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A magazine called Forefront is listed on Quackwatch. A magazine named Forefront is cited on Endoxifen. Is is the same? Because the one cited is published by the Mayo Clinic, which doesn't strike me as a quack organization. Headbomb { t · c · p · b} 18:33, 14 March 2019 (UTC)
I have opened discussion as to whether a medical school Dean of a major academic institution should be considered notable, here.-- 2604:2000:E010:1100:8069:D17F:7325:3D9 ( talk) 03:50, 16 March 2019 (UTC)
Could someone look at the GA tick and see whether the NPR reference supporting red meat allergy associated with tick bites is adequate? I don't think it is, and removed the material accordingly, but was just reverted. Thanks, Espresso Addict ( talk) 21:32, 14 March 2019 (UTC)
We have a new project called Video Wiki which allows:
References
Doc James ( talk · contribs · email) 05:24, 27 February 2019 (UTC)
Could you please point us to instructions on how to update the video narrative and the visuals that are in the video? The script is editable, but changing the script does not seem to automatically update the video. Clayoquot ( talk | contribs) 22:48, 27 February 2019 (UTC)
While this is an interesting project, it is a long, very long, way from being suitable for incorporation into Wikipedia articles (even assuming the community wants such videos, which is currently a no). I see the Medium article opens with "Imagine seeing Usain Bolt’s world-record breaking 100 meters race rather than just reading about it. Imagine watching the beautiful Aurora lights while learning about them." The Aurora article already has four videos so I don't have to imagine. And the race video is hindered by valuable broadcasting rights by the organisations, but even assuming you got a volunteer to record the race and they were legally allowed to release the video, incorporating the race video into the article is trivial and does not require this technology. What instead we have got is
I looked at the Kerela and United Kingdom videos. Nearly lost the will to live. There is a reason why we like to listen to David Attenborough tell us about Galapagos tortoise mating rituals, and not some text-to-speech engine. Why people will pay to subscribe to Audible rather than Kindle's text-to-speech. Producing engaging audio-video is hard and requires some talent. I know many of the editors here are barely literate and wouldn't know how to write an engaging article if paid to do so (inserting random factoids and playing whack-a-mole with alt-med folk seems to be more of the game here) but at least I have the ability to skim over your tediously dull writing and still draw out some useful information. Auto-video is a linear game with no skim option -- if you bore me I click away and will not get to hear your concluding words.
The "Hand writes on a whiteboard" style is not what is currently possible by editors here. I assume there is some proprietary commercial software that makes generating these easy (in combination with a talented graphic design artist). I think it is false to post that as an example of what can be done. It is also an academic style, as someone notes above, designed to help students memorise key facts for an exam. It is also inherently one-language. The other kind is a series of PowerPoint slides with transitions. A PowerPoint slide presentation is not going to get a million hits on YouTube or keep the attention of Millenials.
Above it claims that licence and attribution is automatically included in the video. I did not see that in the two I watched. Also I can see no way of locating earlier versions and seeing a history. How does one watchlist a video or its segments and manage edits? How is vandalism to be handled?
I don't think you appreciate the reliance on Commons is a problem. Commons is not Wikipedia. The Commons policy on overwriting files is that it is generally not allowed except for the most incontestable edit/improvement. Any edit that might be controversial must be uploaded as a different filename. Commons admins will not step in and resolve your edit wars. Nor will Wikipedia admins be welcome to come over to Commons to resolve your edit wars. Commons is designed as a repository for finished works, not a graveyard for old versions of clips. I'm not clear how you plan to handle attribution if a video clip is altered to replace one work with another: on Commons, the file description page and the media itself have independent histories.
There are many more issues. But I continue to be perplexed that this is falsely promoted with a professionally made video and which has been inserted into Acute visual loss despite overwhelming Community opposition to adding such videos into articles. I would strongly encourage Doc James to remove the video and others like it from Wikipedia articles. You can demonstrate examples using a project page. In the past Doc James engaged in mass edits silently pushing hundreds of videos, edit warring with other editors to keep them, and bullying subject experts on Wikipedia and on Commons, so he should really consider himself de facto topic banned from repeating this. Why is this being pushed at WP:MED? This is a matter for the whole Wiki community. Discussion belongs in a wider forum, with an example video created 100% by regular Wikipedian editors rather than some third-party doctor-training outfit. Go push the United Kingdom video instead.
I think before this goes any further, you need to demonstrate that such videos really can be edited by anyone, can be easily monitored for changes/vandalism, don't spark fiery edit wars, and trivially handle the legal requirements for attribution, history and licencing. And you really need to demonstrate they add value. Text-to-speech + PowerPoint is not adding value. You need to think about what sorts of articles this would work for. I really really don't think Rotavirus is improved by someone creating a summary, generating audio via text-to-speech, and producing a PowerPoint of various virus microscope pictures that are already in the article. I think, to be honest, this is just introducing all sorts of community and cross-project problems that add no value.
You will have to get Commons involvement too, and I really don't think they will be happy about it. Commons is not a "collaborative editing project", just a repository. Bring your "collaborative editing" issues to Commons and they will quickly tell you where you can stick them.
WP:NOTYOUTUBE Wikipedia already welcomes short videos that enhance, rather than replace or summarise articles. There is no community consensus that this approach is workable, appropriate or enhances Wikipedia.
People have always been happy to read illustrated articles. These days, our articles can also be illustrated with short video clips. Compared to other information sites, Wikipedia is text heavy and has no good way to format text and graphics in a way approaching desktop publishing standards. I'd rather Wikipedia moved towards a more professional presentation format like the best websites. There are AFAIK no websites that take their content, and provide a summary of that content read by a text-to-speech engine combined with lame PowerPoints. Our strengths are in collaboratively writing text and sourcing (and making) engaging illustrations. A WikiYouTube is a separate project and should stay separate. -- Colin° Talk 13:59, 28 February 2019 (UTC)
While this is an interesting effort to ameliorate one of the problems listed at WP:NOTYOUTUBE, it doesn't solve the fundamentals. I'm not sure whether Bluerasberry is "supporting" the use of this "not technologically mature" project on WP right now, or just supporting the direction for some purpose on WikiMedia projects. The most basic problem is that creating engaging audiovideo is hard work and requires talent, both of which are currently lacking at WP:MED/Wikipedia. Folk here know how to read a review, take some facts and crudely rewrite them to avoid plagiarism, and insert them into medical articles. A very few know how to write an interesting article that someone might want to read from start to finish. I know of nobody on WP:MED who is a talented educational video producer. That talent could arise perhaps, but so far it is lacking.
Creating video is really, really hard. This effort does not aid that. We've been falsely shown a professionally created video, but in fact the user examples are more like powerpoint slides. Recording engaging audio is also hard and also largely impossible to collaborate on since we all have different voices. This project does away with the problem of recording audio but instead replaces it with a robot voice. Ok, every editor sounds the same, but they all now sound awful.
Let's compare The medskl video with the VideoWiki version.
In the original video the narrator says "The eye pressure will be very high -- in the 40s, 50s, or even 60 millimetres of mercury." It shows a graphic of "55mmHG". The videowiki video says "The eye pressure will be very high typically greater than 40 mmHg" with the same graphic. Let's say as editors we think the range of values was better but actually, as a hypothetical but typical example of fixes we may make, we want to use millibars rather than mmHg. So the graphic should show 73mb and the narration say "in the 50s, 60s or even as high as 80 millibars". On Wikipedia, I just click edit, type my new text over the old text and press Publish changes. On VideoWiki, well I have a problem. I don't have access to the computer animation software that generated that video. Also, it's a webm file, which is also not the software that most video packages use (because we insist on patent free formats rather than mp4 or webp). The original video is webp. So I'm pretty stuck changing the graphic text. And if I change the audio, well that's re-created nicely (if roboticly) but now the video segment isn't long enough to sync with the narration. Oh, how do I slow down that bit of the graphics?
Now as a viewer of this video I read about the eye pressure and want to verify that the values are reliably sourced. On Wikipedia I can click on the little [5] and then follow the link to the source article. Two clicks. On the video, well I see a list of references at the end, but I can't interact with them so they aren't much use.
Now let's say I produce a short video on the ketogenic diet. I go away on my summer holidays and come back to see someone has made lots of edits. One person has reordered the flow ["per MED:MEDVIDMOS"]. Another has inserted some promotional images about weight loss books ["added useful info"]. Another has fixed a mistake where "fat" and "calories" were swapped on screen ["fixed mistake"]. Another has introduced video pauses at the end of each section rather than at the beginning ["per VIDMOS"]. How do I compare the videos to see what changes were made? On Wikipedia I can select the article before I went on holiday and the article after I came back and view the diffs. For video, I can't. I have to sit through all 2 minutes of it, taking notes. I fail to discover that the reordering lost one sentence. I try to revert the re-ordering and the book promotion but keep the mistake-fix but find I have to then redo the pause front/back change myself again. By the time I have done this, I get an edit conflict because someone has added another slide in the middle about testing with "ketostiks". At this point, I lose the will to live and just want to delete this POS from Wikipedia and Commons. I find the admins on Commons won't let me remove it, despite the promotional book advertising, despite the terrible flow, and despite ketostix being spelt wrongly, because it has potential educational use (someone could extract the good frames, I suppose) and because it is "in-use" on WP:MED's talk page.
This project needs to be discussed with both Wiki and Commons users, and not just among the folk here who are openly hostile to any criticism and appear to want medical content to be written by external educators that than "anyone". I fear that Doc James is going to dump a bunch of medskl videos with robo narration onto medical articles, and claim that "anyone can edit them". They still can't. -- Colin° Talk 16:58, 1 March 2019 (UTC)
The doodle video above is created by professional software. There are various kinds such as Animaker, Renderforest, Doodly, and VideoScribe. They vary in cost (more are subscription) and with higher cost you get more style options, more clip art, more royalty-free music. It is the clip art that really adds value as otherwise you'll have to pay for an artist. But even then, there are bound to be things you just have to draw yourself. All this is done in a propriety format file designed to be used on a single PC or Mac. They aren't collaborative tools. They aren't free. The media isn't freely licensed. Oh.... let's consider that a second. Take RenderForest terms.
Other licence terms on these products may demand giving a total usage licence for your video to the product developer. Typically the third-party media these tools contain is only licensed for use within videos created by the tools. Thus the resulting video cannot be given a free licence as we know it on Wikipedia. User:Doc James have osmosis and medskl confirmed that the clip art they use is created by them alone and does not build upon third-party "royalty-free" clip art supplied with their software? If not, they may all need to be deleted. Do you know what software was used for these videos?
If doodle videos are considered acceptable (and they are becoming a little old already) then this project first needs to develop an online doodle-video editing platform. And encourage users to supply clip art in a format suitable for being "drawn". Without that, the claim that we can edit these videos just like wiki is false. Wiki means quick. -- Colin° Talk 17:58, 1 March 2019 (UTC)
As an experiment, I asked Google Assistant, Bixby and Alexa "What is the ketogenic diet". All three replied "According to Wikipedia..." and then read out the first two or three sentences of the lead. Alexa displayed the lead image of the article as a background. This 10s or so of robot speech is really as much as most people will put up with. It provides just enough information that users will get the idea of what it is. The user can then follow search results and links on their phone or computer to learn more details. Or ask their assistant another question. This AI approach is the future. We have enough headache keeping existing Wikipedia articles accurate and free of vandalism and promotion and bad info, without having a deliberate fork where two articles and multiple video/image files must be monitored for such. The beauty of having someone else do this work, and automate it, is that we only have to ensure our first few lead sentences are great, and the world has access to brief information about almost any topic. For free.
The wikivideo examples I've watched are more like when you ask that awkward uncle a question, and he goes on and on at length and great detail despite your eyes glazing over and the desperate "rescue me" signals you are giving off to everyone else. I see the VideoWiki default is to turn whole articles into videos. These article-videos must go on for hours. Lord give me strength. -- Colin° Talk 20:58, 1 March 2019 (UTC)
Doc James and Pratik.pks, when readers say they want more video, they mean they want additional information in video form: for example, in Bergen-Belsen, a video of its liberation. They're unlikely to listen to a Wikipedia article read out by a bot-generated voice. There are similar videos on YouTube where text-to-speech bots read out news items, so you think you're clicking on a video about X but really it's a bot telling you that videos about X exist. Is there a plan to include advertising? Pratik, you mentioned advertising in July 2017 in your Medium article, in response to the question "How will VideoWiki's integrity be maintained?":
At VideoWiki, you can never edit the text of an article. It is automatically fetched and updated from Wikipedia. This system allows us to maintain our integrity as we have no control over the narrative of any article.
For Eg: If Amazon Inc becomes the largest company to advertise on VideoWiki, and they want the “Amazon” article to be a little more favorable towards them — We cannot collude with them, since we do not control what text can be written about an article.
SarahSV (talk) 21:31, 1 March 2019 (UTC)
Colin Don't link to
WP:NOTYOUTUBE pretending it is consensus.
You wrote that essay – It is an extreme interpretation i.e. your minority opinion.
Carl Fredrik
talk 17:22, 3 March 2019 (UTC)
"The RFC represents an overwhelming consensus against such videos."
I think this tool may have utility but it would be very limited because it is a way to create poor, robotized adaptations of Wikipedia articles. Adapting one media to another and doing it well usually takes careful effort. For example: usually for a novel to be adapted to a film, the script isn't just the same words in the novel with the cast's names added over the lines they deliver. The writer decides what portions of the novel may need to be cut, changed, moved et cetera because the audience is quite different - you expect that a film will be 90 minutes, that you will watch it all the way through, possibly with other people around you and bu contrast with a novel you read it on your own, and can put a bookmark in it when you want a break. Most novels take several hours to read, and films are usually done in under two hours. There are many differences between these two media. I make this comparison because the audience for the videos that DocJames proposes will likely be getting unneeded layers of information in a style that may be confusing or overwhelming -- This tool involves creating ways to translate the text content of Wikipedia into a video, not supplying appropriate video content that can better inform the reader of the text they are already reading, like the photography used in Wikipedia already does. When I read: "The easy creation of videos from scripts from Wikipedia and images / short videos from Commons" I think this is WAY, WAY too broad. Just because it's easy to make does not make it easy to watch or listen to. It also doesn't make it useful. I could use this tool to easily make a video about the US Civil War, it doesn't make it like the Ken Burns documentary. My point is that it's not enough to have a primitive tool that can actually generate a derivative adaptation. You need a philosophy behind that tool. We could use the 5 pillars and all the editorial philosophy that’s already there for text and imagery but apply it to video, and use that philosophy to develop the needed tools. Every type of article (biographies, locations, history, etc) could have it’s own slightly different editorial philosophy developed. For example, I took a look for a film that might help illustrate what I think and here is one that kind of does it:
The film above is a professionally-produced educational film about educational films, how they are designed and how to choose them for a classroom. It's an advertisement too, because they had films to sell, but it illustrates pretty well how there is careful thinking behind how a topic is adapted for a screen. Wikipedians are in the same field of work. We pick and choose how an educational topic is to be covered. Illustrative, educational videos or audio could in theory be embedded in every appropriate Wikipedia article (and paragraph of each article) to better augment the text that our users read. This is not so in most cases. The reasons are complicated -- the process of converting and uploading video and audio to Wikimedia Commons is non-intuitive, complicated and ordinary video formats are usually proprietary. Despite the cumbersome processes to get video onto Wikimedia projects, many Wikimedians are adding video to Commons. Partly because of the formatting and conversion issues, there are unfortunately no easy ways to trim sections out of videos or to cut copyrighted sections, giving the average Wikipedia reader sometimes inappropriate video content (too long, includes corporate or government logos, et cetera), or Wikipedians deciding not to use the video in the article because it’s inappropriate. Wikipedians would be great at flagging and removing bits and pieces of copyrighted material from videos.
There is no way to edit video for Wikimedia online (collaboratively or otherwise). Users have to download a video to their own machines, convert everything themselves, edit on their own machine, re-convert and then upload themselves. If another user takes exception to the video, they cannot tweak the video, they can only remove it.
I would much prefer to have basic trim features for video and audio. I will say that the aspect of this tool that is INCREDIBLE is the credits generation:
This should be a tool on it's own, because it could save an enormous amount of work for anyone using Wikimedia Commons content to make a video on their own machine or collaboratively at some point in the future. The uses are obvious!
So to sum up my thoughts: This is a poorly-planned, well-intended tool with some useful aspects that should be forked into their own tool or another better-planned tool.
(One note, if it means anything: I have been a video producer for the Wikimedia Foundation for several years and am currently an independent video producer who still contracts with the WMF occasionally, because of this I have spent much time thinking about how video can be used for/with/within Wikimedia.)
Victor Grigas ( talk) 07:07, 6 March 2019 (UTC)
We have seen before, with Osmosis, an attempt to insert videos into Wikipedia that are simply modified medical-student teaching videos. Above is a similar example from MEDSKL, which is also used to teach medical students, and where the company intends to take a fee for students to be tested on the material. Doc James has neither confirmed nor denied any intention to add further MEDSKL videos to Wikipedia articles. It would be useful if he explained the collaboration with MEDSKL and its intentions.
WP:MEDMOS has always warned about "Writing for the wrong audience". This is particularly a danger for our professional medical editors, but also for anyone reading medical literature designed for professionals, and then translating that into an article for the general reader. In the book "The Gene: An Intimate History", the author notes that for a long time, medical researchers would label genes according to the disease that was caused when it was faulty. So we have BRCA1 (Breast cancer type 1 susceptibility protein), CFTR (Cystic fibrosis transmembrane conductance regulator), TSC2 (Tuberous Sclerosis Complex 2), etc. But this is a backward way of thinking about our genes, which do useful things like repair damage or control cell growth. It is like saying that the liver is the thing that gets cirrhosis, the heart is the thing that gets heart attacks and the brain the thing that makes us forget things. So, your point of view is very important when writing an encyclopaedic article for the general reader. The classroom video above explains a similar idea.
The point of view of a medic is where they are presented by a patient who is unwell and wants a diagnosis and treatment. The point of view of the person with symptoms is to discover possible causes themselves, to know when they should see an expert, to know what things to test/try at home, to have reassurance that it is ok or that urgent treatment is needed, etc, etc. There's a whole lot that happens before that person reaches the doc. And the point of view of the general reader is just to learn interesting stuff in a hyperlinked encyclopaedia. They may have been reading a biography, then glaucoma, then acute visual loss, then slit lamp, and so on. They likely want to flit from one topic to another and only read in depth the parts that fascinate them. The general reader will want to know about normal eye pressure or how the retina normally works: the human body is not just a collection of diseased parts.
The Acute visual loss article was created based on the MEDSKL video, which it now contains. The text assumes the reader is a medic presented with a patient who has acute visual loss. It gives examples of four possible conditions and explains why each "should be considered if". The choice of these four conditions appears to be quite arbitrary. Other articles on the subject give more ( MSD Manuals, Medscape and FP Notebook). One suspects the presentation of these four was based round a number of new facts that a student might easily remember (similar to the "three point sermon" idea for preachers), and can later be tested on: "Name one common cause of acute visual loss". All four are just listed and very briefly described in isolation, like a short listicle. Instead, a more comprehensive approach (taken by the above linked articles) would be to distinguish conditions by "Is there pain or not?" and "Does it affect one eye or both?" and "Is it transient or persistent?" and "What predisposing factors might the person have?" If one were to read the literature on the topic before writing the article, one might create quite a different article with perhaps a dozen possible causes of acute visual loss and a clear structure round the presentation of the various kinds.
We aren't here to teach students facts that they will later be examined on. We're here to write fascinating articles on lots of interesting subjects, and for each article to participate in being only part of the experience of using a hyperlinked encyclopaedia. We might hold the reader's attention for seconds or for half an hour. They may read bits of the lead and one body section. Unlike a real classroom, we can't insist on their attention for minutes of linear information presentation, and there are no penalties if they click away to something else.
I don't think it is appropriate to take material designed for teaching, and designed for a specific tiny subset of subject specialists, and prominently offer that as though it is a summary of the article topic. If the material meets our WP:EL policy, then of course we can link to it off-wiki. The material may be useful in a different wiki project outside of Wikipedia. If, at some point in the future, the wider Wikipedia community, thinks having article-summary videos is a good thing, they should be collaboratively created and maintained by Wikipedians for the general reader. -- Colin° Talk 12:08, 7 March 2019 (UTC)
I noticed a suggested edit at Talk:Measles vaccine#Early Vaccination that could use some input. Thanks! JenOttawa ( talk) 14:33, 11 March 2019 (UTC)
Should trichology be added to WikiProject Medicine as suggested by Wikipedia? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Susan Ringsell ( talk • contribs) 12:01, 19 March 2019 (UTC)
Hi all, would anyone be able to direct me on how to add citations to an infobox? I'm looking to do so for the L1 syndrome page. I don't see the "cite" button -- I am new to Wikipedia so any help would be greatly appreciated. Shaquille Oatmeal ( talk) 03:30, 20 March 2019 (UTC)
Is this a list worth keeping? Natureium ( talk) 15:10, 20 March 2019 (UTC)
Can someone with medical expertise please review the new article MitoQ? The article creator says one their user page that they are paid by MitoQ Limited for their contributions to Wikipedia. It looks like mostly product promotion to me. Deli nk ( talk) 13:29, 22 March 2019 (UTC)
I'm concerned about the recent edits that Science person guy 1 ( talk · contribs · count) made to the Salicylate sensitivity article. I reverted the first two edits ( Special:Diff/888495585, Special:Diff/888496045), because they removed content sourced to academic journals while citing The Samter's Society, which is not WP:MEDRS-compliant. The third edit ( Special:Diff/888496642) cited an editorial published in The Journal of Allergy and Clinical Immunology while removing the same content as the first two edits.
If you are familiar with the subject matter, can you please offer your opinion on whether these edits are appropriate? Thanks for your help. — Newslinger talk 15:46, 19 March 2019 (UTC)
Just to be clear aspirin desensitization is NOT for salicylate allergy! Listing it as a treatment is mischaracterizing its actual use for NSAID allergy. Additionally - aspirin desensitization (or other NSAIDs for that matter - ketorolac + lysine aspirin) is almost always a 1-2 day procedure, performed in an outpatient setting. The amount of research that is publically available is staggering - 6 day procedures virtually don't exist anymore. It is not indicated for salicylate allergy which is hardly recognized in actual circles of allergists as it not quantifiable and not mediated through the immune system! Please STOP listing this as a treatment. thanks - Science person guy 1 — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
Science person guy 1 (
talk •
contribs) 19:04, 20 March 2019 (UTC)
Hi, just an FYI, currently an event is occurring at Imperial Medical College improving the articles Covert medication and Right ventricular hypertrophy, supervised by lecturers at the university IC ssaleh, Dr sunflowers, two librarians ( Librarianrebecca and Hammersfan) and Battleofalma. Battleofalma ( talk) 11:51, 23 March 2019 (UTC)
Note: For those interested. (For reasons of transparency, please comment there. Thanks in advance.)-- Hildeoc ( talk) 16:51, 23 March 2019 (UTC)
Note: For those interested. (For reasons of transparency, please comment there. Thanks in advance.)-- Hildeoc ( talk) 17:31, 23 March 2019 (UTC
more opinions please--
Ozzie10aaaa (
talk) 11:49, 26 March 2019 (UTC)
If anyone is interested in taking a look, there's stuff about pills against radiation etc. Gråbergs Gråa Sång ( talk) 17:24, 21 March 2019 (UTC)
A page on Rapid Onset Gender Dysphoria has been created and it would seem to contradict our guidelines. Although it claims to describe a new syndrome, there are no sources that fit Wikipedia:MEDRS guideline such as clinical studies let alone reviews. The only journal that is cited, PLOSone recently published a correction [12] noting the lack of any direct clinical data to substantiate the condition. I don't think it's a good look for WP to publish medical sounding articles with inadequate references. Freepsbane ( talk) 21:39, 19 March 2019 (UTC)
Have it your way, but if someone claims there are generally accepted facts but produces no evidence, then what should we think? I’m not badgering I’m lobbying that we use the accepted guidelines. If people don’t like an under sourced article being critiqued then the solution is very simple: improve the sources and not only does critique become imposssible but the article quality is improved dramatically. We can’t have terribly sourced articles that claim to be medical giving medical advice without so much as a single supporting study. Freepsbane ( talk) 20:31, 20 March 2019 (UTC)
( talk) 02:10, 21 March 2019 (UTC)
Again you cite a non-scholarly secondary source, the correction published in PLOS explicitly states "The post-publication review identified issues that needed to be addressed to ensure the article meets PLOS ONE’s publication criteria. Given the nature of the issues in this case, the PLOS ONE Editors decided to republish the article, replacing the original version of record with a revised version in which the author has updated the Title, Abstract, Introduction, Discussion, and Conclusion sections, to address the concerns raised in the editorial reassessment" polling data from a descriptive study is the least important aspect, PLOS determined the interpretation, the Discussion and Conclusions were not publication quality and forced a complete rewrite. Rejecting the interpretation of data and conclusion, the most important aspects of a descriptive study does not an endorsement make. This is why we must strive to cite the journals themselves, not lay sites that might misinterpret and play a game of telephone. Freepsbane ( talk) 02:07, 21 March 2019 (UTC)
You also made a mistake in describing my criticism as uninformed and politically motivated from a layman. I'm a biomedical researcher, I have publications. I know how to read journals and if as plosone says they forced a total rewrite of Conclusions and Discussion that is far from an endorsement, usually only major concerns that would otherwise lead to a rejection of the paper force an extensive rewrite of multiple sections like, Introduction, Discussion, and Conclusion. And I am not engaging in original research, I am going by both the letter of correction which said there were many problems to correct to make of publication quality, and the editor's word [15] on this matter. Also I have zero expertise regarding Questioning (sexuality and gender) so editing that would not be constructive. But I do know how to read papers, how their publishing works, and I can take the time to read the letter of correction and the editor's statement and my citing them helps. Better to quote the scholarly source than lay sites that might misinterpret. Freepsbane ( talk) 02:12, 21 March 2019 (UTC)
Also I’m not saying the journalists at the chronicle site have agendas, they just don’t have the training to read papers. So when they heard that the “results” section (which is just mater of factly stated poll responses which only could have changed had the polling been redone) was unchanged they mistook it for the paper being the same. When in fact the abstract intro, discussion and conclusions were according to the letter of corrections extensively rewritten (about as dramatic a change reviewers can ever force) and ergo the data interpretation changed. If they don’t know how papers are organized they could have missed. It is not their fault, it is just an illustration of why we must cite journals over popular culture whenever possible. Freepsbane ( talk) 21:51, 21 March 2019 (UTC)
And yes I did check: Mr. Bartlett of the chronicle is not a trained scientist, he has zero scholarly publications or experience as a reviewer so he was out of his element in trying to interpret the letter; a professor for that matter would understand how serious extensive rewrites to make the paper publication quality are. Bartlett was trying to interpret the letter so better we cite and quote the letter itself. I’m certain Bartlett is expert on pop culture reporting but this shows why we must cite the journals themselves. Freepsbane ( talk) 22:08, 21 March 2019 (UTC)
Some expert eyes are needed at Technetium (99mTc) sestamibi (a pharmaceutical agent used in nuclear medicine imaging). For background, see this discussion at the Conflict of Interest Noticeboard. Voceditenore ( talk) 16:44, 27 March 2019 (UTC)
How we conclude its a pseudoscience. We not have any instruments yet to discover its function of dilution. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2409:4072:610F:F61:E927:528D:348B:1EA7 ( talk) 04:16, 27 March 2019 (UTC)
I've started a new page on Alveolar cleft grafting (one of the surgeries for the treatment of cleft lip and palate). I'll be expanding and adding more citations tomorrow. Could someone take a quick peak to make sure i've structed it inline with WP:MEDMOS and add it onto our watched articles list? Ian Furst ( talk) 00:03, 23 March 2019 (UTC)
This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 115 | ← | Archive 120 | Archive 121 | Archive 122 | Archive 123 | Archive 124 | Archive 125 |
A magazine called Forefront is listed on Quackwatch. A magazine named Forefront is cited on Endoxifen. Is is the same? Because the one cited is published by the Mayo Clinic, which doesn't strike me as a quack organization. Headbomb { t · c · p · b} 18:33, 14 March 2019 (UTC)
I have opened discussion as to whether a medical school Dean of a major academic institution should be considered notable, here.-- 2604:2000:E010:1100:8069:D17F:7325:3D9 ( talk) 03:50, 16 March 2019 (UTC)
Could someone look at the GA tick and see whether the NPR reference supporting red meat allergy associated with tick bites is adequate? I don't think it is, and removed the material accordingly, but was just reverted. Thanks, Espresso Addict ( talk) 21:32, 14 March 2019 (UTC)
We have a new project called Video Wiki which allows:
References
Doc James ( talk · contribs · email) 05:24, 27 February 2019 (UTC)
Could you please point us to instructions on how to update the video narrative and the visuals that are in the video? The script is editable, but changing the script does not seem to automatically update the video. Clayoquot ( talk | contribs) 22:48, 27 February 2019 (UTC)
While this is an interesting project, it is a long, very long, way from being suitable for incorporation into Wikipedia articles (even assuming the community wants such videos, which is currently a no). I see the Medium article opens with "Imagine seeing Usain Bolt’s world-record breaking 100 meters race rather than just reading about it. Imagine watching the beautiful Aurora lights while learning about them." The Aurora article already has four videos so I don't have to imagine. And the race video is hindered by valuable broadcasting rights by the organisations, but even assuming you got a volunteer to record the race and they were legally allowed to release the video, incorporating the race video into the article is trivial and does not require this technology. What instead we have got is
I looked at the Kerela and United Kingdom videos. Nearly lost the will to live. There is a reason why we like to listen to David Attenborough tell us about Galapagos tortoise mating rituals, and not some text-to-speech engine. Why people will pay to subscribe to Audible rather than Kindle's text-to-speech. Producing engaging audio-video is hard and requires some talent. I know many of the editors here are barely literate and wouldn't know how to write an engaging article if paid to do so (inserting random factoids and playing whack-a-mole with alt-med folk seems to be more of the game here) but at least I have the ability to skim over your tediously dull writing and still draw out some useful information. Auto-video is a linear game with no skim option -- if you bore me I click away and will not get to hear your concluding words.
The "Hand writes on a whiteboard" style is not what is currently possible by editors here. I assume there is some proprietary commercial software that makes generating these easy (in combination with a talented graphic design artist). I think it is false to post that as an example of what can be done. It is also an academic style, as someone notes above, designed to help students memorise key facts for an exam. It is also inherently one-language. The other kind is a series of PowerPoint slides with transitions. A PowerPoint slide presentation is not going to get a million hits on YouTube or keep the attention of Millenials.
Above it claims that licence and attribution is automatically included in the video. I did not see that in the two I watched. Also I can see no way of locating earlier versions and seeing a history. How does one watchlist a video or its segments and manage edits? How is vandalism to be handled?
I don't think you appreciate the reliance on Commons is a problem. Commons is not Wikipedia. The Commons policy on overwriting files is that it is generally not allowed except for the most incontestable edit/improvement. Any edit that might be controversial must be uploaded as a different filename. Commons admins will not step in and resolve your edit wars. Nor will Wikipedia admins be welcome to come over to Commons to resolve your edit wars. Commons is designed as a repository for finished works, not a graveyard for old versions of clips. I'm not clear how you plan to handle attribution if a video clip is altered to replace one work with another: on Commons, the file description page and the media itself have independent histories.
There are many more issues. But I continue to be perplexed that this is falsely promoted with a professionally made video and which has been inserted into Acute visual loss despite overwhelming Community opposition to adding such videos into articles. I would strongly encourage Doc James to remove the video and others like it from Wikipedia articles. You can demonstrate examples using a project page. In the past Doc James engaged in mass edits silently pushing hundreds of videos, edit warring with other editors to keep them, and bullying subject experts on Wikipedia and on Commons, so he should really consider himself de facto topic banned from repeating this. Why is this being pushed at WP:MED? This is a matter for the whole Wiki community. Discussion belongs in a wider forum, with an example video created 100% by regular Wikipedian editors rather than some third-party doctor-training outfit. Go push the United Kingdom video instead.
I think before this goes any further, you need to demonstrate that such videos really can be edited by anyone, can be easily monitored for changes/vandalism, don't spark fiery edit wars, and trivially handle the legal requirements for attribution, history and licencing. And you really need to demonstrate they add value. Text-to-speech + PowerPoint is not adding value. You need to think about what sorts of articles this would work for. I really really don't think Rotavirus is improved by someone creating a summary, generating audio via text-to-speech, and producing a PowerPoint of various virus microscope pictures that are already in the article. I think, to be honest, this is just introducing all sorts of community and cross-project problems that add no value.
You will have to get Commons involvement too, and I really don't think they will be happy about it. Commons is not a "collaborative editing project", just a repository. Bring your "collaborative editing" issues to Commons and they will quickly tell you where you can stick them.
WP:NOTYOUTUBE Wikipedia already welcomes short videos that enhance, rather than replace or summarise articles. There is no community consensus that this approach is workable, appropriate or enhances Wikipedia.
People have always been happy to read illustrated articles. These days, our articles can also be illustrated with short video clips. Compared to other information sites, Wikipedia is text heavy and has no good way to format text and graphics in a way approaching desktop publishing standards. I'd rather Wikipedia moved towards a more professional presentation format like the best websites. There are AFAIK no websites that take their content, and provide a summary of that content read by a text-to-speech engine combined with lame PowerPoints. Our strengths are in collaboratively writing text and sourcing (and making) engaging illustrations. A WikiYouTube is a separate project and should stay separate. -- Colin° Talk 13:59, 28 February 2019 (UTC)
While this is an interesting effort to ameliorate one of the problems listed at WP:NOTYOUTUBE, it doesn't solve the fundamentals. I'm not sure whether Bluerasberry is "supporting" the use of this "not technologically mature" project on WP right now, or just supporting the direction for some purpose on WikiMedia projects. The most basic problem is that creating engaging audiovideo is hard work and requires talent, both of which are currently lacking at WP:MED/Wikipedia. Folk here know how to read a review, take some facts and crudely rewrite them to avoid plagiarism, and insert them into medical articles. A very few know how to write an interesting article that someone might want to read from start to finish. I know of nobody on WP:MED who is a talented educational video producer. That talent could arise perhaps, but so far it is lacking.
Creating video is really, really hard. This effort does not aid that. We've been falsely shown a professionally created video, but in fact the user examples are more like powerpoint slides. Recording engaging audio is also hard and also largely impossible to collaborate on since we all have different voices. This project does away with the problem of recording audio but instead replaces it with a robot voice. Ok, every editor sounds the same, but they all now sound awful.
Let's compare The medskl video with the VideoWiki version.
In the original video the narrator says "The eye pressure will be very high -- in the 40s, 50s, or even 60 millimetres of mercury." It shows a graphic of "55mmHG". The videowiki video says "The eye pressure will be very high typically greater than 40 mmHg" with the same graphic. Let's say as editors we think the range of values was better but actually, as a hypothetical but typical example of fixes we may make, we want to use millibars rather than mmHg. So the graphic should show 73mb and the narration say "in the 50s, 60s or even as high as 80 millibars". On Wikipedia, I just click edit, type my new text over the old text and press Publish changes. On VideoWiki, well I have a problem. I don't have access to the computer animation software that generated that video. Also, it's a webm file, which is also not the software that most video packages use (because we insist on patent free formats rather than mp4 or webp). The original video is webp. So I'm pretty stuck changing the graphic text. And if I change the audio, well that's re-created nicely (if roboticly) but now the video segment isn't long enough to sync with the narration. Oh, how do I slow down that bit of the graphics?
Now as a viewer of this video I read about the eye pressure and want to verify that the values are reliably sourced. On Wikipedia I can click on the little [5] and then follow the link to the source article. Two clicks. On the video, well I see a list of references at the end, but I can't interact with them so they aren't much use.
Now let's say I produce a short video on the ketogenic diet. I go away on my summer holidays and come back to see someone has made lots of edits. One person has reordered the flow ["per MED:MEDVIDMOS"]. Another has inserted some promotional images about weight loss books ["added useful info"]. Another has fixed a mistake where "fat" and "calories" were swapped on screen ["fixed mistake"]. Another has introduced video pauses at the end of each section rather than at the beginning ["per VIDMOS"]. How do I compare the videos to see what changes were made? On Wikipedia I can select the article before I went on holiday and the article after I came back and view the diffs. For video, I can't. I have to sit through all 2 minutes of it, taking notes. I fail to discover that the reordering lost one sentence. I try to revert the re-ordering and the book promotion but keep the mistake-fix but find I have to then redo the pause front/back change myself again. By the time I have done this, I get an edit conflict because someone has added another slide in the middle about testing with "ketostiks". At this point, I lose the will to live and just want to delete this POS from Wikipedia and Commons. I find the admins on Commons won't let me remove it, despite the promotional book advertising, despite the terrible flow, and despite ketostix being spelt wrongly, because it has potential educational use (someone could extract the good frames, I suppose) and because it is "in-use" on WP:MED's talk page.
This project needs to be discussed with both Wiki and Commons users, and not just among the folk here who are openly hostile to any criticism and appear to want medical content to be written by external educators that than "anyone". I fear that Doc James is going to dump a bunch of medskl videos with robo narration onto medical articles, and claim that "anyone can edit them". They still can't. -- Colin° Talk 16:58, 1 March 2019 (UTC)
The doodle video above is created by professional software. There are various kinds such as Animaker, Renderforest, Doodly, and VideoScribe. They vary in cost (more are subscription) and with higher cost you get more style options, more clip art, more royalty-free music. It is the clip art that really adds value as otherwise you'll have to pay for an artist. But even then, there are bound to be things you just have to draw yourself. All this is done in a propriety format file designed to be used on a single PC or Mac. They aren't collaborative tools. They aren't free. The media isn't freely licensed. Oh.... let's consider that a second. Take RenderForest terms.
Other licence terms on these products may demand giving a total usage licence for your video to the product developer. Typically the third-party media these tools contain is only licensed for use within videos created by the tools. Thus the resulting video cannot be given a free licence as we know it on Wikipedia. User:Doc James have osmosis and medskl confirmed that the clip art they use is created by them alone and does not build upon third-party "royalty-free" clip art supplied with their software? If not, they may all need to be deleted. Do you know what software was used for these videos?
If doodle videos are considered acceptable (and they are becoming a little old already) then this project first needs to develop an online doodle-video editing platform. And encourage users to supply clip art in a format suitable for being "drawn". Without that, the claim that we can edit these videos just like wiki is false. Wiki means quick. -- Colin° Talk 17:58, 1 March 2019 (UTC)
As an experiment, I asked Google Assistant, Bixby and Alexa "What is the ketogenic diet". All three replied "According to Wikipedia..." and then read out the first two or three sentences of the lead. Alexa displayed the lead image of the article as a background. This 10s or so of robot speech is really as much as most people will put up with. It provides just enough information that users will get the idea of what it is. The user can then follow search results and links on their phone or computer to learn more details. Or ask their assistant another question. This AI approach is the future. We have enough headache keeping existing Wikipedia articles accurate and free of vandalism and promotion and bad info, without having a deliberate fork where two articles and multiple video/image files must be monitored for such. The beauty of having someone else do this work, and automate it, is that we only have to ensure our first few lead sentences are great, and the world has access to brief information about almost any topic. For free.
The wikivideo examples I've watched are more like when you ask that awkward uncle a question, and he goes on and on at length and great detail despite your eyes glazing over and the desperate "rescue me" signals you are giving off to everyone else. I see the VideoWiki default is to turn whole articles into videos. These article-videos must go on for hours. Lord give me strength. -- Colin° Talk 20:58, 1 March 2019 (UTC)
Doc James and Pratik.pks, when readers say they want more video, they mean they want additional information in video form: for example, in Bergen-Belsen, a video of its liberation. They're unlikely to listen to a Wikipedia article read out by a bot-generated voice. There are similar videos on YouTube where text-to-speech bots read out news items, so you think you're clicking on a video about X but really it's a bot telling you that videos about X exist. Is there a plan to include advertising? Pratik, you mentioned advertising in July 2017 in your Medium article, in response to the question "How will VideoWiki's integrity be maintained?":
At VideoWiki, you can never edit the text of an article. It is automatically fetched and updated from Wikipedia. This system allows us to maintain our integrity as we have no control over the narrative of any article.
For Eg: If Amazon Inc becomes the largest company to advertise on VideoWiki, and they want the “Amazon” article to be a little more favorable towards them — We cannot collude with them, since we do not control what text can be written about an article.
SarahSV (talk) 21:31, 1 March 2019 (UTC)
Colin Don't link to
WP:NOTYOUTUBE pretending it is consensus.
You wrote that essay – It is an extreme interpretation i.e. your minority opinion.
Carl Fredrik
talk 17:22, 3 March 2019 (UTC)
"The RFC represents an overwhelming consensus against such videos."
I think this tool may have utility but it would be very limited because it is a way to create poor, robotized adaptations of Wikipedia articles. Adapting one media to another and doing it well usually takes careful effort. For example: usually for a novel to be adapted to a film, the script isn't just the same words in the novel with the cast's names added over the lines they deliver. The writer decides what portions of the novel may need to be cut, changed, moved et cetera because the audience is quite different - you expect that a film will be 90 minutes, that you will watch it all the way through, possibly with other people around you and bu contrast with a novel you read it on your own, and can put a bookmark in it when you want a break. Most novels take several hours to read, and films are usually done in under two hours. There are many differences between these two media. I make this comparison because the audience for the videos that DocJames proposes will likely be getting unneeded layers of information in a style that may be confusing or overwhelming -- This tool involves creating ways to translate the text content of Wikipedia into a video, not supplying appropriate video content that can better inform the reader of the text they are already reading, like the photography used in Wikipedia already does. When I read: "The easy creation of videos from scripts from Wikipedia and images / short videos from Commons" I think this is WAY, WAY too broad. Just because it's easy to make does not make it easy to watch or listen to. It also doesn't make it useful. I could use this tool to easily make a video about the US Civil War, it doesn't make it like the Ken Burns documentary. My point is that it's not enough to have a primitive tool that can actually generate a derivative adaptation. You need a philosophy behind that tool. We could use the 5 pillars and all the editorial philosophy that’s already there for text and imagery but apply it to video, and use that philosophy to develop the needed tools. Every type of article (biographies, locations, history, etc) could have it’s own slightly different editorial philosophy developed. For example, I took a look for a film that might help illustrate what I think and here is one that kind of does it:
The film above is a professionally-produced educational film about educational films, how they are designed and how to choose them for a classroom. It's an advertisement too, because they had films to sell, but it illustrates pretty well how there is careful thinking behind how a topic is adapted for a screen. Wikipedians are in the same field of work. We pick and choose how an educational topic is to be covered. Illustrative, educational videos or audio could in theory be embedded in every appropriate Wikipedia article (and paragraph of each article) to better augment the text that our users read. This is not so in most cases. The reasons are complicated -- the process of converting and uploading video and audio to Wikimedia Commons is non-intuitive, complicated and ordinary video formats are usually proprietary. Despite the cumbersome processes to get video onto Wikimedia projects, many Wikimedians are adding video to Commons. Partly because of the formatting and conversion issues, there are unfortunately no easy ways to trim sections out of videos or to cut copyrighted sections, giving the average Wikipedia reader sometimes inappropriate video content (too long, includes corporate or government logos, et cetera), or Wikipedians deciding not to use the video in the article because it’s inappropriate. Wikipedians would be great at flagging and removing bits and pieces of copyrighted material from videos.
There is no way to edit video for Wikimedia online (collaboratively or otherwise). Users have to download a video to their own machines, convert everything themselves, edit on their own machine, re-convert and then upload themselves. If another user takes exception to the video, they cannot tweak the video, they can only remove it.
I would much prefer to have basic trim features for video and audio. I will say that the aspect of this tool that is INCREDIBLE is the credits generation:
This should be a tool on it's own, because it could save an enormous amount of work for anyone using Wikimedia Commons content to make a video on their own machine or collaboratively at some point in the future. The uses are obvious!
So to sum up my thoughts: This is a poorly-planned, well-intended tool with some useful aspects that should be forked into their own tool or another better-planned tool.
(One note, if it means anything: I have been a video producer for the Wikimedia Foundation for several years and am currently an independent video producer who still contracts with the WMF occasionally, because of this I have spent much time thinking about how video can be used for/with/within Wikimedia.)
Victor Grigas ( talk) 07:07, 6 March 2019 (UTC)
We have seen before, with Osmosis, an attempt to insert videos into Wikipedia that are simply modified medical-student teaching videos. Above is a similar example from MEDSKL, which is also used to teach medical students, and where the company intends to take a fee for students to be tested on the material. Doc James has neither confirmed nor denied any intention to add further MEDSKL videos to Wikipedia articles. It would be useful if he explained the collaboration with MEDSKL and its intentions.
WP:MEDMOS has always warned about "Writing for the wrong audience". This is particularly a danger for our professional medical editors, but also for anyone reading medical literature designed for professionals, and then translating that into an article for the general reader. In the book "The Gene: An Intimate History", the author notes that for a long time, medical researchers would label genes according to the disease that was caused when it was faulty. So we have BRCA1 (Breast cancer type 1 susceptibility protein), CFTR (Cystic fibrosis transmembrane conductance regulator), TSC2 (Tuberous Sclerosis Complex 2), etc. But this is a backward way of thinking about our genes, which do useful things like repair damage or control cell growth. It is like saying that the liver is the thing that gets cirrhosis, the heart is the thing that gets heart attacks and the brain the thing that makes us forget things. So, your point of view is very important when writing an encyclopaedic article for the general reader. The classroom video above explains a similar idea.
The point of view of a medic is where they are presented by a patient who is unwell and wants a diagnosis and treatment. The point of view of the person with symptoms is to discover possible causes themselves, to know when they should see an expert, to know what things to test/try at home, to have reassurance that it is ok or that urgent treatment is needed, etc, etc. There's a whole lot that happens before that person reaches the doc. And the point of view of the general reader is just to learn interesting stuff in a hyperlinked encyclopaedia. They may have been reading a biography, then glaucoma, then acute visual loss, then slit lamp, and so on. They likely want to flit from one topic to another and only read in depth the parts that fascinate them. The general reader will want to know about normal eye pressure or how the retina normally works: the human body is not just a collection of diseased parts.
The Acute visual loss article was created based on the MEDSKL video, which it now contains. The text assumes the reader is a medic presented with a patient who has acute visual loss. It gives examples of four possible conditions and explains why each "should be considered if". The choice of these four conditions appears to be quite arbitrary. Other articles on the subject give more ( MSD Manuals, Medscape and FP Notebook). One suspects the presentation of these four was based round a number of new facts that a student might easily remember (similar to the "three point sermon" idea for preachers), and can later be tested on: "Name one common cause of acute visual loss". All four are just listed and very briefly described in isolation, like a short listicle. Instead, a more comprehensive approach (taken by the above linked articles) would be to distinguish conditions by "Is there pain or not?" and "Does it affect one eye or both?" and "Is it transient or persistent?" and "What predisposing factors might the person have?" If one were to read the literature on the topic before writing the article, one might create quite a different article with perhaps a dozen possible causes of acute visual loss and a clear structure round the presentation of the various kinds.
We aren't here to teach students facts that they will later be examined on. We're here to write fascinating articles on lots of interesting subjects, and for each article to participate in being only part of the experience of using a hyperlinked encyclopaedia. We might hold the reader's attention for seconds or for half an hour. They may read bits of the lead and one body section. Unlike a real classroom, we can't insist on their attention for minutes of linear information presentation, and there are no penalties if they click away to something else.
I don't think it is appropriate to take material designed for teaching, and designed for a specific tiny subset of subject specialists, and prominently offer that as though it is a summary of the article topic. If the material meets our WP:EL policy, then of course we can link to it off-wiki. The material may be useful in a different wiki project outside of Wikipedia. If, at some point in the future, the wider Wikipedia community, thinks having article-summary videos is a good thing, they should be collaboratively created and maintained by Wikipedians for the general reader. -- Colin° Talk 12:08, 7 March 2019 (UTC)
I noticed a suggested edit at Talk:Measles vaccine#Early Vaccination that could use some input. Thanks! JenOttawa ( talk) 14:33, 11 March 2019 (UTC)
Should trichology be added to WikiProject Medicine as suggested by Wikipedia? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Susan Ringsell ( talk • contribs) 12:01, 19 March 2019 (UTC)
Hi all, would anyone be able to direct me on how to add citations to an infobox? I'm looking to do so for the L1 syndrome page. I don't see the "cite" button -- I am new to Wikipedia so any help would be greatly appreciated. Shaquille Oatmeal ( talk) 03:30, 20 March 2019 (UTC)
Is this a list worth keeping? Natureium ( talk) 15:10, 20 March 2019 (UTC)
Can someone with medical expertise please review the new article MitoQ? The article creator says one their user page that they are paid by MitoQ Limited for their contributions to Wikipedia. It looks like mostly product promotion to me. Deli nk ( talk) 13:29, 22 March 2019 (UTC)
I'm concerned about the recent edits that Science person guy 1 ( talk · contribs · count) made to the Salicylate sensitivity article. I reverted the first two edits ( Special:Diff/888495585, Special:Diff/888496045), because they removed content sourced to academic journals while citing The Samter's Society, which is not WP:MEDRS-compliant. The third edit ( Special:Diff/888496642) cited an editorial published in The Journal of Allergy and Clinical Immunology while removing the same content as the first two edits.
If you are familiar with the subject matter, can you please offer your opinion on whether these edits are appropriate? Thanks for your help. — Newslinger talk 15:46, 19 March 2019 (UTC)
Just to be clear aspirin desensitization is NOT for salicylate allergy! Listing it as a treatment is mischaracterizing its actual use for NSAID allergy. Additionally - aspirin desensitization (or other NSAIDs for that matter - ketorolac + lysine aspirin) is almost always a 1-2 day procedure, performed in an outpatient setting. The amount of research that is publically available is staggering - 6 day procedures virtually don't exist anymore. It is not indicated for salicylate allergy which is hardly recognized in actual circles of allergists as it not quantifiable and not mediated through the immune system! Please STOP listing this as a treatment. thanks - Science person guy 1 — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
Science person guy 1 (
talk •
contribs) 19:04, 20 March 2019 (UTC)
Hi, just an FYI, currently an event is occurring at Imperial Medical College improving the articles Covert medication and Right ventricular hypertrophy, supervised by lecturers at the university IC ssaleh, Dr sunflowers, two librarians ( Librarianrebecca and Hammersfan) and Battleofalma. Battleofalma ( talk) 11:51, 23 March 2019 (UTC)
Note: For those interested. (For reasons of transparency, please comment there. Thanks in advance.)-- Hildeoc ( talk) 16:51, 23 March 2019 (UTC)
Note: For those interested. (For reasons of transparency, please comment there. Thanks in advance.)-- Hildeoc ( talk) 17:31, 23 March 2019 (UTC
more opinions please--
Ozzie10aaaa (
talk) 11:49, 26 March 2019 (UTC)
If anyone is interested in taking a look, there's stuff about pills against radiation etc. Gråbergs Gråa Sång ( talk) 17:24, 21 March 2019 (UTC)
A page on Rapid Onset Gender Dysphoria has been created and it would seem to contradict our guidelines. Although it claims to describe a new syndrome, there are no sources that fit Wikipedia:MEDRS guideline such as clinical studies let alone reviews. The only journal that is cited, PLOSone recently published a correction [12] noting the lack of any direct clinical data to substantiate the condition. I don't think it's a good look for WP to publish medical sounding articles with inadequate references. Freepsbane ( talk) 21:39, 19 March 2019 (UTC)
Have it your way, but if someone claims there are generally accepted facts but produces no evidence, then what should we think? I’m not badgering I’m lobbying that we use the accepted guidelines. If people don’t like an under sourced article being critiqued then the solution is very simple: improve the sources and not only does critique become imposssible but the article quality is improved dramatically. We can’t have terribly sourced articles that claim to be medical giving medical advice without so much as a single supporting study. Freepsbane ( talk) 20:31, 20 March 2019 (UTC)
( talk) 02:10, 21 March 2019 (UTC)
Again you cite a non-scholarly secondary source, the correction published in PLOS explicitly states "The post-publication review identified issues that needed to be addressed to ensure the article meets PLOS ONE’s publication criteria. Given the nature of the issues in this case, the PLOS ONE Editors decided to republish the article, replacing the original version of record with a revised version in which the author has updated the Title, Abstract, Introduction, Discussion, and Conclusion sections, to address the concerns raised in the editorial reassessment" polling data from a descriptive study is the least important aspect, PLOS determined the interpretation, the Discussion and Conclusions were not publication quality and forced a complete rewrite. Rejecting the interpretation of data and conclusion, the most important aspects of a descriptive study does not an endorsement make. This is why we must strive to cite the journals themselves, not lay sites that might misinterpret and play a game of telephone. Freepsbane ( talk) 02:07, 21 March 2019 (UTC)
You also made a mistake in describing my criticism as uninformed and politically motivated from a layman. I'm a biomedical researcher, I have publications. I know how to read journals and if as plosone says they forced a total rewrite of Conclusions and Discussion that is far from an endorsement, usually only major concerns that would otherwise lead to a rejection of the paper force an extensive rewrite of multiple sections like, Introduction, Discussion, and Conclusion. And I am not engaging in original research, I am going by both the letter of correction which said there were many problems to correct to make of publication quality, and the editor's word [15] on this matter. Also I have zero expertise regarding Questioning (sexuality and gender) so editing that would not be constructive. But I do know how to read papers, how their publishing works, and I can take the time to read the letter of correction and the editor's statement and my citing them helps. Better to quote the scholarly source than lay sites that might misinterpret. Freepsbane ( talk) 02:12, 21 March 2019 (UTC)
Also I’m not saying the journalists at the chronicle site have agendas, they just don’t have the training to read papers. So when they heard that the “results” section (which is just mater of factly stated poll responses which only could have changed had the polling been redone) was unchanged they mistook it for the paper being the same. When in fact the abstract intro, discussion and conclusions were according to the letter of corrections extensively rewritten (about as dramatic a change reviewers can ever force) and ergo the data interpretation changed. If they don’t know how papers are organized they could have missed. It is not their fault, it is just an illustration of why we must cite journals over popular culture whenever possible. Freepsbane ( talk) 21:51, 21 March 2019 (UTC)
And yes I did check: Mr. Bartlett of the chronicle is not a trained scientist, he has zero scholarly publications or experience as a reviewer so he was out of his element in trying to interpret the letter; a professor for that matter would understand how serious extensive rewrites to make the paper publication quality are. Bartlett was trying to interpret the letter so better we cite and quote the letter itself. I’m certain Bartlett is expert on pop culture reporting but this shows why we must cite the journals themselves. Freepsbane ( talk) 22:08, 21 March 2019 (UTC)
Some expert eyes are needed at Technetium (99mTc) sestamibi (a pharmaceutical agent used in nuclear medicine imaging). For background, see this discussion at the Conflict of Interest Noticeboard. Voceditenore ( talk) 16:44, 27 March 2019 (UTC)
How we conclude its a pseudoscience. We not have any instruments yet to discover its function of dilution. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2409:4072:610F:F61:E927:528D:348B:1EA7 ( talk) 04:16, 27 March 2019 (UTC)
I've started a new page on Alveolar cleft grafting (one of the surgeries for the treatment of cleft lip and palate). I'll be expanding and adding more citations tomorrow. Could someone take a quick peak to make sure i've structed it inline with WP:MEDMOS and add it onto our watched articles list? Ian Furst ( talk) 00:03, 23 March 2019 (UTC)