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A fact from Adam Lazarowicz appeared on Wikipedia's
Main Page in the
Did you know column on 30 September 2007. The text of the entry was as follows:
|
Article lists 5 sources in the end. All are just some web-sites in non-English language. Nonenglishness certainly does not disqualify the source per se but it would be helpful to have at least one English source if possible. However, most importantly, it is necessary to determine the credentials of the web pages. Who wrote the material there, who hosts this material. What are the credential of authors (if not anonymous) or web-sites, if known. -- Irpen 22:15, 26 September 2007 (UTC)
My dear Soviet friend, there you go.
Hope you are happy now, dear Irpen, it is a pleasure to talk to such a gentleman. Greetings Tymek 02:31, 27 September 2007 (UTC)
Dear Irpen, I am very glad that you are so interested in this topic, it makes me glad that such an expert on Polish matters takes his time. What I mean by a webpage on Warsaw Uprising is the fact that this webpage is about Warsaw Uprising. Simple as that. World War Two took place a while ago, yet there are books on it, I had just taken for granted that I do not have to explain it to such a scholar, I was wrong, my fault. If an article written by the son of the murdered man does not satisfy you, well, I am very sad, but this is your problem, not mine. In this sense it does not matter if he is a historian or not. He saw a lot with his own eyes. With utmost respect, thank you. Tymek 16:25, 28 September 2007 (UTC)
I moved the source three to external links, since it is a website about WiN - not the subject of this article (it mentions Lazarowicz in passing only). As for the source four, it is used as a ref by an academician, Marek Jan Chodakiewicz - this is a good argument for its reliability. He is also an author of other historial pieces, several of them published in "Zeszyty historyczne WiNu". As such, I believe the article is well referenced (sure, it could use inline citations, but for a new article it's pretty good).-- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk 17:26, 29 September 2007 (UTC)
I don't care about your offenses and wild accusations. Your tone is clearly unacceptable and I will not dignify this bullshit with a response. As for the page on Warsaw Uprising, if you are using it as a source, it is your duty to show that it is a reliable source. Who set it up? Who is the author of the particular text? What are the credentials of the writer and the hosting organization?
I have no doubt about the subject's notability, decency and valor. Whoever risked his life in fighting the Nazis gets my bows no matter under which banner and ideology, the Soviet one, the Polish nationalist one, the Ukrainian or Russian nationalist one, opposition to Genocide, desire to liberate his homeland or just being ordered to against one's will. However, you have to learn to address the civil and legitimate questions about your articles properly and respectfully without attempting to offend and deride other contributors. -- Irpen 02:26, 29 September 2007 (UTC)
So, no response to the refences question so far. We've got anothe problem on top of that. The aftermath section is getting trolled, I see. "Soviet installed" belongs to articles about the Polish state. But you just don't add your favorite grievances randomly to any articles you can find. When Special:Contributions/4_bity_muzyki was adding the perfectly references "Homophobia in Poland" section to the Poland article it was rightfully reverted as too loosely related by Piotrus. But not here when the installer is Molobo. And Soviet historiography is being piped to Polish books? Nice. Perhaps some regret Poland's not being part of the Soviet Union. Strange twist. -- Irpen 04:51, 29 September 2007 (UTC)
-- Molobo 08:57, 29 September 2007 (UTC)
The Gov of Poland was Communist, Soviet installed and lots of other things. How about "Government of Poland that conducted the [[Wisla Action|forced resettlement of the non-Polish minorities]]"? You don't flood your grievances in all articles left and right. No Russian Enlightenment or "4_bity_muzyki" syndrome please. And what was "common practice in Eastern Block historiographies" belongs to the historiography articles. If this saturation of content with unrelated grievances continues the section will be tagged. -- Irpen 16:25, 29 September 2007 (UTC)
Check WP:COAT. The article was doing well without this nonsense pipe until the intrusion of your protege Molobo. -- Irpen 17:55, 29 September 2007 (UTC)
I did not offend Molobo by calling him your protege. Checking his (un)block log says it all. People's Repoublic of Poland was not a Soviet republic. I can't believe you regret it. -- Irpen 18:17, 29 September 2007 (UTC)
Piotrus, please stop invoking AGF. When users have a long history of disruption, the AGF does not apply. It has a specific clause about the "evidence to the contrary". Until the Aftermath section is cleaned up from WP:COAT issues, the article is unsuitable for the front page.
For a short time, I assumed that this is going to be a shoe-in for DYK. An article about honorable person who suffered from two oppressive regimes. I helped developing it, streamlined the lead, asked reasonable questions to establish the sources' reliability. What have I got in response? Tymek's offensive responses to the source's questions and coatracking intrusion by Molobo in previously mutually acceptable section.
No surprise you supported both. For Tymek issue you dared to say that we both were insulting each other. For Molobo's issue, you chose to join the revert war. I am truly sorry (no sarcasm) that the article about such a noncontroversial figure, a true hero, still gets disrupted by blatant POV-pushing with your tacit support. -- Irpen 18:29, 29 September 2007 (UTC)
I think you should not deal with objections by edit warring (yourself), encouraging users with a long disruptive history to do the same and smearing my name at the talk pages of DYK admins by assigning some evil motives to me, justifying Tymek's rudeness and even comparing myself to him. I think the contentious issue should be removed before the article can be featured on the main page. Main page is a big deal. If my removal of Molobo's inappropriate edit was reverted by a uninvolved user I would have accepted it. But instead it was removed first by you, the tacit supported of Molobo's activity, and then by Digwuren a user who does not really need to be characterized on yet another page. -- Irpen 03:05, 30 September 2007 (UTC)
Piotrus, absence of the off-topic article is not an excuse to insert the off-topic material to an existing article. The article on Ransacking of the Peremyshl Cathedral by Poles during the times of Polish Renaissance is not written as well. Still, I am not inserting this into the latter article, History of Poland and Poland article using the absence of a separate article as an excuse. -- Irpen 03:27, 30 September 2007 (UTC)
I've just checked the article over regarding its suitability for DYK and, on a very quick read, the Soviet historiography link did perhaps feel a little unnecessary. Is there any way that a stub on the subject specifically relating to Poland (and perhaps other former Eastern bloc states) could be started, which could then legitimately be cross-referenced to similarities with Soviet historiography? I'm unfamiliar with the subject area, unfortunately, so this might not be a useful suggestion. Espresso Addict 03:46, 30 September 2007 (UTC)
Why can't we remove the irrelevancy? Why can't we just remove the (parenthesisized) irrelevancy and have the article features for god's sake? I think AL deserves a mainpage entry! Why do we need to flood the article about the hero with irrelevancies and compromise it? How would giving justice to him suffer from removing the irrelevant intrusion? -- Irpen 03:48, 30 September 2007 (UTC)
Piotrus, did you read the Espresso Addict's entry above? Molobo, it was not "Soviet" by "Polish Communist propaganda". Soviet was a little to the east. Or if you really need a pipe, pipe it to a redlink [[Historiography of Communist Poland|Polish books]] and have it done with. DYK articles permit redlinks. It is not an FA yet. -- Irpen 03:56, 30 September 2007 (UTC)
I came to read the article from DYK. A nice article. It was nice to know in the "Aftermath" that Lazarowicz was resurrected, after all. Regards.-- Dwaipayan ( talk) 13:43, 30 September 2007 (UTC)
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This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Adam Lazarowicz article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
A fact from Adam Lazarowicz appeared on Wikipedia's
Main Page in the
Did you know column on 30 September 2007. The text of the entry was as follows:
|
Article lists 5 sources in the end. All are just some web-sites in non-English language. Nonenglishness certainly does not disqualify the source per se but it would be helpful to have at least one English source if possible. However, most importantly, it is necessary to determine the credentials of the web pages. Who wrote the material there, who hosts this material. What are the credential of authors (if not anonymous) or web-sites, if known. -- Irpen 22:15, 26 September 2007 (UTC)
My dear Soviet friend, there you go.
Hope you are happy now, dear Irpen, it is a pleasure to talk to such a gentleman. Greetings Tymek 02:31, 27 September 2007 (UTC)
Dear Irpen, I am very glad that you are so interested in this topic, it makes me glad that such an expert on Polish matters takes his time. What I mean by a webpage on Warsaw Uprising is the fact that this webpage is about Warsaw Uprising. Simple as that. World War Two took place a while ago, yet there are books on it, I had just taken for granted that I do not have to explain it to such a scholar, I was wrong, my fault. If an article written by the son of the murdered man does not satisfy you, well, I am very sad, but this is your problem, not mine. In this sense it does not matter if he is a historian or not. He saw a lot with his own eyes. With utmost respect, thank you. Tymek 16:25, 28 September 2007 (UTC)
I moved the source three to external links, since it is a website about WiN - not the subject of this article (it mentions Lazarowicz in passing only). As for the source four, it is used as a ref by an academician, Marek Jan Chodakiewicz - this is a good argument for its reliability. He is also an author of other historial pieces, several of them published in "Zeszyty historyczne WiNu". As such, I believe the article is well referenced (sure, it could use inline citations, but for a new article it's pretty good).-- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk 17:26, 29 September 2007 (UTC)
I don't care about your offenses and wild accusations. Your tone is clearly unacceptable and I will not dignify this bullshit with a response. As for the page on Warsaw Uprising, if you are using it as a source, it is your duty to show that it is a reliable source. Who set it up? Who is the author of the particular text? What are the credentials of the writer and the hosting organization?
I have no doubt about the subject's notability, decency and valor. Whoever risked his life in fighting the Nazis gets my bows no matter under which banner and ideology, the Soviet one, the Polish nationalist one, the Ukrainian or Russian nationalist one, opposition to Genocide, desire to liberate his homeland or just being ordered to against one's will. However, you have to learn to address the civil and legitimate questions about your articles properly and respectfully without attempting to offend and deride other contributors. -- Irpen 02:26, 29 September 2007 (UTC)
So, no response to the refences question so far. We've got anothe problem on top of that. The aftermath section is getting trolled, I see. "Soviet installed" belongs to articles about the Polish state. But you just don't add your favorite grievances randomly to any articles you can find. When Special:Contributions/4_bity_muzyki was adding the perfectly references "Homophobia in Poland" section to the Poland article it was rightfully reverted as too loosely related by Piotrus. But not here when the installer is Molobo. And Soviet historiography is being piped to Polish books? Nice. Perhaps some regret Poland's not being part of the Soviet Union. Strange twist. -- Irpen 04:51, 29 September 2007 (UTC)
-- Molobo 08:57, 29 September 2007 (UTC)
The Gov of Poland was Communist, Soviet installed and lots of other things. How about "Government of Poland that conducted the [[Wisla Action|forced resettlement of the non-Polish minorities]]"? You don't flood your grievances in all articles left and right. No Russian Enlightenment or "4_bity_muzyki" syndrome please. And what was "common practice in Eastern Block historiographies" belongs to the historiography articles. If this saturation of content with unrelated grievances continues the section will be tagged. -- Irpen 16:25, 29 September 2007 (UTC)
Check WP:COAT. The article was doing well without this nonsense pipe until the intrusion of your protege Molobo. -- Irpen 17:55, 29 September 2007 (UTC)
I did not offend Molobo by calling him your protege. Checking his (un)block log says it all. People's Repoublic of Poland was not a Soviet republic. I can't believe you regret it. -- Irpen 18:17, 29 September 2007 (UTC)
Piotrus, please stop invoking AGF. When users have a long history of disruption, the AGF does not apply. It has a specific clause about the "evidence to the contrary". Until the Aftermath section is cleaned up from WP:COAT issues, the article is unsuitable for the front page.
For a short time, I assumed that this is going to be a shoe-in for DYK. An article about honorable person who suffered from two oppressive regimes. I helped developing it, streamlined the lead, asked reasonable questions to establish the sources' reliability. What have I got in response? Tymek's offensive responses to the source's questions and coatracking intrusion by Molobo in previously mutually acceptable section.
No surprise you supported both. For Tymek issue you dared to say that we both were insulting each other. For Molobo's issue, you chose to join the revert war. I am truly sorry (no sarcasm) that the article about such a noncontroversial figure, a true hero, still gets disrupted by blatant POV-pushing with your tacit support. -- Irpen 18:29, 29 September 2007 (UTC)
I think you should not deal with objections by edit warring (yourself), encouraging users with a long disruptive history to do the same and smearing my name at the talk pages of DYK admins by assigning some evil motives to me, justifying Tymek's rudeness and even comparing myself to him. I think the contentious issue should be removed before the article can be featured on the main page. Main page is a big deal. If my removal of Molobo's inappropriate edit was reverted by a uninvolved user I would have accepted it. But instead it was removed first by you, the tacit supported of Molobo's activity, and then by Digwuren a user who does not really need to be characterized on yet another page. -- Irpen 03:05, 30 September 2007 (UTC)
Piotrus, absence of the off-topic article is not an excuse to insert the off-topic material to an existing article. The article on Ransacking of the Peremyshl Cathedral by Poles during the times of Polish Renaissance is not written as well. Still, I am not inserting this into the latter article, History of Poland and Poland article using the absence of a separate article as an excuse. -- Irpen 03:27, 30 September 2007 (UTC)
I've just checked the article over regarding its suitability for DYK and, on a very quick read, the Soviet historiography link did perhaps feel a little unnecessary. Is there any way that a stub on the subject specifically relating to Poland (and perhaps other former Eastern bloc states) could be started, which could then legitimately be cross-referenced to similarities with Soviet historiography? I'm unfamiliar with the subject area, unfortunately, so this might not be a useful suggestion. Espresso Addict 03:46, 30 September 2007 (UTC)
Why can't we remove the irrelevancy? Why can't we just remove the (parenthesisized) irrelevancy and have the article features for god's sake? I think AL deserves a mainpage entry! Why do we need to flood the article about the hero with irrelevancies and compromise it? How would giving justice to him suffer from removing the irrelevant intrusion? -- Irpen 03:48, 30 September 2007 (UTC)
Piotrus, did you read the Espresso Addict's entry above? Molobo, it was not "Soviet" by "Polish Communist propaganda". Soviet was a little to the east. Or if you really need a pipe, pipe it to a redlink [[Historiography of Communist Poland|Polish books]] and have it done with. DYK articles permit redlinks. It is not an FA yet. -- Irpen 03:56, 30 September 2007 (UTC)
I came to read the article from DYK. A nice article. It was nice to know in the "Aftermath" that Lazarowicz was resurrected, after all. Regards.-- Dwaipayan ( talk) 13:43, 30 September 2007 (UTC)
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