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The subsections of section 2 make it sound as if the subsequent deliberations of the Communion concerning the issue of homosexuality were prompted by the consecration of Bishop Robinson. This is untrue, as the content of the subsections indicate. I think that a general section dealing with the precipitating causes of these deliberations would be in order, with the Lambeth meetings and Windsor Report, etc. following in a subsequent section. Thoughts anyone? Fishhead64 17:37, 28 March 2006 (UTC)
This article should be updated with information about the recent primates' meeting in Tanzania and the ultimatum sent to the Episcopal Church USA, as discussed here and here. I'd do it myself, but I'm not entirely clear on the precise details of the communique, and it's important to be precise about these things. Anyone up to the challenge? — Josiah Rowe ( talk • contribs) 02:25, 28 February 2007 (UTC)
The nomination of this article for Anglicanism Collaboration of the Month for March was unsuccessful. The COTM is William Wilberforce. It has been automatically renominated for April. Thanks! Fishhead64 16:52, 1 March 2007 (UTC)
The introduction to this article seems far too long- nearly a whole page before the contents box. Shouldn't most of the discussion in the introduction be elsewhere? Epeeist smudge 10:17, 12 April 2007 (UTC)
A lot of the information in the "Stance of churches" section seems to come from http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/in_depth/3226753.stm. I'd rather this section be rewritten as regular prose paragraphs highlighting the contrasting views in a general way rather than a list of churches and what they may or may not have said officially. We can still provide a link to the BBC article for further reading or as a reference. — An gr 18:14, 12 April 2007 (UTC)
I am removing some statements that have been tagged "[citation needed]" for several months and for which I have not been able to find supporting sources:
Once sources for these statements are found, they can be reincorporated into the article. — Angr 19:01, 17 July 2007 (UTC)
References
{{
cite book}}
: |editor=
has generic name (
help)
If the following is not already spoken to in this article, can someone please incorporate it? It was removed from the lead of Christianity and homosexuality because it is too denomination specific.
Thanks! LCP 20:21, 17 September 2007 (UTC)
References
This seems rather important. A.Z. 04:49, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
Is there a serious reason why someone keeps removing the LGBT/Queer Studies box? It was taken out as "vandalism", which is really a wildly inappropriate accusation. I wasn't the one who put it in, but if there are no objections raised, I'll put it back in. Carolynparrishfan 19:14, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
The Statement regarding the Church in New Zealand is incorrect:
Official policy remains that of the Lambeth Conference (all homosexual activity is sin). The Maori and Pasifika tikanga are committed to this. Any participation leads to immediate summary withdrawals of any Bishop's licences, tantamount to immediate Excommunication.
Bishop's licences are granted to clergy, not laity, therefore withdrawing a license isn't excommunication. If a priest loses his/her license, he/she is "inhibited" from celebrating the sacraments. They cannot celebrate communion, marry or bury.
Excommunication means that someone cannot even receive the sacraments. These are entirely two different things. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.28.232.164 ( talk) 21:20, 15 January 2008 (UTC)
I also notice that Bishop Terry Brown of the Diocese of Malaita (Solomon Islands)of the Church of the Province of Melanesia isn't mentioned. He is openly gay and attended the 1998 Lambeth Conference long before Gene Robinson was consecrated.
See: [1]
[2] —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.28.232.164 ( talk) 21:28, 15 January 2008 (UTC)
Could someone in the know add a section in which the decisive arguments are specified; including any texts referred to, along with interpretation(s)? It is surprising, to say the least, that such a section is not already included. As it stands this article only lists a "summary of issues" followed by indications of who stands where; yet is without indication either as to why these are considered to be the 'issues', or why these are the stands taken.
WigglyWoggly ( talk) 06:53, 22 June 2008 (UTC)
Epicsopal bishops can bless gay unions. GLGermann ( talk) 09:57, 21 August 2009 (UTC)
Article contains no link to "Lambeth I.10" of 1998 - the resolution of the Communion which, at this last 10-yearly Lambeth convention, was clearly maintained as the mind of the Communion. It would seem that since the most important source document is not even mentioned, editors are explicitly dodging the bullet regarding the mind of the Communion on this matter, and trying to highlight those provinces dissenting with the rest of the communion, leaving a very skewed article indeed. Even though the resolution is not referenced, it is said that "it contained a line saying that this would not be the final word ..." or something like that - there IS no such line, or this is a very pointed re-interpretation - a "listening process" is indeed stipulated, but it is nowhere implied that the point of this listening process is for the eventual modification of the Communion's teaching regarding human sexuality. The point of the listening process is to better serve gay and lesbian people amongst us.
Lambeth resulutions ARE "binding" on all churches in the Anglican Communion - there simply is no legislative means of enforcing them. You would need to source this, and also beyond someone's mere opinion, since things have been exceedingly murkied with the activism taken on by a small vocal minority (The Episcopal Church and some other areas & organizations). I fear that this article's writers may be more acquainted with such activist sources and be missing the broader picture.
The article is also riddled with rather explosive language - e.g., Jeffrey John "succumbs," it is presupposed that those who objected to his consecration were "traditionalists," no evidence is given for the various churches cited that they allow same-sex blessings - the Church of Scotland makes clear that it does not explicitly permit such things, it simply has never had a resolution on the matter - inspiring someone to add it to this dubious list. In the long list of "minority groups" (note: language attempting marginalization of such groups), no evidence is given that they are minority groups, and in the case of Australia, very likely that this is a majority group (the Diocese of Sidney being so large, combined with whatever other groupings are there, may well represent a majority of the Church of Australia).
It's added that Jeffrey Johns became canon of a see which was the cite of England's first martyr (are we trying to implicitly associate martyrdom with him? Has anyone even hinted that the man should die? Do you know what martyrdom is?), and it's conveniently left out that Johns claims to be celibate, making his appointment to this post non-controversial if it is regarding his orientation alone - his views, on the other hand, which are not mentioned here, may have contributed to the controversy.
The "debates": Homosexual members of the church/communion: "may they exist?" Likely to prompt hatred amongst gays - has it ever been debated whether homosexual members may "exist" in any part of the Anglican Communion? This also plays into the fear of gays that they are "not allowed to exist" and church-bashing rhetoric that it refuses gays the "right to exist."
Likewise ordinations: the question has to do with ordination of people who engage in homosexual sex, and not people of homosexual orientation (who, if they remain celibate, may be ordained).
The article states at many points that the Anglican Communion is "diverse" or "widely diverse" but takes no account of the fact that Lambeth 2008 made exceedingly clear that Lambeth I.10 remains the "mind of the Communion."
It is claimed that Rowan Williams denounced bishops, when the sourced article only says that he denounced gay bashing in general, and his words were not explicitly aimed at bishops. This is blatant defamation of the Communion in stating that a denunciation of this stature has occurred.
I would encourage a complete re-write with more impartial writers and editors.
The issue of homosexuality in the Communion is a tough one. We do not want actively gay people to feel that it is MORE accepting of the position that gay Christians should be engaging in same-sex intercourse, more than is actually the case - because they could be in for major life disappointment. And we also do not wish to slander the Anglican Communion, no matter how low our own view of its teachings on human sexuality may be.
MORE regarding "the mind of the Communion
In December 2010 open lesbian anglican bishop Mary Douglas Glasspool was elcted in Los Angeles. 92.252.105.2 ( talk) 20:32, 29 March 2010 (UTC)
Reverend Mally Lloyd and the Reverend Katherine Ragsdale, two high-level Episcopal priests, married in Massachusetts on New Year’s Day 2011.
Gay clergy is in Church in Wales allowed. In 2011, Church in Wales gives pensions for gay partners of anglican clergy. The Church of England General Synod approved the change in 2010.
This article fails to go back before 1990, whereas the issue has been rattling around the CofE since the 1950s, and there were various crises over the years that informed the present situation: the response to decriminalisation in the 60s, the attitude of bishops then and since (Don't ask / don't tell). As a result this article is much less than encyclopedic and need a radical reworking. Ender's Shadow Snr ( talk) 10:30, 14 January 2013 (UTC)
Could somebody familiar with the issues update this part please? It is now after 2008.
(no WP account so posting as anon) 86.147.118.13 ( talk) 19:47, 9 October 2013 (UTC)
In 2013, Church of England plans blessing of gay couples.
188.96.190.196 ( talk) 02:20, 1 December 2013 (UTC)
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The subsections of section 2 make it sound as if the subsequent deliberations of the Communion concerning the issue of homosexuality were prompted by the consecration of Bishop Robinson. This is untrue, as the content of the subsections indicate. I think that a general section dealing with the precipitating causes of these deliberations would be in order, with the Lambeth meetings and Windsor Report, etc. following in a subsequent section. Thoughts anyone? Fishhead64 17:37, 28 March 2006 (UTC)
This article should be updated with information about the recent primates' meeting in Tanzania and the ultimatum sent to the Episcopal Church USA, as discussed here and here. I'd do it myself, but I'm not entirely clear on the precise details of the communique, and it's important to be precise about these things. Anyone up to the challenge? — Josiah Rowe ( talk • contribs) 02:25, 28 February 2007 (UTC)
The nomination of this article for Anglicanism Collaboration of the Month for March was unsuccessful. The COTM is William Wilberforce. It has been automatically renominated for April. Thanks! Fishhead64 16:52, 1 March 2007 (UTC)
The introduction to this article seems far too long- nearly a whole page before the contents box. Shouldn't most of the discussion in the introduction be elsewhere? Epeeist smudge 10:17, 12 April 2007 (UTC)
A lot of the information in the "Stance of churches" section seems to come from http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/in_depth/3226753.stm. I'd rather this section be rewritten as regular prose paragraphs highlighting the contrasting views in a general way rather than a list of churches and what they may or may not have said officially. We can still provide a link to the BBC article for further reading or as a reference. — An gr 18:14, 12 April 2007 (UTC)
I am removing some statements that have been tagged "[citation needed]" for several months and for which I have not been able to find supporting sources:
Once sources for these statements are found, they can be reincorporated into the article. — Angr 19:01, 17 July 2007 (UTC)
References
{{
cite book}}
: |editor=
has generic name (
help)
If the following is not already spoken to in this article, can someone please incorporate it? It was removed from the lead of Christianity and homosexuality because it is too denomination specific.
Thanks! LCP 20:21, 17 September 2007 (UTC)
References
This seems rather important. A.Z. 04:49, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
Is there a serious reason why someone keeps removing the LGBT/Queer Studies box? It was taken out as "vandalism", which is really a wildly inappropriate accusation. I wasn't the one who put it in, but if there are no objections raised, I'll put it back in. Carolynparrishfan 19:14, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
The Statement regarding the Church in New Zealand is incorrect:
Official policy remains that of the Lambeth Conference (all homosexual activity is sin). The Maori and Pasifika tikanga are committed to this. Any participation leads to immediate summary withdrawals of any Bishop's licences, tantamount to immediate Excommunication.
Bishop's licences are granted to clergy, not laity, therefore withdrawing a license isn't excommunication. If a priest loses his/her license, he/she is "inhibited" from celebrating the sacraments. They cannot celebrate communion, marry or bury.
Excommunication means that someone cannot even receive the sacraments. These are entirely two different things. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.28.232.164 ( talk) 21:20, 15 January 2008 (UTC)
I also notice that Bishop Terry Brown of the Diocese of Malaita (Solomon Islands)of the Church of the Province of Melanesia isn't mentioned. He is openly gay and attended the 1998 Lambeth Conference long before Gene Robinson was consecrated.
See: [1]
[2] —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.28.232.164 ( talk) 21:28, 15 January 2008 (UTC)
Could someone in the know add a section in which the decisive arguments are specified; including any texts referred to, along with interpretation(s)? It is surprising, to say the least, that such a section is not already included. As it stands this article only lists a "summary of issues" followed by indications of who stands where; yet is without indication either as to why these are considered to be the 'issues', or why these are the stands taken.
WigglyWoggly ( talk) 06:53, 22 June 2008 (UTC)
Epicsopal bishops can bless gay unions. GLGermann ( talk) 09:57, 21 August 2009 (UTC)
Article contains no link to "Lambeth I.10" of 1998 - the resolution of the Communion which, at this last 10-yearly Lambeth convention, was clearly maintained as the mind of the Communion. It would seem that since the most important source document is not even mentioned, editors are explicitly dodging the bullet regarding the mind of the Communion on this matter, and trying to highlight those provinces dissenting with the rest of the communion, leaving a very skewed article indeed. Even though the resolution is not referenced, it is said that "it contained a line saying that this would not be the final word ..." or something like that - there IS no such line, or this is a very pointed re-interpretation - a "listening process" is indeed stipulated, but it is nowhere implied that the point of this listening process is for the eventual modification of the Communion's teaching regarding human sexuality. The point of the listening process is to better serve gay and lesbian people amongst us.
Lambeth resulutions ARE "binding" on all churches in the Anglican Communion - there simply is no legislative means of enforcing them. You would need to source this, and also beyond someone's mere opinion, since things have been exceedingly murkied with the activism taken on by a small vocal minority (The Episcopal Church and some other areas & organizations). I fear that this article's writers may be more acquainted with such activist sources and be missing the broader picture.
The article is also riddled with rather explosive language - e.g., Jeffrey John "succumbs," it is presupposed that those who objected to his consecration were "traditionalists," no evidence is given for the various churches cited that they allow same-sex blessings - the Church of Scotland makes clear that it does not explicitly permit such things, it simply has never had a resolution on the matter - inspiring someone to add it to this dubious list. In the long list of "minority groups" (note: language attempting marginalization of such groups), no evidence is given that they are minority groups, and in the case of Australia, very likely that this is a majority group (the Diocese of Sidney being so large, combined with whatever other groupings are there, may well represent a majority of the Church of Australia).
It's added that Jeffrey Johns became canon of a see which was the cite of England's first martyr (are we trying to implicitly associate martyrdom with him? Has anyone even hinted that the man should die? Do you know what martyrdom is?), and it's conveniently left out that Johns claims to be celibate, making his appointment to this post non-controversial if it is regarding his orientation alone - his views, on the other hand, which are not mentioned here, may have contributed to the controversy.
The "debates": Homosexual members of the church/communion: "may they exist?" Likely to prompt hatred amongst gays - has it ever been debated whether homosexual members may "exist" in any part of the Anglican Communion? This also plays into the fear of gays that they are "not allowed to exist" and church-bashing rhetoric that it refuses gays the "right to exist."
Likewise ordinations: the question has to do with ordination of people who engage in homosexual sex, and not people of homosexual orientation (who, if they remain celibate, may be ordained).
The article states at many points that the Anglican Communion is "diverse" or "widely diverse" but takes no account of the fact that Lambeth 2008 made exceedingly clear that Lambeth I.10 remains the "mind of the Communion."
It is claimed that Rowan Williams denounced bishops, when the sourced article only says that he denounced gay bashing in general, and his words were not explicitly aimed at bishops. This is blatant defamation of the Communion in stating that a denunciation of this stature has occurred.
I would encourage a complete re-write with more impartial writers and editors.
The issue of homosexuality in the Communion is a tough one. We do not want actively gay people to feel that it is MORE accepting of the position that gay Christians should be engaging in same-sex intercourse, more than is actually the case - because they could be in for major life disappointment. And we also do not wish to slander the Anglican Communion, no matter how low our own view of its teachings on human sexuality may be.
MORE regarding "the mind of the Communion
In December 2010 open lesbian anglican bishop Mary Douglas Glasspool was elcted in Los Angeles. 92.252.105.2 ( talk) 20:32, 29 March 2010 (UTC)
Reverend Mally Lloyd and the Reverend Katherine Ragsdale, two high-level Episcopal priests, married in Massachusetts on New Year’s Day 2011.
Gay clergy is in Church in Wales allowed. In 2011, Church in Wales gives pensions for gay partners of anglican clergy. The Church of England General Synod approved the change in 2010.
This article fails to go back before 1990, whereas the issue has been rattling around the CofE since the 1950s, and there were various crises over the years that informed the present situation: the response to decriminalisation in the 60s, the attitude of bishops then and since (Don't ask / don't tell). As a result this article is much less than encyclopedic and need a radical reworking. Ender's Shadow Snr ( talk) 10:30, 14 January 2013 (UTC)
Could somebody familiar with the issues update this part please? It is now after 2008.
(no WP account so posting as anon) 86.147.118.13 ( talk) 19:47, 9 October 2013 (UTC)
In 2013, Church of England plans blessing of gay couples.
188.96.190.196 ( talk) 02:20, 1 December 2013 (UTC)
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