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Cheers.— cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 02:30, 29 February 2016 (UTC)
I've removed a blockquote from sex educator Amy Andre as non-RS. The quote purportedly is from American Sexuality Magazine, which no longer exists and does not appear to have left an archive online, and there's nothing about her or this article at CREGS, which absorbed the National Sexuality Research Center, which published the magazine. The cached link did not mention the magazine, and said solely that it was published by the NSRC, the successor organization of which has no record of it or her. She's just a blogger with no WIkipedia article about her, and by definition, that is non-RS. Surely, with all that's been written about the movie, some notable author / educator has written something thoughtful about it. -- Tenebrae ( talk) 23:33, 9 March 2016 (UTC)
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Reviewer: Aircorn ( talk · contribs) 02:24, 5 October 2020 (UTC)
Willing to take this on in the next few days. Can I just confirm that Lizzy150 is free to answer any queries? AIRcorn (talk) 02:24, 5 October 2020 (UTC)
Jack broaches the subject of creating a life with Ennis on a small ranch, but Ennis, haunted by a childhood memory of the torture and murder of two men suspected of homosexual behavior as well as unwilling to abandon his family, refuses.This sentence is a little awkward.
Gyllenhaal also reacted to the script positively; when he discovered that Lee and friend Ledger were attached to the project, Gyllenhaal signed on.This makes it sound like the main reason he signed on was because of Lee and Ledger. Is this correct. Also isn't the comma superfluous?
a masculine and homophobic characterIf this is the case it probably should be brought up in the plot section somehow
To prepare, Ledger researched his character's personal traits, Wyoming and Texas accentsThis doesn't make sense to me. Do you mean personal traits plus Wyoming and Texas accents?
She was wearing a ball gown and hairpiece "that was way over the top", but still felt "centred and focused".The hairpiece was centered and focused or she was?
The fictional "Brokeback Mountain" was named to suggest a physical feature, after a term usedor a swaybacked horse or mule.Not sure what is meant by "to suggest a physical feature"?
Initially, Alberta's environmental department prohibited the crew from bringing domestic sheep into the countryI don't think this is true. Canada has sheep, it seems they didn't want the sheep in the Rockies.
Over the Christmas weekend, and beginning of January 2006, film expanded into more domestic theaters.Grammar
falsely accusing him of a repellent form of bigotry".Not clear what they accused him of?
Brokeback Mountain was listed on the following notable critics' top-ten lists.Should clarify that this is 2005 lists. The list is very American centric. I am actually not sure the list itself is due. Maybe better to add it too the paragraph above and say something along the lines that it was the top ranked film of 2005 by .........
Audiences and the cast and crew disagreed as to whether the film's two protagonists were homosexual, bisexual, heterosexual, or should be free of any sexual orientation classification.I am not sure audiences disagreeing is notable. They tend to disagree on a lot of films. Maybe critics?
@ Lizzy150: I think this covers most things. Don't feel like you have to do everything I have suggested (although I do appreciate replies to any points I make, even if it is just to disagree with them). Ping or drop a talk page note when you are ready for me to have another look at it or you want further clarification. AIRcorn (talk) 05:27, 8 October 2020 (UTC)
And while I understand that Ennis taking his time to smell two shirts deserves a whole sentence in a plot summary for this particular film, I don't think it is appropriate to impose a synopsis policy wherein extremely detailed plot descriptions such as the aforementioned one have to coexist with extremely vague and superficial ones that offer next to no explanation on
I wrote what I thought was an approximation to the above points without engaging in speculation or original research (btw Ennis does visualize a homophobic murder because he'd already seen the aftermath of one as a kid, I'm surprised this has to be explained further). So I'd like to know why a word count slightly larger than 700 has warranted a wholesale reversion. AnyDosMilVint ( talk) 11:02, 10 February 2022 (UTC)
homophobic murder, so I was not alone in that. We hear Ennis tell a story about his childhood memory and later see an unrelated montage in which he envisions Jack being murdered violently without context. While I share your view that the two points are related, the possible homophobic aspect of Ennis's imagination of Jack's death remains a subjective interpretation. Jack and Ennis share a tent because they work on the mountain together. Whoever does whatever makes no difference in how they end up in the tent. The plot does not highlight Jack distancing himself. Lureen's parents almost have nothing to do with Jack's arc with Ennis. Lureen's manner of relaying Jack's death being a factor in whether our interpretation of Ennis's suspicion could be true is once again more POV than plot-related. KyleJoan talk 12:12, 10 February 2022 (UTC)
homophobic murderdoes not make it right. If Ennis envisioned Jack's death as an output of anything other than homophobia then it would have not made sense to materialize his thoughts onscreen because they're not relevant to the plot -- as opposed to the fight Ennis himself picks with a stranger which does make sense, because Ennis does have a history, shown onscreen, of venting his frustrations violently. The rules of economy dictate that if Ennis does not believe Lureen's story and imagines a violent death, it will connect directly to his own childhood memory. This should be obvious to anyone who understood the film and has an inkling of visual syntax. Like I said, I'm surprised this needs an explanation.
When I look at the differences between what I believe to be the two most recent versions that you both preferred, I'm left feeling that the shorter version is generally better than the longer one. I don't think it's necessary to spell things out to the reader to the degree the longer summary does. For instance, readers don't need to know what the designated sleeping arrangements are (especially that they switch who's going up to the mountain), nor is Jack's relationship with Lureen's father especially pertinent (BTW 'stepfather' should be 'father-in-law' in any case).
It's not explicitly clear that Ennis imagines Jack being murdered due to homophobia (though it's likely); I also wonder whether we really need to spell that out in any case given the context. I don't really mind if Lureen's description of events is described as perfunctory, though I wonder whether that's making implications that we shouldn't be making (i.e. there could be various reasons why Lureen's delivery is perfunctory...among them, that she's traumatized by his passing).
Hope this is helpful. DonIago ( talk) 17:32, 11 February 2022 (UTC)
the only reason ... for the inclusion of that sceneis. We simply write what transpires. You never mentioned
lack of weight balance, so it's news to me that this is suddenly an issue. Regarding
shoddy writing, you can take that up with the GA nominator and reviewer that ensured this article met the GA criteria. I'm sure they'll appreciate the compliment. KyleJoan talk 18:19, 11 February 2022 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Brokeback Mountain article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Archives:
1,
2,
3,
4,
5,
6Auto-archiving period: 90 days
![]() |
![]() | The subject of this article is controversial and content may be in dispute. When updating the article, be bold, but not reckless. Feel free to try to improve the article, but don't take it personally if your changes are reversed; instead, come here to the talk page to discuss them. Content must be written from a neutral point of view. Include citations when adding content and consider tagging or removing unsourced information. |
![]() | Brokeback Mountain has been listed as one of the Media and drama good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||
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![]() | This ![]() It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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![]() | This article was the subject of an educational assignment in Spring 2016. Further details were available on the "Education Program: Queen Mary, University of London/Research Methods (Film) (Spring 2015)" page, which is now unavailable on the wiki. |
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Cheers.— cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 02:30, 29 February 2016 (UTC)
I've removed a blockquote from sex educator Amy Andre as non-RS. The quote purportedly is from American Sexuality Magazine, which no longer exists and does not appear to have left an archive online, and there's nothing about her or this article at CREGS, which absorbed the National Sexuality Research Center, which published the magazine. The cached link did not mention the magazine, and said solely that it was published by the NSRC, the successor organization of which has no record of it or her. She's just a blogger with no WIkipedia article about her, and by definition, that is non-RS. Surely, with all that's been written about the movie, some notable author / educator has written something thoughtful about it. -- Tenebrae ( talk) 23:33, 9 March 2016 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Brokeback Mountain. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
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This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
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(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 13:03, 30 December 2017 (UTC)
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Reviewer: Aircorn ( talk · contribs) 02:24, 5 October 2020 (UTC)
Willing to take this on in the next few days. Can I just confirm that Lizzy150 is free to answer any queries? AIRcorn (talk) 02:24, 5 October 2020 (UTC)
Jack broaches the subject of creating a life with Ennis on a small ranch, but Ennis, haunted by a childhood memory of the torture and murder of two men suspected of homosexual behavior as well as unwilling to abandon his family, refuses.This sentence is a little awkward.
Gyllenhaal also reacted to the script positively; when he discovered that Lee and friend Ledger were attached to the project, Gyllenhaal signed on.This makes it sound like the main reason he signed on was because of Lee and Ledger. Is this correct. Also isn't the comma superfluous?
a masculine and homophobic characterIf this is the case it probably should be brought up in the plot section somehow
To prepare, Ledger researched his character's personal traits, Wyoming and Texas accentsThis doesn't make sense to me. Do you mean personal traits plus Wyoming and Texas accents?
She was wearing a ball gown and hairpiece "that was way over the top", but still felt "centred and focused".The hairpiece was centered and focused or she was?
The fictional "Brokeback Mountain" was named to suggest a physical feature, after a term usedor a swaybacked horse or mule.Not sure what is meant by "to suggest a physical feature"?
Initially, Alberta's environmental department prohibited the crew from bringing domestic sheep into the countryI don't think this is true. Canada has sheep, it seems they didn't want the sheep in the Rockies.
Over the Christmas weekend, and beginning of January 2006, film expanded into more domestic theaters.Grammar
falsely accusing him of a repellent form of bigotry".Not clear what they accused him of?
Brokeback Mountain was listed on the following notable critics' top-ten lists.Should clarify that this is 2005 lists. The list is very American centric. I am actually not sure the list itself is due. Maybe better to add it too the paragraph above and say something along the lines that it was the top ranked film of 2005 by .........
Audiences and the cast and crew disagreed as to whether the film's two protagonists were homosexual, bisexual, heterosexual, or should be free of any sexual orientation classification.I am not sure audiences disagreeing is notable. They tend to disagree on a lot of films. Maybe critics?
@ Lizzy150: I think this covers most things. Don't feel like you have to do everything I have suggested (although I do appreciate replies to any points I make, even if it is just to disagree with them). Ping or drop a talk page note when you are ready for me to have another look at it or you want further clarification. AIRcorn (talk) 05:27, 8 October 2020 (UTC)
And while I understand that Ennis taking his time to smell two shirts deserves a whole sentence in a plot summary for this particular film, I don't think it is appropriate to impose a synopsis policy wherein extremely detailed plot descriptions such as the aforementioned one have to coexist with extremely vague and superficial ones that offer next to no explanation on
I wrote what I thought was an approximation to the above points without engaging in speculation or original research (btw Ennis does visualize a homophobic murder because he'd already seen the aftermath of one as a kid, I'm surprised this has to be explained further). So I'd like to know why a word count slightly larger than 700 has warranted a wholesale reversion. AnyDosMilVint ( talk) 11:02, 10 February 2022 (UTC)
homophobic murder, so I was not alone in that. We hear Ennis tell a story about his childhood memory and later see an unrelated montage in which he envisions Jack being murdered violently without context. While I share your view that the two points are related, the possible homophobic aspect of Ennis's imagination of Jack's death remains a subjective interpretation. Jack and Ennis share a tent because they work on the mountain together. Whoever does whatever makes no difference in how they end up in the tent. The plot does not highlight Jack distancing himself. Lureen's parents almost have nothing to do with Jack's arc with Ennis. Lureen's manner of relaying Jack's death being a factor in whether our interpretation of Ennis's suspicion could be true is once again more POV than plot-related. KyleJoan talk 12:12, 10 February 2022 (UTC)
homophobic murderdoes not make it right. If Ennis envisioned Jack's death as an output of anything other than homophobia then it would have not made sense to materialize his thoughts onscreen because they're not relevant to the plot -- as opposed to the fight Ennis himself picks with a stranger which does make sense, because Ennis does have a history, shown onscreen, of venting his frustrations violently. The rules of economy dictate that if Ennis does not believe Lureen's story and imagines a violent death, it will connect directly to his own childhood memory. This should be obvious to anyone who understood the film and has an inkling of visual syntax. Like I said, I'm surprised this needs an explanation.
When I look at the differences between what I believe to be the two most recent versions that you both preferred, I'm left feeling that the shorter version is generally better than the longer one. I don't think it's necessary to spell things out to the reader to the degree the longer summary does. For instance, readers don't need to know what the designated sleeping arrangements are (especially that they switch who's going up to the mountain), nor is Jack's relationship with Lureen's father especially pertinent (BTW 'stepfather' should be 'father-in-law' in any case).
It's not explicitly clear that Ennis imagines Jack being murdered due to homophobia (though it's likely); I also wonder whether we really need to spell that out in any case given the context. I don't really mind if Lureen's description of events is described as perfunctory, though I wonder whether that's making implications that we shouldn't be making (i.e. there could be various reasons why Lureen's delivery is perfunctory...among them, that she's traumatized by his passing).
Hope this is helpful. DonIago ( talk) 17:32, 11 February 2022 (UTC)
the only reason ... for the inclusion of that sceneis. We simply write what transpires. You never mentioned
lack of weight balance, so it's news to me that this is suddenly an issue. Regarding
shoddy writing, you can take that up with the GA nominator and reviewer that ensured this article met the GA criteria. I'm sure they'll appreciate the compliment. KyleJoan talk 18:19, 11 February 2022 (UTC)