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The following discussion is an archived discussion of a
requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a
move review. No further edits should be made to this section.
Oppose. Highly unlikely there aren't loads more songs called "Fortune" - whether on WP or not, at least the present title identifies whose fortune it is. Rather than moving, a little care and consideration to whether this song is notable to actually have an article and whether there are any references might be a better idea. --
Richhoncho (
talk)
09:51, 3 February 2013 (UTC)reply
Support. The least restrictive disambiguation parenthetical should be used according to standard Wikipedia convention. If there is no other Wikipedia article on a song titled "Fortune", then it should be moved.
Rreagan007 (
talk)
05:42, 5 February 2013 (UTC)reply
Not exactly. It's a redirect. Adding it to
Fortuneas you did doesn't abide by
MOS:DAB. I've never heard of Nami Tamaki and I love Great Big Sea, but there's no indicate their "Fortune" was a single or can reasonably be expected to ever have a standalone article. --
BDD (
talk)
02:36, 21 February 2013 (UTC)reply
I did add it to Fortune, true. But your "not exactly" reply to "
Fortune (Great Big Sea song) exists" is wrong;
Fortune (Great Big Sea song) exists (and was created by someone else), and is a valid redirect. In the absence of the Nami Tamaki song,
Fortune (song) could redirect to
Sea of No Cares. Since there are two songs on Wikipedia called "Fortune", the additional qualification is needed, per
WP:NCM, exactly. Your claim that my addition of it to the disambiguation page doesn't abide by
MOS:DAB is also wrong; see
WP:DABREDIR. I've never heard of Nami Tamaki or Great Big Sea, but my ignorance of music doesn't affect the naming conventions (which don't include a restriction to stand-alone articles). --
JHunterJ (
talk)
02:53, 21 February 2013 (UTC)reply
My problem with the redirect is that it gives readers little to nothing. If you already know enough to type in "Fortune (Great Big Sea song)" in a search box, maybe you learn the album it was on, though it's likely you knew that already. What you've done is fine with the vague wording of
WP:NCM, but I'd think that needs to be subordinate to
WP:DAB, "when a single term... refers to more than one topic covered by Wikipedia articles." The GBS song isn't a redlink, but it's not an article either. Again, if this were a single and likely to have an article at some point, I could live with this. But disambiguating against terms that are only redirects betrays guidelines like
WP:NC by making it more difficult to find articles. --
BDD (
talk)
16:09, 21 February 2013 (UTC)reply
Support. This is the only song named "Fortune" that has an article, and the only one that will ever have one. No need to give our readers the runaround. If necessary, the Great Big Sea song (or album) can be linked through a hat note.--
Cúchullaint/
c13:19, 25 February 2013 (UTC)reply
Support There is another song named Fortune with sufficient notability to be mentioned in a WP article and have a redirect,
Fortune (Great Big Sea song). However I think the principle of
WP:TWODABS applies here, and, since only one of these songs actually has an actual article (this one), it should be the one with the hatnote to the
Sea of No Cares. There is no benefit or policy based reason to redirect
Fortune (song) to the music subsection of the
Fortune dab page instead of moving this article there and having a hatnote link to the only other song named Fortune even referenced on WP. If there are more songs named Fortune sufficiently notable to be on WP, that changes everything. --
B2
C20:24, 25 February 2013 (UTC)reply
Not that I really need to be arguing with you, but there's no such thing as "sufficient notability to be mentioned in a WP article"; see
WP:NNC. The existence of a redirect for the GBS song tells us nothing about its notability. If it had previously been an article, the issue might be different. --
BDD (
talk)
20:50, 25 February 2013 (UTC)reply
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a
requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a
move review. No further edits should be made to this section.
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Songs, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
songs on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.SongsWikipedia:WikiProject SongsTemplate:WikiProject Songssong articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Japan, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Japan-related articles on Wikipedia. If you would like to
participate, please visit the
project page, where you can join the project, participate in
relevant discussions, and see
lists of open tasks. Current time in Japan: 03:55, July 23, 2024 (
JST,
Reiwa 6) (Refresh)JapanWikipedia:WikiProject JapanTemplate:WikiProject JapanJapan-related articles
The following discussion is an archived discussion of a
requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a
move review. No further edits should be made to this section.
Oppose. Highly unlikely there aren't loads more songs called "Fortune" - whether on WP or not, at least the present title identifies whose fortune it is. Rather than moving, a little care and consideration to whether this song is notable to actually have an article and whether there are any references might be a better idea. --
Richhoncho (
talk)
09:51, 3 February 2013 (UTC)reply
Support. The least restrictive disambiguation parenthetical should be used according to standard Wikipedia convention. If there is no other Wikipedia article on a song titled "Fortune", then it should be moved.
Rreagan007 (
talk)
05:42, 5 February 2013 (UTC)reply
Not exactly. It's a redirect. Adding it to
Fortuneas you did doesn't abide by
MOS:DAB. I've never heard of Nami Tamaki and I love Great Big Sea, but there's no indicate their "Fortune" was a single or can reasonably be expected to ever have a standalone article. --
BDD (
talk)
02:36, 21 February 2013 (UTC)reply
I did add it to Fortune, true. But your "not exactly" reply to "
Fortune (Great Big Sea song) exists" is wrong;
Fortune (Great Big Sea song) exists (and was created by someone else), and is a valid redirect. In the absence of the Nami Tamaki song,
Fortune (song) could redirect to
Sea of No Cares. Since there are two songs on Wikipedia called "Fortune", the additional qualification is needed, per
WP:NCM, exactly. Your claim that my addition of it to the disambiguation page doesn't abide by
MOS:DAB is also wrong; see
WP:DABREDIR. I've never heard of Nami Tamaki or Great Big Sea, but my ignorance of music doesn't affect the naming conventions (which don't include a restriction to stand-alone articles). --
JHunterJ (
talk)
02:53, 21 February 2013 (UTC)reply
My problem with the redirect is that it gives readers little to nothing. If you already know enough to type in "Fortune (Great Big Sea song)" in a search box, maybe you learn the album it was on, though it's likely you knew that already. What you've done is fine with the vague wording of
WP:NCM, but I'd think that needs to be subordinate to
WP:DAB, "when a single term... refers to more than one topic covered by Wikipedia articles." The GBS song isn't a redlink, but it's not an article either. Again, if this were a single and likely to have an article at some point, I could live with this. But disambiguating against terms that are only redirects betrays guidelines like
WP:NC by making it more difficult to find articles. --
BDD (
talk)
16:09, 21 February 2013 (UTC)reply
Support. This is the only song named "Fortune" that has an article, and the only one that will ever have one. No need to give our readers the runaround. If necessary, the Great Big Sea song (or album) can be linked through a hat note.--
Cúchullaint/
c13:19, 25 February 2013 (UTC)reply
Support There is another song named Fortune with sufficient notability to be mentioned in a WP article and have a redirect,
Fortune (Great Big Sea song). However I think the principle of
WP:TWODABS applies here, and, since only one of these songs actually has an actual article (this one), it should be the one with the hatnote to the
Sea of No Cares. There is no benefit or policy based reason to redirect
Fortune (song) to the music subsection of the
Fortune dab page instead of moving this article there and having a hatnote link to the only other song named Fortune even referenced on WP. If there are more songs named Fortune sufficiently notable to be on WP, that changes everything. --
B2
C20:24, 25 February 2013 (UTC)reply
Not that I really need to be arguing with you, but there's no such thing as "sufficient notability to be mentioned in a WP article"; see
WP:NNC. The existence of a redirect for the GBS song tells us nothing about its notability. If it had previously been an article, the issue might be different. --
BDD (
talk)
20:50, 25 February 2013 (UTC)reply
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a
requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a
move review. No further edits should be made to this section.