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I've moved the page for the following reasons: [1], [2]. Reichenbach 10:49, 5 October 2006 (UTC)
Guys, how about using a Ruthenian name Olshanski? After all, this was a Ruthenian family of GDL, which itself was greatly Ruthenized? These noblemen are called as such in literature as well, see eg. [5], [6]. -- Irpen 22:54, 5 October 2006 (UTC)
So called ruthenisation ? Iulius, please check the sources. Start from, eg. as much respected one as Britannica:
Anyway, that's a side issue. -- Irpen 08:21, 6 October 2006 (UTC)
Besides, neither Ivan, Semen or Paweł (the three best known members of that family) were peasants, so this argument is hardly relevant here. // Halibu tt 22:31, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
During the 14th, 15th and 16th centuries the family was Orthodox by faith and Ruthenian by language, although Pavel Olshanski was a Catholic Church official.
One of the brothers of Pavel was named Janusz, his sister's name was Jadwiga. This strongly implies that Pavel was not the only Catholic in the family. 136.206.1.20 ( talk) 10:01, 18 June 2009 (UTC)
BTW, calling "Holszanski" a Polish form of the name as opposed to Ruthenian is somewhat strange. Their name was spelled Holszanski, Гол(ь)шанский, in lots of Ruthenian-language sources (see the 35th volume of the Complete Collection of Russian Chronicles). Though the form Olszanski was surely used as well. 136.206.1.20 ( talk) 10:07, 18 June 2009 (UTC)
In academic sources, Alšėniškiai is more frequently used than Olshanski. Google Scholar has:
It has come to my attention that Google Books as a measure is not useful, because it throws up books like Cecil Rhodes: Man and Empire-Maker, The Baltic States After Independence or The history of Protestantism - Volume 3 - James Aitken Wylie - 1889 after searching for "Olshanski" "Grand Duchy of Lithuania" (pages 9 and 10 of the search results) [11].-- Cukrakalnis ( talk) 22:49, 9 March 2022 (UTC)
@ Cukrakalnis: You forget to limit your search to English results only. Real results:
It's rather clear that the Slavic form is more popular, which cannot be surprising because the family was Ruthenised early on. I prefer "Holshansky" because it's used by Robert I. Frost and Zenonas Norkus. Lithuanian authors of Lithuanian Millenium. History, art and culture, seems to prefer "Holszański" version of the name Marcelus ( talk) 23:10, 9 March 2022 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: Not moved.( non-admin closure) Turnagra ( talk) 19:26, 2 April 2022 (UTC)
Alšėniškiai → Holszański – It's rather clear that the Slavic form is more popular, which cannot be surprising because the family was Ruthenised early on. I would prefer "Holshansky" because it's used by Robert I. Frost and Zenonas Norkus. But "Holszański" seems to be the most popular version in Google Scholar and Lithuanian authors of Lithuanian Millenium. History, art and culture, seems to prefer "Holszański" version of the name Marcelus ( talk) 23:26, 9 March 2022 (UTC) — Relisting. Extraordinary Writ ( talk) 03:23, 26 March 2022 (UTC) Scholar:
Marcelus ( talk) 23:27, 9 March 2022 (UTC)
25 results for "Holszański" search. Following WP:COMMONNAME, it should be (as it currently is) Alšėniškiai instead of any others. Cukrakalnis ( talk) 16:35, 14 March 2022 (UTC)
Regading the above move. This was stable under Olshanski for almost a decade. Where is the RM to move it from Olshanski to Alšėniškiai? -- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 18:20, 15 March 2023 (UTC)
This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
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I've moved the page for the following reasons: [1], [2]. Reichenbach 10:49, 5 October 2006 (UTC)
Guys, how about using a Ruthenian name Olshanski? After all, this was a Ruthenian family of GDL, which itself was greatly Ruthenized? These noblemen are called as such in literature as well, see eg. [5], [6]. -- Irpen 22:54, 5 October 2006 (UTC)
So called ruthenisation ? Iulius, please check the sources. Start from, eg. as much respected one as Britannica:
Anyway, that's a side issue. -- Irpen 08:21, 6 October 2006 (UTC)
Besides, neither Ivan, Semen or Paweł (the three best known members of that family) were peasants, so this argument is hardly relevant here. // Halibu tt 22:31, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
During the 14th, 15th and 16th centuries the family was Orthodox by faith and Ruthenian by language, although Pavel Olshanski was a Catholic Church official.
One of the brothers of Pavel was named Janusz, his sister's name was Jadwiga. This strongly implies that Pavel was not the only Catholic in the family. 136.206.1.20 ( talk) 10:01, 18 June 2009 (UTC)
BTW, calling "Holszanski" a Polish form of the name as opposed to Ruthenian is somewhat strange. Their name was spelled Holszanski, Гол(ь)шанский, in lots of Ruthenian-language sources (see the 35th volume of the Complete Collection of Russian Chronicles). Though the form Olszanski was surely used as well. 136.206.1.20 ( talk) 10:07, 18 June 2009 (UTC)
In academic sources, Alšėniškiai is more frequently used than Olshanski. Google Scholar has:
It has come to my attention that Google Books as a measure is not useful, because it throws up books like Cecil Rhodes: Man and Empire-Maker, The Baltic States After Independence or The history of Protestantism - Volume 3 - James Aitken Wylie - 1889 after searching for "Olshanski" "Grand Duchy of Lithuania" (pages 9 and 10 of the search results) [11].-- Cukrakalnis ( talk) 22:49, 9 March 2022 (UTC)
@ Cukrakalnis: You forget to limit your search to English results only. Real results:
It's rather clear that the Slavic form is more popular, which cannot be surprising because the family was Ruthenised early on. I prefer "Holshansky" because it's used by Robert I. Frost and Zenonas Norkus. Lithuanian authors of Lithuanian Millenium. History, art and culture, seems to prefer "Holszański" version of the name Marcelus ( talk) 23:10, 9 March 2022 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: Not moved.( non-admin closure) Turnagra ( talk) 19:26, 2 April 2022 (UTC)
Alšėniškiai → Holszański – It's rather clear that the Slavic form is more popular, which cannot be surprising because the family was Ruthenised early on. I would prefer "Holshansky" because it's used by Robert I. Frost and Zenonas Norkus. But "Holszański" seems to be the most popular version in Google Scholar and Lithuanian authors of Lithuanian Millenium. History, art and culture, seems to prefer "Holszański" version of the name Marcelus ( talk) 23:26, 9 March 2022 (UTC) — Relisting. Extraordinary Writ ( talk) 03:23, 26 March 2022 (UTC) Scholar:
Marcelus ( talk) 23:27, 9 March 2022 (UTC)
25 results for "Holszański" search. Following WP:COMMONNAME, it should be (as it currently is) Alšėniškiai instead of any others. Cukrakalnis ( talk) 16:35, 14 March 2022 (UTC)
Regading the above move. This was stable under Olshanski for almost a decade. Where is the RM to move it from Olshanski to Alšėniškiai? -- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 18:20, 15 March 2023 (UTC)