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Archive 1 | Archive 2 | Archive 3 | Archive 4 | Archive 5 | Archive 6 |
Should we quote Trump's full statement of Truth Social immediately after the shooting in the aftermath section? Link User:WoodElf 16:18, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
Folks can we at least remove the duplicate? LegalSmeagolian ( talk) 01:25, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
The redirect
2024 assassination attempt has been listed at
redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the
redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at
Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2024 July 15 § 2024 assassination attempt until a consensus is reached.
MSMST1543 (
talk)
02:03, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
So far I've seen news organizations list that the fireman who died took a bullet from the shooter; the other two critically injured are only ever noted as having been shot. Do we have a map showing the locations of the bystanders, and how many bullets were fired into the crowd? I heard quite a few on the video. We're going to get another magic bullet incident where people decide the SS shot the other two bystanders and somehow claim trained SS agents don't know how to handle guns or shoot at a roof. John Moser ( talk) 01:56, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
She had posted negative comments/inappropriate comments about the assassin missing - many RS's reported ... 2603:6080:21F0:6000:6DF4:BA83:E068:136C ( talk) 00:36, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
The source for this sentence doesn't say that: "This was the second attempt at violence during one of his rallies: the first was in 2016, when a man attempted to disarm a security officer at a rally in Las Vegas." Is better source needed appropriate? Or delete? I feel this statement is too broad. There's no way to know how many incidents of violence have occurred at Trump rallies, let alone attempts at violence. It depends on how you define violence. Seananony ( talk) 22:04, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
The International leaders section only includes a list of countries. It seems like it would be better to create a separate article that covers different world leaders and politicians reaction to the attempted assassination. RandomUserGuy1738 ( talk) 22:13, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
The info box should say 2 deaths “including that of the perpetrator”, not “including the perpetrator”. 86.31.178.164 ( talk) 01:49, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
I have been trying to close old requests and respond to questions on here and every time I click on a section-edit link I am ending up at wildly different sections. This has been going on for like five minutes straight. I've got blood coming out of my eyes, blood coming out of my whatever. Some of these archivers are messing things up and putting sections on the wrong archive page! Can we just calm down for a minute. jp× g 🗯️ 04:48, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
There's currently much debate going on about the fair use of copyrighted images of the event. Until such debates are resolved, and in case things are resolved in the 'we can't use images of the event' direction, it would be great if we could get some Wikipedian's artistic representation of the event, a la a courtroom sketch.
I'm afraid I don't have the talent for it myself. If some bold Wikipedian out there felt like making a realistic but artistic sketch of the event, using whatever angle he or she felt represented the thing best, and posted it to the Commons for free use, that would be immensely appreciated. Any Wikipedian out there who feels that he or she has the artistic chops for it, please give it a shot! Such a sketch will probably never be better than a photo, but if we end up unable to use photos, it might just be the next best thing. Joe ( talk) 22:49, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
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Attempted assassination of Donald Trump has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Photograph of Trump pumping his fist after being shot in the ear.
The lead parahraph photograph of Trump should be titled like this . Photograph of Trump pumping his fist after escaping assassination.
Referance
https://edition.cnn.com/politics/live-news/trump-rally-shooting-07-14-24/index.html.
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cd172rp02e0o
https://www.reuters.com/world/us/trump-shooting-raises-questions-about-security-lapses-2024-07-14/
Thanks
ND61F (
talk)
04:41, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
First off, the whole section feels extremely long winded and tangential, exasperated more so by the fact that this is still a developing article. Secondly, the opinion pieces are not only unnecessary but also heavily skewed in a left-wing point-of-view. What I suggest is either the removal of the opinion paragraph entirely, which would not only present a neutral view of the photo but also more than half the length of that section, or an attempt to politically balance said paragraph.
As of now, all five sources cited in this section are left to left-leaning and have a combined political bias of -14.40 to the left according to measurements done by the leading media bias focused website, AllSides. This is an unacceptable bias for a Wikipedia article. Either we need to remedy this by removing further leaning political pieces and adding more centrist takes or we need to balance the political leaning of the story by removing some of the left-leaning op-eds and adding some right-leaning pieces to the article. This much of a political bias appearing on the article of a tragic shooting in which one innocent civilian lost their life and two others are fighting for theirs is an oversight the lengths of which I seriously cannot comprehend.
In short, I suggest for the complete removal or heavy, heavy, modification of the referenced paragraph. Firestorm0718 ( talk) 20:05, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
Does the shirt brand of the perpetrator (in this case, a gun YouTuber) need to be specifically mentioned? Has any reliable source made a connection between the shirt and the act? Much is unclear about affiliations and this seem biased and could needlessly cause backlash against an unrelated third party. Joellaser ( talk) 23:57, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
I reverted this edit:
[1] adding an editorial mentioning a poll indicating 10 percent of those surveyed said that the “use of force is justified to prevent Donald Trump from becoming president.”
. Actually, I think it is an important point, albeit an editorial. But if added, it must be added in context and neutrally. See:
[2]
[3]
[4]
[5]
[6]
O3000, Ret. (
talk)
10:44, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
@ Zacwill: Courtesy ping. O3000, Ret. ( talk) 10:46, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
The article says "he rose with blood on his ear and face and told Secret Service agents that he needed his shoes" and news reports say that he repeatedly asked for his shoes. Why would he not be wearing shoes? Does he take them off to speak or what? This seems to need explanation. Andrew🐉( talk) 08:08, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
Agents start to stand up, lifting Trump.
18:12:33: Trump: “Let me get my shoes, let me get my shoes.”
18:12:35: Male agent 2: “I got you sir, I got you sir.”
18:12:36: Trump: “Let me get my shoes on.”
18:12:37: Another male agent: “hold on, your head is bloody.”
18:12:39: Male agent 2: “Sir we’ve got to move to the car sir.”
18:12:42: Trump: “Let me get my shoes.”
18:12:43: Female agent: “OK, [inaudible].”
18:12:47: Trump: “Wait, wait, wait” then fist pumps to crowd. He mouths “fight” three times – a move met with cheers by the crowd.
This confirms that the shoes were an issue but still doesn't explain why. My best guess is that he may have fancy dress shoes which are not comfortable for long periods of standing so maybe he slips into something more comfortable. As Trump is quite image-conscious, he may have wanted to change back before moving out. But this is all speculation. I'll be looking out for more sources which clarify this ...
Andrew🐉( talk) 18:36, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
There's a picture of one of the shoes here: "Trump’s shoe was left on the stage on the spot where it come off as his Secret Service detail rushed to cover him. He was taken to a local medical facility." -- Jabin Botsford/The Washington Post. This looks to be a black Oxford dress shoe and still seems to be laced up. I wouldn't have thought this would come off so easily but that's what they seem to be saying. Andrew🐉( talk) 21:59, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
Omitted Context: The article does not mention recent calls for civil war from right-wing sources or their trending on social media, which is a significant aspect of the current political climate. [1] [2] Ms.britt ( talk) 00:27, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
Citations: https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2024/07/14/trump-shooting-conspiracy-theories/ https://www.wired.com/story/trump-shooting-far-right-calling-for-violence-war/
References
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Yes, I'm aware that it is in multiple sources, but they all appear to be repeating misinformation from each other.
The Act Blue donation: [7] address is different from the voter registration address: [8]. Titanium Dragon ( talk) 10:16, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
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Attempted assassination of Donald Trump has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Admins can we get the "disputed" tag removed from the $15 dono to Act Blue per the above the dispute is driven by WP:OR and is inconsistent with the diverse WP:RS covering this item. Thanks. 24.125.98.89 ( talk) 12:05, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
Currently the Vucci photo of Trump is under discussion regarding its inclusion and deletion, in the meantime, it would be great if we could get some kind of image to go in the infobox, like what we've got for the Attempted assassination of Ronald Reagan page. How would editors feel about including a low-res crop of one of the many news-feeds that captured the event? It wouldn't have the same commercial overlap concerns as the Vucci photo. Thoughts? Suggestions? Joe ( talk) 21:45, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
A previous version of this page mentioned the attempted assassination of President Ronald Wilson Reagan (I don’t know if this is still on the page). In my opinion, a closer historical parallel whose inclusion would make more sense than Reagan’s is the attempted assassination of Theodore Roosevelt, as this event is more similar to that one than it is to the incident with Reagan. Both the Trump and Roosevelt assassination attempts targeted a former president who was shot during an event for their reelection campaign after about three-and-a-half years out of office. Primal Groudon ( talk) 14:47, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
I'm creating this section in response to the repeated changing of the location of this incident. The shooting happened at the Butler Farm Show fairground which is located in Butler County outside of Butler. However, the state of Pennsylvania, as pointed out to me earlier by @ Dough4872 and @ JWilz12345, is divided into townships. This fairground is located in Connoquenessing Township, Butler County just west of Meridian.
Therefore it seems inappropriate to refer to this as happening within the city of Butler, despite many sources saying it happened in Butler, which is simply because the fairground is located within the Butler metro. So, should we refer to it as have happened west of Meridian, in Connoquenessing Township, or perhaps even just in Butler County? I prefer something along the lines of "Connoquenessing Township west of Meridian" personally although that is a mouthful. Raskuly ( talk) 05:03, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
@ Trorov: Hi! I notice your edit summaries mention a map. Which maps are they? WhisperToMe ( talk) 05:27, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
[...] as most of the Farm Show Grounds is in Connoquenessing Township, which is covered by state police.WhisperToMe ( talk) 16:57, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
The rally was held just outside the city limits,[...], from a local source. WhisperToMe ( talk) 17:14, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
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Title to be changed to the 2024 Atempted assasination of Donald Trump Lufthansa24 ( talk) 17:32, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
The Effects on Trump's public image section is entirely about one photo and is UNDUE and COATRACK. The article is about the assassination attempt, not people's opinions of the photo. If the photo gets sustained attention, then it might warrant inclusion. EvergreenFir (talk) 06:44, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
Iconic or historical images that are themselves the subject of sourced commentary in the article are generally appropriate. Iconic and historical images which are not subject of commentary themselves but significantly aid in illustrating historical events may be used if they meet all aspects of the non-free content criteria, particularly no free alternatives, respect for commercial opportunity, and contextual significance. However, if the image is from a press or photo agency (e.g., AP or Getty Images) and is not itself the subject of critical commentary, it is assumed automatically to fail the "respect for commercial opportunity" test.In this case, the image is from the Associated Press, and if we are going to use this image, the article needs to include sourced commentary from reliable sources making the case that it is iconic or historical. I believe that it is both. The passage of time will show that more clearly, but it is hard for me to visualize some future analysis by historians that concludes, "No, that is neither an iconic nor a historical photo of Trump". Cullen328 ( talk) 07:21, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
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Attempted assassination of Donald Trump has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
This should be added to [[Category:Political violence in the United States]] AuroraANovaUma ^-^ ( talk) 19:43, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
:
Done.
A. Randomdude0000 (
talk)
19:46, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
File:Shooting of Donald Trump.webp is already being cited in the context of political grandstanding.
I have doubts that it even passes WP:NFCC. Can we locate something better? Zaathras ( talk) 00:31, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
@ Mikeblas: removed the map in this diff, and I agree - how is the map not original research? Daniel ( talk) 03:01, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
The redirect
Demolition Ranch has been listed at
redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the
redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at
Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2024 July 15 § Demolition Ranch until a consensus is reached.
C F A
💬
18:43, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
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Just wanted to add a source to the Mark Violets affair: the exclusive interview released by the guy that set up the fake news about the alleged terrorist (moussolinho) to an Italian monthly newspaper: https://rifrazioneprismag.substack.com/p/violigate-parla-moussolinho-la-cosa Loziocold ( talk) 15:34, 16 July 2024 (UTC)
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Please remove the names of the surviving injured victims per WP:BLPNAME. Inclusion of their full names isn't necessary. Estreyeria ( talk) 19:18, 16 July 2024 (UTC)
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Please change this sentence:
Crooks made a donation of $15 to the Progressive Turnout Project (a voter turnout group) through ActBlue (a donation platform for Democrats and progressive organizations).
to:
Crooks gave $15 to a voter turnout group, the Progressive Turnout Project, through a donation platform known as ActBlue, which is used by Democrats and progressive organizations.
Half the sentence is parenthetical phrases; that just seems too much. Also, "made a donation of" is much wordier than "gave". 123.51.107.94 ( talk) 04:36, 17 July 2024 (UTC)
In the paragraph that starts with "Public figures from the Democratic and Republican parties have called for an increase in security for the major candidates in the election. There are no known posts on social media websites or writings indicating his ideology,"
use of "his" is somewhat unclear. I'd recommend changing that pronoun to "the shooter's." Snideology ( talk) 02:26, 17 July 2024 (UTC)
It seems like they keep changing the image back to Vucci's image of Trump. I know it's because of copyright issues. However, I recommend that we soon agree on an image for the info-box we all agree on and like and keep. I'd recommend uploading some images to Wikimedia Commons if possible. But unfortunately, most images of this incident are subjected to copyright. PEPSI697 ( talk) 03:49, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
Recently, an edit was made that added list-defined references, which broke much of the referencing on the page. I oppose converting this to LDR for this reason and, per MOS:CITEVAR, we should continue using the inline template references. I will work to try to restore the content added between the LDR-inserting edit and the reverting edit. — Red-tailed hawk (nest) 03:13, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
According to Butler County district attorney Richard Goldinger, an alleged perpetrator and an audience member were killed.<ref>{{Cite news |title=Butler County District Attorney Richard Goldinger said two people are dead, including an apparent shooter. |url=https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2024/07/13/2024-election-campaign-updates-biden-trump-rally/ |url-status=live |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20240713232323/https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2024/07/13/2024-election-campaign-updates-biden-trump-rally/ |archive-date=July 13, 2024 |access-date=July 13, 2024 |newspaper=[[The Washington Post]]}}</ref> At least one other person is in critical condition.<ref name="casualties">{{Cite news |last1=Stein |first1=Chris |last2=Lawther |first2=Fran |date=July 13, 2024 |title=Donald Trump is 'fine' after being rushed off stage at rally amid possible gunshots – latest updates |url=https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/live/2024/jul/13/trump-rally-gun-shots-pennsylvania-latest-updates |access-date=July 13, 2024 |work=the Guardian |language=en-GB |issn=0261-3077 |archive-date=July 14, 2024 |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20240714015033/https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/live/2024/jul/13/trump-rally-gun-shots-pennsylvania-latest-updates |url-status=live }}</ref><ref name=PowellShelton>{{Cite web|last1=Powell|first1=Tori B.|last2=Shelton|first2=Shania|last3=Meyer|first3=Matt|last4=D'Antonio|first4=Isabelle|last5=Tucker|first5=Emma|last6=Yeung|first6=Jessie|date=July 13, 2024|title=Live updates: Trump injured in shooting at Pennsylvania rally that left at least 1 dead {{!}} CNN Politics|url=https://www.cnn.com/politics/live-news/election-biden-trump-07-13-24/index.html|access-date=July 13, 2024|website=CNN|language=en|archive-date=July 13, 2024|archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20240713222828/https://www.cnn.com/politics/live-news/election-biden-trump-07-13-24/index.html|url-status=live}}</ref> Rep. [[Ronny Jackson]] (R-Texas) told Fox News that his nephew was shot in the neck.<ref>{{Cite web |last=McGraw |first=Meridith |last2=Allison |first2=Natalie |date=July 13, 2024 |title=Trump ‘felt the bullet ripping through the skin’ during campaign rally shooting |url=https://www.politico.com/news/2024/07/13/trump-rushed-off-stage-at-pennsylvania-rally-after-possible-gunfire-00167977 |url-status=live |access-date=July 13, 2024 |website=Politico |archive-date=July 13, 2024 |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20240713235642/https://www.politico.com/news/2024/07/13/trump-rushed-off-stage-at-pennsylvania-rally-after-possible-gunfire-00167977 }}</ref>
<ref>{{Cite web |last=McGraw |first=Meridith |last2=Allison |first2=Natalie |date=July 13, 2024 |title=Trump ‘felt the bullet ripping through the skin’ during campaign rally shooting |url=https://www.politico.com/news/2024/07/13/trump-rushed-off-stage-at-pennsylvania-rally-after-possible-gunfire-00167977 |url-status=live |access-date=July 13, 2024 |website=Politico |archive-date=July 13, 2024 |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20240713235642/https://www.politico.com/news/2024/07/13/trump-rushed-off-stage-at-pennsylvania-rally-after-possible-gunfire-00167977 }}</ref>
<ref>{{Cite web |last = McGraw |first = Meridith |last2 = Allison |first2 = Natalie |date = July 13, 2024 |title = Trump ‘felt the bullet ripping through the skin’ during campaign rally shooting |url = https://www.politico.com/news/2024/07/13/trump-rushed-off-stage-at-pennsylvania-rally-after-possible-gunfire-00167977 |url-status = live |access-date = July 13, 2024 |website = Politico |archive-date = July 13, 2024 |archive-url = https://web.archive.org/web/20240713235642/https://www.politico.com/news/2024/07/13/trump-rushed-off-stage-at-pennsylvania-rally-after-possible-gunfire-00167977 }}</ref>
. So that the vertical space increase didn't make the source code even more impossible to read or modify, I reformatted it to use WP:LDR, so that all the references would be moved to the bottom of the article instead of being plopped directly between the sentences of prose text. The reason this doesn't work in Visual Editor is because the Wikimedia Foundation has decided it doesn't matter if the default editor on Wikipedia can work without breaking when used to edit Wikipedia articles. jp× g 🗯️ 03:29, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
changing where the references are defined, e.g., moving reference definitions in the reflist to the prose, or moving reference definitions from the prose into the reflist. As such, I don't think that
CITEVAR is about what is rendered, not about how the markup is factoredholds here. — Red-tailed hawk (nest) 14:50, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
is inappropriate for the needs of the article, seek consensus for a change on the talk page. — Red-tailed hawk (nest) 01:10, 16 July 2024 (UTC)
The Secret Service is investigating how a man who shot and injured Trump was able to get so close
https://apnews.com/article/secret-service-trump-rally-4e3415b1461f5acefbc8e1fadad0375b
'A fundamental security failure': How did a gunman open fire on a Trump rally?
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/gunman-open-fire-trump-rally-rcna161746
New videos, witness accounts of Trump assassination attempt raise questions about security
Trump security was warned about gunman four minutes before shooting, witness claims
What went wrong? How did Secret Service allow shooter to get so close to Trump?
Rooftop where gunman shot at Trump was identified as a security vulnerability before rally: sources
Secret Service faces serious questions about security footprint and rooftop access at Trump event
Witness says he saw gunman on roof near Trump rally
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cn4v7v2g5l1o
Secret Service under pressure for shooter who got clear shot at Trump
https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2024/07/14/secret-service-trump-rally-shooting/
‘Massive security breach’: Secret Service under fire after gunman got clear shot at Trump
https://www.politico.com/news/2024/07/14/secret-service-trump-shooting-rally-00168158
Step aside, Butch ( talk) 14:10, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
I saw the end of the article:
Georgian Prime Minister Irakli Kobakhidze and other Georgian government officials blamed the attack on the "Global War Party", a recurring conspiracy theory of the Georgian Dream party alleging a mysterious international organization that exerts influence on the Western world from the shadows.
Is this relevant to the article? Or just some kind mixing fact with fantastic conspiracy thingy? Mmnashrullah ( talk) 07:49, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
Should the article say if Trump was turning his head (and/or body) clockwise (or counterclockwise, whatever the case), toward a chart that Trump was pointing at.--Another thing: the article should maybe (also?) say if Trump was "twisting"/turning his head, away from the direction of the shooter.--Please imagine that many of the readers of the wiki-article, (largely) only have access to stills (photographs), but not relevant video clips. Some readers depend on wiki-articles for details! Thanks, 2001:2020:355:9EBD:A520:1AE7:A49C:5216 ( talk) 19:14, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 | Archive 3 | Archive 4 | Archive 5 | Archive 6 |
Should we quote Trump's full statement of Truth Social immediately after the shooting in the aftermath section? Link User:WoodElf 16:18, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
Folks can we at least remove the duplicate? LegalSmeagolian ( talk) 01:25, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
The redirect
2024 assassination attempt has been listed at
redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the
redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at
Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2024 July 15 § 2024 assassination attempt until a consensus is reached.
MSMST1543 (
talk)
02:03, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
So far I've seen news organizations list that the fireman who died took a bullet from the shooter; the other two critically injured are only ever noted as having been shot. Do we have a map showing the locations of the bystanders, and how many bullets were fired into the crowd? I heard quite a few on the video. We're going to get another magic bullet incident where people decide the SS shot the other two bystanders and somehow claim trained SS agents don't know how to handle guns or shoot at a roof. John Moser ( talk) 01:56, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
She had posted negative comments/inappropriate comments about the assassin missing - many RS's reported ... 2603:6080:21F0:6000:6DF4:BA83:E068:136C ( talk) 00:36, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
The source for this sentence doesn't say that: "This was the second attempt at violence during one of his rallies: the first was in 2016, when a man attempted to disarm a security officer at a rally in Las Vegas." Is better source needed appropriate? Or delete? I feel this statement is too broad. There's no way to know how many incidents of violence have occurred at Trump rallies, let alone attempts at violence. It depends on how you define violence. Seananony ( talk) 22:04, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
The International leaders section only includes a list of countries. It seems like it would be better to create a separate article that covers different world leaders and politicians reaction to the attempted assassination. RandomUserGuy1738 ( talk) 22:13, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
The info box should say 2 deaths “including that of the perpetrator”, not “including the perpetrator”. 86.31.178.164 ( talk) 01:49, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
I have been trying to close old requests and respond to questions on here and every time I click on a section-edit link I am ending up at wildly different sections. This has been going on for like five minutes straight. I've got blood coming out of my eyes, blood coming out of my whatever. Some of these archivers are messing things up and putting sections on the wrong archive page! Can we just calm down for a minute. jp× g 🗯️ 04:48, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
There's currently much debate going on about the fair use of copyrighted images of the event. Until such debates are resolved, and in case things are resolved in the 'we can't use images of the event' direction, it would be great if we could get some Wikipedian's artistic representation of the event, a la a courtroom sketch.
I'm afraid I don't have the talent for it myself. If some bold Wikipedian out there felt like making a realistic but artistic sketch of the event, using whatever angle he or she felt represented the thing best, and posted it to the Commons for free use, that would be immensely appreciated. Any Wikipedian out there who feels that he or she has the artistic chops for it, please give it a shot! Such a sketch will probably never be better than a photo, but if we end up unable to use photos, it might just be the next best thing. Joe ( talk) 22:49, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
![]() | This
edit request to
Attempted assassination of Donald Trump has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Photograph of Trump pumping his fist after being shot in the ear.
The lead parahraph photograph of Trump should be titled like this . Photograph of Trump pumping his fist after escaping assassination.
Referance
https://edition.cnn.com/politics/live-news/trump-rally-shooting-07-14-24/index.html.
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cd172rp02e0o
https://www.reuters.com/world/us/trump-shooting-raises-questions-about-security-lapses-2024-07-14/
Thanks
ND61F (
talk)
04:41, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
First off, the whole section feels extremely long winded and tangential, exasperated more so by the fact that this is still a developing article. Secondly, the opinion pieces are not only unnecessary but also heavily skewed in a left-wing point-of-view. What I suggest is either the removal of the opinion paragraph entirely, which would not only present a neutral view of the photo but also more than half the length of that section, or an attempt to politically balance said paragraph.
As of now, all five sources cited in this section are left to left-leaning and have a combined political bias of -14.40 to the left according to measurements done by the leading media bias focused website, AllSides. This is an unacceptable bias for a Wikipedia article. Either we need to remedy this by removing further leaning political pieces and adding more centrist takes or we need to balance the political leaning of the story by removing some of the left-leaning op-eds and adding some right-leaning pieces to the article. This much of a political bias appearing on the article of a tragic shooting in which one innocent civilian lost their life and two others are fighting for theirs is an oversight the lengths of which I seriously cannot comprehend.
In short, I suggest for the complete removal or heavy, heavy, modification of the referenced paragraph. Firestorm0718 ( talk) 20:05, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
Does the shirt brand of the perpetrator (in this case, a gun YouTuber) need to be specifically mentioned? Has any reliable source made a connection between the shirt and the act? Much is unclear about affiliations and this seem biased and could needlessly cause backlash against an unrelated third party. Joellaser ( talk) 23:57, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
I reverted this edit:
[1] adding an editorial mentioning a poll indicating 10 percent of those surveyed said that the “use of force is justified to prevent Donald Trump from becoming president.”
. Actually, I think it is an important point, albeit an editorial. But if added, it must be added in context and neutrally. See:
[2]
[3]
[4]
[5]
[6]
O3000, Ret. (
talk)
10:44, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
@ Zacwill: Courtesy ping. O3000, Ret. ( talk) 10:46, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
The article says "he rose with blood on his ear and face and told Secret Service agents that he needed his shoes" and news reports say that he repeatedly asked for his shoes. Why would he not be wearing shoes? Does he take them off to speak or what? This seems to need explanation. Andrew🐉( talk) 08:08, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
Agents start to stand up, lifting Trump.
18:12:33: Trump: “Let me get my shoes, let me get my shoes.”
18:12:35: Male agent 2: “I got you sir, I got you sir.”
18:12:36: Trump: “Let me get my shoes on.”
18:12:37: Another male agent: “hold on, your head is bloody.”
18:12:39: Male agent 2: “Sir we’ve got to move to the car sir.”
18:12:42: Trump: “Let me get my shoes.”
18:12:43: Female agent: “OK, [inaudible].”
18:12:47: Trump: “Wait, wait, wait” then fist pumps to crowd. He mouths “fight” three times – a move met with cheers by the crowd.
This confirms that the shoes were an issue but still doesn't explain why. My best guess is that he may have fancy dress shoes which are not comfortable for long periods of standing so maybe he slips into something more comfortable. As Trump is quite image-conscious, he may have wanted to change back before moving out. But this is all speculation. I'll be looking out for more sources which clarify this ...
Andrew🐉( talk) 18:36, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
There's a picture of one of the shoes here: "Trump’s shoe was left on the stage on the spot where it come off as his Secret Service detail rushed to cover him. He was taken to a local medical facility." -- Jabin Botsford/The Washington Post. This looks to be a black Oxford dress shoe and still seems to be laced up. I wouldn't have thought this would come off so easily but that's what they seem to be saying. Andrew🐉( talk) 21:59, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
Omitted Context: The article does not mention recent calls for civil war from right-wing sources or their trending on social media, which is a significant aspect of the current political climate. [1] [2] Ms.britt ( talk) 00:27, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
Citations: https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2024/07/14/trump-shooting-conspiracy-theories/ https://www.wired.com/story/trump-shooting-far-right-calling-for-violence-war/
References
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Yes, I'm aware that it is in multiple sources, but they all appear to be repeating misinformation from each other.
The Act Blue donation: [7] address is different from the voter registration address: [8]. Titanium Dragon ( talk) 10:16, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
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Admins can we get the "disputed" tag removed from the $15 dono to Act Blue per the above the dispute is driven by WP:OR and is inconsistent with the diverse WP:RS covering this item. Thanks. 24.125.98.89 ( talk) 12:05, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
Currently the Vucci photo of Trump is under discussion regarding its inclusion and deletion, in the meantime, it would be great if we could get some kind of image to go in the infobox, like what we've got for the Attempted assassination of Ronald Reagan page. How would editors feel about including a low-res crop of one of the many news-feeds that captured the event? It wouldn't have the same commercial overlap concerns as the Vucci photo. Thoughts? Suggestions? Joe ( talk) 21:45, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
A previous version of this page mentioned the attempted assassination of President Ronald Wilson Reagan (I don’t know if this is still on the page). In my opinion, a closer historical parallel whose inclusion would make more sense than Reagan’s is the attempted assassination of Theodore Roosevelt, as this event is more similar to that one than it is to the incident with Reagan. Both the Trump and Roosevelt assassination attempts targeted a former president who was shot during an event for their reelection campaign after about three-and-a-half years out of office. Primal Groudon ( talk) 14:47, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
I'm creating this section in response to the repeated changing of the location of this incident. The shooting happened at the Butler Farm Show fairground which is located in Butler County outside of Butler. However, the state of Pennsylvania, as pointed out to me earlier by @ Dough4872 and @ JWilz12345, is divided into townships. This fairground is located in Connoquenessing Township, Butler County just west of Meridian.
Therefore it seems inappropriate to refer to this as happening within the city of Butler, despite many sources saying it happened in Butler, which is simply because the fairground is located within the Butler metro. So, should we refer to it as have happened west of Meridian, in Connoquenessing Township, or perhaps even just in Butler County? I prefer something along the lines of "Connoquenessing Township west of Meridian" personally although that is a mouthful. Raskuly ( talk) 05:03, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
@ Trorov: Hi! I notice your edit summaries mention a map. Which maps are they? WhisperToMe ( talk) 05:27, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
[...] as most of the Farm Show Grounds is in Connoquenessing Township, which is covered by state police.WhisperToMe ( talk) 16:57, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
The rally was held just outside the city limits,[...], from a local source. WhisperToMe ( talk) 17:14, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
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Title to be changed to the 2024 Atempted assasination of Donald Trump Lufthansa24 ( talk) 17:32, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
The Effects on Trump's public image section is entirely about one photo and is UNDUE and COATRACK. The article is about the assassination attempt, not people's opinions of the photo. If the photo gets sustained attention, then it might warrant inclusion. EvergreenFir (talk) 06:44, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
Iconic or historical images that are themselves the subject of sourced commentary in the article are generally appropriate. Iconic and historical images which are not subject of commentary themselves but significantly aid in illustrating historical events may be used if they meet all aspects of the non-free content criteria, particularly no free alternatives, respect for commercial opportunity, and contextual significance. However, if the image is from a press or photo agency (e.g., AP or Getty Images) and is not itself the subject of critical commentary, it is assumed automatically to fail the "respect for commercial opportunity" test.In this case, the image is from the Associated Press, and if we are going to use this image, the article needs to include sourced commentary from reliable sources making the case that it is iconic or historical. I believe that it is both. The passage of time will show that more clearly, but it is hard for me to visualize some future analysis by historians that concludes, "No, that is neither an iconic nor a historical photo of Trump". Cullen328 ( talk) 07:21, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
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This should be added to [[Category:Political violence in the United States]] AuroraANovaUma ^-^ ( talk) 19:43, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
:
Done.
A. Randomdude0000 (
talk)
19:46, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
File:Shooting of Donald Trump.webp is already being cited in the context of political grandstanding.
I have doubts that it even passes WP:NFCC. Can we locate something better? Zaathras ( talk) 00:31, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
@ Mikeblas: removed the map in this diff, and I agree - how is the map not original research? Daniel ( talk) 03:01, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
The redirect
Demolition Ranch has been listed at
redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the
redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at
Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2024 July 15 § Demolition Ranch until a consensus is reached.
C F A
💬
18:43, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
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Just wanted to add a source to the Mark Violets affair: the exclusive interview released by the guy that set up the fake news about the alleged terrorist (moussolinho) to an Italian monthly newspaper: https://rifrazioneprismag.substack.com/p/violigate-parla-moussolinho-la-cosa Loziocold ( talk) 15:34, 16 July 2024 (UTC)
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Please remove the names of the surviving injured victims per WP:BLPNAME. Inclusion of their full names isn't necessary. Estreyeria ( talk) 19:18, 16 July 2024 (UTC)
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Please change this sentence:
Crooks made a donation of $15 to the Progressive Turnout Project (a voter turnout group) through ActBlue (a donation platform for Democrats and progressive organizations).
to:
Crooks gave $15 to a voter turnout group, the Progressive Turnout Project, through a donation platform known as ActBlue, which is used by Democrats and progressive organizations.
Half the sentence is parenthetical phrases; that just seems too much. Also, "made a donation of" is much wordier than "gave". 123.51.107.94 ( talk) 04:36, 17 July 2024 (UTC)
In the paragraph that starts with "Public figures from the Democratic and Republican parties have called for an increase in security for the major candidates in the election. There are no known posts on social media websites or writings indicating his ideology,"
use of "his" is somewhat unclear. I'd recommend changing that pronoun to "the shooter's." Snideology ( talk) 02:26, 17 July 2024 (UTC)
It seems like they keep changing the image back to Vucci's image of Trump. I know it's because of copyright issues. However, I recommend that we soon agree on an image for the info-box we all agree on and like and keep. I'd recommend uploading some images to Wikimedia Commons if possible. But unfortunately, most images of this incident are subjected to copyright. PEPSI697 ( talk) 03:49, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
Recently, an edit was made that added list-defined references, which broke much of the referencing on the page. I oppose converting this to LDR for this reason and, per MOS:CITEVAR, we should continue using the inline template references. I will work to try to restore the content added between the LDR-inserting edit and the reverting edit. — Red-tailed hawk (nest) 03:13, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
According to Butler County district attorney Richard Goldinger, an alleged perpetrator and an audience member were killed.<ref>{{Cite news |title=Butler County District Attorney Richard Goldinger said two people are dead, including an apparent shooter. |url=https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2024/07/13/2024-election-campaign-updates-biden-trump-rally/ |url-status=live |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20240713232323/https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2024/07/13/2024-election-campaign-updates-biden-trump-rally/ |archive-date=July 13, 2024 |access-date=July 13, 2024 |newspaper=[[The Washington Post]]}}</ref> At least one other person is in critical condition.<ref name="casualties">{{Cite news |last1=Stein |first1=Chris |last2=Lawther |first2=Fran |date=July 13, 2024 |title=Donald Trump is 'fine' after being rushed off stage at rally amid possible gunshots – latest updates |url=https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/live/2024/jul/13/trump-rally-gun-shots-pennsylvania-latest-updates |access-date=July 13, 2024 |work=the Guardian |language=en-GB |issn=0261-3077 |archive-date=July 14, 2024 |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20240714015033/https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/live/2024/jul/13/trump-rally-gun-shots-pennsylvania-latest-updates |url-status=live }}</ref><ref name=PowellShelton>{{Cite web|last1=Powell|first1=Tori B.|last2=Shelton|first2=Shania|last3=Meyer|first3=Matt|last4=D'Antonio|first4=Isabelle|last5=Tucker|first5=Emma|last6=Yeung|first6=Jessie|date=July 13, 2024|title=Live updates: Trump injured in shooting at Pennsylvania rally that left at least 1 dead {{!}} CNN Politics|url=https://www.cnn.com/politics/live-news/election-biden-trump-07-13-24/index.html|access-date=July 13, 2024|website=CNN|language=en|archive-date=July 13, 2024|archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20240713222828/https://www.cnn.com/politics/live-news/election-biden-trump-07-13-24/index.html|url-status=live}}</ref> Rep. [[Ronny Jackson]] (R-Texas) told Fox News that his nephew was shot in the neck.<ref>{{Cite web |last=McGraw |first=Meridith |last2=Allison |first2=Natalie |date=July 13, 2024 |title=Trump ‘felt the bullet ripping through the skin’ during campaign rally shooting |url=https://www.politico.com/news/2024/07/13/trump-rushed-off-stage-at-pennsylvania-rally-after-possible-gunfire-00167977 |url-status=live |access-date=July 13, 2024 |website=Politico |archive-date=July 13, 2024 |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20240713235642/https://www.politico.com/news/2024/07/13/trump-rushed-off-stage-at-pennsylvania-rally-after-possible-gunfire-00167977 }}</ref>
<ref>{{Cite web |last=McGraw |first=Meridith |last2=Allison |first2=Natalie |date=July 13, 2024 |title=Trump ‘felt the bullet ripping through the skin’ during campaign rally shooting |url=https://www.politico.com/news/2024/07/13/trump-rushed-off-stage-at-pennsylvania-rally-after-possible-gunfire-00167977 |url-status=live |access-date=July 13, 2024 |website=Politico |archive-date=July 13, 2024 |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20240713235642/https://www.politico.com/news/2024/07/13/trump-rushed-off-stage-at-pennsylvania-rally-after-possible-gunfire-00167977 }}</ref>
<ref>{{Cite web |last = McGraw |first = Meridith |last2 = Allison |first2 = Natalie |date = July 13, 2024 |title = Trump ‘felt the bullet ripping through the skin’ during campaign rally shooting |url = https://www.politico.com/news/2024/07/13/trump-rushed-off-stage-at-pennsylvania-rally-after-possible-gunfire-00167977 |url-status = live |access-date = July 13, 2024 |website = Politico |archive-date = July 13, 2024 |archive-url = https://web.archive.org/web/20240713235642/https://www.politico.com/news/2024/07/13/trump-rushed-off-stage-at-pennsylvania-rally-after-possible-gunfire-00167977 }}</ref>
. So that the vertical space increase didn't make the source code even more impossible to read or modify, I reformatted it to use WP:LDR, so that all the references would be moved to the bottom of the article instead of being plopped directly between the sentences of prose text. The reason this doesn't work in Visual Editor is because the Wikimedia Foundation has decided it doesn't matter if the default editor on Wikipedia can work without breaking when used to edit Wikipedia articles. jp× g 🗯️ 03:29, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
changing where the references are defined, e.g., moving reference definitions in the reflist to the prose, or moving reference definitions from the prose into the reflist. As such, I don't think that
CITEVAR is about what is rendered, not about how the markup is factoredholds here. — Red-tailed hawk (nest) 14:50, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
is inappropriate for the needs of the article, seek consensus for a change on the talk page. — Red-tailed hawk (nest) 01:10, 16 July 2024 (UTC)
The Secret Service is investigating how a man who shot and injured Trump was able to get so close
https://apnews.com/article/secret-service-trump-rally-4e3415b1461f5acefbc8e1fadad0375b
'A fundamental security failure': How did a gunman open fire on a Trump rally?
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/gunman-open-fire-trump-rally-rcna161746
New videos, witness accounts of Trump assassination attempt raise questions about security
Trump security was warned about gunman four minutes before shooting, witness claims
What went wrong? How did Secret Service allow shooter to get so close to Trump?
Rooftop where gunman shot at Trump was identified as a security vulnerability before rally: sources
Secret Service faces serious questions about security footprint and rooftop access at Trump event
Witness says he saw gunman on roof near Trump rally
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cn4v7v2g5l1o
Secret Service under pressure for shooter who got clear shot at Trump
https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2024/07/14/secret-service-trump-rally-shooting/
‘Massive security breach’: Secret Service under fire after gunman got clear shot at Trump
https://www.politico.com/news/2024/07/14/secret-service-trump-shooting-rally-00168158
Step aside, Butch ( talk) 14:10, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
I saw the end of the article:
Georgian Prime Minister Irakli Kobakhidze and other Georgian government officials blamed the attack on the "Global War Party", a recurring conspiracy theory of the Georgian Dream party alleging a mysterious international organization that exerts influence on the Western world from the shadows.
Is this relevant to the article? Or just some kind mixing fact with fantastic conspiracy thingy? Mmnashrullah ( talk) 07:49, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
Should the article say if Trump was turning his head (and/or body) clockwise (or counterclockwise, whatever the case), toward a chart that Trump was pointing at.--Another thing: the article should maybe (also?) say if Trump was "twisting"/turning his head, away from the direction of the shooter.--Please imagine that many of the readers of the wiki-article, (largely) only have access to stills (photographs), but not relevant video clips. Some readers depend on wiki-articles for details! Thanks, 2001:2020:355:9EBD:A520:1AE7:A49C:5216 ( talk) 19:14, 15 July 2024 (UTC)