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Bert L. Stevens was nominated for deletion. The discussion was closed on 13 March 2015 with a consensus to merge. Its contents were merged into Barbara Stanwyck. The original page is now a redirect to this page. For the contribution history and old versions of the redirected article, please see its history; for its talk page, see here. |
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The contents of the Bert L. Stevens page were merged into Barbara Stanwyck on 13 March 2015. For the contribution history and old versions of the redirected page, please see its history; for the discussion at that location, see its talk page. |
... (He and Stanwyck eventually became estranged.) ... He being Frank, the husband, or Dion, the son? Can someone who knows clarify the sentence? 74.104.110.56 17:47, 16 July 2007 (UTC)
Somebody has been at it again, adding "lesbian" data. Did Stanwyck even meet Greta Garbo?? I have never read of them even being in the same room from a legitimate source. Somebody at wikipedia really needs to watch some of the entries on classic stars because there are people posting all sorts of gossip as fact.
From an interview with Victoria Wilson in Backlots: "I had one ambition for my biography of Barbara Stanwyck, and that was to write a book that reflected the truth about my subject and her world, regardless of what it was. I have written quite detailed portraits of Stanwyck’s two marriages; the first to Frank Fay; the second to Robert Taylor. Each marriage was complex and came about because of complex reasons – and stayed in tact because of equally complicated reasons; neither marriage came about because of homosexuality. I asked many people who would have a somewhat informed inkling about Robert Taylor’s sexuality, people who knew him at the time, or would have heard about the (then, of necessity) underground truth of his sexuality and nowhere did I come across any hint of his being gay, including interviewing Harry Hay, founder in 1950 of the Mattachine Society. If anyone would have known, or heard about the truth of Taylor’s sexuality over the years, it would have been Harry Hay. . ."
"The last thing Metro wanted was for Robert Taylor to be married, until they did, and it was not as a cover up for his sexuality. When people read the book they will see in detail how Stanwyck and Taylor came together, and what it did for both people; how it helped both and changed both. Volume Two portrays the shape of the marriage and how and why it ultimately fell apart, which, as in real life, happened over time and grew out of a set of subtle and complicated circumstances – and out of two people changing and changing out of different needs at different stages of their life, and their work." Chandler75 19:21, 11 September 2015
This is a rumor, it should not be stated as a fact. The allegation does not come from individuals who knew Stanwyck personally but a handful of "books" with authors of questionable accuracy (see the reviews on amazon.com for various comments from multiple readers questioning the accuracy of the books in question.)
I completely agree - it's a widely enough reported rumour for it to be included in the article as a rumour. This needs to be fixed. There are other examples in other articles - for example in the Boze Hadleigh article, Agnes Moorehead is identified as a lesbian, rather than as a rumoured lesbian. We shouldn't be taking such liberties, simply because the dead can't be libeled. I think Hadleigh's books should be viewed with extreme scepticism as source material. Rossrs 11:04, 5 January 2006 (UTC)
Thank you! I have no problem with acknowledging the homosexuality or bisexuality of stars when it's a given fact (Marlene Dietrich, Montgomery Clift) or there is considerable proof despite denials (James Dean) but I don't believe every rumor means the story is true. Stanwyck should also be taken off of the "Lesbian actors" link at the bottom because at the very least she was bisexual, given her marriages and acknowledged affairs with Robert Wagner, Frank Capra, and other men.
In my effort to merge the now-deleted list from the article Gay icon to the Gay icons category, I have added this page to the category. I engaged in this effort as a "human script", adding everyone from the list to the category, bypassing the fact-checking stage. That is what I am relying on you to do. Please check the article Gay icon and make a judgment as to whether this person or group fits the category. By distributing this task from the regular editors of one article to the regular editors of several articles, I believe that the task of fact-checking this information can be expedited. Thank you very much. Philwelch 22:16, 24 Mar 2005 (UTC)
I have no problem with Stanwyck being added on the basis of her performance in Double Indemnity. It was a brilliant yet campy performance. And Stanwyck always had a tougher-than-nails presence.
What I have a MAJOR issue with is the emphasis being placed here on her sexuality rather than her career. She had a career spanning sixty years and yet the issue of Robert Taylor prevails.
Cut me a break...are we discussing Barbara Stanwyck's career or her sexuality?
Well it is true that Stanwyck was most likely a lesbian, the title of "gay icon" has nothing to do with her sexual orientation, but the sexual orientation of her fansbase.
Stanwyck was at least bisexual, she was known to have had relationships with Helen Ferguson, Joan Crawford and others. Her co-star Capucine indicated that Stanwyck, although always discreet, had a female lover while the film "Walk on the Wild Side", which also starred Jane Fonda. Clifton Webb referred to Stanwyck as "My Favorite American Lesbian". And I don't think anyone ever claimed that Garbo and Stanwyck were lovers. - 216.194.58.195 18:42, 25 June 2006 (UTC)
McJonathan-- I am not clear what your edit summary meant, but I have rv User:Demiurge's vandalism. - 216.194.4.2 03:23, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
I disagree. No-one knows for sure that Stanwyck was bisexual, and as she is not alive, people are able to make up anything they want about her. Just like Cary Grant warned his wife and daughter, as soon as he was dead, people would take up the most popular and bad rumors about him; either he was gay or cheap. [LD] —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 216.175.77.189 ( talk • contribs) 15:31, 10 September 2006 (UTC)
The only mention of the possibility in the article is one single quote by Clifton Webb, which is apparently secondhand and may or may not have been tongue-in-cheek. There is no -- zero! -- other reference to homosexuality in the article, and yet this article is included in Category:Lesbian actors. Er, what gives? Since no significant basis is offered in the personal article for the idea that she was lesbian or bisexual, I am taking it on myself to remove this article from Category:Lesbian actors. If anyone wishes to contest that removal, I expect to see both sources for the assertion that she had any same-sex involvements at all and an explanation of why she should be in Category:Lesbian actors rather than Category:Bisexual American actors. -- 7Kim 08:17, 27 May 2007 (UTC)
I'm a bit tired of actors and actresses being branded as "gay", "lesbian", or "bisexual". I have never been able to find out exactly how that was supposed to influence their abilities to act. We're not told about their hair colour, or eye colour, so why does it have to be revealed that either there was a rumour or an opinion that anything to do with a sexual practice was important enough to be mentioned? Is it to reassure gay people that gaiety was going on long ago among celebrities, or is it a valid way of shattering an image? I don't really care who did what with what to whom, as I've just simply loved to watch Barbara Stanwyck in a movie, as that was always an interesting story, with a woman playing a great part. Bette Dash. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.228.96.16 ( talk) 15:38, 9 March 2008 (UTC)
Something should be said of Stanwyck's involvement with the Motion Picture Alliance for the Preservation of American Ideals. I'll try to add some info after more research, but if anyone knows anything about this... - AKeen 07:29, 28 December 2006 (UTC)
Per debate and discussion re: assessment of the approximate 100 top priority articles of the project, this article has been included as a top priority article. Wildhartlivie ( talk) 07:35, 1 March 2008 (UTC)
Bob Kane, the co-creator of Batman was a film producer? -- Mike Castle ( talk) 20:50, 29 April 2008 (UTC)
1)
HarveyCarter (
talk ·
contribs) and all of his sockpuppets are EXPRESSLY banned for life.
2) Be on the look out for any edits from these IP addresses:
There are numerous claims made in this article which are not referenced, so I am putting a tag on it. The first person to ask me for examples will be requested to read the article. Kaiwhakahaere ( talk) 08:08, 9 February 2009 (UTC)
As a point of information, the background color and size of text in the quote box added in the career section is not legible for some persons with vision disabilities and color distinguishing problems. Wildhartlivie ( talk) 02:53, 17 June 2009 (UTC)
I think I remember that Stanwyck and Taylor both testified at the House Unamerican Activities hearings and named names. If I'm right, it's a highly relevant, and illuminating, historical fact that ought to be recorded in ther bio here. Any thoughts?
I had no idea. If true, it was incredibly courageous of them. Fairydogmother ( talk) 19:31, 12 May 2019 (UTC)
I've always understood that her name was pronounced "Stannick", but in recent decades people seem to be more commonly pronouncing it as "Stanwick". If I'm right then I think there should be a pronunciation entry after her name at the beginning of the article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.194.105.247 ( talk) 13:01, 15 March 2012 (UTC)
The infobox already lists "Ruby Catherine Stevens" as a birth name as well as the name appearing in the lede and in the first section on her early life. Barbara Stanwyck was more than a stage name, it was the name which was most closely associated with her. Only once in her later life did she revert to the use of her birth name. FWiW , see Common names. Examples given include: Bill Clinton and Mother Theresa, Bzuk ( talk) 21:04, 23 October 2012 (UTC).
Hi my name is theodore and I currently along with my wife live in a home in Dallas Texas I've been told was previously owned by Barbara Stanwyck, can anyone confirm this for me by way of history facts. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.185.248.73 ( talk) 01:00, 7 December 2012 (UTC)
I restored the summary list of Stanwyck's films because it is helpful to readers who print the PDF articles or simply want to scan the actor's history in a convenient way without forcing them to a separate article. Please note that WP:SIZE applies to "readable prose" in the main body of the text and excludes "material such as footnotes and reference sections ("see also", "external links", bibliography, etc.), diagrams and images, tables and lists, Wikilinks and external URLs, and formatting and mark-up." Regards, Bede735 ( talk) 00:00, 8 August 2014 (UTC)
This should definitely have a legacy section, no? She's terribly underrated. -- Monochrome_ Monitor 04:58, 27 November 2015 (UTC)
I dont understand why these talented, gifted actors, who speak with an undeniable Brooklyn accent and have undeniably Jewish features, feel the need to "change" their ethnicity, their heritage. Why not embrace and celebrate these things? It's kind of off-putting, as if they fear and don't trust the rest of us. Fairydogmother ( talk) 19:29, 12 May 2019 (UTC)
The highlighted part of this sentence is problematic. The Oscars for acting are voted on by eligible members of the Academy. Whoever these people who think that she should have won are, are they saying that the voters voted the wrong way? In a vote where one is free to choose from among all the nominees, what is the definition of a "correct vote" or a "wrong vote"? Answer: There's no such thing as either of those creatures. The vote was what it was. Any adverse commentary on that result is just sour grapes, and it is not encyclopedic and we should not be including it.
There was similar commentary when John Wayne won Best Actor for True Grit, only this time it was to the effect that he should NOT have won, and the voters only voted for him out of affection for his whole career in Westerns, rather than for any particular merit for that one film. But again, the vote was what it was, and anyone's opinion doesn't change anything and is irrelevant. -- Jack of Oz [pleasantries] 22:54, 16 June 2020 (UTC)
inurl:fullcredits site:www.imdb.com "Barbara Stanwyck" "Bert Stevens"
I just added a paragraph about her pre-Code work in the correct place chronologically in the Film career section, but there's a problem: it mentions Double Indemnity, which isn't described until later in the section. Any thoughts? -- Pete Best Beatles ( talk) 06:43, 19 February 2022 (UTC)
The part she played but rather her real life persona!! 68.117.44.65 ( talk) 19:11, 19 February 2022 (UTC)
Why would anyone confuse her with Barbara Hershey ? Just because she is named Barbara ? -- Beardo ( talk) 10:38, 9 December 2023 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Barbara Stanwyck article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Bert L. Stevens was nominated for deletion. The discussion was closed on 13 March 2015 with a consensus to merge. Its contents were merged into Barbara Stanwyck. The original page is now a redirect to this page. For the contribution history and old versions of the redirected article, please see its history; for its talk page, see here. |
This
level-4 vital article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
The contents of the Bert L. Stevens page were merged into Barbara Stanwyck on 13 March 2015. For the contribution history and old versions of the redirected page, please see its history; for the discussion at that location, see its talk page. |
... (He and Stanwyck eventually became estranged.) ... He being Frank, the husband, or Dion, the son? Can someone who knows clarify the sentence? 74.104.110.56 17:47, 16 July 2007 (UTC)
Somebody has been at it again, adding "lesbian" data. Did Stanwyck even meet Greta Garbo?? I have never read of them even being in the same room from a legitimate source. Somebody at wikipedia really needs to watch some of the entries on classic stars because there are people posting all sorts of gossip as fact.
From an interview with Victoria Wilson in Backlots: "I had one ambition for my biography of Barbara Stanwyck, and that was to write a book that reflected the truth about my subject and her world, regardless of what it was. I have written quite detailed portraits of Stanwyck’s two marriages; the first to Frank Fay; the second to Robert Taylor. Each marriage was complex and came about because of complex reasons – and stayed in tact because of equally complicated reasons; neither marriage came about because of homosexuality. I asked many people who would have a somewhat informed inkling about Robert Taylor’s sexuality, people who knew him at the time, or would have heard about the (then, of necessity) underground truth of his sexuality and nowhere did I come across any hint of his being gay, including interviewing Harry Hay, founder in 1950 of the Mattachine Society. If anyone would have known, or heard about the truth of Taylor’s sexuality over the years, it would have been Harry Hay. . ."
"The last thing Metro wanted was for Robert Taylor to be married, until they did, and it was not as a cover up for his sexuality. When people read the book they will see in detail how Stanwyck and Taylor came together, and what it did for both people; how it helped both and changed both. Volume Two portrays the shape of the marriage and how and why it ultimately fell apart, which, as in real life, happened over time and grew out of a set of subtle and complicated circumstances – and out of two people changing and changing out of different needs at different stages of their life, and their work." Chandler75 19:21, 11 September 2015
This is a rumor, it should not be stated as a fact. The allegation does not come from individuals who knew Stanwyck personally but a handful of "books" with authors of questionable accuracy (see the reviews on amazon.com for various comments from multiple readers questioning the accuracy of the books in question.)
I completely agree - it's a widely enough reported rumour for it to be included in the article as a rumour. This needs to be fixed. There are other examples in other articles - for example in the Boze Hadleigh article, Agnes Moorehead is identified as a lesbian, rather than as a rumoured lesbian. We shouldn't be taking such liberties, simply because the dead can't be libeled. I think Hadleigh's books should be viewed with extreme scepticism as source material. Rossrs 11:04, 5 January 2006 (UTC)
Thank you! I have no problem with acknowledging the homosexuality or bisexuality of stars when it's a given fact (Marlene Dietrich, Montgomery Clift) or there is considerable proof despite denials (James Dean) but I don't believe every rumor means the story is true. Stanwyck should also be taken off of the "Lesbian actors" link at the bottom because at the very least she was bisexual, given her marriages and acknowledged affairs with Robert Wagner, Frank Capra, and other men.
In my effort to merge the now-deleted list from the article Gay icon to the Gay icons category, I have added this page to the category. I engaged in this effort as a "human script", adding everyone from the list to the category, bypassing the fact-checking stage. That is what I am relying on you to do. Please check the article Gay icon and make a judgment as to whether this person or group fits the category. By distributing this task from the regular editors of one article to the regular editors of several articles, I believe that the task of fact-checking this information can be expedited. Thank you very much. Philwelch 22:16, 24 Mar 2005 (UTC)
I have no problem with Stanwyck being added on the basis of her performance in Double Indemnity. It was a brilliant yet campy performance. And Stanwyck always had a tougher-than-nails presence.
What I have a MAJOR issue with is the emphasis being placed here on her sexuality rather than her career. She had a career spanning sixty years and yet the issue of Robert Taylor prevails.
Cut me a break...are we discussing Barbara Stanwyck's career or her sexuality?
Well it is true that Stanwyck was most likely a lesbian, the title of "gay icon" has nothing to do with her sexual orientation, but the sexual orientation of her fansbase.
Stanwyck was at least bisexual, she was known to have had relationships with Helen Ferguson, Joan Crawford and others. Her co-star Capucine indicated that Stanwyck, although always discreet, had a female lover while the film "Walk on the Wild Side", which also starred Jane Fonda. Clifton Webb referred to Stanwyck as "My Favorite American Lesbian". And I don't think anyone ever claimed that Garbo and Stanwyck were lovers. - 216.194.58.195 18:42, 25 June 2006 (UTC)
McJonathan-- I am not clear what your edit summary meant, but I have rv User:Demiurge's vandalism. - 216.194.4.2 03:23, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
I disagree. No-one knows for sure that Stanwyck was bisexual, and as she is not alive, people are able to make up anything they want about her. Just like Cary Grant warned his wife and daughter, as soon as he was dead, people would take up the most popular and bad rumors about him; either he was gay or cheap. [LD] —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 216.175.77.189 ( talk • contribs) 15:31, 10 September 2006 (UTC)
The only mention of the possibility in the article is one single quote by Clifton Webb, which is apparently secondhand and may or may not have been tongue-in-cheek. There is no -- zero! -- other reference to homosexuality in the article, and yet this article is included in Category:Lesbian actors. Er, what gives? Since no significant basis is offered in the personal article for the idea that she was lesbian or bisexual, I am taking it on myself to remove this article from Category:Lesbian actors. If anyone wishes to contest that removal, I expect to see both sources for the assertion that she had any same-sex involvements at all and an explanation of why she should be in Category:Lesbian actors rather than Category:Bisexual American actors. -- 7Kim 08:17, 27 May 2007 (UTC)
I'm a bit tired of actors and actresses being branded as "gay", "lesbian", or "bisexual". I have never been able to find out exactly how that was supposed to influence their abilities to act. We're not told about their hair colour, or eye colour, so why does it have to be revealed that either there was a rumour or an opinion that anything to do with a sexual practice was important enough to be mentioned? Is it to reassure gay people that gaiety was going on long ago among celebrities, or is it a valid way of shattering an image? I don't really care who did what with what to whom, as I've just simply loved to watch Barbara Stanwyck in a movie, as that was always an interesting story, with a woman playing a great part. Bette Dash. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.228.96.16 ( talk) 15:38, 9 March 2008 (UTC)
Something should be said of Stanwyck's involvement with the Motion Picture Alliance for the Preservation of American Ideals. I'll try to add some info after more research, but if anyone knows anything about this... - AKeen 07:29, 28 December 2006 (UTC)
Per debate and discussion re: assessment of the approximate 100 top priority articles of the project, this article has been included as a top priority article. Wildhartlivie ( talk) 07:35, 1 March 2008 (UTC)
Bob Kane, the co-creator of Batman was a film producer? -- Mike Castle ( talk) 20:50, 29 April 2008 (UTC)
1)
HarveyCarter (
talk ·
contribs) and all of his sockpuppets are EXPRESSLY banned for life.
2) Be on the look out for any edits from these IP addresses:
There are numerous claims made in this article which are not referenced, so I am putting a tag on it. The first person to ask me for examples will be requested to read the article. Kaiwhakahaere ( talk) 08:08, 9 February 2009 (UTC)
As a point of information, the background color and size of text in the quote box added in the career section is not legible for some persons with vision disabilities and color distinguishing problems. Wildhartlivie ( talk) 02:53, 17 June 2009 (UTC)
I think I remember that Stanwyck and Taylor both testified at the House Unamerican Activities hearings and named names. If I'm right, it's a highly relevant, and illuminating, historical fact that ought to be recorded in ther bio here. Any thoughts?
I had no idea. If true, it was incredibly courageous of them. Fairydogmother ( talk) 19:31, 12 May 2019 (UTC)
I've always understood that her name was pronounced "Stannick", but in recent decades people seem to be more commonly pronouncing it as "Stanwick". If I'm right then I think there should be a pronunciation entry after her name at the beginning of the article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.194.105.247 ( talk) 13:01, 15 March 2012 (UTC)
The infobox already lists "Ruby Catherine Stevens" as a birth name as well as the name appearing in the lede and in the first section on her early life. Barbara Stanwyck was more than a stage name, it was the name which was most closely associated with her. Only once in her later life did she revert to the use of her birth name. FWiW , see Common names. Examples given include: Bill Clinton and Mother Theresa, Bzuk ( talk) 21:04, 23 October 2012 (UTC).
Hi my name is theodore and I currently along with my wife live in a home in Dallas Texas I've been told was previously owned by Barbara Stanwyck, can anyone confirm this for me by way of history facts. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.185.248.73 ( talk) 01:00, 7 December 2012 (UTC)
I restored the summary list of Stanwyck's films because it is helpful to readers who print the PDF articles or simply want to scan the actor's history in a convenient way without forcing them to a separate article. Please note that WP:SIZE applies to "readable prose" in the main body of the text and excludes "material such as footnotes and reference sections ("see also", "external links", bibliography, etc.), diagrams and images, tables and lists, Wikilinks and external URLs, and formatting and mark-up." Regards, Bede735 ( talk) 00:00, 8 August 2014 (UTC)
This should definitely have a legacy section, no? She's terribly underrated. -- Monochrome_ Monitor 04:58, 27 November 2015 (UTC)
I dont understand why these talented, gifted actors, who speak with an undeniable Brooklyn accent and have undeniably Jewish features, feel the need to "change" their ethnicity, their heritage. Why not embrace and celebrate these things? It's kind of off-putting, as if they fear and don't trust the rest of us. Fairydogmother ( talk) 19:29, 12 May 2019 (UTC)
The highlighted part of this sentence is problematic. The Oscars for acting are voted on by eligible members of the Academy. Whoever these people who think that she should have won are, are they saying that the voters voted the wrong way? In a vote where one is free to choose from among all the nominees, what is the definition of a "correct vote" or a "wrong vote"? Answer: There's no such thing as either of those creatures. The vote was what it was. Any adverse commentary on that result is just sour grapes, and it is not encyclopedic and we should not be including it.
There was similar commentary when John Wayne won Best Actor for True Grit, only this time it was to the effect that he should NOT have won, and the voters only voted for him out of affection for his whole career in Westerns, rather than for any particular merit for that one film. But again, the vote was what it was, and anyone's opinion doesn't change anything and is irrelevant. -- Jack of Oz [pleasantries] 22:54, 16 June 2020 (UTC)
inurl:fullcredits site:www.imdb.com "Barbara Stanwyck" "Bert Stevens"
I just added a paragraph about her pre-Code work in the correct place chronologically in the Film career section, but there's a problem: it mentions Double Indemnity, which isn't described until later in the section. Any thoughts? -- Pete Best Beatles ( talk) 06:43, 19 February 2022 (UTC)
The part she played but rather her real life persona!! 68.117.44.65 ( talk) 19:11, 19 February 2022 (UTC)
Why would anyone confuse her with Barbara Hershey ? Just because she is named Barbara ? -- Beardo ( talk) 10:38, 9 December 2023 (UTC)