This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Afghan civil war redirect. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
This redirect does not require a rating on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
I'm commenting out the infobox since this should be about the greater war, not about the individual Battle of Kabul (which should have its own article). Don't want to mislead readers. Elle vécut heureuse à jamais ( Be eudaimonic!) 07:01, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
There is a confusion over what exactly this civil war is. The Soviets pulled out in 1989, and it is at this point we can consider it to be a civil war between their puppet government and other afghans. This war effectively ended in 1992 with the collapse of the puppet government. It wasnt until 1994 that the Taliban formed, and they made war with the Rabbani government. I would consider this to be a seperate civil war than the one I previously mentioned, as it is not against the soviet puppet government. As time passes the Taliban makes gains, the civil war doesnt end in 1996 with the fall of Kabul to the Taliban, but continues on as the Rabbani government, now working with other militias as the Northern Alliance, continued to fight. I think, using the precedent set by seperating the soviet war from the civil war that followed, that this civil war between the northern alliance and the Taliban would be considered ended when the United States involvement began. What do people think of this rather peculiar situation? ~ Rangeley ( talk) 04:02, 20 August 2006 (UTC)
hmm the situation is similar like in Somalia. I think the war lasts from 1989-2006 and its ongoing ( Taliban insurgency), but with different phases-- TheFEARgod 10:55, 20 August 2006 (UTC)
ok. I suggest Afghan Civil War 1989-1992 and so on. If you have needed material for doing so it would be appreciated. But, Afghan Civil War should be a disambig as the period is already covered in History of Afghanistan 1992- -- TheFEARgod 15:31, 20 August 2006 (UTC)
Good. Check my changes in the 1996-2001 article. -- TheFEARgod 16:27, 20 August 2006 (UTC)
Your map should have been in .png format - now it's a bit blurred -- TheFEARgod 16:55, 20 August 2006 (UTC)
I did a lot of research using news articles from the time for the 96-01 phase, which was surprisingly tiring (yet interesting.) I havent found any sources from before 1996 though. So we still need the 89-92 and 92-96 to be fleshed out. I can do quick summarys on this article. ~ Rangeley ( talk) 20:40, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
Image:10AFGHANWARNationalGeographic.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.
If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.
BetacommandBot 04:18, 27 October 2007 (UTC)
This article has been quiet for a while. Here are some thoughts of mine:
Comments:
I did a Google search for both terms and Google came up with roughly the same number of hits. (see here and here). But which one is a better term? I think "Civil war in Afghanistan" is a more accurate term. Anyone disagree? -- Behnam ( talk) 11:10, 23 November 2007 (UTC)
Civil war in Afghanistan and its confused state is causing difficulties for the article List of ongoing conflicts. There have been a series of edits where people (including myself) have changed the listing of Afghanistan on List of ongoing conflicts to War in Afghanistan (2001–present) on the basis that the current (and ongoing phase of conflict in Afghanistan is not a civil war and is unrelated to the preceding conflicts in Afghanistan. A particular user User:Kermanshahi keeps changing the reference back again. Does anyone here have any views about how this should be handled ? Marlarkey ( talk) 23:18, 8 January 2010 (UTC)
If you saw the Soviet TV reports from Afghanistan, they also said they conduct reconstruction. So why this article says reconstruction only began when Americans came?-- MathFacts ( talk) 08:06, 27 July 2010 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: Moved to Afghan civil war (once redirect with history at destination is speedy-deleted). Per Septentrionalis, article should be recast. Per Kotniski, this rename is reasonable as interim measure. Born2cycle ( talk) 05:36, 14 September 2010 (UTC)
Civil war in Afghanistan → Afghan Civil War — "Afghan Civil War" would appear to be the most common terminlogy for the ongoing conflict, which encompasses Soviet and NATO interventions, in addition to the civil war between the various political factions in Afghanistan. This terminology is used by various reliable sources including the Guardian, Telegraph, Washington Post, New York Times, Los Angeles Times, BBC, France 24 and Al Jazeera. City of Destruction 20:39, 26 August 2010 (UTC)
This needs to happen as a follow-up to the move (see above). In particular, please note comment from Septentrionalis PMAnderson "Actually most of those speak of the Afghan civil war as ending in 2001 ... This article should be split and recast." -- Born2cycle ( talk) 05:36, 14 September 2010 (UTC)
Wikipedia has way too many articles on the 1978-present war in Afghanistan and this causes confusion, this one should briefly explain the civil war which began in 1978 and each section could explain the different eras. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Me chase girl she chase me ( talk • contribs) 14:39, 29 January 2011 (UTC)
I don't see any consensus for this no-summary edit (by Trust Is All You Need) changing all instances of "invaded" to "intervened" (not always grammatically). Thus, I've reverted it. It has been described as invasion by multiple reliable sources (e.g. Ghost Wars: The Secret History of the CIA, Afghanistan, and Bin Laden, from the Soviet Invasion to September 10, 2001, Russia marks Afghanistan retreat by Al Jazeera, etc.). Superm401 - Talk 22:42, 12 March 2012 (UTC)
This by Trevor Goodchild also had no summary and presents a few NPOV issues. It changes "Military coup" to "Communist revolution" (consensus appears to be that it was a coup, though it obviously had Communist involvement), "popular" to "religious" (some were religious, some were simply anti-communist) "resistance" to "rebellion" (both are probably accurate, but the rebellion may have a slightly more negative connotation), removes "unpopular" (appropriate, though a source for the popularity could be added). I've reverted all but the "unpopular" removal. Superm401 - Talk 23:14, 12 March 2012 (UTC)
Why was such a huge move down unilaterally without any discussion? Parsi101 ( talk) 09:32, 16 April 2012 (UTC)
The result of the proposal was no consensus. -- BDD ( talk) 17:25, 1 June 2015 (UTC)
– This would be more in line with other pages ( Algerian Civil War, American Civil War, Angolan Civil War, Cambodian Civil War, Chinese Civil War, Chadian Civil War, Chadian Civil War (1965–79), Chadian Civil War (2005–10), Costa Rican Civil War, English Civil War, Eritrean Civil Wars, Ethiopian Civil War, Finnish Civil War, First Ivorian Civil War, First Liberian Civil War, First Sudanese Civil War, Georgian Civil War, Greek Civil War, Guatemalan Civil War, Guinea-Bissau Civil War, Iraqi Civil War, Irish Civil War, Italian Civil War, Ivorian Civil War, Laotian Civil War, Lebanese Civil War, Liberian Civil War, Libyan Civil War, Libyan Civil War (2011), Libyan Civil War (2014–present), Mozambican Civil War, Nepalese Civil War, Nigerian Civil War, North Yemen Civil War, Paraguayan Civil War, Russian Civil War, Rwandan Civil War, Salvadoran Civil War, Second Ivorian Civil War, Second Liberian Civil War, Second Sudanese Civil War, Sierra Leone Civil War, Somali Civil War, South Sudanese Civil War, South Yemen Civil War, Spanish Civil War, Sri Lankan Civil War, Sudanese Civil War, Syrian Civil War, Ugandan Civil War, Uruguayan Civil War, Yemeni Civil War, Yemeni Civil War (1994), Yemeni Civil War (2015), ect.). --Relisted. George Ho ( talk) 03:25, 16 May 2015 (UTC) Charles Essie ( talk) 21:42, 8 May 2015 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Afghan civil war redirect. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
This redirect does not require a rating on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
I'm commenting out the infobox since this should be about the greater war, not about the individual Battle of Kabul (which should have its own article). Don't want to mislead readers. Elle vécut heureuse à jamais ( Be eudaimonic!) 07:01, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
There is a confusion over what exactly this civil war is. The Soviets pulled out in 1989, and it is at this point we can consider it to be a civil war between their puppet government and other afghans. This war effectively ended in 1992 with the collapse of the puppet government. It wasnt until 1994 that the Taliban formed, and they made war with the Rabbani government. I would consider this to be a seperate civil war than the one I previously mentioned, as it is not against the soviet puppet government. As time passes the Taliban makes gains, the civil war doesnt end in 1996 with the fall of Kabul to the Taliban, but continues on as the Rabbani government, now working with other militias as the Northern Alliance, continued to fight. I think, using the precedent set by seperating the soviet war from the civil war that followed, that this civil war between the northern alliance and the Taliban would be considered ended when the United States involvement began. What do people think of this rather peculiar situation? ~ Rangeley ( talk) 04:02, 20 August 2006 (UTC)
hmm the situation is similar like in Somalia. I think the war lasts from 1989-2006 and its ongoing ( Taliban insurgency), but with different phases-- TheFEARgod 10:55, 20 August 2006 (UTC)
ok. I suggest Afghan Civil War 1989-1992 and so on. If you have needed material for doing so it would be appreciated. But, Afghan Civil War should be a disambig as the period is already covered in History of Afghanistan 1992- -- TheFEARgod 15:31, 20 August 2006 (UTC)
Good. Check my changes in the 1996-2001 article. -- TheFEARgod 16:27, 20 August 2006 (UTC)
Your map should have been in .png format - now it's a bit blurred -- TheFEARgod 16:55, 20 August 2006 (UTC)
I did a lot of research using news articles from the time for the 96-01 phase, which was surprisingly tiring (yet interesting.) I havent found any sources from before 1996 though. So we still need the 89-92 and 92-96 to be fleshed out. I can do quick summarys on this article. ~ Rangeley ( talk) 20:40, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
Image:10AFGHANWARNationalGeographic.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.
If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.
BetacommandBot 04:18, 27 October 2007 (UTC)
This article has been quiet for a while. Here are some thoughts of mine:
Comments:
I did a Google search for both terms and Google came up with roughly the same number of hits. (see here and here). But which one is a better term? I think "Civil war in Afghanistan" is a more accurate term. Anyone disagree? -- Behnam ( talk) 11:10, 23 November 2007 (UTC)
Civil war in Afghanistan and its confused state is causing difficulties for the article List of ongoing conflicts. There have been a series of edits where people (including myself) have changed the listing of Afghanistan on List of ongoing conflicts to War in Afghanistan (2001–present) on the basis that the current (and ongoing phase of conflict in Afghanistan is not a civil war and is unrelated to the preceding conflicts in Afghanistan. A particular user User:Kermanshahi keeps changing the reference back again. Does anyone here have any views about how this should be handled ? Marlarkey ( talk) 23:18, 8 January 2010 (UTC)
If you saw the Soviet TV reports from Afghanistan, they also said they conduct reconstruction. So why this article says reconstruction only began when Americans came?-- MathFacts ( talk) 08:06, 27 July 2010 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: Moved to Afghan civil war (once redirect with history at destination is speedy-deleted). Per Septentrionalis, article should be recast. Per Kotniski, this rename is reasonable as interim measure. Born2cycle ( talk) 05:36, 14 September 2010 (UTC)
Civil war in Afghanistan → Afghan Civil War — "Afghan Civil War" would appear to be the most common terminlogy for the ongoing conflict, which encompasses Soviet and NATO interventions, in addition to the civil war between the various political factions in Afghanistan. This terminology is used by various reliable sources including the Guardian, Telegraph, Washington Post, New York Times, Los Angeles Times, BBC, France 24 and Al Jazeera. City of Destruction 20:39, 26 August 2010 (UTC)
This needs to happen as a follow-up to the move (see above). In particular, please note comment from Septentrionalis PMAnderson "Actually most of those speak of the Afghan civil war as ending in 2001 ... This article should be split and recast." -- Born2cycle ( talk) 05:36, 14 September 2010 (UTC)
Wikipedia has way too many articles on the 1978-present war in Afghanistan and this causes confusion, this one should briefly explain the civil war which began in 1978 and each section could explain the different eras. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Me chase girl she chase me ( talk • contribs) 14:39, 29 January 2011 (UTC)
I don't see any consensus for this no-summary edit (by Trust Is All You Need) changing all instances of "invaded" to "intervened" (not always grammatically). Thus, I've reverted it. It has been described as invasion by multiple reliable sources (e.g. Ghost Wars: The Secret History of the CIA, Afghanistan, and Bin Laden, from the Soviet Invasion to September 10, 2001, Russia marks Afghanistan retreat by Al Jazeera, etc.). Superm401 - Talk 22:42, 12 March 2012 (UTC)
This by Trevor Goodchild also had no summary and presents a few NPOV issues. It changes "Military coup" to "Communist revolution" (consensus appears to be that it was a coup, though it obviously had Communist involvement), "popular" to "religious" (some were religious, some were simply anti-communist) "resistance" to "rebellion" (both are probably accurate, but the rebellion may have a slightly more negative connotation), removes "unpopular" (appropriate, though a source for the popularity could be added). I've reverted all but the "unpopular" removal. Superm401 - Talk 23:14, 12 March 2012 (UTC)
Why was such a huge move down unilaterally without any discussion? Parsi101 ( talk) 09:32, 16 April 2012 (UTC)
The result of the proposal was no consensus. -- BDD ( talk) 17:25, 1 June 2015 (UTC)
– This would be more in line with other pages ( Algerian Civil War, American Civil War, Angolan Civil War, Cambodian Civil War, Chinese Civil War, Chadian Civil War, Chadian Civil War (1965–79), Chadian Civil War (2005–10), Costa Rican Civil War, English Civil War, Eritrean Civil Wars, Ethiopian Civil War, Finnish Civil War, First Ivorian Civil War, First Liberian Civil War, First Sudanese Civil War, Georgian Civil War, Greek Civil War, Guatemalan Civil War, Guinea-Bissau Civil War, Iraqi Civil War, Irish Civil War, Italian Civil War, Ivorian Civil War, Laotian Civil War, Lebanese Civil War, Liberian Civil War, Libyan Civil War, Libyan Civil War (2011), Libyan Civil War (2014–present), Mozambican Civil War, Nepalese Civil War, Nigerian Civil War, North Yemen Civil War, Paraguayan Civil War, Russian Civil War, Rwandan Civil War, Salvadoran Civil War, Second Ivorian Civil War, Second Liberian Civil War, Second Sudanese Civil War, Sierra Leone Civil War, Somali Civil War, South Sudanese Civil War, South Yemen Civil War, Spanish Civil War, Sri Lankan Civil War, Sudanese Civil War, Syrian Civil War, Ugandan Civil War, Uruguayan Civil War, Yemeni Civil War, Yemeni Civil War (1994), Yemeni Civil War (2015), ect.). --Relisted. George Ho ( talk) 03:25, 16 May 2015 (UTC) Charles Essie ( talk) 21:42, 8 May 2015 (UTC)