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Archive 1 | Archive 2 |
Ginkgo biloba extract in the treatment of tinnitus: a systematic review: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3157487/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.61.46.106 ( talk) 05:31, 3 September 2018 (UTC)
The article says Ginkgo Biloba is native to Southern Japan? I thought it was native only to China? Several sources e.g. "Ginkgo, The Tree That Time Forgot" by Peter Crane, Cor Kwant's website say that it is thought that the only wild Ginkgos are located in Sichuan and Zhejiang provinces. Redswordofheroes ( talk) 01:13, 10 October 2018 (UTC)
From reading this article about Ginkgo Biloba as an herbal supplement you come to a strong conclusion that it's completely inert as a supplement. However, a study does exist that explains its efficacy specifically in regards to dementia. This, at minimum explains some of the "effects" that people have observed with Ginkgo biloba and why it is not a universal experience. Perhaps someone shall make the argument that "this article's current wording is sufficient" because it says there are not any effects in "healthy people". But okay, that almost sounds like FDA-mandated phrasing. This is not the FDA nor should Wikipedia be regulated by the FDA. Wikipedia should give a scientific perspective on matters. Ginkgo Biloba has been shown to improve cognitive impairments in genetically-specific dementia mice. Ginkgo Biloba is an active GABA partial agonist and from this very fact it is known to interact with certain medications to induce seizures! This is far from inert and as I said the current wording implies that it's inert. (Seizure-interaction evidence not included in this post.) "Age-related effects of Ginkgo biloba extract on synaptic plasticity and excitability" https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0197458003002379 Mbman8 ( talk) 20:17, 14 February 2019 (UTC)
I keep seeing this all over Wikipedia:
"The genus name Ginkgo is regarded as a misspelling of the Japanese gin kyo, "silver apricot", which is derived from the Chinese (銀杏) used in..."
Not understanding Chinese characters, like most people in the world, that might as well read "from the Chinese %&*#" or "the Chinese ______" or "####". It means nothing to me. It is certainly good to include the characters, in case someone is interested to see them, but what most people what is the WORD, what it sounds like, so they can compare it with the Japanese (which IS provided phonetically, as it should be). Characters are absolultely meaningless except to people who read Chinese. Sorry to sound snappy, but I keep seeing this done and it drives me nuts. It is especially common with Greek. They give you the English, the German and Latin words, all clearly phonetically related...very interesting...."originally derived from the Greek (meaningless series of characters)". I want to know what the word sounds like, to see what the word looked like written in Greek (include that TOO if you like, but give the actual word). Related is the practice of giving 80% of pronunciations in this new "international" phonetic characters which mean nothing to me or most people that I know. Maybe that's the way of the future, great, but for now perhaps we can continue to provide a simple Latin alphabet pronunciation the way it was always done in every dictionary when I was younger. It doesn't help anyone if they can't read it, and it's not very welcoming to just tell them to "go learn to read international characters then". It would be far easier just to provide them both. But I'm off topic now, sorry.
Idumea47b ( talk) 23:01, 30 January 2020 (UTC)
There's conflicting information between the lede and the sidebar about how old ginkgo biloba is as a species. Is the "270 million years" statement intended to refer to the genus? 72.68.108.107 ( talk) 16:41, 24 August 2020 (UTC)
OK then, more material to include:
"THURSDAY, Oct. 9 (HealthDay News) -- A study with genetically engineered mice found that an extract from the leaves of the ginkgo tree can prevent or reduce brain damage from a stroke."
<ref>{{cite web | first = Ed | last = Edelson | title = Ginkgo Prevented Stroke Damage in Mice | url = http://health.usnews.com/articles/health/healthday/2008/10/09/ginkgo-prevented-stroke-damage-in-mice.html | work = U.S. News & World Report | date = [[2008-10-09]] | accessdate = 2008-10-09 }}</ref> — Preceding unsigned comment added by 119.95.107.215 ( talk • contribs) 04:44, 15 October 2008 (UTC)
http://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(02)09821-5/fulltext — Preceding unsigned comment added by Abhijeet Safai ( talk • contribs) 13:05, 28 June 2013 (UTC)
http://www.thelancet.com/journals/laneur/article/PIIS1474-4422(12)70206-5/abstract — Preceding unsigned comment added by Abhijeet Safai ( talk • contribs) 13:05, 28 June 2013 (UTC)
Nowadays ginkyo is not a popular reading in Japan; ichô or ginnan sounds better. -- Anon — Preceding unsigned comment added by 218.227.80.230 ( talk • contribs) 18:22, 24 June 2003 (UTC)
I have never edited medical info on English Wikipedia so am not confident changing this myself.
But the mention of aspirin seems to be contradicted by a randomized controlled trial if I understood right https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5966631/ Chidgk1 ( talk) 17:35, 2 July 2021 (UTC)
@ Zefr: I reverted your recent edit for two reasons. First, it removed cited information that is pertinent to the article. Ginkgo biloba's use as a traditional medicine has a history spanning 10 centuries. This history is notable and should be discussed in the article (without making any unfounded medical claims, per Wikipedia:MEDRS). Second, the wording you replaced it with is not accurate. "There is no scientific evidence that ginkgo is helpful for treating any disease" isn't true. There is weak or inconclusive evidence that ginkgo is helpful for treating several diseases as discussed in the medical research section. That's why it originally said "There is no conclusive evidence", which is more accurate. If you have concerns with the wording, perhaps it could be adjusted. Let me know if you have some suggestions. Nosferattus ( talk) 15:33, 12 August 2021 (UTC)
@
Cerebral726: You removed the sentence...
Ginkgo biloba has been shown to affect
vascular permeability and neuronal
metabolism.
... with the explanation "cited source is about tinnitus and does not seem to show the stated evidence." Yet the article cited says...
Changes in vascular perfusion and neuronal metabolism are well‐documented effects of Ginkgo biloba in animal and human studies... Ginkgo has been shown to affect vascular permeability and neuronal metabolism.
(Tinnitus is directly related to vascular disease.) Can you please explain why you don't believe the cited source reflects the sentence that I added? Or perhaps you just overlooked the relevant material?
Nosferattus (
talk) 14:09, 3 September 2021 (UTC)
1. This is not an in vivo study of brain glucose metabolism, but rather a study using metabolic markers in brain slices; this is the in vivo method for assessing brain glucose metabolism in vivo; 2) not studied, no reference for the statement, off-topic for the review; suggest Nosferattus observe WP:DEADHORSE; 3) "weak evidence" does not lead to an approved therapy - it is preliminary, unconvincing research not worth mentioning. Nosferattus seems to have difficulty understanding MEDRS: a) there is no WP:WEIGHT in the medical literature for using gingko for any disease, WP:MEDREV; b) there is no scientific consensus, clinical organization, or regulatory agency approving gingko as a prescription drug, WP:MEDSCI; c) there is no high-quality evidence that gingko has any health effect, WP:MEDASSESS, left pyramid. Please take the time to familiarize yourself with these guidelines on choosing sources for medical content in Wikipedia. The user challenging the existing content has the burden of providing a reliable source to support a change, WP:BURDEN. Zefr ( talk) 21:13, 3 September 2021 (UTC)
It's worth pointing out that the source cited is from Cochrane Library: "Wikipedia and Cochrane collaborate to increase the incorporation of Cochrane research into Wikipedia articles and provide Wikipedia editors with resources for interpreting medical data." Pyrrho the Skeptic ( talk) 20:14, 3 September 2021 (UTC)
If the sentence is included, it should not be the first in the section, which gives it undue importance and creates a false impression of the medical value of gingko. Peter coxhead ( talk) 07:13, 4 September 2021 (UTC)
pushing the fringe POV that plants cannot have medical effects or uses, which they have not one anywhere in the above discussion. Please rein that stuff in, and keep this discussion focussed on content.
Should the following sentence be included somewhere in the article:
Ginkgo biloba has been shown to affect
vascular permeability and neuronal
metabolism.
cited to Hilton, MP; Zimmermann, EF; Hunt, WT (28 March 2013). "Ginkgo biloba for tinnitus". Cochrane Database of Systematic Reviews (Systematic review). 3 (3): CD003852.
doi:
10.1002/14651858.CD003852.pub3.
PMID
23543524., which states:
"Changes in vascular perfusion and neuronal metabolism are well‐documented effects of Ginkgo biloba in animal and human studies... Ginkgo has been shown to affect vascular permeability and neuronal metabolism."
I am requesting that all editors canvassed here by Zefr recuse themselves so as not to violate WP:VOTESTACKING. If you have an opinion about where in the article the sentence should appear, please include that in your response. Nosferattus ( talk) 15:54, 6 September 2021 (UTC)
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4518124/ The Iranian Journal of Pharmaceutical Research published experimental results. Ginko Biloba was shown to be the most effective of the 15 herbs in the experiment to inhibit urease enzyme activity. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 146.168.174.205 ( talk) 14:49, 11 October 2021 (UTC)
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 11 January 2021 and 7 April 2021. Further details are available
on the course page. Student editor(s):
AzureaJT.
Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT ( talk) 22:24, 16 January 2022 (UTC)
The statement that ginkgo extracts may have "adverse effects...on the dosing of anticoagulants" is confusing and redundant. The previous sentence already says "adversely affecting". What are the affects? Synergistic, antagonistic, or other? And presumably it affects dosage not (or in addition to) "dosing"; the latter implies that the timing or route of administration is changed. I will put this on my to do list. -- D Anthony Patriarche ( talk) 14:39, 24 June 2022 (UTC)
This is such a distinct product that it merits its own page. This is mostly a modern invention, with its own history. Drsruli ( talk) 22:58, 23 November 2022 (UTC)
This would not be difficult; it is THE standardized Ginkgo extract. (There is one other somewhat stronger one that is rarely encountered.) This is the extract of the studies. Drsruli ( talk) 04:57, 24 November 2022 (UTC)
Shouldn't the Etymology section appear after the main Description section. Appearing first as it does seems to give it undue prominence? Cicero UK ( talk) 21:34, 4 April 2023 (UTC)
This section is self-contradictory. If no one objects, I will update it to reflect the true age of the tree (~500yrs), but also reference the legend that the tree has stood there for a thousand years. Riposte97 ( talk) 06:14, 7 October 2023 (UTC)
A reference would be nice to some of these 300 surveys; also: is ginkgo supposed to be a vasodilator? That's what the description sounds like. If so, the list of claimed benefits could perhaps be listed as claimed benefits of taking vasodilators every day. Also, have the effects of long-term use been studied? I know long term us of vasoconstrictors and coagulants such as nicotine can be very harmful. -- Andrew 17:42, May 2, 2004 (UTC)
if it "increases blood flow" but may cause headaches, is this simply a way of saying that it is a vasodialator? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tim Starling ( talk • contribs) 29 July 2004 (UTC)
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 |
Ginkgo biloba extract in the treatment of tinnitus: a systematic review: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3157487/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.61.46.106 ( talk) 05:31, 3 September 2018 (UTC)
The article says Ginkgo Biloba is native to Southern Japan? I thought it was native only to China? Several sources e.g. "Ginkgo, The Tree That Time Forgot" by Peter Crane, Cor Kwant's website say that it is thought that the only wild Ginkgos are located in Sichuan and Zhejiang provinces. Redswordofheroes ( talk) 01:13, 10 October 2018 (UTC)
From reading this article about Ginkgo Biloba as an herbal supplement you come to a strong conclusion that it's completely inert as a supplement. However, a study does exist that explains its efficacy specifically in regards to dementia. This, at minimum explains some of the "effects" that people have observed with Ginkgo biloba and why it is not a universal experience. Perhaps someone shall make the argument that "this article's current wording is sufficient" because it says there are not any effects in "healthy people". But okay, that almost sounds like FDA-mandated phrasing. This is not the FDA nor should Wikipedia be regulated by the FDA. Wikipedia should give a scientific perspective on matters. Ginkgo Biloba has been shown to improve cognitive impairments in genetically-specific dementia mice. Ginkgo Biloba is an active GABA partial agonist and from this very fact it is known to interact with certain medications to induce seizures! This is far from inert and as I said the current wording implies that it's inert. (Seizure-interaction evidence not included in this post.) "Age-related effects of Ginkgo biloba extract on synaptic plasticity and excitability" https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0197458003002379 Mbman8 ( talk) 20:17, 14 February 2019 (UTC)
I keep seeing this all over Wikipedia:
"The genus name Ginkgo is regarded as a misspelling of the Japanese gin kyo, "silver apricot", which is derived from the Chinese (銀杏) used in..."
Not understanding Chinese characters, like most people in the world, that might as well read "from the Chinese %&*#" or "the Chinese ______" or "####". It means nothing to me. It is certainly good to include the characters, in case someone is interested to see them, but what most people what is the WORD, what it sounds like, so they can compare it with the Japanese (which IS provided phonetically, as it should be). Characters are absolultely meaningless except to people who read Chinese. Sorry to sound snappy, but I keep seeing this done and it drives me nuts. It is especially common with Greek. They give you the English, the German and Latin words, all clearly phonetically related...very interesting...."originally derived from the Greek (meaningless series of characters)". I want to know what the word sounds like, to see what the word looked like written in Greek (include that TOO if you like, but give the actual word). Related is the practice of giving 80% of pronunciations in this new "international" phonetic characters which mean nothing to me or most people that I know. Maybe that's the way of the future, great, but for now perhaps we can continue to provide a simple Latin alphabet pronunciation the way it was always done in every dictionary when I was younger. It doesn't help anyone if they can't read it, and it's not very welcoming to just tell them to "go learn to read international characters then". It would be far easier just to provide them both. But I'm off topic now, sorry.
Idumea47b ( talk) 23:01, 30 January 2020 (UTC)
There's conflicting information between the lede and the sidebar about how old ginkgo biloba is as a species. Is the "270 million years" statement intended to refer to the genus? 72.68.108.107 ( talk) 16:41, 24 August 2020 (UTC)
OK then, more material to include:
"THURSDAY, Oct. 9 (HealthDay News) -- A study with genetically engineered mice found that an extract from the leaves of the ginkgo tree can prevent or reduce brain damage from a stroke."
<ref>{{cite web | first = Ed | last = Edelson | title = Ginkgo Prevented Stroke Damage in Mice | url = http://health.usnews.com/articles/health/healthday/2008/10/09/ginkgo-prevented-stroke-damage-in-mice.html | work = U.S. News & World Report | date = [[2008-10-09]] | accessdate = 2008-10-09 }}</ref> — Preceding unsigned comment added by 119.95.107.215 ( talk • contribs) 04:44, 15 October 2008 (UTC)
http://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(02)09821-5/fulltext — Preceding unsigned comment added by Abhijeet Safai ( talk • contribs) 13:05, 28 June 2013 (UTC)
http://www.thelancet.com/journals/laneur/article/PIIS1474-4422(12)70206-5/abstract — Preceding unsigned comment added by Abhijeet Safai ( talk • contribs) 13:05, 28 June 2013 (UTC)
Nowadays ginkyo is not a popular reading in Japan; ichô or ginnan sounds better. -- Anon — Preceding unsigned comment added by 218.227.80.230 ( talk • contribs) 18:22, 24 June 2003 (UTC)
I have never edited medical info on English Wikipedia so am not confident changing this myself.
But the mention of aspirin seems to be contradicted by a randomized controlled trial if I understood right https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5966631/ Chidgk1 ( talk) 17:35, 2 July 2021 (UTC)
@ Zefr: I reverted your recent edit for two reasons. First, it removed cited information that is pertinent to the article. Ginkgo biloba's use as a traditional medicine has a history spanning 10 centuries. This history is notable and should be discussed in the article (without making any unfounded medical claims, per Wikipedia:MEDRS). Second, the wording you replaced it with is not accurate. "There is no scientific evidence that ginkgo is helpful for treating any disease" isn't true. There is weak or inconclusive evidence that ginkgo is helpful for treating several diseases as discussed in the medical research section. That's why it originally said "There is no conclusive evidence", which is more accurate. If you have concerns with the wording, perhaps it could be adjusted. Let me know if you have some suggestions. Nosferattus ( talk) 15:33, 12 August 2021 (UTC)
@
Cerebral726: You removed the sentence...
Ginkgo biloba has been shown to affect
vascular permeability and neuronal
metabolism.
... with the explanation "cited source is about tinnitus and does not seem to show the stated evidence." Yet the article cited says...
Changes in vascular perfusion and neuronal metabolism are well‐documented effects of Ginkgo biloba in animal and human studies... Ginkgo has been shown to affect vascular permeability and neuronal metabolism.
(Tinnitus is directly related to vascular disease.) Can you please explain why you don't believe the cited source reflects the sentence that I added? Or perhaps you just overlooked the relevant material?
Nosferattus (
talk) 14:09, 3 September 2021 (UTC)
1. This is not an in vivo study of brain glucose metabolism, but rather a study using metabolic markers in brain slices; this is the in vivo method for assessing brain glucose metabolism in vivo; 2) not studied, no reference for the statement, off-topic for the review; suggest Nosferattus observe WP:DEADHORSE; 3) "weak evidence" does not lead to an approved therapy - it is preliminary, unconvincing research not worth mentioning. Nosferattus seems to have difficulty understanding MEDRS: a) there is no WP:WEIGHT in the medical literature for using gingko for any disease, WP:MEDREV; b) there is no scientific consensus, clinical organization, or regulatory agency approving gingko as a prescription drug, WP:MEDSCI; c) there is no high-quality evidence that gingko has any health effect, WP:MEDASSESS, left pyramid. Please take the time to familiarize yourself with these guidelines on choosing sources for medical content in Wikipedia. The user challenging the existing content has the burden of providing a reliable source to support a change, WP:BURDEN. Zefr ( talk) 21:13, 3 September 2021 (UTC)
It's worth pointing out that the source cited is from Cochrane Library: "Wikipedia and Cochrane collaborate to increase the incorporation of Cochrane research into Wikipedia articles and provide Wikipedia editors with resources for interpreting medical data." Pyrrho the Skeptic ( talk) 20:14, 3 September 2021 (UTC)
If the sentence is included, it should not be the first in the section, which gives it undue importance and creates a false impression of the medical value of gingko. Peter coxhead ( talk) 07:13, 4 September 2021 (UTC)
pushing the fringe POV that plants cannot have medical effects or uses, which they have not one anywhere in the above discussion. Please rein that stuff in, and keep this discussion focussed on content.
Should the following sentence be included somewhere in the article:
Ginkgo biloba has been shown to affect
vascular permeability and neuronal
metabolism.
cited to Hilton, MP; Zimmermann, EF; Hunt, WT (28 March 2013). "Ginkgo biloba for tinnitus". Cochrane Database of Systematic Reviews (Systematic review). 3 (3): CD003852.
doi:
10.1002/14651858.CD003852.pub3.
PMID
23543524., which states:
"Changes in vascular perfusion and neuronal metabolism are well‐documented effects of Ginkgo biloba in animal and human studies... Ginkgo has been shown to affect vascular permeability and neuronal metabolism."
I am requesting that all editors canvassed here by Zefr recuse themselves so as not to violate WP:VOTESTACKING. If you have an opinion about where in the article the sentence should appear, please include that in your response. Nosferattus ( talk) 15:54, 6 September 2021 (UTC)
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4518124/ The Iranian Journal of Pharmaceutical Research published experimental results. Ginko Biloba was shown to be the most effective of the 15 herbs in the experiment to inhibit urease enzyme activity. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 146.168.174.205 ( talk) 14:49, 11 October 2021 (UTC)
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 11 January 2021 and 7 April 2021. Further details are available
on the course page. Student editor(s):
AzureaJT.
Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT ( talk) 22:24, 16 January 2022 (UTC)
The statement that ginkgo extracts may have "adverse effects...on the dosing of anticoagulants" is confusing and redundant. The previous sentence already says "adversely affecting". What are the affects? Synergistic, antagonistic, or other? And presumably it affects dosage not (or in addition to) "dosing"; the latter implies that the timing or route of administration is changed. I will put this on my to do list. -- D Anthony Patriarche ( talk) 14:39, 24 June 2022 (UTC)
This is such a distinct product that it merits its own page. This is mostly a modern invention, with its own history. Drsruli ( talk) 22:58, 23 November 2022 (UTC)
This would not be difficult; it is THE standardized Ginkgo extract. (There is one other somewhat stronger one that is rarely encountered.) This is the extract of the studies. Drsruli ( talk) 04:57, 24 November 2022 (UTC)
Shouldn't the Etymology section appear after the main Description section. Appearing first as it does seems to give it undue prominence? Cicero UK ( talk) 21:34, 4 April 2023 (UTC)
This section is self-contradictory. If no one objects, I will update it to reflect the true age of the tree (~500yrs), but also reference the legend that the tree has stood there for a thousand years. Riposte97 ( talk) 06:14, 7 October 2023 (UTC)
A reference would be nice to some of these 300 surveys; also: is ginkgo supposed to be a vasodilator? That's what the description sounds like. If so, the list of claimed benefits could perhaps be listed as claimed benefits of taking vasodilators every day. Also, have the effects of long-term use been studied? I know long term us of vasoconstrictors and coagulants such as nicotine can be very harmful. -- Andrew 17:42, May 2, 2004 (UTC)
if it "increases blood flow" but may cause headaches, is this simply a way of saying that it is a vasodialator? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tim Starling ( talk • contribs) 29 July 2004 (UTC)