species of chimpanzees.[7]... ... in fact, chimpanzee and human DNA is 96% identical.[13] ... —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 216.94.200.9 ( talk • contribs) 22:56, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
Perhaps some combination of the below two ideas would be useful. WAS 4.250 18:39, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
{{ Humans}}
−10 — – −9 — – −8 — – −7 — – −6 — – −5 — – −4 — – −3 — – −2 — – −1 — – 0 — | (
O. praegens) ( O. tugenensis) (
Ar. kadabba) (
Ar. ramidus) |
| ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
It is useful to tie articles together. We already do this in a variety of ways. One common technique is a footer. We already have those on this article, although the one Silence created (and I moved to a new name) above could be added to the foot of this article, especially as it lacks a see also section. WAS 4.250 22:00, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
It is also common on articles (that in Britannica would be larger than our format allows) for the article to be divided up into a suite of articles with a navigation box at the top of each of them allowing a reader to quickly find the exact part of the issue they are looking for. This can also be done to create a suite of articles from articles rthat were comcieved and created as seperate entities as a step in coordinating them. I think it would be useful to think of the human article as a flagship article for a suite of articles that once connected with a navigation box at the top can be coordinated over time to be a representation of Wikipedia at its best. WAS 4.250 22:00, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
The relatively unique labor during childbirth is mentioned but not why - the relatively large head size due to a relatively large brain. I have replaced this.
I also rewrote some of the next sentence - it said childbirth is a "dangerous ordeal, in remote, underdeveloped regions". Remote? Where is Rio de Janeiro remote from, the person writing that sentence? And where is that person from? I rewrote that. Ruy Lopez 17:42, 25 June 2006 (UTC)
Yeah, i know, wikipedia is not cencored and what more, but i would still prefere to not get a dick in my face every time i get to this page...-- Striver 00:19, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
Silence, im not a troll, i am ea editor with more than 10k edits. And i am talking about this pages content. I really do not appreciate you moving away my comments to my talk page, but i won't move them back.
I repeat: I see no point in showing a pair of breast and a dick in a article about human. i dont see (explicit!) this picture over at horse, and i dont get why i get the dick and breast in this article. Either tell me that you support puting (explicit!) this picture into Donkey, or support me on removing the picture away from here. -- Striver 19:44, 8 July 2006 (UTC)
Hello? -- Striver 15:37, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
I am rather sure that this is wrong. Homo sapiens Linnaeus, 1758 is correct. But I am very skeptical that Linnaeus named a subspecies. Technically we need to find who first used H. s. sapiens for anatomically modern human and credit that person or persons with the trinomial name while giving Linnaeus credit for Homo and H. sapiens. Anyone with documentation, one way or the other, please speak up. MichaelSH 00:26, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
When I read the article, it seemed that it was aimed at a non-human. Should it be changed? 0L1 21:45, 14 July 2006 (UTC)
I still don't see the difference between the Homo sapiens idaltu, and the Cro-Magnons. Are the Cro-Magnons essentially early modern-day humans? And what about the idaltu? I've looked at representational images of each, and they all look like modern day humans to me. What is the difference? Are they of the same species/subspecies as us? The article seems to indicate that Cro-Magnons are early humans. So which would be the closest relative/species/sub-species to modern day man (that ever lived); would this be the floriensis, cro-magnon, neanderthals, or the idaltu; in which of our closest relatives are the most "intelligent"? 165.196.149.50 19:08, 18 July 2006 (UTC)
Homo sapiens idaltu appears to be the earliest form of H. sapiens. "Cro-Magnon" is merely the earliest known example of H. sapiens sapiens in Europe, although H. sapiens sapiens had spread through Asia and reached Australia 25,000 years before "Cro-Magnon" appeared in Europe. Neanderthals were a different species. [6] Homo floresiensis was a specialized species, possibly descended from Homo erectus (see Homo floresiensis). Intelligence is a tricky concept, even when the subjects of study are alive. Neanderthals, Flores man, and early H. sapiens all left tools behind. I'm not qualified to evaluate the intelligence required to produce their respective tool kits, but I will note that H. sapiens was around for 150,000 years or more before any of them began to advance beyond Paleolithic cultures. -- Donald Albury( Talk) 20:55, 18 July 2006 (UTC)
Rather than engage in an edit war on the article page, I will state here that I believe that the view that humans are herbivores and not omnivores is a fringe belief, held by a small minority, and should be treated accordingly in the article. As is discussed in the reference I added, vegetarians do not necessarily deny that humans are omnivores. The argument for vegetarianism can be made without distorting the facts of human anatomy, physiology and history. -- Donald Albury( Talk) 18:51, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
lol wow... i cant believe this is even debatable. Humans are obviously omnivores, and arguing that they arent is just a lame fabrication to push a vegetarian's agenda. Period. I DIDNT EAT ANY VEGETABLES THIS WEEK AND I THINK I MIGHT LIVE! -- D-Gen 08:32, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
why does the main picture contain a white women, and a white man, clearly judging from the colorless picture, and facial attributes, I think the picture should be replaced with a big circle of people of all colors holding hands.. with a rainbow (just kidding) but it should have all colors of people in one picture, because i personally find it offensive to look for a diffenition of human and see only white people in the main picture... and thats coming from a white person.i just hope you guys to take note. just to clarify we 'all' are the human species, i wasn't going to bring up racial differences but the main picture just made me mad! especially with the stereotypes of 'whiteman' and 'whitewomen' being dominant. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 75.15.236.166 ( talk • contribs) .
Apparently the above statement is wrong. See Wrangham & Peterson, Demonic Males: Apes and the Origins of Human Violence (1996). To make the above statement conform to empirical evidence, perhaps you must define "war" in a distorted way--or perhaps you must adopt a strange definition of "unique"--or maybe even a non-traditional definiton of "human." In any case, surely you should find and cite a reputable scholar who would support such a strange idea as "War is a concept seemingly unique to humans." -- Rednblu 06:19, 24 July 2006 (UTC)
Lostsocks 00:08, 13 October 2006 (UTC)
What's up with everything in the evolution section sounding like its 100% fact? I'd like to see some emphasis on the fact that it is a theory. Also, since we have evolution, there should be some balance with a creationistic view of human origin.-- Gotmesomepants 19:02, 29 July 2006 (UTC)
<<<<<Can we go back and discuss the article, and ways to improve it? These pages are not designed to be used as a discussion forum. Thank you for your consideration. ≈ jossi ≈ t • @ 02:49, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
It seems that a great deal of people have debated about whether the section on evolution in this article should be altered, kept intact, or removed entirely. Proponents of all sides of the argument seem to be missing the point that Wikipedia's ultimate goal, as I understand it, is to create a database of accurate, unbiased information on as many worthwhile subjects as possible. The current section on evolution isn't particularly biased, but what could be considered a bias of some form is the omission of any section regarding alternate theories (I know, the "T" word!) or beliefs about the origin of humans.
Therefore, I propose that a new section be created which details all of the major "sides" of the "where did we come from" question. This section could include both evolution and creationism, but keep in mind that Christian creationism is not the only form of creationism belief out there, and in fact I'm certain that if one were to look hard enough a third or even fourth completely different belief regarding our beginnings could be unearthed. Ultimately, what I'm saying is that humans are most likely never going to come to a 100% complete consensus on... well, probably any topic in particular, but contributors should recognize that having alternate theories on our origin could be very useful for those searching for more detailed information on humans. It doesn't have to be deep and soulfull, but it should definitely be informative, and I figure that so long as everyone gets their equal share of opinion-space (man do I hate saying this, since opinion rarely has a place in an encyclopedia article, but with this topic there's not much that can be done to avoid that), then everyone will at least agree that the article touches base on the important things and we can move on to improving other sections.
I would appreciate feedback on my proposal, including constructive critisicm or just generally whatever you think. 70.56.153.122 08:28, 11 August 2006 (UTC) (Josh M)
The picture at the top of the article is wrong. First, it shows drawings. Bad Drawings. In Black and White. I understand that it may be too "extreme" to include color pictures of real humans, given the fact that wikipedia is so staunchly conservative(which is a good thing), but don't you think we could provide a more accurate depicton than that? It can even be a drawing, as long as it was done by someone who can actually write, like the vitruvian man by leonardo da vinci maybe? Or, even better, a picture that is in color. Imagine if there was aliens, they would think all humans look like they are 30 years old, and as white as this background. Now this may all sound unnecessary, I mean, who doesn't know what a human looks like? But I remember that when I was a kid, I always saw these images, and because they were all I saw, I did not know what a human being looked like for real. I'm talking about pubic hair.
THERE ARE NO PUBES IN THE IMAGE! When I was a kid I thought I was a freak for having pubes, but now, as far as I know, 100% of adults have them(if they're straight.) Don't make another child go through what I went through.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.162.211.246 ( talk • contribs)
Have you heard of the spacecraft Pioneer? The picture has significance. Not the most appropriate but all we have for now. Any other suggestions for a picture? David D. (Talk) 04:18, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
The Vitruvian Man is a good idea. As would somewhere in the article there being some kind of "timeline" of what a human looks like from birth (or, preferably, the Fertilized egg) to death (or at least old age) Tar7arus 20:51, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
Or we could just use a real picture for people. There are plenty of those floating around. TostitosAreGross
Why were the primates in Africa exclusively those that evolved into humans? Why not primates on other continents? And if Africa was the only one with primates, why were they?
-G—Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.231.132.103 ( talk • contribs)
---
I like that question very much, thank you. Many of us have constructed various modules of computer models and Gedanken experiments to tease out some of the special qualities of what happened in Africa five million years ago when some of our ancestors had to evolve into humans--or perish. (Richard Wrangham & Dale Peterson, Demonic Males: Apes and the Origins of Human Violence (1996). So what was so special about the environment in Africa five million years ago?
Could these changes have occurred other places on earth? Everybody is still looking for good evidence that some of us may have evolved from environments other than Africa five million years ago. But all of the humans all over the world tested and gene-matched so far come from ancestors in Africa.
Where else on Earth do you have a vast jungle in which people might have evolved? How about the Amazon? The trouble with the Amazon is that in the last five million years, there has not been a vast drying event that left a slowly shrinking island of fruit trees that would force ancestors to evolve into people. But you may say, "Why couldn't a plains dwelling buffalo-like creature in North America five million years ago evolve into humans?" And I would say, "Well, just look at the average baseball pitcher's arm. That shoulder blade that powers that whip that makes the curveball do its thing was evolved from millions of year of swinging from one fruit-bearing tree-branch to another. So without millions of years swinging from trees, you would not get what evolved into humans. So humans surely started in a jungle of trees."
So all of this above is hypothesis for testing against new and old facts as we find them. But apparently it happened only in Africa because only in Africa was there a 1) vast-enough patch of fruit trees that 2) dried slowly enough to force ancestors to evolve into humans that changed their diet, evolved, and discovered enough technology to make it through the tough times. -- Rednblu 05:08, 6 August 2006 (UTC)
From Talk:Person
"A human being is a member of the genetic species Homo sapiens" -- Two different senses of "is" are possible here: (1) "Is" of time (what situation currently exists) ("My dog is eating") or (2) "Logical is", independent of time ("A dog is a mammal."). In sense (1), a human being is [currently] a member of the genetic species Homo sapiens; however in sense (2), should all members of genus Homo be included as human beings or not? "Neanderthals were human beings", " Homo erectus were human beings." -- I suspect that this has been discussed here before, but I've skimmed this page and didn't see this specific issue (species sapiens vs genus Homo as the definition of "human being"). -- 201.50.123.251 14:09, 23 August 2006 (UTC)
In my eyes, either is acceptable, although I suspect sense 1 is more apporpriate
Tar7arus 14:36, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
This article does not answer (I spend half a minut scanning it) a very important questions: how old humans (homo sapiens - redirectts here) is. This information should be in lead!-- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk 18:49, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
It depends of your definition of humans.The separation in too species is rather arbitrary.But an anser would be that the last 50.000 years we are virtually the same.-- Pixel ;-) 00:35, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
How come there's a bunch of self glorifing, egocentric, flattering stuff. And the destruction of the planet is buried somewhere. For example, it was found that the Chernobyl disaster effects were beneficial to the environment.-- Pixel ;-) 00:31, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
From the infobox "Conservation status: Secure". I personaly find that assertion rather indescent.-- Pixel ;-) 00:38, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
I have moved the following paragrpah here from the article page because it s unsourced, and a citation has been requested for more than a month. Do not re-insert it in the article without citing a source.
-- Donald Albury 21:03, 14 September 2006 (UTC)
I think that to make this article complete, it is necessary to recognize alternate theories for the origin of man, including Creationism. However, I also think that the section should include the origin theories of the Hindu, Buddhist, Norse, Greek, Zoroastrian, Mayan, ... ...etc. I see it as the same as acknowledging the etymology of certain words. We should acknowledge the huge variety of different "origin of species" theories. ..While maintaining that Evolution is the only theory supported by evidence and research. -- Trajan 01:34, 20 September 2006
Isn't the now PC term for creationist theories termed as creationist myths. I don't think myths should be placed in a factual article, it should be treated like any other article about an animal species. Your statement also has flaws. Like for instance you want the origin theory for Buddhism? Err Buddhism doesn't have any origin theories, in fact Buddha taught his followers not to question the creation of the universe, they are ignostics. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 196.2.56.5 ( talk • contribs)
The average healthy North Americam male 21 years old is now over 6"-2" or 185 cm and weights about 191 lbs or 87 kg (athletic built).
The average healthy (excluding anorexiacs) North Americam female 21 years old is now over 5"- 9" or 175 cm and weights about 150 lbs or 67 kg (athletic built).
It is related to different nutrition which is now making changes in healthy US style of life. So the data about average North American male and female looks like just a little distorted! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.62.251.246 ( talk • contribs)
How can the U.S.A. have such a low weight average for both men and women considering that they are the most obese country in the world!! This would suggest that no other country in the world would have an average weight of more than what was suggested for the U.S.A.!! That's obsurd —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.131.20.201 ( talk • contribs)
I've tried to solve this bias problem by substituting the data for the tallest and shortest peoples instead. TimVickers 16:20, 30 October 2006 (UTC)
This article seems to assume you're not human. thart makes no sence. Zazaban 15:06, 21 September 2006 (UTC)
Well, I'm sure your dog will be offended when he reads this and finds out we dont think he's introspective. Seriously though, maybe it can be fixed with a simple "Humans are the only prinates evidenced to have a highly developed.... (etc)". Amirite? --
D-Gen 08:41, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
To me, this passage does not make sense:
"A minority believes they are an anatomically herbivorous species, and have started using agriculture (non-animal based) foodstuffs only recently.[19] Another minority believes that anatomically, they are primarily carnivorous, many members of which have begun consuming food of animal origin.[20]"
Some people believe that we are anatomically herbivorous, who have started using non-animal food only recently. This is backwards. If we were anatomically herbivorous, we would eat non-animal food by default, and only start eating animal food in the recent past. The next sentance is also backwards. I have changed it, if my reading of it is incorrect, well, change it back I guess Harley peters 14:54, 24 September 2006 (UTC)
Centimeters is spelled wrong. And The Difference between Homo Sapeins Sapeins and Homo Sapiens is that H.S. Sapiens is the speices and sub speices.Homo Sapiens is just the spieces. Amanda J. Rowe 18:57, 24 September 2006 (UTC) DarkDragon123
I agree with Striver I don't want to see that , because I just want The info for my report.It's completely disturbing. for more information adout this go to Dicussion 12 Picture
Amanda J. Rowe 19:22, 24 September 2006 (UTC)DarkDragon123
"A minority believes they are an anatomically carnivorous species, and have started using agriculture (non-animal based) foodstuffs only recently.[19] Another minority believes that anatomically, they are primarily herbivorous, many members of which have begun consuming food of animal origin.[20]" Shouldn't carnivorous and herbivorous be switched around in the above place, becuase what the atricle is curently stateing is " minority believes they are an anatomically 'meat-eaters'and have started using agriculture (non-animal based) foodstuffs only recently. Another minority believes that anatomically, they are primarily non-meat eaters(plant), many members of which have begun consuming food of animal origin" That doesn't make sense enless what it means is " a group that ONCE belived humans were anatomically carnivorous has started to eat non-animal based food products" and vice-versa? Acurding to what is wriiten above it was chanegd from what I vewi as a correct format to an incorect one. Which way is right. I belive the orginal way was right, and the words in the article currently need to be switched around. Also make this statement clear(er) for the reader.
Thank you for making the part of the article I was refering to above clearer to the reader. (September 26 2006)
Accoarding to Wik's strange convention, common names of species should be capitalized. So, what about "humans"? Kdammers 03:53, 29 September 2006 (UTC)
Have there been any fossil Homo sapiens sapiens discovered in Southeast Asia so far? When did they live? From which which ancestors did they evolve?
"Humans are also noted for their desire to understand and influence the world around them, seeking to explain and manipulate natural phenomena through religion, science, philosophy and mythology. " - This phrase is inaccurate - religion does not actually explain nor manipulate natural phenomena, and in any case the parts of religion which were postulated in order to 'explain' things such as lighting would come under mythology. Therefore surely 'religion' is unnecessary in this sentence? Retsudo 20:15, 13 October 2006 (UTC)
Chernobyl disaster effects#Effect on the natural world
I'm proposing to include a section on the isue.The destruction of the environment i mean.If Chernobyll is beter now with radiation and no humans,than with humans and no radiation,then shurely the destruction of the environment deserves a section.-- Pixel ;-) 18:42, 26 October 2006 (UTC)
If you feel that way why are you still living? Your life is harming many animals. Deer populations rise when wolves are removed from the area. Humans just have a wide variety of "prey" so its not special and shouldent be in the article.
There are many thing wrong with the rest of the text. I fixed it by rewriting the first paragraph and removing the last. The text has an attitude of antihumanism, antiphilosophy, authoritarianism and nihilism. It prevents understading by derouting the subject with an overly complicated text, it suggests that philosophy is a futile hobby, where people think more than is necessairy and make things too complicated. It favors the dictated form of action where things are what they are and not to be questioned. It puts quantitative and qualitative, and observational and hypothetical in a line of better and worse and dispises speculative as a form of prejudice, which has nothing to do with reality. It suggests that hypothetical has only a speculative value. Please rewrite this. Teemu Ruskeepää 08:22, 29 October 2006 (UTC)
wtf are u talking about?!-- D-Gen 08:45, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
These two terms seem to be used interchangeably in the article, I think the most common usage is "developing country" as even highly developed countries can be relatively unindustrialized if they depend heavily on agriculture for industry. Can I standardise this as "developed/developing" in the article? TimVickers 16:18, 30 October 2006 (UTC)
As someone who enjoys Wikipedia, but is often rather critical of it, I just wanted to say this struck me as a very good article. Obviously, judging from the talk page here, people are still arguing about parts of it, and the article probably could indeed be improved, but I really think this is still a great example of what Wikipedia can be... I find it far better than a lot of the so-called "feature articles". So, congrats everybody. :) 69.175.141.106 15:59, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
Hi all,
I have promoted this article to good article status. Apart from the good ideas in the FARC nomination. Some other things you might want to look at:
Cedars 07:03, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
May I call a person a primate? A tetrapod? A reptile? 72.194.116.63 01:04, 25 March 2007 (UTC) Vahe Demirjian 17.03 24 March 2007
Hello,
Below is a reconstructed, exhaustive, scientific classification of human, that I have made solely by following links.
Taxon | Name |
---|---|
Domain | Eukaryota |
Kingdom | Animalia |
Subkingdom | Eumetazoa |
(unranked) (why?) | Bilateria |
Superphylum | Deuterostomia |
Phylum | Chordata |
(unranked) (why?) | Craniata |
Subphylum | Vertebrata |
Infraphylum | Gnathostomata |
Microphylum | Eugnathostomata |
(unranked) (why?) | Teleostomi |
Superclass | Osteichthyes |
Class | Sarcopterygii |
Subclass | Tetrapodomorpha |
Superclass (Yes, again) | Tetrapoda |
(unranked) (why?) | Amniota |
Class (yes, again) | Synapsida |
(unranked) (why?) | Mammaliaformes |
Class (yes, once again) | Mammalia |
Subclass | Theria |
Subclass (yes, again) | Eutheria |
Infraclass | Epitheria |
Superorder | Euarchontoglires |
Superorder (yes, again) | Euarchonta |
Order | Primates |
Suborder | Haplorrhin |
Parvorder | Catarrhini |
Superfamily | Hominoidea |
Family | Hominidae |
Subfamily | Homininae |
Tribe | Hominini |
Subtribe | Hominina |
Genus | Homo |
Species | Homo sapiens |
Subspecies | Homo sapiens sapiens |
As you can see, this is a bit inconsistent. Could someone tell me what is wrong? Some Wikipedia information are incorrect here, but which ones? Thank you.
David Latapie (
✒ |
@) 20:22, 3 December 2006 (UTC)
I just noticed that Wikinfo's human article is more neutral than Wikipedia's. — goethean ॐ 19:37, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
Various religious groups have raised objections and controversy concerning the theory of humanity's evolution from a common ancestor with the other hominoids. See creationism and argument from evolution for opposing points of view.
This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
What is the difference between Homo sapiens and Homo sapiens sapiens? Thank you. -- Abdull 21:27, 26 March 2006 (UTC)
Needed in the article, not on the talk page! ;) This is not the first time this complaint has come up, and it is a valid one. Sam Spade 22:56, 26 March 2006 (UTC)
Its a tiny speck. What I was asking for is a lengthier discussion of idaltu, as well as a discussion of mankinds future evolution. Clearly were not going to be Homo sapiens sapiens forever, are we? Sam Spade 17:40, 27 March 2006 (UTC)
Er... "we" will be homo sapiens sapiens forever because as things currently stand, natural selection doesnt apply to us. We live in a world where people live to reproduce regardless of genetic traits. -- D-Gen 08:26, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
I find the emphasis placed on the "epidemic" proportions of obesity in some countries to be very skewed. I'm pretty sure that far more people are starving and malnourished than are obese; yet, starvation is only mentioned in passing. As this is not the "Humans in the Western world" article, I think that the problem of starvation and malnutrition is far more severe, important, and prevalent than that of obesity, and should accordingly get more article space. Thoughts? -- Ashenai 22:20, 28 May 2006 (UTC)
The edit history of the Human page demonstrates the dogmatic censorship of the evolutionists who refuse to allow a balanced presentation of the reality of what "human" is. The situation is hopeless. It is a waste of time to attempt to bring any degree of balance to the human page, for the evolutionist bigots will not allow a balanced NPOV presentation of what published scholars say "human" is. For example, the current first sentence is as unbalanced and warped as would be a lead sentence that began as follows: Autos, or cars, are hunks of metal. While it is true that autos are hunks of metal, the lead statement "Autos are hunks of metal" derides the sophisticated engineering that makes a hunk of metal into an auto. -- Rednblu 05:53, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
My proposed division of the article, which has not been discussed, is located at:
(They were originally all at my userspace. I moved them to "draft" to encourage people to work on them. Then Duncharris moved Human back to my userspace.) Currently, Human, Homo sapiens and Humanity all redirect to the article under discussion. But this article defines human beings as homo sapiens only. An article on "Humanity" should emphasize aspects other than our animal nature. An article that is simultaneously on Human, Humanity and homo sapiens must carefully balance the animal, socio-cultural and conscious aspects of human beings. The intro to this article emphasizes only the biological/animal aspect. That is why the "unbalanced" tag is necessary. To overcome this difficulty, I recommend splitting the article into three as above. — goethean ॐ 16:02, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
The Encyclopedia Britannica entry (as reported above) is far less reductive (and therefore more accurate, and therefore better) than the current version of this article. EB has "culture-bearing" before "primate". It then further balances the biology text with: "...but is distinguished by a more highly developed brain and a resultant capacity for articulate speech and abstract reasoning". In fact, the culture text outweighs the biology text ("...primate that is anatomically similar and related to the other great apes..."). There are 21 words about culture (incl. the brain, speech, reasoning) and 12 words about biology/paleo-anthropology in EB's 1st sentence. You have, of course, banished all culture text to much later in the article.
Additionally, some of the WP text in the first paragraph are almost lifted from the EB's second sentence, which is very bad. WP's 1st paragraph is basically the EB's entry, with all of the culture talk subtracted out. Which is really quite amazing. In my opinion, the first sentence is extremely important. It defines the subject. The idea that biology should be presented first and the other stuff later is not only a very bad idea, it results in the dissemination of a POV definition of humanity.
Encyclopedia Britannica:
Wikipedia:
Fortunately, when one consults Google, the old 2002, NPOV, compromise version of the article comes up rather than the current, POV, non-compromise version. — goethean ॐ 21:30, 14 June 2006 (UTC)
a culture-bearing primate that is anatomically similar and related to the other great apes but is distinguished by a more highly developed brain and a resultant capacity for articulate speech and abstract reasoning. In addition, human beings display a marked erectness of body carriage that frees the hands for use as manipulative members. Some of these characteristics, however, are not entirely unique to humans. The gap in cognition, as in anatomy, between humans and the other great apes ( orangutans, gorillas, and chimpanzees) is much less than was once thought, as they have been shown to possess a variety of advanced cognitive abilities formerly believed to be restricted to humans. Traditionally, humans were considered the sole recent representatives of the family Hominidae, but recent findings indicate that chimpanzees (and bonobos) are more closely related to humans than are gorillas and orangutans and that the chimpanzee and human lines separated only about five million years ago. Therefore, all great apes are now gathered with humans into Hominidae, and within this family humans and their extinct ancestors are considered to make up the “tribe” Hominini. See also Homo sapiens; human evolution.
Per Silence's q, above - what about taking on the Love and Sexuality section? IMHO, sexual reproduction is a Biological thing, not a Motivation and emotion thing. Well, motivation... why is that section Motivation and emotion? Could we come up with a better title? KillerChihuahua ?!? 20:48, 15 June 2006 (UTC)
My understanding is 10-14 days without food and 3-4 days without water. JPotter 17:11, 16 June 2006 (UTC)
Homo sapien is clearly an animal who begins life as a single cell, grows and changes, until at some point there is enough irreversible damage to enough cells that there is no longer a living body, but merely isolated living cells that can not in the normal course of events regrow into a new body. Human, on the other hand, does not begin and does not end with mere human cell beginning and ending; but with something more. Some believe in a soul that gets added and removed. Governments define the start and end of human rights such as at the start of ther third trimester until braindeath. The human mind itself is recognizable in a functioning human body and would still be a human mind were it made of other than meat - a goal of Artificial Intelligence. A homo sapien body without a mind is not a human. A human mind housed in a non-homo-sapien body is a human. WAS 4.250 16:03, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
Yes, but just because we are more advanced in ways other animals are not does not make us “special”. For example, dogs are more advanced in hearing than us.
Robots don't strictly appear to be human, they can look like anything.
Then can you elaborate‽
No, a PC (or a more general term, computer) can never “evolve”. They may make a newer and better computer but a Windows 95 will never “evolve” into Windows 98.
Once again, can you elaborate your meaning so we can?
It seems a lot of people are misunderstanding you, maybe you should make things more clearer.
They are alive, regardless of their rights or abilities. A vegetable person is still a human, and so is a dead person. We don't say dinosaurs are not dinosuars because they're dead
No, a study and point of view are different. A study is to well… study something, and a point of view is your belief.
FlareNUKE 02:17, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
Well, WAS 4.250, if you're failing to realize yet that all species are equally transitional, and you seem to be under some kind of a belief that humans are The Final Product of evolution, then perhaps there remains no basis on which to engage in further discussion. Perhaps we'll have to start from very basics here. Do you doubt the validity of evolution? deeptrivia ( talk) 02:36, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
(I don't know why we're really into odd, terse subsection titles now, but I guess I'll join in on the fun!)
1. "romantic beliefs that humans are special animals Humans have gone to the moon. This is real, not romantic."
2. "There's no such thing as a "non-homo-sapiens body" robot"
4. "Your main error is not in your contrasting of biological and nonbiological, it's in your assumption that this contrast is equatable with a contrast between the terms human and Homo sapiens. I failed to communicate. You are addressing aspects of my failure to communicate and not the substance of what I an trying to discuss. I apologize for my inarticulateness."
5. "All species are equally transitional. false"
9. "And yet PCs will never "evolve beyond their hardware" PCs are evolving faster than organic life forms"
12. ""Creator of the future"? What is this, a cult pamphlet? Do you believe you can make a choice that affects the future?"
13. "First you argued that people lose their legal "human rights" when they have no mind because No. No. No. all the stuff after the "because" is garbage. Brain dead people are not legally alive anymore. it's a fact. I'm not arguing from theory. I'm stating observable fact."
14. "Please refrain from incivility: if someone tells you that something you said is highly offensive, it is extremely inappropriate and irresponsible of you to respond with "be responsible for your own emotions". There is a great difference between an offensive/infammatory word and an idea. You may not censor ideas under the principl of civility."
15. " Biology is a field of study, not a "point of view" the two are not exclusive."
Biology is a word. That word can be used identify a field of study. That word can be used to identify a point of view. That you don't see it as a point of view and that there are other points of view is my point. This relates to this article in that Homo Sapiens should be an article (that explores in full the point of view that human=homo sapiens) and not be a redirect. The article human can and should remain similar to what it is but with more room to explore other points of view and less needing to fully flesh out the homo sapiens aspect of being human (one of many correct viewpoints). Argumentation for the sake of argumentation is not what I came here for. Instead of engaging in a conversation to improve the article, I receive debate for the sake of debate. Nonsense like "evolution" can only mean biological evolution in the context of the evolution of the PC is debate for the sake of debate. WAS 4.250 13:57, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
Example: Legal point of view. What is it "to be human" from a current Western government legal point of view? I point out that humans lose their legal "human rights" when they have no mind (but are still "homo sapiens"). The responses I got were from a biology point of view. WAS 4.250 14:12, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
Anyway, I was thinking of replacing the image of the two poorly drawn NASA things for the people in outer-space with an actual human, it should be an adult and any ethnicity or gender will do, And I argue to the fact that we would need to show so many humans to represent every kind is that the Pleocyemata article does not show every type, just an American lobster.
The other images should also not be artist's deceptions of humans but instead ACTUAL humans with execption to the art category. I'd rather see humans in their activities and habitat then a drawing or sclupture of a man.
-- FlareNUKE 22:25, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
Silence i just saw your post above which makes this compilation i made a bit moot. i thought we could look at some different types of pictures to see try and get a feeling for style. Now i have seen your list above I'll think of some more with respect to other pictures i might have seen while googling this bunch. The major problem here is that we will need someone to doante the appropriate picture for our use.
When i picked out these photos i was thinking of what types of things would be needed. A) invokes generations and age, B) a street seen people about their business, including children, men and women but also eye catching. C) emotion, love (heterosexual) D) youth, male and female, E) athleticism, diversity F) great picture from the depression, emotion despair ( a bit depressing and probaly too arty), G) I forgot this one. H) diversity, racial and gender with emotions on top. I) another depression era photo, i couldn't resist it since it is a great photo of the worried mother and scared/tired children, in retrospect really not that useful for this article. David D. (Talk) 05:24, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
the 2 refs give diferent numbers. is it 98.4% or 96% or is it disputed? someone find out. ... humans have approximately 20,000–25,000 genes and share 98.4% of their DNA with their closest living evolutionary relatives, the two species of chimpanzees.[7]... ... in fact, chimpanzee and human DNA is 96% identical.[13] ... —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 216.94.200.9 ( talk • contribs) 22:56, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
Perhaps some combination of the below two ideas would be useful. WAS 4.250 18:39, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
{{ Humans}}
−10 — – −9 — – −8 — – −7 — – −6 — – −5 — – −4 — – −3 — – −2 — – −1 — – 0 — | (
O. praegens) ( O. tugenensis) (
Ar. kadabba) (
Ar. ramidus) |
| ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
It is useful to tie articles together. We already do this in a variety of ways. One common technique is a footer. We already have those on this article, although the one Silence created (and I moved to a new name) above could be added to the foot of this article, especially as it lacks a see also section. WAS 4.250 22:00, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
It is also common on articles (that in Britannica would be larger than our format allows) for the article to be divided up into a suite of articles with a navigation box at the top of each of them allowing a reader to quickly find the exact part of the issue they are looking for. This can also be done to create a suite of articles from articles rthat were comcieved and created as seperate entities as a step in coordinating them. I think it would be useful to think of the human article as a flagship article for a suite of articles that once connected with a navigation box at the top can be coordinated over time to be a representation of Wikipedia at its best. WAS 4.250 22:00, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
The relatively unique labor during childbirth is mentioned but not why - the relatively large head size due to a relatively large brain. I have replaced this.
I also rewrote some of the next sentence - it said childbirth is a "dangerous ordeal, in remote, underdeveloped regions". Remote? Where is Rio de Janeiro remote from, the person writing that sentence? And where is that person from? I rewrote that. Ruy Lopez 17:42, 25 June 2006 (UTC)
Yeah, i know, wikipedia is not cencored and what more, but i would still prefere to not get a dick in my face every time i get to this page...-- Striver 00:19, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
Silence, im not a troll, i am ea editor with more than 10k edits. And i am talking about this pages content. I really do not appreciate you moving away my comments to my talk page, but i won't move them back.
I repeat: I see no point in showing a pair of breast and a dick in a article about human. i dont see (explicit!) this picture over at horse, and i dont get why i get the dick and breast in this article. Either tell me that you support puting (explicit!) this picture into Donkey, or support me on removing the picture away from here. -- Striver 19:44, 8 July 2006 (UTC)
Hello? -- Striver 15:37, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
I am rather sure that this is wrong. Homo sapiens Linnaeus, 1758 is correct. But I am very skeptical that Linnaeus named a subspecies. Technically we need to find who first used H. s. sapiens for anatomically modern human and credit that person or persons with the trinomial name while giving Linnaeus credit for Homo and H. sapiens. Anyone with documentation, one way or the other, please speak up. MichaelSH 00:26, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
When I read the article, it seemed that it was aimed at a non-human. Should it be changed? 0L1 21:45, 14 July 2006 (UTC)
I still don't see the difference between the Homo sapiens idaltu, and the Cro-Magnons. Are the Cro-Magnons essentially early modern-day humans? And what about the idaltu? I've looked at representational images of each, and they all look like modern day humans to me. What is the difference? Are they of the same species/subspecies as us? The article seems to indicate that Cro-Magnons are early humans. So which would be the closest relative/species/sub-species to modern day man (that ever lived); would this be the floriensis, cro-magnon, neanderthals, or the idaltu; in which of our closest relatives are the most "intelligent"? 165.196.149.50 19:08, 18 July 2006 (UTC)
Homo sapiens idaltu appears to be the earliest form of H. sapiens. "Cro-Magnon" is merely the earliest known example of H. sapiens sapiens in Europe, although H. sapiens sapiens had spread through Asia and reached Australia 25,000 years before "Cro-Magnon" appeared in Europe. Neanderthals were a different species. [6] Homo floresiensis was a specialized species, possibly descended from Homo erectus (see Homo floresiensis). Intelligence is a tricky concept, even when the subjects of study are alive. Neanderthals, Flores man, and early H. sapiens all left tools behind. I'm not qualified to evaluate the intelligence required to produce their respective tool kits, but I will note that H. sapiens was around for 150,000 years or more before any of them began to advance beyond Paleolithic cultures. -- Donald Albury( Talk) 20:55, 18 July 2006 (UTC)
Rather than engage in an edit war on the article page, I will state here that I believe that the view that humans are herbivores and not omnivores is a fringe belief, held by a small minority, and should be treated accordingly in the article. As is discussed in the reference I added, vegetarians do not necessarily deny that humans are omnivores. The argument for vegetarianism can be made without distorting the facts of human anatomy, physiology and history. -- Donald Albury( Talk) 18:51, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
lol wow... i cant believe this is even debatable. Humans are obviously omnivores, and arguing that they arent is just a lame fabrication to push a vegetarian's agenda. Period. I DIDNT EAT ANY VEGETABLES THIS WEEK AND I THINK I MIGHT LIVE! -- D-Gen 08:32, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
why does the main picture contain a white women, and a white man, clearly judging from the colorless picture, and facial attributes, I think the picture should be replaced with a big circle of people of all colors holding hands.. with a rainbow (just kidding) but it should have all colors of people in one picture, because i personally find it offensive to look for a diffenition of human and see only white people in the main picture... and thats coming from a white person.i just hope you guys to take note. just to clarify we 'all' are the human species, i wasn't going to bring up racial differences but the main picture just made me mad! especially with the stereotypes of 'whiteman' and 'whitewomen' being dominant. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 75.15.236.166 ( talk • contribs) .
Apparently the above statement is wrong. See Wrangham & Peterson, Demonic Males: Apes and the Origins of Human Violence (1996). To make the above statement conform to empirical evidence, perhaps you must define "war" in a distorted way--or perhaps you must adopt a strange definition of "unique"--or maybe even a non-traditional definiton of "human." In any case, surely you should find and cite a reputable scholar who would support such a strange idea as "War is a concept seemingly unique to humans." -- Rednblu 06:19, 24 July 2006 (UTC)
Lostsocks 00:08, 13 October 2006 (UTC)
What's up with everything in the evolution section sounding like its 100% fact? I'd like to see some emphasis on the fact that it is a theory. Also, since we have evolution, there should be some balance with a creationistic view of human origin.-- Gotmesomepants 19:02, 29 July 2006 (UTC)
<<<<<Can we go back and discuss the article, and ways to improve it? These pages are not designed to be used as a discussion forum. Thank you for your consideration. ≈ jossi ≈ t • @ 02:49, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
It seems that a great deal of people have debated about whether the section on evolution in this article should be altered, kept intact, or removed entirely. Proponents of all sides of the argument seem to be missing the point that Wikipedia's ultimate goal, as I understand it, is to create a database of accurate, unbiased information on as many worthwhile subjects as possible. The current section on evolution isn't particularly biased, but what could be considered a bias of some form is the omission of any section regarding alternate theories (I know, the "T" word!) or beliefs about the origin of humans.
Therefore, I propose that a new section be created which details all of the major "sides" of the "where did we come from" question. This section could include both evolution and creationism, but keep in mind that Christian creationism is not the only form of creationism belief out there, and in fact I'm certain that if one were to look hard enough a third or even fourth completely different belief regarding our beginnings could be unearthed. Ultimately, what I'm saying is that humans are most likely never going to come to a 100% complete consensus on... well, probably any topic in particular, but contributors should recognize that having alternate theories on our origin could be very useful for those searching for more detailed information on humans. It doesn't have to be deep and soulfull, but it should definitely be informative, and I figure that so long as everyone gets their equal share of opinion-space (man do I hate saying this, since opinion rarely has a place in an encyclopedia article, but with this topic there's not much that can be done to avoid that), then everyone will at least agree that the article touches base on the important things and we can move on to improving other sections.
I would appreciate feedback on my proposal, including constructive critisicm or just generally whatever you think. 70.56.153.122 08:28, 11 August 2006 (UTC) (Josh M)
The picture at the top of the article is wrong. First, it shows drawings. Bad Drawings. In Black and White. I understand that it may be too "extreme" to include color pictures of real humans, given the fact that wikipedia is so staunchly conservative(which is a good thing), but don't you think we could provide a more accurate depicton than that? It can even be a drawing, as long as it was done by someone who can actually write, like the vitruvian man by leonardo da vinci maybe? Or, even better, a picture that is in color. Imagine if there was aliens, they would think all humans look like they are 30 years old, and as white as this background. Now this may all sound unnecessary, I mean, who doesn't know what a human looks like? But I remember that when I was a kid, I always saw these images, and because they were all I saw, I did not know what a human being looked like for real. I'm talking about pubic hair.
THERE ARE NO PUBES IN THE IMAGE! When I was a kid I thought I was a freak for having pubes, but now, as far as I know, 100% of adults have them(if they're straight.) Don't make another child go through what I went through.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.162.211.246 ( talk • contribs)
Have you heard of the spacecraft Pioneer? The picture has significance. Not the most appropriate but all we have for now. Any other suggestions for a picture? David D. (Talk) 04:18, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
The Vitruvian Man is a good idea. As would somewhere in the article there being some kind of "timeline" of what a human looks like from birth (or, preferably, the Fertilized egg) to death (or at least old age) Tar7arus 20:51, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
Or we could just use a real picture for people. There are plenty of those floating around. TostitosAreGross
Why were the primates in Africa exclusively those that evolved into humans? Why not primates on other continents? And if Africa was the only one with primates, why were they?
-G—Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.231.132.103 ( talk • contribs)
---
I like that question very much, thank you. Many of us have constructed various modules of computer models and Gedanken experiments to tease out some of the special qualities of what happened in Africa five million years ago when some of our ancestors had to evolve into humans--or perish. (Richard Wrangham & Dale Peterson, Demonic Males: Apes and the Origins of Human Violence (1996). So what was so special about the environment in Africa five million years ago?
Could these changes have occurred other places on earth? Everybody is still looking for good evidence that some of us may have evolved from environments other than Africa five million years ago. But all of the humans all over the world tested and gene-matched so far come from ancestors in Africa.
Where else on Earth do you have a vast jungle in which people might have evolved? How about the Amazon? The trouble with the Amazon is that in the last five million years, there has not been a vast drying event that left a slowly shrinking island of fruit trees that would force ancestors to evolve into people. But you may say, "Why couldn't a plains dwelling buffalo-like creature in North America five million years ago evolve into humans?" And I would say, "Well, just look at the average baseball pitcher's arm. That shoulder blade that powers that whip that makes the curveball do its thing was evolved from millions of year of swinging from one fruit-bearing tree-branch to another. So without millions of years swinging from trees, you would not get what evolved into humans. So humans surely started in a jungle of trees."
So all of this above is hypothesis for testing against new and old facts as we find them. But apparently it happened only in Africa because only in Africa was there a 1) vast-enough patch of fruit trees that 2) dried slowly enough to force ancestors to evolve into humans that changed their diet, evolved, and discovered enough technology to make it through the tough times. -- Rednblu 05:08, 6 August 2006 (UTC)
From Talk:Person
"A human being is a member of the genetic species Homo sapiens" -- Two different senses of "is" are possible here: (1) "Is" of time (what situation currently exists) ("My dog is eating") or (2) "Logical is", independent of time ("A dog is a mammal."). In sense (1), a human being is [currently] a member of the genetic species Homo sapiens; however in sense (2), should all members of genus Homo be included as human beings or not? "Neanderthals were human beings", " Homo erectus were human beings." -- I suspect that this has been discussed here before, but I've skimmed this page and didn't see this specific issue (species sapiens vs genus Homo as the definition of "human being"). -- 201.50.123.251 14:09, 23 August 2006 (UTC)
In my eyes, either is acceptable, although I suspect sense 1 is more apporpriate
Tar7arus 14:36, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
This article does not answer (I spend half a minut scanning it) a very important questions: how old humans (homo sapiens - redirectts here) is. This information should be in lead!-- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk 18:49, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
It depends of your definition of humans.The separation in too species is rather arbitrary.But an anser would be that the last 50.000 years we are virtually the same.-- Pixel ;-) 00:35, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
How come there's a bunch of self glorifing, egocentric, flattering stuff. And the destruction of the planet is buried somewhere. For example, it was found that the Chernobyl disaster effects were beneficial to the environment.-- Pixel ;-) 00:31, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
From the infobox "Conservation status: Secure". I personaly find that assertion rather indescent.-- Pixel ;-) 00:38, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
I have moved the following paragrpah here from the article page because it s unsourced, and a citation has been requested for more than a month. Do not re-insert it in the article without citing a source.
-- Donald Albury 21:03, 14 September 2006 (UTC)
I think that to make this article complete, it is necessary to recognize alternate theories for the origin of man, including Creationism. However, I also think that the section should include the origin theories of the Hindu, Buddhist, Norse, Greek, Zoroastrian, Mayan, ... ...etc. I see it as the same as acknowledging the etymology of certain words. We should acknowledge the huge variety of different "origin of species" theories. ..While maintaining that Evolution is the only theory supported by evidence and research. -- Trajan 01:34, 20 September 2006
Isn't the now PC term for creationist theories termed as creationist myths. I don't think myths should be placed in a factual article, it should be treated like any other article about an animal species. Your statement also has flaws. Like for instance you want the origin theory for Buddhism? Err Buddhism doesn't have any origin theories, in fact Buddha taught his followers not to question the creation of the universe, they are ignostics. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 196.2.56.5 ( talk • contribs)
The average healthy North Americam male 21 years old is now over 6"-2" or 185 cm and weights about 191 lbs or 87 kg (athletic built).
The average healthy (excluding anorexiacs) North Americam female 21 years old is now over 5"- 9" or 175 cm and weights about 150 lbs or 67 kg (athletic built).
It is related to different nutrition which is now making changes in healthy US style of life. So the data about average North American male and female looks like just a little distorted! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.62.251.246 ( talk • contribs)
How can the U.S.A. have such a low weight average for both men and women considering that they are the most obese country in the world!! This would suggest that no other country in the world would have an average weight of more than what was suggested for the U.S.A.!! That's obsurd —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.131.20.201 ( talk • contribs)
I've tried to solve this bias problem by substituting the data for the tallest and shortest peoples instead. TimVickers 16:20, 30 October 2006 (UTC)
This article seems to assume you're not human. thart makes no sence. Zazaban 15:06, 21 September 2006 (UTC)
Well, I'm sure your dog will be offended when he reads this and finds out we dont think he's introspective. Seriously though, maybe it can be fixed with a simple "Humans are the only prinates evidenced to have a highly developed.... (etc)". Amirite? --
D-Gen 08:41, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
To me, this passage does not make sense:
"A minority believes they are an anatomically herbivorous species, and have started using agriculture (non-animal based) foodstuffs only recently.[19] Another minority believes that anatomically, they are primarily carnivorous, many members of which have begun consuming food of animal origin.[20]"
Some people believe that we are anatomically herbivorous, who have started using non-animal food only recently. This is backwards. If we were anatomically herbivorous, we would eat non-animal food by default, and only start eating animal food in the recent past. The next sentance is also backwards. I have changed it, if my reading of it is incorrect, well, change it back I guess Harley peters 14:54, 24 September 2006 (UTC)
Centimeters is spelled wrong. And The Difference between Homo Sapeins Sapeins and Homo Sapiens is that H.S. Sapiens is the speices and sub speices.Homo Sapiens is just the spieces. Amanda J. Rowe 18:57, 24 September 2006 (UTC) DarkDragon123
I agree with Striver I don't want to see that , because I just want The info for my report.It's completely disturbing. for more information adout this go to Dicussion 12 Picture
Amanda J. Rowe 19:22, 24 September 2006 (UTC)DarkDragon123
"A minority believes they are an anatomically carnivorous species, and have started using agriculture (non-animal based) foodstuffs only recently.[19] Another minority believes that anatomically, they are primarily herbivorous, many members of which have begun consuming food of animal origin.[20]" Shouldn't carnivorous and herbivorous be switched around in the above place, becuase what the atricle is curently stateing is " minority believes they are an anatomically 'meat-eaters'and have started using agriculture (non-animal based) foodstuffs only recently. Another minority believes that anatomically, they are primarily non-meat eaters(plant), many members of which have begun consuming food of animal origin" That doesn't make sense enless what it means is " a group that ONCE belived humans were anatomically carnivorous has started to eat non-animal based food products" and vice-versa? Acurding to what is wriiten above it was chanegd from what I vewi as a correct format to an incorect one. Which way is right. I belive the orginal way was right, and the words in the article currently need to be switched around. Also make this statement clear(er) for the reader.
Thank you for making the part of the article I was refering to above clearer to the reader. (September 26 2006)
Accoarding to Wik's strange convention, common names of species should be capitalized. So, what about "humans"? Kdammers 03:53, 29 September 2006 (UTC)
Have there been any fossil Homo sapiens sapiens discovered in Southeast Asia so far? When did they live? From which which ancestors did they evolve?
"Humans are also noted for their desire to understand and influence the world around them, seeking to explain and manipulate natural phenomena through religion, science, philosophy and mythology. " - This phrase is inaccurate - religion does not actually explain nor manipulate natural phenomena, and in any case the parts of religion which were postulated in order to 'explain' things such as lighting would come under mythology. Therefore surely 'religion' is unnecessary in this sentence? Retsudo 20:15, 13 October 2006 (UTC)
Chernobyl disaster effects#Effect on the natural world
I'm proposing to include a section on the isue.The destruction of the environment i mean.If Chernobyll is beter now with radiation and no humans,than with humans and no radiation,then shurely the destruction of the environment deserves a section.-- Pixel ;-) 18:42, 26 October 2006 (UTC)
If you feel that way why are you still living? Your life is harming many animals. Deer populations rise when wolves are removed from the area. Humans just have a wide variety of "prey" so its not special and shouldent be in the article.
There are many thing wrong with the rest of the text. I fixed it by rewriting the first paragraph and removing the last. The text has an attitude of antihumanism, antiphilosophy, authoritarianism and nihilism. It prevents understading by derouting the subject with an overly complicated text, it suggests that philosophy is a futile hobby, where people think more than is necessairy and make things too complicated. It favors the dictated form of action where things are what they are and not to be questioned. It puts quantitative and qualitative, and observational and hypothetical in a line of better and worse and dispises speculative as a form of prejudice, which has nothing to do with reality. It suggests that hypothetical has only a speculative value. Please rewrite this. Teemu Ruskeepää 08:22, 29 October 2006 (UTC)
wtf are u talking about?!-- D-Gen 08:45, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
These two terms seem to be used interchangeably in the article, I think the most common usage is "developing country" as even highly developed countries can be relatively unindustrialized if they depend heavily on agriculture for industry. Can I standardise this as "developed/developing" in the article? TimVickers 16:18, 30 October 2006 (UTC)
As someone who enjoys Wikipedia, but is often rather critical of it, I just wanted to say this struck me as a very good article. Obviously, judging from the talk page here, people are still arguing about parts of it, and the article probably could indeed be improved, but I really think this is still a great example of what Wikipedia can be... I find it far better than a lot of the so-called "feature articles". So, congrats everybody. :) 69.175.141.106 15:59, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
Hi all,
I have promoted this article to good article status. Apart from the good ideas in the FARC nomination. Some other things you might want to look at:
Cedars 07:03, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
May I call a person a primate? A tetrapod? A reptile? 72.194.116.63 01:04, 25 March 2007 (UTC) Vahe Demirjian 17.03 24 March 2007
Hello,
Below is a reconstructed, exhaustive, scientific classification of human, that I have made solely by following links.
Taxon | Name |
---|---|
Domain | Eukaryota |
Kingdom | Animalia |
Subkingdom | Eumetazoa |
(unranked) (why?) | Bilateria |
Superphylum | Deuterostomia |
Phylum | Chordata |
(unranked) (why?) | Craniata |
Subphylum | Vertebrata |
Infraphylum | Gnathostomata |
Microphylum | Eugnathostomata |
(unranked) (why?) | Teleostomi |
Superclass | Osteichthyes |
Class | Sarcopterygii |
Subclass | Tetrapodomorpha |
Superclass (Yes, again) | Tetrapoda |
(unranked) (why?) | Amniota |
Class (yes, again) | Synapsida |
(unranked) (why?) | Mammaliaformes |
Class (yes, once again) | Mammalia |
Subclass | Theria |
Subclass (yes, again) | Eutheria |
Infraclass | Epitheria |
Superorder | Euarchontoglires |
Superorder (yes, again) | Euarchonta |
Order | Primates |
Suborder | Haplorrhin |
Parvorder | Catarrhini |
Superfamily | Hominoidea |
Family | Hominidae |
Subfamily | Homininae |
Tribe | Hominini |
Subtribe | Hominina |
Genus | Homo |
Species | Homo sapiens |
Subspecies | Homo sapiens sapiens |
As you can see, this is a bit inconsistent. Could someone tell me what is wrong? Some Wikipedia information are incorrect here, but which ones? Thank you.
David Latapie (
✒ |
@) 20:22, 3 December 2006 (UTC)
I just noticed that Wikinfo's human article is more neutral than Wikipedia's. — goethean ॐ 19:37, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
Various religious groups have raised objections and controversy concerning the theory of humanity's evolution from a common ancestor with the other hominoids. See creationism and argument from evolution for opposing points of view.