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Absolutely true. This nasty term is used to tar the non-custodial parent. An estimated 500,000+ are in prison today for the crime of not having enough money to pay their child support. That is a debtor's prison. One of the ironies is that some of the worst non-paying non-custodial parents are mothers. A case-by-case analysis generally discovers that the NCP has lost his/her job, become ill, or otherwise limited in their abilty to earn money. Family Law Judges then "impute" their prior income to the NCP, who cannot pay, and an arrearage mounts until an enforcement action is taken. One of the most famous of these actions was last year in NJ, when Monmouth County jailed Wilbur Street. Street had developed ALS and was confined to a wheelchair. On the second day of his incarceration for a child support arrearage, Street died of ALS.
For more -- The Deadbeat Dad Myth: Strategies and Research in Defense of Men in Divorce. Bender, W.N., and Beneder, R.L. University of Georgia Press, 1990.
"But, like any other past-due debt, the obligee, typically a mother, may forgive what is owed to her."
It has always been my understanding that child support was owed to the child rather than the parent. I don't have a citation for this, but does anyone have anything that backs up the claim that the obligee is the child's guardian? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 172.191.163.177 ( talk • contribs)
I agree that this article is biased. I does not explore reasoning as to why parents do and dont pay. Also the exploration of issues related to bias within child support agencies.
This section is biased. I agree that "deadbeat dads" or "moms" for that matter is an inflammatory term, but I disagree that most parents don't pay because they can't afford it. It may be the case in some areas (states) but many places (and there are places outside the US) have systems where child support is calculated based on the non-custodial parent's income and expenses. Please edit this section!!
Your opinion of why a non-custodial parent does not make child support payments is irrelevant. What matters are the facts, and not opinions in this matter. This is a well researched area, and while there are always exceptions, most of the non-payers cannot pay for one or more reasons, including being in jail. Cia123454321 15:06, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
This point is factually indisputable.
Louisiana reported that 70% of all arrears are owed by parents making less than $10,000/year. citation needed
What does matter is facts. It is indisputable that orders are being made that exceed parents ability to pay. citation needed
According to this article California reports that 71% of the orders are by default. Just another example of deadbeat parents not caring for their children to even go to the court, instead they choose to hide. Individuals hide themselves, money and revenue to not pay childsupport. That 70% figure represents what Louisiana's governments say, but no one can verify that number. Deadbeat parent is really a two fold term. One does not pay and second does not care about their children. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.65.149.55 ( talk) 15:16, 21 October 2013 (UTC)
Regarding whether or not parents who don't pay can afford to.... It does not make sense to me to assume that parents would prefer incarceration over paying reasonably for the support of their children. Even if they were disinterested in their children's welfare, selfish motivation suggests they'd be better off outside of prison than in.
Low income obligees not only have insufficient income to pay support, they have insufficient income to hire good lawyers to protect (or often, even help them understand) their rights. Most states with the Income Shares CS model do allow for a Self Support Reserve for the non-custodial parent, an amount that get's sheltered from potential assignment to support, but it's usually set at or below the Federal Poverty level.
Higher income obligees that wind up in jail for non-support must either be idiots, not truly high income, or victims of a broken system. I find it hard to believe that the majority of them prefer jail to living in a 1500 sq ft Ranch rather than a 2500 sq ft Colonial.
129.33.1.37 19:55, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
Fox News quotes do not reliable sources make, so I've deleted this: "According to Fox News: Non-payment of child support is a significant problem in the United States. According to the Federal Office of Child Support, in 2003, $96 billion in accumulated unpaid support was due to children in the United States; 68 percent of child support cases were in arrears. An overwhelming majority of children, particularly minorities, living in single-parent homes where child support is not paid live in poverty." Unless the author can locate and cite the source Fox News quotes, it has no place here. Kemet 14:50, 21 July 2006 (UTC)
Although the term "deadbeat parent" is mentioned in the intro, the fact that there is no associated article, nor an article for "deadbeat mother" makes this article inherently gender biased. I suggest renaming to "deadbeat parent."
I may be accused of being PC, but I am a single father who receives no support or involvement from the mother. All of the discussions on the talk page are gender-neutral, shouldn't the title reflect this? Doc Gloom 22:20, 2 February 2007 (UTC)
No, it should be deadbeat dads. The vast majority of deadbeats are dads. Where is the discussion of displaced homemakers and abandoned children?
Not that you care, but half my friends (and of course, myself) experienced the joy of deadbeat dads: abandoning us, taking everything (including pictures off the walls and my babysitting money-yes, I saw him do it.), and using us as legal pawns. Actions speak louder than words, though mine said plenty.
Again, not that you care, although the details of our stories vary somewhat, the big picture is the always the same. They leave, don’t pay child support even when they make good money, ask for visitation and custody as a legal ploy. In word and action, they want freedom from parasites. Their life mission is to sleep around, have all they want, and do everything they please. This level of self-entitlement and narcissism is very expensive. Yes, mine was on the prowl during visitation. I know his tastes, line, and MO. After the divorce is final, the deadbeat dads don’t bother to pretend to care about their kids.
It’s amazing how selfish and narcissistic they are. They want to sell our homes, pay no support, and use us but we are supposed be loyal, loving, and respectful. Such hypocrites.
Maybe everybody should stop having inconvenient and expensive offspring. Then everything can be about themselves.
Karma plays the long game. I personally know of five cases. It makes me smile. They earned it.
Sincerely,
Merely One of many Disaffected Disaffected (U earned it!) ( talk) 16:29, 19 July 2021 (UTC)
It seems that this section was recently added at the top of this article, claiming that "Many "deadbeat dads" are actually victims of forced paternity - a form of domestic violence against men." While that is probably true in some cases, this assertion is a)unsourced b)given unreasonable prominence in an article that purports to be about the subject of parents who do not fulfill their obligations to pay child support. I think it needs to go, be seriously amended, or put in a place into the article that more accurately reflects that it is a minority point of view and not uniformly true in most cases. The assertion that "forced paternity" is a kind of "domestic violence" seems particularly troublesome and original research to me, as redefining terms with commonly understood meanings is not Wikipedia's purpose. Dina 17:09, 19 May 2007 (UTC)
I have removed the section I've described as it is completely unsourced and, in my view, quite POV in an article that already suffers from POV problems. Here it is Dina 17:14, 19 May 2007 (UTC):
Many "deadbeat dads" are actually victims of forced paternity - a form of domestic violence against men.
Consent to have sex with someone does not constitute consent to have a child with her or him. Forcing someone to have a child against her or his will, or without her or his consent constitutes domestic violence. Domestic violence, whether against women or men, can take a physical form, or can take the form of psychological, economic or social domestic violence. Forced paternity is one of the more common forms of non-physical domestic violence against men.
Many people ignore or minimize the importance of non-physical domestic violence, even though
(1)it may be far more common, (2)it may induce more severe suffering, and (3) it can have longer lasting effects on the victims' lives and well being.
Self-reinforcing sexist stereotypes and role expectations of men being strong, aggressive and in control, and women being passive and defenseless victims perpetrates the cycle of domestic violence against men, induces under-reporting and stigma, and minimizes proper law and enforcement in this area.
Unfortunately, in many countries, the law assumes that consent to have sex equals consent to reproduce - at least if you are male. This represents one of the common sexist traditions embedded in law in this area that dates back to times when women were powerless under the law, and before the invention of safe and effective contraception, and emergency contraception.
After a bit of research I'd like to suggest that the title of this article be changed to "noncompliant payers of child support". Awkward yes, and a redirect from "deadbeat dad" should remain, as that is, frankly, at least in the U.S. the more "common" term. But I agree that as a title for an article "deadbeat dad" is both inherently POV and unencyclopedic. Dina 17:19, 19 May 2007 (UTC)
The article starts by saying the term is primarily used in the US, then refers to the child support agency in the UK. Also - it's a matter of fact that - although the article defines the meaning of the term reasonably well (if not a little too broadly) - the term as used referred to pretty much all divorced and never married fathers, and was strongly linked even more generally to anti-male rhetoric. The myth that fathers often abandon mothers and children was predicated on the idea that all men are selfish pigs (if I may use that term simply for the sake of brevity) and all women (and by extention children) are victims in a male-dominated society. One should not lose sight however, of the specific intent behind use of the term and the long and intense propaganda campaign that went with it. The federal government passed a series of corrupt reforms which would not have been accepted by the general public if they had been viewed objectively. Easily predicting that the victims of reforms (fathers) would complain, it was necessary to define them in such a way that their complaints and arguments would be ignored. As I have said that the article's definition may be slightly too broad - it is because there were a larger number of features associated with the term - including a "deadbeat dad's" high income, that he could easily afford to support his children but simply refused to do so, that he had abandoned the family rather than being forced from it by divorce, that the noncustodial parent is poor such that both she and the children were left "living in a hovel" and dependent on public support .... I have estimated that less than 1 percent (perhaps less than half a percent) of the subject population actually fits the definition. Certainly it is far less than those who simply fall behind in payments. Rogerfgay 11:08, 22 October 2007 (UTC)
Removed Shackelford from further reading list. Discussion about "deadbeat dads" included many articles attempting to explain why there were so many, done by researchers who assumed the truth of it. Shackelford's research for example, repeats a myth produced by the US Bureau of Census I believe it was (50% receive no payment, 25% receive partial payment). He then wants to explain from an evolutionary perspective, why men are such irresponsible pigs (expession for brevity) in their handling of family responsibilities in modern life. If this reference were given as an aid in explaining the extent of the problem with anti-father propaganda, it would serve a useful purpose in connection with the article. But it is simply one of many mistakes of that era in which researchers presumed the myth of deadbeat dads to be true, and launched investigations based on that belief. I have added two references for further reading that provide credible factual science and analysis of the politics involved. Rogerfgay 11:44, 22 October 2007 (UTC)
The title of this page produces clear, obvious gender bias. As it is possible for a parent of any gender to be forced to pay child support, and it is possible for a parent of any gender to be not in compliance with said child support order, I see no reason for the title page to hold this kind of bias. I am proposing, a renaming to Deadbeat Parent and partial rewrite of the article to help maintain WP:NPOV as much as possible. Does anyone disagree? Celarnor ( talk) 03:27, 10 March 2008 (UTC)
Since no one seemed to care, I've moved the page to Deadbeat Parents and changed a few links in pages such as Child Support. The majority of the pages that linked here were user talk pages and instances where the gender-specific form is required. Celarnor ( talk) 09:51, 11 March 2008 (UTC)
Even before the TOC, there is a bunch of caps-locked nonsense that is really people just people expressing their distaste for the subject of the article, and for American English. It is out of order with the rest of the talk page, and I move to delete it, and look through it, while placing the (possibly) serious discussion topics at the bottom of the page, where it belongs. From when I type t his, I will give one week for objection, discussion, or for someone else to do it, before I do it myself. Landfritter ( talk) 03:28, 3 December 2008 (UTC)
This article should be titled "Deadbeat dad." It's a simple fact that the phrase "Deadbeat mom" is not used except on rare occasions to illustrate the sexist (or at least one-sided) nature of the term. Some comments here have brought up how this article is sexist because mothers can be deadbeats too. This is simply wrong. The article should simply reflect the reality and the reality is sexist. Mothers who "abandon" their kids are not considered deadbeats but fathers are. They may be considered bad mothers for not having custody of their children, but there is little real social, much less legal, stigma on them for subsequently failing to financially support the children. Indeed mothers have the option to take birth control or the morning after pill, may abort the child, legally adopt out the child, or completely abandon the child under "Safe Haven" laws with no future financial responsibility whatsoever. Mothers have the full gamut of reproductive rights and options but they are not legally expected to assume the commensurate responsibility for those rights. Only men and fathers are really labeled, or legally pursued, as deadbeats and this article is falsely implying that such is not the case using misleading gender neutral language. Just like in this article, when the term "deadbeat parent" is used it is little more than a PC euphemism for deadbeat dad. More important than the title though is the fact that the entire article maintains this charade of gender neutrality without every pointing out that virtually 100% of those referred to as "deadbeat parents" are dads. This is a clear example of where political correctness goes wrong. The articles lead even says "the gender-specific deadbeat dad and deadbeat mom are commonly used by the child support agency to refer to men and women who have fathered or mothered a child and willingly fail to pay child support ordered by a family law court or statutory agency such as the Child Support Agency." I'd be surprised if a any child support agency EVER used the term "deadbeat mom" (rather than parent) much less that it was "common."-- Cybermud ( talk) 17:48, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
I notice an IP editor is repeatedly trying to bring up the allegations against Joe Walsh (Illinois politician) as an anecdotal example of a "deadbeat parent". I have two issues with this. First, Wikipedia is not a courtroom; if Rep. Walsh is in fact in arrears on child support, that will be borne out by a court of law, and only after such court action is entered into the public record should it be reflected in a Wikipedia article. Second, anecdotal information such as this is best left out of the article, both as a WP:BLP violation and as a matter of a right of privacy for the accused individual. -- Alan the Roving Ambassador (User:N5iln) ( talk) 17:19, 3 August 2011 (UTC)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Pejorative_terms_for_people I suggest revisions be made to reflect Wikipedia policy and clearly identify it not as a descriptive but as a pejorative. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.184.175.8 ( talk) 02:25, 21 January 2014 (UTC)
You appear to be relatively new to editing Wikipedia. The category system does not work the way that many people assume it works. The concept that some "rather important group of editors" is responsible for it is wrong; an article is not added to a category by some particularly important editor editing a category list, but by someone who edits the article adding a tag to the article. This article was put into that category by someone who was editing this article in 2005, and who has had no edits to the article before or since. It has no special magic as an edit, and can be easily removed at any time. If the subsequent editors of this article have allowed that category tag to remain, they are also the ones who have reshaped the opening so that it is no longer describing it as a pejorative term. -- Nat Gertler ( talk) 16:33, 21 January 2014 (UTC)
If you believe you have achieved consensus that it is not a pejorative, remove it from the list. But be prepared to explain your actions to other editors. It has been there for 9 years without anyone successfully removing it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.184.175.8 ( talk) 17:02, 21 January 2014 (UTC)
From NPOVNAME "Article titles and redirects should anticipate what readers will type as a first guess and balance that with what readers expect to be taken to. Thus, typing "Octomom" properly redirects to Nadya Suleman, which is in keeping with point #2, above. Typing "Antennagate" redirects the reader to a particular section of iPhone 4, which is in keeping with points #1 and #2, above. Typing "Great Leap Forward" does not redirect, which is in keeping with the general principle, as is typing "9-11 hijackers", which redirects to the more aptly named Hijackers in the September 11 attacks." This is a discussion of living persons and the fact that the more pejorative term should redirect to a proper name or less pejorative proper term. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.184.175.8 ( talk) 17:29, 21 January 2014 (UTC)
Because under section 2, it is a colloquillism and not an official term. A more encyclopedic term should be favored — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.184.175.8 ( talk) 17:36, 21 January 2014 (UTC)
Another proposed name, "Delinquent Parent (Child Support)." It fits established conventions for specificity, includes a term that has passed peer review as appropriately descriptive, is NPOV, and is still concise. I might also suggest an even more radical departure and suggest this article instead of addressing persons, address behavior, "Child Support Evasion" would be a good title, and it returns 13,500 when placed in quotes in google and is the legal term for this behavior. As a corollary, "Child Support Evader" returns 2,370 hits in quotes and is a very precise legal description of the person who intentionally refuse to pay child support. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.184.175.8 ( talk) 03:53, 22 January 2014 (UTC) I think "Child Support Evader" is the correct choice. Nearly all of the 2,370 sites using it are law firms, news outlets, private detective agencies and the offices of states' Attorney's General. Google it. It's the actual, proper term. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.184.175.8 ( talk) 04:08, 22 January 2014 (UTC) While some of those sources appear in the search results for "deadbeat parent," many more, the majority probably, are self help websites, blogs and websites specializing in user answered questions. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.184.175.8 ( talk) 04:24, 22 January 2014 (UTC)
Deadbeat parent → Child Support Evader – As extensively discussed above the term deadbeat parent is an POV colloquialism and a slur. It falls afoul of POVNAME2 and should be avoided as per Wikipedia policy. Child Support Evader is the correct legal term (deriving from the legal construct of Tax Evasion- Tax Evader), is extraordinarily specific, is well known and professionally accepted and is used by competent and professional authorities in a precise and non colloquial manner. It is the only correct and acceptable term other than Britannica's construct of Delinquent Parent. 70.184.175.8 ( talk) 06:05, 22 January 2014 (UTC)
http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&URL=0000-0099/0061/Sections/0061.30.html http://www.courts.ca.gov/1198.htm — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.184.175.8 ( talk) 02:48, 23 January 2014 (UTC)
And that's 5.2 million more to the California model, and 3 million more to Texas' model. What's that, 63.7 million and 29 million to 19.7. And lest you choose a federal accounting, it's also 5-1 with 4 of the top 5 counted. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.184.175.8 ( talk) 02:58, 23 January 2014 (UTC) Not to put to fine a point on this Nat, but for someone who talks like he's very certain of himself on this issue, all you have is bad reading of POVNAME, one cherry picked jurisdiction (and wait until I dig into the legislative history and prove they chose it because it was inflammatory) and 45,000 Google hits for "deadbeat parent." Your argument is so thing it would be public indecency if you wore it outside your own home. Do some research and bring at least some relevant data. Because what you have to oppose is worse than nothing. It's fairly clear one New York name and shame list and 45,000 websites isn't going to equal 5 US states totaling a population over 100 million people. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.184.175.8 ( talk) 03:10, 23 January 2014 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: Not moved. EdJohnston ( talk) 04:02, 2 February 2014 (UTC)
Deadbeat parent → Failure to Pay Child Support – COMMONNAME and POVNAME2. "Deadbeat parent" is a rarely used- only 45,000 Google hits- slur, that has no legal acceptance. It is an attempt to preserve the article on "deadbeat dads" without having to parent" in the unofficial names of bills being advance or to describe people whose failure to pay child support they wish to make public, all but a minority of states which adopted Texas' Model (Defining the conduct as Child Support Evasion, this term returns only a make any other changes than making it gender neutral. The discussion should be broadened and cleaned up. The COMMONNAME for what is under discussion in this article is Failure to Pay Child Support, a term on the law books of the majority of states, which is universally clear, and returns 1.49 million hits. Meaning it is 30 times more common at least on the internet, and vastly better known in the legal community, which is especially relevant to an article about legal issues, than "deadbeat parent" and more than twice as well known as "deadbeat dad" which has only 628,000 hits. It is encyclopedic, and worthy of the time and attention of an encyclopedia, things that cannot be said in good faith for "deadbeat parent" which deserves the time and attention of a slang dictionary. 70.184.175.8 ( talk) 05:44, 23 January 2014 (UTC)
And by the way, the phrasing above of my moves rationale is jumbled from the original wording. Not sure how that happened or what to say about it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.184.175.8 ( talk) 07:17, 24 January 2014 (UTC)
I was going to close the move in the previous section but decided not to as the argument is parochial and seems to be only about usage in the USA.
See for example
The UK and IE and AUS use very similar language, the NZ article uses different terms.
The article name (and content) should reflect usage in all English speaking countries and "Deadbeat parent" is American slang -- A global search on the term in the UK domain returns
"dead beat parent" site:uk 348 (estimated) 40 actual results for good bad and indifferent sources -- so it should be changed to something more appropriate which is a either a neurally descriptive title or one which is more universally used.
There is a UN " Convention on the Recovery Abroad of Maintenance", which would allow for a neutrally worded title such as "Recovery of child maintenance payments". and the convention would be a good place to start such an article. -- PBS ( talk) 14:54, 31 January 2014 (UTC)
Google returns 19,900,000 hits for the the search: racialized deadbeat dad. The term is racist, and that needs to be noted in the lead. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.78.149.130 ( talk) 05:55, 21 May 2014 (UTC)
Facts: An October 7 2014 Google search for "racialized deadbeat dad" returned "About 10,700 results (0.56 seconds)"; in the same Google search, the key term "deadbeat dad" returned "About 666,000 results (0.26 seconds)"; The Government website of the Department of Health and Human Services uses the term " Most Wanted Deadbeat" (accessed 7 October 2014) to wit: 3/4 were white or Caucasian men.
Remedy: It is suggested that instead of "Racialized pejorative" a more accurate representation would be "colloquial pejorative" of one in default of court ordered child support payments. The term is used widely in West Virginia, who has a 93.9% white population (2010) and it is assumed that race is not an issue to the term. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Brett Gasper ( talk • contribs) 22:58, 7 October 2014 (UTC)
Racial component of the article has been removed. stop making everything about race please — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
71.246.213.162 (
talk)
03:41, 10 February 2015 (UTC)
I've seen no justification for the article to exist. What does it provide in terms of language? An explication of a oft used racial slur, sometimes used as a poor white trash-ism. This is an "urban dictionary" term not an encyclopedic term. Grow up. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.49.76.16 ( talk) 06:09, 4 March 2015 (UTC)
It should be noted that failure to allow or encourage visitation when ordered by the court should be considered deadbeat as well. When it comes to enforcement of visitation the office of the AG in Texas any way is " we are not responsible for that, hire an attorney". — Preceding unsigned comment added by Shortmech ( talk • contribs) 23:04, 23 March 2015 (UTC)
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The "See Also" section contains links that are relevant to the topic (child custody, child support, etc). However, the last link is "Kody Brown" and the link leads to an article about the television series "Sister Wives". Kody Brown is apparently the patriarch on that show. I looked through the Sister Wives article and I'm struggling to see how it's relevant to the topic of "deadbeat parents". There's nothing in the Sister Wives article that specifically mentions child custody or deadbeat parents. Is the inclusion of the link a mistake? Was there previously an article that contained information relevant to this topic? Keylimepie2006 ( talk) 16:11, 27 December 2023 (UTC)
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Absolutely true. This nasty term is used to tar the non-custodial parent. An estimated 500,000+ are in prison today for the crime of not having enough money to pay their child support. That is a debtor's prison. One of the ironies is that some of the worst non-paying non-custodial parents are mothers. A case-by-case analysis generally discovers that the NCP has lost his/her job, become ill, or otherwise limited in their abilty to earn money. Family Law Judges then "impute" their prior income to the NCP, who cannot pay, and an arrearage mounts until an enforcement action is taken. One of the most famous of these actions was last year in NJ, when Monmouth County jailed Wilbur Street. Street had developed ALS and was confined to a wheelchair. On the second day of his incarceration for a child support arrearage, Street died of ALS.
For more -- The Deadbeat Dad Myth: Strategies and Research in Defense of Men in Divorce. Bender, W.N., and Beneder, R.L. University of Georgia Press, 1990.
"But, like any other past-due debt, the obligee, typically a mother, may forgive what is owed to her."
It has always been my understanding that child support was owed to the child rather than the parent. I don't have a citation for this, but does anyone have anything that backs up the claim that the obligee is the child's guardian? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 172.191.163.177 ( talk • contribs)
I agree that this article is biased. I does not explore reasoning as to why parents do and dont pay. Also the exploration of issues related to bias within child support agencies.
This section is biased. I agree that "deadbeat dads" or "moms" for that matter is an inflammatory term, but I disagree that most parents don't pay because they can't afford it. It may be the case in some areas (states) but many places (and there are places outside the US) have systems where child support is calculated based on the non-custodial parent's income and expenses. Please edit this section!!
Your opinion of why a non-custodial parent does not make child support payments is irrelevant. What matters are the facts, and not opinions in this matter. This is a well researched area, and while there are always exceptions, most of the non-payers cannot pay for one or more reasons, including being in jail. Cia123454321 15:06, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
This point is factually indisputable.
Louisiana reported that 70% of all arrears are owed by parents making less than $10,000/year. citation needed
What does matter is facts. It is indisputable that orders are being made that exceed parents ability to pay. citation needed
According to this article California reports that 71% of the orders are by default. Just another example of deadbeat parents not caring for their children to even go to the court, instead they choose to hide. Individuals hide themselves, money and revenue to not pay childsupport. That 70% figure represents what Louisiana's governments say, but no one can verify that number. Deadbeat parent is really a two fold term. One does not pay and second does not care about their children. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.65.149.55 ( talk) 15:16, 21 October 2013 (UTC)
Regarding whether or not parents who don't pay can afford to.... It does not make sense to me to assume that parents would prefer incarceration over paying reasonably for the support of their children. Even if they were disinterested in their children's welfare, selfish motivation suggests they'd be better off outside of prison than in.
Low income obligees not only have insufficient income to pay support, they have insufficient income to hire good lawyers to protect (or often, even help them understand) their rights. Most states with the Income Shares CS model do allow for a Self Support Reserve for the non-custodial parent, an amount that get's sheltered from potential assignment to support, but it's usually set at or below the Federal Poverty level.
Higher income obligees that wind up in jail for non-support must either be idiots, not truly high income, or victims of a broken system. I find it hard to believe that the majority of them prefer jail to living in a 1500 sq ft Ranch rather than a 2500 sq ft Colonial.
129.33.1.37 19:55, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
Fox News quotes do not reliable sources make, so I've deleted this: "According to Fox News: Non-payment of child support is a significant problem in the United States. According to the Federal Office of Child Support, in 2003, $96 billion in accumulated unpaid support was due to children in the United States; 68 percent of child support cases were in arrears. An overwhelming majority of children, particularly minorities, living in single-parent homes where child support is not paid live in poverty." Unless the author can locate and cite the source Fox News quotes, it has no place here. Kemet 14:50, 21 July 2006 (UTC)
Although the term "deadbeat parent" is mentioned in the intro, the fact that there is no associated article, nor an article for "deadbeat mother" makes this article inherently gender biased. I suggest renaming to "deadbeat parent."
I may be accused of being PC, but I am a single father who receives no support or involvement from the mother. All of the discussions on the talk page are gender-neutral, shouldn't the title reflect this? Doc Gloom 22:20, 2 February 2007 (UTC)
No, it should be deadbeat dads. The vast majority of deadbeats are dads. Where is the discussion of displaced homemakers and abandoned children?
Not that you care, but half my friends (and of course, myself) experienced the joy of deadbeat dads: abandoning us, taking everything (including pictures off the walls and my babysitting money-yes, I saw him do it.), and using us as legal pawns. Actions speak louder than words, though mine said plenty.
Again, not that you care, although the details of our stories vary somewhat, the big picture is the always the same. They leave, don’t pay child support even when they make good money, ask for visitation and custody as a legal ploy. In word and action, they want freedom from parasites. Their life mission is to sleep around, have all they want, and do everything they please. This level of self-entitlement and narcissism is very expensive. Yes, mine was on the prowl during visitation. I know his tastes, line, and MO. After the divorce is final, the deadbeat dads don’t bother to pretend to care about their kids.
It’s amazing how selfish and narcissistic they are. They want to sell our homes, pay no support, and use us but we are supposed be loyal, loving, and respectful. Such hypocrites.
Maybe everybody should stop having inconvenient and expensive offspring. Then everything can be about themselves.
Karma plays the long game. I personally know of five cases. It makes me smile. They earned it.
Sincerely,
Merely One of many Disaffected Disaffected (U earned it!) ( talk) 16:29, 19 July 2021 (UTC)
It seems that this section was recently added at the top of this article, claiming that "Many "deadbeat dads" are actually victims of forced paternity - a form of domestic violence against men." While that is probably true in some cases, this assertion is a)unsourced b)given unreasonable prominence in an article that purports to be about the subject of parents who do not fulfill their obligations to pay child support. I think it needs to go, be seriously amended, or put in a place into the article that more accurately reflects that it is a minority point of view and not uniformly true in most cases. The assertion that "forced paternity" is a kind of "domestic violence" seems particularly troublesome and original research to me, as redefining terms with commonly understood meanings is not Wikipedia's purpose. Dina 17:09, 19 May 2007 (UTC)
I have removed the section I've described as it is completely unsourced and, in my view, quite POV in an article that already suffers from POV problems. Here it is Dina 17:14, 19 May 2007 (UTC):
Many "deadbeat dads" are actually victims of forced paternity - a form of domestic violence against men.
Consent to have sex with someone does not constitute consent to have a child with her or him. Forcing someone to have a child against her or his will, or without her or his consent constitutes domestic violence. Domestic violence, whether against women or men, can take a physical form, or can take the form of psychological, economic or social domestic violence. Forced paternity is one of the more common forms of non-physical domestic violence against men.
Many people ignore or minimize the importance of non-physical domestic violence, even though
(1)it may be far more common, (2)it may induce more severe suffering, and (3) it can have longer lasting effects on the victims' lives and well being.
Self-reinforcing sexist stereotypes and role expectations of men being strong, aggressive and in control, and women being passive and defenseless victims perpetrates the cycle of domestic violence against men, induces under-reporting and stigma, and minimizes proper law and enforcement in this area.
Unfortunately, in many countries, the law assumes that consent to have sex equals consent to reproduce - at least if you are male. This represents one of the common sexist traditions embedded in law in this area that dates back to times when women were powerless under the law, and before the invention of safe and effective contraception, and emergency contraception.
After a bit of research I'd like to suggest that the title of this article be changed to "noncompliant payers of child support". Awkward yes, and a redirect from "deadbeat dad" should remain, as that is, frankly, at least in the U.S. the more "common" term. But I agree that as a title for an article "deadbeat dad" is both inherently POV and unencyclopedic. Dina 17:19, 19 May 2007 (UTC)
The article starts by saying the term is primarily used in the US, then refers to the child support agency in the UK. Also - it's a matter of fact that - although the article defines the meaning of the term reasonably well (if not a little too broadly) - the term as used referred to pretty much all divorced and never married fathers, and was strongly linked even more generally to anti-male rhetoric. The myth that fathers often abandon mothers and children was predicated on the idea that all men are selfish pigs (if I may use that term simply for the sake of brevity) and all women (and by extention children) are victims in a male-dominated society. One should not lose sight however, of the specific intent behind use of the term and the long and intense propaganda campaign that went with it. The federal government passed a series of corrupt reforms which would not have been accepted by the general public if they had been viewed objectively. Easily predicting that the victims of reforms (fathers) would complain, it was necessary to define them in such a way that their complaints and arguments would be ignored. As I have said that the article's definition may be slightly too broad - it is because there were a larger number of features associated with the term - including a "deadbeat dad's" high income, that he could easily afford to support his children but simply refused to do so, that he had abandoned the family rather than being forced from it by divorce, that the noncustodial parent is poor such that both she and the children were left "living in a hovel" and dependent on public support .... I have estimated that less than 1 percent (perhaps less than half a percent) of the subject population actually fits the definition. Certainly it is far less than those who simply fall behind in payments. Rogerfgay 11:08, 22 October 2007 (UTC)
Removed Shackelford from further reading list. Discussion about "deadbeat dads" included many articles attempting to explain why there were so many, done by researchers who assumed the truth of it. Shackelford's research for example, repeats a myth produced by the US Bureau of Census I believe it was (50% receive no payment, 25% receive partial payment). He then wants to explain from an evolutionary perspective, why men are such irresponsible pigs (expession for brevity) in their handling of family responsibilities in modern life. If this reference were given as an aid in explaining the extent of the problem with anti-father propaganda, it would serve a useful purpose in connection with the article. But it is simply one of many mistakes of that era in which researchers presumed the myth of deadbeat dads to be true, and launched investigations based on that belief. I have added two references for further reading that provide credible factual science and analysis of the politics involved. Rogerfgay 11:44, 22 October 2007 (UTC)
The title of this page produces clear, obvious gender bias. As it is possible for a parent of any gender to be forced to pay child support, and it is possible for a parent of any gender to be not in compliance with said child support order, I see no reason for the title page to hold this kind of bias. I am proposing, a renaming to Deadbeat Parent and partial rewrite of the article to help maintain WP:NPOV as much as possible. Does anyone disagree? Celarnor ( talk) 03:27, 10 March 2008 (UTC)
Since no one seemed to care, I've moved the page to Deadbeat Parents and changed a few links in pages such as Child Support. The majority of the pages that linked here were user talk pages and instances where the gender-specific form is required. Celarnor ( talk) 09:51, 11 March 2008 (UTC)
Even before the TOC, there is a bunch of caps-locked nonsense that is really people just people expressing their distaste for the subject of the article, and for American English. It is out of order with the rest of the talk page, and I move to delete it, and look through it, while placing the (possibly) serious discussion topics at the bottom of the page, where it belongs. From when I type t his, I will give one week for objection, discussion, or for someone else to do it, before I do it myself. Landfritter ( talk) 03:28, 3 December 2008 (UTC)
This article should be titled "Deadbeat dad." It's a simple fact that the phrase "Deadbeat mom" is not used except on rare occasions to illustrate the sexist (or at least one-sided) nature of the term. Some comments here have brought up how this article is sexist because mothers can be deadbeats too. This is simply wrong. The article should simply reflect the reality and the reality is sexist. Mothers who "abandon" their kids are not considered deadbeats but fathers are. They may be considered bad mothers for not having custody of their children, but there is little real social, much less legal, stigma on them for subsequently failing to financially support the children. Indeed mothers have the option to take birth control or the morning after pill, may abort the child, legally adopt out the child, or completely abandon the child under "Safe Haven" laws with no future financial responsibility whatsoever. Mothers have the full gamut of reproductive rights and options but they are not legally expected to assume the commensurate responsibility for those rights. Only men and fathers are really labeled, or legally pursued, as deadbeats and this article is falsely implying that such is not the case using misleading gender neutral language. Just like in this article, when the term "deadbeat parent" is used it is little more than a PC euphemism for deadbeat dad. More important than the title though is the fact that the entire article maintains this charade of gender neutrality without every pointing out that virtually 100% of those referred to as "deadbeat parents" are dads. This is a clear example of where political correctness goes wrong. The articles lead even says "the gender-specific deadbeat dad and deadbeat mom are commonly used by the child support agency to refer to men and women who have fathered or mothered a child and willingly fail to pay child support ordered by a family law court or statutory agency such as the Child Support Agency." I'd be surprised if a any child support agency EVER used the term "deadbeat mom" (rather than parent) much less that it was "common."-- Cybermud ( talk) 17:48, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
I notice an IP editor is repeatedly trying to bring up the allegations against Joe Walsh (Illinois politician) as an anecdotal example of a "deadbeat parent". I have two issues with this. First, Wikipedia is not a courtroom; if Rep. Walsh is in fact in arrears on child support, that will be borne out by a court of law, and only after such court action is entered into the public record should it be reflected in a Wikipedia article. Second, anecdotal information such as this is best left out of the article, both as a WP:BLP violation and as a matter of a right of privacy for the accused individual. -- Alan the Roving Ambassador (User:N5iln) ( talk) 17:19, 3 August 2011 (UTC)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Pejorative_terms_for_people I suggest revisions be made to reflect Wikipedia policy and clearly identify it not as a descriptive but as a pejorative. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.184.175.8 ( talk) 02:25, 21 January 2014 (UTC)
You appear to be relatively new to editing Wikipedia. The category system does not work the way that many people assume it works. The concept that some "rather important group of editors" is responsible for it is wrong; an article is not added to a category by some particularly important editor editing a category list, but by someone who edits the article adding a tag to the article. This article was put into that category by someone who was editing this article in 2005, and who has had no edits to the article before or since. It has no special magic as an edit, and can be easily removed at any time. If the subsequent editors of this article have allowed that category tag to remain, they are also the ones who have reshaped the opening so that it is no longer describing it as a pejorative term. -- Nat Gertler ( talk) 16:33, 21 January 2014 (UTC)
If you believe you have achieved consensus that it is not a pejorative, remove it from the list. But be prepared to explain your actions to other editors. It has been there for 9 years without anyone successfully removing it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.184.175.8 ( talk) 17:02, 21 January 2014 (UTC)
From NPOVNAME "Article titles and redirects should anticipate what readers will type as a first guess and balance that with what readers expect to be taken to. Thus, typing "Octomom" properly redirects to Nadya Suleman, which is in keeping with point #2, above. Typing "Antennagate" redirects the reader to a particular section of iPhone 4, which is in keeping with points #1 and #2, above. Typing "Great Leap Forward" does not redirect, which is in keeping with the general principle, as is typing "9-11 hijackers", which redirects to the more aptly named Hijackers in the September 11 attacks." This is a discussion of living persons and the fact that the more pejorative term should redirect to a proper name or less pejorative proper term. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.184.175.8 ( talk) 17:29, 21 January 2014 (UTC)
Because under section 2, it is a colloquillism and not an official term. A more encyclopedic term should be favored — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.184.175.8 ( talk) 17:36, 21 January 2014 (UTC)
Another proposed name, "Delinquent Parent (Child Support)." It fits established conventions for specificity, includes a term that has passed peer review as appropriately descriptive, is NPOV, and is still concise. I might also suggest an even more radical departure and suggest this article instead of addressing persons, address behavior, "Child Support Evasion" would be a good title, and it returns 13,500 when placed in quotes in google and is the legal term for this behavior. As a corollary, "Child Support Evader" returns 2,370 hits in quotes and is a very precise legal description of the person who intentionally refuse to pay child support. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.184.175.8 ( talk) 03:53, 22 January 2014 (UTC) I think "Child Support Evader" is the correct choice. Nearly all of the 2,370 sites using it are law firms, news outlets, private detective agencies and the offices of states' Attorney's General. Google it. It's the actual, proper term. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.184.175.8 ( talk) 04:08, 22 January 2014 (UTC) While some of those sources appear in the search results for "deadbeat parent," many more, the majority probably, are self help websites, blogs and websites specializing in user answered questions. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.184.175.8 ( talk) 04:24, 22 January 2014 (UTC)
Deadbeat parent → Child Support Evader – As extensively discussed above the term deadbeat parent is an POV colloquialism and a slur. It falls afoul of POVNAME2 and should be avoided as per Wikipedia policy. Child Support Evader is the correct legal term (deriving from the legal construct of Tax Evasion- Tax Evader), is extraordinarily specific, is well known and professionally accepted and is used by competent and professional authorities in a precise and non colloquial manner. It is the only correct and acceptable term other than Britannica's construct of Delinquent Parent. 70.184.175.8 ( talk) 06:05, 22 January 2014 (UTC)
http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&URL=0000-0099/0061/Sections/0061.30.html http://www.courts.ca.gov/1198.htm — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.184.175.8 ( talk) 02:48, 23 January 2014 (UTC)
And that's 5.2 million more to the California model, and 3 million more to Texas' model. What's that, 63.7 million and 29 million to 19.7. And lest you choose a federal accounting, it's also 5-1 with 4 of the top 5 counted. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.184.175.8 ( talk) 02:58, 23 January 2014 (UTC) Not to put to fine a point on this Nat, but for someone who talks like he's very certain of himself on this issue, all you have is bad reading of POVNAME, one cherry picked jurisdiction (and wait until I dig into the legislative history and prove they chose it because it was inflammatory) and 45,000 Google hits for "deadbeat parent." Your argument is so thing it would be public indecency if you wore it outside your own home. Do some research and bring at least some relevant data. Because what you have to oppose is worse than nothing. It's fairly clear one New York name and shame list and 45,000 websites isn't going to equal 5 US states totaling a population over 100 million people. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.184.175.8 ( talk) 03:10, 23 January 2014 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: Not moved. EdJohnston ( talk) 04:02, 2 February 2014 (UTC)
Deadbeat parent → Failure to Pay Child Support – COMMONNAME and POVNAME2. "Deadbeat parent" is a rarely used- only 45,000 Google hits- slur, that has no legal acceptance. It is an attempt to preserve the article on "deadbeat dads" without having to parent" in the unofficial names of bills being advance or to describe people whose failure to pay child support they wish to make public, all but a minority of states which adopted Texas' Model (Defining the conduct as Child Support Evasion, this term returns only a make any other changes than making it gender neutral. The discussion should be broadened and cleaned up. The COMMONNAME for what is under discussion in this article is Failure to Pay Child Support, a term on the law books of the majority of states, which is universally clear, and returns 1.49 million hits. Meaning it is 30 times more common at least on the internet, and vastly better known in the legal community, which is especially relevant to an article about legal issues, than "deadbeat parent" and more than twice as well known as "deadbeat dad" which has only 628,000 hits. It is encyclopedic, and worthy of the time and attention of an encyclopedia, things that cannot be said in good faith for "deadbeat parent" which deserves the time and attention of a slang dictionary. 70.184.175.8 ( talk) 05:44, 23 January 2014 (UTC)
And by the way, the phrasing above of my moves rationale is jumbled from the original wording. Not sure how that happened or what to say about it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.184.175.8 ( talk) 07:17, 24 January 2014 (UTC)
I was going to close the move in the previous section but decided not to as the argument is parochial and seems to be only about usage in the USA.
See for example
The UK and IE and AUS use very similar language, the NZ article uses different terms.
The article name (and content) should reflect usage in all English speaking countries and "Deadbeat parent" is American slang -- A global search on the term in the UK domain returns
"dead beat parent" site:uk 348 (estimated) 40 actual results for good bad and indifferent sources -- so it should be changed to something more appropriate which is a either a neurally descriptive title or one which is more universally used.
There is a UN " Convention on the Recovery Abroad of Maintenance", which would allow for a neutrally worded title such as "Recovery of child maintenance payments". and the convention would be a good place to start such an article. -- PBS ( talk) 14:54, 31 January 2014 (UTC)
Google returns 19,900,000 hits for the the search: racialized deadbeat dad. The term is racist, and that needs to be noted in the lead. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.78.149.130 ( talk) 05:55, 21 May 2014 (UTC)
Facts: An October 7 2014 Google search for "racialized deadbeat dad" returned "About 10,700 results (0.56 seconds)"; in the same Google search, the key term "deadbeat dad" returned "About 666,000 results (0.26 seconds)"; The Government website of the Department of Health and Human Services uses the term " Most Wanted Deadbeat" (accessed 7 October 2014) to wit: 3/4 were white or Caucasian men.
Remedy: It is suggested that instead of "Racialized pejorative" a more accurate representation would be "colloquial pejorative" of one in default of court ordered child support payments. The term is used widely in West Virginia, who has a 93.9% white population (2010) and it is assumed that race is not an issue to the term. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Brett Gasper ( talk • contribs) 22:58, 7 October 2014 (UTC)
Racial component of the article has been removed. stop making everything about race please — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
71.246.213.162 (
talk)
03:41, 10 February 2015 (UTC)
I've seen no justification for the article to exist. What does it provide in terms of language? An explication of a oft used racial slur, sometimes used as a poor white trash-ism. This is an "urban dictionary" term not an encyclopedic term. Grow up. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.49.76.16 ( talk) 06:09, 4 March 2015 (UTC)
It should be noted that failure to allow or encourage visitation when ordered by the court should be considered deadbeat as well. When it comes to enforcement of visitation the office of the AG in Texas any way is " we are not responsible for that, hire an attorney". — Preceding unsigned comment added by Shortmech ( talk • contribs) 23:04, 23 March 2015 (UTC)
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The "See Also" section contains links that are relevant to the topic (child custody, child support, etc). However, the last link is "Kody Brown" and the link leads to an article about the television series "Sister Wives". Kody Brown is apparently the patriarch on that show. I looked through the Sister Wives article and I'm struggling to see how it's relevant to the topic of "deadbeat parents". There's nothing in the Sister Wives article that specifically mentions child custody or deadbeat parents. Is the inclusion of the link a mistake? Was there previously an article that contained information relevant to this topic? Keylimepie2006 ( talk) 16:11, 27 December 2023 (UTC)