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In the section 9.3 can you add the Emirati Dialect as another kind of dialect spoken in the United Arab Emirates? You can also add an internal link to the page Emirati Dialect. Thank you Giuliamenegollo ( talk) 12:00, 12 January 2018 (UTC)
Reverted to status quo ante. The information on this particular dialect is sparse, leading to questions of notability. I'm not comfortable adding it.
Spintendo
ᔦᔭ
17:01, 12 January 2018 (UTC)
The results reveal that despite the differences in the speaker’s answers in terms of age and gender, all participants, regardless of age and gender, appear to feel proud of their dialect of Arabic.In a perfect realization of Murphy's law, I accepted the edit request thinking to myself "There's a Wikipedia page on it, what could go wrong?" Well, plenty. The article contains mostly plagiarized text taken from 2 sources, and even includes references to other parts of Wikipedia. All of this has made the inclusion of Emirati dialect very suspect in my eyes. There is something just not right here. So I urge other editors to show caution if faced with the same request in the future, and urge those editors to do your own research into the matter before accepting any requests to add it to the article. Regards, Spintendo ᔦᔭ 17:51, 12 January 2018 (UTC)
Between 9 October 2017 (four months ago) and today, this article contained false information about Arabic being an official language of the Eurasian Economic Union, which I now removed (though my edit summary was sent out prematurely). The hoax was contributed from the mobile web by User:112.210.68.217 whose many other contributions also seem to be disruptive and should be checked. -- Blahma ( talk) 08:24, 14 February 2018 (UTC)
"Of the 29 Proto-Semitic consonants, only one has been lost: */ʒ/, which merged with /ʃ/.[55] But the consonant */ʒ/ is still found in many colloquial Arabic dialects."
this statement sounds wrong. Proto-Semitic didn't have a /ʒ/. The consonant that Arabic lost is /ʃ/ which got merged with the /s/. Does anyone know why this was written this way? If yes, please provide some sources.
Also, the phonology table states that the glottal fricative is voiced in Arabic. Is that true? I always read that it's voiceless. ICanHelpYou ( talk) 07:27, 13 September 2018 (UTC)
Our articles contain some statements regarding distinctions between these terms marked with "contradictory" tags. This seems to reflect the inconsistent usage of these terms in RS. For example:
Other sources specify "literary" as "modern literary" or "classical literary". What seems to be consistently observed in the sources is that whenever authors use "literary Arabic" without qualification, they aren't concerned with distinctions between classical Arabic and MSA. In view of this, I've turned Literary Arabic into a dab, and I will clean up the contradictory tags and hatnotes. Eperoton ( talk) 03:55, 21 October 2018 (UTC)
Dear Kbb2, I was the one who syllabified the IPA, because there are other users who don't understand the syllable structure and keep re-writing the geminated semi-vowels with the length mark [ː], writing it [ʕaraˈbijːa] without understanding, and I see also in [ɑlˈlɑː] wrongly re-written [ɑˈlːɑː] which was an example of misinterpreting the stress position. -- Mahmudmasri ( talk) 13:30, 7 September 2019 (UTC)
The header is too big and ambiguous. I think it is better to make a more general one like the one I suggested, which is even supported by sources.
In addition, the article includes Spanish as a language strongly influenced by Arabic. And this is not true, Spanish compared to other European languages does have a lot of Arabic influence, but in absolute terms and compared to the other languages exposed in that list there is very little Arab influence in Spanish. Specifically, about 8%. SmithGraves ( talk) 22:12, 7 November 2019 (UTC)
Regardless of whether 8% is little or a lot, it does not legitimize you to erase the entire edition, because the synthesis of the information is something key in an article header.
I have added sources that claim that the Arabic influence in Spanish is 8% of loanwords, even in the body of the article you said it mentions that it is 8%, but it is seen that you have not read the article of the Arab influence in the Spanish.
8% is significant for European languages, but it is very little compared to the languages listed in this article. SmithGraves ( talk) 22:25, 7 November 2019 (UTC)
The list of the supposed languages most influenced by Arabic, besides being a disaster, has almost no sources and the Spanish language does not fit the list.
I will include a more comprehensive and general list of languages influenced by Arabic, and remove parts to make in a more synthesized header. SmithGraves ( talk) 22:40, 7 November 2019 (UTC)
An editor has asked for a discussion to address the redirect Arabic Langauge. Please participate in the redirect discussion if you wish to do so. Steel1943 ( talk) 18:26, 11 November 2019 (UTC)
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the title of this article seems to be inconsistent with the other language pages on English Wikipedia. Rather than just being titled "Arabic", should it not be "Arabic language"? Jpthefish ( talk) 19:50, 8 May 2020 (UTC)
@ Alhubni98766: Regarding this change:
1. You claim that it's an improvement because, according to you, the previous map is incorrect. How is it incorrect and what exactly needs changing?
2. You also removed a second map. You need to explain why. M.Bitton ( talk) 23:51, 15 May 2020 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: not moved. Consensus against move. ( closed by non-admin page mover) feminist | wear a mask; protect everyone 05:51, 16 May 2020 (UTC)
Arabic → Arabic language – The current title is inconsistent with other languages titles. This page can be a good disambiguation page, it would include Arabic script, Arabic alphabet etc. SharʿabSalam▼ ( talk) 20:06, 8 May 2020 (UTC)
Designating a script used for writing Arabic, esp. the cursive script used for writing modern Arabic, consisting of twenty-eight consonants with vowels indicated by additional marks; (also) designating modified forms of this script used for writing other languages, as Persian and Urdu. Also: of or belonging to this script.
Designating the system of numerals written 0, 1, 2, 3, 4, etc.; of or relating to this system.
Designating an Arab or a person of Arab descent; Arab or Arabian in origin, character, or design.
I felt article Islamic_literature is in bit of neglect so I added my note on talk page there, requesting to take note of Talk:Islamic_literature#Article_review. If possible requesting copy edit support. Suggestions for suitable reference sources at Talk:Islamic_literature is also welcome.
Posting message here too for neutrality sake
Thanks and greetings
Bookku ( talk) 07:16, 21 May 2020 (UTC)
While working on article Islamic advice literature I realized that word 'Qisas' is appearing in different meaning at Qisas Al-Anbiya it comes as story/anecdote telling (alternative spelling Kissa). And in article named Qisas seems to come as revenge. Need support in creating proper disambiguation page and links so reader do not end up in unexpected pages.
Of course article Islamic advice literature too needs support in update and expansion since lot of scholarly references are available in books and google scholar too.
Thanks in advance and greetings
Bookku ( talk) 07:34, 29 May 2020 (UTC)
Hello many greetings,
Requesting your proactive contribution and support in updating Draft:Aurats (word) in relation to the related languages you know well.
Thanks and warm regards
Bookku ( talk) 03:10, 12 July 2020 (UTC)
A discussion is taking place to address the redirect
Langue arabe. The discussion will occur at
Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2020 August 2#Langue arabe until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion.
Soumya-8974
talk
contribs
subpages
12:58, 2 August 2020 (UTC)
A discussion is taking place to address the redirect
Arabe. The discussion will occur at
Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2020 August 2#Arabe until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion.
Soumya-8974
talk
contribs
subpages
12:59, 2 August 2020 (UTC)
The Wikipedia Library is announcing new free, full-access, accounts to reliable sources as part of our research access program. You can sign up for new accounts and research materials on the Library Card platform:
Many other partnerships are listed on our partners page, including Adam Matthew, EBSCO, Gale and JSTOR.
A significant portion of our collection now no longer requires individual applications to access! Read more in our recent blog post.
Do better research and help expand the use of high quality references across Wikipedia projects!
-- The Wikipedia Library Team 09:49, 3 September 2020 (UTC)
I thought that the above announcement might particularly interest editors of this page. Whatamidoing (WMF) ( talk) 18:19, 7 September 2020 (UTC)
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This should link to the disambiguation pagelink Arabic (disambiguation), as there are other uses not listed on the hatnote.
Please change
{{About|the general language (macrolanguage)|the literary standard|Modern Standard Arabic|vernacular varieties|Varieties of Arabic|the historical language family|Classification of Arabic languages|the separate South Semitic language group|Modern South Arabian languages}}
to
{{About|the general language (macrolanguage)|the literary standard|Modern Standard Arabic|vernacular varieties|Varieties of Arabic|the historical language family|Classification of Arabic languages|the separate South Semitic language group|Modern South Arabian languages|other uses}}
-- 67.70.32.97 ( talk) 22:55, 1 October 2020 (UTC)
Classic Arabic is a modified Version from old Arabic by Iranians after the Muslim conquest of Persia (637–651) and they improved the Arabic morphology called Sarf which heavily influenced Arabic in general. Also, they simplified the readership of Qoran for non-Arab regions by adding Diacritics (Eerab) to the old language. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Shahramjavan ( talk • contribs) 18:49, 26 December 2020 (UTC)
Morrocan Arabic is not as different to Middle Eastern Arabic as is in French is different to Italian or Portuguese. To suggest that is totally wrong and should be omitted from the article.What was written is wrong and it does make Wikipedia look bad. Munzer21 ( talk) 09:33, 18 March 2021 (UTC)
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2601:646:4201:4610:D5D7:8590:9817:2224 ( talk) 09:13, 18 March 2021 (UTC)
No edit requested. Closing. ScottishFinnishRadish ( talk) 11:10, 18 March 2021 (UTC)
I think the history segment under the phonology section should be merged and rewritten under the main history section of the article. For reference check out the English, Chinese, and French is organized.
I might be able to do this later on, but thought to discuss it here first and see what do you all think. A Contemporary Nomad ( talk) 14:55, 7 April 2021 (UTC)
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I would like to add some new information on the Arabic language from Ahmad Al-Jallad and others. I want to remove the Micheal Macdonald's source that the Arabic language first emerged from the 1st to 4th centuries AD which he thought that the Safaitic and Hismaic inscriptions are non-Arabic inscriptions even though Jallad and others recently stated that they are indeed Old Arabic dialects. Not to mention that Ancient North Arabian language group is no longer a valid grouping anymore and etc. https://www.academia.edu/38100372/Al_Jallad_A_Manual_of_the_Historical_Grammar_of_Arabic https://www.academia.edu/33917069/Al_Jallad_2018_What_is_Ancient_North_Arabian
Thank you. Kamal90012345 ( talk) 13:27, 23 March 2021 (UTC)
I found the dialectical/linguistic points of the article prejudicial and influenced by a Western view (scholars who never lived in Arab countries and probably couldn't speak the language fluently). As an Arab speaker myself, who have lived and interacted with Arab speakers from various countries, I see dialects as variations of one language. If you actually properly analyze a dialect, you will realize that EACH word is based on a word you would find in what you define as MSA. A child would realize this! Studying the history of the formation of dialects (which did exist pre Islamically), would show you the rules that formed the dialects (how one letter changed to another or merged to make pronunciation easier and yet the word and meaning stayed the same!). There is a great YouTube video thread on this topic and tremendous other resources that aren't influenced by prejudice or the intention of dividing the Arab world. I do think this article needs to include more research from ARAB scholars, especially for such an important topic. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.246.45.123 ( talk) 13:01, 26 April 2021 (UTC)
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IPA is wrong. It should be "Arabic pronunciation: [æl ʕaraˈbijjːa]" if you want it to be correct. Abū Tuyyūr ( talk) 10:00, 9 June 2021 (UTC)
Unable to find any sourcing anywhere on the web about arabic spoken in Anderska, Serbia. Also unable to locate Anderska or any information about it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Imnotabettafish ( talk • contribs) 16:51, 19 November 2014 (UTC)
English remains the main language used for official purposes and in education, but it may face competition from Arabic. [1] [2]
In 2014, Gambian president Yahya Jammeh announced that The Gambia would drop English as the official language because it is a "colonial relic" in favour of Arabic. [3] [4] However, such change was not enacted until the present day.
References
— Preceding unsigned comment added by 19:02, 21 October 2016 ( talk • contribs) 87.79.161.164 (UTC)
This article is or was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment. Further details are available
on the course page. Student editor(s):
Sanakareem20. Peer reviewers:
Shalineem.
Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT ( talk) 14:37, 16 January 2022 (UTC)
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At Arabic#Structure there is a sentence "The suras, also known as chapters of the Quran, are not placed in chronological order". The link in that sentence points to Suras which redirects to Sudra Kingdom. Since the sentence is about the Quran, the link should probably point to Surah which is the actual article on the chapters of the Quran. Alternatively the redirect at Suras could be changed to achieve the same result. 2406:5A00:EC14:B800:A9A4:3E19:E094:B9 ( talk) 01:35, 17 November 2021 (UTC)
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Boutarfa Nafia ( talk) 20:17, 29 December 2021 (UTC) "change third most to third most spoken(even though it is false because mandarin is more spoken than arabic) "
These two countries do not have any spoken dialect of Arabic of their own. Only Standard Arabic is taught and is most widespread in these areas. Only a fraction of the Arabic speakers in Djibouti and Somalia have a genuine Yemeni Arabic dialect from prior habitation in Yemen, more people only know Standard Arabic than speak Yemeni Arabic there. The Yemeni dialect of Arabic is not predominant in Djibouti and Somalia. Afar and Somali are the local vernaculars, while Standard Arabic is the main form of Arabic learned for religious and commercial reasons. I suggest changing the map and somehow reflecting this reality. AzanianPearl ( talk) 14:07, 20 January 2022 (UTC)
@ Iskandar323: Dialect suggests there is a pattern to it and unwritten rules. There is none for the Arabic of this region. It is mostly heavily accented or badly spoken Standard Arabic, not a real L1 colloquial dialect like the case is with Yemen or other areas with L1 Arabic. These maps often cause confusion because people often skim through text and look at maps. This may lead people to believe that the Yemeni Arabic dialect is predominant in Djibouti and Somalia, while when you get there you mostly only hear L2 or L3 Fusha. Perhaps it should be completely split from the Yemen association then and just call it the Somali dialect. I hope somebody reading this can make this change. AzanianPearl ( talk) 02:05, 21 January 2022 (UTC)
Pathawi I think the best solution is to split Somali from the Yemeni and Somali label on that map and give the Horn of Africa region new subcategories: Eritrean, Djiboutian, Somali. The problem however is that these are not real L1 dialects, but L1.5 or L2 dialects / accents (one may argue it could be L1 for some in Eritrea). There are various Muslim groups in Eritrea who use Arabic as a lingua franca. I personally know an Agaw (Bilen) Eritrean who speaks more Arabic with his family than he does his ethnic language (Agaw/Bilen) and he does not live in the Arab world. Some Tigre Eritreans may also be using Arabic as something in between L1 and L2, so an Eritrean 'dialect' of Arabic may be argued for. As for Djiboutian, it is an official language there on par with French. In order to avoid tribal/ethnic conflicts between Afars and Somalis the two 'neutral' languages of Arabic and French were made official instead. The trained ear can likely detect a Djiboutian dialect in that region. As for Somali, no Somalis use Arabic as an L1 or anywhere close to it, nevertheless it is an official language in both Somaliland and Somalia and people are actively encouraged to learn Arabic there for religious and commercial reasons. Given the linguistic influence of Somali on their Arabic speech one can pick up on it as well and it definitely doesn't sound like the Yemeni dialect (more like Somali phonetically influenced MSA). In sum, I suggest somebody removes the Yemeni and Somali category and creates three HOA Arabic variants (Eritrean, Djiboutian, Somali) for this map. Thank you in advance whoever is able to do it. AzanianPearl ( talk) 13:10, 29 July 2022 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: Not moved per WP:SNOW ( non-admin closure) ( t · c) buidhe 09:14, 11 February 2022 (UTC)
Arabic →
Arabic language –
WP:CONSISTENT, every other language has the word "language" after the language name
CR-1-AB (
talk)
21:18, 10 February 2022 (UTC)
In section “spread”:
“Arabic spread with the spread of Islam. Following the early Muslim conquests, Arabic gained vocabulary from Middle Persian and Turkish.”
Editor states that arabic gained vocabulary from middle persian and turkish, yet article cited states differently.
From the article:
“The professor explains: “In pre-Islamic times you find borrowings from Akkadian, Aramaic, Ethiopic, South Arabian, Greek, Latin; after the conquests, when the Arabs came into contact with other people, there is, for example, a lot of Middle Persian and Turkish, and in early Abbasid times, when you had the Bayt Al Hikma in Bagdad, where all the translations were made, there is a heavy influx of classical Greek…”
It sounds to me like the professor was underlining the influence many other languages. Furthermore, the article doesn’t state that the arabic language gained vocabulary from middle persian and turkish, more like they just “came into contact with” them.
If I’m wrong, at least put the other languages up there along with middle persian and turkish, which would better utilize the cited article.
Thank you! Asalhathlool ( talk) 21:22, 19 July 2022 (UTC)
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The article says that Arabic first emerged in the 1th century to the 4th century, but this is wrong, 1th century to 4th CE century is when Arabic script was born, but the Arabic language is much older than, Arabic language first emerged in 10th to 5th centuries BCE, even if we don’t know a lot about the language in that period, and don’t forget the Nabateans who spoke Arabic in 4th century BCE to 2th century CE (Aramaic was their official language, but their every day language was Arabic),so pleas edit it 2A02:ED0:528D:EB00:59E4:3E80:B8E5:B59F ( talk) 22:44, 7 August 2022 (UTC)
please change X to Y. — Sirdog ( talk) 04:57, 8 August 2022 (UTC)
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There are some mistakes in the article: Firstly, Qariat al faw inscription is dated back to the first century BCE not AD. Secondly Arabic is much older than than the first century AD, I mentioned that in a former edit request but I didn’t include sources, Arabic as a spoken language is at least 3000 years old but we don’t know a lot about the language in that period because nearly all survived fragments consist personal names and single proper nouns , and even the Assyrians (who are the first to mention the Arabs) mentioned Arab kings and queens of Qedar and their names were pure Arabic in the 9th century BCE , which means that the Arabic language was spoken back then, but started to be written later, Arabic started to be a written language in the second half of the first millennium BCE in different scripts than the Arabic script( like safaitic, Hismaic etc) we know today, so its wrong to say that Arabic first emerged in the first century AD, the earliest Arabic texts written in Safaitic script are dated to the 3rd century BCE while the latest to the 3rd century AD.so is more accurate to say that Arabic first emerged in the first half of the first millennium BCE but also mention that it wasn’t written back then, I hope you edit the article
Sources: 1. http://www.islamic-awareness.org/History/Islam/Inscriptions/faw.html
2. https://www.academia.edu/18470301
3. https://www.academia.edu/38100372 2A02:ED0:528D:EB00:B0B9:BB51:1A9E:87C2 ( talk) 02:01, 12 August 2022 (UTC)
"Linguists generally believe that "Old Arabic" (a collection of related dialects that constitute the precursor of Arabic) first emerged around the 1st century CE. Previously, the earliest attestation of Old Arabic was thought to be a single 1st century CE inscription in Sabaic script at Qaryat Al-Faw, in southern present-day Saudi Arabia."Linguists believe ... the same thing as they previously believed. Something is definitely off here. Iskandar323 ( talk) 17:21, 15 August 2022 (UTC)
{{
edit semi-protected}}
template.
Aaron Liu (
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Arabic first appeared in the mid-ninth century BCE, Qariat al faw inscription is dated back to the 1 century BCE
http://www.islamic-awareness.org/History/Islam/Inscriptions/faw.html
https://www.academia.edu/18470301
https://www.academia.edu/38100372 Zedtased ( talk) 03:32, 14 August 2022 (UTC)
Hope you all are well. This is a continuation of the discussion under Arabic_and_Eritrea,_Djibouti_&_Somalia above. Briefly: There are three maps on this page:
I believe that we should remove the first & third of these. In theory, such maps should be very useful to Wikipedia's readers. However, it has not been possible to identify the source of the information in these maps, & it appears that some of it is incorrect. We shouldn't spread misinformation, & we should only work with reliable sources.
Wikimedia Commons user Fobos92 has made a great many very attractive maps that are used throughout Wikipedia & affiliated projects. Unfortunately, over the past years this user has ignored most questions regarding the source of information on language maps. They appear not to have had a verbal interaction on a Talk page at Wikimedia Commons since 2018. For relevant unanswered questions about the sources of linguistic maps: 2017, 2018 +, 2019 +. These dates aren't meant to criticise that user, but to emphasise that it is unlikely that answers about the source data will be forthcoming. In 2015, the user was unable to defend a map of the Balkan Romance languages because they couldn't recall the source. Similar deletion proposals based on implausible map contents & the lack of any sourcing in 2016, 2017 ( another), 2018 ( another), 2021 ( another) saw no response from this user. (In some cases the maps were deleted, while in some they were kept: Error in a map is not a reason for it to be deleted from Wikimedia Commons.) The user did participate briefly in a 2018 discussion concerning a Czech map, but did not respond to questions about source. Similarly, in a 2019 discussion of a map of Francophonie, they defended the existence of the map based on its use by sister Wiki projects, but did not respond directly to concerns about the lack of sourcing. Inaccuracy led to the removal of this user's Welsh language map from Wikipedia's Welsh language article in 2018.
Again: My point is not to criticise an editor on a sister Wiki, but to emphasise that it is unlikely that we will learn the source of these maps. Wikimedia Commons user High surv asked about the source of the Arabic dialects map in 2021. I reiterated the question about a month ago. AzanianPearl asked a question about the same map in Wikimedia Commons in January. We have not received a response in either of these locations, & I don't think we will.
On the grounds that these maps do no reflect information from a reliable source, I propose that we should delete them. In fact, I think that the argument is solid enough that I would have just done that & then explained myself on the Talk page. However, the semi-protected status of this page suggests that there's been some contentious editing here in the past, & I thought it might be worthwhile to open a conversation before deleting. An alternative approach would be to edit the files in Wikimedia Commons: It is generally better to improve than to delete. Unfortunately, I think that this is a substantive task that won't happen quickly. I think that the appropriate course of action would still be to remove the maps from this page now because they contain unsourced probable misinformation, then reintroduce them once they've been revised in accordance with reliable secondary sources. Pathawi ( talk) 12:10, 18 August 2022 (UTC)
It's been a week, so I've removed the two maps.
The map originates in Wikipediathis is what we think, it's not a fact that we can establish beyond a shadow of a doubt. M.Bitton ( talk) 14:08, 4 September 2022 (UTC)
Yes Ethnologue is far from perfect, but again, that's the best we have. If you want to improve it I suggest you join their Contributor Program: https://www.ethnologue.com/contributor-program
It's really nice because it gives you a free access to the whole website. A455bcd9 ( talk) 19:06, 4 September 2022 (UTC)
Nehaoua, could you clarify a little what you mean by realistic? The previous map also showed dialects in this manner—I'm not catching the difference in realism. Pathawi ( talk) 17:08, 25 November 2022 (UTC)
Nehaoua: Hmm… Are we looking at the same map? The map under Spoken Varieties looks to me like it only coincides with national borders in two locations where the the colours appear as diagonal stripes. According to the key to the map, these are regions where there are indeterminate scattered populations, so, for example, there are speakers of Shuwa Arabic thruout Chad, but reliable sources don't indicate where within Chad, specifically. That's what the hatched areas over those two countries mean. Otherwise, it doesn't look to me like the dialect areas match up with national borders. Is it possible that you're looking at the top map on the page, which shows countries where Arabic has official status? Pathawi ( talk) 18:03, 25 November 2022 (UTC)
The "Phonology" and "Grammar" sections currently extensively describe MSA's phonology and grammar and briefly describe colloquial varieties. We have articles about Modern Standard Arabic, Classical Arabic, and all other Varieties of Arabic (e.g. Levantine Arabic). So extended description of these varieties' phonology and grammar should be discussed there only.
So I suggest to simply delete the "Literary Arabic" and "Colloquial varieties" subsections of "Phonology" and "Grammar". These sections are largely unsourced anyway.
Instead, we should have a few paragraphs about the general common features of all Arabic varieties, based on reliable sources.
What do you think? A455bcd9 ( talk) 14:33, 6 September 2022 (UTC)
Under Arabic#Phonology, it is claimed that Arabic has a Voiced Glottal Fricative ( ɦ). Is this meant to be ه ( hāʾ)? I believe hāʾ is realized as a Voiceless Glottal Fricative ( h) in almost all varieties of Arabic. The independent Arabic phonology page also describes this sound as voiceless.
-- human1011 ( talk) 18:04, 21 September 2022 (UTC)
References
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | ← | Archive 4 | Archive 5 | Archive 6 | Archive 7 |
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In the section 9.3 can you add the Emirati Dialect as another kind of dialect spoken in the United Arab Emirates? You can also add an internal link to the page Emirati Dialect. Thank you Giuliamenegollo ( talk) 12:00, 12 January 2018 (UTC)
Reverted to status quo ante. The information on this particular dialect is sparse, leading to questions of notability. I'm not comfortable adding it.
Spintendo
ᔦᔭ
17:01, 12 January 2018 (UTC)
The results reveal that despite the differences in the speaker’s answers in terms of age and gender, all participants, regardless of age and gender, appear to feel proud of their dialect of Arabic.In a perfect realization of Murphy's law, I accepted the edit request thinking to myself "There's a Wikipedia page on it, what could go wrong?" Well, plenty. The article contains mostly plagiarized text taken from 2 sources, and even includes references to other parts of Wikipedia. All of this has made the inclusion of Emirati dialect very suspect in my eyes. There is something just not right here. So I urge other editors to show caution if faced with the same request in the future, and urge those editors to do your own research into the matter before accepting any requests to add it to the article. Regards, Spintendo ᔦᔭ 17:51, 12 January 2018 (UTC)
Between 9 October 2017 (four months ago) and today, this article contained false information about Arabic being an official language of the Eurasian Economic Union, which I now removed (though my edit summary was sent out prematurely). The hoax was contributed from the mobile web by User:112.210.68.217 whose many other contributions also seem to be disruptive and should be checked. -- Blahma ( talk) 08:24, 14 February 2018 (UTC)
"Of the 29 Proto-Semitic consonants, only one has been lost: */ʒ/, which merged with /ʃ/.[55] But the consonant */ʒ/ is still found in many colloquial Arabic dialects."
this statement sounds wrong. Proto-Semitic didn't have a /ʒ/. The consonant that Arabic lost is /ʃ/ which got merged with the /s/. Does anyone know why this was written this way? If yes, please provide some sources.
Also, the phonology table states that the glottal fricative is voiced in Arabic. Is that true? I always read that it's voiceless. ICanHelpYou ( talk) 07:27, 13 September 2018 (UTC)
Our articles contain some statements regarding distinctions between these terms marked with "contradictory" tags. This seems to reflect the inconsistent usage of these terms in RS. For example:
Other sources specify "literary" as "modern literary" or "classical literary". What seems to be consistently observed in the sources is that whenever authors use "literary Arabic" without qualification, they aren't concerned with distinctions between classical Arabic and MSA. In view of this, I've turned Literary Arabic into a dab, and I will clean up the contradictory tags and hatnotes. Eperoton ( talk) 03:55, 21 October 2018 (UTC)
Dear Kbb2, I was the one who syllabified the IPA, because there are other users who don't understand the syllable structure and keep re-writing the geminated semi-vowels with the length mark [ː], writing it [ʕaraˈbijːa] without understanding, and I see also in [ɑlˈlɑː] wrongly re-written [ɑˈlːɑː] which was an example of misinterpreting the stress position. -- Mahmudmasri ( talk) 13:30, 7 September 2019 (UTC)
The header is too big and ambiguous. I think it is better to make a more general one like the one I suggested, which is even supported by sources.
In addition, the article includes Spanish as a language strongly influenced by Arabic. And this is not true, Spanish compared to other European languages does have a lot of Arabic influence, but in absolute terms and compared to the other languages exposed in that list there is very little Arab influence in Spanish. Specifically, about 8%. SmithGraves ( talk) 22:12, 7 November 2019 (UTC)
Regardless of whether 8% is little or a lot, it does not legitimize you to erase the entire edition, because the synthesis of the information is something key in an article header.
I have added sources that claim that the Arabic influence in Spanish is 8% of loanwords, even in the body of the article you said it mentions that it is 8%, but it is seen that you have not read the article of the Arab influence in the Spanish.
8% is significant for European languages, but it is very little compared to the languages listed in this article. SmithGraves ( talk) 22:25, 7 November 2019 (UTC)
The list of the supposed languages most influenced by Arabic, besides being a disaster, has almost no sources and the Spanish language does not fit the list.
I will include a more comprehensive and general list of languages influenced by Arabic, and remove parts to make in a more synthesized header. SmithGraves ( talk) 22:40, 7 November 2019 (UTC)
An editor has asked for a discussion to address the redirect Arabic Langauge. Please participate in the redirect discussion if you wish to do so. Steel1943 ( talk) 18:26, 11 November 2019 (UTC)
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the title of this article seems to be inconsistent with the other language pages on English Wikipedia. Rather than just being titled "Arabic", should it not be "Arabic language"? Jpthefish ( talk) 19:50, 8 May 2020 (UTC)
@ Alhubni98766: Regarding this change:
1. You claim that it's an improvement because, according to you, the previous map is incorrect. How is it incorrect and what exactly needs changing?
2. You also removed a second map. You need to explain why. M.Bitton ( talk) 23:51, 15 May 2020 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: not moved. Consensus against move. ( closed by non-admin page mover) feminist | wear a mask; protect everyone 05:51, 16 May 2020 (UTC)
Arabic → Arabic language – The current title is inconsistent with other languages titles. This page can be a good disambiguation page, it would include Arabic script, Arabic alphabet etc. SharʿabSalam▼ ( talk) 20:06, 8 May 2020 (UTC)
Designating a script used for writing Arabic, esp. the cursive script used for writing modern Arabic, consisting of twenty-eight consonants with vowels indicated by additional marks; (also) designating modified forms of this script used for writing other languages, as Persian and Urdu. Also: of or belonging to this script.
Designating the system of numerals written 0, 1, 2, 3, 4, etc.; of or relating to this system.
Designating an Arab or a person of Arab descent; Arab or Arabian in origin, character, or design.
I felt article Islamic_literature is in bit of neglect so I added my note on talk page there, requesting to take note of Talk:Islamic_literature#Article_review. If possible requesting copy edit support. Suggestions for suitable reference sources at Talk:Islamic_literature is also welcome.
Posting message here too for neutrality sake
Thanks and greetings
Bookku ( talk) 07:16, 21 May 2020 (UTC)
While working on article Islamic advice literature I realized that word 'Qisas' is appearing in different meaning at Qisas Al-Anbiya it comes as story/anecdote telling (alternative spelling Kissa). And in article named Qisas seems to come as revenge. Need support in creating proper disambiguation page and links so reader do not end up in unexpected pages.
Of course article Islamic advice literature too needs support in update and expansion since lot of scholarly references are available in books and google scholar too.
Thanks in advance and greetings
Bookku ( talk) 07:34, 29 May 2020 (UTC)
Hello many greetings,
Requesting your proactive contribution and support in updating Draft:Aurats (word) in relation to the related languages you know well.
Thanks and warm regards
Bookku ( talk) 03:10, 12 July 2020 (UTC)
A discussion is taking place to address the redirect
Langue arabe. The discussion will occur at
Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2020 August 2#Langue arabe until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion.
Soumya-8974
talk
contribs
subpages
12:58, 2 August 2020 (UTC)
A discussion is taking place to address the redirect
Arabe. The discussion will occur at
Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2020 August 2#Arabe until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion.
Soumya-8974
talk
contribs
subpages
12:59, 2 August 2020 (UTC)
The Wikipedia Library is announcing new free, full-access, accounts to reliable sources as part of our research access program. You can sign up for new accounts and research materials on the Library Card platform:
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I thought that the above announcement might particularly interest editors of this page. Whatamidoing (WMF) ( talk) 18:19, 7 September 2020 (UTC)
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This should link to the disambiguation pagelink Arabic (disambiguation), as there are other uses not listed on the hatnote.
Please change
{{About|the general language (macrolanguage)|the literary standard|Modern Standard Arabic|vernacular varieties|Varieties of Arabic|the historical language family|Classification of Arabic languages|the separate South Semitic language group|Modern South Arabian languages}}
to
{{About|the general language (macrolanguage)|the literary standard|Modern Standard Arabic|vernacular varieties|Varieties of Arabic|the historical language family|Classification of Arabic languages|the separate South Semitic language group|Modern South Arabian languages|other uses}}
-- 67.70.32.97 ( talk) 22:55, 1 October 2020 (UTC)
Classic Arabic is a modified Version from old Arabic by Iranians after the Muslim conquest of Persia (637–651) and they improved the Arabic morphology called Sarf which heavily influenced Arabic in general. Also, they simplified the readership of Qoran for non-Arab regions by adding Diacritics (Eerab) to the old language. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Shahramjavan ( talk • contribs) 18:49, 26 December 2020 (UTC)
Morrocan Arabic is not as different to Middle Eastern Arabic as is in French is different to Italian or Portuguese. To suggest that is totally wrong and should be omitted from the article.What was written is wrong and it does make Wikipedia look bad. Munzer21 ( talk) 09:33, 18 March 2021 (UTC)
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2601:646:4201:4610:D5D7:8590:9817:2224 ( talk) 09:13, 18 March 2021 (UTC)
No edit requested. Closing. ScottishFinnishRadish ( talk) 11:10, 18 March 2021 (UTC)
I think the history segment under the phonology section should be merged and rewritten under the main history section of the article. For reference check out the English, Chinese, and French is organized.
I might be able to do this later on, but thought to discuss it here first and see what do you all think. A Contemporary Nomad ( talk) 14:55, 7 April 2021 (UTC)
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I would like to add some new information on the Arabic language from Ahmad Al-Jallad and others. I want to remove the Micheal Macdonald's source that the Arabic language first emerged from the 1st to 4th centuries AD which he thought that the Safaitic and Hismaic inscriptions are non-Arabic inscriptions even though Jallad and others recently stated that they are indeed Old Arabic dialects. Not to mention that Ancient North Arabian language group is no longer a valid grouping anymore and etc. https://www.academia.edu/38100372/Al_Jallad_A_Manual_of_the_Historical_Grammar_of_Arabic https://www.academia.edu/33917069/Al_Jallad_2018_What_is_Ancient_North_Arabian
Thank you. Kamal90012345 ( talk) 13:27, 23 March 2021 (UTC)
I found the dialectical/linguistic points of the article prejudicial and influenced by a Western view (scholars who never lived in Arab countries and probably couldn't speak the language fluently). As an Arab speaker myself, who have lived and interacted with Arab speakers from various countries, I see dialects as variations of one language. If you actually properly analyze a dialect, you will realize that EACH word is based on a word you would find in what you define as MSA. A child would realize this! Studying the history of the formation of dialects (which did exist pre Islamically), would show you the rules that formed the dialects (how one letter changed to another or merged to make pronunciation easier and yet the word and meaning stayed the same!). There is a great YouTube video thread on this topic and tremendous other resources that aren't influenced by prejudice or the intention of dividing the Arab world. I do think this article needs to include more research from ARAB scholars, especially for such an important topic. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.246.45.123 ( talk) 13:01, 26 April 2021 (UTC)
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IPA is wrong. It should be "Arabic pronunciation: [æl ʕaraˈbijjːa]" if you want it to be correct. Abū Tuyyūr ( talk) 10:00, 9 June 2021 (UTC)
Unable to find any sourcing anywhere on the web about arabic spoken in Anderska, Serbia. Also unable to locate Anderska or any information about it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Imnotabettafish ( talk • contribs) 16:51, 19 November 2014 (UTC)
English remains the main language used for official purposes and in education, but it may face competition from Arabic. [1] [2]
In 2014, Gambian president Yahya Jammeh announced that The Gambia would drop English as the official language because it is a "colonial relic" in favour of Arabic. [3] [4] However, such change was not enacted until the present day.
References
— Preceding unsigned comment added by 19:02, 21 October 2016 ( talk • contribs) 87.79.161.164 (UTC)
This article is or was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment. Further details are available
on the course page. Student editor(s):
Sanakareem20. Peer reviewers:
Shalineem.
Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT ( talk) 14:37, 16 January 2022 (UTC)
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At Arabic#Structure there is a sentence "The suras, also known as chapters of the Quran, are not placed in chronological order". The link in that sentence points to Suras which redirects to Sudra Kingdom. Since the sentence is about the Quran, the link should probably point to Surah which is the actual article on the chapters of the Quran. Alternatively the redirect at Suras could be changed to achieve the same result. 2406:5A00:EC14:B800:A9A4:3E19:E094:B9 ( talk) 01:35, 17 November 2021 (UTC)
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Boutarfa Nafia ( talk) 20:17, 29 December 2021 (UTC) "change third most to third most spoken(even though it is false because mandarin is more spoken than arabic) "
These two countries do not have any spoken dialect of Arabic of their own. Only Standard Arabic is taught and is most widespread in these areas. Only a fraction of the Arabic speakers in Djibouti and Somalia have a genuine Yemeni Arabic dialect from prior habitation in Yemen, more people only know Standard Arabic than speak Yemeni Arabic there. The Yemeni dialect of Arabic is not predominant in Djibouti and Somalia. Afar and Somali are the local vernaculars, while Standard Arabic is the main form of Arabic learned for religious and commercial reasons. I suggest changing the map and somehow reflecting this reality. AzanianPearl ( talk) 14:07, 20 January 2022 (UTC)
@ Iskandar323: Dialect suggests there is a pattern to it and unwritten rules. There is none for the Arabic of this region. It is mostly heavily accented or badly spoken Standard Arabic, not a real L1 colloquial dialect like the case is with Yemen or other areas with L1 Arabic. These maps often cause confusion because people often skim through text and look at maps. This may lead people to believe that the Yemeni Arabic dialect is predominant in Djibouti and Somalia, while when you get there you mostly only hear L2 or L3 Fusha. Perhaps it should be completely split from the Yemen association then and just call it the Somali dialect. I hope somebody reading this can make this change. AzanianPearl ( talk) 02:05, 21 January 2022 (UTC)
Pathawi I think the best solution is to split Somali from the Yemeni and Somali label on that map and give the Horn of Africa region new subcategories: Eritrean, Djiboutian, Somali. The problem however is that these are not real L1 dialects, but L1.5 or L2 dialects / accents (one may argue it could be L1 for some in Eritrea). There are various Muslim groups in Eritrea who use Arabic as a lingua franca. I personally know an Agaw (Bilen) Eritrean who speaks more Arabic with his family than he does his ethnic language (Agaw/Bilen) and he does not live in the Arab world. Some Tigre Eritreans may also be using Arabic as something in between L1 and L2, so an Eritrean 'dialect' of Arabic may be argued for. As for Djiboutian, it is an official language there on par with French. In order to avoid tribal/ethnic conflicts between Afars and Somalis the two 'neutral' languages of Arabic and French were made official instead. The trained ear can likely detect a Djiboutian dialect in that region. As for Somali, no Somalis use Arabic as an L1 or anywhere close to it, nevertheless it is an official language in both Somaliland and Somalia and people are actively encouraged to learn Arabic there for religious and commercial reasons. Given the linguistic influence of Somali on their Arabic speech one can pick up on it as well and it definitely doesn't sound like the Yemeni dialect (more like Somali phonetically influenced MSA). In sum, I suggest somebody removes the Yemeni and Somali category and creates three HOA Arabic variants (Eritrean, Djiboutian, Somali) for this map. Thank you in advance whoever is able to do it. AzanianPearl ( talk) 13:10, 29 July 2022 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: Not moved per WP:SNOW ( non-admin closure) ( t · c) buidhe 09:14, 11 February 2022 (UTC)
Arabic →
Arabic language –
WP:CONSISTENT, every other language has the word "language" after the language name
CR-1-AB (
talk)
21:18, 10 February 2022 (UTC)
In section “spread”:
“Arabic spread with the spread of Islam. Following the early Muslim conquests, Arabic gained vocabulary from Middle Persian and Turkish.”
Editor states that arabic gained vocabulary from middle persian and turkish, yet article cited states differently.
From the article:
“The professor explains: “In pre-Islamic times you find borrowings from Akkadian, Aramaic, Ethiopic, South Arabian, Greek, Latin; after the conquests, when the Arabs came into contact with other people, there is, for example, a lot of Middle Persian and Turkish, and in early Abbasid times, when you had the Bayt Al Hikma in Bagdad, where all the translations were made, there is a heavy influx of classical Greek…”
It sounds to me like the professor was underlining the influence many other languages. Furthermore, the article doesn’t state that the arabic language gained vocabulary from middle persian and turkish, more like they just “came into contact with” them.
If I’m wrong, at least put the other languages up there along with middle persian and turkish, which would better utilize the cited article.
Thank you! Asalhathlool ( talk) 21:22, 19 July 2022 (UTC)
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The article says that Arabic first emerged in the 1th century to the 4th century, but this is wrong, 1th century to 4th CE century is when Arabic script was born, but the Arabic language is much older than, Arabic language first emerged in 10th to 5th centuries BCE, even if we don’t know a lot about the language in that period, and don’t forget the Nabateans who spoke Arabic in 4th century BCE to 2th century CE (Aramaic was their official language, but their every day language was Arabic),so pleas edit it 2A02:ED0:528D:EB00:59E4:3E80:B8E5:B59F ( talk) 22:44, 7 August 2022 (UTC)
please change X to Y. — Sirdog ( talk) 04:57, 8 August 2022 (UTC)
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There are some mistakes in the article: Firstly, Qariat al faw inscription is dated back to the first century BCE not AD. Secondly Arabic is much older than than the first century AD, I mentioned that in a former edit request but I didn’t include sources, Arabic as a spoken language is at least 3000 years old but we don’t know a lot about the language in that period because nearly all survived fragments consist personal names and single proper nouns , and even the Assyrians (who are the first to mention the Arabs) mentioned Arab kings and queens of Qedar and their names were pure Arabic in the 9th century BCE , which means that the Arabic language was spoken back then, but started to be written later, Arabic started to be a written language in the second half of the first millennium BCE in different scripts than the Arabic script( like safaitic, Hismaic etc) we know today, so its wrong to say that Arabic first emerged in the first century AD, the earliest Arabic texts written in Safaitic script are dated to the 3rd century BCE while the latest to the 3rd century AD.so is more accurate to say that Arabic first emerged in the first half of the first millennium BCE but also mention that it wasn’t written back then, I hope you edit the article
Sources: 1. http://www.islamic-awareness.org/History/Islam/Inscriptions/faw.html
2. https://www.academia.edu/18470301
3. https://www.academia.edu/38100372 2A02:ED0:528D:EB00:B0B9:BB51:1A9E:87C2 ( talk) 02:01, 12 August 2022 (UTC)
"Linguists generally believe that "Old Arabic" (a collection of related dialects that constitute the precursor of Arabic) first emerged around the 1st century CE. Previously, the earliest attestation of Old Arabic was thought to be a single 1st century CE inscription in Sabaic script at Qaryat Al-Faw, in southern present-day Saudi Arabia."Linguists believe ... the same thing as they previously believed. Something is definitely off here. Iskandar323 ( talk) 17:21, 15 August 2022 (UTC)
{{
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template.
Aaron Liu (
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Arabic first appeared in the mid-ninth century BCE, Qariat al faw inscription is dated back to the 1 century BCE
http://www.islamic-awareness.org/History/Islam/Inscriptions/faw.html
https://www.academia.edu/18470301
https://www.academia.edu/38100372 Zedtased ( talk) 03:32, 14 August 2022 (UTC)
Hope you all are well. This is a continuation of the discussion under Arabic_and_Eritrea,_Djibouti_&_Somalia above. Briefly: There are three maps on this page:
I believe that we should remove the first & third of these. In theory, such maps should be very useful to Wikipedia's readers. However, it has not been possible to identify the source of the information in these maps, & it appears that some of it is incorrect. We shouldn't spread misinformation, & we should only work with reliable sources.
Wikimedia Commons user Fobos92 has made a great many very attractive maps that are used throughout Wikipedia & affiliated projects. Unfortunately, over the past years this user has ignored most questions regarding the source of information on language maps. They appear not to have had a verbal interaction on a Talk page at Wikimedia Commons since 2018. For relevant unanswered questions about the sources of linguistic maps: 2017, 2018 +, 2019 +. These dates aren't meant to criticise that user, but to emphasise that it is unlikely that answers about the source data will be forthcoming. In 2015, the user was unable to defend a map of the Balkan Romance languages because they couldn't recall the source. Similar deletion proposals based on implausible map contents & the lack of any sourcing in 2016, 2017 ( another), 2018 ( another), 2021 ( another) saw no response from this user. (In some cases the maps were deleted, while in some they were kept: Error in a map is not a reason for it to be deleted from Wikimedia Commons.) The user did participate briefly in a 2018 discussion concerning a Czech map, but did not respond to questions about source. Similarly, in a 2019 discussion of a map of Francophonie, they defended the existence of the map based on its use by sister Wiki projects, but did not respond directly to concerns about the lack of sourcing. Inaccuracy led to the removal of this user's Welsh language map from Wikipedia's Welsh language article in 2018.
Again: My point is not to criticise an editor on a sister Wiki, but to emphasise that it is unlikely that we will learn the source of these maps. Wikimedia Commons user High surv asked about the source of the Arabic dialects map in 2021. I reiterated the question about a month ago. AzanianPearl asked a question about the same map in Wikimedia Commons in January. We have not received a response in either of these locations, & I don't think we will.
On the grounds that these maps do no reflect information from a reliable source, I propose that we should delete them. In fact, I think that the argument is solid enough that I would have just done that & then explained myself on the Talk page. However, the semi-protected status of this page suggests that there's been some contentious editing here in the past, & I thought it might be worthwhile to open a conversation before deleting. An alternative approach would be to edit the files in Wikimedia Commons: It is generally better to improve than to delete. Unfortunately, I think that this is a substantive task that won't happen quickly. I think that the appropriate course of action would still be to remove the maps from this page now because they contain unsourced probable misinformation, then reintroduce them once they've been revised in accordance with reliable secondary sources. Pathawi ( talk) 12:10, 18 August 2022 (UTC)
It's been a week, so I've removed the two maps.
The map originates in Wikipediathis is what we think, it's not a fact that we can establish beyond a shadow of a doubt. M.Bitton ( talk) 14:08, 4 September 2022 (UTC)
Yes Ethnologue is far from perfect, but again, that's the best we have. If you want to improve it I suggest you join their Contributor Program: https://www.ethnologue.com/contributor-program
It's really nice because it gives you a free access to the whole website. A455bcd9 ( talk) 19:06, 4 September 2022 (UTC)
Nehaoua, could you clarify a little what you mean by realistic? The previous map also showed dialects in this manner—I'm not catching the difference in realism. Pathawi ( talk) 17:08, 25 November 2022 (UTC)
Nehaoua: Hmm… Are we looking at the same map? The map under Spoken Varieties looks to me like it only coincides with national borders in two locations where the the colours appear as diagonal stripes. According to the key to the map, these are regions where there are indeterminate scattered populations, so, for example, there are speakers of Shuwa Arabic thruout Chad, but reliable sources don't indicate where within Chad, specifically. That's what the hatched areas over those two countries mean. Otherwise, it doesn't look to me like the dialect areas match up with national borders. Is it possible that you're looking at the top map on the page, which shows countries where Arabic has official status? Pathawi ( talk) 18:03, 25 November 2022 (UTC)
The "Phonology" and "Grammar" sections currently extensively describe MSA's phonology and grammar and briefly describe colloquial varieties. We have articles about Modern Standard Arabic, Classical Arabic, and all other Varieties of Arabic (e.g. Levantine Arabic). So extended description of these varieties' phonology and grammar should be discussed there only.
So I suggest to simply delete the "Literary Arabic" and "Colloquial varieties" subsections of "Phonology" and "Grammar". These sections are largely unsourced anyway.
Instead, we should have a few paragraphs about the general common features of all Arabic varieties, based on reliable sources.
What do you think? A455bcd9 ( talk) 14:33, 6 September 2022 (UTC)
Under Arabic#Phonology, it is claimed that Arabic has a Voiced Glottal Fricative ( ɦ). Is this meant to be ه ( hāʾ)? I believe hāʾ is realized as a Voiceless Glottal Fricative ( h) in almost all varieties of Arabic. The independent Arabic phonology page also describes this sound as voiceless.
-- human1011 ( talk) 18:04, 21 September 2022 (UTC)
References