This article is within the scope of WikiProject Poland, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
Poland on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.PolandWikipedia:WikiProject PolandTemplate:WikiProject PolandPoland articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Historic sites, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
historic sites on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Historic sitesWikipedia:WikiProject Historic sitesTemplate:WikiProject Historic sitesHistoric sites articles
This article was originally created under the Polish name "zabytek", and moved uncontroversially, if without discussion, two years back. I support having this under and English name, per
WP:Use English. Zabytek is meaningless to a foreign speaker, but the English name makes it more useful; this applies even more to the corresponding
Category:Zabytki. With regards to English references:
Gregor Thum (8 August 2011).
Uprooted: How Breslau Became Wroclaw during the Century of Expulsions. Princeton University Press. pp. 452–.
ISBN1-4008-3996-3. notes that while zabytek is sometiems translated as monument, this is not a good translation, as Polish zabytek can refer to a wider range of concepts (ex. books) which the English term monument would usually excuse;
the
Narodowy Instytut Dziedzictwa (National Heritage Board of Poland) has a rather poor English language page; it only summarizes it's mission at
[1], and in the text it does not translate or discuss the term zabytek (but neither is it using it);
Christian Douglas Kozłowska (1 January 1998).
Difficult Words in Polish-English Translation. Wydawn. Naukowe PWN. p. 163-164.
ISBN978-83-01-12439-7. seems to discuss the translation of the term most extensively, but her work is only visible in snippets, so I cannot provide a proper discussion of it (I'll see if I can obtain a scan of those pages and update this if I do).
my review of Google Books does not suggest that there's any widespread or even mariginal use of the word zabytek (zabytki) in English;
How come there is no Polish language version of this article? German would be very nice, too. :) Cheers,
Horst-schlaemma (
talk) 00:50, 27 September 2016 (UTC)reply
The Polish version of this subject (but not this article) is in the page
pl:Zabytek, which is interwikilinked to
en:National heritage site, and which subject is further evolved in Polish page
pl:Ochrona zabytków w Polsce, which is interwikilinked to
en:Historic preservation, etc. In other words, wikidata is pretty much screwed up everywhere, even in one-to-one database correspondence, the biggeste scerw-up being impossibility to interwiki redirects from underdeveloped/merged subtopics.
@
Staszek Lem and
Horst-schlaemma: Well, the common screw ups arise because a Foo-wiki article will cover a general topic (ex. national heritage site) as well as Foo-specific version of it (national heritage site in Foo) in one article, whereas English (international) Wikipedia article will quickly grow large with sections of [xyz] in various countries and this will lead to the creation of articles like National heritage sites in Poland, Germany, etc. Which won't be created in Foo-wikis anytime soon. The best solution - I have done it many times on pl wiki - is to split the section about [xyz in Foo/Poland] to its own subarticle, and then link it properly through interwikis. PS. I have went and created
pl:Zabytki w Polsce and fixed the interwikis here. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus|
reply here 05:57, 27 September 2016 (UTC)reply
Great work there
Piotrus, and super-pragmatic approach! That's what I've done before, too. Works pretty well. Thanks and cheers,
Horst-schlaemma (
talk) 14:51, 27 September 2016 (UTC)reply
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Poland, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
Poland on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.PolandWikipedia:WikiProject PolandTemplate:WikiProject PolandPoland articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Historic sites, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
historic sites on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Historic sitesWikipedia:WikiProject Historic sitesTemplate:WikiProject Historic sitesHistoric sites articles
This article was originally created under the Polish name "zabytek", and moved uncontroversially, if without discussion, two years back. I support having this under and English name, per
WP:Use English. Zabytek is meaningless to a foreign speaker, but the English name makes it more useful; this applies even more to the corresponding
Category:Zabytki. With regards to English references:
Gregor Thum (8 August 2011).
Uprooted: How Breslau Became Wroclaw during the Century of Expulsions. Princeton University Press. pp. 452–.
ISBN1-4008-3996-3. notes that while zabytek is sometiems translated as monument, this is not a good translation, as Polish zabytek can refer to a wider range of concepts (ex. books) which the English term monument would usually excuse;
the
Narodowy Instytut Dziedzictwa (National Heritage Board of Poland) has a rather poor English language page; it only summarizes it's mission at
[1], and in the text it does not translate or discuss the term zabytek (but neither is it using it);
Christian Douglas Kozłowska (1 January 1998).
Difficult Words in Polish-English Translation. Wydawn. Naukowe PWN. p. 163-164.
ISBN978-83-01-12439-7. seems to discuss the translation of the term most extensively, but her work is only visible in snippets, so I cannot provide a proper discussion of it (I'll see if I can obtain a scan of those pages and update this if I do).
my review of Google Books does not suggest that there's any widespread or even mariginal use of the word zabytek (zabytki) in English;
How come there is no Polish language version of this article? German would be very nice, too. :) Cheers,
Horst-schlaemma (
talk) 00:50, 27 September 2016 (UTC)reply
The Polish version of this subject (but not this article) is in the page
pl:Zabytek, which is interwikilinked to
en:National heritage site, and which subject is further evolved in Polish page
pl:Ochrona zabytków w Polsce, which is interwikilinked to
en:Historic preservation, etc. In other words, wikidata is pretty much screwed up everywhere, even in one-to-one database correspondence, the biggeste scerw-up being impossibility to interwiki redirects from underdeveloped/merged subtopics.
@
Staszek Lem and
Horst-schlaemma: Well, the common screw ups arise because a Foo-wiki article will cover a general topic (ex. national heritage site) as well as Foo-specific version of it (national heritage site in Foo) in one article, whereas English (international) Wikipedia article will quickly grow large with sections of [xyz] in various countries and this will lead to the creation of articles like National heritage sites in Poland, Germany, etc. Which won't be created in Foo-wikis anytime soon. The best solution - I have done it many times on pl wiki - is to split the section about [xyz in Foo/Poland] to its own subarticle, and then link it properly through interwikis. PS. I have went and created
pl:Zabytki w Polsce and fixed the interwikis here. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus|
reply here 05:57, 27 September 2016 (UTC)reply
Great work there
Piotrus, and super-pragmatic approach! That's what I've done before, too. Works pretty well. Thanks and cheers,
Horst-schlaemma (
talk) 14:51, 27 September 2016 (UTC)reply