This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Linking to external harassment page. |
|
Archives: 1, 2, 3 |
Does this current version have consensus behind it? I'm at least ok with it given David Gerard's recent edits. I don't consider it ideal, but it seems like a reasonable compromise at this point in time. JoshuaZ ( talk) 18:24, 26 November 2007 (UTC)
Looking at this, it still seems to dance around one piece of problem behavior. It seems to me that the most straightforward case is that where the website at the other end adds something "offensive" and someone erases a general link or one to some other content on the same site as a response to the added material. I don't see this really being addressed, except by some generalities that appear to me to endorse such an erasure. Comments? Mangoe 15:07, 30 November 2007 (UTC)
An editor recently posted on his user page a link to an external page solely concerned with hosting disparaging material on a person who is a WP editor. [1] It is not used as a source for anything, and it appears that the editor who added it is aware that it would be perceived as problematic and is doing so to irritate the other editor. How should we proceed in this matter? The proposal calls for posting a notice on ANI, presumably to get a consensus to remove the link. ·:· Will Beback ·:· 04:34, 1 December 2007 (UTC)
Tihs was tagged as rejected, but I removed the tag. It is clear that there is a need for a policy, per multiple ArbCom findings, and we should not allow the refusal of a few to countenance the removal of any attack to derail that process. This needs fixing, not sweeping under the carpet. Guy ( Help!) 19:42, 16 December 2007 (UTC)
What's not clear to me (replying to Guy) is whether we need a new policy, in order to refuse to allow people to derail the maintenance of the encyclopedia. We've always had the power to do that. It's just that we need to start enforcing the policies we've always had. I would note that our enforcement so far has been somewhat inconsistent, and tainted with the appearance that we've based some of our actions on personal offense, and not on sound editorial judgment. If we can get our culture to the point where we know not to bring up personal reasons, then pages such as this one will become unnecessary, and we'll be able to not care what kind of tag it's got on it. - GTBacchus( talk) 19:50, 16 December 2007 (UTC)
What is different from what we do this week from what is in this proposal? How is this proposal not what we are already doing right now? I would like those who do not support this proposal to identify the exact language (and diffs of recent editing if you have them) that they feel deviates from existing practice. Let's fix it if it isn't an accurate statement of existing practice. Whether to make that existing practice an official guideline can be decided later. WAS 4.250 ( talk) 16:47, 17 December 2007 (UTC)
I repointed the shortcut, because it is indeed dead and people citing it should go here instead. J T Price ( talk) 05:33, 28 December 2007 (UTC)
I have a hard time seeing why the list of guideline points doesn't end with "No encyclopedic value". In my opinion, if a link has encyclopedic value, it should be in the encyclopedia. This holds true even if the link (or associated site) happens to criticize/harrass/attack Wikipedians. Superm401 - Talk 03:33, 23 February 2008 (UTC)
Sure, linking to harrasment of wikipedia editors in discussions is the height of incivility, but do we really need to mention articles? I mean, links are covered elsewhere, so if the link truly is of value then why not just link to it? This page says we can anyway, in all honesty this page is completely redundant.-- Patton 123 16:29, 6 December 2008 (UTC)
I've looked through the archives of this talk page, and I can't find an RfC to promote it to guideline status. I don't know if the process was different in 2007, but I'm reverting this to a proposed guideline, as it never seems to have gone through the WP:PROPOSAL procedure. Trout me if I've missed something, but this is a controversial topic, so unilaterally labeling it a guideline goes far beyond WP:BOLD. -- BDD ( talk) 17:58, 20 August 2012 (UTC)
I'm going back and forth with a couple of other editors that a link to the current home of the website Encyclopedia Dramatica can't appear on the article's sidebar, or, I suppose, anywhere within the article, because it happens to be on the spam blacklist. I feel the spirit of this policy should allow a redirect since the purpose of linking to a site that is the subject of an article serves an encyclopedic purpose, regardless of the rather WP:BURO matter of its existence on the blacklist (the article has survived [a record?] 24 WP:AFDs). Is this something we should explain more explicitly in this policy, or is it already covered in WP:SPAM as the link obviously isn't being used for the purposes of spam? -- Kendrick7 talk 02:45, 29 June 2013 (UTC)
I believe this guideline should be expanded to state that there are consequences for engaging in external harassment. Not only is linking to external harassment bad, engaging in external harassment in the first place is wrong. Any editor who does that could be sanctioned here, much the same way a company could sanction any employee who harassed a co-worker off the premises. Jehochman Talk 10:42, 19 July 2013 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Linking to external harassment page. |
|
Archives: 1, 2, 3 |
Does this current version have consensus behind it? I'm at least ok with it given David Gerard's recent edits. I don't consider it ideal, but it seems like a reasonable compromise at this point in time. JoshuaZ ( talk) 18:24, 26 November 2007 (UTC)
Looking at this, it still seems to dance around one piece of problem behavior. It seems to me that the most straightforward case is that where the website at the other end adds something "offensive" and someone erases a general link or one to some other content on the same site as a response to the added material. I don't see this really being addressed, except by some generalities that appear to me to endorse such an erasure. Comments? Mangoe 15:07, 30 November 2007 (UTC)
An editor recently posted on his user page a link to an external page solely concerned with hosting disparaging material on a person who is a WP editor. [1] It is not used as a source for anything, and it appears that the editor who added it is aware that it would be perceived as problematic and is doing so to irritate the other editor. How should we proceed in this matter? The proposal calls for posting a notice on ANI, presumably to get a consensus to remove the link. ·:· Will Beback ·:· 04:34, 1 December 2007 (UTC)
Tihs was tagged as rejected, but I removed the tag. It is clear that there is a need for a policy, per multiple ArbCom findings, and we should not allow the refusal of a few to countenance the removal of any attack to derail that process. This needs fixing, not sweeping under the carpet. Guy ( Help!) 19:42, 16 December 2007 (UTC)
What's not clear to me (replying to Guy) is whether we need a new policy, in order to refuse to allow people to derail the maintenance of the encyclopedia. We've always had the power to do that. It's just that we need to start enforcing the policies we've always had. I would note that our enforcement so far has been somewhat inconsistent, and tainted with the appearance that we've based some of our actions on personal offense, and not on sound editorial judgment. If we can get our culture to the point where we know not to bring up personal reasons, then pages such as this one will become unnecessary, and we'll be able to not care what kind of tag it's got on it. - GTBacchus( talk) 19:50, 16 December 2007 (UTC)
What is different from what we do this week from what is in this proposal? How is this proposal not what we are already doing right now? I would like those who do not support this proposal to identify the exact language (and diffs of recent editing if you have them) that they feel deviates from existing practice. Let's fix it if it isn't an accurate statement of existing practice. Whether to make that existing practice an official guideline can be decided later. WAS 4.250 ( talk) 16:47, 17 December 2007 (UTC)
I repointed the shortcut, because it is indeed dead and people citing it should go here instead. J T Price ( talk) 05:33, 28 December 2007 (UTC)
I have a hard time seeing why the list of guideline points doesn't end with "No encyclopedic value". In my opinion, if a link has encyclopedic value, it should be in the encyclopedia. This holds true even if the link (or associated site) happens to criticize/harrass/attack Wikipedians. Superm401 - Talk 03:33, 23 February 2008 (UTC)
Sure, linking to harrasment of wikipedia editors in discussions is the height of incivility, but do we really need to mention articles? I mean, links are covered elsewhere, so if the link truly is of value then why not just link to it? This page says we can anyway, in all honesty this page is completely redundant.-- Patton 123 16:29, 6 December 2008 (UTC)
I've looked through the archives of this talk page, and I can't find an RfC to promote it to guideline status. I don't know if the process was different in 2007, but I'm reverting this to a proposed guideline, as it never seems to have gone through the WP:PROPOSAL procedure. Trout me if I've missed something, but this is a controversial topic, so unilaterally labeling it a guideline goes far beyond WP:BOLD. -- BDD ( talk) 17:58, 20 August 2012 (UTC)
I'm going back and forth with a couple of other editors that a link to the current home of the website Encyclopedia Dramatica can't appear on the article's sidebar, or, I suppose, anywhere within the article, because it happens to be on the spam blacklist. I feel the spirit of this policy should allow a redirect since the purpose of linking to a site that is the subject of an article serves an encyclopedic purpose, regardless of the rather WP:BURO matter of its existence on the blacklist (the article has survived [a record?] 24 WP:AFDs). Is this something we should explain more explicitly in this policy, or is it already covered in WP:SPAM as the link obviously isn't being used for the purposes of spam? -- Kendrick7 talk 02:45, 29 June 2013 (UTC)
I believe this guideline should be expanded to state that there are consequences for engaging in external harassment. Not only is linking to external harassment bad, engaging in external harassment in the first place is wrong. Any editor who does that could be sanctioned here, much the same way a company could sanction any employee who harassed a co-worker off the premises. Jehochman Talk 10:42, 19 July 2013 (UTC)