This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 40 | ← | Archive 43 | Archive 44 | Archive 45 | Archive 46 | Archive 47 | → | Archive 49 |
Hey, I don't really know where to post something like this so I'm posting it here. While I was working on Tropical cyclones in 2000, I found that Michael's section (which i'm 99% sure is accurate) says that it was 155 km/h and that it lasted from October 15-19, while the Season effects says it was 175 km/h, and the Seasonal summary says that it lasted from October 10-15. Apparently this has been around since around ~2007, I can't remember exactly. The 1999–2000 Australian region cyclone season as well has some inconsistencies with the stats on the storm infoboxes and the season effects differing slightly (I'm somewhat sure that the stats shown on the season effects are 1-min). I'm concerned because there may be more inaccurate information lurking on old articles that haven't been spotted and have been propagating through places like in Tropical cyclones by year where many articles are still incomplete. Akber mamps ! 02:01, 11 February 2021 (UTC)
I think there are some issues with the titles of articles summarizing Atlantic hurricanes prior to the year 1800. The titles of List of Atlantic hurricanes in the 17th century and List of Atlantic hurricanes in the 18th century disagree with their article contents. The 17th century comprises the years 1601-1700, but the article covers the years 1600-1699; the 18th century article has the same issue. Either the title should be changed to reflect the 1600s, or the content changed to exclude 1600 and add 1700. I prefer changing the title; I believe "the 1600s" is a more intuitive grouping of years than "the 17th century." Using "the 1600s" in the title makes it much easier to know at a glance what years the article will cover, and to select the right link from a list or in an autocompleting field. Just consider how much more quickly you could answer the question, "What years were in the 1600s?" versus "What years were in the 17th century?" and what the chances are that someone asked each question gets the answer wrong. To be more in keeping with articles about later time periods, like 1800s Atlantic hurricane seasons and 2020 Atlantic hurricane season, I would like to suggest 1600s Atlantic hurricanes and 1700s Atlantic hurricanes. But if people have a strong preference that the titles continue to start with "List of," I don't object. In addition, the article title " Pre-1600 Atlantic hurricane seasons" strikes me as incorrectly stating that the article is about hurricane seasons, when it is about individual hurricanes. This article is about a time earlier than the 1600s and 1700s, when less was known about meteorology and especially tropical meteorology, yet the article title seems to suggest that this article would be more meteorologically rigorous than those about later hurricanes. I suggest moving that article to Pre-1600 Atlantic hurricanes, again with "List of" being acceptable if widely preferred. A change along these lines for pre-1600 was discussed a decade ago here and seemed to build some consensus, but the conversation fizzled out and it was not implemented. -- DavidK93 ( talk) 09:27, 10 February 2021 (UTC)
A requested move discussion has been initiated for Tropical Storm Abby to be moved to List of storms named Abby. This page is of interest to this WikiProject and interested members may want to participate in the discussion here. — RMCD bot 20:05, 13 February 2021 (UTC)
I do not know if anyone has noticed this, unless this has been left on purpose. But the "Tropical Depression" (MFR) category in the SWio basin has a rather light-blue colour. I am sure that all "TD" category colour in all basin articles have a dark-blue colour. TD 09 for example just shows the difference. It would be nice to have consistency. I really just do not know how to fix this; the coding looks a little bit complicated for me I might mess things up. Thanks. Typhoon2013 (talk) 05:30, 17 February 2021 (UTC)
(1) Very Intense Tropical Cyclone Faraji 2000Z | (2) Intense Tropical Cyclone Faraji 0810Z |
---|---|
Hello everyone. I wanted to bring this discussion here, as there is some trouble with two images of Cyclone Faraji, and which one should be used in the Tropical cyclones in 2021 article, and to a lesser extent, in the 2020–21 South-West Indian Ocean cyclone season article. The original discussion, at talk:Tropical cyclones in 2021#Image of Cyclone Faraji garnered little attention, and so I want to reach more of a consensus for which image would be better for both articles. It should be noted that I support the second image, as based on references and the image itself, the second image appears to show the cyclone closer to its peak, than image one does. However, I will leave the decision to others. Also, I did add the second image to the 2020–21 South-West Indian Ocean cyclone season article, but was reverted, with the person stating that the cyclone is not at the peak. However, I re-reverted and asked why the cyclone looks better in the image I added, rather than the image that they stated was the peak. I was re-reverted again, and was sent to a ref that states that it peaked at 1850z, though I also saw some refs that said that it peaked earlier in the day, However, I will not engage further until we know for sure which one is better. These are the two images in question: 🌀 Cyclone Football 71🏈 | sandbox 18:42, 17 February 2021 (UTC)
I would also like to add that on the Tropical cyclones in 2021 article, putting the Eloise image which is also that strange milky filter on top of yet another image with that same filter just looks bad aesthetically. Either Eloise should be its true color image (which I doubt we will use since it's far enough from peak) or the Faraji image, which is if barely only a tiny bit past the peak strength and looks like a healthier storm. This situation is practically identical to the one to do with Hurricane Delta, and sometimes the image of peak strength just isn't good enough."We typically include whatever image has the better satellite presentation, so not necessarily at peak intensity", Hurricanehink concluded. Hurricaneboy23 (page) * (talk) 15:36, 21 February 2021 (UTC)
Since Tropical Storm Linfa has been brought back from the dead by @ MarioJump83: following its retirement. I decided it was time I could give the article a second chance since the chaotic series of floods has ended (since 2020 is over, anyway). Throughout today I've been updating impacts and preparations and its become increasingly obvious to me there is plenty of Vietnamese media coverage on the storm that wasn't used and is yet to be used. The section of 2020 Central Vietnam floods only seems to capture a portion of the coverage from Linfa, even excluding the meteorological history and the records broken from the individual tropical cyclone, which is largely why the merge was flawed. And since the merge moratorium, I think its time to give Linfa a second chance instead of just covering a very small portion of the storm in a much larger article.
I am hoping other editors will help, since a storm which killed hundreds of people by itself and which in itself laid the groundwork for much of the later floods in Central Vietnam in 2020 needs a storm article.
tl;dr What I'm basically asking is if anyone will be willing to help me expand on this article and hopefully make it quality enough that it doesn't have to be merged again... Hurricaneboy23 (page) * (talk) 21:20, 21 February 2021 (UTC)
I've done my best to combine the best of both {{ Storm colour}} and {{ Tc nom list}} to create a exhaustive list of every single storm category code we use, mapped to their appropriate colors and category names. The result is this module, which I've checked with the aforementioned templates for compatibility (such tests you can find on its documentation page).
Since the state of {{Storm colour}} and {{Tc nom list}} right now is extremely messy (what can be used in {{Storm colour}} isn't the same as those in {{Tc nom list}}, vice versa), I wanted to change both templates to use this module, as this provides an easier way of adding in categories, and also allows both templates to use the same list of category codes. Since this is a (possibly) breaking change (although I don't expect anything to actually break), I wanted to request approval from the project to switch the templates over to the module. Which brings us here.
(tl;dr) Would it be alright to switch {{Storm colour}} and {{Tc nom list}} to use this module? It's better to keep things organized and standardized in a module like this than to have a giant switch statement independent of sibling templates, especially when the same "category" argument for both color and name. Chlod ( say hi!) 15:47, 21 February 2021 (UTC)
@ Chlod: I have finally found a bit of time to take a look at the deployment of the template so far and would comment that we need to look carefully at how we are presenting the data and make sure its consistent. In particular, I look at the wind column which needs to be rounded off to the nearest 5 and ensured that we are consistent with what NHC etc say the winds are. (NB: The Convert template isn't good for winds, as we convert the knots as both mph & km/h from knots but don't show the knots). I would also comment that the pressure should be presented to 4 sigfigs not 3 and the comma above 1000 hPa should be taken out. (Add the options sig-fig=4 & comma=off). Jason Rees ( talk) 00:53, 25 February 2021 (UTC)
winds-unit
(although a wrapping template can be easily made to change the default units to mph). If an editor chooses to use pre-converted units, say 75 km/h (45 mph)
, the template will bypass the convert and display the text as-is. Would that be enough or does anything else need changing?
Chlod (
say hi!)
01:14, 25 February 2021 (UTC)
winds
argument directly?
Chlod (
say hi!)
01:16, 25 February 2021 (UTC)
no-wrap
is set to yes
on each subtemplate.
Chlod (
say hi!)
02:56, 25 February 2021 (UTC)
A requested move discussion has been initiated for Tropical Storm Amanda–Cristobal to be moved to 2020 Central America and Mexico floods. This page is of interest to this WikiProject and interested members may want to participate in the discussion here. — RMCD bot 20:06, 27 February 2021 (UTC)
Can anyone clarify the difference between a list of storm name article such as List of tropical storms named Soudelor vs a disambiguation page such as Hurricane Felix (disambiguation)? I don't see a difference, and one standard needs to be applied for all such cyclone names with multi-year occurrences. I did such a move for Typhoon Goni (disambiguation) only to find others just like it. So now, I am confused. KyuuA4 ( Talk:キュウ) 22:16, 12 February 2021 (UTC)
I’m just saying, I’d oppose moving all of the pages, when I think all of that effort (which is considerable) would be better merging the dab pages to List of named storms (A), B, etc. Hurricanehink mobile ( talk) 20:28, 13 February 2021 (UTC)
@ Hurricanehink: We still need navigational redirects that take people to the specific spot on the list they are looking for. If we don't have anything, there will be problems with people unable to find the storm they are looking for. We have "List of storms named Dorian" that redirects to the appropriate spot. That makes sure people can find the storm they are looking for. Noah Talk 16:19, 16 February 2021 (UTC)
I'm in favor of set index articles on a per-name basis, for the following reasons:
I'm not in favor of a more aggregated format with an indexing like first letter because:
We should keep storm articles and broad-topic articles like tropical cyclone naming free of too many specifics on particular names.-- Jasper Deng (talk) 19:46, 27 February 2021 (UTC)
A disambiguation page should not be reclassified as a SIA (e.g., on the basis that its entries all happen to be instances of a single type). As an example, Western State Hospital is, correctly, categorized as a disambiguation page even though each of the articles it links to is literally a hospital (rather than some other type of building – or legal entity, titled work, mental state, etc., ad inifitum).Yes, you have a lot of tropical cyclones named Anna (or Anne, or Ann, etc...). But aside from name, they are completely distinct and unrelated from each other. My preference would be to keep all as disambiguation pages.
I strongly feel that we are doing our readers a disservice by developing individual tropical cyclone seasons in the SHEM, before the satellite-era started during 1969-70. This is because the tracking data is a lot less reliable, there are no reliable intensity estimates, the JTWC did not warn on the systems. I would also comment that the naming agencies basins were also not as clear cut as today, with New Caledonia naming systems while the Australian region extended to 80E. As a result, I would like to develop these as decade articles with say only a line or two about each system, while developing articles for significant systems and List of TC's for each country. Jason Rees ( talk) 23:39, 26 February 2021 (UTC)
Hello! I am looking for the name of a typhoon to redlink and was hoping someone here could help me. I was using a source while editing Apra Harbor that states, "A full-scale typhoon passed near Guam between October 3 and 9 [1944]. Continued strong winds built up such heavy waves in Apra Harbor that they destroyed or severely damaged all the pontoon piers, carried away portions of the Cabras Island breakwater, and seriously damaged the sunken barges placed to form the breakwater extension." This appears to be one of the storms not listed at 1944 Pacific typhoon season and my searches for "1944 typhoon" are cluttered with Typhoon Cobra and Hawker Typhoon results. Can anyone point me to a source that can tell me what article name I should be redlinking to? Many thanks, Featous ( talk) 05:54, 10 March 2021 (UTC)
Recently, a new precedent was opened when it was decided that Amanda and Cristobal should be lumped together in a single article, so I'd like to discuss what should be the procedure regarding crossover cyclones from now on. There are many pairs of storms in NHC's AoR that had a similar history of Amanda and Cristobal (like Francelia and Glenda in 1969, Bret and Greg in 1993, Iris and Manuel in 2001, Earl and Frank in 2004, Ernesto and Hector in 2012, Trudy and Hanna in 2014, Earl and Javier in 2016, Franklin and Jova in 2017, Katia and Otis also in 2017, and Nana and Julio in 2020, just to name a few instances), and even some can be found in other basins (like Katrina and Victor-Cindy in 1998, Matmo and Bulbul in 2019, etc), but nowadays they're kept separated from each other. So, for the sake of consistency and WP:COHERENCE, I'd like to discuss with you guys (@ Hurricanehink, Cyclonebiskit, Destroyeraa, LightandDark2000, Skarmory, CyclonicallyDeranged, Jason Rees, Chicdat, and Noah:, who participated on that discussion, and others that might be interested on it like @ Modokai, Meow, Yellow Evan, Krit-tonkla, Master of Time, Juliancolton, AC5230, Jo-Jo Eumerus, and Jasper Deng:) what should be the citeria for merging/incorporating storms as the same system and what should we do with similar past and future instances. ABC paulista ( talk) 15:37, 27 February 2021 (UTC)
BTW, there is a new discussion here to split up the article for Amanda/Cristobal. Please comment there as well. LightandDark2000 🌀 ( talk) 19:54, 27 February 2021 (UTC)
I do not think there is a one-fits-all approach here other than the (overly strict) one of requiring the name to be preserved (inter-RSMC storms) or there to be one continuous track (in IBTRACS if inter-RSMC).
WP:COHERENCE does not at all require a one-fits-all approach when there are valid reasons for keeping separation in some cases.--
Jasper Deng
(talk)
23:31, 27 February 2021 (UTC)
I believe there was logically no reason whatsoever to combine Amanda and Cristobal articles. The NHC calls it as it is. If they were 2 different systems, they were two different systems. Before any of my #wiki-hurricanes [IRC] colleagues call me out on this for analyzing otherwise, I have no control over the NHC, and my analyses are likely worse than Force Thirteen. NHC is priority. Not me. Not F13. Not amyone else but the United States government. ~ AC5230 talk 01:24, 3 March 2021 (UTC)
Hello everyone. I was looking through Wikipedia today and noticed that there are a lot of articles, that are missing corresponding timeline articles. Yes, I did nominate a timeline for deletion once, but now I realize why they are here... Before mass-creating these articles, I would like to know: Do we create timeline articles for all seasons or only for specific basins/years? Thanks! CodingCyclone! 🌀 📘 04:44, 21 March 2021 (UTC)
There are a lot of arguments surrounding timelines being original research, content forks and arent really needed for a lot of seasons. Jason Rees ( talk) 14:58, 21 March 2021 (UTC)
I think the Wikipedia tropical cyclone community should focus more on North Indian Ocean cyclones, as I have seen tens of storms with >100 fatalities that have no articles in that basin. 2003 LN6 ( talk) 23:05, 24 March 2021 (UTC)
@ 2003 LN6: - if you know any storms that really should have articles, please add it to the article requests page. Hurricanehink mobile ( talk) 15:04, 26 March 2021 (UTC)
A requested move discussion has been initiated for Tropical Storm Amanda–Cristobal to be moved to Tropical storms Amanda and Cristobal. This page is of interest to this WikiProject and interested members may want to participate in the discussion here. — RMCD bot 21:51, 30 March 2021 (UTC)
A systematic approach to reviewing older featured articles (FAs) was launched at the end of November 2020 at WP:URFA/2020. The goals are to:
With about two dozen editors regularly contributing to these efforts, it's time for the first quarterly progress report.
The last sweep of Featured articles started in June 2006; by the end of 2008, most of those FAs had been processed at FAR, with one-third of them retaining their featured status. No systematic review of older FAs had been undertaken since then, and the number of FAs reviewed declined considerably after 2010. Tracking FAs that received an official FAR notice began at Wikipedia:Featured article review/notices given and provided the momentum to get FAR moving again. The number of FAs being promoted is declining, so more re-runs of older FAs are needed to maintain diversity at TFA; with a ten-year hiatus in FAR activity, there is a considerable backlog of deficient FAs.
The URFA/2020 page is divided into very old ( last FAC or FAR before 2010) and old ( last FAC or FAR between 2010 and 2015) FAs.
With almost two dozen editors working through the list, good progress has been made on submitting the most deficient to FAR. More participation is needed to evaluate older FAs that may only need minor tune-ups. This would winnow the list so the most deficient can be more easily processed at FAR.
Since URFA/2020 was launched, 65 FAs have been Delisted, and 77 have been deemed Satisfactory or have been Kept at FAR. Underscoring the need to review the very old FAs, those reviewed from the 2010–2015 group have a ratio of 6 delisted to 22 satisfactory (79% satisfactory), while in the 2004–2009 group that ratio is 59 delisted to 55 satisfactory (only 48% satisfactory). Time is allowed at FAR when work is ongoing, so those delisted are generally for article reviews in which no editors engage, and those are typically the very old FAs.
The percentage of older FAs needing review has been reduced from 77% to 74%, with about 35 FAs per month processed off the list. This number is misleading because around 200 more have been reviewed by at least one editor as "Satisfactory", but not yet looked at by more than one editor so they can be moved off the list as "Kept" or FAR not needed. Another almost 150 notices that a FAR is needed have been given, although those articles have not yet been submitted to FAR (anyone can submit one on the list).
While the progress has been steady, at the current rate of 35 reviewed FAs per month, it would take over ten years to review all FAs that were promoted pre-2016. Many more FAs could be moved off the list if experienced FA editors reviewed a few old FAs per week, and enter feedback at URFA/2020, or submit noticed articles to FAR.
You can help assure that Wikipedia's Featured articles still meet FA standards. Many just need checking for compliance, and sometimes need only a minor tune-up; listing improvements needed on article talk often results in someone engaging to address the issues so a FAR can be avoided. Those that are still satisfactorily within the FA standards can be noted at WP:URFA/2020 as "Satisfactory", while those that need a FAR can be added to the FAR notices given template.
Everyone is welcome and encouraged to review articles at URFA/2020 and FAR; the more editors who engage, the sooner the backlog will be processed.
If you have any questions or feedback, please visit Wikipedia talk:Unreviewed featured articles/2020#Discussion 1Q2021. SandyGeorgia ( Talk) 00:04, 1 April 2021 (UTC)
Hi! I need a help from the members of WikiProject Tropical Cyclones to complete the article "List of Indian-Pacific crossover tropical cyclones". This article was made solely by myself and I have already added the basic information but was moved to draftspace due to lack of references. If anyone of WPTC members voluntarily support and help me to complete this article by adding references, it'd be highly helpful to make this article a success. HarrySupertyphoon ( talk) 17:34, 31 March 2021 (UTC)
We have a move review in progress for the recent closure of the discussion at the Amanda/Cristobal talk page (the third one). As the discussion was in progress, I feel that it was grossly inappropriate and a bad move. Please comment there as well. LightandDark2000 🌀 ( talk) 20:33, 6 April 2021 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
I am hereby proposing a moratorium on all weather-related ITN postings and supports no matter how severe they are. It has been demonstrated that several people are willing to oppose all ITNs and get them closed rather quickly. I think we should just boycott ITN altogether through the Atlantic and Pacific hurricane seasons to make a point. Another Hurricane Katrina happened? Too bad, it wasn't significant enough for the ITN regime to post it. The storm didn't kill 1.5e20 people and do 4.5e99 damage and is US-centric to boot. I think we should leave ITN alone and focus on more important aspects. We spend too much time arguing with the swamp when we clearly stand no chance at draining it. Let's leave it to the establishment to piss off enough people that the sensible, non-affiliated editors actually get involved. This proposal is NOT binding for those who don't support it, but I am done putting up with people who oppose just because WP:IDONTLIKEIT. Noah Talk 01:55, 5 April 2021 (UTC)
bull shit" without further explanation.
Comment It may also be worth pointing out that, contrary to the claims of some on this project, the people who regularly oppose weather-related ITN candidates do not have absolute control. Articles have made it to ITN despite their objections. TornadoLGS ( talk) 19:16, 6 April 2021 (UTC)
Closed This seems to have been a very clear
WP:POINTy proposal, as admitted by the proposer themself. Their words: "this was never meant to be taken as a serious proposal
" clearly illustrate a summary from the
POINT guideline page: "editors engaging in 'POINTy' behavior are making edits with which they do not actually agree, for the deliberate purpose of drawing attention and provoking opposition in the hopes of making other editors see their 'point'
". If the proposer wished to gather everyone for a discussion, they should have properly followed the civility guidelines on
dispute resolution and began a proper discussion under the correct name, tagging all the involved editors. Even if a proposal on
WT:ITN failed, there was always
WP:3O and
WP:ANI to bring the discussion to. Theatrics was never the correct option. This only further built up the unnecessary
drama that already led to the retirement of
one (or possibly
two) project members. If any editor wishes to revive this discussion under the proper subject or venue, they are free to do so using the instructions in the closing template. Breaking civility guidelines, however, is not one of them.
Chlod (
say hi!)
17:52, 7 April 2021 (UTC)
Here is a link to another survey on the WPTC newsletter, The Hurricane Herald, by another one of our editors. Please fill out this survey when you have the time. The information will be used to write an Op-Ed in an upcoming issue of The Hurricane Herald. As with the other survey, you will remain completely anonymous. Thank you. (PS, please do not archive this topic for at least 30 days.) LightandDark2000 🌀 ( talk) 16:44, 8 March 2021 (UTC)
This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 40 | ← | Archive 43 | Archive 44 | Archive 45 | Archive 46 | Archive 47 | → | Archive 49 |
Hey, I don't really know where to post something like this so I'm posting it here. While I was working on Tropical cyclones in 2000, I found that Michael's section (which i'm 99% sure is accurate) says that it was 155 km/h and that it lasted from October 15-19, while the Season effects says it was 175 km/h, and the Seasonal summary says that it lasted from October 10-15. Apparently this has been around since around ~2007, I can't remember exactly. The 1999–2000 Australian region cyclone season as well has some inconsistencies with the stats on the storm infoboxes and the season effects differing slightly (I'm somewhat sure that the stats shown on the season effects are 1-min). I'm concerned because there may be more inaccurate information lurking on old articles that haven't been spotted and have been propagating through places like in Tropical cyclones by year where many articles are still incomplete. Akber mamps ! 02:01, 11 February 2021 (UTC)
I think there are some issues with the titles of articles summarizing Atlantic hurricanes prior to the year 1800. The titles of List of Atlantic hurricanes in the 17th century and List of Atlantic hurricanes in the 18th century disagree with their article contents. The 17th century comprises the years 1601-1700, but the article covers the years 1600-1699; the 18th century article has the same issue. Either the title should be changed to reflect the 1600s, or the content changed to exclude 1600 and add 1700. I prefer changing the title; I believe "the 1600s" is a more intuitive grouping of years than "the 17th century." Using "the 1600s" in the title makes it much easier to know at a glance what years the article will cover, and to select the right link from a list or in an autocompleting field. Just consider how much more quickly you could answer the question, "What years were in the 1600s?" versus "What years were in the 17th century?" and what the chances are that someone asked each question gets the answer wrong. To be more in keeping with articles about later time periods, like 1800s Atlantic hurricane seasons and 2020 Atlantic hurricane season, I would like to suggest 1600s Atlantic hurricanes and 1700s Atlantic hurricanes. But if people have a strong preference that the titles continue to start with "List of," I don't object. In addition, the article title " Pre-1600 Atlantic hurricane seasons" strikes me as incorrectly stating that the article is about hurricane seasons, when it is about individual hurricanes. This article is about a time earlier than the 1600s and 1700s, when less was known about meteorology and especially tropical meteorology, yet the article title seems to suggest that this article would be more meteorologically rigorous than those about later hurricanes. I suggest moving that article to Pre-1600 Atlantic hurricanes, again with "List of" being acceptable if widely preferred. A change along these lines for pre-1600 was discussed a decade ago here and seemed to build some consensus, but the conversation fizzled out and it was not implemented. -- DavidK93 ( talk) 09:27, 10 February 2021 (UTC)
A requested move discussion has been initiated for Tropical Storm Abby to be moved to List of storms named Abby. This page is of interest to this WikiProject and interested members may want to participate in the discussion here. — RMCD bot 20:05, 13 February 2021 (UTC)
I do not know if anyone has noticed this, unless this has been left on purpose. But the "Tropical Depression" (MFR) category in the SWio basin has a rather light-blue colour. I am sure that all "TD" category colour in all basin articles have a dark-blue colour. TD 09 for example just shows the difference. It would be nice to have consistency. I really just do not know how to fix this; the coding looks a little bit complicated for me I might mess things up. Thanks. Typhoon2013 (talk) 05:30, 17 February 2021 (UTC)
(1) Very Intense Tropical Cyclone Faraji 2000Z | (2) Intense Tropical Cyclone Faraji 0810Z |
---|---|
Hello everyone. I wanted to bring this discussion here, as there is some trouble with two images of Cyclone Faraji, and which one should be used in the Tropical cyclones in 2021 article, and to a lesser extent, in the 2020–21 South-West Indian Ocean cyclone season article. The original discussion, at talk:Tropical cyclones in 2021#Image of Cyclone Faraji garnered little attention, and so I want to reach more of a consensus for which image would be better for both articles. It should be noted that I support the second image, as based on references and the image itself, the second image appears to show the cyclone closer to its peak, than image one does. However, I will leave the decision to others. Also, I did add the second image to the 2020–21 South-West Indian Ocean cyclone season article, but was reverted, with the person stating that the cyclone is not at the peak. However, I re-reverted and asked why the cyclone looks better in the image I added, rather than the image that they stated was the peak. I was re-reverted again, and was sent to a ref that states that it peaked at 1850z, though I also saw some refs that said that it peaked earlier in the day, However, I will not engage further until we know for sure which one is better. These are the two images in question: 🌀 Cyclone Football 71🏈 | sandbox 18:42, 17 February 2021 (UTC)
I would also like to add that on the Tropical cyclones in 2021 article, putting the Eloise image which is also that strange milky filter on top of yet another image with that same filter just looks bad aesthetically. Either Eloise should be its true color image (which I doubt we will use since it's far enough from peak) or the Faraji image, which is if barely only a tiny bit past the peak strength and looks like a healthier storm. This situation is practically identical to the one to do with Hurricane Delta, and sometimes the image of peak strength just isn't good enough."We typically include whatever image has the better satellite presentation, so not necessarily at peak intensity", Hurricanehink concluded. Hurricaneboy23 (page) * (talk) 15:36, 21 February 2021 (UTC)
Since Tropical Storm Linfa has been brought back from the dead by @ MarioJump83: following its retirement. I decided it was time I could give the article a second chance since the chaotic series of floods has ended (since 2020 is over, anyway). Throughout today I've been updating impacts and preparations and its become increasingly obvious to me there is plenty of Vietnamese media coverage on the storm that wasn't used and is yet to be used. The section of 2020 Central Vietnam floods only seems to capture a portion of the coverage from Linfa, even excluding the meteorological history and the records broken from the individual tropical cyclone, which is largely why the merge was flawed. And since the merge moratorium, I think its time to give Linfa a second chance instead of just covering a very small portion of the storm in a much larger article.
I am hoping other editors will help, since a storm which killed hundreds of people by itself and which in itself laid the groundwork for much of the later floods in Central Vietnam in 2020 needs a storm article.
tl;dr What I'm basically asking is if anyone will be willing to help me expand on this article and hopefully make it quality enough that it doesn't have to be merged again... Hurricaneboy23 (page) * (talk) 21:20, 21 February 2021 (UTC)
I've done my best to combine the best of both {{ Storm colour}} and {{ Tc nom list}} to create a exhaustive list of every single storm category code we use, mapped to their appropriate colors and category names. The result is this module, which I've checked with the aforementioned templates for compatibility (such tests you can find on its documentation page).
Since the state of {{Storm colour}} and {{Tc nom list}} right now is extremely messy (what can be used in {{Storm colour}} isn't the same as those in {{Tc nom list}}, vice versa), I wanted to change both templates to use this module, as this provides an easier way of adding in categories, and also allows both templates to use the same list of category codes. Since this is a (possibly) breaking change (although I don't expect anything to actually break), I wanted to request approval from the project to switch the templates over to the module. Which brings us here.
(tl;dr) Would it be alright to switch {{Storm colour}} and {{Tc nom list}} to use this module? It's better to keep things organized and standardized in a module like this than to have a giant switch statement independent of sibling templates, especially when the same "category" argument for both color and name. Chlod ( say hi!) 15:47, 21 February 2021 (UTC)
@ Chlod: I have finally found a bit of time to take a look at the deployment of the template so far and would comment that we need to look carefully at how we are presenting the data and make sure its consistent. In particular, I look at the wind column which needs to be rounded off to the nearest 5 and ensured that we are consistent with what NHC etc say the winds are. (NB: The Convert template isn't good for winds, as we convert the knots as both mph & km/h from knots but don't show the knots). I would also comment that the pressure should be presented to 4 sigfigs not 3 and the comma above 1000 hPa should be taken out. (Add the options sig-fig=4 & comma=off). Jason Rees ( talk) 00:53, 25 February 2021 (UTC)
winds-unit
(although a wrapping template can be easily made to change the default units to mph). If an editor chooses to use pre-converted units, say 75 km/h (45 mph)
, the template will bypass the convert and display the text as-is. Would that be enough or does anything else need changing?
Chlod (
say hi!)
01:14, 25 February 2021 (UTC)
winds
argument directly?
Chlod (
say hi!)
01:16, 25 February 2021 (UTC)
no-wrap
is set to yes
on each subtemplate.
Chlod (
say hi!)
02:56, 25 February 2021 (UTC)
A requested move discussion has been initiated for Tropical Storm Amanda–Cristobal to be moved to 2020 Central America and Mexico floods. This page is of interest to this WikiProject and interested members may want to participate in the discussion here. — RMCD bot 20:06, 27 February 2021 (UTC)
Can anyone clarify the difference between a list of storm name article such as List of tropical storms named Soudelor vs a disambiguation page such as Hurricane Felix (disambiguation)? I don't see a difference, and one standard needs to be applied for all such cyclone names with multi-year occurrences. I did such a move for Typhoon Goni (disambiguation) only to find others just like it. So now, I am confused. KyuuA4 ( Talk:キュウ) 22:16, 12 February 2021 (UTC)
I’m just saying, I’d oppose moving all of the pages, when I think all of that effort (which is considerable) would be better merging the dab pages to List of named storms (A), B, etc. Hurricanehink mobile ( talk) 20:28, 13 February 2021 (UTC)
@ Hurricanehink: We still need navigational redirects that take people to the specific spot on the list they are looking for. If we don't have anything, there will be problems with people unable to find the storm they are looking for. We have "List of storms named Dorian" that redirects to the appropriate spot. That makes sure people can find the storm they are looking for. Noah Talk 16:19, 16 February 2021 (UTC)
I'm in favor of set index articles on a per-name basis, for the following reasons:
I'm not in favor of a more aggregated format with an indexing like first letter because:
We should keep storm articles and broad-topic articles like tropical cyclone naming free of too many specifics on particular names.-- Jasper Deng (talk) 19:46, 27 February 2021 (UTC)
A disambiguation page should not be reclassified as a SIA (e.g., on the basis that its entries all happen to be instances of a single type). As an example, Western State Hospital is, correctly, categorized as a disambiguation page even though each of the articles it links to is literally a hospital (rather than some other type of building – or legal entity, titled work, mental state, etc., ad inifitum).Yes, you have a lot of tropical cyclones named Anna (or Anne, or Ann, etc...). But aside from name, they are completely distinct and unrelated from each other. My preference would be to keep all as disambiguation pages.
I strongly feel that we are doing our readers a disservice by developing individual tropical cyclone seasons in the SHEM, before the satellite-era started during 1969-70. This is because the tracking data is a lot less reliable, there are no reliable intensity estimates, the JTWC did not warn on the systems. I would also comment that the naming agencies basins were also not as clear cut as today, with New Caledonia naming systems while the Australian region extended to 80E. As a result, I would like to develop these as decade articles with say only a line or two about each system, while developing articles for significant systems and List of TC's for each country. Jason Rees ( talk) 23:39, 26 February 2021 (UTC)
Hello! I am looking for the name of a typhoon to redlink and was hoping someone here could help me. I was using a source while editing Apra Harbor that states, "A full-scale typhoon passed near Guam between October 3 and 9 [1944]. Continued strong winds built up such heavy waves in Apra Harbor that they destroyed or severely damaged all the pontoon piers, carried away portions of the Cabras Island breakwater, and seriously damaged the sunken barges placed to form the breakwater extension." This appears to be one of the storms not listed at 1944 Pacific typhoon season and my searches for "1944 typhoon" are cluttered with Typhoon Cobra and Hawker Typhoon results. Can anyone point me to a source that can tell me what article name I should be redlinking to? Many thanks, Featous ( talk) 05:54, 10 March 2021 (UTC)
Recently, a new precedent was opened when it was decided that Amanda and Cristobal should be lumped together in a single article, so I'd like to discuss what should be the procedure regarding crossover cyclones from now on. There are many pairs of storms in NHC's AoR that had a similar history of Amanda and Cristobal (like Francelia and Glenda in 1969, Bret and Greg in 1993, Iris and Manuel in 2001, Earl and Frank in 2004, Ernesto and Hector in 2012, Trudy and Hanna in 2014, Earl and Javier in 2016, Franklin and Jova in 2017, Katia and Otis also in 2017, and Nana and Julio in 2020, just to name a few instances), and even some can be found in other basins (like Katrina and Victor-Cindy in 1998, Matmo and Bulbul in 2019, etc), but nowadays they're kept separated from each other. So, for the sake of consistency and WP:COHERENCE, I'd like to discuss with you guys (@ Hurricanehink, Cyclonebiskit, Destroyeraa, LightandDark2000, Skarmory, CyclonicallyDeranged, Jason Rees, Chicdat, and Noah:, who participated on that discussion, and others that might be interested on it like @ Modokai, Meow, Yellow Evan, Krit-tonkla, Master of Time, Juliancolton, AC5230, Jo-Jo Eumerus, and Jasper Deng:) what should be the citeria for merging/incorporating storms as the same system and what should we do with similar past and future instances. ABC paulista ( talk) 15:37, 27 February 2021 (UTC)
BTW, there is a new discussion here to split up the article for Amanda/Cristobal. Please comment there as well. LightandDark2000 🌀 ( talk) 19:54, 27 February 2021 (UTC)
I do not think there is a one-fits-all approach here other than the (overly strict) one of requiring the name to be preserved (inter-RSMC storms) or there to be one continuous track (in IBTRACS if inter-RSMC).
WP:COHERENCE does not at all require a one-fits-all approach when there are valid reasons for keeping separation in some cases.--
Jasper Deng
(talk)
23:31, 27 February 2021 (UTC)
I believe there was logically no reason whatsoever to combine Amanda and Cristobal articles. The NHC calls it as it is. If they were 2 different systems, they were two different systems. Before any of my #wiki-hurricanes [IRC] colleagues call me out on this for analyzing otherwise, I have no control over the NHC, and my analyses are likely worse than Force Thirteen. NHC is priority. Not me. Not F13. Not amyone else but the United States government. ~ AC5230 talk 01:24, 3 March 2021 (UTC)
Hello everyone. I was looking through Wikipedia today and noticed that there are a lot of articles, that are missing corresponding timeline articles. Yes, I did nominate a timeline for deletion once, but now I realize why they are here... Before mass-creating these articles, I would like to know: Do we create timeline articles for all seasons or only for specific basins/years? Thanks! CodingCyclone! 🌀 📘 04:44, 21 March 2021 (UTC)
There are a lot of arguments surrounding timelines being original research, content forks and arent really needed for a lot of seasons. Jason Rees ( talk) 14:58, 21 March 2021 (UTC)
I think the Wikipedia tropical cyclone community should focus more on North Indian Ocean cyclones, as I have seen tens of storms with >100 fatalities that have no articles in that basin. 2003 LN6 ( talk) 23:05, 24 March 2021 (UTC)
@ 2003 LN6: - if you know any storms that really should have articles, please add it to the article requests page. Hurricanehink mobile ( talk) 15:04, 26 March 2021 (UTC)
A requested move discussion has been initiated for Tropical Storm Amanda–Cristobal to be moved to Tropical storms Amanda and Cristobal. This page is of interest to this WikiProject and interested members may want to participate in the discussion here. — RMCD bot 21:51, 30 March 2021 (UTC)
A systematic approach to reviewing older featured articles (FAs) was launched at the end of November 2020 at WP:URFA/2020. The goals are to:
With about two dozen editors regularly contributing to these efforts, it's time for the first quarterly progress report.
The last sweep of Featured articles started in June 2006; by the end of 2008, most of those FAs had been processed at FAR, with one-third of them retaining their featured status. No systematic review of older FAs had been undertaken since then, and the number of FAs reviewed declined considerably after 2010. Tracking FAs that received an official FAR notice began at Wikipedia:Featured article review/notices given and provided the momentum to get FAR moving again. The number of FAs being promoted is declining, so more re-runs of older FAs are needed to maintain diversity at TFA; with a ten-year hiatus in FAR activity, there is a considerable backlog of deficient FAs.
The URFA/2020 page is divided into very old ( last FAC or FAR before 2010) and old ( last FAC or FAR between 2010 and 2015) FAs.
With almost two dozen editors working through the list, good progress has been made on submitting the most deficient to FAR. More participation is needed to evaluate older FAs that may only need minor tune-ups. This would winnow the list so the most deficient can be more easily processed at FAR.
Since URFA/2020 was launched, 65 FAs have been Delisted, and 77 have been deemed Satisfactory or have been Kept at FAR. Underscoring the need to review the very old FAs, those reviewed from the 2010–2015 group have a ratio of 6 delisted to 22 satisfactory (79% satisfactory), while in the 2004–2009 group that ratio is 59 delisted to 55 satisfactory (only 48% satisfactory). Time is allowed at FAR when work is ongoing, so those delisted are generally for article reviews in which no editors engage, and those are typically the very old FAs.
The percentage of older FAs needing review has been reduced from 77% to 74%, with about 35 FAs per month processed off the list. This number is misleading because around 200 more have been reviewed by at least one editor as "Satisfactory", but not yet looked at by more than one editor so they can be moved off the list as "Kept" or FAR not needed. Another almost 150 notices that a FAR is needed have been given, although those articles have not yet been submitted to FAR (anyone can submit one on the list).
While the progress has been steady, at the current rate of 35 reviewed FAs per month, it would take over ten years to review all FAs that were promoted pre-2016. Many more FAs could be moved off the list if experienced FA editors reviewed a few old FAs per week, and enter feedback at URFA/2020, or submit noticed articles to FAR.
You can help assure that Wikipedia's Featured articles still meet FA standards. Many just need checking for compliance, and sometimes need only a minor tune-up; listing improvements needed on article talk often results in someone engaging to address the issues so a FAR can be avoided. Those that are still satisfactorily within the FA standards can be noted at WP:URFA/2020 as "Satisfactory", while those that need a FAR can be added to the FAR notices given template.
Everyone is welcome and encouraged to review articles at URFA/2020 and FAR; the more editors who engage, the sooner the backlog will be processed.
If you have any questions or feedback, please visit Wikipedia talk:Unreviewed featured articles/2020#Discussion 1Q2021. SandyGeorgia ( Talk) 00:04, 1 April 2021 (UTC)
Hi! I need a help from the members of WikiProject Tropical Cyclones to complete the article "List of Indian-Pacific crossover tropical cyclones". This article was made solely by myself and I have already added the basic information but was moved to draftspace due to lack of references. If anyone of WPTC members voluntarily support and help me to complete this article by adding references, it'd be highly helpful to make this article a success. HarrySupertyphoon ( talk) 17:34, 31 March 2021 (UTC)
We have a move review in progress for the recent closure of the discussion at the Amanda/Cristobal talk page (the third one). As the discussion was in progress, I feel that it was grossly inappropriate and a bad move. Please comment there as well. LightandDark2000 🌀 ( talk) 20:33, 6 April 2021 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
I am hereby proposing a moratorium on all weather-related ITN postings and supports no matter how severe they are. It has been demonstrated that several people are willing to oppose all ITNs and get them closed rather quickly. I think we should just boycott ITN altogether through the Atlantic and Pacific hurricane seasons to make a point. Another Hurricane Katrina happened? Too bad, it wasn't significant enough for the ITN regime to post it. The storm didn't kill 1.5e20 people and do 4.5e99 damage and is US-centric to boot. I think we should leave ITN alone and focus on more important aspects. We spend too much time arguing with the swamp when we clearly stand no chance at draining it. Let's leave it to the establishment to piss off enough people that the sensible, non-affiliated editors actually get involved. This proposal is NOT binding for those who don't support it, but I am done putting up with people who oppose just because WP:IDONTLIKEIT. Noah Talk 01:55, 5 April 2021 (UTC)
bull shit" without further explanation.
Comment It may also be worth pointing out that, contrary to the claims of some on this project, the people who regularly oppose weather-related ITN candidates do not have absolute control. Articles have made it to ITN despite their objections. TornadoLGS ( talk) 19:16, 6 April 2021 (UTC)
Closed This seems to have been a very clear
WP:POINTy proposal, as admitted by the proposer themself. Their words: "this was never meant to be taken as a serious proposal
" clearly illustrate a summary from the
POINT guideline page: "editors engaging in 'POINTy' behavior are making edits with which they do not actually agree, for the deliberate purpose of drawing attention and provoking opposition in the hopes of making other editors see their 'point'
". If the proposer wished to gather everyone for a discussion, they should have properly followed the civility guidelines on
dispute resolution and began a proper discussion under the correct name, tagging all the involved editors. Even if a proposal on
WT:ITN failed, there was always
WP:3O and
WP:ANI to bring the discussion to. Theatrics was never the correct option. This only further built up the unnecessary
drama that already led to the retirement of
one (or possibly
two) project members. If any editor wishes to revive this discussion under the proper subject or venue, they are free to do so using the instructions in the closing template. Breaking civility guidelines, however, is not one of them.
Chlod (
say hi!)
17:52, 7 April 2021 (UTC)
Here is a link to another survey on the WPTC newsletter, The Hurricane Herald, by another one of our editors. Please fill out this survey when you have the time. The information will be used to write an Op-Ed in an upcoming issue of The Hurricane Herald. As with the other survey, you will remain completely anonymous. Thank you. (PS, please do not archive this topic for at least 30 days.) LightandDark2000 🌀 ( talk) 16:44, 8 March 2021 (UTC)