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Can anyone supply an official source for the English name "communal settlement"? To me the word "communal" is about a commune, not a community. Shouldn't it have been a "community settlement", or perhaps even better (in more idiomatic English), "community town"?
84.111.4.103 ( talk) 06:23, 3 September 2009 (UTC)
Nyh ( talk) 08:39, 4 September 2009 (UTC)
The first, defining, paragraph of a "communal settlement" now reads:
But this is whitewash (to use a gentle term - other people might call it hogwash). This "definition" is indeed the official definition given by officials in such towns, but on second reading, one soon realizes it actually defines nothing: In every city and town in Israel, the citizens of the town cooperate in a "societal level" in a exactly the same way described here - the town (or its elected officials) controls the schools (and especially preschool), religious activities (when the property is owned by the town), public works, public buildings and facilities, and so on. In this respect, there's nothing special about a "communal settlement". Every town in Israel also defines (via a democratic process) bylaws that residents must obide by, building codes, zoning codes, and so on - just like a communal settlement does. In fact, a communal settlement probably doesn't belong in the "cooperative settlements in Israel" category any more than an ordinary town does.
The first paragraph, to be NPOV, must explain the difference between a Yishuv Kehilati and a regular Israeli town or city, rather than give the party line definition of the term. And what is that difference?
Basically, the only significant difference between a communal settlement and a regular town or city is that the communal settlement, unlike a town or city, is allowed to choose its residents. In a communal settlement, you are not allowed to sell a house, and sometimes even rent one out, to someone unless that person gets "accepted" by the community's acceptance committee. There are hardly any laws saying what such a committee's acceptance standards should be, so various communal settlements have chosen various criteria including age (almost exclusively favoring young people), race (always favoring Jews), family status (usually favoring legally married couples with children), and creed (some places only allow observant Jews, one only allow people who practice meditation, another allows only vegeterians, and some allow only people who profess to being "Zionists"). All of this obviously doesn't happen and can't happen in a "normal" town - in a normal town you can just sell your house to anybody you we - be it a single Jew, a married Arab couple, a single mom with 7 kids, a gay couple, or an elderly Chinese investor.
This single difference between a "communal settlement" and a "town" explains another superficial difference often seen between the two forms of settlements: Almost always, "communal settlements" are composed entirely of private houses each on its own plot of land (often, but not always, half a dunam), while most regular towns contain a mixture of such private houses (often dubbed "villas") and apartment buildings. This superficial difference is closely tied to the main difference (of the acceptance committee), to the point where it's hard to decide which is the cause, and which is the result. On one hand, absent a very centralistic government (like in the USSR or even Israel in the 50s) building large apartment buildings usually requires a commercial enterprise. Such a commercial enterprise's goals ("sell at the highest price") doesn't sit well with a communal settlement's goal ("sell only to those who get accepted"). But perhaps more importantly, communal settlements have more often than not been started by the Jewish Agency. This organization owns huge swaths of land in Israel (most legally bought by Jewish philanthropists) and its goal is to fill as much of its land as possible with Jews. As such, it wants to create settlements which are both spread out (therefore private houses instead of apartment buildings) and housed by Jews only (hence prefering a communal settlement, which lets them prohibit non-Jews from living there).
84.111.4.103 ( talk) 20:01, 30 August 2009 (UTC)
I decided to be bold, and made did a big overhaul of the page to really explain what separates a communal settlement from an ordinary town. 84.111.4.103 ( talk) 21:53, 2 September 2009 (UTC)
I am confused by this definition, which suggests that the only thing that makes it co-operative is its exclusivity, yet discrimination is prohibited by co-operative law in other countries. [4] Voluntary and open membership is the first of the ICA version of the Rochdale principles. Does this confuse other international readers? If so, can more explanation be added to the article. -- Hroðulf (or Hrothulf) ( Talk) 09:56, 29 January 2014 (UTC)
Please compare the Israeli concept of Community Settlement to that of a Housing cooperative which is similar but spans a large multi-tenant building. Also in the latter, the co-op can screen applicants to join it. Saying that housing co-ops are "normally non-selective" is not aligned with the usual facts, where candidates *are* screened. Sure, the official laws forbid discrimination because of race, religion, etc. but in practice, the co-op can claim other reasons ("social compatibility", etc.) were the reason for rejection, and not racism. 87.69.227.74 ( talk) 11:41, 26 November 2014 (UTC)
I have reverted the WP:BOLD move of this article to the undisambiguated title Community settlement.
I agree that it is not usual practice to pre-emptively disambiguate, but this phrase of two common words is used in several other contexts, and its undisambiguated use here is likely to cause confusion.
The other uses include a pattern of ethnically-similar settlement in Australia (see Google Books search), and the British 1920s Empire Community Settlement Scheme ( "empire+Community+settlement", [5]). The term also seems to have some sort of generic usage in geography [6]. -- BrownHairedGirl (talk) • ( contribs) 10:05, 30 January 2014 (UTC)
Huldra & Nomoskedasticity - you seem to have a problem with including this IMPORTANT fact on settlement pages where it is applied. Instead of edit warring, please discuss this. he:יישוב קהילתי is translated to English this way. Here is an [ example]. All I have done is starting to go through the Hebrew wiki and copy the information into the English one. Please advise. Ashtul ( talk) 08:44, 18 February 2015 (UTC)
A community settlement (Hebrew: יישוב קהילתי, Yishuv Kehilati) is a type of town in Israel. While in an ordinary town anyone may buy property, in a community settlement the town's residents, who are organized in a cooperative, can veto a sale of a house or a business to an undesirable buyer. Nishidani ( talk) 13:02, 19 February 2015 (UTC)
I have changed it to A community settlement (Hebrew: יישוב קהילתי, Yishuv Kehilati) is a type of town in Israel and the West Bank. I hope this will resolve this conflict. Ashtul ( talk) 15:06, 19 February 2015 (UTC)
I have restored the original text to the three articles I have spotted being edit warred over. The fact that the places are Israeli settlements does not change their internal governance arrangements. Settlements are set up as kibbutzim, moshavim and communal settlements, and I find it odd in the extreme that this has become a bone of contention. I really do not understand the point in removing factually correct information from the articles. The above excuse about the introduction to this article is flimsy in the extreme, and I hope the edit made by Ashtul goes some way to stopping it. Number 5 7 16:34, 19 February 2015 (UTC)
As noted, this article is severely in need of citations. One key issue is the following: is "yishuv kehilati" just a common description, or is it an official classification bestowed on a place by the government? Does one become a yishuv kehilati just by deciding to be one, or does one need some government department to grant that status? In the case of a West Bank settlement, if the government has officially designated it as a yishuv kehilati, and there is a source for that, I don't object to it being mentioned in the article for that place. However, if it is just a claim made by the settlers who live there, without government confirmation, it doesn't deserve a mention. In any case, it shouldn't be in the lead sentence as that should reflect the majority viewpoint of reliable sources (which is "Israeli settlement" overwhelmingly). Concoctions like "Israeli settlement and community settlement" are just terrible writing—it sounds like there are two places being mentioned. One should introduce it as an Israeli settlement and then later, provided it can be properly sourced, note that it is classified as a community settlement. Zero talk 15:58, 19 February 2015 (UTC)
Let's go back to square one. Many towns in the west bank are considered 'yishuv kehilati'. This fact is beyond argument. I asked again my real estate friend and he explained briefly the town doesn't have any ownership over the land but it can prevent transfer of rights if a prospect buyer does pass the committee. There are many laws which regard this element but it is a mechanism that is secondary and doesn't change the definition. Ashtul ( talk) 12:50, 20 February 2015 (UTC)
Nishidani, some of the material you introduce is specific for settlement in the West Bank and not about the locality type and though some of the material apply, it is unclear what is what. Much of it apply only to 'Hitnahluyot' and not 'Yishuv Kehilati' I don't have time to go through this in depth right now but Palestinian Labour Migration to Israel: Labour, Land and Occupation is a brief look refer explicitly to West Bank settlements and is irrelevant. Ashtul ( talk) 20:31, 19 February 2015 (UTC)
In response to the query about the name, I believe the original title of this article was "Communal settlement", and at some point it was changed to "Community settlement". Personally I think "Communal" is a better description, as all settlements are communities in some way or another, but not all are communal. The official English name for them is "Communal locality". I wouldn't be opposed to moving it to this title or back to "Communal settlement". Number 5 7 14:23, 20 February 2015 (UTC)
I will try to make it short.
Nishidani, after spending hours by now you still don't understand the basic concept of Yishuv Kehilati.
You also seem to confuse WB sewttlements and Community ones. For example -
As a result statements that covers many other WBS are applied to Many CS which has nothing to do with it.
Then you placed in the lead the unsourced, controversial
WP:OR statement such as "essentially took shape as a new typology for settling the West Bank, but also in the Galilee as part of the aim of establishing a 'demographic balance' between Jews and Arabs, and thwarting the development of a Palestinian state". No source! Regardless, it appears unsourced under Controversy, it is made by a political organization and applied only for some settlements. There is no way it should be in the lead.
The main issue with your sources is that most of them deals with Israeli control over the West Bank. The terms Settlement and Community Settlement switch turns very quickly and easily thus if one chooses to work with these source, one should be extra careful to understand which one is dealt with and in case of doubt, not write. Unfortunately, this was NOT how you did it as I presented.
Your changes effect too many parts of the article to sort through and figure out which is what. That is why I deleted it all. Please advise...
Ashtul ( talk) 19:20, 21 February 2015 (UTC)
I have hidden the pointless flame war. Please discuss the content not who did what. -- Hroðulf (or Hrothulf) ( Talk) 11:39, 22 February 2015 (UTC)
Ashtul. It is impossible from your edit summaries to understand the reasons for your changes to the text as often as not. The edit summaries are false or based on a failure to recall the content of the available sources i.e.
You remove this
With the edit summary: Source say clearly the figure includes kibbutzim and moshavim which are DIFFERENT (rm))
The source contradicts that, which is original research since the source nowhere mentions in that section are kibbutzim or moshavim mentioned. It says most of the 115 settlements were precisely of the type described in our article..
‘The years 1977-1989 were the period of massive expansion of the settlements in the West Bank. By 1989, a total of 115 settlements had been built, most of the community settlement/suburban type.
All you needed to do was ask me for exact figures (now added from Kellerman), or make the point that not all of the 115 were of the CS type.
This nonsensical flag-waving shows unfamiliarity with the linked sources, and is used to remove from the lead the following text:
'essentially took shape as a new typology for settling the West Bank, but also in the Galilee as part of the aim of establishing a 'demographic balance' between Jews and Arabs, and thwarting the development of a Palestinian state.'
The source text says.
‘a new settlement typology had to be conceived. In the early 1980s the ‘community settlement’ was developed by the settlement division of the WZO together with Amanah, the settlement arm of Gush Emunim, for the purpose of settling the mountain areas under Israel’s control, both within Israel in the Galilee, and in the occupied areas of the West Bank. In both regions this was part of the national effort to create a ‘demographic balance’ between Jews and Arabs.' (Weizman p.126)
There are other examples of obvious falsely motivated removals, like that regarding the aim of impeding the formation of a Palestinian state as a prime objective. For these reasons, I have retained one element you added, while generally reverting and fixing the messy elisions you imposed.
I don't write articles oiff the top of my head. I always paraphrase what the cited source says. If you disagree with the paraphrase, consult the original, reprodsuce it, and show on the talk page why you think the summary is erroneous. Don't remove stuff at sight. Don't make judgements on your personal views. Nishidani ( talk) 13:23, 22 February 2015 (UTC)
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The result of the move request was: moved ( closed by non-admin page mover) SITH (talk) 22:11, 14 February 2019 (UTC)
Community settlement (Israel) →
Community settlement – Community settlement is about both places in Israel, and Israeli settlements in the Palestinian territories. Having only (Israel) in the name can therefore be confusing. Presently
Community settlement is just a redirect to this article.
Huldra (
talk) 20:55, 7 February 2019 (UTC)
This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
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Warning: active arbitration remedies The contentious topics procedure applies to this article. This article is related to the Arab–Israeli conflict, which is a contentious topic. Furthermore, the following rules apply when editing this article:
Editors who repeatedly or seriously fail to adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, any expected standards of behaviour, or any normal editorial process may be blocked or restricted by an administrator. Editors are advised to familiarise themselves with the contentious topics procedures before editing this page.
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Can anyone supply an official source for the English name "communal settlement"? To me the word "communal" is about a commune, not a community. Shouldn't it have been a "community settlement", or perhaps even better (in more idiomatic English), "community town"?
84.111.4.103 ( talk) 06:23, 3 September 2009 (UTC)
Nyh ( talk) 08:39, 4 September 2009 (UTC)
The first, defining, paragraph of a "communal settlement" now reads:
But this is whitewash (to use a gentle term - other people might call it hogwash). This "definition" is indeed the official definition given by officials in such towns, but on second reading, one soon realizes it actually defines nothing: In every city and town in Israel, the citizens of the town cooperate in a "societal level" in a exactly the same way described here - the town (or its elected officials) controls the schools (and especially preschool), religious activities (when the property is owned by the town), public works, public buildings and facilities, and so on. In this respect, there's nothing special about a "communal settlement". Every town in Israel also defines (via a democratic process) bylaws that residents must obide by, building codes, zoning codes, and so on - just like a communal settlement does. In fact, a communal settlement probably doesn't belong in the "cooperative settlements in Israel" category any more than an ordinary town does.
The first paragraph, to be NPOV, must explain the difference between a Yishuv Kehilati and a regular Israeli town or city, rather than give the party line definition of the term. And what is that difference?
Basically, the only significant difference between a communal settlement and a regular town or city is that the communal settlement, unlike a town or city, is allowed to choose its residents. In a communal settlement, you are not allowed to sell a house, and sometimes even rent one out, to someone unless that person gets "accepted" by the community's acceptance committee. There are hardly any laws saying what such a committee's acceptance standards should be, so various communal settlements have chosen various criteria including age (almost exclusively favoring young people), race (always favoring Jews), family status (usually favoring legally married couples with children), and creed (some places only allow observant Jews, one only allow people who practice meditation, another allows only vegeterians, and some allow only people who profess to being "Zionists"). All of this obviously doesn't happen and can't happen in a "normal" town - in a normal town you can just sell your house to anybody you we - be it a single Jew, a married Arab couple, a single mom with 7 kids, a gay couple, or an elderly Chinese investor.
This single difference between a "communal settlement" and a "town" explains another superficial difference often seen between the two forms of settlements: Almost always, "communal settlements" are composed entirely of private houses each on its own plot of land (often, but not always, half a dunam), while most regular towns contain a mixture of such private houses (often dubbed "villas") and apartment buildings. This superficial difference is closely tied to the main difference (of the acceptance committee), to the point where it's hard to decide which is the cause, and which is the result. On one hand, absent a very centralistic government (like in the USSR or even Israel in the 50s) building large apartment buildings usually requires a commercial enterprise. Such a commercial enterprise's goals ("sell at the highest price") doesn't sit well with a communal settlement's goal ("sell only to those who get accepted"). But perhaps more importantly, communal settlements have more often than not been started by the Jewish Agency. This organization owns huge swaths of land in Israel (most legally bought by Jewish philanthropists) and its goal is to fill as much of its land as possible with Jews. As such, it wants to create settlements which are both spread out (therefore private houses instead of apartment buildings) and housed by Jews only (hence prefering a communal settlement, which lets them prohibit non-Jews from living there).
84.111.4.103 ( talk) 20:01, 30 August 2009 (UTC)
I decided to be bold, and made did a big overhaul of the page to really explain what separates a communal settlement from an ordinary town. 84.111.4.103 ( talk) 21:53, 2 September 2009 (UTC)
I am confused by this definition, which suggests that the only thing that makes it co-operative is its exclusivity, yet discrimination is prohibited by co-operative law in other countries. [4] Voluntary and open membership is the first of the ICA version of the Rochdale principles. Does this confuse other international readers? If so, can more explanation be added to the article. -- Hroðulf (or Hrothulf) ( Talk) 09:56, 29 January 2014 (UTC)
Please compare the Israeli concept of Community Settlement to that of a Housing cooperative which is similar but spans a large multi-tenant building. Also in the latter, the co-op can screen applicants to join it. Saying that housing co-ops are "normally non-selective" is not aligned with the usual facts, where candidates *are* screened. Sure, the official laws forbid discrimination because of race, religion, etc. but in practice, the co-op can claim other reasons ("social compatibility", etc.) were the reason for rejection, and not racism. 87.69.227.74 ( talk) 11:41, 26 November 2014 (UTC)
I have reverted the WP:BOLD move of this article to the undisambiguated title Community settlement.
I agree that it is not usual practice to pre-emptively disambiguate, but this phrase of two common words is used in several other contexts, and its undisambiguated use here is likely to cause confusion.
The other uses include a pattern of ethnically-similar settlement in Australia (see Google Books search), and the British 1920s Empire Community Settlement Scheme ( "empire+Community+settlement", [5]). The term also seems to have some sort of generic usage in geography [6]. -- BrownHairedGirl (talk) • ( contribs) 10:05, 30 January 2014 (UTC)
Huldra & Nomoskedasticity - you seem to have a problem with including this IMPORTANT fact on settlement pages where it is applied. Instead of edit warring, please discuss this. he:יישוב קהילתי is translated to English this way. Here is an [ example]. All I have done is starting to go through the Hebrew wiki and copy the information into the English one. Please advise. Ashtul ( talk) 08:44, 18 February 2015 (UTC)
A community settlement (Hebrew: יישוב קהילתי, Yishuv Kehilati) is a type of town in Israel. While in an ordinary town anyone may buy property, in a community settlement the town's residents, who are organized in a cooperative, can veto a sale of a house or a business to an undesirable buyer. Nishidani ( talk) 13:02, 19 February 2015 (UTC)
I have changed it to A community settlement (Hebrew: יישוב קהילתי, Yishuv Kehilati) is a type of town in Israel and the West Bank. I hope this will resolve this conflict. Ashtul ( talk) 15:06, 19 February 2015 (UTC)
I have restored the original text to the three articles I have spotted being edit warred over. The fact that the places are Israeli settlements does not change their internal governance arrangements. Settlements are set up as kibbutzim, moshavim and communal settlements, and I find it odd in the extreme that this has become a bone of contention. I really do not understand the point in removing factually correct information from the articles. The above excuse about the introduction to this article is flimsy in the extreme, and I hope the edit made by Ashtul goes some way to stopping it. Number 5 7 16:34, 19 February 2015 (UTC)
As noted, this article is severely in need of citations. One key issue is the following: is "yishuv kehilati" just a common description, or is it an official classification bestowed on a place by the government? Does one become a yishuv kehilati just by deciding to be one, or does one need some government department to grant that status? In the case of a West Bank settlement, if the government has officially designated it as a yishuv kehilati, and there is a source for that, I don't object to it being mentioned in the article for that place. However, if it is just a claim made by the settlers who live there, without government confirmation, it doesn't deserve a mention. In any case, it shouldn't be in the lead sentence as that should reflect the majority viewpoint of reliable sources (which is "Israeli settlement" overwhelmingly). Concoctions like "Israeli settlement and community settlement" are just terrible writing—it sounds like there are two places being mentioned. One should introduce it as an Israeli settlement and then later, provided it can be properly sourced, note that it is classified as a community settlement. Zero talk 15:58, 19 February 2015 (UTC)
Let's go back to square one. Many towns in the west bank are considered 'yishuv kehilati'. This fact is beyond argument. I asked again my real estate friend and he explained briefly the town doesn't have any ownership over the land but it can prevent transfer of rights if a prospect buyer does pass the committee. There are many laws which regard this element but it is a mechanism that is secondary and doesn't change the definition. Ashtul ( talk) 12:50, 20 February 2015 (UTC)
Nishidani, some of the material you introduce is specific for settlement in the West Bank and not about the locality type and though some of the material apply, it is unclear what is what. Much of it apply only to 'Hitnahluyot' and not 'Yishuv Kehilati' I don't have time to go through this in depth right now but Palestinian Labour Migration to Israel: Labour, Land and Occupation is a brief look refer explicitly to West Bank settlements and is irrelevant. Ashtul ( talk) 20:31, 19 February 2015 (UTC)
In response to the query about the name, I believe the original title of this article was "Communal settlement", and at some point it was changed to "Community settlement". Personally I think "Communal" is a better description, as all settlements are communities in some way or another, but not all are communal. The official English name for them is "Communal locality". I wouldn't be opposed to moving it to this title or back to "Communal settlement". Number 5 7 14:23, 20 February 2015 (UTC)
I will try to make it short.
Nishidani, after spending hours by now you still don't understand the basic concept of Yishuv Kehilati.
You also seem to confuse WB sewttlements and Community ones. For example -
As a result statements that covers many other WBS are applied to Many CS which has nothing to do with it.
Then you placed in the lead the unsourced, controversial
WP:OR statement such as "essentially took shape as a new typology for settling the West Bank, but also in the Galilee as part of the aim of establishing a 'demographic balance' between Jews and Arabs, and thwarting the development of a Palestinian state". No source! Regardless, it appears unsourced under Controversy, it is made by a political organization and applied only for some settlements. There is no way it should be in the lead.
The main issue with your sources is that most of them deals with Israeli control over the West Bank. The terms Settlement and Community Settlement switch turns very quickly and easily thus if one chooses to work with these source, one should be extra careful to understand which one is dealt with and in case of doubt, not write. Unfortunately, this was NOT how you did it as I presented.
Your changes effect too many parts of the article to sort through and figure out which is what. That is why I deleted it all. Please advise...
Ashtul ( talk) 19:20, 21 February 2015 (UTC)
I have hidden the pointless flame war. Please discuss the content not who did what. -- Hroðulf (or Hrothulf) ( Talk) 11:39, 22 February 2015 (UTC)
Ashtul. It is impossible from your edit summaries to understand the reasons for your changes to the text as often as not. The edit summaries are false or based on a failure to recall the content of the available sources i.e.
You remove this
With the edit summary: Source say clearly the figure includes kibbutzim and moshavim which are DIFFERENT (rm))
The source contradicts that, which is original research since the source nowhere mentions in that section are kibbutzim or moshavim mentioned. It says most of the 115 settlements were precisely of the type described in our article..
‘The years 1977-1989 were the period of massive expansion of the settlements in the West Bank. By 1989, a total of 115 settlements had been built, most of the community settlement/suburban type.
All you needed to do was ask me for exact figures (now added from Kellerman), or make the point that not all of the 115 were of the CS type.
This nonsensical flag-waving shows unfamiliarity with the linked sources, and is used to remove from the lead the following text:
'essentially took shape as a new typology for settling the West Bank, but also in the Galilee as part of the aim of establishing a 'demographic balance' between Jews and Arabs, and thwarting the development of a Palestinian state.'
The source text says.
‘a new settlement typology had to be conceived. In the early 1980s the ‘community settlement’ was developed by the settlement division of the WZO together with Amanah, the settlement arm of Gush Emunim, for the purpose of settling the mountain areas under Israel’s control, both within Israel in the Galilee, and in the occupied areas of the West Bank. In both regions this was part of the national effort to create a ‘demographic balance’ between Jews and Arabs.' (Weizman p.126)
There are other examples of obvious falsely motivated removals, like that regarding the aim of impeding the formation of a Palestinian state as a prime objective. For these reasons, I have retained one element you added, while generally reverting and fixing the messy elisions you imposed.
I don't write articles oiff the top of my head. I always paraphrase what the cited source says. If you disagree with the paraphrase, consult the original, reprodsuce it, and show on the talk page why you think the summary is erroneous. Don't remove stuff at sight. Don't make judgements on your personal views. Nishidani ( talk) 13:23, 22 February 2015 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just added archive links to 2 external links on
Community settlement (Israel). Please take a moment to review
my edit. If necessary, add {{
cbignore}}
after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add {{
nobots|deny=InternetArchiveBot}}
to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 19:48, 22 February 2016 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: moved ( closed by non-admin page mover) SITH (talk) 22:11, 14 February 2019 (UTC)
Community settlement (Israel) →
Community settlement – Community settlement is about both places in Israel, and Israeli settlements in the Palestinian territories. Having only (Israel) in the name can therefore be confusing. Presently
Community settlement is just a redirect to this article.
Huldra (
talk) 20:55, 7 February 2019 (UTC)