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Just wondering if I could get some input on the following articles: Lara Croft and Maniac Mansion. The discussions are:
Maniac Mansion has been under A-class review for a while now, and I would certainly appreciate some input to finish things up. Lara Croft did not pass it's recent FAC, and one reviewer was kind enough to provide feedback afterward, but we are approaching it from different angles. Outside pairs of eyes would help bring these to a conclusion. Thanks. ( Guyinblack25 talk 15:15, 28 June 2011 (UTC))
I've been doing some researching about the company and found some information to be innaccurate. It appears Encore, the North American distributor of their titles in North America has discontinued many of their products sold in the USA. So the info in the article may be somewhat obsolete. JasonHockeyGuy ( talk) 06:49, 29 June 2011 (UTC)
[1] - For anyone to add to articles. - New Age Retro Hippie (talk) (contributions) 10:29, 29 June 2011 (UTC)
Hi everyone-
Just so you know, it has been one month since I nominated the article List of songs in Rock Band 3 for featured list status, and there still hasn't been any substantial input apart from the layout notes and other comments from the FLC directors. The article isn't a terribly long, and any input (positive or negative) would be greatly appreciated!
Thanks! – Drilnoth ( T • C • L) 14:18, 29 June 2011 (UTC)
Which is better? [2] or [3]? See also discussion at User talk:Thumperward#Planescape: Torment. – Drilnoth ( T • C • L) 13:28, 24 June 2011 (UTC)
I always cite plot sections with in-game quotes and sources close to the original material, but I might add that this has caused problems on our two current featured article nominations ( Terra Nova: Strike Force Centauri and Resident Evil 2) because it implies a heavy reliance on primary sources for the whole article. Prime Blue ( talk) 19:34, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
Suggest to add some additional lines to the {{
Video game release}} template to make multiple-region release dates and publishers easier to add. So far, we always had to insert these manually, that is, simultaneous releases in North America and Europe had to be {{vgrelease|[[North America|NA]] / [[PAL region|PAL]]|January 1, 2000}}
. Suggest to replace this with a simple "NAPAL" field for automatic formatting. Would not change the usage of the current template, just makes these special cases easier and faster to insert. Addition to template is in the page source.
Prime Blue (
talk) 21:02, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
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I had requested a peer review for Kirby (character). One of the suggestions included "contact(ing) the most relevant WikiProject" for help in making the article a good article once again. Is there anyone here willing to help out with this? -- Newimagekirby ( talk) 10:50, 30 June 2011 (UTC)
Should articles of released video games be added to categories that the game will belong to in the future? For example, should Minecraft or Limbo be categorized as Category:Xbox 360 games and Category:Windows games respectively even though they have not yet been ported to those platforms (announced in RS though). — HELLKNOWZ ▎ TALK 17:50, 30 June 2011 (UTC)
For those who may be interested, a user is rapidly tagging all "invalid Fair Use rationale" images, including many covered by this project. If you'd like to rescue pictures for video games, take a look at The ongoing tagging, (he's up to 'F') there are video games' articles on there; I'm trying to catch as many as I can, but extra sets of eyes & fixers would be appreciated! Skier Dude ( talk) 00:55, 1 July 2011 (UTC)
On a related note someone has been uploading a bunch of video game logos to Commons. I'm not sure if Template:PD-textlogo applies to all them. Someone more expert on the subject could look at them: [4]. -- Mika1h ( talk) 12:40, 1 July 2011 (UTC)
The article Arvale: Journey of Illusion has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern:
While all contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, content or articles may be deleted for any of several reasons.
You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the {{proposed deletion/dated}}
notice, but please explain why in your
edit summary or on
the article's talk page.
Please consider improving the article to address the issues raised. Removing {{proposed deletion/dated}}
will stop the
proposed deletion process, but other
deletion processes exist. The
speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and
articles for deletion allows discussion to reach
consensus for deletion.
Bulwersator (
talk) 09:51, 4 July 2011 (UTC)
Whipped this up in my sandbox last night; basically some slight cosmetic improvements to the barnstar design (actually, fairly radical compared to the rest of the barnstar formats). Basically, the wikitable has been replaced with a simple div and span tag, and more regular wikicode is used; also, I changed "VG Barnstar" to "WikiProject Video games Barnstar". Finally, being a fan of rounded borders and box shadows, I implemented both of those to give a better look. Any thoughts before I implement it in Template:Barnstar VG? – MuZemike 20:14, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
I went ahead and implemented the improvements to Template:Barnstar VG; we can make additional changes as needed. While on the topic, is there a reason why we have Template:The Gamer's Barnstar, which is identical to Template:Barnstar VG? Should we redirect that one? (Also note that I just redirected Template:WikiProject Nintendo Barnstar to Template:The Nintendo Barnstar for the exact same reason.) – MuZemike 03:32, 30 June 2011 (UTC)
I see a slight problem, and that's the proliferation of those templates (border-radius and the other) embedded in the CSS. Might run afoul of substing guidelines (as I recall barnstars are substed, no?). Might be easier just to include the CSS directly rather than as templates. -- Izno ( talk) 05:48, 30 June 2011 (UTC)
The newsletter is already pretty much ready to go, and I can send it out with my bot sometime today. If somebody wants to take a last check over the "feature" and "featured editor" parts on the draft page before I go ahead and create those subpages, that would be great. – MuZemike 06:41, 1 July 2011 (UTC)
I apologize for making so many of these. Anyway, I'd like a few opinions on whether or not to exclude an article from my work-in-progress Looking Glass Studios games topic. The article in question is Jane's Attack Squadron, a game that experienced an extremely convoluted development cycle. Until recently, I didn't think it would be necessary to include it. However, I read up on it a little during the writing of Flight Unlimited, and now I'm no longer sure what to do. This section of Flight Unlimited briefly summarizes what I'm talking about. Basically, the game was developed on the side by Looking Glass for something like 5 years, only to be canceled near completion because of the company's closure. At some point, another company (Mad Doc), which contained a few former LGS members, picked up the game and "finished" it. A publisher with no previous connection to the game or company, Xicat, then released it to universal derision in 2002.
Should this qualify as a "collaboration", as with System Shock 2, or did the game officially pass out of the realm of Looking Glass? I honestly can't decide. Any advice would be great. JimmyBlackwing ( talk) 07:28, 5 July 2011 (UTC)
Could everyone please put in your vote for merging New Super Mario Bros. Mii into New Super Mario Bros. Wii over at this talk page? This is a very short page that could work fine being merged. -- Nathan2055 talk 00:23, 6 July 2011 (UTC)
Could members of this project give their opinions on this AfD, couldn't find a notability requirement for computer games, if we have some could you also point me in the direction of it. Mo ainm ~Talk 22:30, 6 July 2011 (UTC)
I just noticed the project has made 500 Good Articles. Hooray for progress! GamerPro64 22:14, 6 July 2011 (UTC)
Plus the A-class articles (which there are 39). GamerPro64 22:27, 6 July 2011 (UTC)
While working on a game article, I stumbled upon a bit of ambiguity for the term level. I found this old conversation about it, and apparently no one ever followed through on the consensus. So I fixed all the confusing redirects and pointed Level (gaming) to Level#Gaming. Just a heads up for future reference. — Torchiest talk edits 23:34, 8 July 2011 (UTC)
Check this file's notification: File:Anox_Democratus.ogg
There's a suggestion on the template: "Such tools can also be used to reduce the bit-rate to below 64 Kbps." Was there some kind of consensus that 64 Kbps is the maximum threshold? If so, I've got several samples across a few VG featured articles to brutally reduce in quality. Sigh... By the way, if anyone wants to trade copyedits with me for Anachronox, it'd be great. I'm going to make the same offer on peer review soon (overall, not the VG peer view). ZeaLitY [ Talk - Activity ] 22:32, 9 July 2011 (UTC)
I've listed the proposed move of Alternative character back to Alternate character at WP:RM, so hopefully it will get closed in one way or the other when its week is up. If you have an argument to register on it, now's the time. Arguments in both directions rely heavily on nuances of policy and guidelines, so any insightful contribution may weigh heavily. —chaos5023 ( talk) 04:07, 13 July 2011 (UTC)
Resident Evil 2 hasn't had any activity in five days, and could really use more reviews. Terra Nova: Strike Force Centauri also needs more feedback—particularly, SandyGeorgia requested source checks for adherence and/or plagiarism. If anyone has time, please review one or both of these articles. JimmyBlackwing ( talk) 05:27, 18 June 2011 (UTC)
Resident Evil 2 needs a source review for close paraphrasing/accurate representation/plagiarism, would be nice if someone found the time. Prime Blue ( talk) 18:13, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
Super Meat Boy, Terra Nova and Resident Evil 2 are still up at FAC. Terra Nova is now the oldest nomination on the list; RE2's only 2 spots ahead of it. We need reviewers ASAP. JimmyBlackwing ( talk) 19:50, 8 July 2011 (UTC)
Can anyone take a look at Super Meat Boy? It's near the bottom of the list and only has two reviews (both supports) - it's about a couple of days away from being archived due to inactivity. -- Pres N 19:24, 13 July 2011 (UTC)
FLC List of songs in Rock Band 3 is now the older featured list candidate on the list. It has two supports and no opposes, so just a couple more opinions should hopefully be enough to complete the FLC. All input would be much appreciated. Thanks! – Drilnoth ( T/ C) 22:11, 15 July 2011 (UTC)
Updated project activity charts here. Note that Wikipedia isn't refreshing the images as quickly as it should so you may still see the old charts until it does. SharkD Talk 06:25, 10 July 2011 (UTC)
We need more input about this dispute. SharkD Talk 04:32, 16 July 2011 (UTC)
Okay. I'm tired of going to pages and seeing links to IGN and then 1UP.com. One format should be used, imo, the former, because that's what the publisher is called; we don't say "Jinnai from Wikipedia.com" after all. Either way, this does cause issues when articles go up for feature reviews. 陣 内 Jinnai 14:14, 12 July 2011 (UTC)
As an aside since I brought it up, 1Up is the official name of 1UP. That they use the ".com" on a logo doesn't matter; if they put "1up.butmonkeys.com" its still just a logo. First off, go to the bottom of the page. They list their staff as "1UP Staff" not "1UP.com Staff"; ditto with jobs.
I brought the issue up because Halo 3 was under an FARC and the page couldn't even decide (at the time I brought up the review) between [Bunjie Studios and bungie.co.uk. They also did post 1up.com as the pulisher, but did not give the same treatment to IGN. It's been an issue for other articles I have brought up to FAC that we improperly use urls for publisher. This project is the only place I know that views publisher as something other than the company that published the material.
Now am I expecting us to go through thousands of pages immediatly and change this? No. Maybe for our feature articles though. Mostly, I just want people to go with one way and use it for everything not "its 1up.com, but not IGN.com" 陣 内 Jinnai 03:11, 17 July 2011 (UTC)
Can someone please talk to User:SCB '92? I have looked at his contributions and he has placed 3 articles up for FAC without editing the articles before nominating them, with two of the nominations up right now. GamerPro64 18:06, 14 July 2011 (UTC)
We have four separate lists of MMOs:
Some of these at least should go. SharkD Talk 04:28, 16 July 2011 (UTC)
Could I have a couple more eyes on List of LittleBigPlanet 2 downloadable content packs please. There's a user who has been making the same disruptive edits to the article for a couple of months now. They add false information (usually release dates) and have now also taken to copying over a ref that is already in the article. They started as an IP, were blocked and have now continued the same edit style as User:TheDarkPyrano. They never communicate via discussion pages except for one occasion when they asked a question on the article talk page ( The Portal 2 section). Would appreciate some help. Thanks. - X201 ( talk) 19:05, 16 July 2011 (UTC)
I was recently reading up on Wikimedia's strategy, and, particularly during the "Increase participation" section, I started thinking about how it applied to WPVG. In my opinion, we could be doing more to attract new people to our project, particularly with regard to our front page. I'm going to be blunt about a few things, so bear with me. Here are my thoughts:
I apologize if it came off as a rant, but I believe that we need to think this subject. It's critical to discuss how our project functions, how it attracts editors and how it will be sustained into the future. The excellent discussion far above this one, which dealt with streamlining the project, was a great start. More can and should be done, however, and I believe that the topic I've addressed here is an important element. Thanks for your patience during this long post. JimmyBlackwing ( talk) 11:01, 29 June 2011 (UTC)
Perhaps we can make some more (radical) changes to the main project page, in order to make it more informative for everybody, not just newcomers. Maybe I'll whip up something in my sandbox in a little and pass it along to see what others think. – MuZemike 20:01, 29 June 2011 (UTC)
Is there something we can do about the blur of color at the bottom? The project statistics are out of date and confusing, and not terribly helpful in my opinion, while the articles by quality/importantance is a loud mess, especially since they added the book/cat/disambig/file/etc segments. Is there a better way to display that information? Do we need to have it on the main page? -- Pres N 03:31, 30 June 2011 (UTC)
I've been doodling around with the general layout of the page ( sandbox), and I personally would like to see some better, less "blocky" layout than what we currently have – or at least something that makes it look more 2011-style than 2005-style. Thoughts? (Note that it's not 100% perfect codewise, and I'm always open to other suggestions in that direction.) – MuZemike 19:22, 3 July 2011 (UTC)
The draft in Dorsal Axe's sandbox is looking fairly complete. Only a few tiny problems (a few bits of phrasing and a missing gray bar for "Editing Practices") need to be fixed, in my opinion. I believe that it looks much, much better than the current one. Does anyone disagree with this draft being implemented as the new project page? JimmyBlackwing ( talk) 04:39, 2 July 2011 (UTC)
Hey, we all seem to be pretty happy with Dorsal's sandbox as far as content goes. How are we feeling in terms of Muzemike's structure proposal? Do we want to try to merge the two together- to put Dorsal's content layout in Muzemike's rounded corners? -- Pres N 21:35, 5 July 2011 (UTC)
This should be put back in. Most active wikiprojects do this. Why? Our scope overlaps with thousands of articles from different projects. We might not have an answer here and so there should be an easy way to direct newbies to other projects that cover a vast majority of the same pages we do. What pages are included is debatable, but the lack of it goes against what is being designed here: to make the main page more newbie-friendly. 陣 内 Jinnai 03:00, 17 July 2011 (UTC)
We have some sources up for discussion at WP:VG/S again. Some additional comments wouldn't hurt. Prime Blue ( talk) 12:38, 19 July 2011 (UTC)
I'm no programmer, so this may well be a ridiculous question, but would it be possible for our Featured and Good content subpages to be updated by a bot? They usually lag far behind current events—understandable, given that they're a pain to update manually. JimmyBlackwing ( talk) 17:23, 18 July 2011 (UTC)
A user (See Special:Contributions/Darkness2005) spent yesterday making a a fair few edits where they changed the release region from EU to PAL; no refs were added or altered. The user also changed the dates on some articles without reference changes as well. - X201 ( talk) 10:41, 20 July 2011 (UTC)
I have noticed that many emulator (namely Sega ones) articles are being redirected to List of video game console emulators. Is there any way that members could satisfy the concerns that it is just a directory of mostly, if not all, non-notable articles by adding direct secondary references to the article, and the emulator articles it links to? Otherwise, I fear a widespread articles for deletion will be made across all these articles and the aforementioned list on the basis of that Wikipedia is not a directory, the "Emulator Zone", failure of meeting reliable sources and verifiability and failure of meeting notability policies and guidelines. -- tgheretford ( talk) 17:06, 17 July 2011 (UTC)
More reason to follow the merge procedure. I don't dispute that Marasmusine doesn't need to follow AFD. But following the link back to the redirect page is not obvious, since the "redirected from"... doesn't offer information as to whether the redirect page contains a history or was created directly as a redirect. Test it for yourself to understand what I mean. If you arrived at this page, how would you tell that this content existed in the redirect history? Diego ( talk) 13:29, 18 July 2011 (UTC)
User Darkquest21 recently went through and changed all instances of Microsoft Game Studios to Microsoft Studios per the recent rebranding at E3 2011. While he meant well we go by the historical name. I didn't think much of this as I figured a few of us could clean it up, but there are 250+ edits of this sort and I just don't have the time to do them all (I did the first page of 50 along with other users). Obviously unreleased games will likely have the new branding, but there's a big back catalog to fix. Can anyone help? -- Teancum ( talk) 13:26, 25 July 2011 (UTC)
A recent discussion on WP:MILHIST about simplifying their project structure and departments [5] made me think about whether a similar eye towards our own project might be in order. I'd say on first look that we're nowhere near as byzantine as MILHIST and never will be, owing to our demographics, but it might still be a good idea to see what departments are working, what are just a drain, and how we can trim down that looong VG sidebar to the right on this page. Thoughts? Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs( talk) 14:58, 31 May 2011 (UTC)
Let's get a consensus about switching the department to a guideline. Please state your position (support or oppose) and a reason why. ( Guyinblack25 talk 14:12, 7 June 2011 (UTC))
Looks like we have consensus. I assume we'll let this sit until all the discussions are done. But someone is welcome to take it upon themselves prior to that. ( Guyinblack25 talk 02:53, 15 June 2011 (UTC))
Next up is retiring our project's peer review. This might be a polarizing topic, so please be concise and assume good faith. ( Guyinblack25 talk 02:53, 15 June 2011 (UTC))
If no one minds, I'll start things up again. The question: should we retire the Collaboration of the Week drive? Please state your opinion below. JimmyBlackwing ( talk) 22:10, 21 June 2011 (UTC)
The discussion above was more complicated than expected, but it looks like everyone's had their say. Let's move on to another issue: ending support for internal article requests. As always, please state your opinion below. JimmyBlackwing ( talk) 05:18, 26 June 2011 (UTC)
Since it looks like most people want to keep the page, how can we improve it so that it functions better. I'm sure we can all agree that the backlog is too much, and I think that is were most of the support to shut down the page is rooted. Ideas? ( Guyinblack25 talk 15:10, 7 July 2011 (UTC))
Looks like the Requests page stays where it is. On to the next point, which isn't a straw poll so much as a discussion. Which parts of our current sidebar could/should be trimmed? JimmyBlackwing ( talk) 09:59, 7 July 2011 (UTC)
Hello maybe this is the wrong place to post. Can the engine be added to the sidebar? Has this been discussed? 108.28.30.122 ( talk) 03:34, 10 July 2011 (UTC)
Looks like everything's been hammered out. Here's what's been decided:
I don't feel comfortable performing any of these tasks, since my knowledge of Wikipedia's back end is very limited. Does anyone else mind starting in on the changes? JimmyBlackwing ( talk) 21:48, 24 July 2011 (UTC)
I've made one bold addition to the {{ vgrelease}} template, by adding a WW parameter for worldwide release (as noted, "INT" is for international releases which are different beasts altogether). However, unlike the other parameters, I have not included a rendered abbreviation in the output because if you are using WW, that pretty much implies that there should be no other entries (worldwide being implied broadly, so if a title comes out in NA, most of EU, Australia, but for some reason not in Germany until 2 weeks later, it's still effectively a world-wide release). However, if someone can come up with both a good clear abbreviation for world-wide and an article to link to like for the others, that can be added.
But I would like to add parameters that allow the vgrelease to bring in the system identifications as part of the date. That is, for the example of Limbo (video game), there would still be four vgrelease templtes, but each one would bring in the system information. I propose it be done ala the following: {{vgrelease|system1=[[Xbox 360]]|system1sub=[[Xbox Live Arcade]]|system2=[[PlayStation 3]]|system2sub=[[PlayStation Network]]|NA=Jan 1, 2012|EU=Jan 12, 2012}} The system parameters would be completely optional and would not render anything if not present; making this change does not break any existing use of vgrelease. But if present, would render the text as such:
I'd probably include 3-4 system parameters, that would account for most from there. Note that this covers one cohesive set of release dates for one product on one or more systems. If there are multiple release dates in a region, you would still need a separate one for each. (Eg , Limbo would still require 4 vgrelease templates to cover all those date points) -- MASEM ( t) 15:26, 27 July 2011 (UTC)
These go all the way back to 1993. Mind you, they are for more influential titles, so if you're looking for sources on obscure games, may need to look elsewhere. -- MASEM ( t) 13:55, 28 July 2011 (UTC)
Anyone interested in improving Metal Gear this month? It's kind of a mess, but I don't think that taking it up to B-Class would be out of the question. JimmyBlackwing ( talk) 06:21, 30 July 2011 (UTC)
Hello, I posted a message in Talk:Rugrats: Search for Reptar, but nobody answered me. Can you see this please ? The article is a Good Article, so this is important ! MicroCitron ( talk) 14:39, 30 July 2011 (UTC)
I have seen a commonly recurring issue of "Valve" (among others, example) being listed as a distributor for games that use Steam/was released on Steam. The practice doesn't seem correct to me, Valve do not perform an active role in the distribution, they are licensing their software/platform/drm to whoever is publishing the game, and performing an online retail role. Anyone have any thoughts on this? Яehevkor ✉ 19:06, 30 July 2011 (UTC)
I noticed a user alphabetizing platforms Microsoft Windows, Playstation 3, XBox 360, which strikes me as very odd. It seems to me they should either be sorted Playstation 3, Microsoft Windows (ignoring the Microsoft), XBox 360, or Microsoft Windows, Microsoft XBox 360, Sony Playstation 3. I understand the current sorting is based off of the article titles, but that doesn't seem appropriate for alphabetizing. Just thought I'd bring that up. Some guy ( talk) 15:08, 1 August 2011 (UTC)
Some additional comments are needed here with regards of the existence (or possible non-existence) of the NEC PC-9801 and Sharp X68000 versions of Dragon Warrior, as it looks like we're going to likely edit war over this. Any additional comments to help resolve this at Talk:Dragon Warrior#PC-9801 and X68000 ports would be greatly appreciated. – MuZemike 03:25, 2 August 2011 (UTC)
at the talk page for Call of Duty someone is trying to add the mention of COD in Brevik's 'manifesto'. I have reverted, citing WP:NOTNEWS and WP:RECENTISM. Now the account that I have been discussing with is asking for input over at the talk page of the article on the killer. I could use more eyes on this, as, I may be completely off base in my interpretation, or I may be right. Either way, please take a look. Dbrodbeck ( talk) 19:04, 3 August 2011 (UTC)
G-Zay has brought the project way over the limits of disruption with his constant disregard of community consensus, edit warring and his addition of fanboyistic original research and misleading sources. ANI has failed to act even after all of his disruptions, and he does not show a semblance of remorse despite the countless warnings and reverts he has gotten from multiple project members. Consider this the last-ditch effort, because there's not much more I can do beyond that. Prime Blue ( talk) 20:53, 3 August 2011 (UTC)
I wanted to put out a message that I've put Luigi and Wario under peer review at here and here respectively. The reviews haven't gotten much attention, but the articles deserve review. Please spread the word! -- Nathan2055 talk 22:39, 3 August 2011 (UTC)
I noticed in part with TurboGuy adding a timeline to Halo (series)#Games, but in trying to run through the syntax myself I eventually gave up. Does anyone know how to make these sorts of timelines go in descending order, from earliest to latest, rather than the mind-numbingly stupid latest-to-earliest format that they seem to take by default? Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs( talk) 16:08, 30 July 2011 (UTC)
{{
Video game titles}}
and {{
Video game titles/item}}
? We could have something like "Vertical timeline", which would provide the basic wiki-table framework, and "/item", which would insert the rows and text. Any thoughts? (
Guyinblack25
talk 17:03, 5 August 2011 (UTC))
In the last few weeks, most editors who brought up new sources at our discussion page usually just asked if the site could be considered reliable, which left the repliers with the research work. I think an edit notice on the page would help streamline the process a bit, and to create more well-prepared discussions.
If you begin a new discussion at the bottom of this page, please explain why the source should be considered reliable or unreliable. A strong rationale addresses:
|
An example. Any further suggestions? Prime Blue ( talk) 16:02, 3 August 2011 (UTC)
Given that we reached the 500 GA goal relatively quickly and I don't think we're going to slow down, listing the GA goal seems a bit pointless to me. Not that it isn't something we shouldn't strive for, but I'm sure we're going to do it just as fast with or without that goal listed. How about switching it out for something else? ( Guyinblack25 talk 14:20, 26 July 2011 (UTC))
I'd Say getting a percentage of our articles b class or higher would be a good goal. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs( talk) 18:40, 26 July 2011 (UTC)
I think stubs would be a good idea. I mean, aside from merging or deletion (and if such a stub article should be kept separate, it should be a primary topic or at least have enough substantive material to stand alone, and justify why it should be stand-alone), who wouldn't want to see stubs expanded? The problem is that we have so many that it would be difficult to sustain, not to mention, as I had to explain in a recent AFD, some of these articles are going to be very hard to find sources for coverage, as many of them can only be found in print, as well as in another language. – MuZemike 01:05, 27 July 2011 (UTC)
We have 27 Hign Importance articles that are Stubs, how about improving them from Stub class to A or B class? - X201 ( talk) 08:45, 27 July 2011 (UTC)
In the trailer for the video game I thought I recognized the voice as being Daniel Tosh of Tosh.O.I would like to know as to how to find the identity behind the voice. Any one have any suggestions? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.76.205.186 ( talk) 07:53, August 7, 2011 (UTC)
Hi, about the refs in the Final Fantasy article, I'm not sure refs with videos like GameTrailers can be archived. My doubt is: Can videos be loaded when they are archived? T.R.Elven ( talk) 17:28, 4 August 2011 (UTC)
Internet Archive does not work. For example, this link is used as a reference in Final Fantasy. The page loads up OK, it even archives the flash object, but that flash object actually pulls subobjects from the gametrailers domain. In this case, the actual video it points to is at http://trailers-ak.gametrailers.com/gt_vault/4831/t_finalffantasy_retrospective_pt2_gt.flv If that goes down, then your archive link will not work. You may be able to archive the video directly to avoid this, but I'm not sure if Internet Archive supports this. - hahnch e n 19:45, 5 August 2011 (UTC)
An adoptee of mine has asked about a merger of Scribblenauts and Super Scribblenauts. Could someone take a look at the discussion page and tell me what they think? Ryan Vesey Review me! 22:51, 8 August 2011 (UTC)
Does this table have enough redlinks? SharkD Talk 01:58, 1 August 2011 (UTC)
Hello all, I need input regarding what people think it's appropriate to list in a video game article please! I'm having a bit of trouble with an editor who believes that listing as much as possible is desirable in the Pro Evolution Soccer 2012 article, and reverts if these are removed. The problem is that he won't discuss it, other than the short exchange on my talk page where I tried to explain about WP:NOT and the lists bit on WP:VG/GL, but to no avail. Haven't had a word out of him since then, despite another editor also attempting to engage him on his talk page and on the article talk page. Lists are a pretty major problem with most if not all the Pro Evolution Soccer articles - for example in Pro Evolution Soccer 2011 (the most recently released version) we have lists for the following:
In other articles in the series we also find lists for players featured on the covers, teams playable in the demos, unplayable teams, unlicensed league teams, game modes, "balls"... some of the early games have such lists as individual players and even phrases you might hear the commentators say. IMO of primary concern is preventing this happening to Pro Evolution Soccer 2012, though edits to tidy up the older articles have been reverted by the same editor too. From what's been said before in various discussions on the rival FIFA (video game series), it's OK to list the leagues featured as they're really the major element of these games (and are easily sourceable) and give the reader an idea of what teams, players, stadiums, etc., are included anyway. And it's OK to list the soundtrack if it has had its own separate release or is otherwise notable. While the FIFA articles used to be just as list-heavy as the Pro Evo articles are at the moment, they have been pretty stable with just these two lists in each one for a couple of years now, and I think it's time Pro Evo followed suit. So, what I'm looking for here is a consensus of what lists are appropriate to these articles. Please comment! Miremare 19:36, 7 August 2011 (UTC)
I have placed Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars up for a community GAR here. Please make comments and Support or Oppose if you think it should be demoted or it should keep its GA status. GamerPro64 15:53, 9 August 2011 (UTC)
I noticed that a lot of VG categories have been speedily moved today (all highlighted by this diff). I'm not exactly sure of the convention for this, but many of these categories have added what seems like unnecessary disambiguation such as Category:Imagineering games moving to Category:Imagineering (company) games, and Category:Athena games to Category:Athena (company) games. Presumably this change was made because the article on the company is disambiguated with "(company)", but do we need that to filter down into categories where there is no need for such disambiguation? Other than the company, there is no other "Athena" that makes games, and if there were, "company" wouldn't disambiguate between the two anyway.
Also there are have been a fair few cases of seemingly redundant "Games" being added such as Category:Blue Fang games to Category:Blue Fang Games games, and Category:Firaxis games to Category:Firaxis Games games. I know that the "Games" is part of the company name in these cases, but is that really necessary? Miremare 15:13, 10 August 2011 (UTC)
I'm not a member of the project, but wanted to drop a note: I've run into issues with anons/SPAs running around listing OnLive in the "platforms" field of video game infoboxes, and adding the dates the games were added to the service to the list of release dates. I don't use OnLive, but my understanding is that it is not a platform but a service, like Netflix. One can play games via OnLive, but the platform is a PC/Mac, just as one can watch movies via Netflix but the platform is an Xbox/Wii/PC/etc. It seems akin to saying that "the internet" is a platform. It's certainly not a "console or operating system", which is what the infobox documentation describes as what's intended to go in the field. In fact one needs to be running one of a list of supported operating systems in order to use OnLive. It certainly doesn't seem pertinent to list what date OnLine began offering some game from the 1990s, just as it doesn't seem to be pertinent to list the dates on which old movies were made available for streaming on Netflix. What are others' thoughts on this? -- IllaZilla ( talk) 06:27, 11 August 2011 (UTC)
I know, this has be discussed to death, but I'm really struggling to back folks up on the 'not a platform' debate, though I used to feel differently. What I'm proposing discussion on this time around is different than past ones. All I'm proposing is that we allow it to be listed in the infobox. Arguments can and have been made on both sides with sources to back them up, usually the result of WP:SYNTH to make the point. But if there's plenty of evidence on either side I'd submit that we can't simply ignore that several sources list it as a platform. Is it any different than a Roku device that streams Netflix and other video services? (for the uninitiated, Netflix would not be the platform -- Roku streams several types of media and has its own frontend) It's a device which allows play of a game -- the distribution method is irrelevant. The device has its own frontend/dashboard that it uses to interface with the player and stream data back and forth. If OnLive magically had a disc peripheral we're suddenly going to change our minds? In the end it is the device that allows someone to play the game, the fact that all the horsepower is on the other end of the connection seems like a moot argument, especially when nobody truly knows what platform those games are using on the other side.
I think the issue is that it's a dual-nature name. There's OnLive the device, and there's the OnLive service. Differentiating between the two is something we need to do. The device is, for all intents and purposes, a platform. Sources that understand that list it as such, while others focus on it as a service such as Xbox Live while ignoring what the player has in their hands. -- Teancum ( talk) 13:10, 3 August 2011 (UTC)
|platforms=
as it is not a true computing platform. Even for a rough consensus, it pretty much settles the base issue for any anon/editor arguing. I doubt anything has changed since. We don't call a beer tap "brewery", just because all the back-end is invisible to the customer. Btw, what sources describe it is as a platform? And not GameSpot listing it together with Windows and using the buzzword "platform" in the same way they use "next-gen" ^^. But as an actual article or news piece describing it as a
computing platform, which is what the field is for and which is what the game studios decided upon as the first thing. I highly doubt there will be games any time soon where we won't know the platform. OnLive is just an added bonus. In very broad terms -- OnLive device is just a TV adapter that can stream stuff; OnLive service is just a web-page to buy game-time. —
HELLKNOWZ ▎
TALK 13:42, 3 August 2011 (UTC)
|platform=
. —
HELLKNOWZ ▎
TALK 14:05, 3 August 2011 (UTC)
Any change or maintenance of the status quo, ought to consider similar services ( Category:Cloud gaming) as well. - X201 ( talk) 07:39, 4 August 2011 (UTC)
As per previous discussions, OnLive is not a platform. It's a service layer between the platform and the end user - the game still runs on Windows. - hahnch e n 12:59, 12 August 2011 (UTC)
Hi,
I'm not sure if this is the correct place to post this, but I just wanted to draw your attention to some suggestions I've made on the Kinect Sports and Kinect Sports: Season Two discussion pages. I wasn't sure if anyone gets notified when new content is posted to those pages or if I just needed to wait for someone to 'find' them?
I work for Rare (the makers of Kinect Sports) on their Web & Community team, and am aware of the issues relating to conflict of interest that prevent me from making any changes to these pages myself. I therefore thought the best approach would be to make my suggestions on the discussion pages for independent editors to consider and (where appropriate) action.
Hopefully this falls withing the Wikipedia guidelines, I'd be grateful if someone could get back to me with some feedback!
Thanks very much,
-- Neal - Rare Ltd ( talk) 08:00, 11 August 2011 (UTC)
I'm wanting to take away the crutch that several Major League Gaming articles have. Many use majorleaguegaming.com as a means to establish notability, a primary source. Please join the discussion at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Video games/Sources#MLGPro as situational. Thanks much. -- Teancum ( talk) 12:53, 12 August 2011 (UTC)
I was after more opinions for the Reception section on Ballance. An IP editor is removing it because it is too favourable despite it being sourced by a review article at Adrenaline Vault. I suggested that balance would be achieved by the addition of a more critical review article but they just removed the section again. - Shiftchange ( talk) 14:51, 12 August 2011 (UTC)
On Monday August 15th, the project will have its first ever Featured List on Today's Featured List with the List of Donkey Kong video games. Hopefully we will have more in the future. GamerPro64 20:26, 13 August 2011 (UTC)
Guys, just a quick cry for help here, I did a quick "check links" scan and seems that the list has six deadlinks, all to Gamespot. Would be most appreciative if these can be fixed before the list hits main page. The Rambling Man ( talk) 17:36, 14 August 2011 (UTC)
As a side comment, it's one of the good things why Featured Lists are now featured on the Main Page, in that they are scrutinized much more before and during its time on the Main Page. – MuZemike 18:02, 14 August 2011 (UTC)
Some IPs and myself are revert-warring over how to summarize the OPM review. I'm mentioning gameplay-specific elements, with the explicit score, while they mention comparison with other games without the score itself. Opinions would be welcomed. Headbomb { talk / contribs / physics / books} 03:18, 15 August 2011 (UTC)
User:Kaldari has brought up some questions about the format of today's current WP:TFL, List of Donkey Kong video games, which is used in many other of our project's featured lists such as List of The Legend of Zelda media and List of Space Invaders video games. As such, I thought it might warrant further comment from other editors in the WikiProject: the discussion can be seen here. Nomader ( talk) 06:00, 15 August 2011 (UTC)
I've been wondering if Category:Crafting video games is an encyclopaedic category and if it doesn't violate WP:OVERCAT? It seems a bit arbitrary to categorize games based on individual features. It does not look like there are many other category examples like this. I would think this is similar to categorizing something like Category:Video games featuring weapons. I haven't spent too much time looking at VG categories, so I'm asking here first before possible CfD. — HELLKNOWZ ▎ TALK 10:18, 7 August 2011 (UTC)
I have CfDed the category at Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2011_August_17#Category:Crafting_video_games and took the liberty of copying the above replies there. — HELLKNOWZ ▎ TALK 16:48, 17 August 2011 (UTC)
I just updated Wikipedia:WikiProject Video games/Featured content to better describe everything listed. Some one may want to give it look to see if further edits are necessary. I also added Robin Hunicke and Circle strafing in Featured picture and Former featured sections. Did I miss any other pictures or other Featured content? ( Guyinblack25 talk 16:14, 16 August 2011 (UTC))
An anon has been placing external links in various articles [12] [13] from IMDB. Since that site is reliable, can it used as an external link? I also had the same questions with the wikias which are being added in various articles. Regards. Tintor2 ( talk) 16:25, 17 August 2011 (UTC)
Doing some edits in preparation for Dragon Warrior's FAC, several people outside of the project have had trouble understanding the usage of Famicom (and Super Famicom) and some copyedits have changed it to the NES/SNES respectively. Others have simply had outright confusion as to what they are are.
The issue with Dragon Warrior comes with the whole section devoted to its localization and people get confused because they assume its for a different system; that the Famicom and NES are not in any way related.
So with that said, should we use the NES/SNES names and only mention the first instance that the system is called something different, ie "The NES (known in Japan as the Famicom)...", only use it for Japanese exclusive titles or not at all? 陣 内 Jinnai 15:15, 4 August 2011 (UTC)
To me (and also as Blake pointed out above), it always depends on context. Another example would be whether to use "Sega Genesis" or "Sega Mega Drive" – if a 16-bit Sega game was released only in North America, then it would make sense to call say "Sega Genesis"; however, if a game only came out in Europe or was primarily known there, then "Sega Mega Drive" would be OK. In the context of Dragon Warrior, the 16-bit remake was only released in Japan, so it makes sense to call it by the Japanese name of the system, the "Super Famicom". – MuZemike 17:23, 4 August 2011 (UTC)
For what it's worth, there aren't all that many games relevant to the NES that are so different on the Famicom that it's worth noting the Famicom in particular. Most games that are Famicom-specific are either Japan-only games or are games that were made specifically for the Famicom and took advantage of features only available on that system (like Famicom Disk System games - Zelda, Metroid, etc.). This is even less the case for SNES/Super Famicom games, since (to my knowledge) very few cross-region SNES games used SuperFam-specific features. So I agree with stating NES/SNES since that's what the majority of our readers are likely to know, except for special cases. — KieferSkunk ( talk) — 03:51, 6 August 2011 (UTC)
I previously stated that I was in favor of using "NES/SNES" in general situations, but a discussion on Talk:List of Donkey Kong video games has me thinking I should clarify my position: I think that when a singular release has occurred for both Famicom and NES at the same general time, or when the time doesn't matter (all we're saying is that it's out on both), then just saying "NES" instead of "NES/Famicom" should be fine. But in more specific instances, like the one being debated at the DK list, I think we should stick with the most accurate and specific term that applies to the entry in question.
In the specific case of the DK list, I disputed a reference to DK being released on the NES in 1983, two years before the American NES itself was released. I felt that saying it had been released in 1983 on that console was confusing and misleading - someone would have to know a lot about the history of the game and the consoles to realize that we really meant "Famicom" there. The fix I put in place for that specific entry was to go ahead and say "Famicom" for 1983, and make a separate entry for "NES" in 1985. But that, of course, might cause some confusion because now we're talking about two apparently-different systems, and again someone MIGHT need to have advanced knowledge to know the relationship between them. But IMO, that's what the article link is for - if someone goes "What's a Famicom?" and clicks on it, they'll be taken to the NES article which has info on the Japanese version.
Nutshell: I think the best policy is to use the more common name when both apply, to reduce wordiness and awkward referencing, but to be as specific and accurate as possible (within reason, of course) when referring to a specific instance. To me, DK in 1983 on the NES is wrong, but to say the game had been released in the 1980s on the NES would be accurate. Does that make sense? — KieferSkunk ( talk) — 21:03, 22 August 2011 (UTC)
Certainly not. Wikipedia only stresses to use common names for article names, while still listing the alternative names. What's important is that we don't go by just one name over another, omitting the other name completely (like some have suggested here in regards to Famicom). If (if) my understanding is correct, and more text has been generated about it by North American based writers, and more people in North America know about Sega's 16-bit console than the people in other countries, then, isn't that common name? Not only that but Sega's 16-bit console was introduced to English natives as the Sega Genesis, before the PAL release of the Mega Drive.-- Sexy Kick 12:53, 12 August 2011 (UTC)
This is the proposed worded for WP:VG/GL. Note I'm including games here also because they'd follow similar practices.
For systems and games, English terms are proffered over foreign ones when the difference would be beyond those who do not have the history and/or technical knowledge to tell the difference. For example, while the Famicom is not quite the same as the NES the differences are so minor that they are generally considered the same system. For systems with multiple English names, the one most widely cited by reliable sources should be used. For example, Sega Genesis is more widely used than Sega Mega Drive. Articles should generally avoid mention of the foreign names unless there is a good reason, such as it being part of the title, there are changes that rely on one of those specific regional versions, etc.
I'm not sure if we should allow foreign-released titles only to be automatically exempted. I'm not in favor of this after considering it because in most circumstances you can explain things with the descriptor "Japanese" or whatever country it is.
Thought? 陣 内 Jinnai 01:04, 17 August 2011 (UTC)
I'm never too certain on how to interpret things like #5 at Wikipedia:Naming_conventions_(video_games)#Disambiguation. The article does meet the requirements (three video game articles, with the third one still announced but yet-to-be-released, with plenty of extra related articles like comic books, etc.) So is it time to move the article? Personally I just went to Mass Effect and just assumed that it would be the series article since the popularity of the series rises with each new entry, rather than the first game in the series having had an immediate impact when it was first released, so most references to "Mass Effect" would, I think, be to the series rather than the first game. Gary King ( talk · scripts) 23:29, 16 August 2011 (UTC)
This article has been constantly moved because editors can not decide what its name should be. It has been moved to Nexon Co. Ltd. but I believe it should stay at Nexon Korea Corporation as they refer to their company as such on their official website. I'm not sure about the guidelines for the article so I'm hoping an experienced editor would take a look at the article and tag it under the right project. Thanks! DragonZero ( Talk · Contribs) 01:02, 18 August 2011 (UTC)
Devil May Cry (video game) will be up on TFA tomorrow. However, it may need some improvement, like more info in the article's lead. GamerPro64 02:34, 22 August 2011 (UTC)
There seems to be a decently-sized gulf between the way Wikipedia:WikiProject Video games/Assessment defines the various article classes, and the way they're used by editors. The following three are articles I've recently started--I know it'd be more objective to link articles others started, but I don't really have the time spare to research at the moment--which have been rated as Start (the first) and Stub (the latter two): iCade, iControlPad, Nyko Wand. While I may have some personal bias as to their quality, I think it'd be quite neutral to say their ratings as defined by the project seem not to line up with their status.
Class | Criteria | Reader's experience | Editing suggestions | Example |
---|---|---|---|---|
Start | An article that is developing, but which is quite incomplete and may require further reliable sources. More detailed criteria
The article has a usable amount of good content but is weak in many areas. Quality of the prose may be distinctly unencyclopedic, and
MoS compliance non-existent; but the article should satisfy fundamental content policies such as
notability and
BLP, and provide sources to establish
verifiability. No Start-Class article should be in any danger of being
speedily deleted.
|
Provides some meaningful content, but the majority of readers will need more. | Provision of references to reliable sources should be prioritised; the article will also need substantial improvements in content and organisation. |
Real analysis (as of November 2006) |
Stub | A very basic description of the topic. More detailed criteria
The article is either a very short article or a rough collection of information that will need much work to become a meaningful article. It is usually very short, but if the material is irrelevant or incomprehensible, an article of any length falls into this category.
|
Provides very little meaningful content; may be little more than a dictionary definition. | Any editing or additional material can be helpful. The provision of meaningful content should be a priority. |
Geodia gibberosa (as of July 2009) |
"Very little meaningful content" doesn't seem to me like an accurate description of the iControlPad or Nyko Wand articles, and contrary to the definition ("quite incomplete"), the iCade article is about as complete as it's possible to be for a niche topic like this. It covers the device's development, a laymen-friendly description of the technical concepts behind it, the device's reception, and the only really incomplete part, the list of compatible software, which is the nature of lists of current-gen software releases. I'm not taking these descriptors personally at all--they're Wikipedia articles, not Vague Rant articles, and the definitions pretty clearly don't apply, so there's very little to be offended by. I have noticed this tendency toward low quality-class rankings on other articles, so I'm just trying to gauge whether the project feels the issue is in application or definition of the classes.
If anyone desires to reclassify these articles, that's fine, but not really the purpose of this discussion, as the phenomenon is far more widespread than the few I've noted here. - Vague | Rant 18:50, 17 August 2011 (UTC)
I just noticed this at GAN. It thought that articles about unreleased games were ineligible for GA and FA unless the industry had deemed it vaporware. Unless the article is not current and the game has been canceled. ( Guyinblack25 talk 22:30, 23 August 2011 (UTC))
I have quick-failed the GAN, as PresN is right. No way that article is going to be stable until sometime after its release, preferably after all the hype and buzz have quieted down. – MuZemike 22:56, 23 August 2011 (UTC)
I'm certain that we discourage articles like Comparison of Donkey Kong ports without a massive amount of third-party sources directly about the topic. But I'm not certain if we redirect or delete such pages. Should I take it to AfD or start a discussion to redirect it? ( Guyinblack25 talk 16:48, 18 August 2011 (UTC))
Metal Gear has seen drastic improvement since it became the COTM. User:Tintor2, User:Game-Guru999 and I (but mostly Tintor) have been working on it without any real game plan or intentional collaboration, but the article is looking much better than it was before the drive. Seems like making it monthly instead of weekly really was a better idea. Considering the jump in quality, I bumped it from C-Class to B-Class. If anyone else wants to tweak the article, the more the merrier. JimmyBlackwing ( talk) 22:50, 19 August 2011 (UTC)
What should we go with for ratings in the infobox and prose? Specificially I'm asking when a rating was changed due to structural changes, such as those with CERO rating. Should the initial or latest rating go in the infobox? How do you add the rating to the prose (probably under release) when you don't have date changes? I'm asking because Oshiete! Popotan was changed from CERO 18 to CERO D. I don't have any dates for this as the packaging wasn't changed I just found out because of an edit to the infobox. 陣 内 Jinnai 23:31, 22 August 2011 (UTC)
There are several listings on Wikipedia:WikiProject Video games/Article alerts of Zynga games, though the nominations weren't completed, including games like Cityville. At first glance they don't look like they're eligible for deletion in the first place. Not sure what to do, um help? Someone another 20:41, 25 August 2011 (UTC)
I know this may just be looking for trouble, but I can't stand this anymore.
I'm dealing with two editors who insist on doing things their way, while claiming that I'm doing the same. I've been able to refute nearly every point brought up (because a lot of it simply didn't hold) and they haven't even bothered to take any of it into consideration, immediately going after very specific statements. This really tells me that they are not interested in why the article should stay or go, and they do not seem to understand that this sort of logic must apply across the encyclopedia, and last I checked we don't do things like this. For the sake of reason, can someone please help me out here? Despatche ( talk) 00:58, 27 August 2011 (UTC)
The video game The King of Fighters XIII is going to be released in consoles for the PS3 and Xbox 360, but both ports feature notably different artwork: Xbox image and the PS3 image. Since the previous image, the game logo, did not provide too much illustration, I replaced it with a console cover, but mayber a poster would be more suitable. Any thoughts? Regards. Tintor2 ( talk) 02:28, 28 August 2011 (UTC)
Hello, there is a bot approval request at WP:BRFA/H3llBot 9 for adding wikilinks to work/publisher fields where the entity can be unambiguously identified from a pre-selected list. Since I want to run video game article first, giving a ping here too. Comments welcome, thanks. — HELLKNOWZ ▎ TALK 16:20, 28 August 2011 (UTC)
A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Ripples (video game) is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.
The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Ripples (video game) until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on good quality evidence, and our policies and guidelines.
Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion template from the top of the article. RJaguar3 | u | t 20:14, 28 August 2011 (UTC)
The featured topic I'm working toward is " Looking Glass Studios games". This naturally excludes the company's main article and the ones for its employees. The articles I plan to include are List of video games developed by Looking Glass Studios, Ultima Underworld: The Stygian Abyss, Ultima Underworld II: Labyrinth of Worlds, System Shock, Flight Unlimited, Terra Nova: Strike Force Centauri, British Open Championship Golf, Flight Unlimited II, Thief: The Dark Project, System Shock 2, Flight Unlimited III, Thief II: The Metal Age and Jane's Attack Squadron.
But I still don't know if this scope is appropriate. Looking Glass's history was very messy. They went through at least three name changes, one or two mergers, and the attribution nightmare that was Jane's Attack Squadron, a game canceled because of the company's 2000 bankruptcy and finished/released by a different company.
The problems start at the beginning of the company's life. Paul Neurath and Ned Lerner went to college together in the early '80s, worked together on an Elite knockoff called Deep Space, and then separated. Lerner worked on a few flight games, including the then-acclaimed Chuck Yeager's Advanced Flight Trainer (1987); Neurath joined Origin Systems and made Space Rogue (1989). At some point during this time (sources get foggy through here), Lerner founded a company called Lerner Research. Again at some point, his company began developing a game called Car & Driver. In 1990, Neurath founded Blue Sky Productions to make what would become Ultima Underworld. The team used code from Lerner Research programmers, including assembly code straight out of Car & Driver, to create a prototype of Underworld. During the game's development, Lerner helped to fund the team and Lerner Research programmer Chris Green created the all-important texture mapping algorithm for it.
Car & Driver and Underworld were both released in 1992; the latter in March, the former at an undefined time. Underworld's opening credits identify Blue Sky Productions as the developer. That year, the two companies merged to form Looking Glass Technologies. The Lerner Research part of the team was the one that moved. There's rough evidence that Car & Driver was in the final stages of development after the merge. When it was released, the box attributed it to Lerner Research. The opening screen reads "Looking Glass Technologies".
Now for the questions. Since Looking Glass was the result of a merger, should games from both halves of the company count as "Looking Glass games"? That's not the standard practice of video game history writers. Normally, Blue Sky is considered to be just an early name for Looking Glass. It's kind of understandable, since the vast majority of the employees from this time who went on to be counted as "Looking Glass employees" were from the Blue Sky part of the company. But in a 1992 post-merger interview, Neurath estimates that only half of the company's employees were originally Blue Sky people. Perhaps all pre-merger games should be left out? Again, it's not in the sources. Standard practice is to place Underworld at the beginning of Looking Glass's history. Even when we consider these factors, the placement of Car & Driver does not become clearer. Was it a Lerner Research game or a Looking Glass game? How do we decide when the sources almost never discuss it? In short, I have no idea what to do.
Next up we have the ports. LG created several ports for other companies' games during its lifetime. These include Madden '93 for the Genesis, Command & Conquer for the N64 and Destruction Derby 64. None of these appear to be viable for splitting. But what do I do? Consider them unconnected and leave them as they are? Fix up these articles that are only slightly connected to my topic scope? Again, I'm at a loss.
Then we have Jane's Attack Squadron. Last time I asked about it here, I was told to include it. I'd like a few more opinions, though. To avoid having to write another massive paragraph of history, I'll just direct you here. The game's absurdly convoluted development cycle is briefly addressed in that section.
Thanks for having the patience to read this giant text-wall. I look forward to resolving these problems, as they've been worrying me for quite awhile. JimmyBlackwing ( talk) 23:34, 26 August 2011 (UTC)
This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 85 | ← | Archive 87 | Archive 88 | Archive 89 | Archive 90 | Archive 91 | → | Archive 95 |
Just wondering if I could get some input on the following articles: Lara Croft and Maniac Mansion. The discussions are:
Maniac Mansion has been under A-class review for a while now, and I would certainly appreciate some input to finish things up. Lara Croft did not pass it's recent FAC, and one reviewer was kind enough to provide feedback afterward, but we are approaching it from different angles. Outside pairs of eyes would help bring these to a conclusion. Thanks. ( Guyinblack25 talk 15:15, 28 June 2011 (UTC))
I've been doing some researching about the company and found some information to be innaccurate. It appears Encore, the North American distributor of their titles in North America has discontinued many of their products sold in the USA. So the info in the article may be somewhat obsolete. JasonHockeyGuy ( talk) 06:49, 29 June 2011 (UTC)
[1] - For anyone to add to articles. - New Age Retro Hippie (talk) (contributions) 10:29, 29 June 2011 (UTC)
Hi everyone-
Just so you know, it has been one month since I nominated the article List of songs in Rock Band 3 for featured list status, and there still hasn't been any substantial input apart from the layout notes and other comments from the FLC directors. The article isn't a terribly long, and any input (positive or negative) would be greatly appreciated!
Thanks! – Drilnoth ( T • C • L) 14:18, 29 June 2011 (UTC)
Which is better? [2] or [3]? See also discussion at User talk:Thumperward#Planescape: Torment. – Drilnoth ( T • C • L) 13:28, 24 June 2011 (UTC)
I always cite plot sections with in-game quotes and sources close to the original material, but I might add that this has caused problems on our two current featured article nominations ( Terra Nova: Strike Force Centauri and Resident Evil 2) because it implies a heavy reliance on primary sources for the whole article. Prime Blue ( talk) 19:34, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
Suggest to add some additional lines to the {{
Video game release}} template to make multiple-region release dates and publishers easier to add. So far, we always had to insert these manually, that is, simultaneous releases in North America and Europe had to be {{vgrelease|[[North America|NA]] / [[PAL region|PAL]]|January 1, 2000}}
. Suggest to replace this with a simple "NAPAL" field for automatic formatting. Would not change the usage of the current template, just makes these special cases easier and faster to insert. Addition to template is in the page source.
Prime Blue (
talk) 21:02, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
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I had requested a peer review for Kirby (character). One of the suggestions included "contact(ing) the most relevant WikiProject" for help in making the article a good article once again. Is there anyone here willing to help out with this? -- Newimagekirby ( talk) 10:50, 30 June 2011 (UTC)
Should articles of released video games be added to categories that the game will belong to in the future? For example, should Minecraft or Limbo be categorized as Category:Xbox 360 games and Category:Windows games respectively even though they have not yet been ported to those platforms (announced in RS though). — HELLKNOWZ ▎ TALK 17:50, 30 June 2011 (UTC)
For those who may be interested, a user is rapidly tagging all "invalid Fair Use rationale" images, including many covered by this project. If you'd like to rescue pictures for video games, take a look at The ongoing tagging, (he's up to 'F') there are video games' articles on there; I'm trying to catch as many as I can, but extra sets of eyes & fixers would be appreciated! Skier Dude ( talk) 00:55, 1 July 2011 (UTC)
On a related note someone has been uploading a bunch of video game logos to Commons. I'm not sure if Template:PD-textlogo applies to all them. Someone more expert on the subject could look at them: [4]. -- Mika1h ( talk) 12:40, 1 July 2011 (UTC)
The article Arvale: Journey of Illusion has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern:
While all contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, content or articles may be deleted for any of several reasons.
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Bulwersator (
talk) 09:51, 4 July 2011 (UTC)
Whipped this up in my sandbox last night; basically some slight cosmetic improvements to the barnstar design (actually, fairly radical compared to the rest of the barnstar formats). Basically, the wikitable has been replaced with a simple div and span tag, and more regular wikicode is used; also, I changed "VG Barnstar" to "WikiProject Video games Barnstar". Finally, being a fan of rounded borders and box shadows, I implemented both of those to give a better look. Any thoughts before I implement it in Template:Barnstar VG? – MuZemike 20:14, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
I went ahead and implemented the improvements to Template:Barnstar VG; we can make additional changes as needed. While on the topic, is there a reason why we have Template:The Gamer's Barnstar, which is identical to Template:Barnstar VG? Should we redirect that one? (Also note that I just redirected Template:WikiProject Nintendo Barnstar to Template:The Nintendo Barnstar for the exact same reason.) – MuZemike 03:32, 30 June 2011 (UTC)
I see a slight problem, and that's the proliferation of those templates (border-radius and the other) embedded in the CSS. Might run afoul of substing guidelines (as I recall barnstars are substed, no?). Might be easier just to include the CSS directly rather than as templates. -- Izno ( talk) 05:48, 30 June 2011 (UTC)
The newsletter is already pretty much ready to go, and I can send it out with my bot sometime today. If somebody wants to take a last check over the "feature" and "featured editor" parts on the draft page before I go ahead and create those subpages, that would be great. – MuZemike 06:41, 1 July 2011 (UTC)
I apologize for making so many of these. Anyway, I'd like a few opinions on whether or not to exclude an article from my work-in-progress Looking Glass Studios games topic. The article in question is Jane's Attack Squadron, a game that experienced an extremely convoluted development cycle. Until recently, I didn't think it would be necessary to include it. However, I read up on it a little during the writing of Flight Unlimited, and now I'm no longer sure what to do. This section of Flight Unlimited briefly summarizes what I'm talking about. Basically, the game was developed on the side by Looking Glass for something like 5 years, only to be canceled near completion because of the company's closure. At some point, another company (Mad Doc), which contained a few former LGS members, picked up the game and "finished" it. A publisher with no previous connection to the game or company, Xicat, then released it to universal derision in 2002.
Should this qualify as a "collaboration", as with System Shock 2, or did the game officially pass out of the realm of Looking Glass? I honestly can't decide. Any advice would be great. JimmyBlackwing ( talk) 07:28, 5 July 2011 (UTC)
Could everyone please put in your vote for merging New Super Mario Bros. Mii into New Super Mario Bros. Wii over at this talk page? This is a very short page that could work fine being merged. -- Nathan2055 talk 00:23, 6 July 2011 (UTC)
Could members of this project give their opinions on this AfD, couldn't find a notability requirement for computer games, if we have some could you also point me in the direction of it. Mo ainm ~Talk 22:30, 6 July 2011 (UTC)
I just noticed the project has made 500 Good Articles. Hooray for progress! GamerPro64 22:14, 6 July 2011 (UTC)
Plus the A-class articles (which there are 39). GamerPro64 22:27, 6 July 2011 (UTC)
While working on a game article, I stumbled upon a bit of ambiguity for the term level. I found this old conversation about it, and apparently no one ever followed through on the consensus. So I fixed all the confusing redirects and pointed Level (gaming) to Level#Gaming. Just a heads up for future reference. — Torchiest talk edits 23:34, 8 July 2011 (UTC)
Check this file's notification: File:Anox_Democratus.ogg
There's a suggestion on the template: "Such tools can also be used to reduce the bit-rate to below 64 Kbps." Was there some kind of consensus that 64 Kbps is the maximum threshold? If so, I've got several samples across a few VG featured articles to brutally reduce in quality. Sigh... By the way, if anyone wants to trade copyedits with me for Anachronox, it'd be great. I'm going to make the same offer on peer review soon (overall, not the VG peer view). ZeaLitY [ Talk - Activity ] 22:32, 9 July 2011 (UTC)
I've listed the proposed move of Alternative character back to Alternate character at WP:RM, so hopefully it will get closed in one way or the other when its week is up. If you have an argument to register on it, now's the time. Arguments in both directions rely heavily on nuances of policy and guidelines, so any insightful contribution may weigh heavily. —chaos5023 ( talk) 04:07, 13 July 2011 (UTC)
Resident Evil 2 hasn't had any activity in five days, and could really use more reviews. Terra Nova: Strike Force Centauri also needs more feedback—particularly, SandyGeorgia requested source checks for adherence and/or plagiarism. If anyone has time, please review one or both of these articles. JimmyBlackwing ( talk) 05:27, 18 June 2011 (UTC)
Resident Evil 2 needs a source review for close paraphrasing/accurate representation/plagiarism, would be nice if someone found the time. Prime Blue ( talk) 18:13, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
Super Meat Boy, Terra Nova and Resident Evil 2 are still up at FAC. Terra Nova is now the oldest nomination on the list; RE2's only 2 spots ahead of it. We need reviewers ASAP. JimmyBlackwing ( talk) 19:50, 8 July 2011 (UTC)
Can anyone take a look at Super Meat Boy? It's near the bottom of the list and only has two reviews (both supports) - it's about a couple of days away from being archived due to inactivity. -- Pres N 19:24, 13 July 2011 (UTC)
FLC List of songs in Rock Band 3 is now the older featured list candidate on the list. It has two supports and no opposes, so just a couple more opinions should hopefully be enough to complete the FLC. All input would be much appreciated. Thanks! – Drilnoth ( T/ C) 22:11, 15 July 2011 (UTC)
Updated project activity charts here. Note that Wikipedia isn't refreshing the images as quickly as it should so you may still see the old charts until it does. SharkD Talk 06:25, 10 July 2011 (UTC)
We need more input about this dispute. SharkD Talk 04:32, 16 July 2011 (UTC)
Okay. I'm tired of going to pages and seeing links to IGN and then 1UP.com. One format should be used, imo, the former, because that's what the publisher is called; we don't say "Jinnai from Wikipedia.com" after all. Either way, this does cause issues when articles go up for feature reviews. 陣 内 Jinnai 14:14, 12 July 2011 (UTC)
As an aside since I brought it up, 1Up is the official name of 1UP. That they use the ".com" on a logo doesn't matter; if they put "1up.butmonkeys.com" its still just a logo. First off, go to the bottom of the page. They list their staff as "1UP Staff" not "1UP.com Staff"; ditto with jobs.
I brought the issue up because Halo 3 was under an FARC and the page couldn't even decide (at the time I brought up the review) between [Bunjie Studios and bungie.co.uk. They also did post 1up.com as the pulisher, but did not give the same treatment to IGN. It's been an issue for other articles I have brought up to FAC that we improperly use urls for publisher. This project is the only place I know that views publisher as something other than the company that published the material.
Now am I expecting us to go through thousands of pages immediatly and change this? No. Maybe for our feature articles though. Mostly, I just want people to go with one way and use it for everything not "its 1up.com, but not IGN.com" 陣 内 Jinnai 03:11, 17 July 2011 (UTC)
Can someone please talk to User:SCB '92? I have looked at his contributions and he has placed 3 articles up for FAC without editing the articles before nominating them, with two of the nominations up right now. GamerPro64 18:06, 14 July 2011 (UTC)
We have four separate lists of MMOs:
Some of these at least should go. SharkD Talk 04:28, 16 July 2011 (UTC)
Could I have a couple more eyes on List of LittleBigPlanet 2 downloadable content packs please. There's a user who has been making the same disruptive edits to the article for a couple of months now. They add false information (usually release dates) and have now also taken to copying over a ref that is already in the article. They started as an IP, were blocked and have now continued the same edit style as User:TheDarkPyrano. They never communicate via discussion pages except for one occasion when they asked a question on the article talk page ( The Portal 2 section). Would appreciate some help. Thanks. - X201 ( talk) 19:05, 16 July 2011 (UTC)
I was recently reading up on Wikimedia's strategy, and, particularly during the "Increase participation" section, I started thinking about how it applied to WPVG. In my opinion, we could be doing more to attract new people to our project, particularly with regard to our front page. I'm going to be blunt about a few things, so bear with me. Here are my thoughts:
I apologize if it came off as a rant, but I believe that we need to think this subject. It's critical to discuss how our project functions, how it attracts editors and how it will be sustained into the future. The excellent discussion far above this one, which dealt with streamlining the project, was a great start. More can and should be done, however, and I believe that the topic I've addressed here is an important element. Thanks for your patience during this long post. JimmyBlackwing ( talk) 11:01, 29 June 2011 (UTC)
Perhaps we can make some more (radical) changes to the main project page, in order to make it more informative for everybody, not just newcomers. Maybe I'll whip up something in my sandbox in a little and pass it along to see what others think. – MuZemike 20:01, 29 June 2011 (UTC)
Is there something we can do about the blur of color at the bottom? The project statistics are out of date and confusing, and not terribly helpful in my opinion, while the articles by quality/importantance is a loud mess, especially since they added the book/cat/disambig/file/etc segments. Is there a better way to display that information? Do we need to have it on the main page? -- Pres N 03:31, 30 June 2011 (UTC)
I've been doodling around with the general layout of the page ( sandbox), and I personally would like to see some better, less "blocky" layout than what we currently have – or at least something that makes it look more 2011-style than 2005-style. Thoughts? (Note that it's not 100% perfect codewise, and I'm always open to other suggestions in that direction.) – MuZemike 19:22, 3 July 2011 (UTC)
The draft in Dorsal Axe's sandbox is looking fairly complete. Only a few tiny problems (a few bits of phrasing and a missing gray bar for "Editing Practices") need to be fixed, in my opinion. I believe that it looks much, much better than the current one. Does anyone disagree with this draft being implemented as the new project page? JimmyBlackwing ( talk) 04:39, 2 July 2011 (UTC)
Hey, we all seem to be pretty happy with Dorsal's sandbox as far as content goes. How are we feeling in terms of Muzemike's structure proposal? Do we want to try to merge the two together- to put Dorsal's content layout in Muzemike's rounded corners? -- Pres N 21:35, 5 July 2011 (UTC)
This should be put back in. Most active wikiprojects do this. Why? Our scope overlaps with thousands of articles from different projects. We might not have an answer here and so there should be an easy way to direct newbies to other projects that cover a vast majority of the same pages we do. What pages are included is debatable, but the lack of it goes against what is being designed here: to make the main page more newbie-friendly. 陣 内 Jinnai 03:00, 17 July 2011 (UTC)
We have some sources up for discussion at WP:VG/S again. Some additional comments wouldn't hurt. Prime Blue ( talk) 12:38, 19 July 2011 (UTC)
I'm no programmer, so this may well be a ridiculous question, but would it be possible for our Featured and Good content subpages to be updated by a bot? They usually lag far behind current events—understandable, given that they're a pain to update manually. JimmyBlackwing ( talk) 17:23, 18 July 2011 (UTC)
A user (See Special:Contributions/Darkness2005) spent yesterday making a a fair few edits where they changed the release region from EU to PAL; no refs were added or altered. The user also changed the dates on some articles without reference changes as well. - X201 ( talk) 10:41, 20 July 2011 (UTC)
I have noticed that many emulator (namely Sega ones) articles are being redirected to List of video game console emulators. Is there any way that members could satisfy the concerns that it is just a directory of mostly, if not all, non-notable articles by adding direct secondary references to the article, and the emulator articles it links to? Otherwise, I fear a widespread articles for deletion will be made across all these articles and the aforementioned list on the basis of that Wikipedia is not a directory, the "Emulator Zone", failure of meeting reliable sources and verifiability and failure of meeting notability policies and guidelines. -- tgheretford ( talk) 17:06, 17 July 2011 (UTC)
More reason to follow the merge procedure. I don't dispute that Marasmusine doesn't need to follow AFD. But following the link back to the redirect page is not obvious, since the "redirected from"... doesn't offer information as to whether the redirect page contains a history or was created directly as a redirect. Test it for yourself to understand what I mean. If you arrived at this page, how would you tell that this content existed in the redirect history? Diego ( talk) 13:29, 18 July 2011 (UTC)
User Darkquest21 recently went through and changed all instances of Microsoft Game Studios to Microsoft Studios per the recent rebranding at E3 2011. While he meant well we go by the historical name. I didn't think much of this as I figured a few of us could clean it up, but there are 250+ edits of this sort and I just don't have the time to do them all (I did the first page of 50 along with other users). Obviously unreleased games will likely have the new branding, but there's a big back catalog to fix. Can anyone help? -- Teancum ( talk) 13:26, 25 July 2011 (UTC)
A recent discussion on WP:MILHIST about simplifying their project structure and departments [5] made me think about whether a similar eye towards our own project might be in order. I'd say on first look that we're nowhere near as byzantine as MILHIST and never will be, owing to our demographics, but it might still be a good idea to see what departments are working, what are just a drain, and how we can trim down that looong VG sidebar to the right on this page. Thoughts? Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs( talk) 14:58, 31 May 2011 (UTC)
Let's get a consensus about switching the department to a guideline. Please state your position (support or oppose) and a reason why. ( Guyinblack25 talk 14:12, 7 June 2011 (UTC))
Looks like we have consensus. I assume we'll let this sit until all the discussions are done. But someone is welcome to take it upon themselves prior to that. ( Guyinblack25 talk 02:53, 15 June 2011 (UTC))
Next up is retiring our project's peer review. This might be a polarizing topic, so please be concise and assume good faith. ( Guyinblack25 talk 02:53, 15 June 2011 (UTC))
If no one minds, I'll start things up again. The question: should we retire the Collaboration of the Week drive? Please state your opinion below. JimmyBlackwing ( talk) 22:10, 21 June 2011 (UTC)
The discussion above was more complicated than expected, but it looks like everyone's had their say. Let's move on to another issue: ending support for internal article requests. As always, please state your opinion below. JimmyBlackwing ( talk) 05:18, 26 June 2011 (UTC)
Since it looks like most people want to keep the page, how can we improve it so that it functions better. I'm sure we can all agree that the backlog is too much, and I think that is were most of the support to shut down the page is rooted. Ideas? ( Guyinblack25 talk 15:10, 7 July 2011 (UTC))
Looks like the Requests page stays where it is. On to the next point, which isn't a straw poll so much as a discussion. Which parts of our current sidebar could/should be trimmed? JimmyBlackwing ( talk) 09:59, 7 July 2011 (UTC)
Hello maybe this is the wrong place to post. Can the engine be added to the sidebar? Has this been discussed? 108.28.30.122 ( talk) 03:34, 10 July 2011 (UTC)
Looks like everything's been hammered out. Here's what's been decided:
I don't feel comfortable performing any of these tasks, since my knowledge of Wikipedia's back end is very limited. Does anyone else mind starting in on the changes? JimmyBlackwing ( talk) 21:48, 24 July 2011 (UTC)
I've made one bold addition to the {{ vgrelease}} template, by adding a WW parameter for worldwide release (as noted, "INT" is for international releases which are different beasts altogether). However, unlike the other parameters, I have not included a rendered abbreviation in the output because if you are using WW, that pretty much implies that there should be no other entries (worldwide being implied broadly, so if a title comes out in NA, most of EU, Australia, but for some reason not in Germany until 2 weeks later, it's still effectively a world-wide release). However, if someone can come up with both a good clear abbreviation for world-wide and an article to link to like for the others, that can be added.
But I would like to add parameters that allow the vgrelease to bring in the system identifications as part of the date. That is, for the example of Limbo (video game), there would still be four vgrelease templtes, but each one would bring in the system information. I propose it be done ala the following: {{vgrelease|system1=[[Xbox 360]]|system1sub=[[Xbox Live Arcade]]|system2=[[PlayStation 3]]|system2sub=[[PlayStation Network]]|NA=Jan 1, 2012|EU=Jan 12, 2012}} The system parameters would be completely optional and would not render anything if not present; making this change does not break any existing use of vgrelease. But if present, would render the text as such:
I'd probably include 3-4 system parameters, that would account for most from there. Note that this covers one cohesive set of release dates for one product on one or more systems. If there are multiple release dates in a region, you would still need a separate one for each. (Eg , Limbo would still require 4 vgrelease templates to cover all those date points) -- MASEM ( t) 15:26, 27 July 2011 (UTC)
These go all the way back to 1993. Mind you, they are for more influential titles, so if you're looking for sources on obscure games, may need to look elsewhere. -- MASEM ( t) 13:55, 28 July 2011 (UTC)
Anyone interested in improving Metal Gear this month? It's kind of a mess, but I don't think that taking it up to B-Class would be out of the question. JimmyBlackwing ( talk) 06:21, 30 July 2011 (UTC)
Hello, I posted a message in Talk:Rugrats: Search for Reptar, but nobody answered me. Can you see this please ? The article is a Good Article, so this is important ! MicroCitron ( talk) 14:39, 30 July 2011 (UTC)
I have seen a commonly recurring issue of "Valve" (among others, example) being listed as a distributor for games that use Steam/was released on Steam. The practice doesn't seem correct to me, Valve do not perform an active role in the distribution, they are licensing their software/platform/drm to whoever is publishing the game, and performing an online retail role. Anyone have any thoughts on this? Яehevkor ✉ 19:06, 30 July 2011 (UTC)
I noticed a user alphabetizing platforms Microsoft Windows, Playstation 3, XBox 360, which strikes me as very odd. It seems to me they should either be sorted Playstation 3, Microsoft Windows (ignoring the Microsoft), XBox 360, or Microsoft Windows, Microsoft XBox 360, Sony Playstation 3. I understand the current sorting is based off of the article titles, but that doesn't seem appropriate for alphabetizing. Just thought I'd bring that up. Some guy ( talk) 15:08, 1 August 2011 (UTC)
Some additional comments are needed here with regards of the existence (or possible non-existence) of the NEC PC-9801 and Sharp X68000 versions of Dragon Warrior, as it looks like we're going to likely edit war over this. Any additional comments to help resolve this at Talk:Dragon Warrior#PC-9801 and X68000 ports would be greatly appreciated. – MuZemike 03:25, 2 August 2011 (UTC)
at the talk page for Call of Duty someone is trying to add the mention of COD in Brevik's 'manifesto'. I have reverted, citing WP:NOTNEWS and WP:RECENTISM. Now the account that I have been discussing with is asking for input over at the talk page of the article on the killer. I could use more eyes on this, as, I may be completely off base in my interpretation, or I may be right. Either way, please take a look. Dbrodbeck ( talk) 19:04, 3 August 2011 (UTC)
G-Zay has brought the project way over the limits of disruption with his constant disregard of community consensus, edit warring and his addition of fanboyistic original research and misleading sources. ANI has failed to act even after all of his disruptions, and he does not show a semblance of remorse despite the countless warnings and reverts he has gotten from multiple project members. Consider this the last-ditch effort, because there's not much more I can do beyond that. Prime Blue ( talk) 20:53, 3 August 2011 (UTC)
I wanted to put out a message that I've put Luigi and Wario under peer review at here and here respectively. The reviews haven't gotten much attention, but the articles deserve review. Please spread the word! -- Nathan2055 talk 22:39, 3 August 2011 (UTC)
I noticed in part with TurboGuy adding a timeline to Halo (series)#Games, but in trying to run through the syntax myself I eventually gave up. Does anyone know how to make these sorts of timelines go in descending order, from earliest to latest, rather than the mind-numbingly stupid latest-to-earliest format that they seem to take by default? Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs( talk) 16:08, 30 July 2011 (UTC)
{{
Video game titles}}
and {{
Video game titles/item}}
? We could have something like "Vertical timeline", which would provide the basic wiki-table framework, and "/item", which would insert the rows and text. Any thoughts? (
Guyinblack25
talk 17:03, 5 August 2011 (UTC))
In the last few weeks, most editors who brought up new sources at our discussion page usually just asked if the site could be considered reliable, which left the repliers with the research work. I think an edit notice on the page would help streamline the process a bit, and to create more well-prepared discussions.
If you begin a new discussion at the bottom of this page, please explain why the source should be considered reliable or unreliable. A strong rationale addresses:
|
An example. Any further suggestions? Prime Blue ( talk) 16:02, 3 August 2011 (UTC)
Given that we reached the 500 GA goal relatively quickly and I don't think we're going to slow down, listing the GA goal seems a bit pointless to me. Not that it isn't something we shouldn't strive for, but I'm sure we're going to do it just as fast with or without that goal listed. How about switching it out for something else? ( Guyinblack25 talk 14:20, 26 July 2011 (UTC))
I'd Say getting a percentage of our articles b class or higher would be a good goal. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs( talk) 18:40, 26 July 2011 (UTC)
I think stubs would be a good idea. I mean, aside from merging or deletion (and if such a stub article should be kept separate, it should be a primary topic or at least have enough substantive material to stand alone, and justify why it should be stand-alone), who wouldn't want to see stubs expanded? The problem is that we have so many that it would be difficult to sustain, not to mention, as I had to explain in a recent AFD, some of these articles are going to be very hard to find sources for coverage, as many of them can only be found in print, as well as in another language. – MuZemike 01:05, 27 July 2011 (UTC)
We have 27 Hign Importance articles that are Stubs, how about improving them from Stub class to A or B class? - X201 ( talk) 08:45, 27 July 2011 (UTC)
In the trailer for the video game I thought I recognized the voice as being Daniel Tosh of Tosh.O.I would like to know as to how to find the identity behind the voice. Any one have any suggestions? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.76.205.186 ( talk) 07:53, August 7, 2011 (UTC)
Hi, about the refs in the Final Fantasy article, I'm not sure refs with videos like GameTrailers can be archived. My doubt is: Can videos be loaded when they are archived? T.R.Elven ( talk) 17:28, 4 August 2011 (UTC)
Internet Archive does not work. For example, this link is used as a reference in Final Fantasy. The page loads up OK, it even archives the flash object, but that flash object actually pulls subobjects from the gametrailers domain. In this case, the actual video it points to is at http://trailers-ak.gametrailers.com/gt_vault/4831/t_finalffantasy_retrospective_pt2_gt.flv If that goes down, then your archive link will not work. You may be able to archive the video directly to avoid this, but I'm not sure if Internet Archive supports this. - hahnch e n 19:45, 5 August 2011 (UTC)
An adoptee of mine has asked about a merger of Scribblenauts and Super Scribblenauts. Could someone take a look at the discussion page and tell me what they think? Ryan Vesey Review me! 22:51, 8 August 2011 (UTC)
Does this table have enough redlinks? SharkD Talk 01:58, 1 August 2011 (UTC)
Hello all, I need input regarding what people think it's appropriate to list in a video game article please! I'm having a bit of trouble with an editor who believes that listing as much as possible is desirable in the Pro Evolution Soccer 2012 article, and reverts if these are removed. The problem is that he won't discuss it, other than the short exchange on my talk page where I tried to explain about WP:NOT and the lists bit on WP:VG/GL, but to no avail. Haven't had a word out of him since then, despite another editor also attempting to engage him on his talk page and on the article talk page. Lists are a pretty major problem with most if not all the Pro Evolution Soccer articles - for example in Pro Evolution Soccer 2011 (the most recently released version) we have lists for the following:
In other articles in the series we also find lists for players featured on the covers, teams playable in the demos, unplayable teams, unlicensed league teams, game modes, "balls"... some of the early games have such lists as individual players and even phrases you might hear the commentators say. IMO of primary concern is preventing this happening to Pro Evolution Soccer 2012, though edits to tidy up the older articles have been reverted by the same editor too. From what's been said before in various discussions on the rival FIFA (video game series), it's OK to list the leagues featured as they're really the major element of these games (and are easily sourceable) and give the reader an idea of what teams, players, stadiums, etc., are included anyway. And it's OK to list the soundtrack if it has had its own separate release or is otherwise notable. While the FIFA articles used to be just as list-heavy as the Pro Evo articles are at the moment, they have been pretty stable with just these two lists in each one for a couple of years now, and I think it's time Pro Evo followed suit. So, what I'm looking for here is a consensus of what lists are appropriate to these articles. Please comment! Miremare 19:36, 7 August 2011 (UTC)
I have placed Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars up for a community GAR here. Please make comments and Support or Oppose if you think it should be demoted or it should keep its GA status. GamerPro64 15:53, 9 August 2011 (UTC)
I noticed that a lot of VG categories have been speedily moved today (all highlighted by this diff). I'm not exactly sure of the convention for this, but many of these categories have added what seems like unnecessary disambiguation such as Category:Imagineering games moving to Category:Imagineering (company) games, and Category:Athena games to Category:Athena (company) games. Presumably this change was made because the article on the company is disambiguated with "(company)", but do we need that to filter down into categories where there is no need for such disambiguation? Other than the company, there is no other "Athena" that makes games, and if there were, "company" wouldn't disambiguate between the two anyway.
Also there are have been a fair few cases of seemingly redundant "Games" being added such as Category:Blue Fang games to Category:Blue Fang Games games, and Category:Firaxis games to Category:Firaxis Games games. I know that the "Games" is part of the company name in these cases, but is that really necessary? Miremare 15:13, 10 August 2011 (UTC)
I'm not a member of the project, but wanted to drop a note: I've run into issues with anons/SPAs running around listing OnLive in the "platforms" field of video game infoboxes, and adding the dates the games were added to the service to the list of release dates. I don't use OnLive, but my understanding is that it is not a platform but a service, like Netflix. One can play games via OnLive, but the platform is a PC/Mac, just as one can watch movies via Netflix but the platform is an Xbox/Wii/PC/etc. It seems akin to saying that "the internet" is a platform. It's certainly not a "console or operating system", which is what the infobox documentation describes as what's intended to go in the field. In fact one needs to be running one of a list of supported operating systems in order to use OnLive. It certainly doesn't seem pertinent to list what date OnLine began offering some game from the 1990s, just as it doesn't seem to be pertinent to list the dates on which old movies were made available for streaming on Netflix. What are others' thoughts on this? -- IllaZilla ( talk) 06:27, 11 August 2011 (UTC)
I know, this has be discussed to death, but I'm really struggling to back folks up on the 'not a platform' debate, though I used to feel differently. What I'm proposing discussion on this time around is different than past ones. All I'm proposing is that we allow it to be listed in the infobox. Arguments can and have been made on both sides with sources to back them up, usually the result of WP:SYNTH to make the point. But if there's plenty of evidence on either side I'd submit that we can't simply ignore that several sources list it as a platform. Is it any different than a Roku device that streams Netflix and other video services? (for the uninitiated, Netflix would not be the platform -- Roku streams several types of media and has its own frontend) It's a device which allows play of a game -- the distribution method is irrelevant. The device has its own frontend/dashboard that it uses to interface with the player and stream data back and forth. If OnLive magically had a disc peripheral we're suddenly going to change our minds? In the end it is the device that allows someone to play the game, the fact that all the horsepower is on the other end of the connection seems like a moot argument, especially when nobody truly knows what platform those games are using on the other side.
I think the issue is that it's a dual-nature name. There's OnLive the device, and there's the OnLive service. Differentiating between the two is something we need to do. The device is, for all intents and purposes, a platform. Sources that understand that list it as such, while others focus on it as a service such as Xbox Live while ignoring what the player has in their hands. -- Teancum ( talk) 13:10, 3 August 2011 (UTC)
|platforms=
as it is not a true computing platform. Even for a rough consensus, it pretty much settles the base issue for any anon/editor arguing. I doubt anything has changed since. We don't call a beer tap "brewery", just because all the back-end is invisible to the customer. Btw, what sources describe it is as a platform? And not GameSpot listing it together with Windows and using the buzzword "platform" in the same way they use "next-gen" ^^. But as an actual article or news piece describing it as a
computing platform, which is what the field is for and which is what the game studios decided upon as the first thing. I highly doubt there will be games any time soon where we won't know the platform. OnLive is just an added bonus. In very broad terms -- OnLive device is just a TV adapter that can stream stuff; OnLive service is just a web-page to buy game-time. —
HELLKNOWZ ▎
TALK 13:42, 3 August 2011 (UTC)
|platform=
. —
HELLKNOWZ ▎
TALK 14:05, 3 August 2011 (UTC)
Any change or maintenance of the status quo, ought to consider similar services ( Category:Cloud gaming) as well. - X201 ( talk) 07:39, 4 August 2011 (UTC)
As per previous discussions, OnLive is not a platform. It's a service layer between the platform and the end user - the game still runs on Windows. - hahnch e n 12:59, 12 August 2011 (UTC)
Hi,
I'm not sure if this is the correct place to post this, but I just wanted to draw your attention to some suggestions I've made on the Kinect Sports and Kinect Sports: Season Two discussion pages. I wasn't sure if anyone gets notified when new content is posted to those pages or if I just needed to wait for someone to 'find' them?
I work for Rare (the makers of Kinect Sports) on their Web & Community team, and am aware of the issues relating to conflict of interest that prevent me from making any changes to these pages myself. I therefore thought the best approach would be to make my suggestions on the discussion pages for independent editors to consider and (where appropriate) action.
Hopefully this falls withing the Wikipedia guidelines, I'd be grateful if someone could get back to me with some feedback!
Thanks very much,
-- Neal - Rare Ltd ( talk) 08:00, 11 August 2011 (UTC)
I'm wanting to take away the crutch that several Major League Gaming articles have. Many use majorleaguegaming.com as a means to establish notability, a primary source. Please join the discussion at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Video games/Sources#MLGPro as situational. Thanks much. -- Teancum ( talk) 12:53, 12 August 2011 (UTC)
I was after more opinions for the Reception section on Ballance. An IP editor is removing it because it is too favourable despite it being sourced by a review article at Adrenaline Vault. I suggested that balance would be achieved by the addition of a more critical review article but they just removed the section again. - Shiftchange ( talk) 14:51, 12 August 2011 (UTC)
On Monday August 15th, the project will have its first ever Featured List on Today's Featured List with the List of Donkey Kong video games. Hopefully we will have more in the future. GamerPro64 20:26, 13 August 2011 (UTC)
Guys, just a quick cry for help here, I did a quick "check links" scan and seems that the list has six deadlinks, all to Gamespot. Would be most appreciative if these can be fixed before the list hits main page. The Rambling Man ( talk) 17:36, 14 August 2011 (UTC)
As a side comment, it's one of the good things why Featured Lists are now featured on the Main Page, in that they are scrutinized much more before and during its time on the Main Page. – MuZemike 18:02, 14 August 2011 (UTC)
Some IPs and myself are revert-warring over how to summarize the OPM review. I'm mentioning gameplay-specific elements, with the explicit score, while they mention comparison with other games without the score itself. Opinions would be welcomed. Headbomb { talk / contribs / physics / books} 03:18, 15 August 2011 (UTC)
User:Kaldari has brought up some questions about the format of today's current WP:TFL, List of Donkey Kong video games, which is used in many other of our project's featured lists such as List of The Legend of Zelda media and List of Space Invaders video games. As such, I thought it might warrant further comment from other editors in the WikiProject: the discussion can be seen here. Nomader ( talk) 06:00, 15 August 2011 (UTC)
I've been wondering if Category:Crafting video games is an encyclopaedic category and if it doesn't violate WP:OVERCAT? It seems a bit arbitrary to categorize games based on individual features. It does not look like there are many other category examples like this. I would think this is similar to categorizing something like Category:Video games featuring weapons. I haven't spent too much time looking at VG categories, so I'm asking here first before possible CfD. — HELLKNOWZ ▎ TALK 10:18, 7 August 2011 (UTC)
I have CfDed the category at Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2011_August_17#Category:Crafting_video_games and took the liberty of copying the above replies there. — HELLKNOWZ ▎ TALK 16:48, 17 August 2011 (UTC)
I just updated Wikipedia:WikiProject Video games/Featured content to better describe everything listed. Some one may want to give it look to see if further edits are necessary. I also added Robin Hunicke and Circle strafing in Featured picture and Former featured sections. Did I miss any other pictures or other Featured content? ( Guyinblack25 talk 16:14, 16 August 2011 (UTC))
An anon has been placing external links in various articles [12] [13] from IMDB. Since that site is reliable, can it used as an external link? I also had the same questions with the wikias which are being added in various articles. Regards. Tintor2 ( talk) 16:25, 17 August 2011 (UTC)
Doing some edits in preparation for Dragon Warrior's FAC, several people outside of the project have had trouble understanding the usage of Famicom (and Super Famicom) and some copyedits have changed it to the NES/SNES respectively. Others have simply had outright confusion as to what they are are.
The issue with Dragon Warrior comes with the whole section devoted to its localization and people get confused because they assume its for a different system; that the Famicom and NES are not in any way related.
So with that said, should we use the NES/SNES names and only mention the first instance that the system is called something different, ie "The NES (known in Japan as the Famicom)...", only use it for Japanese exclusive titles or not at all? 陣 内 Jinnai 15:15, 4 August 2011 (UTC)
To me (and also as Blake pointed out above), it always depends on context. Another example would be whether to use "Sega Genesis" or "Sega Mega Drive" – if a 16-bit Sega game was released only in North America, then it would make sense to call say "Sega Genesis"; however, if a game only came out in Europe or was primarily known there, then "Sega Mega Drive" would be OK. In the context of Dragon Warrior, the 16-bit remake was only released in Japan, so it makes sense to call it by the Japanese name of the system, the "Super Famicom". – MuZemike 17:23, 4 August 2011 (UTC)
For what it's worth, there aren't all that many games relevant to the NES that are so different on the Famicom that it's worth noting the Famicom in particular. Most games that are Famicom-specific are either Japan-only games or are games that were made specifically for the Famicom and took advantage of features only available on that system (like Famicom Disk System games - Zelda, Metroid, etc.). This is even less the case for SNES/Super Famicom games, since (to my knowledge) very few cross-region SNES games used SuperFam-specific features. So I agree with stating NES/SNES since that's what the majority of our readers are likely to know, except for special cases. — KieferSkunk ( talk) — 03:51, 6 August 2011 (UTC)
I previously stated that I was in favor of using "NES/SNES" in general situations, but a discussion on Talk:List of Donkey Kong video games has me thinking I should clarify my position: I think that when a singular release has occurred for both Famicom and NES at the same general time, or when the time doesn't matter (all we're saying is that it's out on both), then just saying "NES" instead of "NES/Famicom" should be fine. But in more specific instances, like the one being debated at the DK list, I think we should stick with the most accurate and specific term that applies to the entry in question.
In the specific case of the DK list, I disputed a reference to DK being released on the NES in 1983, two years before the American NES itself was released. I felt that saying it had been released in 1983 on that console was confusing and misleading - someone would have to know a lot about the history of the game and the consoles to realize that we really meant "Famicom" there. The fix I put in place for that specific entry was to go ahead and say "Famicom" for 1983, and make a separate entry for "NES" in 1985. But that, of course, might cause some confusion because now we're talking about two apparently-different systems, and again someone MIGHT need to have advanced knowledge to know the relationship between them. But IMO, that's what the article link is for - if someone goes "What's a Famicom?" and clicks on it, they'll be taken to the NES article which has info on the Japanese version.
Nutshell: I think the best policy is to use the more common name when both apply, to reduce wordiness and awkward referencing, but to be as specific and accurate as possible (within reason, of course) when referring to a specific instance. To me, DK in 1983 on the NES is wrong, but to say the game had been released in the 1980s on the NES would be accurate. Does that make sense? — KieferSkunk ( talk) — 21:03, 22 August 2011 (UTC)
Certainly not. Wikipedia only stresses to use common names for article names, while still listing the alternative names. What's important is that we don't go by just one name over another, omitting the other name completely (like some have suggested here in regards to Famicom). If (if) my understanding is correct, and more text has been generated about it by North American based writers, and more people in North America know about Sega's 16-bit console than the people in other countries, then, isn't that common name? Not only that but Sega's 16-bit console was introduced to English natives as the Sega Genesis, before the PAL release of the Mega Drive.-- Sexy Kick 12:53, 12 August 2011 (UTC)
This is the proposed worded for WP:VG/GL. Note I'm including games here also because they'd follow similar practices.
For systems and games, English terms are proffered over foreign ones when the difference would be beyond those who do not have the history and/or technical knowledge to tell the difference. For example, while the Famicom is not quite the same as the NES the differences are so minor that they are generally considered the same system. For systems with multiple English names, the one most widely cited by reliable sources should be used. For example, Sega Genesis is more widely used than Sega Mega Drive. Articles should generally avoid mention of the foreign names unless there is a good reason, such as it being part of the title, there are changes that rely on one of those specific regional versions, etc.
I'm not sure if we should allow foreign-released titles only to be automatically exempted. I'm not in favor of this after considering it because in most circumstances you can explain things with the descriptor "Japanese" or whatever country it is.
Thought? 陣 内 Jinnai 01:04, 17 August 2011 (UTC)
I'm never too certain on how to interpret things like #5 at Wikipedia:Naming_conventions_(video_games)#Disambiguation. The article does meet the requirements (three video game articles, with the third one still announced but yet-to-be-released, with plenty of extra related articles like comic books, etc.) So is it time to move the article? Personally I just went to Mass Effect and just assumed that it would be the series article since the popularity of the series rises with each new entry, rather than the first game in the series having had an immediate impact when it was first released, so most references to "Mass Effect" would, I think, be to the series rather than the first game. Gary King ( talk · scripts) 23:29, 16 August 2011 (UTC)
This article has been constantly moved because editors can not decide what its name should be. It has been moved to Nexon Co. Ltd. but I believe it should stay at Nexon Korea Corporation as they refer to their company as such on their official website. I'm not sure about the guidelines for the article so I'm hoping an experienced editor would take a look at the article and tag it under the right project. Thanks! DragonZero ( Talk · Contribs) 01:02, 18 August 2011 (UTC)
Devil May Cry (video game) will be up on TFA tomorrow. However, it may need some improvement, like more info in the article's lead. GamerPro64 02:34, 22 August 2011 (UTC)
There seems to be a decently-sized gulf between the way Wikipedia:WikiProject Video games/Assessment defines the various article classes, and the way they're used by editors. The following three are articles I've recently started--I know it'd be more objective to link articles others started, but I don't really have the time spare to research at the moment--which have been rated as Start (the first) and Stub (the latter two): iCade, iControlPad, Nyko Wand. While I may have some personal bias as to their quality, I think it'd be quite neutral to say their ratings as defined by the project seem not to line up with their status.
Class | Criteria | Reader's experience | Editing suggestions | Example |
---|---|---|---|---|
Start | An article that is developing, but which is quite incomplete and may require further reliable sources. More detailed criteria
The article has a usable amount of good content but is weak in many areas. Quality of the prose may be distinctly unencyclopedic, and
MoS compliance non-existent; but the article should satisfy fundamental content policies such as
notability and
BLP, and provide sources to establish
verifiability. No Start-Class article should be in any danger of being
speedily deleted.
|
Provides some meaningful content, but the majority of readers will need more. | Provision of references to reliable sources should be prioritised; the article will also need substantial improvements in content and organisation. |
Real analysis (as of November 2006) |
Stub | A very basic description of the topic. More detailed criteria
The article is either a very short article or a rough collection of information that will need much work to become a meaningful article. It is usually very short, but if the material is irrelevant or incomprehensible, an article of any length falls into this category.
|
Provides very little meaningful content; may be little more than a dictionary definition. | Any editing or additional material can be helpful. The provision of meaningful content should be a priority. |
Geodia gibberosa (as of July 2009) |
"Very little meaningful content" doesn't seem to me like an accurate description of the iControlPad or Nyko Wand articles, and contrary to the definition ("quite incomplete"), the iCade article is about as complete as it's possible to be for a niche topic like this. It covers the device's development, a laymen-friendly description of the technical concepts behind it, the device's reception, and the only really incomplete part, the list of compatible software, which is the nature of lists of current-gen software releases. I'm not taking these descriptors personally at all--they're Wikipedia articles, not Vague Rant articles, and the definitions pretty clearly don't apply, so there's very little to be offended by. I have noticed this tendency toward low quality-class rankings on other articles, so I'm just trying to gauge whether the project feels the issue is in application or definition of the classes.
If anyone desires to reclassify these articles, that's fine, but not really the purpose of this discussion, as the phenomenon is far more widespread than the few I've noted here. - Vague | Rant 18:50, 17 August 2011 (UTC)
I just noticed this at GAN. It thought that articles about unreleased games were ineligible for GA and FA unless the industry had deemed it vaporware. Unless the article is not current and the game has been canceled. ( Guyinblack25 talk 22:30, 23 August 2011 (UTC))
I have quick-failed the GAN, as PresN is right. No way that article is going to be stable until sometime after its release, preferably after all the hype and buzz have quieted down. – MuZemike 22:56, 23 August 2011 (UTC)
I'm certain that we discourage articles like Comparison of Donkey Kong ports without a massive amount of third-party sources directly about the topic. But I'm not certain if we redirect or delete such pages. Should I take it to AfD or start a discussion to redirect it? ( Guyinblack25 talk 16:48, 18 August 2011 (UTC))
Metal Gear has seen drastic improvement since it became the COTM. User:Tintor2, User:Game-Guru999 and I (but mostly Tintor) have been working on it without any real game plan or intentional collaboration, but the article is looking much better than it was before the drive. Seems like making it monthly instead of weekly really was a better idea. Considering the jump in quality, I bumped it from C-Class to B-Class. If anyone else wants to tweak the article, the more the merrier. JimmyBlackwing ( talk) 22:50, 19 August 2011 (UTC)
What should we go with for ratings in the infobox and prose? Specificially I'm asking when a rating was changed due to structural changes, such as those with CERO rating. Should the initial or latest rating go in the infobox? How do you add the rating to the prose (probably under release) when you don't have date changes? I'm asking because Oshiete! Popotan was changed from CERO 18 to CERO D. I don't have any dates for this as the packaging wasn't changed I just found out because of an edit to the infobox. 陣 内 Jinnai 23:31, 22 August 2011 (UTC)
There are several listings on Wikipedia:WikiProject Video games/Article alerts of Zynga games, though the nominations weren't completed, including games like Cityville. At first glance they don't look like they're eligible for deletion in the first place. Not sure what to do, um help? Someone another 20:41, 25 August 2011 (UTC)
I know this may just be looking for trouble, but I can't stand this anymore.
I'm dealing with two editors who insist on doing things their way, while claiming that I'm doing the same. I've been able to refute nearly every point brought up (because a lot of it simply didn't hold) and they haven't even bothered to take any of it into consideration, immediately going after very specific statements. This really tells me that they are not interested in why the article should stay or go, and they do not seem to understand that this sort of logic must apply across the encyclopedia, and last I checked we don't do things like this. For the sake of reason, can someone please help me out here? Despatche ( talk) 00:58, 27 August 2011 (UTC)
The video game The King of Fighters XIII is going to be released in consoles for the PS3 and Xbox 360, but both ports feature notably different artwork: Xbox image and the PS3 image. Since the previous image, the game logo, did not provide too much illustration, I replaced it with a console cover, but mayber a poster would be more suitable. Any thoughts? Regards. Tintor2 ( talk) 02:28, 28 August 2011 (UTC)
Hello, there is a bot approval request at WP:BRFA/H3llBot 9 for adding wikilinks to work/publisher fields where the entity can be unambiguously identified from a pre-selected list. Since I want to run video game article first, giving a ping here too. Comments welcome, thanks. — HELLKNOWZ ▎ TALK 16:20, 28 August 2011 (UTC)
A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Ripples (video game) is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.
The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Ripples (video game) until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on good quality evidence, and our policies and guidelines.
Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion template from the top of the article. RJaguar3 | u | t 20:14, 28 August 2011 (UTC)
The featured topic I'm working toward is " Looking Glass Studios games". This naturally excludes the company's main article and the ones for its employees. The articles I plan to include are List of video games developed by Looking Glass Studios, Ultima Underworld: The Stygian Abyss, Ultima Underworld II: Labyrinth of Worlds, System Shock, Flight Unlimited, Terra Nova: Strike Force Centauri, British Open Championship Golf, Flight Unlimited II, Thief: The Dark Project, System Shock 2, Flight Unlimited III, Thief II: The Metal Age and Jane's Attack Squadron.
But I still don't know if this scope is appropriate. Looking Glass's history was very messy. They went through at least three name changes, one or two mergers, and the attribution nightmare that was Jane's Attack Squadron, a game canceled because of the company's 2000 bankruptcy and finished/released by a different company.
The problems start at the beginning of the company's life. Paul Neurath and Ned Lerner went to college together in the early '80s, worked together on an Elite knockoff called Deep Space, and then separated. Lerner worked on a few flight games, including the then-acclaimed Chuck Yeager's Advanced Flight Trainer (1987); Neurath joined Origin Systems and made Space Rogue (1989). At some point during this time (sources get foggy through here), Lerner founded a company called Lerner Research. Again at some point, his company began developing a game called Car & Driver. In 1990, Neurath founded Blue Sky Productions to make what would become Ultima Underworld. The team used code from Lerner Research programmers, including assembly code straight out of Car & Driver, to create a prototype of Underworld. During the game's development, Lerner helped to fund the team and Lerner Research programmer Chris Green created the all-important texture mapping algorithm for it.
Car & Driver and Underworld were both released in 1992; the latter in March, the former at an undefined time. Underworld's opening credits identify Blue Sky Productions as the developer. That year, the two companies merged to form Looking Glass Technologies. The Lerner Research part of the team was the one that moved. There's rough evidence that Car & Driver was in the final stages of development after the merge. When it was released, the box attributed it to Lerner Research. The opening screen reads "Looking Glass Technologies".
Now for the questions. Since Looking Glass was the result of a merger, should games from both halves of the company count as "Looking Glass games"? That's not the standard practice of video game history writers. Normally, Blue Sky is considered to be just an early name for Looking Glass. It's kind of understandable, since the vast majority of the employees from this time who went on to be counted as "Looking Glass employees" were from the Blue Sky part of the company. But in a 1992 post-merger interview, Neurath estimates that only half of the company's employees were originally Blue Sky people. Perhaps all pre-merger games should be left out? Again, it's not in the sources. Standard practice is to place Underworld at the beginning of Looking Glass's history. Even when we consider these factors, the placement of Car & Driver does not become clearer. Was it a Lerner Research game or a Looking Glass game? How do we decide when the sources almost never discuss it? In short, I have no idea what to do.
Next up we have the ports. LG created several ports for other companies' games during its lifetime. These include Madden '93 for the Genesis, Command & Conquer for the N64 and Destruction Derby 64. None of these appear to be viable for splitting. But what do I do? Consider them unconnected and leave them as they are? Fix up these articles that are only slightly connected to my topic scope? Again, I'm at a loss.
Then we have Jane's Attack Squadron. Last time I asked about it here, I was told to include it. I'd like a few more opinions, though. To avoid having to write another massive paragraph of history, I'll just direct you here. The game's absurdly convoluted development cycle is briefly addressed in that section.
Thanks for having the patience to read this giant text-wall. I look forward to resolving these problems, as they've been worrying me for quite awhile. JimmyBlackwing ( talk) 23:34, 26 August 2011 (UTC)