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For some reason this page devotes a section to a restatement of WP:IAR, which I removed yesterday since it has nothing to do with DAB pages. Editor PamD put it back with the explanation that "it's a useful reminder that dab pages are there to help readers".
This is not at all true. Quite the contrary, it wastes the time of every reader who gets that far in the document. A conscientious reader will go through the section, then re-read it trying to figure out what the relevance is to DAB pages, and finally realize that there is none. Just because IAR applies to all Wiki pages, it doesn't belong on the every Help page. Dan Bloch ( talk) 22:08, 26 January 2024 (UTC)
MOS:DABCOMMON says that if there is a single WP:primary topic, to put that by itself at the top of the dab page. But what about when no single topic is primary but one topic is the most common among the various topics? See, for example, Twister and This version of Jump. I was under the impression we should only format a dab page that way if there is a dominant primary topic (i.e., if the dab page is not at the base name). So I changed the format of Jump as shown in the current version [converted to a permalink for posterity].
Should we change item 1 of the instruction to say something like "The primary or single most common topic, if there is one, should be placed at the top."
Should my change to the format of Jump be reverted? Should the format of Twister be changed?
— BarrelProof ( talk) 05:13, 21 February 2024 (UTC)
In cases where a small number of main topics are significantly more likely to be the reader's target, several of the most common meanings may be placed at the top, with other meanings below. See Mojave or Mercury for examples of this.
In cases where a small number of main topics are significantly more likely to be the reader's target, several of the most common meanings may be placed at the top...implies that the rule is only for cases with more than one such topic.
The primary or single most common topic, if there is one,..., as the OP suggests, implies that the new text would look the same as the primary topic case ("A school is an institution for learning"), which fails on two grounds: the wikilink ( school) only succeeds because it's the primary topic; and additionally we would typically want the wording to be "most commonly refers to", not "is".
This issue also affects Foo (disambiguation) pages. For example, Apple (disambiguation) sensibly has a short list at the top because, when the reader types "Apple", we feed them the fruit which is good for them rather than Apple Inc. which most of them were actually looking for. Although three common topics are listed in this case, it's quite feasible that there might be just one common topic, even when a different topic is primary. Certes ( talk) 20:03, 22 February 2024 (UTC)
So, some dispute with an revert-warring anon has broken out, at the DAB page
Hustling
Hustler. There's a line item there that has long read:
following our normal practice of using the term that is the disambiguation page as the line-opening word. The anon absolutely insists on changing this to:
though this does not have clear pertinence to the disambiguation Hustling (and if kept in this form would be moved to the "See also" section as a related word). The anon is badly misinterpreting MOS:DAB, but will not take no for an answer, at least from one party (and acuses of "vandalism" if challenged), so it will probably require multiple parties' involvement to settle this silliness. (PS: Their version also has the problem that it changes the definition to refer to games when the term is primarily used with regard to the related but distinct sphere of sports). — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼 21:23, 21 February 2024 (UTC)
At IPA, User:Joy is insisting on sorting the "commonly refers to" list according to the clickstream data rather than alphabetical. Is there a guideline that supports doing this? Has there been discussion on sorting order on DAB pages? Nardog ( talk) 02:03, 10 March 2024 (UTC)
Please express an expert opinion in Talk:Qasr#Agreed: ONLY places called solely Qasr to be listed. The issue is whether two-part names, such as "proper_name + object_type", e.g., [[<something> Prison]] and the likes, belong to [[<something> (disambiguation)]]. - Altenmann >talk 21:00, 15 March 2024 (UTC)
The redirect Mos:Dp has been listed at redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2024 April 25 § Mos:Dp until a consensus is reached. Utopes ( talk / cont) 21:50, 25 April 2024 (UTC)
The redirect Mos:DP has been listed at redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2024 April 25 § Mos:DP until a consensus is reached. Utopes ( talk / cont) 21:51, 25 April 2024 (UTC)
The redirect Mos:Dab has been listed at redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2024 April 25 § Mos:Dab until a consensus is reached. Utopes ( talk / cont) 21:51, 25 April 2024 (UTC)
The redirect Mos:DAB has been listed at redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2024 April 25 § Mos:DAB until a consensus is reached. Utopes ( talk / cont) 21:51, 25 April 2024 (UTC)
Manual of Style | ||||||||||
|
Disambiguation | ||||
|
Archives: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40, 41, 42, 43, 44 |
|
Archives
|
|
This page has archives. Sections older than 90 days may be automatically archived by Lowercase sigmabot III. |
For some reason this page devotes a section to a restatement of WP:IAR, which I removed yesterday since it has nothing to do with DAB pages. Editor PamD put it back with the explanation that "it's a useful reminder that dab pages are there to help readers".
This is not at all true. Quite the contrary, it wastes the time of every reader who gets that far in the document. A conscientious reader will go through the section, then re-read it trying to figure out what the relevance is to DAB pages, and finally realize that there is none. Just because IAR applies to all Wiki pages, it doesn't belong on the every Help page. Dan Bloch ( talk) 22:08, 26 January 2024 (UTC)
MOS:DABCOMMON says that if there is a single WP:primary topic, to put that by itself at the top of the dab page. But what about when no single topic is primary but one topic is the most common among the various topics? See, for example, Twister and This version of Jump. I was under the impression we should only format a dab page that way if there is a dominant primary topic (i.e., if the dab page is not at the base name). So I changed the format of Jump as shown in the current version [converted to a permalink for posterity].
Should we change item 1 of the instruction to say something like "The primary or single most common topic, if there is one, should be placed at the top."
Should my change to the format of Jump be reverted? Should the format of Twister be changed?
— BarrelProof ( talk) 05:13, 21 February 2024 (UTC)
In cases where a small number of main topics are significantly more likely to be the reader's target, several of the most common meanings may be placed at the top, with other meanings below. See Mojave or Mercury for examples of this.
In cases where a small number of main topics are significantly more likely to be the reader's target, several of the most common meanings may be placed at the top...implies that the rule is only for cases with more than one such topic.
The primary or single most common topic, if there is one,..., as the OP suggests, implies that the new text would look the same as the primary topic case ("A school is an institution for learning"), which fails on two grounds: the wikilink ( school) only succeeds because it's the primary topic; and additionally we would typically want the wording to be "most commonly refers to", not "is".
This issue also affects Foo (disambiguation) pages. For example, Apple (disambiguation) sensibly has a short list at the top because, when the reader types "Apple", we feed them the fruit which is good for them rather than Apple Inc. which most of them were actually looking for. Although three common topics are listed in this case, it's quite feasible that there might be just one common topic, even when a different topic is primary. Certes ( talk) 20:03, 22 February 2024 (UTC)
So, some dispute with an revert-warring anon has broken out, at the DAB page
Hustling
Hustler. There's a line item there that has long read:
following our normal practice of using the term that is the disambiguation page as the line-opening word. The anon absolutely insists on changing this to:
though this does not have clear pertinence to the disambiguation Hustling (and if kept in this form would be moved to the "See also" section as a related word). The anon is badly misinterpreting MOS:DAB, but will not take no for an answer, at least from one party (and acuses of "vandalism" if challenged), so it will probably require multiple parties' involvement to settle this silliness. (PS: Their version also has the problem that it changes the definition to refer to games when the term is primarily used with regard to the related but distinct sphere of sports). — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼 21:23, 21 February 2024 (UTC)
At IPA, User:Joy is insisting on sorting the "commonly refers to" list according to the clickstream data rather than alphabetical. Is there a guideline that supports doing this? Has there been discussion on sorting order on DAB pages? Nardog ( talk) 02:03, 10 March 2024 (UTC)
Please express an expert opinion in Talk:Qasr#Agreed: ONLY places called solely Qasr to be listed. The issue is whether two-part names, such as "proper_name + object_type", e.g., [[<something> Prison]] and the likes, belong to [[<something> (disambiguation)]]. - Altenmann >talk 21:00, 15 March 2024 (UTC)
The redirect Mos:Dp has been listed at redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2024 April 25 § Mos:Dp until a consensus is reached. Utopes ( talk / cont) 21:50, 25 April 2024 (UTC)
The redirect Mos:DP has been listed at redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2024 April 25 § Mos:DP until a consensus is reached. Utopes ( talk / cont) 21:51, 25 April 2024 (UTC)
The redirect Mos:Dab has been listed at redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2024 April 25 § Mos:Dab until a consensus is reached. Utopes ( talk / cont) 21:51, 25 April 2024 (UTC)
The redirect Mos:DAB has been listed at redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2024 April 25 § Mos:DAB until a consensus is reached. Utopes ( talk / cont) 21:51, 25 April 2024 (UTC)