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So Trump had just claimed that he's won the election and states that he would be going to Supreme Court to stop the count. Where does this get included? Juxlos ( talk) 07:33, 4 November 2020 (UTC)
For some sources: CNBC, Forbes, Fox News, BBC. Juxlos ( talk) 08:34, 4 November 2020 (UTC)
We might want to take a look at 2016 United States presidential election for a model. Under "Results" there are a number of prose sections, including "Election night" and "The next day". They include a brief summary of comments made by the two candidates. Currently our "Results" section includes no text, just tables to be filled in, but I think some textual information would be appropriate. -- MelanieN ( talk) 19:25, 4 November 2020 (UTC)
Re:
Special:Diff/987078667: It should specify the time zone (2:30am EST, I think?). Also, I think some care should be taken with regards to the wording here with regards to the vote counting. Trump specifically says we want all voting to stop
. As
the BBC article linked above interprets, most likely his meaning is he wants to block the counting of postal ballots, which can be legally accepted by some state election boards after Tuesday's election
. The wording "all vote counting to stop" conveys a slightly different nuance (something along the lines of "oh since we're ahead in the vote count in these states, we can declare victory here and not count the remaining precincts"). The argument (at face value; no comments on whether Trump intentionally phrased it in a misleading way or not) concerns the validity of ballots received after election day, not counted after election day. --
Ununseti (
talk) 20:27, 4 November 2020 (UTC)
“We’ll be going to the U.S. Supreme Court, we want all voting to stop,” Trump continued more than an hour after the final U.S. polls closed in Alaska. “We don’t want them to find any ballots at 4 o’clock in the morning and add them to the list.” It was unclear what Trump meant by “going to the Supreme Court,” given that the nation’s highest court is rarely the first judicial venue for a case, but rather, it reviews lower court rulings..
He promised to go to the Supreme Court to stop late vote-counting, though. The Fox News source interprets it as
Trump hinted the White House would push the Supreme Court to rule over disputed ballots, warning that a “very sad group of people” was trying to “disenfranchise” voters. This CTV source interprets it as
Earlier Wednesday, Trump attacked media organizations for not declaring him the winner, saying in an early-morning appearance that it was "a major fraud on our nation." "As far as I'm concerned, we already have won this," he said, calling for outstanding ballots not to be counted.Meanwhile this AP News source just kinda snarks a bit on Trump's word choice:
Trump says: “We’ll be going to the U.S. Supreme Court — we want all voting to stop.” In fact, there is no more voting — just counting.-- Ununseti ( talk) 22:34, 4 November 2020 (UTC)
Hi,
Can someone set up archiving for this talk page? It's getting pretty lengthy. Thanks, David O. Johnson ( talk) 04:57, 4 November 2020 (UTC)
can someone start colouring in the official colours of the winners in each state which are officially announced now?, this is how we followed the elections in 2016... its impossible to follow it here this time around cause everyone is lazy and refusing to do it, just add those stated confirmed and its that easy..-- 27.123.139.73 ( talk) 02:06, 4 November 2020 (UTC)
It just seems so historical. America, the country that was once known for its democratic freedom around the globe, may be throwing it all away. If Trump loses to Joe, he may take it to the state OR supreme court. If they agree with him and his reason, he may actually be awarded the presidency by the court despite Joe winning. Don't you understand? This has never happened in America before! I would really like to recommend that you include his statements on calling the election a "fraud" and "rigged." He may refuse to concede if he suffers defeat. Maybe include voter suppression as well. Let's not forget he wanted to stop the counting of ballots. SweetMilkTea13 ( talk) 01:43, 5 November 2020 (UTC)
@ SweetMilkTea13:, if the counting is stopped across the United States, Biden will win the presidency, as he has a lead in Nevada and Arizona. CNN has called 253 electoral college votes for him. Now,With AZ (11) and NV(6), He will have 17 electoral votes, thus winning the race. However, Trump still has a chance in Nevada, AZ, PA, GA, NC. And Biden will not a landslide victory, because Trump won in Florida, Iowa, Ohio. So all the votes need to be counted. I still think Trump has a pathway to victory. Biden needs to win more than 300 electoral college votes to avoid "Bush vs. Gore" scenario! Ppt2003 ( talk) 02:44, 5 November 2020 (UTC)
In the lead-up to the election, as well as on election night, Trump made frequent false claims intended to cast doubt on the legitimacy of the election, as well as refusing to commit to a peaceful transfer of power.That's sufficient in my view. {{u| Sdkb}} talk 07:00, 5 November 2020 (UTC)
@ Juxlos:, I would say -"The morning after election day/The following day. Ppt2003 ( talk) 11:25, 5 November 2020 (UTC)
News just came in a few minutes ago, but there were intense clashes between the police and protesters as they demanded to 'count every vote." [1] Although no one was killed, several people were injured. It would be more informative if someone created an article revolving around this terrible situation. SweetMilkTea13 ( talk) 05:57, 5 November 2020 (UTC)
@ Albertaont: Well written article! I'm going to leave it at "protests" for now. Yes many have been arrested and there has been some critical injuries as a result of clashes between police, Trump supporters and Biden supporters, but so far no one has died. I really hope we can keep it this way, but if we do see some deaths after the results are finalized then we definitely have to switch the title to "riots." SweetMilkTea13 ( talk) 05:58, 6 November 2020 (UTC)
References
Mention that Joe Biden got more votes than any other presidential candidate in history (you could also mention he was first to 70 million votes but that may be too trivial) Nojus R ( talk) 18:35, 5 November 2020 (UTC)
It's currently in the lead.— Bagumba ( talk) 02:45, 13 November 2020 (UTC)
In the second sentence, perhaps it should be changed to Voters selected
presidential electors who in turn will vote on December 14, 2020...
, as voting is done. We could also de-bold the popular vote results. I know that Biden is, in all likelihood, going to win the popular vote, but it's still a possibility for Trump (though low) to win the popular vote, with ~10% of ballots outstanding. Thoughts? Thanks,
Thanoscar21
talk,
contribs 20:22, 5 November 2020 (UTC)
Hello. I have looked through this page and tried to find all the relevant discussions. What I've done is posted the least speculative information about the electoral vote total (Decision Desk HQ, which powers many news organizations, and the NYT). Some sources (AP, Fox) project AZ to Biden. Other's don't. When in doubt, leave it out.
This should be good overnight. Tomorrow morning the total and map may need to be updated. The remaining number of updates will be few and easily accomplished. Jehochman Talk 04:30, 6 November 2020 (UTC)
Underneath the map, add "Red denotes states won by Trump/Pence and blue denotes those won by Biden/Harris [and grey denotes too close or early to call]. Numbers indicate electoral votes cast by each state and the District of Columbia." as per tradition. Nojus R ( talk) 04:52, 6 November 2020 (UTC)
The edits needed are these, for the avoidance of doubt:
Thank you. Jehochman Talk 13:09, 6 November 2020 (UTC)
"Megachurch pastor and televangelist Paula White-Cain, who is spiritual adviser to President Donald Trump, delivered a prayer service Wednesday night in an effort to secure Trump's reelection."
Video fragment of prayer service
Count Iblis ( talk) 18:20, 6 November 2020 (UTC)
The only states that weren't definitively called last time I checked were PA, AZ, NV, GA, NC, and AK, where Biden had 253 electoral votes and Trump had 214, therefore making PA have more than the 17 Biden needs to win. 270ToWin says PA is called for Biden, but IDK if it officially, definitively is called for Biden. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 135.180.2.61 ( talk) at 18:26, 7 November 2020 (UTC)
Greetings! I was just curious; how come on this the pictures were swapped from left to right? Thanks kindly! (Keep up the good work) 1holeinmysock ( talk) 19:53, 6 November 2020 (UTC)
Why is it considered so? Especially given its large amounts of bias and other issues with the site? Aardwolf68 ( talk) 22:59, 6 November 2020 (UTC)
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Florida also voted for the losing candidate for the first time since 1992. Can you please add that? Please. 2601:40A:8480:1750:6D0B:C890:CA84:68AA ( talk) 01:20, 10 November 2020 (UTC)
It does not even state that the supposed loser is contesting the results. [3]. wp:npov is not the rule of the land anymore? 205.175.106.156 ( talk) 02:49, 10 November 2020 (UTC)
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The Prime minister of Nepal has Congratulated Joe Biden via Twitter say "Heartiest congratulations to President-elect @JoeBiden
and Vice-President-elect
@KamalaHarris
on your impressive and historic election victory. I look forward to working closely with the new US leadership in further strengthening friendly ties between our two countries."
[1] 174.21.108.255 ( talk) 00:59, 8 November 2020 (UTC)
The front page states:
"Joe Biden wins the United States presidential election."
While the article avoids claiming that: "All major news outlets projecting the race have projected that Biden has won the election, including ABC News, the Associated Press, Business Insider, CNN, Decision Desk HQ, Fox News, MSNBC, NBC News, The New York Times, Reuters, and Vox.[5] Counting continues to determine the final results. "
and
" Joe Biden, the presumptive winner of the 2020 presidential election, pending the formal voting by the Electoral College in mid-December, is scheduled to be inaugurated on January 20, 2021"
Please fix this by either stating that Biden has won the election, or explain why the claim is avoided. Thank you.-- TZubiri ( talk) 00:02, 8 November 2020 (UTC)
Note: The page Joe Biden claims the win, while Donald Trump avoids it. Whatever decision you take is ok, I just want to see where this article stands, and take that up to the front page if necessary.-- TZubiri ( talk) 00:06, 8 November 2020 (UTC)
AP has called Nevada for Biden. [4] 331dot ( talk) 19:14, 7 November 2020 (UTC)
I removed the sentence This is the first presidential election in which both the major candidates are over 70.
from the last paragraph in the lead, since it's only
WP:DUE to spend so much time on the ages of the candidates, and the paragraph already mentions that If elected, Biden would become the oldest person to serve as president at 78 years old on the day of his inauguration
and If reelected, Trump would be the oldest president to be inaugurated in U.S. history, as he would be 74 at the time of the 2021 inauguration.
. I noticed that it was back today, and after some digging (a ping rather than a stealth revert would've been appreciated), I found that
Paintspot
re-added it with summary Undid removal. It's not redundant – it's an additional fact
. I'm not persuaded by that. What do others think? {{u|
Sdkb}}
talk 06:51, 5 November 2020 (UTC)
Never before in our history has the nation been confronted with a choice of leaders all of whom were 70 or more. I would suppose this fact is far from trivial. -- Dps04 ( talk) 17:43, 5 November 2020 (UTC)
I understand the countroversy around the EC and the states yet to be called, etc. But why shouldn't we post the Popular Vote total as it's being updated? Said number isn't going to change the state of the race and I see no reason why we shouldn't put it in the Infobox. Apologies if a consensus was reached about it, I didn't find it before posting this. -- yeah_93 ( talk) 17:30, 5 November 2020 (UTC)
Now that the election (the voting, but not the counting) is over, what should we do about the Demographic trends section? Some of it is speculation on the impact of demographic changes on the result. Should the actual results be included in this section, or not? If we do include information about results, do we wait until the media starts publishing stories like "suburban women cost Trump the election", etc.? — Naddruf ( talk ~ contribs) 22:46, 5 November 2020 (UTC)
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Article states that Biden, if inaugurated, would be the 2nd former vice-president to be elected president & first since Richard Nixon. This is false, George H. W. Bush won the 1988 presidential election and served as Ronald Reagan’s Vice President from 1981-1989. 147.226.73.199 ( talk) 19:04, 5 November 2020 (UTC)
{{
edit extended-protected}}
template. I have changed "former" to "non-incumbent", however, after re-reading the sentence and seeing the potential for confusion. –
Jonesey95 (
talk) 19:35, 5 November 2020 (UTC)
Only former vice president to become president in a non-immediate fashionwhile under Bush is says he was the
Fourth sitting vice president elected president. I would say it might be fair to include as long as the wording is clear. -- Super Goku V ( talk) 02:31, 6 November 2020 (UTC)
What about an own section listing all the historical firsts or records this election comes with by now already? Record participation, Biden receiving more votes than any other candidate in US history, historical record of number or percentage of mail-in voting, and if I understand CNN right, Biden may be the first Democrat presidential candidate winning Arizona and Trump may be the first Republican candidate winning Ohio but losing the election. Of course, it's too early to call the latter two, but once they're called, I think they should be mentioned in such a section. -- 2003:EF:1703:A528:D960:9B1:48A9:97E5 ( talk) 03:02, 6 November 2020 (UTC)
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Change:
The 2020 United States presidential election was the 59th quadrennial presidential election. It was held on Tuesday, November 3, 2020, and won by Joe Biden.
To:
The 2020 United States presidential election was the 59th quadrennial presidential election, held on Tuesday, November 3, 2020. Former vice-president Joe Biden and US Senator from California Kamala Harris defeated incumbents President Donald Trump and Vice President Mike Pence. Miss Show Business ( talk) 05:30, 8 November 2020 (UTC)
It's currently resolved.— Bagumba ( talk) 09:27, 13 November 2020 (UTC)
Something is messed up with the Don Blankenship row in this table. I am not confident in my ability to edit this, so I am leaving this note here in case someone with more skill comes along. -- Khajidha ( talk) 00:27, 7 November 2020 (UTC)
I think the edit made at 20:40, 6 November 2020 should be reverted. While Joe Biden and Donald Trump would both be the oldest candidates to have been inaugurated, at 78 and 74, respectively, this shouldn't be merged into the same sentence, as the previous versions of the article made a clear distinction between them: If Joe Biden is elected president, he would be the oldest person not just to be inaugurated as president, but to also serve as president in general, as no other president has reached the age of 78 while in office (Ronald Reagan left office at 77 years of age). 2600:8802:800:E4:49A8:CE00:8D10:7369 ( talk) 00:20, 7 November 2020 (UTC)
According to Washington Post - "For the first time in history, most Americans are expected to cast their ballots before Election Day.". This is an interesting info. Source - [5]. M.Karelin ( talk) 08:30, 7 November 2020 (UTC)
North Carolina is........BLUE ???? Really ?? Just look at the map. And look at the results - Trump is leading there !!!! 76.21.97.234 ( talk) 08:18, 7 November 2020 (UTC)
Maybe it's early yet, but I think the article should mention something about general turnout, I have the impression it was historically high. Compare 2016_United_States_presidential_election#Statistical_analysis. Gråbergs Gråa Sång ( talk) 12:11, 7 November 2020 (UTC)
Per [8]. P,TO 19104 ( talk) ( contribs) 16:31, 7 November 2020 (UTC)
This should not be updated until more news sources agree on the final results. As of now, most sources are still not saying there is a clear winner. Nightenbelle ( talk) 14:26, 6 November 2020 (UTC)
Decision Desk HQ and Business Insider have called it for Biden.
The New York Times has noted this. -- Valjean ( talk) 16:58, 6 November 2020 (UTC)
I think we should wait until the results are certified per WP:NPOV. I have never seen a case where the vote has been overturned, but we also don't have the state results up for the same reason (I assume). - Knowledgekid87 ( talk) 18:26, 6 November 2020 (UTC)
Should the line “ Some outlets, such as Fox News, and Reuters, have yet to call the election.” be changed due to the fact both of these outlets have put Biden over 270? Jcoolbro ( talk) (c) 16:52, 7 November 2020 (UTC)
AP calls presidential race for Joe Biden
It looks like Fox News may follow suit any moment. -- Valjean ( talk) 16:41, 7 November 2020 (UTC)
Fox has called the election. As has ABC. Jcoolbro ( talk) (c) 16:47, 7 November 2020 (UTC)
So it would be okay to update the article then and declare Biden winner? IllQuill ( talk) 16:47, 7 November 2020 (UTC)
Fox News has called for Biden per YouTube and their website Sau226 ( talk) 16:48, 7 November 2020 (UTC)
EVERYONE does it now. -- Valjean ( talk) 16:49, 7 November 2020 (UTC)
If our past consensus was to reflect this consensus, it seems like it might be time? Chris vLS ( talk) 16:58, 7 November 2020 (UTC)
Fox News is now the first one to give Nevada to Biden (290). -- Valjean ( talk) 17:02, 7 November 2020 (UTC)
AP gives Nevada to Biden (290). -- Valjean ( talk) 17:27, 7 November 2020 (UTC)
I suggest the creation of a new section of reactions to Biden victory; here the first 5 international reactions (in chronological order)
-- KajenCAT ( talk) 17:46, 7 November 2020 (UTC)
Could someone update the electoral college map to add ME-2 for republican?
- 2605:8D80:602:3C82:E4A5:B21E:D812:88B6 ( talk) 17:50, 7 November 2020 (UTC)
This edit request by an editor with a conflict of interest was declined. |
Iranian apt targeted US voter registration data https://us-cert.cisa.gov/ncas/alerts/aa20-304a Baratiiman ( talk) 14:48, 7 November 2020 (UTC)
I just uploaded the following press conference from November 5:
This press conference is notable because almost every sentence that the president says is demonstrably false, and there are many sources that have noted this particular conference for that fact. I also suggest that the disinformation coming from the White House [1], Rudy Giuliani [2], Alex Jones [3], etc. regarding the election be noted in the article.
Victor Grigas ( talk) 13:50, 7 November 2020 (UTC)
Howdy. Didn't we hold off from using Elected President in the infobox until the Electoral College voted, in the 2016 United States presidential election article, four years ago? Are we going to do the same, here? GoodDay ( talk) 17:01, 7 November 2020 (UTC)
I take it once this is all over, we can add a bit saying, Trump is the most successful president* ( * in the respect of his lost... compared to bush snr, carter etc etc) who failed reelection, as he managed to increase his share of the vote while picking up 8 million more voters overall from his 1st election, and only lost the states he required by 61'000 vote.
Remember this is in the current context, of his lose, IE he must be the only person seeking re-election to increase vote and still lose. -- Crazyseiko ( talk) 14:12, 7 November 2020 (UTC)
As he has now lost, does anyone with a neutral point have a input? no other one term president who losted has never managed to keep or go above there original share of the route. Thats is the point. how else do you skirt around the main points, he was successful in that point, he still lost. -- Crazyseiko ( talk) 17:19, 7 November 2020 (UTC)
It's not accurate, though, since John Quincy Adams in 1828 increased both his vote count and percentage share compared to 1824 despite losing reelection. 170.55.23.174 ( talk) 22:13, 7 November 2020 (UTC)
I am saddened to see a flag salad international reactions section cluttering up this already overlong article. It has no encyclopedic value, and it is a quotefarm. Should it be deleted? Or be spun off? Abductive ( reasoning) 01:01, 8 November 2020 (UTC)
The 2016 presidential election page has its second line as "The Republican ticket of businessman Donald Trump and Indiana governor Mike Pence defeated the Democratic ticket of former secretary of state Hillary Clinton and U.S. senator from Virginia Tim Kaine." Since we're already treating Biden as the president-elect on his page, would it not be consistent to use the same formatting here now, obviously replacing names and such? Stavd3 ( talk) 01:08, 8 November 2020 (UTC)
I noticed that on the infobox under "states carried" we have Biden carrying Nebraska's 2nd and Trump caring Maine 2nd, but don't have Trump carrying Nebraska's 1st and 3rd or Biden carrying Maine 1st. Should we add Nebraska 1 and 3 and Maine 1 to "states carried" in infobox? Iamreallygoodatcheckers ( talk) 02:28, 8 November 2020 (UTC)
Please add a section on LGBT rights. -- 2601:C4:C300:1BD0:B12E:7FE8:276:C4A ( talk) 23:23, 5 November 2020 (UTC)
I noticed that the article's infobox refers to Biden as the President-elect. The article for President-elect of the United States itself says (in opening paragraph) "If the result of an election is unclear or disputed, no person is normally referred to as president-elect until the dispute is resolved." As the Trump campaign continues to dispute the election result, is it correct to continue to refer to Biden conclusively as the President-elect? Or at least should there be a tag that this is currently in dispute? Kidburla ( talk) 23:45, 7 November 2020 (UTC)
Voter Turnout deserves a sub heading in results, can someone please add? Tx Billyshiverstick ( talk) 03:49, 8 November 2020 (UTC)
Perhaps it would be worth the research to find the proportion of votes cast per the population of the US. According to National Archives the electoral college in this election is based on the 2010 census. Seems it would be more accurate to use population figures for 2020, which can be found at the Population Clock. Would need to find out how many people are eligible voters, though. Or, if a good source can be found, number of registered voters? LuciusAreliusVerus ( talk) 13:21, 8 November 2020 (UTC) Edited to add signature. LuciusAreliusVerus ( talk) 13:21, 8 November 2020 (UTC)
It could be more informative and visual to replace the gray states in the electoral map at the top right of the article with light blue and light red states according to the latest count. This vote count is current objective, official true data, regardless of how the counting of the remaining in-mail votes will turn out. The map would be updated anyway if the voting trend switches.
Similarly, the "Results by state" table is rather useless: It's mostly blank, it does not even show the number of Electors for pending states, or the latest number of votes for any state. A better layout might also allow to view all states on one screen in 2/3 columns for all states, and moving other candidates to a more detailed table. The "Sort ascending" icons could be removed and this functionality moved to clicking on the column header, changing its tooltip. This table could use the same color coding as the electoral map, i.e. light blue or red to reflect the latest count of votes, and there could be 2 "Total" lines, the current one with all state counts that are officially closed, and one according to the latest vote counts. Eventually, as state counts get closed, these 2 totals will become identical, so it's not a political projection to provide this true data and update it regularly. Even so, wikipedia could perform projections, as long as they are based on objective mathematical formulas, not subjective opinions or polls. For instance, projecting what the final count would be based on the known or estimated remaining number of votes to count and the latest average percentage of the latest votes counted. Sure, it could change depending on specific counties, but the table averages would be updated as soon as the data for these counties are integrated, so the table can only turn more and more precise, and at the end, would be strictly identical to the official data. But really, not displaying such basic information as the number of Electors for pending states and the latest official count for every state is not helpful at all. The same table would work great for both the on-going election and the archived elections once all results are officially in. You would just need to remove the useless projected total line at that time. Chimel31 ( talk) 09:37, 8 November 2020 (UTC)
Is there any source that will eventually give us a total of registered voters for this election, so that we can calculate the exact turnout? -- Aréat ( talk) 10:06, 8 November 2020 (UTC)
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Under the "Racial unrest: section I would like the first sentence changed from "As a result of the killing of George Floyd and other incidents of police brutality against African Americans, combined with the effects of the COVID-19 pandemic, a series of protests and a wider period of racial unrest erupted in mid-2020." to "As a result of the killing of George Floyd and other incidents of accused "police brutality" against African Americans, combined with the effects of the COVID-19 pandemic, a series of protests and a wider period of racial unrest erupted in mid-2020." because the left calls actions done by police "Police Brutality" regardless if it was necessary or not. If a police officer is being attacked and kills the person the left says "Lets riot because this is 'Police Brutality' " so to keep this partisan please make that edit because many "Police brutality" claims this year is just the effort of the left to have the police removed for free reign as we've seen in various cities. Baseplate RBLX ( talk) 16:57, 8 November 2020 (UTC)
This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 10 | ← | Archive 15 | Archive 16 | Archive 17 | Archive 18 | Archive 19 | Archive 20 |
So Trump had just claimed that he's won the election and states that he would be going to Supreme Court to stop the count. Where does this get included? Juxlos ( talk) 07:33, 4 November 2020 (UTC)
For some sources: CNBC, Forbes, Fox News, BBC. Juxlos ( talk) 08:34, 4 November 2020 (UTC)
We might want to take a look at 2016 United States presidential election for a model. Under "Results" there are a number of prose sections, including "Election night" and "The next day". They include a brief summary of comments made by the two candidates. Currently our "Results" section includes no text, just tables to be filled in, but I think some textual information would be appropriate. -- MelanieN ( talk) 19:25, 4 November 2020 (UTC)
Re:
Special:Diff/987078667: It should specify the time zone (2:30am EST, I think?). Also, I think some care should be taken with regards to the wording here with regards to the vote counting. Trump specifically says we want all voting to stop
. As
the BBC article linked above interprets, most likely his meaning is he wants to block the counting of postal ballots, which can be legally accepted by some state election boards after Tuesday's election
. The wording "all vote counting to stop" conveys a slightly different nuance (something along the lines of "oh since we're ahead in the vote count in these states, we can declare victory here and not count the remaining precincts"). The argument (at face value; no comments on whether Trump intentionally phrased it in a misleading way or not) concerns the validity of ballots received after election day, not counted after election day. --
Ununseti (
talk) 20:27, 4 November 2020 (UTC)
“We’ll be going to the U.S. Supreme Court, we want all voting to stop,” Trump continued more than an hour after the final U.S. polls closed in Alaska. “We don’t want them to find any ballots at 4 o’clock in the morning and add them to the list.” It was unclear what Trump meant by “going to the Supreme Court,” given that the nation’s highest court is rarely the first judicial venue for a case, but rather, it reviews lower court rulings..
He promised to go to the Supreme Court to stop late vote-counting, though. The Fox News source interprets it as
Trump hinted the White House would push the Supreme Court to rule over disputed ballots, warning that a “very sad group of people” was trying to “disenfranchise” voters. This CTV source interprets it as
Earlier Wednesday, Trump attacked media organizations for not declaring him the winner, saying in an early-morning appearance that it was "a major fraud on our nation." "As far as I'm concerned, we already have won this," he said, calling for outstanding ballots not to be counted.Meanwhile this AP News source just kinda snarks a bit on Trump's word choice:
Trump says: “We’ll be going to the U.S. Supreme Court — we want all voting to stop.” In fact, there is no more voting — just counting.-- Ununseti ( talk) 22:34, 4 November 2020 (UTC)
Hi,
Can someone set up archiving for this talk page? It's getting pretty lengthy. Thanks, David O. Johnson ( talk) 04:57, 4 November 2020 (UTC)
can someone start colouring in the official colours of the winners in each state which are officially announced now?, this is how we followed the elections in 2016... its impossible to follow it here this time around cause everyone is lazy and refusing to do it, just add those stated confirmed and its that easy..-- 27.123.139.73 ( talk) 02:06, 4 November 2020 (UTC)
It just seems so historical. America, the country that was once known for its democratic freedom around the globe, may be throwing it all away. If Trump loses to Joe, he may take it to the state OR supreme court. If they agree with him and his reason, he may actually be awarded the presidency by the court despite Joe winning. Don't you understand? This has never happened in America before! I would really like to recommend that you include his statements on calling the election a "fraud" and "rigged." He may refuse to concede if he suffers defeat. Maybe include voter suppression as well. Let's not forget he wanted to stop the counting of ballots. SweetMilkTea13 ( talk) 01:43, 5 November 2020 (UTC)
@ SweetMilkTea13:, if the counting is stopped across the United States, Biden will win the presidency, as he has a lead in Nevada and Arizona. CNN has called 253 electoral college votes for him. Now,With AZ (11) and NV(6), He will have 17 electoral votes, thus winning the race. However, Trump still has a chance in Nevada, AZ, PA, GA, NC. And Biden will not a landslide victory, because Trump won in Florida, Iowa, Ohio. So all the votes need to be counted. I still think Trump has a pathway to victory. Biden needs to win more than 300 electoral college votes to avoid "Bush vs. Gore" scenario! Ppt2003 ( talk) 02:44, 5 November 2020 (UTC)
In the lead-up to the election, as well as on election night, Trump made frequent false claims intended to cast doubt on the legitimacy of the election, as well as refusing to commit to a peaceful transfer of power.That's sufficient in my view. {{u| Sdkb}} talk 07:00, 5 November 2020 (UTC)
@ Juxlos:, I would say -"The morning after election day/The following day. Ppt2003 ( talk) 11:25, 5 November 2020 (UTC)
News just came in a few minutes ago, but there were intense clashes between the police and protesters as they demanded to 'count every vote." [1] Although no one was killed, several people were injured. It would be more informative if someone created an article revolving around this terrible situation. SweetMilkTea13 ( talk) 05:57, 5 November 2020 (UTC)
@ Albertaont: Well written article! I'm going to leave it at "protests" for now. Yes many have been arrested and there has been some critical injuries as a result of clashes between police, Trump supporters and Biden supporters, but so far no one has died. I really hope we can keep it this way, but if we do see some deaths after the results are finalized then we definitely have to switch the title to "riots." SweetMilkTea13 ( talk) 05:58, 6 November 2020 (UTC)
References
Mention that Joe Biden got more votes than any other presidential candidate in history (you could also mention he was first to 70 million votes but that may be too trivial) Nojus R ( talk) 18:35, 5 November 2020 (UTC)
It's currently in the lead.— Bagumba ( talk) 02:45, 13 November 2020 (UTC)
In the second sentence, perhaps it should be changed to Voters selected
presidential electors who in turn will vote on December 14, 2020...
, as voting is done. We could also de-bold the popular vote results. I know that Biden is, in all likelihood, going to win the popular vote, but it's still a possibility for Trump (though low) to win the popular vote, with ~10% of ballots outstanding. Thoughts? Thanks,
Thanoscar21
talk,
contribs 20:22, 5 November 2020 (UTC)
Hello. I have looked through this page and tried to find all the relevant discussions. What I've done is posted the least speculative information about the electoral vote total (Decision Desk HQ, which powers many news organizations, and the NYT). Some sources (AP, Fox) project AZ to Biden. Other's don't. When in doubt, leave it out.
This should be good overnight. Tomorrow morning the total and map may need to be updated. The remaining number of updates will be few and easily accomplished. Jehochman Talk 04:30, 6 November 2020 (UTC)
Underneath the map, add "Red denotes states won by Trump/Pence and blue denotes those won by Biden/Harris [and grey denotes too close or early to call]. Numbers indicate electoral votes cast by each state and the District of Columbia." as per tradition. Nojus R ( talk) 04:52, 6 November 2020 (UTC)
The edits needed are these, for the avoidance of doubt:
Thank you. Jehochman Talk 13:09, 6 November 2020 (UTC)
"Megachurch pastor and televangelist Paula White-Cain, who is spiritual adviser to President Donald Trump, delivered a prayer service Wednesday night in an effort to secure Trump's reelection."
Video fragment of prayer service
Count Iblis ( talk) 18:20, 6 November 2020 (UTC)
The only states that weren't definitively called last time I checked were PA, AZ, NV, GA, NC, and AK, where Biden had 253 electoral votes and Trump had 214, therefore making PA have more than the 17 Biden needs to win. 270ToWin says PA is called for Biden, but IDK if it officially, definitively is called for Biden. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 135.180.2.61 ( talk) at 18:26, 7 November 2020 (UTC)
Greetings! I was just curious; how come on this the pictures were swapped from left to right? Thanks kindly! (Keep up the good work) 1holeinmysock ( talk) 19:53, 6 November 2020 (UTC)
Why is it considered so? Especially given its large amounts of bias and other issues with the site? Aardwolf68 ( talk) 22:59, 6 November 2020 (UTC)
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Florida also voted for the losing candidate for the first time since 1992. Can you please add that? Please. 2601:40A:8480:1750:6D0B:C890:CA84:68AA ( talk) 01:20, 10 November 2020 (UTC)
It does not even state that the supposed loser is contesting the results. [3]. wp:npov is not the rule of the land anymore? 205.175.106.156 ( talk) 02:49, 10 November 2020 (UTC)
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The Prime minister of Nepal has Congratulated Joe Biden via Twitter say "Heartiest congratulations to President-elect @JoeBiden
and Vice-President-elect
@KamalaHarris
on your impressive and historic election victory. I look forward to working closely with the new US leadership in further strengthening friendly ties between our two countries."
[1] 174.21.108.255 ( talk) 00:59, 8 November 2020 (UTC)
The front page states:
"Joe Biden wins the United States presidential election."
While the article avoids claiming that: "All major news outlets projecting the race have projected that Biden has won the election, including ABC News, the Associated Press, Business Insider, CNN, Decision Desk HQ, Fox News, MSNBC, NBC News, The New York Times, Reuters, and Vox.[5] Counting continues to determine the final results. "
and
" Joe Biden, the presumptive winner of the 2020 presidential election, pending the formal voting by the Electoral College in mid-December, is scheduled to be inaugurated on January 20, 2021"
Please fix this by either stating that Biden has won the election, or explain why the claim is avoided. Thank you.-- TZubiri ( talk) 00:02, 8 November 2020 (UTC)
Note: The page Joe Biden claims the win, while Donald Trump avoids it. Whatever decision you take is ok, I just want to see where this article stands, and take that up to the front page if necessary.-- TZubiri ( talk) 00:06, 8 November 2020 (UTC)
AP has called Nevada for Biden. [4] 331dot ( talk) 19:14, 7 November 2020 (UTC)
I removed the sentence This is the first presidential election in which both the major candidates are over 70.
from the last paragraph in the lead, since it's only
WP:DUE to spend so much time on the ages of the candidates, and the paragraph already mentions that If elected, Biden would become the oldest person to serve as president at 78 years old on the day of his inauguration
and If reelected, Trump would be the oldest president to be inaugurated in U.S. history, as he would be 74 at the time of the 2021 inauguration.
. I noticed that it was back today, and after some digging (a ping rather than a stealth revert would've been appreciated), I found that
Paintspot
re-added it with summary Undid removal. It's not redundant – it's an additional fact
. I'm not persuaded by that. What do others think? {{u|
Sdkb}}
talk 06:51, 5 November 2020 (UTC)
Never before in our history has the nation been confronted with a choice of leaders all of whom were 70 or more. I would suppose this fact is far from trivial. -- Dps04 ( talk) 17:43, 5 November 2020 (UTC)
I understand the countroversy around the EC and the states yet to be called, etc. But why shouldn't we post the Popular Vote total as it's being updated? Said number isn't going to change the state of the race and I see no reason why we shouldn't put it in the Infobox. Apologies if a consensus was reached about it, I didn't find it before posting this. -- yeah_93 ( talk) 17:30, 5 November 2020 (UTC)
Now that the election (the voting, but not the counting) is over, what should we do about the Demographic trends section? Some of it is speculation on the impact of demographic changes on the result. Should the actual results be included in this section, or not? If we do include information about results, do we wait until the media starts publishing stories like "suburban women cost Trump the election", etc.? — Naddruf ( talk ~ contribs) 22:46, 5 November 2020 (UTC)
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Article states that Biden, if inaugurated, would be the 2nd former vice-president to be elected president & first since Richard Nixon. This is false, George H. W. Bush won the 1988 presidential election and served as Ronald Reagan’s Vice President from 1981-1989. 147.226.73.199 ( talk) 19:04, 5 November 2020 (UTC)
{{
edit extended-protected}}
template. I have changed "former" to "non-incumbent", however, after re-reading the sentence and seeing the potential for confusion. –
Jonesey95 (
talk) 19:35, 5 November 2020 (UTC)
Only former vice president to become president in a non-immediate fashionwhile under Bush is says he was the
Fourth sitting vice president elected president. I would say it might be fair to include as long as the wording is clear. -- Super Goku V ( talk) 02:31, 6 November 2020 (UTC)
What about an own section listing all the historical firsts or records this election comes with by now already? Record participation, Biden receiving more votes than any other candidate in US history, historical record of number or percentage of mail-in voting, and if I understand CNN right, Biden may be the first Democrat presidential candidate winning Arizona and Trump may be the first Republican candidate winning Ohio but losing the election. Of course, it's too early to call the latter two, but once they're called, I think they should be mentioned in such a section. -- 2003:EF:1703:A528:D960:9B1:48A9:97E5 ( talk) 03:02, 6 November 2020 (UTC)
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Change:
The 2020 United States presidential election was the 59th quadrennial presidential election. It was held on Tuesday, November 3, 2020, and won by Joe Biden.
To:
The 2020 United States presidential election was the 59th quadrennial presidential election, held on Tuesday, November 3, 2020. Former vice-president Joe Biden and US Senator from California Kamala Harris defeated incumbents President Donald Trump and Vice President Mike Pence. Miss Show Business ( talk) 05:30, 8 November 2020 (UTC)
It's currently resolved.— Bagumba ( talk) 09:27, 13 November 2020 (UTC)
Something is messed up with the Don Blankenship row in this table. I am not confident in my ability to edit this, so I am leaving this note here in case someone with more skill comes along. -- Khajidha ( talk) 00:27, 7 November 2020 (UTC)
I think the edit made at 20:40, 6 November 2020 should be reverted. While Joe Biden and Donald Trump would both be the oldest candidates to have been inaugurated, at 78 and 74, respectively, this shouldn't be merged into the same sentence, as the previous versions of the article made a clear distinction between them: If Joe Biden is elected president, he would be the oldest person not just to be inaugurated as president, but to also serve as president in general, as no other president has reached the age of 78 while in office (Ronald Reagan left office at 77 years of age). 2600:8802:800:E4:49A8:CE00:8D10:7369 ( talk) 00:20, 7 November 2020 (UTC)
According to Washington Post - "For the first time in history, most Americans are expected to cast their ballots before Election Day.". This is an interesting info. Source - [5]. M.Karelin ( talk) 08:30, 7 November 2020 (UTC)
North Carolina is........BLUE ???? Really ?? Just look at the map. And look at the results - Trump is leading there !!!! 76.21.97.234 ( talk) 08:18, 7 November 2020 (UTC)
Maybe it's early yet, but I think the article should mention something about general turnout, I have the impression it was historically high. Compare 2016_United_States_presidential_election#Statistical_analysis. Gråbergs Gråa Sång ( talk) 12:11, 7 November 2020 (UTC)
Per [8]. P,TO 19104 ( talk) ( contribs) 16:31, 7 November 2020 (UTC)
This should not be updated until more news sources agree on the final results. As of now, most sources are still not saying there is a clear winner. Nightenbelle ( talk) 14:26, 6 November 2020 (UTC)
Decision Desk HQ and Business Insider have called it for Biden.
The New York Times has noted this. -- Valjean ( talk) 16:58, 6 November 2020 (UTC)
I think we should wait until the results are certified per WP:NPOV. I have never seen a case where the vote has been overturned, but we also don't have the state results up for the same reason (I assume). - Knowledgekid87 ( talk) 18:26, 6 November 2020 (UTC)
Should the line “ Some outlets, such as Fox News, and Reuters, have yet to call the election.” be changed due to the fact both of these outlets have put Biden over 270? Jcoolbro ( talk) (c) 16:52, 7 November 2020 (UTC)
AP calls presidential race for Joe Biden
It looks like Fox News may follow suit any moment. -- Valjean ( talk) 16:41, 7 November 2020 (UTC)
Fox has called the election. As has ABC. Jcoolbro ( talk) (c) 16:47, 7 November 2020 (UTC)
So it would be okay to update the article then and declare Biden winner? IllQuill ( talk) 16:47, 7 November 2020 (UTC)
Fox News has called for Biden per YouTube and their website Sau226 ( talk) 16:48, 7 November 2020 (UTC)
EVERYONE does it now. -- Valjean ( talk) 16:49, 7 November 2020 (UTC)
If our past consensus was to reflect this consensus, it seems like it might be time? Chris vLS ( talk) 16:58, 7 November 2020 (UTC)
Fox News is now the first one to give Nevada to Biden (290). -- Valjean ( talk) 17:02, 7 November 2020 (UTC)
AP gives Nevada to Biden (290). -- Valjean ( talk) 17:27, 7 November 2020 (UTC)
I suggest the creation of a new section of reactions to Biden victory; here the first 5 international reactions (in chronological order)
-- KajenCAT ( talk) 17:46, 7 November 2020 (UTC)
Could someone update the electoral college map to add ME-2 for republican?
- 2605:8D80:602:3C82:E4A5:B21E:D812:88B6 ( talk) 17:50, 7 November 2020 (UTC)
This edit request by an editor with a conflict of interest was declined. |
Iranian apt targeted US voter registration data https://us-cert.cisa.gov/ncas/alerts/aa20-304a Baratiiman ( talk) 14:48, 7 November 2020 (UTC)
I just uploaded the following press conference from November 5:
This press conference is notable because almost every sentence that the president says is demonstrably false, and there are many sources that have noted this particular conference for that fact. I also suggest that the disinformation coming from the White House [1], Rudy Giuliani [2], Alex Jones [3], etc. regarding the election be noted in the article.
Victor Grigas ( talk) 13:50, 7 November 2020 (UTC)
Howdy. Didn't we hold off from using Elected President in the infobox until the Electoral College voted, in the 2016 United States presidential election article, four years ago? Are we going to do the same, here? GoodDay ( talk) 17:01, 7 November 2020 (UTC)
I take it once this is all over, we can add a bit saying, Trump is the most successful president* ( * in the respect of his lost... compared to bush snr, carter etc etc) who failed reelection, as he managed to increase his share of the vote while picking up 8 million more voters overall from his 1st election, and only lost the states he required by 61'000 vote.
Remember this is in the current context, of his lose, IE he must be the only person seeking re-election to increase vote and still lose. -- Crazyseiko ( talk) 14:12, 7 November 2020 (UTC)
As he has now lost, does anyone with a neutral point have a input? no other one term president who losted has never managed to keep or go above there original share of the route. Thats is the point. how else do you skirt around the main points, he was successful in that point, he still lost. -- Crazyseiko ( talk) 17:19, 7 November 2020 (UTC)
It's not accurate, though, since John Quincy Adams in 1828 increased both his vote count and percentage share compared to 1824 despite losing reelection. 170.55.23.174 ( talk) 22:13, 7 November 2020 (UTC)
I am saddened to see a flag salad international reactions section cluttering up this already overlong article. It has no encyclopedic value, and it is a quotefarm. Should it be deleted? Or be spun off? Abductive ( reasoning) 01:01, 8 November 2020 (UTC)
The 2016 presidential election page has its second line as "The Republican ticket of businessman Donald Trump and Indiana governor Mike Pence defeated the Democratic ticket of former secretary of state Hillary Clinton and U.S. senator from Virginia Tim Kaine." Since we're already treating Biden as the president-elect on his page, would it not be consistent to use the same formatting here now, obviously replacing names and such? Stavd3 ( talk) 01:08, 8 November 2020 (UTC)
I noticed that on the infobox under "states carried" we have Biden carrying Nebraska's 2nd and Trump caring Maine 2nd, but don't have Trump carrying Nebraska's 1st and 3rd or Biden carrying Maine 1st. Should we add Nebraska 1 and 3 and Maine 1 to "states carried" in infobox? Iamreallygoodatcheckers ( talk) 02:28, 8 November 2020 (UTC)
Please add a section on LGBT rights. -- 2601:C4:C300:1BD0:B12E:7FE8:276:C4A ( talk) 23:23, 5 November 2020 (UTC)
I noticed that the article's infobox refers to Biden as the President-elect. The article for President-elect of the United States itself says (in opening paragraph) "If the result of an election is unclear or disputed, no person is normally referred to as president-elect until the dispute is resolved." As the Trump campaign continues to dispute the election result, is it correct to continue to refer to Biden conclusively as the President-elect? Or at least should there be a tag that this is currently in dispute? Kidburla ( talk) 23:45, 7 November 2020 (UTC)
Voter Turnout deserves a sub heading in results, can someone please add? Tx Billyshiverstick ( talk) 03:49, 8 November 2020 (UTC)
Perhaps it would be worth the research to find the proportion of votes cast per the population of the US. According to National Archives the electoral college in this election is based on the 2010 census. Seems it would be more accurate to use population figures for 2020, which can be found at the Population Clock. Would need to find out how many people are eligible voters, though. Or, if a good source can be found, number of registered voters? LuciusAreliusVerus ( talk) 13:21, 8 November 2020 (UTC) Edited to add signature. LuciusAreliusVerus ( talk) 13:21, 8 November 2020 (UTC)
It could be more informative and visual to replace the gray states in the electoral map at the top right of the article with light blue and light red states according to the latest count. This vote count is current objective, official true data, regardless of how the counting of the remaining in-mail votes will turn out. The map would be updated anyway if the voting trend switches.
Similarly, the "Results by state" table is rather useless: It's mostly blank, it does not even show the number of Electors for pending states, or the latest number of votes for any state. A better layout might also allow to view all states on one screen in 2/3 columns for all states, and moving other candidates to a more detailed table. The "Sort ascending" icons could be removed and this functionality moved to clicking on the column header, changing its tooltip. This table could use the same color coding as the electoral map, i.e. light blue or red to reflect the latest count of votes, and there could be 2 "Total" lines, the current one with all state counts that are officially closed, and one according to the latest vote counts. Eventually, as state counts get closed, these 2 totals will become identical, so it's not a political projection to provide this true data and update it regularly. Even so, wikipedia could perform projections, as long as they are based on objective mathematical formulas, not subjective opinions or polls. For instance, projecting what the final count would be based on the known or estimated remaining number of votes to count and the latest average percentage of the latest votes counted. Sure, it could change depending on specific counties, but the table averages would be updated as soon as the data for these counties are integrated, so the table can only turn more and more precise, and at the end, would be strictly identical to the official data. But really, not displaying such basic information as the number of Electors for pending states and the latest official count for every state is not helpful at all. The same table would work great for both the on-going election and the archived elections once all results are officially in. You would just need to remove the useless projected total line at that time. Chimel31 ( talk) 09:37, 8 November 2020 (UTC)
Is there any source that will eventually give us a total of registered voters for this election, so that we can calculate the exact turnout? -- Aréat ( talk) 10:06, 8 November 2020 (UTC)
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Under the "Racial unrest: section I would like the first sentence changed from "As a result of the killing of George Floyd and other incidents of police brutality against African Americans, combined with the effects of the COVID-19 pandemic, a series of protests and a wider period of racial unrest erupted in mid-2020." to "As a result of the killing of George Floyd and other incidents of accused "police brutality" against African Americans, combined with the effects of the COVID-19 pandemic, a series of protests and a wider period of racial unrest erupted in mid-2020." because the left calls actions done by police "Police Brutality" regardless if it was necessary or not. If a police officer is being attacked and kills the person the left says "Lets riot because this is 'Police Brutality' " so to keep this partisan please make that edit because many "Police brutality" claims this year is just the effort of the left to have the police removed for free reign as we've seen in various cities. Baseplate RBLX ( talk) 16:57, 8 November 2020 (UTC)