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I'd like to see us add a religion section to the Ann Arbor article. The city was the birthplace of The Word of God community in the late 70's/early 80's which is WIDELY considered to be the progenitors of the charismatic Catholic movement worldwide. Plus, there's this whole hostility towards Domino's Tom Monaghan drama which ultimately resulted in him choosing to move much of his operations to Naples Florida. The underlying subtext was the local government's antipathy for Monaghan's conservative politics and in-your-face Catholicism. Big Daddy 14:58, 14 September 2005 (UTC)
The only published work I could quickly find dealing with any Monaghan-related subjects is: Gordon Pritchard Bugbee, _Domino's mansion: Thomas Monaghan, Gunnar Birkerts and the spirit of Frank Lloyd Wright_, with foreword by Vincent Scully (Troy, Mich.: Planning Research Organization for a Better Environment Press; distributed by Southern Illinois University Press, 1988). (Looks, obviously, to be a piece of architectural criticism.) Unfortunately, I couldn't find anything on the Word of God movement. Ropcat 20:09, 16 September 2005 (UTC)
I read through the discussions and found that many of the ideas are viable. Nevertheless, I don't believe a lot of materials on religion can be placed in culture, given that in my experience unless one were involved with a religious group, religion doesn't play a major role in Ann Arbor cultural life (to me, Ann Arbor resembles Boston, Massachusetts and Berkeley, California, where religion isn't the primary focus in life, if at all). Nevertheless, major religious movements and figures can be mentioned in history while the religious makeup of the city can be mentioned in demographics. I agree with the idea of separate articles for Word of God and Ave Maria (law school and foundation). Concerning resources for Word of God, websites for associated groups could be used for a basic overview but the details have to be scrutinized before they are added (I saw a lot of conflict over Opus Dei over details about that group). Currently, I am in the middle of other things outside Wikipedia, so my ability to research and add new material over the long-haul is, at the moment, limited. However, I will still monitor this article and copyedit any new additions so that those passages will meld well with the rest of the article. Pentawing 05:26, 30 September 2005 (UTC)
The international organization that is closely connected with the Word of God is at the following link: http://www.swordofthespirit.net/website/aboutus.htm You can find their statement of purpose, as well links to other communities similar to the Word of God. The actual Word of God is no longer part of the Sword of the Spirit, but most of the communities are similar to the original Word of God community so you can see what their original purpose was. But if you e-mail Steve B. Clark, he was one of the founders and he can give you lots of accurate information if he isn't too busy. I'm not sure what his e-mail is, but he is part of a large lay organization of Christian celibate men called the Servants of the Word, and if you e-mail Don Schwager, he can probably put you in touch with Steve Clark. His e-mail is dschwager@rc.net The Sword of the Spirit website has tons of information on Christian communities around the world, so hopefully this will help. Don't bother mentioning my name to Don Schwager because he probably doesn't know who I am, but Steve Clark should. God bless.
I notice that anonymous user 65.7.205.127 has just made some additions to the last paragraph of the history section, dealing with the Greenbelt. However, I find these a bit confusing and maybe misleading. The user notes that the city is only permitted to buy development rights, but I was under the impression that the city could buy either development rights, or buy the land outright, as it saw fit. Also, the addition of the last two sentences to the paragraph is a bit misleading. Here are the sentences: The Greenbelt has been particularly divisive, because the purchase of merely the development rights does not allow city residents actually to use the undeveloped land in any fashion. Furthermore, some have complained this is merely a thinly veiled attempt by residents to increase their housing values and to limit the access of the poor to Ann Arbor area property ownership. The first sentence is misleading because, as I understand it, the ferocity of the debate has had little to do with whether or not residents can use the Greenbelt land for, say, recreation purposes. The second sentence just seems kind of POV unless opposing viewpoints are incorporated. Overall, given that this is supposed to be a very quick trawl through the city's history, I think that the paragraph worked better before the new material was added. Ropcat 23:10, 6 September 2005 (UTC)
Why is this graph blank? MarkBuckles 02:10, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
I reverted the infobox photo put up by User:Shengzhoumi2 to the one by User:Gsgeorge. The newer one was a bit weak in terms of composition and overall quality, with nearly half of the frame occupied by trees and other greenery. It is Tree Town, but I think that users looking at the page would want to see a more striking photo, a better and more aesthetically appealing shot of the actual skyline. That, and the fact that the older photo had all of the legal stuff sorted out, but that is besides the point of overall quality. If anyone has any problems with this let me know here. Fedallah 23:50, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
I've heard rumors that the town was named for a prostitute? Sounds crazy to me, is that true? -- AW 23:04, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
I've never heard that but it would be a juicy addition if true. Seems unlikely given the fact of the founders' wives' names. I don't suppose you have a reference? Rees11 00:41, 2 December 2006 (UTC)
As the Home of the University of Michigan, Ann Arbor attracts some negative attention from Michigan's rivals in athletics. The phrase "Ann Arbor is a whore" is sometimes used. I believe Awiseman is referring to this, either deliberately or unintentionally. 67.108.84.162 21:37, 9 January 2007 (UTC)Anon.
Is there a reason that "Harvest Mission Community Church, a multiethnic church in Ann Arbor" got put onto the External Links? If not, let's take it off, because clearly every church in Ann Arbor should not be noted among the general-info sites in this list. Thanks. Ropcat 06:18, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
I removed Google from the list of major employers. I assume "major" means "large number of employees."
Is Domino's really located in the city? I always thought it was just outside the city. I can't find a map of the city limits right now but the official city web site says the address of Domino's Farms (Frank Lloyd Wright Dr) is not in the city. Rees11 03:56, 23 January 2007 (UTC)
Significant omissions from the list of common nicknames for the city are "The People's Republic of Ann Arbor" and "Berkeley East."
WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA! __earth ( Talk) 09:38, 25 February 2007 (UTC)
I added a sentence about Ann Arbor consistently ranking high on annual 'best places to live' lists. I thought this was important for people looking to move to the area and wondering about the overall quality of life. SueA2 ( talk) 17:49, 2 February 2009 (UTC)
I removed the part about a trolley to Briarwood. First, it's wrong, this was going to be light rail, not a trolley, and the tracks are not disused. Second, it's obsolete, this has not been discussed in years as far as I know. Feel free to put this back in if you have a source for this information. Rees11 11:39, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
UMS: Is this really a performing arts group? They don't perform themselves, they bring in groups to perform. Maybe I'm being too nit-picky. If we do mention them, shouldn't we give the full name rather than the acronym? Do we really want to say they're 129 years old, which means someone will have to edit the article and bump the age once a year? Better to say what year they were founded.
"Ann Arbor ranks first among U.S. cities in the number of booksellers and books sold per capita." This oft-repeated claim was debunked in a story in the (I think) February Observer about Ann Arbor myths. Rees11 16:32, 4 April 2007 (UTC)
It was actually January, not February. I don't have the title but it's a story about Ann Arbor myths and legends. I'm afraid I don't care quite enough to check the sources myself, but I thought I should mention it here. Rees11 01:10, 5 April 2007 (UTC)
Here's what they say on their website: "While proudly affiliated with the University of Michigan and housed on the U-M campus, UMS is a separate not-for-profit organization that supports itself from ticket sales, grants, contributions, and endowment income." Ropcat 03:29, 5 April 2007 (UTC)
I removed the new list of sister cities. I don't think we need two lists, and the new one was incorrect; Peterborough linked to the one in England, for example. Rees11 16:56, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
OK, I don't get it. The duplicate list of sister cities has re-appeared. I'm going to remove it again. If the current list is wrong, fix it. If it's in the wrong place, move it. I don't think we need two lists, and if we do, they should at least be the same list. Rees11 14:16, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
Someone dropped Remedios from the list and added a ref listing only six. I tried to track this down but the only thing I could find in the Council minutes was an item discussing Remedios on the agenda in November 2003, no resolution actually adding it. And the reference that's been added only lists six. So I have modified the text to match the reference. If anyone can find a reference for Remedios, please add it. Rees11 ( talk)
Ok, I found it. I didn't look far enough in the minutes from the 6 Nov 2003 meeting. The vote happened after midnight. I will add Remedios back in to the list and add the Council minutes as a ref (if I can figure out the correct ref). Rees11 ( talk)
I would not say that State Street and South U are part of downtown. To me, downtown ends and campus begins at Division. But I don't have a reference so maybe it's just me.
I also changed the part where it says the Arb is near downtown but again I have no reference, so I will yield to majority opinion on this if everyone else thinks I'm wrong. Rees11 16:57, 26 April 2007 (UTC)
I just checked the City's Downtown Development Plan and it covers all the way to the corner of South U and Washtenaw, so I'll shut up now. But thanks for the confirmation that I'm not the only one who thinks downtown stops at Division. Rees11 16:49, 28 April 2007 (UTC)
Recently, someone added the following passage to the article:
Though I am familiar with the two stores, the problem is that I can't find any online sources describing them in detail. Recently, there is a Wikipedia user who is demanding citations for many articles, including those that are featured (the above passage has no citations). Hence, can anyone try to dig up some other sources that can be used as citations? Thanks. Pentawing Talk 23:10, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
Agreed, and I would add that almost any city is going to have "locally owned, decades-old unique retail survivors," so I'm not sure these should even be listed. If we start listing them, where do we stop? Rees11 22:25, 9 May 2007 (UTC)
"Retail tourist attractions"? Sam's is a nice store (I shop there myself), but there's nothing particularly unique about it. The clothes that they sell are also sold by large chains and catalogs. And there are a half dozen other non-chain, small clothing stores downtown. BobDively 23:37, 9 May 2007 (UTC)
I grew up in A2 in the 60's/70's (but left nearly 30 years ago). During that time, Herb David's Guitar Studio (I hear that it has moved) was not only a cool second-floor practice room space where many talented local players gave lessons and rehearsed, but a luthier shop that did very sophisticated craftwork and some high profile guitar repairs/customization. Many well-known musicians of the era from SE Michigan and elsewhere were connected with the shop. Reputation said that John Lennon had some guitars worked on there in the "Free John Sinclair" days; Bob Seger hanging around, as well as Fred Smith, Iggy, and I believe Kris Kristofferson. Anyway, Herb David should probably get some mention. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.197.93.206 ( talk) 08:11, 20 July 2008 (UTC)
I see someone added Gabriel Richard to the list of Ann Arbor private schools. But it's not actually in Ann Arbor. Does it really belong here? Rees11 12:52, 11 July 2007 (UTC)
Reese11 - Gabrieal Richard is attached to St. Thomas Church, only blocks from downtown Ann Arbor, and certainly within city limits. Ewhite77 17:31, 11 July 2007 (UTC)
I'm not sure what you mean by "attached to." I can't find any mention of St. Thomas on their web site. They appear to be administered directly by the Lansing Diocese, not by St. Thomas. And the building is not anywhere near St. Thomas. Rees11 11:36, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
It must've moved. When I went to St. Thomas elementary (admittedly ~ 20 years ago), Richard was connected to the actual building of St. Thomas School (directly next to the church itself). From your report, it sounds like that is no longer the case.-- Ewhite77 18:00, 21 September 2007 (UTC)
They moved out of town a few years ago. I'm not sure what's in the building now but it's not a school. Rees11 14:45, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
I took out Gabriel Richard. Rees11 02:15, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
I had heard years ago (I live on the East Coast of the US) that if abortion were to be made illegal again in Michigan, that the maximum penalty if a woman were to undergo an abortion in Ann Arbor would be $5. 216.179.123.52 14:42, 3 August 2007 (UTC)
I grew up in AA, and this sounds very much like an urban legend. Ewhite77 15:52, 3 August 2007 (UTC)
Well, it is not entirely symbolic. It is indeed a part of the City Charter, and it is modeled on the $5 pot law. In essence, it is a charter amendment passed in April 1990 that declares that if abortion ever becomes illegal in Michigan (i.e. state anti-abortion law becomes prosecutable after Roe is overturned), it will also become a civil infraction in Ann Arbor, subject to a $5 fine. Furthermore, the city attorney may only prosecute under the Ann Arbor civil-infraction code, and may not refer the complaint to any other authority for prosecution. So it appears that the original commentator is pretty much correct. Please see the following two USA Today articles, along with the 1990 amendment to the City Charter. Whether this would stand up in court is unclear.
Ropcat 06:44, 4 August 2007 (UTC)
But Ropcat the law is not aimed at the woman or provider, they are aimed at maybe protesters? Or if in the event RvW overturned those who report ilegall activity with a $5 fine so all in all misleading disscusion unless I mis something? —Preceding unsigned comment added by F Tech ( talk • contribs) 06:04, 13 October 2007 (UTC) The current Michigan law -- which exists on the books and would become active if Roe v Wade were overturned -- punishes the provider. This ordinance, as part of the City Charter, protects providers, so access to abortion remains possible. Sabra Briere —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.40.57.40 ( talk) 04:06, 10 July 2010 (UTC)
I know nothing, but this seems notable. -- AVRS 10:09, 18 September 2007 (UTC)
Do we really need so much detail on the major highways? Also, US-12 doesn't actually go through Ann Arbor, does it? Rees11 ( talk) 18:29, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
Since you are slated for front page, I decided to review the page. We had some interesting and odd comments upon our front page FA a few days ago for Minneapolis.
That's it! If you could improve the first few sections, this page is going to be solid. At the moment, I am a bit worried you will lose FA status on next review. The short intro, while might have worked back in the day, is not going to fly at all and in fact is an indicator of a weak city page. See San Francisco for probably the best FA City article out there. .:davumaya:. 09:19, 30 July 2008 (UTC)
I would just like to say that this is one of the best articles I've read. Well done!-- Nick54321blastoff ( talk) 02:10, 5 August 2008 (UTC)
That's a song lyric dating back at least to the sixties, probably earlier. The Ann Arbor Area Convention & Visitors Bureau claims, "There is only one Ann Arbor in the world..."
That may be so, but Pardes Hanna translates as "Ann Orchard," close enough for horseshoes. __ Just plain Bill ( talk) 03:59, 5 August 2008 (UTC)
Why is the location (coordinates) so precise? =Nichalp «Talk»= 12:08, 5 August 2008 (UTC)
Thanks for the article. Ann Arbor is a lovely city, based on my recollections of a visit there many years ago.
I'm curious about this sentence from the opening paragraph: "It is the state's seventh largest city with a population of 114,024 as of the 2000 census, of which 36,892 (32%) are college or graduate students".
As the University of Michigan is the largest educational institution, why are "university students" not mentioned? It seems to me that "university or college students" would better fit the situation. Graduate students are (almost always) "university students" I believe.
Thanks, Wanderer57 ( talk) 13:37, 5 August 2008 (UTC)
GO A2! __earth ( Talk) 13:50, 5 August 2008 (UTC)
If anyone cares, there is substantial evidence for the "tree town" nickname. First, if you want something official, the City government's internal events newsletter is the Tree Town Log. Second, try the Google test. There are more than twice as many hits for "town" as for "city." Finally, the Ann Arbor News is not searchable, but the Daily is, and there are plenty of hits that could be used as references:
+site:michigandaily.com "tree town" "tree+town"&btnG=Search
The confusion may stem from Ann Arbor's designation as a Tree City USA by the Arbor Day Foundation. Rees11 ( talk) 18:39, 2 September 2008 (UTC)
The weather statistics are currently drawn from stats for Ypsilanti. Stats for Ann Arbor should be drawn from a source about Ann Arbor, such as those provided by MSU's Ann Arbor weather station, no? Vassyana ( talk) 18:18, 21 September 2008 (UTC)
Generally, I am not a fan of photo galleries within articles. Hence, I have moved the gallery here. In any case, I believe that the images should be transferred to Wikimedia Commons (as the images are under GFDL). Pentawing Talk 04:55, 28 December 2008 (UTC)
The religion section of this article needs serious expansion, or deletion. Right now it's like some Every Three Weekly send-up of the arrogance of the large population of undergraduate Jews from the East Coast. 145.116.8.87 ( talk) 04:42, 25 March 2009 (UTC)
Agreed. In the meantime, I have moved the section here in hopes that someone will take the time to expand it further. If the section is to be included, I suggest that it be placed in the demographics section. Pentawing Talk 04:12, 24 August 2009 (UTC)
According to this WP article, Ann Arbor was founded in January 1824 by John Allen and Elisha Rumsey. I've done some research on the early history of Ann Arbor and I couldn't find any evidence that it was founded in January 1824. In fact, Allen and Rumsey chose the site now know as Ann Arbor in early February 1824. It is better to say that Ann Arbor was founded in 1824. I've erased January from the lead and history sections. AdjustShift ( talk) 18:03, 4 April 2009 (UTC)
These passages are relevant to the article, yet are in need of citation. I think I have found an article that can support these passages, but I cannot be able to access the full article (the article is entitled Soulless Cities: Ann Arbor, the Cutting Edge of Discipline: Postfordism, Postmodernism, and the New Bourgeoisie by Corey Dolgon). Pentawing Talk 01:36, 25 August 2009 (UTC)
I suspect tourism is the city's biggest industry now but I have been unable to find any good sources. Rees11 ( talk) 04:03, 25 August 2009 (UTC)
For anyone interested, I took a number of photos of historic properties in Ann Arbor. They're all on Commons at [2]. Andrew Jameson ( talk) 18:56, 19 June 2010 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: page moved per discussion below. The only opposition seems to be related to a guideline that is under discussion, and it is discussions such as this that ultimately inform the guideline, and not the other way around. - GTBacchus( talk) 23:22, 26 December 2010 (UTC)
Ann Arbor, Michigan →
Ann Arbor — "Ann Arbor" already redirects here. Why not just simply call the page "Ann Arbor" instead of "Ann Arbor, Michigan"? Just like
Detroit,
Minneapolis, and
Milwaukee don't include the name of the state because they're so well-known, so should Ann Arbor.
User:Krauseaj
15:06, 18 December 2010 (UTC)
Couldn't we find a more pleasant photo of Ann Arbor then the billboards/back of buildings pic that pops up on Facebook? Not really sure how this works, but I would prefer a scene of downtown, the river or maybe the Arb... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.93.1.248 ( talk) 21:28, 28 December 2010 (UTC)
So once this issue was opened up to a much larger participation than 4 editors during the holiday, it becomes very evident that there was really no WP:CONSENSUS to ever move from Ann Arbor, Michigan in the first place. The phantom "3 to 1" consensus that was used to justify the move has utterly vanished. In fact, looking at the discussion above far, far, FAR less than 75% of the editors who have voiced their thoughts above have opposed a revert. (Roughly estimating it looks more like more like only around 35% support keeping it at Ann Arbor). If anything this shows the foolishness of allowing a "3 person consensus" override a guideline. Since this discussion really seems to be dealing with a faulty close, is there another forum that this should be taken to? Agne Cheese/ Wine 06:42, 7 January 2011 (UTC)
And yes, the effects of the mandatory comma convention which once maybe had consensus support (that's arguable) are still with us, but consensus support for that convention does not now exist. An argument based on following a convention not supported by consensus is pretty weak, and a convention not supported by consensus is about all that supports the argument of those who opposed the initial move, and those who favor this revert move. Such weak arguments should be ignored because they don't reflect consensus.
In contrast, the arguments in favor of the original move and in opposition to this revert move are based on naming policy for which consensus support presumably does exist (there is no evidence of lack of consensus support for that policy, as there is for lack of consensus support for blind following of the comma convention). -- Born2cycle ( talk) 21:21, 11 January 2011 (UTC)
It is true that in AfD discussions "no consensus" means "no change" (don't delete), but that's not nearly as often true in RM discussions (some admins operate per AfD rules in the "no consensus" situation, but many do not). In any case, what's more important is how consensus is determined. When admins determine consensus by weighing the arguments being made based on how well they follow policy and guidelines, regardless of how much support there happens to be for each argument among the necessarily few who happen to be participating in any one discussion, then it is much less likely to find that there is "no consensus". For example, based on the dearth of argument based in policy and guidelines that favor this move, such an admin would find that consensus clearly opposes this move. -- Born2cycle ( talk) 21:57, 11 January 2011 (UTC)
And again, the point was that had this discussion taken place when the proposal was first made to move from "Ann Arbor, Michigan" to "Ann Arbor" (which it would've had if it been announced like this discussion was) that admin likely would've come up with the very conclusion you speak of, that being to oppose the move. Please don't pretend like your argument has this huge amount of support over the opposing view when it doesn't; both sides have presented policies, guidelines, precedent, and logic that legitimately support their viewpoint, hence the current stalemate here and at WP:CITIES. Regardless of my position on the naming issue, the initial move on this article was done without proper consensus, particularly in light of the standing convention (whether you agree it's foundation was legitimate or not, it was the common convention) which is mainly why I support reversion. -- JonRidinger ( talk) 22:17, 11 January 2011 (UTC)
The above #Revert move move proposal was improperly closed and I've requested that the decision be reviewed by an uninvolved admin.
-- Born2cycle ( talk) 20:14, 16 January 2011 (UTC)
I'm happy enough for my earlier closure to be reviewed, but it seems to me that the real decision to make is what the page should be called. If I was overly hasty in closing the December discussion - which it seems I may have been - then seeing this discussion result in a move back to Ann Arbor, Michigan will make that clear, and I will proceed having learned a little bit more about the community's stand on naming conventions.
Please remember that move discussions are different from AfDs, and a "no consensus" doesn't result in "no move" every time. We actually have to use one title or another one, and RM closers generally understand that they are to choose the best title, based on arguments presented in the discussion. - GTBacchus( talk) 01:55, 17 January 2011 (UTC)
Comment: In praise of GTBacchus contribution to this talk page. It's in the best spirit of Wikipedia. Alanscottwalker ( talk) 18:37, 17 January 2011 (UTC)
Please comment at Talk:Michigan_Wolverines#Solid_Maize_Block_M_vs._split_block_M.-- TonyTheTiger ( T/ C/ BIO/ WP:CHICAGO/ WP:FOUR) 15:20, 19 January 2011 (UTC)
The discussion at Wikipedia talk:Naming conventions (geographic names)/Archives/2011/January/Archives/2011/February#RFC: United States cities) has now been closed, with the conclusion that "consensus is in favour of maintaining the status quo" (that is, reaffirming the existing naming convention of "city, state"). Based on that, I request that this discussion also be closed and the cityname moved back to Ann Arbor, Michigan - as was done at Talk:Carmel-by-the-Sea, California. Thanks. -- MelanieN ( talk) 16:15, 21 January 2011 (UTC)
See WP:TITLE#Explict conventions. The policy defers to the guidelines. — Arthur Rubin (talk) 21:57, 22 January 2011 (UTC)
Anyway, I know WP:JDLI is just an essay, but do you not agree with it where it says, "Well-argued statements do beat personal, subjective tastes.", and "Consensus is determined not by the percentage of the participants in support or opposed to a given position, but by the quality of the arguments posted, evaluated in terms of how well they are based in policy, guidelines and conventions"?
Arthur, unless you're suggesting that "Ann Arbor, Michigan" is not a common name for that topic but a "specialized name", in the way that Sequoia sempervirens is a specialized name for the topic commonly known as Coast redwood, I don't see how WP:TITLE#Explicit conventions applies here since it's talking about "the use of titles that are not strictly the common name" which it refers to as "specialized names" as used in the conventions for articles about flora and medicine. I really don't see how it applies to any guideline at WP:PLACES (or WP:NCROY, for that matter).
Agne, many RM decisions are made with as small as, or even smaller, turnouts than participated in the earlier discussion about naming this article. This one was questioned, but what is abundantly clear is that with the article at the concise name, a consensus does not support moving it to the overprecise title. -- Born2cycle ( talk) 23:35, 22 January 2011 (UTC)
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 | Archive 3 | Archive 4 |
I'd like to see us add a religion section to the Ann Arbor article. The city was the birthplace of The Word of God community in the late 70's/early 80's which is WIDELY considered to be the progenitors of the charismatic Catholic movement worldwide. Plus, there's this whole hostility towards Domino's Tom Monaghan drama which ultimately resulted in him choosing to move much of his operations to Naples Florida. The underlying subtext was the local government's antipathy for Monaghan's conservative politics and in-your-face Catholicism. Big Daddy 14:58, 14 September 2005 (UTC)
The only published work I could quickly find dealing with any Monaghan-related subjects is: Gordon Pritchard Bugbee, _Domino's mansion: Thomas Monaghan, Gunnar Birkerts and the spirit of Frank Lloyd Wright_, with foreword by Vincent Scully (Troy, Mich.: Planning Research Organization for a Better Environment Press; distributed by Southern Illinois University Press, 1988). (Looks, obviously, to be a piece of architectural criticism.) Unfortunately, I couldn't find anything on the Word of God movement. Ropcat 20:09, 16 September 2005 (UTC)
I read through the discussions and found that many of the ideas are viable. Nevertheless, I don't believe a lot of materials on religion can be placed in culture, given that in my experience unless one were involved with a religious group, religion doesn't play a major role in Ann Arbor cultural life (to me, Ann Arbor resembles Boston, Massachusetts and Berkeley, California, where religion isn't the primary focus in life, if at all). Nevertheless, major religious movements and figures can be mentioned in history while the religious makeup of the city can be mentioned in demographics. I agree with the idea of separate articles for Word of God and Ave Maria (law school and foundation). Concerning resources for Word of God, websites for associated groups could be used for a basic overview but the details have to be scrutinized before they are added (I saw a lot of conflict over Opus Dei over details about that group). Currently, I am in the middle of other things outside Wikipedia, so my ability to research and add new material over the long-haul is, at the moment, limited. However, I will still monitor this article and copyedit any new additions so that those passages will meld well with the rest of the article. Pentawing 05:26, 30 September 2005 (UTC)
The international organization that is closely connected with the Word of God is at the following link: http://www.swordofthespirit.net/website/aboutus.htm You can find their statement of purpose, as well links to other communities similar to the Word of God. The actual Word of God is no longer part of the Sword of the Spirit, but most of the communities are similar to the original Word of God community so you can see what their original purpose was. But if you e-mail Steve B. Clark, he was one of the founders and he can give you lots of accurate information if he isn't too busy. I'm not sure what his e-mail is, but he is part of a large lay organization of Christian celibate men called the Servants of the Word, and if you e-mail Don Schwager, he can probably put you in touch with Steve Clark. His e-mail is dschwager@rc.net The Sword of the Spirit website has tons of information on Christian communities around the world, so hopefully this will help. Don't bother mentioning my name to Don Schwager because he probably doesn't know who I am, but Steve Clark should. God bless.
I notice that anonymous user 65.7.205.127 has just made some additions to the last paragraph of the history section, dealing with the Greenbelt. However, I find these a bit confusing and maybe misleading. The user notes that the city is only permitted to buy development rights, but I was under the impression that the city could buy either development rights, or buy the land outright, as it saw fit. Also, the addition of the last two sentences to the paragraph is a bit misleading. Here are the sentences: The Greenbelt has been particularly divisive, because the purchase of merely the development rights does not allow city residents actually to use the undeveloped land in any fashion. Furthermore, some have complained this is merely a thinly veiled attempt by residents to increase their housing values and to limit the access of the poor to Ann Arbor area property ownership. The first sentence is misleading because, as I understand it, the ferocity of the debate has had little to do with whether or not residents can use the Greenbelt land for, say, recreation purposes. The second sentence just seems kind of POV unless opposing viewpoints are incorporated. Overall, given that this is supposed to be a very quick trawl through the city's history, I think that the paragraph worked better before the new material was added. Ropcat 23:10, 6 September 2005 (UTC)
Why is this graph blank? MarkBuckles 02:10, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
I reverted the infobox photo put up by User:Shengzhoumi2 to the one by User:Gsgeorge. The newer one was a bit weak in terms of composition and overall quality, with nearly half of the frame occupied by trees and other greenery. It is Tree Town, but I think that users looking at the page would want to see a more striking photo, a better and more aesthetically appealing shot of the actual skyline. That, and the fact that the older photo had all of the legal stuff sorted out, but that is besides the point of overall quality. If anyone has any problems with this let me know here. Fedallah 23:50, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
I've heard rumors that the town was named for a prostitute? Sounds crazy to me, is that true? -- AW 23:04, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
I've never heard that but it would be a juicy addition if true. Seems unlikely given the fact of the founders' wives' names. I don't suppose you have a reference? Rees11 00:41, 2 December 2006 (UTC)
As the Home of the University of Michigan, Ann Arbor attracts some negative attention from Michigan's rivals in athletics. The phrase "Ann Arbor is a whore" is sometimes used. I believe Awiseman is referring to this, either deliberately or unintentionally. 67.108.84.162 21:37, 9 January 2007 (UTC)Anon.
Is there a reason that "Harvest Mission Community Church, a multiethnic church in Ann Arbor" got put onto the External Links? If not, let's take it off, because clearly every church in Ann Arbor should not be noted among the general-info sites in this list. Thanks. Ropcat 06:18, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
I removed Google from the list of major employers. I assume "major" means "large number of employees."
Is Domino's really located in the city? I always thought it was just outside the city. I can't find a map of the city limits right now but the official city web site says the address of Domino's Farms (Frank Lloyd Wright Dr) is not in the city. Rees11 03:56, 23 January 2007 (UTC)
Significant omissions from the list of common nicknames for the city are "The People's Republic of Ann Arbor" and "Berkeley East."
WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA! __earth ( Talk) 09:38, 25 February 2007 (UTC)
I added a sentence about Ann Arbor consistently ranking high on annual 'best places to live' lists. I thought this was important for people looking to move to the area and wondering about the overall quality of life. SueA2 ( talk) 17:49, 2 February 2009 (UTC)
I removed the part about a trolley to Briarwood. First, it's wrong, this was going to be light rail, not a trolley, and the tracks are not disused. Second, it's obsolete, this has not been discussed in years as far as I know. Feel free to put this back in if you have a source for this information. Rees11 11:39, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
UMS: Is this really a performing arts group? They don't perform themselves, they bring in groups to perform. Maybe I'm being too nit-picky. If we do mention them, shouldn't we give the full name rather than the acronym? Do we really want to say they're 129 years old, which means someone will have to edit the article and bump the age once a year? Better to say what year they were founded.
"Ann Arbor ranks first among U.S. cities in the number of booksellers and books sold per capita." This oft-repeated claim was debunked in a story in the (I think) February Observer about Ann Arbor myths. Rees11 16:32, 4 April 2007 (UTC)
It was actually January, not February. I don't have the title but it's a story about Ann Arbor myths and legends. I'm afraid I don't care quite enough to check the sources myself, but I thought I should mention it here. Rees11 01:10, 5 April 2007 (UTC)
Here's what they say on their website: "While proudly affiliated with the University of Michigan and housed on the U-M campus, UMS is a separate not-for-profit organization that supports itself from ticket sales, grants, contributions, and endowment income." Ropcat 03:29, 5 April 2007 (UTC)
I removed the new list of sister cities. I don't think we need two lists, and the new one was incorrect; Peterborough linked to the one in England, for example. Rees11 16:56, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
OK, I don't get it. The duplicate list of sister cities has re-appeared. I'm going to remove it again. If the current list is wrong, fix it. If it's in the wrong place, move it. I don't think we need two lists, and if we do, they should at least be the same list. Rees11 14:16, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
Someone dropped Remedios from the list and added a ref listing only six. I tried to track this down but the only thing I could find in the Council minutes was an item discussing Remedios on the agenda in November 2003, no resolution actually adding it. And the reference that's been added only lists six. So I have modified the text to match the reference. If anyone can find a reference for Remedios, please add it. Rees11 ( talk)
Ok, I found it. I didn't look far enough in the minutes from the 6 Nov 2003 meeting. The vote happened after midnight. I will add Remedios back in to the list and add the Council minutes as a ref (if I can figure out the correct ref). Rees11 ( talk)
I would not say that State Street and South U are part of downtown. To me, downtown ends and campus begins at Division. But I don't have a reference so maybe it's just me.
I also changed the part where it says the Arb is near downtown but again I have no reference, so I will yield to majority opinion on this if everyone else thinks I'm wrong. Rees11 16:57, 26 April 2007 (UTC)
I just checked the City's Downtown Development Plan and it covers all the way to the corner of South U and Washtenaw, so I'll shut up now. But thanks for the confirmation that I'm not the only one who thinks downtown stops at Division. Rees11 16:49, 28 April 2007 (UTC)
Recently, someone added the following passage to the article:
Though I am familiar with the two stores, the problem is that I can't find any online sources describing them in detail. Recently, there is a Wikipedia user who is demanding citations for many articles, including those that are featured (the above passage has no citations). Hence, can anyone try to dig up some other sources that can be used as citations? Thanks. Pentawing Talk 23:10, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
Agreed, and I would add that almost any city is going to have "locally owned, decades-old unique retail survivors," so I'm not sure these should even be listed. If we start listing them, where do we stop? Rees11 22:25, 9 May 2007 (UTC)
"Retail tourist attractions"? Sam's is a nice store (I shop there myself), but there's nothing particularly unique about it. The clothes that they sell are also sold by large chains and catalogs. And there are a half dozen other non-chain, small clothing stores downtown. BobDively 23:37, 9 May 2007 (UTC)
I grew up in A2 in the 60's/70's (but left nearly 30 years ago). During that time, Herb David's Guitar Studio (I hear that it has moved) was not only a cool second-floor practice room space where many talented local players gave lessons and rehearsed, but a luthier shop that did very sophisticated craftwork and some high profile guitar repairs/customization. Many well-known musicians of the era from SE Michigan and elsewhere were connected with the shop. Reputation said that John Lennon had some guitars worked on there in the "Free John Sinclair" days; Bob Seger hanging around, as well as Fred Smith, Iggy, and I believe Kris Kristofferson. Anyway, Herb David should probably get some mention. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.197.93.206 ( talk) 08:11, 20 July 2008 (UTC)
I see someone added Gabriel Richard to the list of Ann Arbor private schools. But it's not actually in Ann Arbor. Does it really belong here? Rees11 12:52, 11 July 2007 (UTC)
Reese11 - Gabrieal Richard is attached to St. Thomas Church, only blocks from downtown Ann Arbor, and certainly within city limits. Ewhite77 17:31, 11 July 2007 (UTC)
I'm not sure what you mean by "attached to." I can't find any mention of St. Thomas on their web site. They appear to be administered directly by the Lansing Diocese, not by St. Thomas. And the building is not anywhere near St. Thomas. Rees11 11:36, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
It must've moved. When I went to St. Thomas elementary (admittedly ~ 20 years ago), Richard was connected to the actual building of St. Thomas School (directly next to the church itself). From your report, it sounds like that is no longer the case.-- Ewhite77 18:00, 21 September 2007 (UTC)
They moved out of town a few years ago. I'm not sure what's in the building now but it's not a school. Rees11 14:45, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
I took out Gabriel Richard. Rees11 02:15, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
I had heard years ago (I live on the East Coast of the US) that if abortion were to be made illegal again in Michigan, that the maximum penalty if a woman were to undergo an abortion in Ann Arbor would be $5. 216.179.123.52 14:42, 3 August 2007 (UTC)
I grew up in AA, and this sounds very much like an urban legend. Ewhite77 15:52, 3 August 2007 (UTC)
Well, it is not entirely symbolic. It is indeed a part of the City Charter, and it is modeled on the $5 pot law. In essence, it is a charter amendment passed in April 1990 that declares that if abortion ever becomes illegal in Michigan (i.e. state anti-abortion law becomes prosecutable after Roe is overturned), it will also become a civil infraction in Ann Arbor, subject to a $5 fine. Furthermore, the city attorney may only prosecute under the Ann Arbor civil-infraction code, and may not refer the complaint to any other authority for prosecution. So it appears that the original commentator is pretty much correct. Please see the following two USA Today articles, along with the 1990 amendment to the City Charter. Whether this would stand up in court is unclear.
Ropcat 06:44, 4 August 2007 (UTC)
But Ropcat the law is not aimed at the woman or provider, they are aimed at maybe protesters? Or if in the event RvW overturned those who report ilegall activity with a $5 fine so all in all misleading disscusion unless I mis something? —Preceding unsigned comment added by F Tech ( talk • contribs) 06:04, 13 October 2007 (UTC) The current Michigan law -- which exists on the books and would become active if Roe v Wade were overturned -- punishes the provider. This ordinance, as part of the City Charter, protects providers, so access to abortion remains possible. Sabra Briere —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.40.57.40 ( talk) 04:06, 10 July 2010 (UTC)
I know nothing, but this seems notable. -- AVRS 10:09, 18 September 2007 (UTC)
Do we really need so much detail on the major highways? Also, US-12 doesn't actually go through Ann Arbor, does it? Rees11 ( talk) 18:29, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
Since you are slated for front page, I decided to review the page. We had some interesting and odd comments upon our front page FA a few days ago for Minneapolis.
That's it! If you could improve the first few sections, this page is going to be solid. At the moment, I am a bit worried you will lose FA status on next review. The short intro, while might have worked back in the day, is not going to fly at all and in fact is an indicator of a weak city page. See San Francisco for probably the best FA City article out there. .:davumaya:. 09:19, 30 July 2008 (UTC)
I would just like to say that this is one of the best articles I've read. Well done!-- Nick54321blastoff ( talk) 02:10, 5 August 2008 (UTC)
That's a song lyric dating back at least to the sixties, probably earlier. The Ann Arbor Area Convention & Visitors Bureau claims, "There is only one Ann Arbor in the world..."
That may be so, but Pardes Hanna translates as "Ann Orchard," close enough for horseshoes. __ Just plain Bill ( talk) 03:59, 5 August 2008 (UTC)
Why is the location (coordinates) so precise? =Nichalp «Talk»= 12:08, 5 August 2008 (UTC)
Thanks for the article. Ann Arbor is a lovely city, based on my recollections of a visit there many years ago.
I'm curious about this sentence from the opening paragraph: "It is the state's seventh largest city with a population of 114,024 as of the 2000 census, of which 36,892 (32%) are college or graduate students".
As the University of Michigan is the largest educational institution, why are "university students" not mentioned? It seems to me that "university or college students" would better fit the situation. Graduate students are (almost always) "university students" I believe.
Thanks, Wanderer57 ( talk) 13:37, 5 August 2008 (UTC)
GO A2! __earth ( Talk) 13:50, 5 August 2008 (UTC)
If anyone cares, there is substantial evidence for the "tree town" nickname. First, if you want something official, the City government's internal events newsletter is the Tree Town Log. Second, try the Google test. There are more than twice as many hits for "town" as for "city." Finally, the Ann Arbor News is not searchable, but the Daily is, and there are plenty of hits that could be used as references:
+site:michigandaily.com "tree town" "tree+town"&btnG=Search
The confusion may stem from Ann Arbor's designation as a Tree City USA by the Arbor Day Foundation. Rees11 ( talk) 18:39, 2 September 2008 (UTC)
The weather statistics are currently drawn from stats for Ypsilanti. Stats for Ann Arbor should be drawn from a source about Ann Arbor, such as those provided by MSU's Ann Arbor weather station, no? Vassyana ( talk) 18:18, 21 September 2008 (UTC)
Generally, I am not a fan of photo galleries within articles. Hence, I have moved the gallery here. In any case, I believe that the images should be transferred to Wikimedia Commons (as the images are under GFDL). Pentawing Talk 04:55, 28 December 2008 (UTC)
The religion section of this article needs serious expansion, or deletion. Right now it's like some Every Three Weekly send-up of the arrogance of the large population of undergraduate Jews from the East Coast. 145.116.8.87 ( talk) 04:42, 25 March 2009 (UTC)
Agreed. In the meantime, I have moved the section here in hopes that someone will take the time to expand it further. If the section is to be included, I suggest that it be placed in the demographics section. Pentawing Talk 04:12, 24 August 2009 (UTC)
According to this WP article, Ann Arbor was founded in January 1824 by John Allen and Elisha Rumsey. I've done some research on the early history of Ann Arbor and I couldn't find any evidence that it was founded in January 1824. In fact, Allen and Rumsey chose the site now know as Ann Arbor in early February 1824. It is better to say that Ann Arbor was founded in 1824. I've erased January from the lead and history sections. AdjustShift ( talk) 18:03, 4 April 2009 (UTC)
These passages are relevant to the article, yet are in need of citation. I think I have found an article that can support these passages, but I cannot be able to access the full article (the article is entitled Soulless Cities: Ann Arbor, the Cutting Edge of Discipline: Postfordism, Postmodernism, and the New Bourgeoisie by Corey Dolgon). Pentawing Talk 01:36, 25 August 2009 (UTC)
I suspect tourism is the city's biggest industry now but I have been unable to find any good sources. Rees11 ( talk) 04:03, 25 August 2009 (UTC)
For anyone interested, I took a number of photos of historic properties in Ann Arbor. They're all on Commons at [2]. Andrew Jameson ( talk) 18:56, 19 June 2010 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: page moved per discussion below. The only opposition seems to be related to a guideline that is under discussion, and it is discussions such as this that ultimately inform the guideline, and not the other way around. - GTBacchus( talk) 23:22, 26 December 2010 (UTC)
Ann Arbor, Michigan →
Ann Arbor — "Ann Arbor" already redirects here. Why not just simply call the page "Ann Arbor" instead of "Ann Arbor, Michigan"? Just like
Detroit,
Minneapolis, and
Milwaukee don't include the name of the state because they're so well-known, so should Ann Arbor.
User:Krauseaj
15:06, 18 December 2010 (UTC)
Couldn't we find a more pleasant photo of Ann Arbor then the billboards/back of buildings pic that pops up on Facebook? Not really sure how this works, but I would prefer a scene of downtown, the river or maybe the Arb... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.93.1.248 ( talk) 21:28, 28 December 2010 (UTC)
So once this issue was opened up to a much larger participation than 4 editors during the holiday, it becomes very evident that there was really no WP:CONSENSUS to ever move from Ann Arbor, Michigan in the first place. The phantom "3 to 1" consensus that was used to justify the move has utterly vanished. In fact, looking at the discussion above far, far, FAR less than 75% of the editors who have voiced their thoughts above have opposed a revert. (Roughly estimating it looks more like more like only around 35% support keeping it at Ann Arbor). If anything this shows the foolishness of allowing a "3 person consensus" override a guideline. Since this discussion really seems to be dealing with a faulty close, is there another forum that this should be taken to? Agne Cheese/ Wine 06:42, 7 January 2011 (UTC)
And yes, the effects of the mandatory comma convention which once maybe had consensus support (that's arguable) are still with us, but consensus support for that convention does not now exist. An argument based on following a convention not supported by consensus is pretty weak, and a convention not supported by consensus is about all that supports the argument of those who opposed the initial move, and those who favor this revert move. Such weak arguments should be ignored because they don't reflect consensus.
In contrast, the arguments in favor of the original move and in opposition to this revert move are based on naming policy for which consensus support presumably does exist (there is no evidence of lack of consensus support for that policy, as there is for lack of consensus support for blind following of the comma convention). -- Born2cycle ( talk) 21:21, 11 January 2011 (UTC)
It is true that in AfD discussions "no consensus" means "no change" (don't delete), but that's not nearly as often true in RM discussions (some admins operate per AfD rules in the "no consensus" situation, but many do not). In any case, what's more important is how consensus is determined. When admins determine consensus by weighing the arguments being made based on how well they follow policy and guidelines, regardless of how much support there happens to be for each argument among the necessarily few who happen to be participating in any one discussion, then it is much less likely to find that there is "no consensus". For example, based on the dearth of argument based in policy and guidelines that favor this move, such an admin would find that consensus clearly opposes this move. -- Born2cycle ( talk) 21:57, 11 January 2011 (UTC)
And again, the point was that had this discussion taken place when the proposal was first made to move from "Ann Arbor, Michigan" to "Ann Arbor" (which it would've had if it been announced like this discussion was) that admin likely would've come up with the very conclusion you speak of, that being to oppose the move. Please don't pretend like your argument has this huge amount of support over the opposing view when it doesn't; both sides have presented policies, guidelines, precedent, and logic that legitimately support their viewpoint, hence the current stalemate here and at WP:CITIES. Regardless of my position on the naming issue, the initial move on this article was done without proper consensus, particularly in light of the standing convention (whether you agree it's foundation was legitimate or not, it was the common convention) which is mainly why I support reversion. -- JonRidinger ( talk) 22:17, 11 January 2011 (UTC)
The above #Revert move move proposal was improperly closed and I've requested that the decision be reviewed by an uninvolved admin.
-- Born2cycle ( talk) 20:14, 16 January 2011 (UTC)
I'm happy enough for my earlier closure to be reviewed, but it seems to me that the real decision to make is what the page should be called. If I was overly hasty in closing the December discussion - which it seems I may have been - then seeing this discussion result in a move back to Ann Arbor, Michigan will make that clear, and I will proceed having learned a little bit more about the community's stand on naming conventions.
Please remember that move discussions are different from AfDs, and a "no consensus" doesn't result in "no move" every time. We actually have to use one title or another one, and RM closers generally understand that they are to choose the best title, based on arguments presented in the discussion. - GTBacchus( talk) 01:55, 17 January 2011 (UTC)
Comment: In praise of GTBacchus contribution to this talk page. It's in the best spirit of Wikipedia. Alanscottwalker ( talk) 18:37, 17 January 2011 (UTC)
Please comment at Talk:Michigan_Wolverines#Solid_Maize_Block_M_vs._split_block_M.-- TonyTheTiger ( T/ C/ BIO/ WP:CHICAGO/ WP:FOUR) 15:20, 19 January 2011 (UTC)
The discussion at Wikipedia talk:Naming conventions (geographic names)/Archives/2011/January/Archives/2011/February#RFC: United States cities) has now been closed, with the conclusion that "consensus is in favour of maintaining the status quo" (that is, reaffirming the existing naming convention of "city, state"). Based on that, I request that this discussion also be closed and the cityname moved back to Ann Arbor, Michigan - as was done at Talk:Carmel-by-the-Sea, California. Thanks. -- MelanieN ( talk) 16:15, 21 January 2011 (UTC)
See WP:TITLE#Explict conventions. The policy defers to the guidelines. — Arthur Rubin (talk) 21:57, 22 January 2011 (UTC)
Anyway, I know WP:JDLI is just an essay, but do you not agree with it where it says, "Well-argued statements do beat personal, subjective tastes.", and "Consensus is determined not by the percentage of the participants in support or opposed to a given position, but by the quality of the arguments posted, evaluated in terms of how well they are based in policy, guidelines and conventions"?
Arthur, unless you're suggesting that "Ann Arbor, Michigan" is not a common name for that topic but a "specialized name", in the way that Sequoia sempervirens is a specialized name for the topic commonly known as Coast redwood, I don't see how WP:TITLE#Explicit conventions applies here since it's talking about "the use of titles that are not strictly the common name" which it refers to as "specialized names" as used in the conventions for articles about flora and medicine. I really don't see how it applies to any guideline at WP:PLACES (or WP:NCROY, for that matter).
Agne, many RM decisions are made with as small as, or even smaller, turnouts than participated in the earlier discussion about naming this article. This one was questioned, but what is abundantly clear is that with the article at the concise name, a consensus does not support moving it to the overprecise title. -- Born2cycle ( talk) 23:35, 22 January 2011 (UTC)