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The information that Mirko Krav Fabris is the first conclavist antipope was added to the article
Conclavism in
added 2008 without giving any source.
I have not found anything on this supposed antipope from Croatia apart from a reference from Chryssides (see below). The
information on the standup.si website of "MIRKO FABRIS KRAV" does not match with someone who is born before 1978.
George Chryssides gives in his Historical Dictionary of New Religious Movements (2nd ed. from 2012) the name "Mirko Krav Fabis" (not "Fabris", but the book also has in the same entry "Joaquia Sánez y Arriga" which is a typo mistake for
Joaquín Sáenz y Arriaga so maybe "Fabis" is also a typo) as the first Conclavist antipope. However, I am afraid it may be a case of
WP:CITOGENESIS. The first edition of the book
is from 2001, and after consulting this first edition
on the Internet Archive, I see there is no "Conclavism" or "Conclavist" entry where they should be (p. 96-7), and after a digital OCR search inside the book I see there is no mention of "conclav", "Krav", "Fabris" or "Fabis".
Does any of you have any source from before 11 October 2008 stating this Mirko Krav Fabis/Mirko Krav Fabris claimed in any way to be pope?
Veverve (
talk) 14:22, 13 January 2022 (UTC)
@
Ad Orientem,
A. C. Santacruz,
GoodDay, and
Johnbod: I revently had a discussion throught revert-editing summaries with @
LoopaMoopa: at
David Bawden. LoopaMoopa argued that antipopes should have as
honorific "Antipope" and
stated it was the convention. Therefore, I decided to investigate.
I have checked the list of historical and modern antipopes at
Antipope and noted my observations about honorifics for antipopes who have an infobox.
Here are my observations, the popes with "(Pal.)" next to them are leaders of the
Palmarian Catholic Church to show how inconsistent honorifics can be:
As we can see, there is no convention on this. Therefore, I think a consensus should be reached on what antipopes' honorifics should be.
As for me, I think only the latest honorific used for those popes within their denomination while they are in office, sourced within the article with proper RS, should be used, whatever they may be ("His Holiness", "His Greatness", "Mary's Great Fighter", "His Humbleness", etc.). Of course, this could be changed in some special cases, such as with
Ginés Jesús Hernández who is not pope or even priest anymore. If ther is no honorifics properly sourced within the article, then no honorifics should be used. I believe "Antipope" is not a
honorific, rather it is either the contrary - a pejorative term used by mainstream denominations - or a neutral qualificative used by historians.
Veverve (
talk) 11:34, 23 December 2021 (UTC)
EDIT (I forgot this one):
Veverve ( talk) 14:28, 30 December 2021 (UTC)
I have added Lucian Pulvermacher which I had forgotten. Veverve ( talk) 14:29, 30 December 2021 (UTC)
John XXIII
Western Schism - Pisan claimant | |
---|---|
Papacy began | 1410 |
Papacy ended | 1415 |
Predecessor | Alexander V |
Opposed to | Roman claimant: Gregory XII Avignon claimant: Benedict XIII |
Personal details | |
Born |
c. 1365 |
Died | 1419 (aged 53–54) Florence, Republic of Florence |
Coat of arms | |
Other popes and antipopes named John |
A side note: I should point out, that in the past, some editors have gotten the Avignon Papacy confused with the anti-popes residing in Avignon. In recent weeks in some areas, I've had to untangle that confusion. The Avignon Papacy was the time period between 1309 & 1377, when the popes were residing in Avignon, rather the Rome. This was before the Western Schism occurred. GoodDay ( talk) 18:27, 18 January 2022 (UTC)
Please see Talk:Investiture Controversy#Second merge from Concordat of Worms. Thanks! -- Beland ( talk) 02:38, 30 January 2022 (UTC)
I wanna inform about the draft Male-female and pro-gender variants of the site in the Community Wishlist Survey 2022. ✍️ Dušan Kreheľ ( talk) 13:07, 6 February 2022 (UTC)
Index of Vatican City–related articles, a maintained high-importance WikiProject page viewed by hundreds and sometimes thousands of readers a day, is up for deletion mixed-in with 173 other pages. Randy Kryn ( talk) 11:48, 22 February 2022 (UTC)
The long standing article titled " Catholic (term)" was WP:Boldly moved to " History of Catholicity". I have concerns, as the article is largely about development and usage of the word "catholic" rather than history of catholic beliefs (ie catholicity). The page has has already been moved several times ( here and here), so before things get muddy, I'd like a clear consensus to be developed. – Zfish118⋉ talk 01:44, 25 January 2022 (UTC)
Please comment here on the potential of a move of this article to be merged with Ambrosian Rite. ~ Pbritti ( talk) 18:28, 3 March 2022 (UTC)
I'm glad to see that no one (so far) has jumped the gun about the changes to the Roman Curia from the document Praedicate Evangelium which was released yesterday (but only in Italian). The changes will become effective on 5 Jun 2022. There are 2 mergers and 1 rename, the rest are the change to Dicastery from either a Congregation or one of the previous lesser forms. I suspect there will be a number of personnel changes between now and then as well.
The mergers are:
and the name change is:
Also any references to Pastor Bonus for current descriptions of the various curial offices will be null and void as of the same date. The document has not been published in the normal spot on the Vatican website yet, but it is available (in Italian only) here. [1]
Dcheney ( talk) 05:38, 20 March 2022 (UTC)
References
There is a move request currently under discussion which needs input from experienced editors who may have some knowledge regarding the Church of the East. The discussion can be found here. - Ad Orientem ( talk) 02:53, 27 March 2022 (UTC)
@
Dcheney,
Jdcompguy, and
Pbritti: (and anyone willing to help), what are we to do with
Dicastery with the upcoming changes with
Praedicate evangelium?
The current definition is quite vague and is unsourced.
The definitions of
Catholic Culture and
Collins Dictionary say the word is used only for
congregations.
Merriam-Webster's definition is completely unrelated. The definition of
Pastor bonus is "the Secretariat of State, Congregations, Tribunals, Councils and Offices, namely the Apostolic Camera, the Administration of the Patrimony of the Apostolic See, and the Prefecture for the Economic Affairs of the Holy See" (Art. 2).
I can find no clear consistent definition of the term.
Do you have any idea or suggestion on what is to be done with this article? Please bear in mind that the article is already linked to various WIkipedia articles, likely for its current scope and definition.
Veverve (
talk) 02:48, 22 March 2022 (UTC)
Today while updating Orphan articles I discovered Abibon and Saint Abibas. Within article Gamaliel#Veneration, together with his son Abibon (Abibo, Abibas, Abibus)...". If both are about the same person, asking for expert help to merge into one article. JoeNMLC ( talk) 18:50, 31 March 2022 (UTC)
There is a request for comment at Talk:Syro-Malabar Church § request for comment: 1663 vs 1923 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. – MJL ‐Talk‐ ☖ 15:43, 20 April 2022 (UTC)
Somebody needs to have a look at this article. A couple sections look like they were written by his PR team. - Ad Orientem ( talk) 14:45, 21 April 2022 (UTC)
There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Saint Timothy#Requested move 13 April 2022 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. ASUKITE 19:32, 21 April 2022 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
With the recent departure of a number of the most vigorous supporters of the usage of "
Roman Catholic" from Wikipedia, it might be time to formally reopen the matter for discussion so that a renewed, revised, and improved set of consensuses can be developed on the topic.
Linked here are a series of debates, discussions, and consensus-building precedent on the issue of using the term "Roman Catholic": 2006, 2017, 2021
While the above links are perhaps the smallest snapshot of the discussions surrounding the terminology of "Catholic" versus "Roman Catholic" on the talk pages of this website, they represent the facts at the crux of this issue:
So, what's the solution? I will list a series of proposals for discussion. Please feel free to agree with some and disagree with others. This is simply about creating a clearer, more wieldable precedent that will be serve as a SOP for this Wikiproject's articles.
Preemptively addressing some of the criticisms frequently brought up:
If you are even only cursorily involved in this Wikiproject’s articles or care about accuracy, precision, and anti-edit-warring, this is your opportunity to have a lasting impact on Wikipedia and the public understanding of one of the most wide-reaching topics around. Thanks ~ Pbritti ( talk) 00:28, 8 November 2021 (UTC)
Here is the ngram Manabimasu ( talk) 06:48, 2 March 2022 (UTC)
The following suggestion is not Wp:commonname but WP:IAR. For the example, look at Baghdad. Two sources Gcatholic and Catholic-hierarchy may not give the same name. Since Latin is the eccclesiastical language of the church. Both sources will have the same latin name. Suggestion - Use the English translation of the Latin name
Better yet source is Annuario Pontifico, the notizie being the predecessor. Anyone know if the AP is in English? Thoughts? Manabimasu ( talk) 06:48, 2 March 2022 (UTC)
There is a new RfC open at Talk:Shroud of Turin#Request for comment on lead which is relevant to this project. Instaurare ( talk) 06:41, 25 April 2022 (UTC)
On the Italian wikipedia, there is a very interesting/useful page (ok, for Catholic geeks like me ;-) that has no equivalent on the English wiki (at least not that I've found). Its called Project: Diocese / Nomination monitoring. It basically tracks Bishop nominations until they are installed in their new diocese. Dcheney ( talk) 21:43, 25 April 2022 (UTC)
Thanks, Pbritti!
Dcheney, I’m on mobile rn, but if you get the chance, Google MitreSighter - it might be a good tool in establishing something like this. Maximilian775 ( talk) 21:54, 25 April 2022 (UTC)
The article
Latin Mass seems to serve no purpose. As of now, the article appears to be about 'Use of Latin in Christian liturgy'. The fact the article is called "Latin Mass" excludes Eastern Orthodox despite them being mentioned in the lede without any source to support the claim associated with them (EOrthodox very, very strongly reject the term 'mass' for
divine liturgies). Or is the article only about Catholic liturgical practices?
The AfD does not provide any clear consensus as to what the topic should be. The article seems mostly
WP:SYNTH and often goes out of topic.
The article should be renamed to reflect its topic whathever topic is decided; the current title is too vague.
But the crux is: is this topic really notable? Is there really RSs covering the way Latin is used in Christian liturgies beyond what could be expressed in two lines? Should the article be turned into a DAB? I know of the WP fr article
fr:Latinité du chant grégorien ('Latinity of the Gregorian chant') which had a lot of editing problems a few months ago and likely still has many due to the main author POV-pushing and lacking
WP:COMPETENCE; this article seems to indicate Latin in liturgies was studied scholarly, but again the information there should not be taken at face value.
So, what do you say? What do you think should be done with the
Latin Mass article? Any comment is welcome.
Veverve (
talk) 20:02, 27 April 2022 (UTC)
I have (with the help of others) made a small user script to detect and highlight various links to unreliable sources and predatory journals. Some of you may already be familiar with it, given it is currently the 39th most imported script on Wikipedia. The idea is that it takes something like
John Smith "[https://www.deprecated.com/article Article of things]" ''Deprecated.com''. Accessed 2020-02-14.
)and turns it into something like
It will work on a variety of links, including those from {{ cite web}}, {{ cite journal}} and {{ doi}}.
The script is mostly based on WP:RSPSOURCES, WP:NPPSG and WP:CITEWATCH and a good dose of common sense. I'm always expanding coverage and tweaking the script's logic, so general feedback and suggestions to expand coverage to other unreliable sources are always welcomed.
Do note that this is not a script to be mindlessly used, and several caveats apply. Details and instructions are available at User:Headbomb/unreliable. Questions, comments and requests can be made at User talk:Headbomb/unreliable.
This is a one time notice and can't be unsubscribed from. Delivered by: MediaWiki message delivery ( talk) 16:01, 29 April 2022 (UTC)
Hello. What do you think should be done with the "Extraordinary form" redirects?
Extraordinary form of the Roman Rite,
Extraordinary Form of the Roman Rite,
Extraordinary Form,
Extraordinary form currently all redirect to
Summorum Pontificum. Whatever you believe those four redirects should point to, it must be noted that:
Any feedback is welcome. The current target is not bad, so there is no rush to take any decision, so feel free to speak your mind. Whatever decision is taken - if a decision is taken at all -, all four links should target the same WP article. Veverve ( talk) 02:29, 29 March 2022 (UTC)
@ Jdcompguy: So you mean an article on the use of the extroardinary form as established by SP - i.e. the John XXIII missal and pre-Vatican II Roman Ritual - by communities in communion with the Holy See, while thoses dispositions lasted (2007-2021)? I see two problems:
So, on the expression and its meaning post-Traditionis custodes, maybe we should wait for the Holy See to clear things up, or for a clear academic consensus to be established. Risks of OR or WP:SYNTH are quite significant I feel. In any case, feel free to make a draft and collect the data while it is still fresh and easy to find in case the article gets created. What do you think? Veverve ( talk) 17:08, 30 March 2022 (UTC)
the terminology for the topic is all over the place: typical for this WProject, sadly 😕. Why are there so few recent Catholic dictionaries when you need them the most? Veverve ( talk) 12:02, 3 May 2022 (UTC)
Hi, I created the following template:
Thank you for your recent contributions to one of Wikipedia's Catholic-related articles. Given the interest you've expressed by your edits, have you considered joining
WikiProject Catholicism? We are a group of editors dedicated to improving the overall quality of Wikipedia's Catholicism-related content. If you would like to join, simply add your name to the
list of members. We also have a
to-do list and other
things to do that might interest you as well.
If you have any questions, don't hesitate to ask at the project talk page. We look forward to working with you in the future! Peaceray ( talk) 19:26, 9 May 2022 (UTC) |
When used as {{subst:WP:CATHOLICISM/Invite|~~~~}}
, it will also add a header, WikiProject Catholicism Invitation.
You can see instructions for its use at: WP:CATHOLICISM/Invite. Please let me know if I should include it at Wikipedia:WikiProject Catholicism#Templates. Please also make any necessary adjustments to the template. Peaceray ( talk) 19:26, 9 May 2022 (UTC)
I have nominated Maximus the Confessor for a featured article review here. Please join the discussion on whether this article meets featured article criteria. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. If substantial concerns are not addressed during the review period, the article will be moved to the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Delist" the article's featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. Extraordinary Writ ( talk) 06:33, 13 May 2022 (UTC)
There is an AfD discussion now open for the article The OC wall calendar, an article that is adjacent to this WikiProject. ~ Pbritti ( talk) 16:21, 31 May 2022 (UTC)
Hello all, just a quick notice that there has been a heavy POV push in several articles regarding universal resurrection (inexistance of Hell). It was a fringe view held by maybe 4 or 5 Church Fathers (out of hundreds) but is depicted as the belief of the "majority of Early Church". See: Apocatastasis, Christian universalism, Origen, Gregory of Nyssa, and related articles. In fact the Apocatastasis article must be re-written almost in whole, I have left some comments on its talk page. Please take a look. -- El Huinca ( talk) 22:58, 3 June 2022 (UTC)
In light of Praedicate Evangelium having taken effect, the "Roman Curia sidebar" needs some attention. I have no idea how to even locate the source for it! Dcheney ( talk) 20:00, 5 June 2022 (UTC)
There is a merge discussion open at Talk:Orthodox Anglican Communion#Merge discussion for merging these two related entities. ~ Pbritti ( talk) 16:40, 9 June 2022 (UTC)
This article could use some attention from this project. For one, none of the other wikipedia languages use this title, instead calling it the Cattedrale di Santa Maria Assunta. (see it:Cattedrale di Santa Maria Assunta (Brescia) for example). It also appears to have content different from the much better referenced and developed Italian language wiki page on the same subject. It needs some fact checking for errors, better citations, and perhaps re-naming to be consistent with other foreign language wiki pages. Best. 4meter4 ( talk) 21:16, 9 June 2022 (UTC)
There is a discussion in progress about recent additions to Joseph Pearce. Project members are invited to visit the discussion and contribute their views. Chiswick Chap ( talk) 13:30, 13 June 2022 (UTC)
I've read through MOS:HON and believe honorifics are generally not included in the body of an article, however, I do not know the general consensus on Catholic articles and since Our Lady of the Assumption Cathedral (Moncton) is one such article I thought it best to ask if the honorifics included in the article are generally acceptable. I could have just removed it as per WP:BOLD but thought it best to at least contact a related WikiProject on common practice. I found the article through random selection. It appears to be a translation from wp:fr. -- ARose Wolf 14:32, 15 June 2022 (UTC)
Hi editors, my name is KC and I work for Ascension. I've been trying to make some updates to the Ascension article and I'm hoping someone here might be interested as Ascension is the largest Catholic health system in the world. I'd love some feedback on my latest request. I won't make any changes due to my COI, but I hope I can offer some resources and wording suggestions. Please let me know what you think! KC at Ascension ( talk) 22:21, 15 June 2022 (UTC)
There is currently a discussion at Talk:Papal primacy about whether to remove or retain the Papal primacy#Opposition arguments from Church Councils section. The thread is removed a section.
I am at loggerheads with what appears to be a single-purpose IP editor. I am not saying that I am in the right & would acquiese to any consensus. We need help with expertise in the matter or someone who is fluent in reading Latin. In the thread there are two links of unvetted Worldcat records for online sources that are in Latin.
Thanks! Peaceray ( talk) 00:10, 16 June 2022 (UTC)
Hello, I am asking for input on a new parameter for {{ Infobox church}} and have opened a discussion at Template talk:Infobox church#Addition of ecclesiastical region. Please come and give your thoughts on the matter. Your input is welcome! Vesuvio14 ( talk) 12:11, 16 June 2022 (UTC)
Just the usual warning: the 21 cardinals on the list today will not become cardinals until the ceremony on 27 August 2022. It is appropriate for a note to be added to their wiki articles that they will be created cardinals on that date. Dcheney ( talk) 11:32, 29 May 2022 (UTC)
Hi, is there anyone here who could cast an eye on the way that the medieval Catholic view of Astrology is presented in that article? I am trying to approach it from a history of thought angle, but am completely out of my depth when it comes to Aquinas and other theologians. Many thanks if anyone with an understanding of medieval Catholic thought could come past. Itsmejudith ( talk) 09:40, 17 June 2022 (UTC)
See here. Veverve ( talk) 08:36, 19 June 2022 (UTC)
There is currently a discussion at Template talk:infobox diocese about whether to add Episcopal conference of a diocese to country or add a new parameter altogether. The thread is Episcopal conference.
Please feel free to contribute to this discussion, thought I ought to bring it to your attention! Vesuvio14 ( talk) 14:17, 20 June 2022 (UTC)
Please participate in this AfD discussion regarding the Anglican Orthodox Southern Episcopal Church. ~ Pbritti ( talk) 15:13, 20 June 2022 (UTC)
As noted early by @ Dcheney four dicasteries have been merged into two dicasteries under PE. What is Wikiproject Catholicism's policy for retaining articles for older extinct departments of the Curia? (i.e. should Congregation for the Evangelization of Peoples be retained for historical purposes (as I imagine Pontifical Council for Promoting the New Evangelization surely will be), with a new article for the new dicastery, or should it simply be renamed Dicastery for Evangelization, as most of the former Congregation articles are? - same question and logic for "Education & Culture") Magnus Aurelius Cassiodorus Senator ( talk) 19:30, 6 June 2022 (UTC)
Indirect abortion is in need of more specific sources. The journal "The Linacre Quarterly" I have found to have self-identified to be a catholic perspective. The current article is lacking specificity of indirect techniques and cases of indirect abortion in relation to medical field. 64.53.212.155 ( talk) 04:06, 28 June 2022 (UTC)
Besides the original Italian, it is now available in English, Arabic, Portuguese, and Spanish. Links on English Wikipedia should probably be updated to this version. Dcheney ( talk) 15:02, 30 June 2022 (UTC)
Does anyone have any sources that might establish notability for this Marian prayer, As a Child I Loved You? Despite potentially having the requisite sourcing, seems to have very, very limited notability. If nobody has anything in the next couple days, I'm going to propose an AfD. ~ Pbritti ( talk) 22:17, 22 June 2022 (UTC)
@ Zfish118 and Manannan67: The article deletion discussion is open here. ~ Pbritti ( talk) 21:00, 13 July 2022 (UTC)
Greetings, folks! @ Horse Eye's Back has decided to trawl through a rather large swath of articles, including those covered by this project, and tag them for notability. He isn't participating in discussion, raising any particular issues on the talk pages, nor has ever participated in constructive editing there, so I consider these to be instances of WP:DRIVEBY tagging. I feel it is counterproductive for an editor to go through dozens, hundreds of articles to merely tag them, and even revert editors who disagree. Elizium23 ( talk) 16:28, 14 July 2022 (UTC)
User:Elizium23 Agree. Manannan67 ( talk) 07:17, 16 July 2022 (UTC)
What is the correct phrase for the traditional Benedictine motto: " Pray and work" or "Ora et labora"? Feel free to chime in. Manannan67 ( talk) 20:23, 16 July 2022 (UTC)
Can this get some expansion? Peter Ormond 💬 20:13, 24 July 2022 (UTC)
There is currently a discussion which you might want to participate in at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard#Epiphyllumlover additions of polygamist information, which especially concerns the Respect for Marriage Act and articles relating to it, including Salvatore Cordileone.-- Epiphyllumlover ( talk) 20:04, 28 July 2022 (UTC)
A page move discussion has been opened at Talk:Society of Jesus#Requested move 31 July 2022 – Zfish118⋉ talk 00:49, 31 July 2022 (UTC)
Thanks for flagging. Jahaza ( talk) 01:06, 31 July 2022 (UTC)
Catholic Worker Tom Cornell has died. Any help with the article would be appreciated. Thank you, Thriley ( talk) 04:35, 3 August 2022 (UTC)
For the reasons explained at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of post-nominal letters (Vatican City), I've nominated the article for deletion.-- Jahaza ( talk) 04:54, 4 August 2022 (UTC)
Greetings! It seems that we could arrive at more WP:CONSISTENT article titles for papal visits.
Greetings! It has come to my attention that there are many articles in this project which we should rename. MOS:ENBETWEEN specifies that an en-dash "–" should be used to join two geographical terms. For example, List of Catholic dioceses in Italy indicates many territories which have been merged and therefore have compound names. The ones which currently contain a hypen "-" would need to be moved to a new name, and slightly edited for consistency. MOS:ENBETWEEN is more nuanced, so I don't expect that every single article could be renamed. @ Dcheney, others: any idea how we could identify the lot, and file a WP:BOTREQ or define a WP:JWB job for these? Elizium23 ( talk) 00:06, 25 July 2022 (UTC)
The redirect Sedevacantist Antipope and a few very similar redirects which currently target Conclavism are under discussion at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2022 August 21#Sedevacantist Antipope. Tartar Torte 13:16, 21 August 2022 (UTC)
There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Franciscus Renatus Boussen#Requested move 7 August 2022 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. – robertsky ( talk) 10:36, 22 August 2022 (UTC)
There is a Featured Article Save Award nomination at Wikipedia talk:Featured article review/Joan of Arc/archive2. Please join the discussion to recognize and celebrate editors who helped assure this article would retain its featured status. SandyGeorgia ( Talk) 14:38, 4 September 2022 (UTC)
Wikipedia:Reliable Sources/Noticeboard has an RFC for regarding the reliability of New Advent, which is within the scope of this WikiProject, as a source on Wikipedia. A discussion is taking place. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments on the discussion page. Thank you. — Red-tailed hawk (nest) 17:18, 17 September 2022 (UTC)
This is just a casual reminder for those on this WikiProject to set Wikipedia:WikiProject Deletion sorting/Christianity to your watchlist! Backlogs on relisted AfDs are all too common and commenting on just one AfD a month will substantially reduce this! Thanks! ~ Pbritti ( talk) 20:42, 19 September 2022 (UTC)
An RFC concerning papal intros is being held. Input there, would be welcomed. GoodDay ( talk) 08:20, 22 September 2022 (UTC)
There is a requested move discussion at Talk:William Mulvey#Requested move 25 September 2022 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. Sammi Brie (she/her • t • c) 00:14, 25 September 2022 (UTC)
There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Dissent from Catholic teaching on homosexuality#Requested move 17 September 2022 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. ASUKITE 18:38, 28 September 2022 (UTC)
As I was making edits to the Catholic Church article, I was looking for a good summary article of the various Eastern-rite liturgies, and could find none other than a few bare lists. This would be a valuable article to have, even if its not much list with a paragraph or two for each rite, describing when/where it originated and any distinguishing characteristics. I may start one, but if anyone is ambiguous you are welcome to as well. – Zfish118⋉ talk 16:17, 24 September 2022 (UTC)
Consider this something of a long-lead notice of my intention to create two pages to supplant Catholic particular churches and liturgical rites: one for "Christian liturgical rites" without a singularly Catholic focus (and exclusionary of Masonic rites etc.) and "Eastern Catholic liturgy" to cover the terminology, history, and forms of that topic. From there, I hope we can abridge the aforementioned extant article to cover the topic of particular churches more exclusively. ~ Pbritti ( talk) 19:25, 27 September 2022 (UTC)
@ Zfish118:, @ Elizium23:, and @ Pbritti:, a summary article on Christian liturgy is a very good idea, the demarcation of Christian liturgy as "Eastern" or "Western" really is artificial and somewhat arbitrary, and it varies with perspective. Several of the ancient oriental churches would regard the churches of the Orthodox Communion as part of western Christianity, and thus would regard the Byzantine Rite as a western rite rather than an eastern rite. Thus, the summary article should encompass ALL Christian rites and uses. "Christian liturgical rites and uses" or "Christian liturgy" might be possible titles for such an article.
And yes, the discussion should include the liturgical practices of various Protestant bodies. Norm1979 ( talk) 17:11, 3 October 2022 (UTC)
Is Santa Maria de Monserrato (est 1889) the same as "the Abbey of Our Lady of Montserrat" also known as São Bento Monastery (est 1890)? Coincidental names? founded within a year of each other by Benedictines in the same city. (Most of the Santa Maria page looks like outdated CE material; if so, that could be trimmed and moved to the Brazilian Congregation article.) Please respond to Talk:Santa Maria de Monserrato. Thank you very much. Manannan67 ( talk) 04:18, 13 October 2022 (UTC)
As this family has ties to Christian/Catholic history, editors may wish to comment here. All opinions are welcome. 4meter4 ( talk) 03:47, 19 October 2022 (UTC)
Hello all, I feel like this discussion may have been had before but I cannot find it so will ask now. On pages such as dioceses, should the metropolitan parameter be filled with the metropolitan archdiocese or metropolitan archbishop? I have seen both cases across different articles, as well as some which use the archdiocese's main city. Would be good to get a conclusion on this. Thanks in advance, Vesuvio14 ( talk) 11:03, 13 October 2022 (UTC)
Comment Is the name of the Metropolitan Archbishop relevant in mos diocesan articles? I could anticipate a limited number of cases where this might be relevant. It would seem to me the parameter is ambiguous and might be revised into two explicit "metropolitan archbishop" and "metropolitan archdiocese" parameters. That way, when it's relevant, it's consistently used. – Zfish118⋉ talk 15:29, 15 October 2022 (UTC)
Hi Wikiproject!
This article follows the format and structure set up by predecessors, however things on the ground are different now. Firstly, we cannot add "future beatifications" to articles like this because of WP:CRYSTAL. You can discuss an upcoming event in article prose at the base article but a list like this needs to be restricted to verifiable events only.
Now, as I mentioned on its talk page, Pope Francis isn't really beatifying anyone directly anymore. He signs off and then the beatification ceremony is held locally. That means not in Vatican City, not in Rome, mostly not in Italy, etc. So the article title is rather misleading: Pope Francis does not participate in these beatification ceremonies other than sending out the decree.
I think that this is an opportune time for us to consider how we structure these articles (think about also the venerated and canonized people as well.) Perhaps one article per year, rather than per pope? List of people beatified in the Catholic Church in 2022 for example. A navbox can link them together and they would typically be a good manageable size. It wouldn't matter who is Pope or who is signing decrees. People could be listed month-by-month or by region-continent?
And for Pete's sake, can we please add reliable sources for these? Elizium23 ( talk) 13:24, 23 October 2022 (UTC)
You are invited to join the discussion at Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2022 October 23. Elizium23 ( talk) 05:56, 24 October 2022 (UTC)
You are invited to join the discussion at Talk:Criticism of the Catholic Church § Ordination of women to the priesthood. Elizium23 ( talk) 16:33, 12 November 2022 (UTC)
A search failed me. Can anyone remember a prior discussion we had about allowing flag icons in diocesan infoboxes? Per MOS:INFOBOXFLAG I was able to justify this as dioceses are "human geography" and "administrative divisions" but I'm not sure we had a solid consensus or a widespread discussion on it. It may have been restricted to a couple article talk pages. Elizium23 ( talk) 17:22, 22 November 2022 (UTC)
An editor has requested for Peter Forster (bishop) to be moved to another page. Since you had some involvement with Peter Forster (bishop), you might want to participate in the move discussion (if you have not already done so). Elizium23 ( talk) 09:26, 29 November 2022 (UTC)
An editor has requested for Sexual abuse scandal in the Catholic archdiocese of Chicago to be moved to another page. Since you had some involvement with Sexual abuse scandal in the Catholic archdiocese of Chicago, you might want to participate in the move discussion (if you have not already done so). Elizium23 ( talk) 11:03, 29 November 2022 (UTC)
You are invited to join the discussion at Talk:Solemn Mass § Specific term of art. Elizium23 ( talk) 22:39, 8 December 2022 (UTC)
I just finished the article on Eastern Catholic liturgy. Sorry that it took much longer than I had hoped, but I wanted to balance it being a survey article with the need for a comprehensive article covering Eastern Catholic liturgies as a unified topic. Modifications are welcome. On a related note, is there a way we could incorporate this overarching article into Template:Particular churches sui iuris? ~ Pbritti ( talk) 19:21, 9 December 2022 (UTC)
Recently an editor redirected Frank Bayard, the current Grand Master of the Teutonic Order. Is the position of Grand Master of the order not notable enough itself to justify an article for Bayard? Thriley ( talk) 04:16, 14 December 2022 (UTC)
See [2] Horse Eye's Back has posted a list questioning the reliability of what appear to be some often used sources -without advising a group most likely to possibly use them. Some may be reliable, some may not be. Different people will have different opinions, which is why I bring this here. I don't use Catholic Online, but I like New Advent for its access to CE and Ante-Nicene fathers etc. He, of course, does not consider CE reliable. A bit outdated in some respects, but not too bad on a good deal of standard stuff. This comes after a campaign of WP:DRIVEBY cn tags for both articles bearing a CE template indicating where the info came from, as well as, things that clearly fall under WP:SKYBLUE. This was followed by a continuing spate of notability tags (see above). As a wise woman once said, "AGF is not a suicide pact." Manannan67 ( talk) 08:14, 14 September 2022 (UTC)
Hi everyone, I wrote my first BLP (first article entirely, in fact), today — it's a local auxiliary bishop.
If you have a minute, could you take a look? I'm concerned in particular about using catholic-hierarchy.org as a source.
Draft:Joseph Dabrowski Ethamn ( talk) 07:04, 20 November 2022 (UTC)
Also, when you hyperlink the diocese which a bishop is affiliated with, link to the page for the Catholic diocese rather than the secular city; IE " Diocese of London, Ontario" rather than "Diocese of London, Ontario Thanks for your contribution!
Hello, I started a draft for J. Harding Fisher, an American Jesuit. Can anyone assist with sourcing? Thriley ( talk) 05:59, 16 December 2022 (UTC)
Elizium23 ( talk) 11:50, 21 December 2022 (UTC)
I ran across these examples this week and noticed that neither article mentions the Catholic Church or any other church affiliation! Now, ecumenical and Reformed monasteries are not unheard of, so I'm hesitant to claim them all in the name of Rome just yet. I'm also not sure how many articles are affected - is this the tip of the iceberg, or a few isolated cases? Elizium23 ( talk) 04:56, 22 December 2022 (UTC)
The former pope's health has taken a sharp turn according to the Holy See. I would note that in the event of his passing, there is certain to be a nomination at In the News. Standards for articles being linked on the main page tend to be quite high, with a particular emphasis on referencing. - Ad Orientem ( talk) 15:27, 28 December 2022 (UTC)
I am hoping some of those involved here will chime in the discussion so that we can ditch this extra article that serves no real unique purpose. ~ Pbritti ( talk) 21:00, 29 December 2022 (UTC)
Carlo d'Ippolito di Sant'Ippolito, grand commander of the Sovereign Military Order of Malta from 2011 to 2014, has died. Any help with the article would be appreciated. Thriley ( talk) 02:00, 31 December 2022 (UTC)
An editor has started Draft:Death and Funeral of Pope Benedict XVI (actually it was originally in the mainspace, but I draftified it). I imagine there might also be others working on a similar article. Perhaps some of the members of this WikiProject could help out with this draft and maybe even figure out how many competing drafts there are out this about this topic. If there are more than one, then perhaps the best of the bunch should be kept and the others merged into it to avoid duplicate articles suddenly appearing. -- Marchjuly ( talk) 10:49, 31 December 2022 (UTC)
This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 2015 | ← | Archive 2020 | Archive 2021 | Archive 2022 |
The information that Mirko Krav Fabris is the first conclavist antipope was added to the article
Conclavism in
added 2008 without giving any source.
I have not found anything on this supposed antipope from Croatia apart from a reference from Chryssides (see below). The
information on the standup.si website of "MIRKO FABRIS KRAV" does not match with someone who is born before 1978.
George Chryssides gives in his Historical Dictionary of New Religious Movements (2nd ed. from 2012) the name "Mirko Krav Fabis" (not "Fabris", but the book also has in the same entry "Joaquia Sánez y Arriga" which is a typo mistake for
Joaquín Sáenz y Arriaga so maybe "Fabis" is also a typo) as the first Conclavist antipope. However, I am afraid it may be a case of
WP:CITOGENESIS. The first edition of the book
is from 2001, and after consulting this first edition
on the Internet Archive, I see there is no "Conclavism" or "Conclavist" entry where they should be (p. 96-7), and after a digital OCR search inside the book I see there is no mention of "conclav", "Krav", "Fabris" or "Fabis".
Does any of you have any source from before 11 October 2008 stating this Mirko Krav Fabis/Mirko Krav Fabris claimed in any way to be pope?
Veverve (
talk) 14:22, 13 January 2022 (UTC)
@
Ad Orientem,
A. C. Santacruz,
GoodDay, and
Johnbod: I revently had a discussion throught revert-editing summaries with @
LoopaMoopa: at
David Bawden. LoopaMoopa argued that antipopes should have as
honorific "Antipope" and
stated it was the convention. Therefore, I decided to investigate.
I have checked the list of historical and modern antipopes at
Antipope and noted my observations about honorifics for antipopes who have an infobox.
Here are my observations, the popes with "(Pal.)" next to them are leaders of the
Palmarian Catholic Church to show how inconsistent honorifics can be:
As we can see, there is no convention on this. Therefore, I think a consensus should be reached on what antipopes' honorifics should be.
As for me, I think only the latest honorific used for those popes within their denomination while they are in office, sourced within the article with proper RS, should be used, whatever they may be ("His Holiness", "His Greatness", "Mary's Great Fighter", "His Humbleness", etc.). Of course, this could be changed in some special cases, such as with
Ginés Jesús Hernández who is not pope or even priest anymore. If ther is no honorifics properly sourced within the article, then no honorifics should be used. I believe "Antipope" is not a
honorific, rather it is either the contrary - a pejorative term used by mainstream denominations - or a neutral qualificative used by historians.
Veverve (
talk) 11:34, 23 December 2021 (UTC)
EDIT (I forgot this one):
Veverve ( talk) 14:28, 30 December 2021 (UTC)
I have added Lucian Pulvermacher which I had forgotten. Veverve ( talk) 14:29, 30 December 2021 (UTC)
John XXIII
Western Schism - Pisan claimant | |
---|---|
Papacy began | 1410 |
Papacy ended | 1415 |
Predecessor | Alexander V |
Opposed to | Roman claimant: Gregory XII Avignon claimant: Benedict XIII |
Personal details | |
Born |
c. 1365 |
Died | 1419 (aged 53–54) Florence, Republic of Florence |
Coat of arms | |
Other popes and antipopes named John |
A side note: I should point out, that in the past, some editors have gotten the Avignon Papacy confused with the anti-popes residing in Avignon. In recent weeks in some areas, I've had to untangle that confusion. The Avignon Papacy was the time period between 1309 & 1377, when the popes were residing in Avignon, rather the Rome. This was before the Western Schism occurred. GoodDay ( talk) 18:27, 18 January 2022 (UTC)
Please see Talk:Investiture Controversy#Second merge from Concordat of Worms. Thanks! -- Beland ( talk) 02:38, 30 January 2022 (UTC)
I wanna inform about the draft Male-female and pro-gender variants of the site in the Community Wishlist Survey 2022. ✍️ Dušan Kreheľ ( talk) 13:07, 6 February 2022 (UTC)
Index of Vatican City–related articles, a maintained high-importance WikiProject page viewed by hundreds and sometimes thousands of readers a day, is up for deletion mixed-in with 173 other pages. Randy Kryn ( talk) 11:48, 22 February 2022 (UTC)
The long standing article titled " Catholic (term)" was WP:Boldly moved to " History of Catholicity". I have concerns, as the article is largely about development and usage of the word "catholic" rather than history of catholic beliefs (ie catholicity). The page has has already been moved several times ( here and here), so before things get muddy, I'd like a clear consensus to be developed. – Zfish118⋉ talk 01:44, 25 January 2022 (UTC)
Please comment here on the potential of a move of this article to be merged with Ambrosian Rite. ~ Pbritti ( talk) 18:28, 3 March 2022 (UTC)
I'm glad to see that no one (so far) has jumped the gun about the changes to the Roman Curia from the document Praedicate Evangelium which was released yesterday (but only in Italian). The changes will become effective on 5 Jun 2022. There are 2 mergers and 1 rename, the rest are the change to Dicastery from either a Congregation or one of the previous lesser forms. I suspect there will be a number of personnel changes between now and then as well.
The mergers are:
and the name change is:
Also any references to Pastor Bonus for current descriptions of the various curial offices will be null and void as of the same date. The document has not been published in the normal spot on the Vatican website yet, but it is available (in Italian only) here. [1]
Dcheney ( talk) 05:38, 20 March 2022 (UTC)
References
There is a move request currently under discussion which needs input from experienced editors who may have some knowledge regarding the Church of the East. The discussion can be found here. - Ad Orientem ( talk) 02:53, 27 March 2022 (UTC)
@
Dcheney,
Jdcompguy, and
Pbritti: (and anyone willing to help), what are we to do with
Dicastery with the upcoming changes with
Praedicate evangelium?
The current definition is quite vague and is unsourced.
The definitions of
Catholic Culture and
Collins Dictionary say the word is used only for
congregations.
Merriam-Webster's definition is completely unrelated. The definition of
Pastor bonus is "the Secretariat of State, Congregations, Tribunals, Councils and Offices, namely the Apostolic Camera, the Administration of the Patrimony of the Apostolic See, and the Prefecture for the Economic Affairs of the Holy See" (Art. 2).
I can find no clear consistent definition of the term.
Do you have any idea or suggestion on what is to be done with this article? Please bear in mind that the article is already linked to various WIkipedia articles, likely for its current scope and definition.
Veverve (
talk) 02:48, 22 March 2022 (UTC)
Today while updating Orphan articles I discovered Abibon and Saint Abibas. Within article Gamaliel#Veneration, together with his son Abibon (Abibo, Abibas, Abibus)...". If both are about the same person, asking for expert help to merge into one article. JoeNMLC ( talk) 18:50, 31 March 2022 (UTC)
There is a request for comment at Talk:Syro-Malabar Church § request for comment: 1663 vs 1923 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. – MJL ‐Talk‐ ☖ 15:43, 20 April 2022 (UTC)
Somebody needs to have a look at this article. A couple sections look like they were written by his PR team. - Ad Orientem ( talk) 14:45, 21 April 2022 (UTC)
There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Saint Timothy#Requested move 13 April 2022 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. ASUKITE 19:32, 21 April 2022 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
With the recent departure of a number of the most vigorous supporters of the usage of "
Roman Catholic" from Wikipedia, it might be time to formally reopen the matter for discussion so that a renewed, revised, and improved set of consensuses can be developed on the topic.
Linked here are a series of debates, discussions, and consensus-building precedent on the issue of using the term "Roman Catholic": 2006, 2017, 2021
While the above links are perhaps the smallest snapshot of the discussions surrounding the terminology of "Catholic" versus "Roman Catholic" on the talk pages of this website, they represent the facts at the crux of this issue:
So, what's the solution? I will list a series of proposals for discussion. Please feel free to agree with some and disagree with others. This is simply about creating a clearer, more wieldable precedent that will be serve as a SOP for this Wikiproject's articles.
Preemptively addressing some of the criticisms frequently brought up:
If you are even only cursorily involved in this Wikiproject’s articles or care about accuracy, precision, and anti-edit-warring, this is your opportunity to have a lasting impact on Wikipedia and the public understanding of one of the most wide-reaching topics around. Thanks ~ Pbritti ( talk) 00:28, 8 November 2021 (UTC)
Here is the ngram Manabimasu ( talk) 06:48, 2 March 2022 (UTC)
The following suggestion is not Wp:commonname but WP:IAR. For the example, look at Baghdad. Two sources Gcatholic and Catholic-hierarchy may not give the same name. Since Latin is the eccclesiastical language of the church. Both sources will have the same latin name. Suggestion - Use the English translation of the Latin name
Better yet source is Annuario Pontifico, the notizie being the predecessor. Anyone know if the AP is in English? Thoughts? Manabimasu ( talk) 06:48, 2 March 2022 (UTC)
There is a new RfC open at Talk:Shroud of Turin#Request for comment on lead which is relevant to this project. Instaurare ( talk) 06:41, 25 April 2022 (UTC)
On the Italian wikipedia, there is a very interesting/useful page (ok, for Catholic geeks like me ;-) that has no equivalent on the English wiki (at least not that I've found). Its called Project: Diocese / Nomination monitoring. It basically tracks Bishop nominations until they are installed in their new diocese. Dcheney ( talk) 21:43, 25 April 2022 (UTC)
Thanks, Pbritti!
Dcheney, I’m on mobile rn, but if you get the chance, Google MitreSighter - it might be a good tool in establishing something like this. Maximilian775 ( talk) 21:54, 25 April 2022 (UTC)
The article
Latin Mass seems to serve no purpose. As of now, the article appears to be about 'Use of Latin in Christian liturgy'. The fact the article is called "Latin Mass" excludes Eastern Orthodox despite them being mentioned in the lede without any source to support the claim associated with them (EOrthodox very, very strongly reject the term 'mass' for
divine liturgies). Or is the article only about Catholic liturgical practices?
The AfD does not provide any clear consensus as to what the topic should be. The article seems mostly
WP:SYNTH and often goes out of topic.
The article should be renamed to reflect its topic whathever topic is decided; the current title is too vague.
But the crux is: is this topic really notable? Is there really RSs covering the way Latin is used in Christian liturgies beyond what could be expressed in two lines? Should the article be turned into a DAB? I know of the WP fr article
fr:Latinité du chant grégorien ('Latinity of the Gregorian chant') which had a lot of editing problems a few months ago and likely still has many due to the main author POV-pushing and lacking
WP:COMPETENCE; this article seems to indicate Latin in liturgies was studied scholarly, but again the information there should not be taken at face value.
So, what do you say? What do you think should be done with the
Latin Mass article? Any comment is welcome.
Veverve (
talk) 20:02, 27 April 2022 (UTC)
I have (with the help of others) made a small user script to detect and highlight various links to unreliable sources and predatory journals. Some of you may already be familiar with it, given it is currently the 39th most imported script on Wikipedia. The idea is that it takes something like
John Smith "[https://www.deprecated.com/article Article of things]" ''Deprecated.com''. Accessed 2020-02-14.
)and turns it into something like
It will work on a variety of links, including those from {{ cite web}}, {{ cite journal}} and {{ doi}}.
The script is mostly based on WP:RSPSOURCES, WP:NPPSG and WP:CITEWATCH and a good dose of common sense. I'm always expanding coverage and tweaking the script's logic, so general feedback and suggestions to expand coverage to other unreliable sources are always welcomed.
Do note that this is not a script to be mindlessly used, and several caveats apply. Details and instructions are available at User:Headbomb/unreliable. Questions, comments and requests can be made at User talk:Headbomb/unreliable.
This is a one time notice and can't be unsubscribed from. Delivered by: MediaWiki message delivery ( talk) 16:01, 29 April 2022 (UTC)
Hello. What do you think should be done with the "Extraordinary form" redirects?
Extraordinary form of the Roman Rite,
Extraordinary Form of the Roman Rite,
Extraordinary Form,
Extraordinary form currently all redirect to
Summorum Pontificum. Whatever you believe those four redirects should point to, it must be noted that:
Any feedback is welcome. The current target is not bad, so there is no rush to take any decision, so feel free to speak your mind. Whatever decision is taken - if a decision is taken at all -, all four links should target the same WP article. Veverve ( talk) 02:29, 29 March 2022 (UTC)
@ Jdcompguy: So you mean an article on the use of the extroardinary form as established by SP - i.e. the John XXIII missal and pre-Vatican II Roman Ritual - by communities in communion with the Holy See, while thoses dispositions lasted (2007-2021)? I see two problems:
So, on the expression and its meaning post-Traditionis custodes, maybe we should wait for the Holy See to clear things up, or for a clear academic consensus to be established. Risks of OR or WP:SYNTH are quite significant I feel. In any case, feel free to make a draft and collect the data while it is still fresh and easy to find in case the article gets created. What do you think? Veverve ( talk) 17:08, 30 March 2022 (UTC)
the terminology for the topic is all over the place: typical for this WProject, sadly 😕. Why are there so few recent Catholic dictionaries when you need them the most? Veverve ( talk) 12:02, 3 May 2022 (UTC)
Hi, I created the following template:
Thank you for your recent contributions to one of Wikipedia's Catholic-related articles. Given the interest you've expressed by your edits, have you considered joining
WikiProject Catholicism? We are a group of editors dedicated to improving the overall quality of Wikipedia's Catholicism-related content. If you would like to join, simply add your name to the
list of members. We also have a
to-do list and other
things to do that might interest you as well.
If you have any questions, don't hesitate to ask at the project talk page. We look forward to working with you in the future! Peaceray ( talk) 19:26, 9 May 2022 (UTC) |
When used as {{subst:WP:CATHOLICISM/Invite|~~~~}}
, it will also add a header, WikiProject Catholicism Invitation.
You can see instructions for its use at: WP:CATHOLICISM/Invite. Please let me know if I should include it at Wikipedia:WikiProject Catholicism#Templates. Please also make any necessary adjustments to the template. Peaceray ( talk) 19:26, 9 May 2022 (UTC)
I have nominated Maximus the Confessor for a featured article review here. Please join the discussion on whether this article meets featured article criteria. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. If substantial concerns are not addressed during the review period, the article will be moved to the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Delist" the article's featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. Extraordinary Writ ( talk) 06:33, 13 May 2022 (UTC)
There is an AfD discussion now open for the article The OC wall calendar, an article that is adjacent to this WikiProject. ~ Pbritti ( talk) 16:21, 31 May 2022 (UTC)
Hello all, just a quick notice that there has been a heavy POV push in several articles regarding universal resurrection (inexistance of Hell). It was a fringe view held by maybe 4 or 5 Church Fathers (out of hundreds) but is depicted as the belief of the "majority of Early Church". See: Apocatastasis, Christian universalism, Origen, Gregory of Nyssa, and related articles. In fact the Apocatastasis article must be re-written almost in whole, I have left some comments on its talk page. Please take a look. -- El Huinca ( talk) 22:58, 3 June 2022 (UTC)
In light of Praedicate Evangelium having taken effect, the "Roman Curia sidebar" needs some attention. I have no idea how to even locate the source for it! Dcheney ( talk) 20:00, 5 June 2022 (UTC)
There is a merge discussion open at Talk:Orthodox Anglican Communion#Merge discussion for merging these two related entities. ~ Pbritti ( talk) 16:40, 9 June 2022 (UTC)
This article could use some attention from this project. For one, none of the other wikipedia languages use this title, instead calling it the Cattedrale di Santa Maria Assunta. (see it:Cattedrale di Santa Maria Assunta (Brescia) for example). It also appears to have content different from the much better referenced and developed Italian language wiki page on the same subject. It needs some fact checking for errors, better citations, and perhaps re-naming to be consistent with other foreign language wiki pages. Best. 4meter4 ( talk) 21:16, 9 June 2022 (UTC)
There is a discussion in progress about recent additions to Joseph Pearce. Project members are invited to visit the discussion and contribute their views. Chiswick Chap ( talk) 13:30, 13 June 2022 (UTC)
I've read through MOS:HON and believe honorifics are generally not included in the body of an article, however, I do not know the general consensus on Catholic articles and since Our Lady of the Assumption Cathedral (Moncton) is one such article I thought it best to ask if the honorifics included in the article are generally acceptable. I could have just removed it as per WP:BOLD but thought it best to at least contact a related WikiProject on common practice. I found the article through random selection. It appears to be a translation from wp:fr. -- ARose Wolf 14:32, 15 June 2022 (UTC)
Hi editors, my name is KC and I work for Ascension. I've been trying to make some updates to the Ascension article and I'm hoping someone here might be interested as Ascension is the largest Catholic health system in the world. I'd love some feedback on my latest request. I won't make any changes due to my COI, but I hope I can offer some resources and wording suggestions. Please let me know what you think! KC at Ascension ( talk) 22:21, 15 June 2022 (UTC)
There is currently a discussion at Talk:Papal primacy about whether to remove or retain the Papal primacy#Opposition arguments from Church Councils section. The thread is removed a section.
I am at loggerheads with what appears to be a single-purpose IP editor. I am not saying that I am in the right & would acquiese to any consensus. We need help with expertise in the matter or someone who is fluent in reading Latin. In the thread there are two links of unvetted Worldcat records for online sources that are in Latin.
Thanks! Peaceray ( talk) 00:10, 16 June 2022 (UTC)
Hello, I am asking for input on a new parameter for {{ Infobox church}} and have opened a discussion at Template talk:Infobox church#Addition of ecclesiastical region. Please come and give your thoughts on the matter. Your input is welcome! Vesuvio14 ( talk) 12:11, 16 June 2022 (UTC)
Just the usual warning: the 21 cardinals on the list today will not become cardinals until the ceremony on 27 August 2022. It is appropriate for a note to be added to their wiki articles that they will be created cardinals on that date. Dcheney ( talk) 11:32, 29 May 2022 (UTC)
Hi, is there anyone here who could cast an eye on the way that the medieval Catholic view of Astrology is presented in that article? I am trying to approach it from a history of thought angle, but am completely out of my depth when it comes to Aquinas and other theologians. Many thanks if anyone with an understanding of medieval Catholic thought could come past. Itsmejudith ( talk) 09:40, 17 June 2022 (UTC)
See here. Veverve ( talk) 08:36, 19 June 2022 (UTC)
There is currently a discussion at Template talk:infobox diocese about whether to add Episcopal conference of a diocese to country or add a new parameter altogether. The thread is Episcopal conference.
Please feel free to contribute to this discussion, thought I ought to bring it to your attention! Vesuvio14 ( talk) 14:17, 20 June 2022 (UTC)
Please participate in this AfD discussion regarding the Anglican Orthodox Southern Episcopal Church. ~ Pbritti ( talk) 15:13, 20 June 2022 (UTC)
As noted early by @ Dcheney four dicasteries have been merged into two dicasteries under PE. What is Wikiproject Catholicism's policy for retaining articles for older extinct departments of the Curia? (i.e. should Congregation for the Evangelization of Peoples be retained for historical purposes (as I imagine Pontifical Council for Promoting the New Evangelization surely will be), with a new article for the new dicastery, or should it simply be renamed Dicastery for Evangelization, as most of the former Congregation articles are? - same question and logic for "Education & Culture") Magnus Aurelius Cassiodorus Senator ( talk) 19:30, 6 June 2022 (UTC)
Indirect abortion is in need of more specific sources. The journal "The Linacre Quarterly" I have found to have self-identified to be a catholic perspective. The current article is lacking specificity of indirect techniques and cases of indirect abortion in relation to medical field. 64.53.212.155 ( talk) 04:06, 28 June 2022 (UTC)
Besides the original Italian, it is now available in English, Arabic, Portuguese, and Spanish. Links on English Wikipedia should probably be updated to this version. Dcheney ( talk) 15:02, 30 June 2022 (UTC)
Does anyone have any sources that might establish notability for this Marian prayer, As a Child I Loved You? Despite potentially having the requisite sourcing, seems to have very, very limited notability. If nobody has anything in the next couple days, I'm going to propose an AfD. ~ Pbritti ( talk) 22:17, 22 June 2022 (UTC)
@ Zfish118 and Manannan67: The article deletion discussion is open here. ~ Pbritti ( talk) 21:00, 13 July 2022 (UTC)
Greetings, folks! @ Horse Eye's Back has decided to trawl through a rather large swath of articles, including those covered by this project, and tag them for notability. He isn't participating in discussion, raising any particular issues on the talk pages, nor has ever participated in constructive editing there, so I consider these to be instances of WP:DRIVEBY tagging. I feel it is counterproductive for an editor to go through dozens, hundreds of articles to merely tag them, and even revert editors who disagree. Elizium23 ( talk) 16:28, 14 July 2022 (UTC)
User:Elizium23 Agree. Manannan67 ( talk) 07:17, 16 July 2022 (UTC)
What is the correct phrase for the traditional Benedictine motto: " Pray and work" or "Ora et labora"? Feel free to chime in. Manannan67 ( talk) 20:23, 16 July 2022 (UTC)
Can this get some expansion? Peter Ormond 💬 20:13, 24 July 2022 (UTC)
There is currently a discussion which you might want to participate in at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard#Epiphyllumlover additions of polygamist information, which especially concerns the Respect for Marriage Act and articles relating to it, including Salvatore Cordileone.-- Epiphyllumlover ( talk) 20:04, 28 July 2022 (UTC)
A page move discussion has been opened at Talk:Society of Jesus#Requested move 31 July 2022 – Zfish118⋉ talk 00:49, 31 July 2022 (UTC)
Thanks for flagging. Jahaza ( talk) 01:06, 31 July 2022 (UTC)
Catholic Worker Tom Cornell has died. Any help with the article would be appreciated. Thank you, Thriley ( talk) 04:35, 3 August 2022 (UTC)
For the reasons explained at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of post-nominal letters (Vatican City), I've nominated the article for deletion.-- Jahaza ( talk) 04:54, 4 August 2022 (UTC)
Greetings! It seems that we could arrive at more WP:CONSISTENT article titles for papal visits.
Greetings! It has come to my attention that there are many articles in this project which we should rename. MOS:ENBETWEEN specifies that an en-dash "–" should be used to join two geographical terms. For example, List of Catholic dioceses in Italy indicates many territories which have been merged and therefore have compound names. The ones which currently contain a hypen "-" would need to be moved to a new name, and slightly edited for consistency. MOS:ENBETWEEN is more nuanced, so I don't expect that every single article could be renamed. @ Dcheney, others: any idea how we could identify the lot, and file a WP:BOTREQ or define a WP:JWB job for these? Elizium23 ( talk) 00:06, 25 July 2022 (UTC)
The redirect Sedevacantist Antipope and a few very similar redirects which currently target Conclavism are under discussion at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2022 August 21#Sedevacantist Antipope. Tartar Torte 13:16, 21 August 2022 (UTC)
There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Franciscus Renatus Boussen#Requested move 7 August 2022 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. – robertsky ( talk) 10:36, 22 August 2022 (UTC)
There is a Featured Article Save Award nomination at Wikipedia talk:Featured article review/Joan of Arc/archive2. Please join the discussion to recognize and celebrate editors who helped assure this article would retain its featured status. SandyGeorgia ( Talk) 14:38, 4 September 2022 (UTC)
Wikipedia:Reliable Sources/Noticeboard has an RFC for regarding the reliability of New Advent, which is within the scope of this WikiProject, as a source on Wikipedia. A discussion is taking place. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments on the discussion page. Thank you. — Red-tailed hawk (nest) 17:18, 17 September 2022 (UTC)
This is just a casual reminder for those on this WikiProject to set Wikipedia:WikiProject Deletion sorting/Christianity to your watchlist! Backlogs on relisted AfDs are all too common and commenting on just one AfD a month will substantially reduce this! Thanks! ~ Pbritti ( talk) 20:42, 19 September 2022 (UTC)
An RFC concerning papal intros is being held. Input there, would be welcomed. GoodDay ( talk) 08:20, 22 September 2022 (UTC)
There is a requested move discussion at Talk:William Mulvey#Requested move 25 September 2022 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. Sammi Brie (she/her • t • c) 00:14, 25 September 2022 (UTC)
There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Dissent from Catholic teaching on homosexuality#Requested move 17 September 2022 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. ASUKITE 18:38, 28 September 2022 (UTC)
As I was making edits to the Catholic Church article, I was looking for a good summary article of the various Eastern-rite liturgies, and could find none other than a few bare lists. This would be a valuable article to have, even if its not much list with a paragraph or two for each rite, describing when/where it originated and any distinguishing characteristics. I may start one, but if anyone is ambiguous you are welcome to as well. – Zfish118⋉ talk 16:17, 24 September 2022 (UTC)
Consider this something of a long-lead notice of my intention to create two pages to supplant Catholic particular churches and liturgical rites: one for "Christian liturgical rites" without a singularly Catholic focus (and exclusionary of Masonic rites etc.) and "Eastern Catholic liturgy" to cover the terminology, history, and forms of that topic. From there, I hope we can abridge the aforementioned extant article to cover the topic of particular churches more exclusively. ~ Pbritti ( talk) 19:25, 27 September 2022 (UTC)
@ Zfish118:, @ Elizium23:, and @ Pbritti:, a summary article on Christian liturgy is a very good idea, the demarcation of Christian liturgy as "Eastern" or "Western" really is artificial and somewhat arbitrary, and it varies with perspective. Several of the ancient oriental churches would regard the churches of the Orthodox Communion as part of western Christianity, and thus would regard the Byzantine Rite as a western rite rather than an eastern rite. Thus, the summary article should encompass ALL Christian rites and uses. "Christian liturgical rites and uses" or "Christian liturgy" might be possible titles for such an article.
And yes, the discussion should include the liturgical practices of various Protestant bodies. Norm1979 ( talk) 17:11, 3 October 2022 (UTC)
Is Santa Maria de Monserrato (est 1889) the same as "the Abbey of Our Lady of Montserrat" also known as São Bento Monastery (est 1890)? Coincidental names? founded within a year of each other by Benedictines in the same city. (Most of the Santa Maria page looks like outdated CE material; if so, that could be trimmed and moved to the Brazilian Congregation article.) Please respond to Talk:Santa Maria de Monserrato. Thank you very much. Manannan67 ( talk) 04:18, 13 October 2022 (UTC)
As this family has ties to Christian/Catholic history, editors may wish to comment here. All opinions are welcome. 4meter4 ( talk) 03:47, 19 October 2022 (UTC)
Hello all, I feel like this discussion may have been had before but I cannot find it so will ask now. On pages such as dioceses, should the metropolitan parameter be filled with the metropolitan archdiocese or metropolitan archbishop? I have seen both cases across different articles, as well as some which use the archdiocese's main city. Would be good to get a conclusion on this. Thanks in advance, Vesuvio14 ( talk) 11:03, 13 October 2022 (UTC)
Comment Is the name of the Metropolitan Archbishop relevant in mos diocesan articles? I could anticipate a limited number of cases where this might be relevant. It would seem to me the parameter is ambiguous and might be revised into two explicit "metropolitan archbishop" and "metropolitan archdiocese" parameters. That way, when it's relevant, it's consistently used. – Zfish118⋉ talk 15:29, 15 October 2022 (UTC)
Hi Wikiproject!
This article follows the format and structure set up by predecessors, however things on the ground are different now. Firstly, we cannot add "future beatifications" to articles like this because of WP:CRYSTAL. You can discuss an upcoming event in article prose at the base article but a list like this needs to be restricted to verifiable events only.
Now, as I mentioned on its talk page, Pope Francis isn't really beatifying anyone directly anymore. He signs off and then the beatification ceremony is held locally. That means not in Vatican City, not in Rome, mostly not in Italy, etc. So the article title is rather misleading: Pope Francis does not participate in these beatification ceremonies other than sending out the decree.
I think that this is an opportune time for us to consider how we structure these articles (think about also the venerated and canonized people as well.) Perhaps one article per year, rather than per pope? List of people beatified in the Catholic Church in 2022 for example. A navbox can link them together and they would typically be a good manageable size. It wouldn't matter who is Pope or who is signing decrees. People could be listed month-by-month or by region-continent?
And for Pete's sake, can we please add reliable sources for these? Elizium23 ( talk) 13:24, 23 October 2022 (UTC)
You are invited to join the discussion at Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2022 October 23. Elizium23 ( talk) 05:56, 24 October 2022 (UTC)
You are invited to join the discussion at Talk:Criticism of the Catholic Church § Ordination of women to the priesthood. Elizium23 ( talk) 16:33, 12 November 2022 (UTC)
A search failed me. Can anyone remember a prior discussion we had about allowing flag icons in diocesan infoboxes? Per MOS:INFOBOXFLAG I was able to justify this as dioceses are "human geography" and "administrative divisions" but I'm not sure we had a solid consensus or a widespread discussion on it. It may have been restricted to a couple article talk pages. Elizium23 ( talk) 17:22, 22 November 2022 (UTC)
An editor has requested for Peter Forster (bishop) to be moved to another page. Since you had some involvement with Peter Forster (bishop), you might want to participate in the move discussion (if you have not already done so). Elizium23 ( talk) 09:26, 29 November 2022 (UTC)
An editor has requested for Sexual abuse scandal in the Catholic archdiocese of Chicago to be moved to another page. Since you had some involvement with Sexual abuse scandal in the Catholic archdiocese of Chicago, you might want to participate in the move discussion (if you have not already done so). Elizium23 ( talk) 11:03, 29 November 2022 (UTC)
You are invited to join the discussion at Talk:Solemn Mass § Specific term of art. Elizium23 ( talk) 22:39, 8 December 2022 (UTC)
I just finished the article on Eastern Catholic liturgy. Sorry that it took much longer than I had hoped, but I wanted to balance it being a survey article with the need for a comprehensive article covering Eastern Catholic liturgies as a unified topic. Modifications are welcome. On a related note, is there a way we could incorporate this overarching article into Template:Particular churches sui iuris? ~ Pbritti ( talk) 19:21, 9 December 2022 (UTC)
Recently an editor redirected Frank Bayard, the current Grand Master of the Teutonic Order. Is the position of Grand Master of the order not notable enough itself to justify an article for Bayard? Thriley ( talk) 04:16, 14 December 2022 (UTC)
See [2] Horse Eye's Back has posted a list questioning the reliability of what appear to be some often used sources -without advising a group most likely to possibly use them. Some may be reliable, some may not be. Different people will have different opinions, which is why I bring this here. I don't use Catholic Online, but I like New Advent for its access to CE and Ante-Nicene fathers etc. He, of course, does not consider CE reliable. A bit outdated in some respects, but not too bad on a good deal of standard stuff. This comes after a campaign of WP:DRIVEBY cn tags for both articles bearing a CE template indicating where the info came from, as well as, things that clearly fall under WP:SKYBLUE. This was followed by a continuing spate of notability tags (see above). As a wise woman once said, "AGF is not a suicide pact." Manannan67 ( talk) 08:14, 14 September 2022 (UTC)
Hi everyone, I wrote my first BLP (first article entirely, in fact), today — it's a local auxiliary bishop.
If you have a minute, could you take a look? I'm concerned in particular about using catholic-hierarchy.org as a source.
Draft:Joseph Dabrowski Ethamn ( talk) 07:04, 20 November 2022 (UTC)
Also, when you hyperlink the diocese which a bishop is affiliated with, link to the page for the Catholic diocese rather than the secular city; IE " Diocese of London, Ontario" rather than "Diocese of London, Ontario Thanks for your contribution!
Hello, I started a draft for J. Harding Fisher, an American Jesuit. Can anyone assist with sourcing? Thriley ( talk) 05:59, 16 December 2022 (UTC)
Elizium23 ( talk) 11:50, 21 December 2022 (UTC)
I ran across these examples this week and noticed that neither article mentions the Catholic Church or any other church affiliation! Now, ecumenical and Reformed monasteries are not unheard of, so I'm hesitant to claim them all in the name of Rome just yet. I'm also not sure how many articles are affected - is this the tip of the iceberg, or a few isolated cases? Elizium23 ( talk) 04:56, 22 December 2022 (UTC)
The former pope's health has taken a sharp turn according to the Holy See. I would note that in the event of his passing, there is certain to be a nomination at In the News. Standards for articles being linked on the main page tend to be quite high, with a particular emphasis on referencing. - Ad Orientem ( talk) 15:27, 28 December 2022 (UTC)
I am hoping some of those involved here will chime in the discussion so that we can ditch this extra article that serves no real unique purpose. ~ Pbritti ( talk) 21:00, 29 December 2022 (UTC)
Carlo d'Ippolito di Sant'Ippolito, grand commander of the Sovereign Military Order of Malta from 2011 to 2014, has died. Any help with the article would be appreciated. Thriley ( talk) 02:00, 31 December 2022 (UTC)
An editor has started Draft:Death and Funeral of Pope Benedict XVI (actually it was originally in the mainspace, but I draftified it). I imagine there might also be others working on a similar article. Perhaps some of the members of this WikiProject could help out with this draft and maybe even figure out how many competing drafts there are out this about this topic. If there are more than one, then perhaps the best of the bunch should be kept and the others merged into it to avoid duplicate articles suddenly appearing. -- Marchjuly ( talk) 10:49, 31 December 2022 (UTC)