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The title of one of Modiglian's most well known paintings was removed by ZOE. I have reinstated this important factual information. Too, Modigliani's nationality was determined by ZOE alone to be Italian. This was done by her without facts, and obviously no knowledge of him, his life, or his works. I removed it, leaving FACTS which is what an enclclopedia is supposed to be. Too, she arbitrarily removed my reference to this important painting. Go figure, but then, ignorance is bliss...DW
My removal of the painting's name was unintentional. When I reverted the arbitrary changes you made, I left in the change that you made when you put the title back in. I don't even know why I'm responding to this, because I told you I wasn't going to be talking to you any more unless you learn how to be civil. So consider this my last message. -- Zoe
Not only are you destructive to this sight, you try to cover it up by lies. This is not an "isolated" accident. It is you playing God after I pointed out your ignorance and lack of knowledge YESTERDAY. PLEASE explain to everyone your reason for removing the title. I'm sure people would like to know before they expend energy doing hard work that you will "unintentionally" destroy....DW ESQ
A little more proof of your conduct: YOU SAID ABOVE:I left in the change that you made. Right, so what about the next change when I reinstated the reference to the portrait in the text, text that took me hours to prepare but seconds for you to wilfully destroy? Nice play on words to cover up your destruction. I don't object to any improvements and certainly recognize my dedicated work can always stand imporovement. But why do you choose to destroy important facts, then lie and manipulate your words to deceive readers? I'm sorry, I just don't understand this kind of thinking, nor do I understand why you would even touch a subject on WHICH YOU KNOW ABSOLUTELY NOTHING...DW
I reinstated the following important reference that was deleted by ZOE: --- including "Madame Pompadour" shown here,--- I would like her to explain how this is either Wikifying an article or adding to it, or improving it?
DW, if you explained why you don't think he should be described as Italian, others may very well agree with you. Is he known to have objected to being called Italian? Did he self-identify as something else? Is there a debate over his nationality? For example, my grandmother could be correctly called Italian because she moved to the US from Italy, and was born there. She would self-identify as Sicilian, though, and would not like to be called Italian as she considers the nationalities distinct, and actually doesn't like Italians too much. If, for some bizarre reason, she warranted a wikipedia article, she should be called Sicilian and not Italian. I, on the other hand, am nearly 100% Sicilian in ancestry, but self-identify as Italian (in the US; elsewhere, I would say American). I wouldn't object to my nationality being referred to as Sicilian, but, if asked, I say Italian (and would do so even if being Sicilian did not lead to Mafia-related questions most of the time). Hence, if I had a wikipedia article, I should be called Italian-American with maybe a mention that I'm descended from Sicilian immigrants. Tokerboy
You've called this an "arbitrary" distinction and the like. While all nationalities are arbitrary, they are also real things that deserve to be mentioned where appropriate. What makes you think that it is inappropriate in this case? (Or do you not think biography articles should never mention a person's nationality?) Tokerboy
DW, you have given no-one any reason why this page should not follow standard style. If there is a reason why Italian should not be used here, say it. If not, stop tampering with this page. And stop making childish threats to vandalise pages of people who touch 'your' pages. JTD 03:31 Jan 30, 2003 (UTC)
The content below was posted at Modigliani, now a redirect. Charles Matthews 11:25, 11 Dec 2004 (UTC)
Amadeo Modigliani (1884-1920) was an Italian painter and sculptor who was concerned with simplicity of line and form in the human figure. He is popularly known for his oval-faced portraits of friends and acquaintances.
Modigliani's style was unique among his contemporaries in Paris, surrounded as he was by artists experimenting with impressionism, surrealism, and cubism.
Ill health, in particular pneumonia and tuberculosis, affected him throughout his life. He died of tubercular meningitis at the age of 36. His fame rocketed after his death, and he is now considered the leading artist of the Paris School.
I added fact about the recent sale of a Modigliani painting of his then lover, Jeanne. I site the following link : http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/4118496.stm .
I am somewhat bothered by the statement "...and the few paintings that change hands can sell for more than $15.6 million." Exactly where does the figure $15.6 million come from ?
Thanks to everybody who has contributed to this article !
- KLestes
Maybe it was one of the multitude of fakes created by Elmyr de Hory? The Clifford Irving book, Fake!, of 1969 has 35 pages mentioning the times de Hory created Modigliani drawings (which he would knock out by the dozens) & paintings as well as the ease he had selling them to galleries and Algur Meadows (either personally or thru his "sales agent", Fernand Legros). Clifford Irving was de Hory's next door neighbor on the Spanish island of Ibiza. Irving of course is famous in his own right for the Howard Hughes diary hoax.
Fake! -- LoC #72-86087. A good read. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dbryant 94560 ( talk • contribs) 01:07, 5 April 2018 (UTC)
I was quite surprised to see what a small proportion of this page was devoted to Modigliani's art. No doubt his personal life is relevant, but at the moment the page reads like tabloid character assassination (e.g. philanderer in the first paragraph), virtually ignoring his significance as a portrait painter. Furthermore a lot of the details about his personal life, particularly his sexual exploits, are unsourced and fail to make the distinction between legend and events which are actually known to have happened. I don't have the knowledge to fix this myself, so am adding a standards tag. Zargulon 12:26, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
Agreed! I did some editing for coherence, but really the entire entry is devoted to his personal life.
JNW 23:59, 10 September 2006 (UTC)
It's hard to talk about Modigliani without getting caught up in his life, don't you think?
This is a good point, though, so I'm trying to trace his development as an artist; hopefully that strategy will address matters. It will still be necessary to talk about how his life influenced his development as an artist, though.
I'm working my way slowly through the tomes that my local libraries have on Modigliani, so hopefully the details that I am adding from these sources are 'facts', rather than conjecture, gossip, and rumour.
Oh, and I'll try to work the word 'hashish' in as often as possible, as it seems to be someone's mission in life to show the world that Modigliani smoked marijuana.
Personally, I think he preferred absinthe; if only the green fairy hadn't been made illegal...
Trenavin 04:50, 30 October 2006 (UTC)
Of course it's hard not to get drawn into his life story (so satisfyingly tawdry), and, as with any artist, not easy to separate it from his work. It's a matter of finding the right balance for an encyclopedic entry, which you, Trenavin, and previously Celithemis, are working to provide. JNW 02:01, 1 November 2006 (UTC)
I wish people would refrain from spouting the usual bohemian myths surrounding people like Modigliani. A common one with him is that he was some sort of extravagant hedonist, but the fact is he was just to destitute to afford to be drunk or high on narcotics all the time as he is all to oft portrayed.
One need look no further than his Tuberculosis and apalling poverty, and so poor living conditions, to explain his untimly death.
Amedeo Felix 14:49, 1 May 2007 (UTC)
In Modigliani's case, tis not a myth. The literature is pretty clear re: his abuse of substances. JNW 04:19, 2 May 2007 (UTC)
To quote directly from Encyclopaedia Britannica: "... (in 1914) his already delicate health was deteriorating because of his poverty, feverish work, and the abuse of alcohol and drugs". These are not romanticized fantasies, but the circumstances of his life. JNW 04:32, 2 May 2007 (UTC)
I disagree, but frankly could, until I find a solid reference which refutes the "indulgence" issue, be happy if the passage included his poverty and overworking as the Britannica entry you chose to quote does. So if you ammend that back again you really are being biased and unfair to him. Amedeo Felix 14:57, 2 May 2007 (UTC)
As I said I still refute the "indulgance" slant. My father has read up on Modi all his life, he went to the length of naming his only son (me) after the man, and taught me that it was his poverty above all things which was his undoing - that he could not afford to indulge as he is purported to have. I shall check with him on possible sources to back this up. Amedeo Felix 15:03, 2 May 2007 (UTC)
Oh, one more thing I thought may be useful to point out is the fact that "biographical" information is almost always based upon hearsay rather than any kind of seriously verifiable source. People telling their “stories” of another human being are by nature biased, which affects their recollections. So the image of Modi as a lush may well be one borne of prejudice in the eyes of people who knew him or worse based on what someone told someone who told someone etc. Amedeo Felix 13:45, 4 May 2007 (UTC)
What a snooty reply. How's about keeping your sarcasm to yourself, eh? Pathetic, especially given that in the example you chose of "evidence" to refute my claim of poverty being the factor in Modi's demise it says that very thing! It listed poverty FIRST. I maintain, right now without the ability to give a "big nose" pleasing reference, that his "abuses" were more myth than fact - I have heard, again no quoted or references are lodged in my brain but would take research, from more than one source that he gained a reputation for being an inebriate from his love of pretending to be high when he was not. Amedeo Felix 08:26, 6 May 2007 (UTC)
Oh, I also said "OK" let the drug bit stay until I can give a reference. This section is just talk however, and needs no references etc as far as I can see, so once again keep your this kind of thing to yourself: "Editors, writers, and contributors have a responsibility to do the best research they can, based upon the most reliable sources, not what they wish to believe. That is the essence of the principles referred to in wikiland as verifiability, no original research, and neutral point of view. If one is claiming that encyclopedic information is untrue, then the refuting evidence must be offered to substantiate the claim. All else is rationalization, and not suitable for contribution." Amedeo Felix 08:30, 6 May 2007 (UTC)
You do acknowledge though that the citation from Britannica makes poverty it's first item in contributory factors? Is that mere coincidence with my assertion that it is poverty which was the paramount factor. I took exception to the stereotypical reference to "abuse" as a cause of his death. What I have stated here is from personal knowledge gained from a lifetime of listening to my father talk of Modigliani, and from having researched the man myself for University. I can, and will, have a look at the paper I wrote and check the sources I used then (it may be found easily enough for any interested by using my name and the appropriate reference in a web search - I put all my Uni papers on-line for others to make use of)... Amedeo Felix 18:31, 7 May 2007 (UTC)
Oh, the "big nose" thing, well I guess you gotta be a fan of The Smiths to know that one, sorry... "there's always someone with a big nose who knows..." I was just being silly in an quotish sort of way. Amedeo Felix 18:34, 7 May 2007 (UTC)
OK. Most like we got off on the wrong foot so to speak. I thought the reference only to the drink & drugs misleading. Which is why I wanted the original passage deleted. That's all... Amedeo Felix 23:22, 7 May 2007 (UTC)
This is a question really to anyone who may be able to help in clearing this matter up. Something I have been told by my father as to why Modi gave up sculpting was his TB, combined with poverty - that is to say he could not continue due to his health, stone requires preparation (i.e. a great deal of carving before getting down to the precise work which produces the finished sculpture) and the dust produced by this simply played havoc with his condition, and of course, unlike a monetarily successful artist, he could not afford to hire an artist's assistant to do this work for him, and so he was forced to give it up. So of course what I am asking is has anyone else ever come across this explanation and still further what was the source? Amedeo Felix 09:47, 10 May 2007 (UTC)
i added micheli's first name, and added "Micheli's Art School" instead of "studied under micheli".
The purpose of a Wikipedia talk page is to provide space for editors to discuss changes to its associated article or project page. Article talk pages should not be used by editors as platforms for their personal views.
It amazes me that all of you are wasting time self engrandizing and attacking each other... rather than discussing the facts about Modigliani.. 71.172.192.57 03:05, 24 July 2007 (UTC)
What about the most important thing to begin with: the name of the man?!? I haven't seen any discussion or any proof anywhere that would lead to the idea that his name was Amedeo. He was italian, so his name must have been Amadeo. Are you all from the united states or what?? 88.157.68.219 ( talk) 16:09, 1 July 2008 (UTC)
I object to calling him Jewish. I think that ought only be applied to people who observe Judaism. Modi was NOT religious, he just happened to be born into a family that had a heritage of observing Judaism. Is someone a Catholic who does not believe? No.-- Amedeo Felix ( talk) 07:35, 24 July 2008 (UTC)
Second thoughts on this: I have just read WP:MOSBIO, which suggests that "Ethnicity should generally not be emphasized in the opening unless it is relevant to the subject's notability." So the issue is not so much whether he was practicing the religion, but rather, whether it was important to his notability. On that basis, I am more ambivalent about the mention in the lead paragraph. As to the mention of his friends: I don't know yet about Soutine, but the sources are pretty unanimous in referring to Utrillo as an alcoholic. JNW ( talk) 20:51, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
It seems too dismissive of Hebuterne to refer to her as "the current love of Modigliani's life." As biographers have pointed out, Modigliani's friends considered her the love of his life, period. Modigliani had many, many love affairs before he met Hebuterne, but few or none after her. Significantly, she was the only woman he ever referred to as "ma femme"--my wife. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Younggoldchip ( talk • contribs) 13:11, 24 May 2010 (UTC)
Is there any reason why Woman with a Necklace is not listed anywhere as a work of Modigliani?
http://www.artic.edu/aic/collections/artwork/59923
208.116.214.226 ( talk) 18:52, 20 August 2010 (UTC)
I trimmed this a bit, but it's growing again. Please see Wikipedia is not an image repository. The bulk of this gallery would make a good Commons gallery page, with just the "best of the best" here. -- Pete Tillman ( talk) 22:44, 7 March 2011 (UTC)
How can the lineage be traced to the 17th-century Dutch philosopher Baruch Spinoza when Spinoza is known never to have married nor to have fathered any children? At the most the lineage can be traced to his siblings but certainly not to himself. Marklinklaters ( talk) 11:16, 5 April 2013 (UTC)
I removed the sentence that said that Modigliani in the studio of Micheli was steeped in "19th century Italian art". Mainly, I do not think it is possible to characterize Italian 19th century painting as one style or even styles to "steep in". Nor do I think Micheli studio functioned in that manner, nor was Micheli a good representative of any one academic style. Clearly Micheli had a greater attachment to Realism, and the discombobulating experiments of Picasso and Cezanne came too late in his career to lead him to drift in the range of Modigliani. It was however revolutionary in the first decades of the 19th century to start to paint outdoors and the real landscape. It was revolutionary for Florentines to splash color. I do not think that the paragraph understands the nature of Machiaioli. I would not have make Morelli its precursor. Also while I can find his early work such as the Sicilian Vespers, melodramatic; I am not sure it was viewed in that light under the autocratic Bourbon monarchy. Nor do I find later Morelli to be melodramatic: dramatic? yes, but melodrama is pejorative.
Ultimately Modigliani's triumph is rooted in Italian love of art, but sparked by the Parisian revolutionary spirit. I am not aiming to rewrite the Modigliani entry. Only mild additions. Rococo1700 ( talk) 16:52, 2 January 2014 (UTC)
@ Warshy: You can check here (look for "Modigliani" – notice it gives phonemes, but Italian phonetic transciptions as per MoS require vowel lenght in stressed open syllables. Your * [modiˈʎaːni] is a nonstandard (rather Northern-like) pronunciation.-- Carnby ( talk) 19:14, 11 February 2015 (UTC)
I've redirected Reclining Nude with Blue Cushion to this article for now. Feel free to expand! --- Another Believer ( Talk) 01:10, 17 November 2017 (UTC)
Tried to add this, but it got blocked.
-- Look I Forget My youknowwhat ( talk) 12:31, 6 April 2020 (UTC)
I edited the opening which referred to Modigliani as "Italian Jewish". There is no reason why the ethnicity/religion of a historical figure/artist should be mentioned in the opening. As a matter of fact, it's usually avoided in Wikipedia articles, unless there are specific reasons which makes such an indication relevant to whatever the circumstances that made the figure historically renown. Anyone can easily verify that this is the case by having a look at the articles of other prominent Jewish figures in this enciclopedia: they are never defined as "Jewish" in the opening, their origins/family background/religion being discussed in the biographical section. The versions of this article in other languages (the French and German ones more specifically) also don't mention Modigliani being Jewish in the opening.
Another user ( User:Modernist) has engaged in an edit war to reinstate the "Italian Jewish" phrasing. They have never offered a reason for doing so except a extremely vague "it's better", "it's useful". I hope other users will discuss their reasons for reverting my edit in this talk page, or abstain from undoing the edit. -- Sansgloire ( talk) 21:38, 4 November 2021 (UTC)
Continued from above... And here: "Je vous emmerde. Je suis juif." (F--- off. I'm a Jew.). Coldcreation ( talk) 13:27, 5 November 2021 (UTC)
This is from Modigliani et son œuvre: Étude critique et catalogue raisonné, 1956, page 10. "Brusquement, Modigliani se leva, et, campé devant les deux antisémites, il leur jeta : Je suis Juif... et je vous emmerde. [I am Jewish... and F--- off.]. Coldcreation ( talk) 13:37, 5 November 2021 (UTC)
"Amedeo Clemente Modigliani ... was an Italian painter and sculptor who worked mainly in France and told people to fuck off"?Martinevans123 ( talk) 13:44, 5 November 2021 (UTC)
Being an old 'aficionado' of this page, as are both Coldcreation and Modernist, I went and found it. I was suprised to find how old (relatively) it is. It was introduced by an IP in 2016, in this diff. Again, it is much older that I'd have imagined, and it really has not bothered any of us up to this point... warshy (¥¥) 14:31, 5 November 2021 (UTC)
( edit conflict) Yes, but I also wrote that it does not "need" to be in the opening sentence. And apparently, according to WP guidelines and established traditions it shouldn't. It never bothered me there, but if it bothers someone else, it can definitely be removed from the opening sentence. Thank you, warshy (¥¥) 15:39, 5 November 2021 (UTC)
( edit conflict)Maybe we need an RfC? I don't see any compromise emerging or likely. Martinevans123 ( talk) 15:41, 5 November 2021 (UTC)
Should the lead section of the article states Modigliani ethnicity/religion, and thus introduce him as a "Italian Jewish painter and sculptor", or should that be discussed in the biographical section, and only his nationality mentioned in the opening ("Italian painter and sculptor")?
Sansgloire (
talk)
16:05, 5 November 2021 (UTC)
This is a Level 5 vital article, but vast amounts of it are completely uncited. I have therefore placed a template at the top of the article until such time as this is completely remedied. Thank you. Softlavender ( talk) 00:37, 27 November 2021 (UTC)
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The title of one of Modiglian's most well known paintings was removed by ZOE. I have reinstated this important factual information. Too, Modigliani's nationality was determined by ZOE alone to be Italian. This was done by her without facts, and obviously no knowledge of him, his life, or his works. I removed it, leaving FACTS which is what an enclclopedia is supposed to be. Too, she arbitrarily removed my reference to this important painting. Go figure, but then, ignorance is bliss...DW
My removal of the painting's name was unintentional. When I reverted the arbitrary changes you made, I left in the change that you made when you put the title back in. I don't even know why I'm responding to this, because I told you I wasn't going to be talking to you any more unless you learn how to be civil. So consider this my last message. -- Zoe
Not only are you destructive to this sight, you try to cover it up by lies. This is not an "isolated" accident. It is you playing God after I pointed out your ignorance and lack of knowledge YESTERDAY. PLEASE explain to everyone your reason for removing the title. I'm sure people would like to know before they expend energy doing hard work that you will "unintentionally" destroy....DW ESQ
A little more proof of your conduct: YOU SAID ABOVE:I left in the change that you made. Right, so what about the next change when I reinstated the reference to the portrait in the text, text that took me hours to prepare but seconds for you to wilfully destroy? Nice play on words to cover up your destruction. I don't object to any improvements and certainly recognize my dedicated work can always stand imporovement. But why do you choose to destroy important facts, then lie and manipulate your words to deceive readers? I'm sorry, I just don't understand this kind of thinking, nor do I understand why you would even touch a subject on WHICH YOU KNOW ABSOLUTELY NOTHING...DW
I reinstated the following important reference that was deleted by ZOE: --- including "Madame Pompadour" shown here,--- I would like her to explain how this is either Wikifying an article or adding to it, or improving it?
DW, if you explained why you don't think he should be described as Italian, others may very well agree with you. Is he known to have objected to being called Italian? Did he self-identify as something else? Is there a debate over his nationality? For example, my grandmother could be correctly called Italian because she moved to the US from Italy, and was born there. She would self-identify as Sicilian, though, and would not like to be called Italian as she considers the nationalities distinct, and actually doesn't like Italians too much. If, for some bizarre reason, she warranted a wikipedia article, she should be called Sicilian and not Italian. I, on the other hand, am nearly 100% Sicilian in ancestry, but self-identify as Italian (in the US; elsewhere, I would say American). I wouldn't object to my nationality being referred to as Sicilian, but, if asked, I say Italian (and would do so even if being Sicilian did not lead to Mafia-related questions most of the time). Hence, if I had a wikipedia article, I should be called Italian-American with maybe a mention that I'm descended from Sicilian immigrants. Tokerboy
You've called this an "arbitrary" distinction and the like. While all nationalities are arbitrary, they are also real things that deserve to be mentioned where appropriate. What makes you think that it is inappropriate in this case? (Or do you not think biography articles should never mention a person's nationality?) Tokerboy
DW, you have given no-one any reason why this page should not follow standard style. If there is a reason why Italian should not be used here, say it. If not, stop tampering with this page. And stop making childish threats to vandalise pages of people who touch 'your' pages. JTD 03:31 Jan 30, 2003 (UTC)
The content below was posted at Modigliani, now a redirect. Charles Matthews 11:25, 11 Dec 2004 (UTC)
Amadeo Modigliani (1884-1920) was an Italian painter and sculptor who was concerned with simplicity of line and form in the human figure. He is popularly known for his oval-faced portraits of friends and acquaintances.
Modigliani's style was unique among his contemporaries in Paris, surrounded as he was by artists experimenting with impressionism, surrealism, and cubism.
Ill health, in particular pneumonia and tuberculosis, affected him throughout his life. He died of tubercular meningitis at the age of 36. His fame rocketed after his death, and he is now considered the leading artist of the Paris School.
I added fact about the recent sale of a Modigliani painting of his then lover, Jeanne. I site the following link : http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/4118496.stm .
I am somewhat bothered by the statement "...and the few paintings that change hands can sell for more than $15.6 million." Exactly where does the figure $15.6 million come from ?
Thanks to everybody who has contributed to this article !
- KLestes
Maybe it was one of the multitude of fakes created by Elmyr de Hory? The Clifford Irving book, Fake!, of 1969 has 35 pages mentioning the times de Hory created Modigliani drawings (which he would knock out by the dozens) & paintings as well as the ease he had selling them to galleries and Algur Meadows (either personally or thru his "sales agent", Fernand Legros). Clifford Irving was de Hory's next door neighbor on the Spanish island of Ibiza. Irving of course is famous in his own right for the Howard Hughes diary hoax.
Fake! -- LoC #72-86087. A good read. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dbryant 94560 ( talk • contribs) 01:07, 5 April 2018 (UTC)
I was quite surprised to see what a small proportion of this page was devoted to Modigliani's art. No doubt his personal life is relevant, but at the moment the page reads like tabloid character assassination (e.g. philanderer in the first paragraph), virtually ignoring his significance as a portrait painter. Furthermore a lot of the details about his personal life, particularly his sexual exploits, are unsourced and fail to make the distinction between legend and events which are actually known to have happened. I don't have the knowledge to fix this myself, so am adding a standards tag. Zargulon 12:26, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
Agreed! I did some editing for coherence, but really the entire entry is devoted to his personal life.
JNW 23:59, 10 September 2006 (UTC)
It's hard to talk about Modigliani without getting caught up in his life, don't you think?
This is a good point, though, so I'm trying to trace his development as an artist; hopefully that strategy will address matters. It will still be necessary to talk about how his life influenced his development as an artist, though.
I'm working my way slowly through the tomes that my local libraries have on Modigliani, so hopefully the details that I am adding from these sources are 'facts', rather than conjecture, gossip, and rumour.
Oh, and I'll try to work the word 'hashish' in as often as possible, as it seems to be someone's mission in life to show the world that Modigliani smoked marijuana.
Personally, I think he preferred absinthe; if only the green fairy hadn't been made illegal...
Trenavin 04:50, 30 October 2006 (UTC)
Of course it's hard not to get drawn into his life story (so satisfyingly tawdry), and, as with any artist, not easy to separate it from his work. It's a matter of finding the right balance for an encyclopedic entry, which you, Trenavin, and previously Celithemis, are working to provide. JNW 02:01, 1 November 2006 (UTC)
I wish people would refrain from spouting the usual bohemian myths surrounding people like Modigliani. A common one with him is that he was some sort of extravagant hedonist, but the fact is he was just to destitute to afford to be drunk or high on narcotics all the time as he is all to oft portrayed.
One need look no further than his Tuberculosis and apalling poverty, and so poor living conditions, to explain his untimly death.
Amedeo Felix 14:49, 1 May 2007 (UTC)
In Modigliani's case, tis not a myth. The literature is pretty clear re: his abuse of substances. JNW 04:19, 2 May 2007 (UTC)
To quote directly from Encyclopaedia Britannica: "... (in 1914) his already delicate health was deteriorating because of his poverty, feverish work, and the abuse of alcohol and drugs". These are not romanticized fantasies, but the circumstances of his life. JNW 04:32, 2 May 2007 (UTC)
I disagree, but frankly could, until I find a solid reference which refutes the "indulgence" issue, be happy if the passage included his poverty and overworking as the Britannica entry you chose to quote does. So if you ammend that back again you really are being biased and unfair to him. Amedeo Felix 14:57, 2 May 2007 (UTC)
As I said I still refute the "indulgance" slant. My father has read up on Modi all his life, he went to the length of naming his only son (me) after the man, and taught me that it was his poverty above all things which was his undoing - that he could not afford to indulge as he is purported to have. I shall check with him on possible sources to back this up. Amedeo Felix 15:03, 2 May 2007 (UTC)
Oh, one more thing I thought may be useful to point out is the fact that "biographical" information is almost always based upon hearsay rather than any kind of seriously verifiable source. People telling their “stories” of another human being are by nature biased, which affects their recollections. So the image of Modi as a lush may well be one borne of prejudice in the eyes of people who knew him or worse based on what someone told someone who told someone etc. Amedeo Felix 13:45, 4 May 2007 (UTC)
What a snooty reply. How's about keeping your sarcasm to yourself, eh? Pathetic, especially given that in the example you chose of "evidence" to refute my claim of poverty being the factor in Modi's demise it says that very thing! It listed poverty FIRST. I maintain, right now without the ability to give a "big nose" pleasing reference, that his "abuses" were more myth than fact - I have heard, again no quoted or references are lodged in my brain but would take research, from more than one source that he gained a reputation for being an inebriate from his love of pretending to be high when he was not. Amedeo Felix 08:26, 6 May 2007 (UTC)
Oh, I also said "OK" let the drug bit stay until I can give a reference. This section is just talk however, and needs no references etc as far as I can see, so once again keep your this kind of thing to yourself: "Editors, writers, and contributors have a responsibility to do the best research they can, based upon the most reliable sources, not what they wish to believe. That is the essence of the principles referred to in wikiland as verifiability, no original research, and neutral point of view. If one is claiming that encyclopedic information is untrue, then the refuting evidence must be offered to substantiate the claim. All else is rationalization, and not suitable for contribution." Amedeo Felix 08:30, 6 May 2007 (UTC)
You do acknowledge though that the citation from Britannica makes poverty it's first item in contributory factors? Is that mere coincidence with my assertion that it is poverty which was the paramount factor. I took exception to the stereotypical reference to "abuse" as a cause of his death. What I have stated here is from personal knowledge gained from a lifetime of listening to my father talk of Modigliani, and from having researched the man myself for University. I can, and will, have a look at the paper I wrote and check the sources I used then (it may be found easily enough for any interested by using my name and the appropriate reference in a web search - I put all my Uni papers on-line for others to make use of)... Amedeo Felix 18:31, 7 May 2007 (UTC)
Oh, the "big nose" thing, well I guess you gotta be a fan of The Smiths to know that one, sorry... "there's always someone with a big nose who knows..." I was just being silly in an quotish sort of way. Amedeo Felix 18:34, 7 May 2007 (UTC)
OK. Most like we got off on the wrong foot so to speak. I thought the reference only to the drink & drugs misleading. Which is why I wanted the original passage deleted. That's all... Amedeo Felix 23:22, 7 May 2007 (UTC)
This is a question really to anyone who may be able to help in clearing this matter up. Something I have been told by my father as to why Modi gave up sculpting was his TB, combined with poverty - that is to say he could not continue due to his health, stone requires preparation (i.e. a great deal of carving before getting down to the precise work which produces the finished sculpture) and the dust produced by this simply played havoc with his condition, and of course, unlike a monetarily successful artist, he could not afford to hire an artist's assistant to do this work for him, and so he was forced to give it up. So of course what I am asking is has anyone else ever come across this explanation and still further what was the source? Amedeo Felix 09:47, 10 May 2007 (UTC)
i added micheli's first name, and added "Micheli's Art School" instead of "studied under micheli".
The purpose of a Wikipedia talk page is to provide space for editors to discuss changes to its associated article or project page. Article talk pages should not be used by editors as platforms for their personal views.
It amazes me that all of you are wasting time self engrandizing and attacking each other... rather than discussing the facts about Modigliani.. 71.172.192.57 03:05, 24 July 2007 (UTC)
What about the most important thing to begin with: the name of the man?!? I haven't seen any discussion or any proof anywhere that would lead to the idea that his name was Amedeo. He was italian, so his name must have been Amadeo. Are you all from the united states or what?? 88.157.68.219 ( talk) 16:09, 1 July 2008 (UTC)
I object to calling him Jewish. I think that ought only be applied to people who observe Judaism. Modi was NOT religious, he just happened to be born into a family that had a heritage of observing Judaism. Is someone a Catholic who does not believe? No.-- Amedeo Felix ( talk) 07:35, 24 July 2008 (UTC)
Second thoughts on this: I have just read WP:MOSBIO, which suggests that "Ethnicity should generally not be emphasized in the opening unless it is relevant to the subject's notability." So the issue is not so much whether he was practicing the religion, but rather, whether it was important to his notability. On that basis, I am more ambivalent about the mention in the lead paragraph. As to the mention of his friends: I don't know yet about Soutine, but the sources are pretty unanimous in referring to Utrillo as an alcoholic. JNW ( talk) 20:51, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
It seems too dismissive of Hebuterne to refer to her as "the current love of Modigliani's life." As biographers have pointed out, Modigliani's friends considered her the love of his life, period. Modigliani had many, many love affairs before he met Hebuterne, but few or none after her. Significantly, she was the only woman he ever referred to as "ma femme"--my wife. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Younggoldchip ( talk • contribs) 13:11, 24 May 2010 (UTC)
Is there any reason why Woman with a Necklace is not listed anywhere as a work of Modigliani?
http://www.artic.edu/aic/collections/artwork/59923
208.116.214.226 ( talk) 18:52, 20 August 2010 (UTC)
I trimmed this a bit, but it's growing again. Please see Wikipedia is not an image repository. The bulk of this gallery would make a good Commons gallery page, with just the "best of the best" here. -- Pete Tillman ( talk) 22:44, 7 March 2011 (UTC)
How can the lineage be traced to the 17th-century Dutch philosopher Baruch Spinoza when Spinoza is known never to have married nor to have fathered any children? At the most the lineage can be traced to his siblings but certainly not to himself. Marklinklaters ( talk) 11:16, 5 April 2013 (UTC)
I removed the sentence that said that Modigliani in the studio of Micheli was steeped in "19th century Italian art". Mainly, I do not think it is possible to characterize Italian 19th century painting as one style or even styles to "steep in". Nor do I think Micheli studio functioned in that manner, nor was Micheli a good representative of any one academic style. Clearly Micheli had a greater attachment to Realism, and the discombobulating experiments of Picasso and Cezanne came too late in his career to lead him to drift in the range of Modigliani. It was however revolutionary in the first decades of the 19th century to start to paint outdoors and the real landscape. It was revolutionary for Florentines to splash color. I do not think that the paragraph understands the nature of Machiaioli. I would not have make Morelli its precursor. Also while I can find his early work such as the Sicilian Vespers, melodramatic; I am not sure it was viewed in that light under the autocratic Bourbon monarchy. Nor do I find later Morelli to be melodramatic: dramatic? yes, but melodrama is pejorative.
Ultimately Modigliani's triumph is rooted in Italian love of art, but sparked by the Parisian revolutionary spirit. I am not aiming to rewrite the Modigliani entry. Only mild additions. Rococo1700 ( talk) 16:52, 2 January 2014 (UTC)
@ Warshy: You can check here (look for "Modigliani" – notice it gives phonemes, but Italian phonetic transciptions as per MoS require vowel lenght in stressed open syllables. Your * [modiˈʎaːni] is a nonstandard (rather Northern-like) pronunciation.-- Carnby ( talk) 19:14, 11 February 2015 (UTC)
I've redirected Reclining Nude with Blue Cushion to this article for now. Feel free to expand! --- Another Believer ( Talk) 01:10, 17 November 2017 (UTC)
Tried to add this, but it got blocked.
-- Look I Forget My youknowwhat ( talk) 12:31, 6 April 2020 (UTC)
I edited the opening which referred to Modigliani as "Italian Jewish". There is no reason why the ethnicity/religion of a historical figure/artist should be mentioned in the opening. As a matter of fact, it's usually avoided in Wikipedia articles, unless there are specific reasons which makes such an indication relevant to whatever the circumstances that made the figure historically renown. Anyone can easily verify that this is the case by having a look at the articles of other prominent Jewish figures in this enciclopedia: they are never defined as "Jewish" in the opening, their origins/family background/religion being discussed in the biographical section. The versions of this article in other languages (the French and German ones more specifically) also don't mention Modigliani being Jewish in the opening.
Another user ( User:Modernist) has engaged in an edit war to reinstate the "Italian Jewish" phrasing. They have never offered a reason for doing so except a extremely vague "it's better", "it's useful". I hope other users will discuss their reasons for reverting my edit in this talk page, or abstain from undoing the edit. -- Sansgloire ( talk) 21:38, 4 November 2021 (UTC)
Continued from above... And here: "Je vous emmerde. Je suis juif." (F--- off. I'm a Jew.). Coldcreation ( talk) 13:27, 5 November 2021 (UTC)
This is from Modigliani et son œuvre: Étude critique et catalogue raisonné, 1956, page 10. "Brusquement, Modigliani se leva, et, campé devant les deux antisémites, il leur jeta : Je suis Juif... et je vous emmerde. [I am Jewish... and F--- off.]. Coldcreation ( talk) 13:37, 5 November 2021 (UTC)
"Amedeo Clemente Modigliani ... was an Italian painter and sculptor who worked mainly in France and told people to fuck off"?Martinevans123 ( talk) 13:44, 5 November 2021 (UTC)
Being an old 'aficionado' of this page, as are both Coldcreation and Modernist, I went and found it. I was suprised to find how old (relatively) it is. It was introduced by an IP in 2016, in this diff. Again, it is much older that I'd have imagined, and it really has not bothered any of us up to this point... warshy (¥¥) 14:31, 5 November 2021 (UTC)
( edit conflict) Yes, but I also wrote that it does not "need" to be in the opening sentence. And apparently, according to WP guidelines and established traditions it shouldn't. It never bothered me there, but if it bothers someone else, it can definitely be removed from the opening sentence. Thank you, warshy (¥¥) 15:39, 5 November 2021 (UTC)
( edit conflict)Maybe we need an RfC? I don't see any compromise emerging or likely. Martinevans123 ( talk) 15:41, 5 November 2021 (UTC)
Should the lead section of the article states Modigliani ethnicity/religion, and thus introduce him as a "Italian Jewish painter and sculptor", or should that be discussed in the biographical section, and only his nationality mentioned in the opening ("Italian painter and sculptor")?
Sansgloire (
talk)
16:05, 5 November 2021 (UTC)
This is a Level 5 vital article, but vast amounts of it are completely uncited. I have therefore placed a template at the top of the article until such time as this is completely remedied. Thank you. Softlavender ( talk) 00:37, 27 November 2021 (UTC)