This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 80 | ← | Archive 82 | Archive 83 | Archive 84 | Archive 85 | Archive 86 | → | Archive 90 |
Hi everyone, I'm stuck as to how to help with the article on Zecchi. It was blanked for a suspected copyright violation but the creator has given an explanation on the article's talk page of why he/she thinks it's not a copyright violation. It's been sitting there for about 6 or 7 days now with nothing happening. I've posted on the copyright problems page here but no response. /info/en/?search=Wikipedia:Copyright_problems/2020_September_4 Any thoughts? TIA! MurielMary ( talk) 10:26, 13 September 2020 (UTC)
I have also just removed the copyvio tag at the top of the article. Here's what it flagged: diff If we are to avoid job titles, fields of study, academic departments, etc. as copyvios in every article, Wikipedia as a whole cannot survive. This was an extreme case of overreaction, and should never have happened. — Maile ( talk) 12:59, 14 September 2020 (UTC)
A new user posted at the teahouse saying that this person is non-notable. Anyone here able to improve the article to establish notability, or alternately to confirm the user's beliefs and prod/etc.? Calliopejen1 ( talk) 21:30, 15 September 2020 (UTC)
I recently began writing a profile on Jayne MacDonald. Sadly Jane (aged 16) was the fifth victim of the British serial killer known as The Yorkshire Ripper (Peter Sutcliffe). I noticed that none of his 13 known victims had anything written about them - they were just line items on his profile.
Jayne was particularly notable for two reasons: 1. Her death marked a significant change in the investigation because she was regarded as an 'innocent' victim. The previous 4 murders (and possibly more that have never been established) were seen as not as important because the women were dismissed as prostitutes or of low morality. This is an old theme in police investigations of murdered women, but was particularly notable in this case (this issue has been extensively covered). Had the police not seen the investigation as less important, less urgent (the investigation was bungled) more women might not have died. The press only became interested and resources thrown at the case after Jayne was killed. The case is also significant because of the widespread fear it engendered in the North of England amongst women, which altered their behaviour - they were told by authorities not to go out at night or alone. Feminists actually protested this and it was the start of the reclaim the night movement (see Reclaim_the_Night) The impact of these murders on women in the North of England was huge. 2. Jane is also significant because her mother took an unusual step. She sued her murderer and won (the first time this was ever done). This was therefore a landmark case in British law.
Jane's murder was covered internationally, as well as her mother's victory in court. However, having put together the basic article which I was going to add more details to and link to these issues, an editor immediately came along and delinked my profile of Jane from the Yorkshire Ripper's profile and then proposed by article for deletion, citing an essay 'murder of'. This says that everyday murders are not worthy of an article about the victims (fair enough). But he misapplied the criteria laid out in this article to attempt to delete the article about Jayne.
What this brings up is a much bigger issue. While I agree that most murders are local matters (we can't have an article for every DV murder, for example), the victims of notorious cases are often female. This article (murder of) is being used to create a situation where victims are only line items on a murderer's article - effectively revictimising the woman by removing any information about her, the impact of her death etc. It creates a situation where men become notable by murdering women but their victims are deemed unnotable, unimportant and just a means to and end (the fame of the murderer). I have a real problem with that.
I have found a lot of murdered women - extensively covered in the press - that are not noted on wikipedia. Effectively what is happening is deletion of the impact of these crimes against women so that the crime is only recorded/told from the male perspective. So while there is much detail about what the murderer did to the women and what happened to him when he was caught, there is no detailing of who the woman was, and often little detail on the impact on her family and wider society. You will note that women have tried to 'take back' this case and retell the story from women's point of view (see https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-50016862) You will note that the profile about the murderer (Peter Sutcliffe) almost celebrates him. Sections include 'legacy' and 'media'. It focuses a lot on what he did, his mental state etc but not on the horrendous impact he had on women or women's reactions to what he did.
For me this opened up an entire issue about how murders are recorded on wikipedia so that they do not tell everything from the male perspective. eg his first recorded attack was against a woman he said was a prostitute. But what evidence do we have for that? Police saying she was a prostitute doesn't count unless substantiated because we know that police have a track record of saying women were prostitutes just because they were out at night or liked a good time. So women are by default labelled as such because in the historic press they are recorded as such, whether accurate or not.
I apologise for the length of this talk item but I wanted to lay out my concerns and get opinion on this. I find it perverse that a woman victim has to be a subsection of her murderer's article and be framed solely within his crime. I also find it strange that so many male editors are so defensive of their serial killer profiles (often badly written) and women's perspectives on these crimes (what we see as important eg their impact) are deleted to focus on what men think is important (eg the investigation, punishment and notoriety). SandrinaHatman ( talk) 05:30, 11 September 2020 (UTC)
the criminal or victim in question should be the subject of a Wikipedia article only if one of the following applies...The victim or person wrongly convicted, consistent with Wikipedia:Biographies of living persons#Subjects notable only for one event, had a large role within a well-documented historic event. Styling an article the "murder of" is objectifying, basically saying that the only notability is from being a victim. But that isn't the case. Jayne MacDonald was different from the other victims. As an "innocent", she made people take notice that anyone could be a victim of her perpetrator and pointed out sexism in the police investigation. Much like we don't have an article titled The murder of Anne Frank, but rather one titled Anne Frank, MacDonald's notability was posthumously created because "she" (not all the victims, not just the crime) became a symbol of " everywoman" and the subject of a landmark legal decision. SusunW ( talk) 16:15, 11 September 2020 (UTC)
Although I don’t like the titling convention, at least we can keep the story by arguing the EVENT was notable, and we have many articles about victims under the heading, “murder of”. Murder of Natalee Holloway, for example.). That’s one way to make victims’ voices heard, and a longstanding consensus to keep such articles. I hate the objectification too, particularly when Lawnchair Larry gets an article under his own name, but that’s a different battle. Montanabw (talk) 16:57, 11 September 2020 (UTC)
Everyone chatting here should post at the AfD, as one way of the other, there is not yet a clear consensus. Montanabw (talk) 17:10, 14 September 2020 (UTC)
I had not noticed this before - it's been a while since I've been on the SAAM website - but the Smithsonian American Art Museum currently breaks women artists out of its comprehensive collection database and makes it easier to browse them. Lots of fodder for expansion there, especially in some of the craft/decorative arts. -- Ser Amantio di Nicolao Che dicono a Signa? Lo dicono a Signa. 16:13, 17 September 2020 (UTC)
As some of you probably know, I look at the updates to our membership list each day, welcome those who have just joined the project and add their names to our mass messaging lists. When I first looked at it today, I noticed two new names for 15 September, Agillianchu and JoGDelta. I had just welcomed Agillianchu and was ready to welcome the second person I had seen but JoGDelta was no longer there and in the meantime I had forgotten the name. I thought it might be a cache problem - but it wasn't. I then looked at the revision history and found that between 01:38 and 11:08 on 17 September, there had been no less than 16 updates, most of them adding and deleting these two names. As of now, they have both been deleted with an editing comment "Tag: Manual revert". I see from the history of Wikipedia:WikiProject Women in Red/Members/Inactive that they have in fact been added to and deleted from the "inactive" list but it is no longer possible to view the list. Harej is listed as being responsible for Reports bot but I understand he is no longer active. Can anyone advise on what's going on and find out if we can stop all these adjustments. It's important that the names of new members should be properly maintained, especially over the first few days of their membership.(cc: Rosiestep, Victuallers, MarioGom).-- Ipigott ( talk) 12:52, 17 September 2020 (UTC)
The Dictionary of Welsh Biography is looking for writers: https://biography.wales/bylchau. Gamaliel ( talk) 11:43, 18 September 2020 (UTC)
There are still over 320 unreferenced women BLPs documented here. Some like Tara Newley, who is genuinely notable (just not with citations to anything), should be easy if we accepted the Daily Mail and Daily Express as suitable sources for a BLP ... but we don't. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 20:24, 17 September 2020 (UTC)
New bio started with Sonia_Raman - first Indian-American woman to be named a coach in the National Basketball Association. Help appreciated! -- Fuzheado | Talk 19:28, 17 September 2020 (UTC)
Not a woman bio, but thought I'd call your attention to this in case anyone is interested. This ended up being draftified as a result of a not-well-attended deletion discussion, and it is 3 mos away from G13 deletion. In case anyone is interested in editing it... Calliopejen1 ( talk) 21:33, 18 September 2020 (UTC)
Anyone want to take this under their wing? I've discovered a treasure trove of drafts about Korean literature written presumably as a class or GLAM project, a shocking number of which (even for jaded me) were declined and/or G13 deleted. This one needs some NPOV work but I think is likely to qualify for an article, especially in light of the overall quality of the articles that seem to have been part of this project. Calliopejen1 ( talk) 20:20, 12 September 2020 (UTC)
I know this is kind of a radical idea, but what about an RfC to abolish AfC? Montanabw (talk) 17:16, 14 September 2020 (UTC)
AfC can be such a mess. I approved the woman academic Florence Banku Obi who is notable, but it was originally denied with the reasoning that it isn't written in a formal tone (it is) and "The parts in bullet points need to be re-written as paragraphs/text" (not even a reason to not accept a draft, but it is a reason for a cleanup tag). I will try to keep a closer eye out at unapproved drafts. SL93 ( talk) 04:45, 17 September 2020 (UTC)
@ PamD and Ipigott: FYI, I started a discussion about this topic at Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Articles_for_creation#Major_AFC_fail_re:_Korean_literature. Calliopejen1 ( talk) 21:27, 18 September 2020 (UTC)
While most new users create their first articles in their user space, I have recently noticed several cases in which AfC reviewers move the articles to draft space, explaining that this is a more appropriate starting point. Once there, they are listed as drafts by tools such as AlexNewBot and can be picked up and sometimes even deleted before the user has finished working on them. They are also deleted if they are in draft space for too long. If users do submit them to AfC, there is a pretty good chance they will be rejected. I always recommend that new users should develop their articles in their user space, especially as they can work on more than one article at a time and are under no time constraints. I wonder if there is any way this process can be stopped.-- Ipigott ( talk) 08:21, 15 September 2020 (UTC)
What do Wikipedians need to make more diverse content? Better redlink listmaking? Highlighting more translation opportunities? Building editathon and campaign tracking software? Something else?
‘Humaniki’ is the merging of two previous Wikimedia data tools for diversity-focused editors - Wikidata Human Gender Indicators (WHGI) and Denelezh. Both of these previous projects enabled statistics about the biography gender gap in Wikimedia projects, but now need extra work to make those insights actionable for editors. This new WMF-grant-funded project seeks to do that work by participatory co-designing features with the editor community. The results of this study will help provide design recommendations to help develop useful features for the community - Sejal Khatri ( talk)
Call for participation:
We are looking for people interested in participating in this research! Are you a diversity-focused editor? or Do you have feature suggestions? We would like to get your inputs. Research participants will receive a $10 gift card, to compensate editors for their time.
Fill the form in this link: LINK
Interested in learning more about us? - read our first blogpost
Hi everyone. This refers to User_talk:Missvain#Prerna_Gupta.
I don't have the capacity to assist her right now, so I'm reaching out to my friends here to see if anyone can help. I also tagged it with a help tag for kicks. The subject is Prerna Gupta. Turns out I wrote the Wikipedia article about her in 2012 (I didn't even remember, ha!). She wants the article about herself updated and she also drafted articles about her husband and the app she has created. I did tell her about the COI policy and that she'll have to recuse herself and that I'd look for help. Is anyone able to help? I'm sorry I can't right now, but, if someone is able to help her out, I'd be super grateful. Thank you! Missvain ( talk) 20:17, 18 September 2020 (UTC)
Hello! I'd be grateful for support with this draft on a very notable art historian and curator who worked for many years at the National Gallery in London. I've listed many publications, including several articles in scholarly journals (Burlington and Apollo), to reflect her activities over many years. The nature of art history is that an individual, newly discovered Italian renaissance altarpiece panel might not merit a whole book to itself, but it will be covered in an article, and that article carries academic weight (it's not just a trivial bit of journalism). Hoping for assistance in getting this article approved - many thanks in advance! CourtauldGill ( talk) 09:17, 10 September 2020 (UTC)
Hello, and thank you (belatedly) for your help and support. Really appreciate your encouragement to publish articles without going through AfC, which I've now started doing. Still finding my way around as a 3-month novice, but slowly gaining confidence! Thank you again :-) CourtauldGill ( talk) 14:53, 19 September 2020 (UTC)
Did you arrange for a contest afterwards? Would one in October or November be ideal?† Encyclopædius 18:04, 16 September 2020 (UTC)
@ Ipigott: Tak skal du have. Tre måneder er lang tid!† Encyclopædius 10:30, 21 September 2020 (UTC)
@ Ipigott: Meget godt, Asien har altid brug for arbejde! Jeg tror dansk også ville være nyttigt, men kun lidt for nu! Undertekster :-)† Encyclopædius 10:50, 21 September 2020 (UTC)
Women in Red | October 2020, Volume 6, Issue 10, Numbers 150, 173, 178, 179
|
--
Megalibrarygirl (
talk) 15:09, 21 September 2020 (UTC) via MassMessaging
Anyone will to create a redlist on Macau (Q14773)? It's the only one missing for our continental contest on Asia due to start on 1 October.-- Ipigott ( talk) 08:53, 21 September 2020 (UTC)
I would like a second opinion about a username. I asked an administrator who didn't see a problem with the username. On the reliable source noticeboard at the request for comment on the Mail on Sunday a single purpose account is being used in my opinion to disparage a female editor. The account Iesbian has a name that mimics the appearance of Lesbian, however, instead uses the capital letter "i" for the "L". The account has only made three minor edits in the past before they commented on the request for comment. I see the placement of the word "lesbian" in red below a female editor as rude and inappropriate. No one else seems to have complained, so am I being overly sensitive? -- Guest2625 ( talk) 06:48, 20 September 2020 (UTC)
The /Meetup subpages clutter Category:WikiProject Women in Red quite a bit; at the same time, a lot of them are only categorised in the year subcategories Category:Women in Red edit-a-thons. I suggest all these pages are moved to the year categories to clean the main category up. 𝟙𝟤𝟯𝟺𝐪𝑤𝒆𝓇𝟷𝟮𝟥𝟜𝓺𝔴𝕖𝖗𝟰 ( 𝗍𝗮𝘭𝙠) 18:15, 5 September 2020 (UTC)
I decided to drop by and see if anything needed my help. Looking at things, it seems clear to me that having 135+ meetups in Category:WikiProject Women in Red directly makes things harder to navigate/is pretty cluttered. So I removed those, and made sure they are all categorized in one of the sub-categories of Category:Women in Red edit-a-thons. Headbomb { t · c · p · b} 18:54, 22 September 2020 (UTC)
Input from those who can readily evaluate Spanish-language sources would be helpful. XOR'easter ( talk) 17:07, 23 September 2020 (UTC)
I've been doing some work on Category:Women by occupation and century over the past few weeks, and have added a few categories to what was already there. I thought it might be time to take stock of what we've got and brainstorm some other categories if need be. Right now, we have access to the following categories and their children:
I think that should cover the major disciplines - are there any other categories anyone can think of that might be useful? -- Ser Amantio di Nicolao Che dicono a Signa? Lo dicono a Signa. 01:36, 21 September 2020 (UTC)
I have a few concerns about this, mostly relating to the continued poor quality of the prolific work of Ser Amantio di Nicolao (SaDiN). I have raised these issue before with SaDiN on his talk, and received only passive-aggressive stonewalling. Since I have been pinged here, I will raise them again.
add [[:Category:20th-century non-fiction writers]]
or even to click the "do not use section edit summaries" option. That means that the edit summaries are all of the form "→External links: add category" or "→References: add category". In each case, the section title is superfluous (because all categories are added at the bottom of the page), and "add categories" is just the default edit summary. When doing a series of many hundreds of identical edits, failing to take the few seconds to set an informative edit summary leaves hundreds of edits obscure.I appreciate that there is great value in categorising women: I have done a lot of that myself. But the main effect of SaDiN's practices is to make it harder for others to do the job properly. And if I sound grumpy abut this, it's because I have a) repeatedly invested dozens of hours of my time in cleaning up the vast messes left by SaDiN's unauthorised bot indiscriminately populating categories which are already diffused, and b) wasted yet more time in futile attempts to ask SaDiN to respect the most basic elements of en.wp categorisation, such as WP:SUBCAT. -- BrownHairedGirl (talk) • ( contribs) 16:45, 21 September 2020 (UTC)
Here's an interesting one. Created a bunch of roles in Offenbach's operas. A number of photos exist.
...So what's her first name? Adam Cuerden ( talk)Has about 7.5% of all FPs 06:50, 22 September 2020 (UTC)
The Chicago Trib has written a great article about Jina Valentine's and Heather Hart's work on getting Black artists and institutions represented on Wikipedia. More than 1200 articles in 6 years is an incredible accomplishment, kudos! The idea of having a photo booth at edit-a-thons to get photos for articles is sheer genius by the way :D (Check out the BLT bingo card too!) - Yupik ( talk) 18:10, 24 September 2020 (UTC)
I've just found out that the Australian Academy of the Humanities, one of the country's national academies, maintains what appears to be a full catalogue of obituaries of its former fellows, which are routinely published in its annual proceedings. They are freely available here. I don't doubt there are many women among that list; one such red link is Sylvia Hallam, a "pioneering" archaeologist who died last year. It seems to me that these are fairly low-hanging fruit for this project – easy passes on WP:PROF and freely accessible, concise biographies. Would anyone be interested in creating some sort of Wikipedia-friendly set of links for these people? (There are probably a lot of red-linked men there too who need articles.) — Noswall59 ( talk) 11:16, 23 September 2020 (UTC).
Thanks all for looking into this: I don't really understand what you're doing, but it sounds useful! — Noswall59 ( talk) 16:38, 25 September 2020 (UTC).
I have been contemplating to raise issue of link between article title suppression which can lead to systemic bias, at WP:Vilagepump policy either as general discussion or RfC. I would be submitting some examples along with refs there. But since considerable instances are directly or indirectly do seem to touch with Women related articles too, that is my personal observation, I thought first I discuss here.
I will give an example I came across today. I have been supporting few of women rights related articles and few among them relate to South Asia incl. Pakistan. It is but natural once in a while I will visit article Violence against women in Pakistan. This time reason was an unfortunate rape incidence ( https://www.dawn.com/news/1578807) which moved Pakistani sentiment a bit, and taken up by women's rights organization and got media focus. As elsewhere quite a number of cases of Violence against Pakistani women too is affected by Gun culture there as in this case too.
So just I gave a thought to find and cross link see also sections of articles related to Gun culture in Pakistan with Violence against women in Pakistan, but then I realized 'Gun culture in Pakistan' article's original title was very much Gun culture in Pakistan and was in due course first renamed / redirected to Gun politics in Pakistan and then to Gun laws in Pakistan.
May be renaming/redirecting served temporary objective of transferring a stub article to article with more content, but on other hand chances of a stub article getting developed as per title objective get reduced and focus of readers and likely editors automatically unknowingly shifts to new topic what they are reading in this case Gun laws.
This is just one example, I have seen similar things happening about many important titles too. Personally I feel this contributes to systemic bias.
Just I wanted to know if any one else has come across such cases and issue ?, If any then please do share and discuss.
Thanks Bookku ( talk) 15:26, 25 September 2020 (UTC)
The brief chronology of the history of article shows When started in 2005 it's name was Gun culture in Pakistan in 2011 it was transferred without discussion to Gun politics in Pakistan with edit summary to match title consistency, in 2016 transferred to present title Gun law in Pakistan so original intended title was broader in that one could cover all related facets. Now under limited scope title covering Gun culture as a social tendency and issues become difficult.
Let me give different example article title Asian art is redirected to History of Asian Art so if some one wants to add contemporary Asian art would feel awkward. Recently I saw one article title 'Criticism or XYZ religion' has been transferred to anti XYZ sentiment; Coming back to women's topics Sexual politics title is utilized for book, so if if some one want to add nonbook info in the article will feel awkward.
Bookku ( talk) 18:09, 25 September 2020 (UTC)
Following #Meetup page categorisation above, I took it upon myself to structure Category:WikiProject Women in Red more intelligibly. The highlights are that the category is mostly for the 'core/main' WIR pages. You don't have all meetups listed, but you have the main meetup main page (which contains links the actual meetups). Likewise you don't have all essays listed, but the rather the main essay page (which contains links to the actual essays).
Further
This should make the category a lot more browsable for those who use it, and included the main WIR navigation bar at the top. I've also updated the sortkeys of a bunch of pages, so they would be where you expect them to be in the categories. Several are under ? because I don't exactly know if those pages should be renamed, or categorize in one ofthe other sub-categories. But they'll at least standout out as something that you might need to think about down the road. I also purged sandboxes from the category, since those were not meant to be categorized in the first place, and move user pages to the member categories.
Do feel free give the category a different structure/purpose, but I thought this would give you a more solid baseline on a go-forward basis than a category that had about 150 assorted pages in it. Headbomb { t · c · p · b} 20:04, 22 September 2020 (UTC)
The stub Glynnis McDaris (about an artist/curator) is miserable, and ripe for prodding. It has been so for over a decade, when it was stripped by two SPAs of most of its content -- but the deleted content was unsourced, so I'm not complaining. McDaris's own website is "coming soon" (i.e. is useless); but her conveniently unusual name does get ghits. I've been spending too much time editing WP recently and am not tempted to work on this. Anyone here interested? -- Hoary ( talk) 22:47, 24 September 2020 (UTC)
Don't forget our Women in Asia contest starts on 1 October with virtual awards for October, November and December. Prizes will be awarded each month to those who create most new biographies with at least 160 words of running text but you can also list shorter articles.-- Ipigott ( talk) 15:20, 29 September 2020 (UTC)
This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 80 | ← | Archive 82 | Archive 83 | Archive 84 | Archive 85 | Archive 86 | → | Archive 90 |
Hi everyone, I'm stuck as to how to help with the article on Zecchi. It was blanked for a suspected copyright violation but the creator has given an explanation on the article's talk page of why he/she thinks it's not a copyright violation. It's been sitting there for about 6 or 7 days now with nothing happening. I've posted on the copyright problems page here but no response. /info/en/?search=Wikipedia:Copyright_problems/2020_September_4 Any thoughts? TIA! MurielMary ( talk) 10:26, 13 September 2020 (UTC)
I have also just removed the copyvio tag at the top of the article. Here's what it flagged: diff If we are to avoid job titles, fields of study, academic departments, etc. as copyvios in every article, Wikipedia as a whole cannot survive. This was an extreme case of overreaction, and should never have happened. — Maile ( talk) 12:59, 14 September 2020 (UTC)
A new user posted at the teahouse saying that this person is non-notable. Anyone here able to improve the article to establish notability, or alternately to confirm the user's beliefs and prod/etc.? Calliopejen1 ( talk) 21:30, 15 September 2020 (UTC)
I recently began writing a profile on Jayne MacDonald. Sadly Jane (aged 16) was the fifth victim of the British serial killer known as The Yorkshire Ripper (Peter Sutcliffe). I noticed that none of his 13 known victims had anything written about them - they were just line items on his profile.
Jayne was particularly notable for two reasons: 1. Her death marked a significant change in the investigation because she was regarded as an 'innocent' victim. The previous 4 murders (and possibly more that have never been established) were seen as not as important because the women were dismissed as prostitutes or of low morality. This is an old theme in police investigations of murdered women, but was particularly notable in this case (this issue has been extensively covered). Had the police not seen the investigation as less important, less urgent (the investigation was bungled) more women might not have died. The press only became interested and resources thrown at the case after Jayne was killed. The case is also significant because of the widespread fear it engendered in the North of England amongst women, which altered their behaviour - they were told by authorities not to go out at night or alone. Feminists actually protested this and it was the start of the reclaim the night movement (see Reclaim_the_Night) The impact of these murders on women in the North of England was huge. 2. Jane is also significant because her mother took an unusual step. She sued her murderer and won (the first time this was ever done). This was therefore a landmark case in British law.
Jane's murder was covered internationally, as well as her mother's victory in court. However, having put together the basic article which I was going to add more details to and link to these issues, an editor immediately came along and delinked my profile of Jane from the Yorkshire Ripper's profile and then proposed by article for deletion, citing an essay 'murder of'. This says that everyday murders are not worthy of an article about the victims (fair enough). But he misapplied the criteria laid out in this article to attempt to delete the article about Jayne.
What this brings up is a much bigger issue. While I agree that most murders are local matters (we can't have an article for every DV murder, for example), the victims of notorious cases are often female. This article (murder of) is being used to create a situation where victims are only line items on a murderer's article - effectively revictimising the woman by removing any information about her, the impact of her death etc. It creates a situation where men become notable by murdering women but their victims are deemed unnotable, unimportant and just a means to and end (the fame of the murderer). I have a real problem with that.
I have found a lot of murdered women - extensively covered in the press - that are not noted on wikipedia. Effectively what is happening is deletion of the impact of these crimes against women so that the crime is only recorded/told from the male perspective. So while there is much detail about what the murderer did to the women and what happened to him when he was caught, there is no detailing of who the woman was, and often little detail on the impact on her family and wider society. You will note that women have tried to 'take back' this case and retell the story from women's point of view (see https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-50016862) You will note that the profile about the murderer (Peter Sutcliffe) almost celebrates him. Sections include 'legacy' and 'media'. It focuses a lot on what he did, his mental state etc but not on the horrendous impact he had on women or women's reactions to what he did.
For me this opened up an entire issue about how murders are recorded on wikipedia so that they do not tell everything from the male perspective. eg his first recorded attack was against a woman he said was a prostitute. But what evidence do we have for that? Police saying she was a prostitute doesn't count unless substantiated because we know that police have a track record of saying women were prostitutes just because they were out at night or liked a good time. So women are by default labelled as such because in the historic press they are recorded as such, whether accurate or not.
I apologise for the length of this talk item but I wanted to lay out my concerns and get opinion on this. I find it perverse that a woman victim has to be a subsection of her murderer's article and be framed solely within his crime. I also find it strange that so many male editors are so defensive of their serial killer profiles (often badly written) and women's perspectives on these crimes (what we see as important eg their impact) are deleted to focus on what men think is important (eg the investigation, punishment and notoriety). SandrinaHatman ( talk) 05:30, 11 September 2020 (UTC)
the criminal or victim in question should be the subject of a Wikipedia article only if one of the following applies...The victim or person wrongly convicted, consistent with Wikipedia:Biographies of living persons#Subjects notable only for one event, had a large role within a well-documented historic event. Styling an article the "murder of" is objectifying, basically saying that the only notability is from being a victim. But that isn't the case. Jayne MacDonald was different from the other victims. As an "innocent", she made people take notice that anyone could be a victim of her perpetrator and pointed out sexism in the police investigation. Much like we don't have an article titled The murder of Anne Frank, but rather one titled Anne Frank, MacDonald's notability was posthumously created because "she" (not all the victims, not just the crime) became a symbol of " everywoman" and the subject of a landmark legal decision. SusunW ( talk) 16:15, 11 September 2020 (UTC)
Although I don’t like the titling convention, at least we can keep the story by arguing the EVENT was notable, and we have many articles about victims under the heading, “murder of”. Murder of Natalee Holloway, for example.). That’s one way to make victims’ voices heard, and a longstanding consensus to keep such articles. I hate the objectification too, particularly when Lawnchair Larry gets an article under his own name, but that’s a different battle. Montanabw (talk) 16:57, 11 September 2020 (UTC)
Everyone chatting here should post at the AfD, as one way of the other, there is not yet a clear consensus. Montanabw (talk) 17:10, 14 September 2020 (UTC)
I had not noticed this before - it's been a while since I've been on the SAAM website - but the Smithsonian American Art Museum currently breaks women artists out of its comprehensive collection database and makes it easier to browse them. Lots of fodder for expansion there, especially in some of the craft/decorative arts. -- Ser Amantio di Nicolao Che dicono a Signa? Lo dicono a Signa. 16:13, 17 September 2020 (UTC)
As some of you probably know, I look at the updates to our membership list each day, welcome those who have just joined the project and add their names to our mass messaging lists. When I first looked at it today, I noticed two new names for 15 September, Agillianchu and JoGDelta. I had just welcomed Agillianchu and was ready to welcome the second person I had seen but JoGDelta was no longer there and in the meantime I had forgotten the name. I thought it might be a cache problem - but it wasn't. I then looked at the revision history and found that between 01:38 and 11:08 on 17 September, there had been no less than 16 updates, most of them adding and deleting these two names. As of now, they have both been deleted with an editing comment "Tag: Manual revert". I see from the history of Wikipedia:WikiProject Women in Red/Members/Inactive that they have in fact been added to and deleted from the "inactive" list but it is no longer possible to view the list. Harej is listed as being responsible for Reports bot but I understand he is no longer active. Can anyone advise on what's going on and find out if we can stop all these adjustments. It's important that the names of new members should be properly maintained, especially over the first few days of their membership.(cc: Rosiestep, Victuallers, MarioGom).-- Ipigott ( talk) 12:52, 17 September 2020 (UTC)
The Dictionary of Welsh Biography is looking for writers: https://biography.wales/bylchau. Gamaliel ( talk) 11:43, 18 September 2020 (UTC)
There are still over 320 unreferenced women BLPs documented here. Some like Tara Newley, who is genuinely notable (just not with citations to anything), should be easy if we accepted the Daily Mail and Daily Express as suitable sources for a BLP ... but we don't. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 20:24, 17 September 2020 (UTC)
New bio started with Sonia_Raman - first Indian-American woman to be named a coach in the National Basketball Association. Help appreciated! -- Fuzheado | Talk 19:28, 17 September 2020 (UTC)
Not a woman bio, but thought I'd call your attention to this in case anyone is interested. This ended up being draftified as a result of a not-well-attended deletion discussion, and it is 3 mos away from G13 deletion. In case anyone is interested in editing it... Calliopejen1 ( talk) 21:33, 18 September 2020 (UTC)
Anyone want to take this under their wing? I've discovered a treasure trove of drafts about Korean literature written presumably as a class or GLAM project, a shocking number of which (even for jaded me) were declined and/or G13 deleted. This one needs some NPOV work but I think is likely to qualify for an article, especially in light of the overall quality of the articles that seem to have been part of this project. Calliopejen1 ( talk) 20:20, 12 September 2020 (UTC)
I know this is kind of a radical idea, but what about an RfC to abolish AfC? Montanabw (talk) 17:16, 14 September 2020 (UTC)
AfC can be such a mess. I approved the woman academic Florence Banku Obi who is notable, but it was originally denied with the reasoning that it isn't written in a formal tone (it is) and "The parts in bullet points need to be re-written as paragraphs/text" (not even a reason to not accept a draft, but it is a reason for a cleanup tag). I will try to keep a closer eye out at unapproved drafts. SL93 ( talk) 04:45, 17 September 2020 (UTC)
@ PamD and Ipigott: FYI, I started a discussion about this topic at Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Articles_for_creation#Major_AFC_fail_re:_Korean_literature. Calliopejen1 ( talk) 21:27, 18 September 2020 (UTC)
While most new users create their first articles in their user space, I have recently noticed several cases in which AfC reviewers move the articles to draft space, explaining that this is a more appropriate starting point. Once there, they are listed as drafts by tools such as AlexNewBot and can be picked up and sometimes even deleted before the user has finished working on them. They are also deleted if they are in draft space for too long. If users do submit them to AfC, there is a pretty good chance they will be rejected. I always recommend that new users should develop their articles in their user space, especially as they can work on more than one article at a time and are under no time constraints. I wonder if there is any way this process can be stopped.-- Ipigott ( talk) 08:21, 15 September 2020 (UTC)
What do Wikipedians need to make more diverse content? Better redlink listmaking? Highlighting more translation opportunities? Building editathon and campaign tracking software? Something else?
‘Humaniki’ is the merging of two previous Wikimedia data tools for diversity-focused editors - Wikidata Human Gender Indicators (WHGI) and Denelezh. Both of these previous projects enabled statistics about the biography gender gap in Wikimedia projects, but now need extra work to make those insights actionable for editors. This new WMF-grant-funded project seeks to do that work by participatory co-designing features with the editor community. The results of this study will help provide design recommendations to help develop useful features for the community - Sejal Khatri ( talk)
Call for participation:
We are looking for people interested in participating in this research! Are you a diversity-focused editor? or Do you have feature suggestions? We would like to get your inputs. Research participants will receive a $10 gift card, to compensate editors for their time.
Fill the form in this link: LINK
Interested in learning more about us? - read our first blogpost
Hi everyone. This refers to User_talk:Missvain#Prerna_Gupta.
I don't have the capacity to assist her right now, so I'm reaching out to my friends here to see if anyone can help. I also tagged it with a help tag for kicks. The subject is Prerna Gupta. Turns out I wrote the Wikipedia article about her in 2012 (I didn't even remember, ha!). She wants the article about herself updated and she also drafted articles about her husband and the app she has created. I did tell her about the COI policy and that she'll have to recuse herself and that I'd look for help. Is anyone able to help? I'm sorry I can't right now, but, if someone is able to help her out, I'd be super grateful. Thank you! Missvain ( talk) 20:17, 18 September 2020 (UTC)
Hello! I'd be grateful for support with this draft on a very notable art historian and curator who worked for many years at the National Gallery in London. I've listed many publications, including several articles in scholarly journals (Burlington and Apollo), to reflect her activities over many years. The nature of art history is that an individual, newly discovered Italian renaissance altarpiece panel might not merit a whole book to itself, but it will be covered in an article, and that article carries academic weight (it's not just a trivial bit of journalism). Hoping for assistance in getting this article approved - many thanks in advance! CourtauldGill ( talk) 09:17, 10 September 2020 (UTC)
Hello, and thank you (belatedly) for your help and support. Really appreciate your encouragement to publish articles without going through AfC, which I've now started doing. Still finding my way around as a 3-month novice, but slowly gaining confidence! Thank you again :-) CourtauldGill ( talk) 14:53, 19 September 2020 (UTC)
Did you arrange for a contest afterwards? Would one in October or November be ideal?† Encyclopædius 18:04, 16 September 2020 (UTC)
@ Ipigott: Tak skal du have. Tre måneder er lang tid!† Encyclopædius 10:30, 21 September 2020 (UTC)
@ Ipigott: Meget godt, Asien har altid brug for arbejde! Jeg tror dansk også ville være nyttigt, men kun lidt for nu! Undertekster :-)† Encyclopædius 10:50, 21 September 2020 (UTC)
Women in Red | October 2020, Volume 6, Issue 10, Numbers 150, 173, 178, 179
|
--
Megalibrarygirl (
talk) 15:09, 21 September 2020 (UTC) via MassMessaging
Anyone will to create a redlist on Macau (Q14773)? It's the only one missing for our continental contest on Asia due to start on 1 October.-- Ipigott ( talk) 08:53, 21 September 2020 (UTC)
I would like a second opinion about a username. I asked an administrator who didn't see a problem with the username. On the reliable source noticeboard at the request for comment on the Mail on Sunday a single purpose account is being used in my opinion to disparage a female editor. The account Iesbian has a name that mimics the appearance of Lesbian, however, instead uses the capital letter "i" for the "L". The account has only made three minor edits in the past before they commented on the request for comment. I see the placement of the word "lesbian" in red below a female editor as rude and inappropriate. No one else seems to have complained, so am I being overly sensitive? -- Guest2625 ( talk) 06:48, 20 September 2020 (UTC)
The /Meetup subpages clutter Category:WikiProject Women in Red quite a bit; at the same time, a lot of them are only categorised in the year subcategories Category:Women in Red edit-a-thons. I suggest all these pages are moved to the year categories to clean the main category up. 𝟙𝟤𝟯𝟺𝐪𝑤𝒆𝓇𝟷𝟮𝟥𝟜𝓺𝔴𝕖𝖗𝟰 ( 𝗍𝗮𝘭𝙠) 18:15, 5 September 2020 (UTC)
I decided to drop by and see if anything needed my help. Looking at things, it seems clear to me that having 135+ meetups in Category:WikiProject Women in Red directly makes things harder to navigate/is pretty cluttered. So I removed those, and made sure they are all categorized in one of the sub-categories of Category:Women in Red edit-a-thons. Headbomb { t · c · p · b} 18:54, 22 September 2020 (UTC)
Input from those who can readily evaluate Spanish-language sources would be helpful. XOR'easter ( talk) 17:07, 23 September 2020 (UTC)
I've been doing some work on Category:Women by occupation and century over the past few weeks, and have added a few categories to what was already there. I thought it might be time to take stock of what we've got and brainstorm some other categories if need be. Right now, we have access to the following categories and their children:
I think that should cover the major disciplines - are there any other categories anyone can think of that might be useful? -- Ser Amantio di Nicolao Che dicono a Signa? Lo dicono a Signa. 01:36, 21 September 2020 (UTC)
I have a few concerns about this, mostly relating to the continued poor quality of the prolific work of Ser Amantio di Nicolao (SaDiN). I have raised these issue before with SaDiN on his talk, and received only passive-aggressive stonewalling. Since I have been pinged here, I will raise them again.
add [[:Category:20th-century non-fiction writers]]
or even to click the "do not use section edit summaries" option. That means that the edit summaries are all of the form "→External links: add category" or "→References: add category". In each case, the section title is superfluous (because all categories are added at the bottom of the page), and "add categories" is just the default edit summary. When doing a series of many hundreds of identical edits, failing to take the few seconds to set an informative edit summary leaves hundreds of edits obscure.I appreciate that there is great value in categorising women: I have done a lot of that myself. But the main effect of SaDiN's practices is to make it harder for others to do the job properly. And if I sound grumpy abut this, it's because I have a) repeatedly invested dozens of hours of my time in cleaning up the vast messes left by SaDiN's unauthorised bot indiscriminately populating categories which are already diffused, and b) wasted yet more time in futile attempts to ask SaDiN to respect the most basic elements of en.wp categorisation, such as WP:SUBCAT. -- BrownHairedGirl (talk) • ( contribs) 16:45, 21 September 2020 (UTC)
Here's an interesting one. Created a bunch of roles in Offenbach's operas. A number of photos exist.
...So what's her first name? Adam Cuerden ( talk)Has about 7.5% of all FPs 06:50, 22 September 2020 (UTC)
The Chicago Trib has written a great article about Jina Valentine's and Heather Hart's work on getting Black artists and institutions represented on Wikipedia. More than 1200 articles in 6 years is an incredible accomplishment, kudos! The idea of having a photo booth at edit-a-thons to get photos for articles is sheer genius by the way :D (Check out the BLT bingo card too!) - Yupik ( talk) 18:10, 24 September 2020 (UTC)
I've just found out that the Australian Academy of the Humanities, one of the country's national academies, maintains what appears to be a full catalogue of obituaries of its former fellows, which are routinely published in its annual proceedings. They are freely available here. I don't doubt there are many women among that list; one such red link is Sylvia Hallam, a "pioneering" archaeologist who died last year. It seems to me that these are fairly low-hanging fruit for this project – easy passes on WP:PROF and freely accessible, concise biographies. Would anyone be interested in creating some sort of Wikipedia-friendly set of links for these people? (There are probably a lot of red-linked men there too who need articles.) — Noswall59 ( talk) 11:16, 23 September 2020 (UTC).
Thanks all for looking into this: I don't really understand what you're doing, but it sounds useful! — Noswall59 ( talk) 16:38, 25 September 2020 (UTC).
I have been contemplating to raise issue of link between article title suppression which can lead to systemic bias, at WP:Vilagepump policy either as general discussion or RfC. I would be submitting some examples along with refs there. But since considerable instances are directly or indirectly do seem to touch with Women related articles too, that is my personal observation, I thought first I discuss here.
I will give an example I came across today. I have been supporting few of women rights related articles and few among them relate to South Asia incl. Pakistan. It is but natural once in a while I will visit article Violence against women in Pakistan. This time reason was an unfortunate rape incidence ( https://www.dawn.com/news/1578807) which moved Pakistani sentiment a bit, and taken up by women's rights organization and got media focus. As elsewhere quite a number of cases of Violence against Pakistani women too is affected by Gun culture there as in this case too.
So just I gave a thought to find and cross link see also sections of articles related to Gun culture in Pakistan with Violence against women in Pakistan, but then I realized 'Gun culture in Pakistan' article's original title was very much Gun culture in Pakistan and was in due course first renamed / redirected to Gun politics in Pakistan and then to Gun laws in Pakistan.
May be renaming/redirecting served temporary objective of transferring a stub article to article with more content, but on other hand chances of a stub article getting developed as per title objective get reduced and focus of readers and likely editors automatically unknowingly shifts to new topic what they are reading in this case Gun laws.
This is just one example, I have seen similar things happening about many important titles too. Personally I feel this contributes to systemic bias.
Just I wanted to know if any one else has come across such cases and issue ?, If any then please do share and discuss.
Thanks Bookku ( talk) 15:26, 25 September 2020 (UTC)
The brief chronology of the history of article shows When started in 2005 it's name was Gun culture in Pakistan in 2011 it was transferred without discussion to Gun politics in Pakistan with edit summary to match title consistency, in 2016 transferred to present title Gun law in Pakistan so original intended title was broader in that one could cover all related facets. Now under limited scope title covering Gun culture as a social tendency and issues become difficult.
Let me give different example article title Asian art is redirected to History of Asian Art so if some one wants to add contemporary Asian art would feel awkward. Recently I saw one article title 'Criticism or XYZ religion' has been transferred to anti XYZ sentiment; Coming back to women's topics Sexual politics title is utilized for book, so if if some one want to add nonbook info in the article will feel awkward.
Bookku ( talk) 18:09, 25 September 2020 (UTC)
Following #Meetup page categorisation above, I took it upon myself to structure Category:WikiProject Women in Red more intelligibly. The highlights are that the category is mostly for the 'core/main' WIR pages. You don't have all meetups listed, but you have the main meetup main page (which contains links the actual meetups). Likewise you don't have all essays listed, but the rather the main essay page (which contains links to the actual essays).
Further
This should make the category a lot more browsable for those who use it, and included the main WIR navigation bar at the top. I've also updated the sortkeys of a bunch of pages, so they would be where you expect them to be in the categories. Several are under ? because I don't exactly know if those pages should be renamed, or categorize in one ofthe other sub-categories. But they'll at least standout out as something that you might need to think about down the road. I also purged sandboxes from the category, since those were not meant to be categorized in the first place, and move user pages to the member categories.
Do feel free give the category a different structure/purpose, but I thought this would give you a more solid baseline on a go-forward basis than a category that had about 150 assorted pages in it. Headbomb { t · c · p · b} 20:04, 22 September 2020 (UTC)
The stub Glynnis McDaris (about an artist/curator) is miserable, and ripe for prodding. It has been so for over a decade, when it was stripped by two SPAs of most of its content -- but the deleted content was unsourced, so I'm not complaining. McDaris's own website is "coming soon" (i.e. is useless); but her conveniently unusual name does get ghits. I've been spending too much time editing WP recently and am not tempted to work on this. Anyone here interested? -- Hoary ( talk) 22:47, 24 September 2020 (UTC)
Don't forget our Women in Asia contest starts on 1 October with virtual awards for October, November and December. Prizes will be awarded each month to those who create most new biographies with at least 160 words of running text but you can also list shorter articles.-- Ipigott ( talk) 15:20, 29 September 2020 (UTC)