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Frequently asked questions Q1: Why is Chopin described as a "Polish composer" in the lead (first paragraph)?
A1: There is a consensus between Wikipedians that the majority of
secondary
reliable sources refer to Chopin as solely a Polish composer. See
the last request for comment for further information. Q2: Why doesn't this article include more information on Chopin's sexuality?
A2: Opinions on Chopin's sexuality, particularly as to whether he was homosexual, are equivocal or absent in the majority of
secondary
reliable sources. Since this article is a
featured article, it is required to utilize only "high quality" sources; such sources do not generally give a direct declaration on whether Chopin was homosexual or not. See
this request for comment for further information. |
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Frédéric is the French spelling of Frederick. Since Chopin is referred to as solely Polish in the article instead of being Franco-Polish, I think it is more appropriate to rename the article to Fryderyk Chopin. Lebaophuoc2005 ( talk) 19:15, 16 November 2023 (UTC)
The letter quoted from Chopin to Tytus Woyciechowski is translated poorly. The scholar (Alan Walker) who translated it very clearly transposed his personal view about the implication of the letter onto the literal text itself, a practice he has been extensively criticised for in many languages. There are glaring errors in the text that become evident when contrasted to the original polish. For example:
In the second sentence, the word "całuj" is rendered as embrace. "całuj" is a polish word meaning "kiss". It is never translated as embrace. The phrase used in the letter (see last paragraph, 4th last line) is "nie całuj mnie", meaning "don't kiss me". Here is a webpage with nine examples of that exact phrase, translated from polish to english, with 'embrace' appearing 0/9 times. Wiktionary itself correctly lists this word as second-person singular imperative of całować, which is then listed as a verb meaning "to kiss." The point is surely made.
This folly is repeated with the phrase "nie pocałowałbyś," (third last line) which translates from polish into english as "you wouldn't kiss". Again, it is rendered as embrace. Again, any casual Wikipedian without the desire to look up original polish is led astray.
Once more this incorrect translation rears its head. Chopin, rather poetically says "Dziś Ci się śnić będzie, że mnie całujesz", meaning, "today you will dream that you are kissing me." 'całujesz' is just a conjugation of 'całuj', which has been tackled. This basic error has really become inexcusable at this point, and quite apart from anything, it has deadened all of the poetry originally present in the text.
I think it's pretty clear what has happened here. Alan Walker respects Chopin greatly, and believes that when he wrote these letters he must have been (in Alan's own words) "twisted in the mind" and in a state of "psychological confusion". Thus, he has toned down some of the language, and in doing so, he has made basic errors of fact which I have illustrated. Fine - but there are other translations, and it is ridiculous not to use them over one that is, in a literal sense, misinformation, taken from a source which repeatedly questions Chopin's mental state in a spurious manner. Please let's discuss alternatives. Tqger ( talk) 14:38, 15 February 2024 (UTC)
I will go and wash. Don‘t kiss me now, because I haven‘t yet washed. You? Even if I were to rub myself with Byzantine oils, you still wouldn‘t kiss me, unless I compelled you to do so with magnetism. There is some sort of force in nature. Today you will dream that you‘re kissing me. I have to pay you back for the nasty dream you brought me last night.
References
{{
cite book}}
: CS1 maint: extra punctuation (
link) CS1 maint: multiple names: authors list (
link) CS1 maint: numeric names: authors list (
link)
Apologies for not knowing the correct way to flag this but the 3rd chopin photo is a complete forgery. It is a photoshop manipulated crop of the following painting and should be removed. It is a hoax
https://ibb.co/1myysGj 2600:1702:B20:5A50:890F:E1BD:484D:C3DB ( talk) 20:34, 18 July 2024 (UTC)
I need a consensus that a birthplace can be defined as historical places, where Chopin was born in Żelazowa Wola, Duchy of Warsaw (now Poland). 49.150.14.10 ( talk) 03:17, 20 July 2024 (UTC)
![]() | There is a request, submitted by User:EleniXDD, for an audio version of this article to be created. For further information, see WikiProject Spoken Wikipedia. The rationale behind the request is: "Featured article and an important subject in music". |
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Frédéric Chopin article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Archives:
Index,
1,
2,
3,
4,
5,
6,
7,
8,
9,
10,
11,
12,
13,
14,
15,
16,
17,
18,
19,
20,
21,
22,
23,
24,
25,
26Auto-archiving period: 60 days
![]() |
Frequently asked questions Q1: Why is Chopin described as a "Polish composer" in the lead (first paragraph)?
A1: There is a consensus between Wikipedians that the majority of
secondary
reliable sources refer to Chopin as solely a Polish composer. See
the last request for comment for further information. Q2: Why doesn't this article include more information on Chopin's sexuality?
A2: Opinions on Chopin's sexuality, particularly as to whether he was homosexual, are equivocal or absent in the majority of
secondary
reliable sources. Since this article is a
featured article, it is required to utilize only "high quality" sources; such sources do not generally give a direct declaration on whether Chopin was homosexual or not. See
this request for comment for further information. |
![]() | Frédéric Chopin is a featured article; it (or a previous version of it) has been identified as one of the best articles produced by the Wikipedia community. Even so, if you can update or improve it, please do so. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
![]() | This article appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page as Today's featured article on October 17, 2014. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
![]() | This ![]() It is of interest to multiple WikiProjects. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Frédéric is the French spelling of Frederick. Since Chopin is referred to as solely Polish in the article instead of being Franco-Polish, I think it is more appropriate to rename the article to Fryderyk Chopin. Lebaophuoc2005 ( talk) 19:15, 16 November 2023 (UTC)
The letter quoted from Chopin to Tytus Woyciechowski is translated poorly. The scholar (Alan Walker) who translated it very clearly transposed his personal view about the implication of the letter onto the literal text itself, a practice he has been extensively criticised for in many languages. There are glaring errors in the text that become evident when contrasted to the original polish. For example:
In the second sentence, the word "całuj" is rendered as embrace. "całuj" is a polish word meaning "kiss". It is never translated as embrace. The phrase used in the letter (see last paragraph, 4th last line) is "nie całuj mnie", meaning "don't kiss me". Here is a webpage with nine examples of that exact phrase, translated from polish to english, with 'embrace' appearing 0/9 times. Wiktionary itself correctly lists this word as second-person singular imperative of całować, which is then listed as a verb meaning "to kiss." The point is surely made.
This folly is repeated with the phrase "nie pocałowałbyś," (third last line) which translates from polish into english as "you wouldn't kiss". Again, it is rendered as embrace. Again, any casual Wikipedian without the desire to look up original polish is led astray.
Once more this incorrect translation rears its head. Chopin, rather poetically says "Dziś Ci się śnić będzie, że mnie całujesz", meaning, "today you will dream that you are kissing me." 'całujesz' is just a conjugation of 'całuj', which has been tackled. This basic error has really become inexcusable at this point, and quite apart from anything, it has deadened all of the poetry originally present in the text.
I think it's pretty clear what has happened here. Alan Walker respects Chopin greatly, and believes that when he wrote these letters he must have been (in Alan's own words) "twisted in the mind" and in a state of "psychological confusion". Thus, he has toned down some of the language, and in doing so, he has made basic errors of fact which I have illustrated. Fine - but there are other translations, and it is ridiculous not to use them over one that is, in a literal sense, misinformation, taken from a source which repeatedly questions Chopin's mental state in a spurious manner. Please let's discuss alternatives. Tqger ( talk) 14:38, 15 February 2024 (UTC)
I will go and wash. Don‘t kiss me now, because I haven‘t yet washed. You? Even if I were to rub myself with Byzantine oils, you still wouldn‘t kiss me, unless I compelled you to do so with magnetism. There is some sort of force in nature. Today you will dream that you‘re kissing me. I have to pay you back for the nasty dream you brought me last night.
References
{{
cite book}}
: CS1 maint: extra punctuation (
link) CS1 maint: multiple names: authors list (
link) CS1 maint: numeric names: authors list (
link)
Apologies for not knowing the correct way to flag this but the 3rd chopin photo is a complete forgery. It is a photoshop manipulated crop of the following painting and should be removed. It is a hoax
https://ibb.co/1myysGj 2600:1702:B20:5A50:890F:E1BD:484D:C3DB ( talk) 20:34, 18 July 2024 (UTC)
I need a consensus that a birthplace can be defined as historical places, where Chopin was born in Żelazowa Wola, Duchy of Warsaw (now Poland). 49.150.14.10 ( talk) 03:17, 20 July 2024 (UTC)