This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 | Archive 3 | Archive 4 | Archive 5 | Archive 6 | → | Archive 10 |
As part of the Paranormal project, i have been working on this article to try and bring some balance to it. it was lacking in documentation of serious critical views and could use some more work towards that end. I mention it here as part of this project because members of this project may be able to help me bring in some well-structured documentation of serious academic issues with Castaneda's works - works he and his publisher have always mainatined are works of nonfiction. A recent article in Salon spurred me towards action. That article covered some of the more disturbing aspects of Castaneda's movement and personal life. Ex-members of his inner group have published books about their experiences wiith the self-described sorcerer and those may be good primary sources. I tagged the article as under the jurisdiction of the paranormal project because Castaneda did promote the view that he was spritiual leader with revealed wisdom of sorcery. LiPollis 07:53, 21 April 2007 (UTC)
There has been a request for arbitration initiated by Minderbinder. You can find it here. [ [1]]. If you've been involved in this and would like to become an involved party then just add your name to the list and add a statement concerning your opinions on this matter. Wikidudeman (talk) 08:02, 21 April 2007 (UTC)
I am interested in adding perspective to this article. At present, the article is rather vague in its deiniftion of what Life Coaching is or isn't. The section on criticism is equally vague. Since this is one of the topics covered in last year's season of Penn & Teller's Bullshit!, it might be good to try and improve the article. Any help others can give me would be gretly appreciated. LiPollis 03:06, 24 April 2007 (UTC)
This long article ( Unification theory - not to be confused with Grand unification theory) has just been resurrected, after being deleted once, and I have proposed it for deletion again. The article is not per se about Grand Unification Theory, a legitimate topic of enquiry in physics. Rather, it is a long, rambling treatise which veers off into pseudoscience. Please have a look and comment on its Articles for Deletion page if you wish to support (or oppose) my deletion proposal.— greenrd 19:21, 5 May 2007 (UTC)
The Project Rational Skepticism deals with the same principles as pseudo-science, as well as WP:NPOV which is a very broad area. Therefore I wonder if this project shouldn't be defined as a "daughter" project of Rational Skepticism in order to help "break out" pseudo-science from the very broad scope of that project? (unsigned, by Chrisbak)
Would anyone object to there being a list of relevant AfDs for the project? If not, I will probably start such a list, and would appreciate it if other editors would add relevant AfDs that they start or notice. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Philosophus ( talk • contribs).
I'm not sure what the general method of notification for this project is, but for WikiProject Pseudoscience we used to use the project talk page to notify people of current or upcoming controversies, so I am following that method. RayTomes is back, working on a new article on the Foundation for the Study of Cycles (though it appears to just be mostly the same old article) on a subpage of his user page, User:RayTomes/Foundation for the Study of Cycles, for eventual inclusion into Wikipedia, and is asking for help editing. Some of you may remember Ray, as he was one of Hillman's adversaries, and the Foundation for the Study of Cycles article was redirected to Edward R. Dewey after an AfD resulted in a lack of consensus between deletion and redirection. -- Philosophus T 10:49, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
In reading 1976 Tehran UFO incident, I remember seeing a TV program that showed the tape of the F-4 radar. It showed the object "flying" under the surface of the Earth at one point, hence the radar was having problems. Does anyone know of a source for this? (It isn't in Randi's book.) Bubba73 (talk), 15:10, 18 May 2007 (UTC)
I have been looking over the cultural phenomenon of "Indigo Kids" lately since it's getting a lot of press now that Comedianne Jenny McCarthy has been discussing her belief in this concept. (She has aan autistic child who she believes is an Indigo child). In looking over the two articles on the subject here on wikipedia, I detected a noticeable absence of criticisms of the concept/phenomenon despite there being a large body of criticism. Perhpas some members of this project might wish to look the articles over and determine if some balance can be added. Please be aware that these beliefs border on areas of spirituality and religion and as a result, generate very strong feelings in some readers and editors. Also, since these children are usually also suffering from autism or some other disorder, please be cautious about any characterizations of the children themselves.
The articles are:
Please take a look-see when you have time. There is quite the cottage industry now in supporting the homeschooling of "Indigo" kids and in alternative therapies for their many mental health and physical health issues. There is even a new subdidvision of "Indigo" Kids called "Crystal Kids" butthere is not an article on them yet. Just google the terms and you'll see how popular these subjects have become. LiPollis 16:25, 18 May 2007 (UTC)
Conspiracy Con has been nominated for deletion--even after extensive sourcing. Please give your comments/vote. Thanks. - Eερ² ( t| c) 21:47, 18 May 2007 (UTC)
Scientific skepticism has had a lot of material tagged as uncited and removed, replaced, and removed again. It may need attention to cite things. (A strange thing is that PerfectBlue97 is tagging and removing, yet PerfectBlue removes cited material, removes citations, and changes sourced statements to read differently from what the source said, in at least one other article.) Bubba73 (talk), 00:53, 23 May 2007 (UTC)
This article is a mess again. Heim theory is a notable borderline-pseudoscientific theory, but the article is currently presenting it as real science, and giving excuses for the lack of reputable sources. We need to improve this to comply with WP:ARB/PS, WP:V, and WP:NOR. -- Philosophus T 18:32, 27 May 2007 (UTC)
There is a request for comment on the article BDORT, which is about a patented "alternative medecine technique". Thought this request might interest someone here. It is not about the validity of the technique (which few people in the argument are seeking to defend), but whether a New Zealand medical tribunal is discussing the patented technique or something else with the same name. See:
Thanks. 13:20, 6 June 2007 (UTC)
You all might be interested in the deletion debate over these two articles. They are supposedly "promotional" and non-neutral, though I've been working very hard to present them in a neutral way, add notable criticism from reliable sources, etc.
I really think it's important that we have articles about these, as long as they are maintained in a neutral state. A lot of people believe the " water-fuelled car" crap and we need to debunk it.
Considering that promoters of this "technology" have tried to get the article deleted in the past, I think it's going in the right direction. :-) — Omegatron 13:53, 8 June 2007 (UTC)
Isaac Asimov has been nominated for a featured article review. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. Please leave your comments and help us to return the article to featured quality. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, articles are moved onto the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Remove" the article from featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. Reviewers' concerns are here.
Someone has evidently been tagging away with {{ Rational Skepticism}} -- Good job! Smee 09:39, 13 June 2007 (UTC).
A user prematurely wants to jump to arbitration after just a few edit reversions in the Jamie Hyneman article. From a quote in which Hyneman said he is pretty much against the whole God thing without explaining the specifics of what he meant, one user is insisting on calling either an atheist or (worse because it involves vague language we don't use in an encyclopedia) likely an atheist. There is a clear difference between atheism and agnosticism, and the Hyneman quote does not indicate that he is either. Actually, a person could be against God and still believe God exists. That seems unlikely in this class, but that's my point: It involves telling the readers how to interpret his sentence. Could someone please weigh on in the issue at Talk:Jamie_Hyneman and maybe help those people resolve this? Doczilla 17:08, 8 July 2007 (UTC)
Geologic column looks fairly reasonable (if unreferenced), but most references to it on the web are from creationist sites (at least, the ones I clicked on were). Is this a creationist neologism? Totnesmartin 15:34, 9 July 2007 (UTC)
After being exposed to mouth breathers who actually believe in quacks like Sylvia Browne, I'm wondering how you guys deal with the thousands of editors who should have been blocked for spreading propaganda. I mean why is it against the rules to call the scum that is Ms. Browne a Quack? She is for Christ sake! Apparently, I can't tell them to get lost casually (I made a banner telling them to). How do you deal with these magic-minded fools? Science Solider 18:08, 11 July 2007 (UTC)
I'm alarmed by no. 4 of your goals. Wikipedia is not a campaigning organization. The project should not be dedicated to rooting out the truth about pseudoscience. Many would consider that to be a worthy aim, but if you consult the policies, you will see that it is not consistent with Wikipedia's aims, which are more limited. Can you assure everyone that this is not a POV project? Itsmejudith 21:49, 12 July 2007 (UTC)
Wikipedia:Fringe theories/Noticeboard needs more eyes. Moreschi Talk 18:40, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
I thought some of the editors here might be interested in this noticeboard, which seems to deal primarily with fringe theories, which seems to be at least part of the scope of this project. John Carter 18:53, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
I saw that there was a need for a logo upon joining this project, and I have provided two. #1 is a more simplistic image, #2 is a bit more detailed but also my preffered choice, as it is slightly humorous while encapsulating the goal of the project
See what ya'll think. They are my own work and I still have the base files so I can easily make any changes you would like.-- Scorpion451 18:38, 14 July 2007 (UTC)
Both logo's have their problems. Firstly, both suggest that skepticism is a branch of paranormal investigation when it is in fact a multi-disciplinary branch of investigative science that often works with things that are completely unrelated to the paranormal. For example, the investigation of perpetual motion or alternative scientific hypothesis and history. Secondly, both suggest that skepticism is aimed at debunking. Debunking is the purposeful pursuit of evidence against something. skepticism is the investigation of all evidence and the reaching of conclusions based on said findings. A person who sets out specifically to find evidence against something isn't a skeptic, they are a non-believer, which is very different because they have a preconceived bias that said something is false. The current log is best. - perfectblue 12:03, 7 October 2007 (UTC)
The logo is useful for our project templates. Scorpion, were you aware of the Earth and ? image? I think it's the best of the three. Λυδαcιτγ 23:43, 14 July 2007 (UTC)
On the project page there is a request for a logo for this project in the things to do list, so I assume that either there is a problem with this image such as a copyright issue, or this is a old request that needs to be removed. Personally I still like #2 better but i'm biased.-- Scorpion451 01:24, 15 July 2007 (UTC)
I lost my account password on my other computer and so began editing as User:Velikovsky to look at some of the catastrophism pseudoscience. I was surprised that Ian Tresman was editing he is extremely well-connected in the Society for Interdisciplinary Studies and makes much of his living by doing web-design for that group. I don't think he should be editing those pages and posted a WP:COI warning on his page which he did not take kindly too. He also reverted a change I made to Anthony Peratt's page about his new-found amicas with Velikovsky supporters. This user reverted it and placed a warning at User talk:Velikovsky. I'm in over my head. Can anyone help me? -- Mainstream astronomy 20:04, 14 July 2007 (UTC)
Two editors seem to be in an edit war at Lunar effect. Bubba73 (talk), 21:26, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
Pigasus Award is up for deletion. Bubba73 (talk), 02:01, 23 July 2007 (UTC)
I've recently started an article with this topic to move adverts from the Dyslexia article to a more appropriate place. The problem persists: the link to Alternative therapy (disability) has been repeatedly deleted from the Dyslexia article, and there is an edit war between me and user:armarshall who works for www.dyslexia.com, a website promoting a batty therapy called Davis Dyslexia Correction. I had to include a table explaining the reason for certain therapies being controversial (there are loads more to come) so that they wouldn't be deleted from the article. It seems that nothing really helps. The Dyslexia article has been improving, but it's still a mess, and I'm having problems with the alternative page. Could you help me with this? You could leave your comments in the talk page. I've expressed my willingness to make improvements to reach a consensus, but I guess my opponent simply wants to destroy the article. Piechjo 16:02, 26 July 2007 (UTC)
Could someone with a proper academic background please take a look at this article. During the last few days it has been the subject of a whitewash that introduced a bunch of details from Red Rain studies. ˉˉ anetode ╦╩ 01:12, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
That's a tough one to judge on, because it is one of those that there is enough real science in it (as in organic chemicals from comets jump starting life, ect.) to have real research into it, but also "fringe" enough to attract the, shall we say, "wishful thinkers". We may need to get wikiproject science on to this one.-- Scorpion451 rant 23:13, 29 July 2007 (UTC)
The result of this arbitration is now up. Totnesmartin 12:06, 28 July 2007 (UTC)
Look again, it seems (or at least the intro does, which is the most important bit) to be fairly neutral now - psychic abilities are merely said to exist, rather than definitely existing (or definitely not). Totnesmartin 15:23, 28 July 2007 (UTC)
Because it is used to frame other articles, the Psychic article has to be very carefully done (not that it wouldn't anyway). I look at it this way: the word "psychic," when seen as a cultural artifact, encompasses the entire controversy surrounding whether the powers are real or not. A proper understanding of the word "psychic" includes knowledge of the controversy. Thus, if a reader is linked to the Psychic article, and the Psychic article contains information about the controversy, it is OK just to say someone is a psychic. If you want to distinguish a mentalist, you just say that the person does not claim to actually have psychic powers, but only simulates them. Otherwise you just say "psychic," and thus refer the reader to the controversy. This system won't work unless articles which we use to "frame" the subject do contain a section on the controversy (in cases where the subject is taken seriously- I doubt you'd need a whole section in an article on unicorns).
So here's the formulation: "A psychic is someone with psychic powers. Critics say psychic powers may/do not exist." That's what the word "psychic" tells the reader. Martinphi ( Talk Ψ Contribs) 01:50, 29 July 2007 (UTC)
""Psychic" or "clairvoyant" and similar terms are cultural artifacts, not people or things which necessarily exist. A psychic may not have psychic abilities, nor does use of the term imply that such abilities exist." [2]
Antelan, I'm merely repeating what the ArbCom decided. We don't include full definitions of each word in an article. Rather, we link it where it is important. Now, if there were no skepticism in the Psychic article, then you would have a really good point. Martinphi ( Talk Ψ Contribs) 22:10, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
The Casein article is in need of some premptive editing- it is headed towards an edit war, as good information is being buried under contrevsial claims. For example, a paragraph about a study linking casein to blockage of flavenoids in the bloodstream (a valid study, interesting) ends with the candid quote from a magazine, "[i]t probably also blocks tea's effect on other things, such as cancer."(word for word quote) Casein also has been tenatively linked to an aggravation of symptoms of autism (not a cause, an aggrivation), but the studies on this are still in early stages and the jury is still out. The theory is that the digestive problems frequently accompanying autism cause the body to process casein incorrectly.
To add to the pot, casein is a naturally occuring edible polymer found in milk. It is used in everything from plasics to dietary suppliments, even paint, protective coatings, fabric, and oddly is a primary ingredient in cotton candy (providing structure). Due to the amount of space devoted to the "dangers of evil satan-invention casein" there is little information about a chemical that like duct tape seems to be everywhere and holds our planet together. (by the way, I think it's in duct tape too. XD)-- Scorpion451 rant 03:41, 1 August 2007 (UTC)
This article has been nominated as a candidate for the collaboration above. If you would be interested in helping to improve this article in this collaboration, please indicate as much there. Thank you. John Carter 22:39, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
Any chance of a blitz on this? 1) The style has gone completely pear-shaped; it's been allowed to develop into a turgid academic literature survey of every damn thing published on the subject, rather than an accessible Wikipedia article for the general reader. It needs heavy trimming and editing for style. 2) There are big article ownership issues, with it dominated by one openly biased editor who is devoted largely to collecting pro-orthomolecular references. 81.132.98.197 02:13, 3 August 2007 (UTC)
Having looked over the article, I was shocked to find the rarest of all articles on a fringe theory: a well cited, mostly balanced and NPOV (not perfect, but it presented both sides fairly evenly), well written (again, mostly), article that avoids ranting about pharmacuetical companies for the most part. The problem seems to come in that the above mentioned author is terrified that the article will be deleted as OR or having unreliable sources, so has included every single source that appears on google or elsewhere. I think that this is one case where the problem might be convincing the person that it is okay not to cite so many viable sources.-- Scorpion451 rant 04:08, 3 August 2007 (UTC)
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I thought this wikiproject might be interested in this article Growing Earth Theory and since I didn't see it categorized by this group, I decided to bring it to your attention. Remember 03:02, 6 August 2007 (UTC)
It's real and passed AFD, but needs work on OR, NPOV and reliability of sourcing. 86.155.205.243 08:33, 21 August 2007 (UTC)
I'd like to recruit a bit of a hand in poking the Reiki article into neutrality. There's currently a bit of a true believer, who has a contribution history over the past 3 months of nearly nothing the Reiki article. He seems to listen to argument, but every change in the direction of NPOV comes with a certain degree of struggle... POV and weasel words could be reduced, along with general wordiness and an amazing degree of over-citation of questionable literature... -- Xinit 12:30, 28 August 2007 (UTC)
Hi. I perhaps mistakenly put my notice of concern about Facilitated communication up at Wikipedia:Fringe_theories/Noticeboard. The editor who responded wasn't aware that FC is completely bogus. Maybe someone here with some knowledge and energy can act? -- Wfaxon 16:03, 30 August 2007 (UTC)
This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 | Archive 3 | Archive 4 | Archive 5 | Archive 6 | → | Archive 10 |
As part of the Paranormal project, i have been working on this article to try and bring some balance to it. it was lacking in documentation of serious critical views and could use some more work towards that end. I mention it here as part of this project because members of this project may be able to help me bring in some well-structured documentation of serious academic issues with Castaneda's works - works he and his publisher have always mainatined are works of nonfiction. A recent article in Salon spurred me towards action. That article covered some of the more disturbing aspects of Castaneda's movement and personal life. Ex-members of his inner group have published books about their experiences wiith the self-described sorcerer and those may be good primary sources. I tagged the article as under the jurisdiction of the paranormal project because Castaneda did promote the view that he was spritiual leader with revealed wisdom of sorcery. LiPollis 07:53, 21 April 2007 (UTC)
There has been a request for arbitration initiated by Minderbinder. You can find it here. [ [1]]. If you've been involved in this and would like to become an involved party then just add your name to the list and add a statement concerning your opinions on this matter. Wikidudeman (talk) 08:02, 21 April 2007 (UTC)
I am interested in adding perspective to this article. At present, the article is rather vague in its deiniftion of what Life Coaching is or isn't. The section on criticism is equally vague. Since this is one of the topics covered in last year's season of Penn & Teller's Bullshit!, it might be good to try and improve the article. Any help others can give me would be gretly appreciated. LiPollis 03:06, 24 April 2007 (UTC)
This long article ( Unification theory - not to be confused with Grand unification theory) has just been resurrected, after being deleted once, and I have proposed it for deletion again. The article is not per se about Grand Unification Theory, a legitimate topic of enquiry in physics. Rather, it is a long, rambling treatise which veers off into pseudoscience. Please have a look and comment on its Articles for Deletion page if you wish to support (or oppose) my deletion proposal.— greenrd 19:21, 5 May 2007 (UTC)
The Project Rational Skepticism deals with the same principles as pseudo-science, as well as WP:NPOV which is a very broad area. Therefore I wonder if this project shouldn't be defined as a "daughter" project of Rational Skepticism in order to help "break out" pseudo-science from the very broad scope of that project? (unsigned, by Chrisbak)
Would anyone object to there being a list of relevant AfDs for the project? If not, I will probably start such a list, and would appreciate it if other editors would add relevant AfDs that they start or notice. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Philosophus ( talk • contribs).
I'm not sure what the general method of notification for this project is, but for WikiProject Pseudoscience we used to use the project talk page to notify people of current or upcoming controversies, so I am following that method. RayTomes is back, working on a new article on the Foundation for the Study of Cycles (though it appears to just be mostly the same old article) on a subpage of his user page, User:RayTomes/Foundation for the Study of Cycles, for eventual inclusion into Wikipedia, and is asking for help editing. Some of you may remember Ray, as he was one of Hillman's adversaries, and the Foundation for the Study of Cycles article was redirected to Edward R. Dewey after an AfD resulted in a lack of consensus between deletion and redirection. -- Philosophus T 10:49, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
In reading 1976 Tehran UFO incident, I remember seeing a TV program that showed the tape of the F-4 radar. It showed the object "flying" under the surface of the Earth at one point, hence the radar was having problems. Does anyone know of a source for this? (It isn't in Randi's book.) Bubba73 (talk), 15:10, 18 May 2007 (UTC)
I have been looking over the cultural phenomenon of "Indigo Kids" lately since it's getting a lot of press now that Comedianne Jenny McCarthy has been discussing her belief in this concept. (She has aan autistic child who she believes is an Indigo child). In looking over the two articles on the subject here on wikipedia, I detected a noticeable absence of criticisms of the concept/phenomenon despite there being a large body of criticism. Perhpas some members of this project might wish to look the articles over and determine if some balance can be added. Please be aware that these beliefs border on areas of spirituality and religion and as a result, generate very strong feelings in some readers and editors. Also, since these children are usually also suffering from autism or some other disorder, please be cautious about any characterizations of the children themselves.
The articles are:
Please take a look-see when you have time. There is quite the cottage industry now in supporting the homeschooling of "Indigo" kids and in alternative therapies for their many mental health and physical health issues. There is even a new subdidvision of "Indigo" Kids called "Crystal Kids" butthere is not an article on them yet. Just google the terms and you'll see how popular these subjects have become. LiPollis 16:25, 18 May 2007 (UTC)
Conspiracy Con has been nominated for deletion--even after extensive sourcing. Please give your comments/vote. Thanks. - Eερ² ( t| c) 21:47, 18 May 2007 (UTC)
Scientific skepticism has had a lot of material tagged as uncited and removed, replaced, and removed again. It may need attention to cite things. (A strange thing is that PerfectBlue97 is tagging and removing, yet PerfectBlue removes cited material, removes citations, and changes sourced statements to read differently from what the source said, in at least one other article.) Bubba73 (talk), 00:53, 23 May 2007 (UTC)
This article is a mess again. Heim theory is a notable borderline-pseudoscientific theory, but the article is currently presenting it as real science, and giving excuses for the lack of reputable sources. We need to improve this to comply with WP:ARB/PS, WP:V, and WP:NOR. -- Philosophus T 18:32, 27 May 2007 (UTC)
There is a request for comment on the article BDORT, which is about a patented "alternative medecine technique". Thought this request might interest someone here. It is not about the validity of the technique (which few people in the argument are seeking to defend), but whether a New Zealand medical tribunal is discussing the patented technique or something else with the same name. See:
Thanks. 13:20, 6 June 2007 (UTC)
You all might be interested in the deletion debate over these two articles. They are supposedly "promotional" and non-neutral, though I've been working very hard to present them in a neutral way, add notable criticism from reliable sources, etc.
I really think it's important that we have articles about these, as long as they are maintained in a neutral state. A lot of people believe the " water-fuelled car" crap and we need to debunk it.
Considering that promoters of this "technology" have tried to get the article deleted in the past, I think it's going in the right direction. :-) — Omegatron 13:53, 8 June 2007 (UTC)
Isaac Asimov has been nominated for a featured article review. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. Please leave your comments and help us to return the article to featured quality. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, articles are moved onto the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Remove" the article from featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. Reviewers' concerns are here.
Someone has evidently been tagging away with {{ Rational Skepticism}} -- Good job! Smee 09:39, 13 June 2007 (UTC).
A user prematurely wants to jump to arbitration after just a few edit reversions in the Jamie Hyneman article. From a quote in which Hyneman said he is pretty much against the whole God thing without explaining the specifics of what he meant, one user is insisting on calling either an atheist or (worse because it involves vague language we don't use in an encyclopedia) likely an atheist. There is a clear difference between atheism and agnosticism, and the Hyneman quote does not indicate that he is either. Actually, a person could be against God and still believe God exists. That seems unlikely in this class, but that's my point: It involves telling the readers how to interpret his sentence. Could someone please weigh on in the issue at Talk:Jamie_Hyneman and maybe help those people resolve this? Doczilla 17:08, 8 July 2007 (UTC)
Geologic column looks fairly reasonable (if unreferenced), but most references to it on the web are from creationist sites (at least, the ones I clicked on were). Is this a creationist neologism? Totnesmartin 15:34, 9 July 2007 (UTC)
After being exposed to mouth breathers who actually believe in quacks like Sylvia Browne, I'm wondering how you guys deal with the thousands of editors who should have been blocked for spreading propaganda. I mean why is it against the rules to call the scum that is Ms. Browne a Quack? She is for Christ sake! Apparently, I can't tell them to get lost casually (I made a banner telling them to). How do you deal with these magic-minded fools? Science Solider 18:08, 11 July 2007 (UTC)
I'm alarmed by no. 4 of your goals. Wikipedia is not a campaigning organization. The project should not be dedicated to rooting out the truth about pseudoscience. Many would consider that to be a worthy aim, but if you consult the policies, you will see that it is not consistent with Wikipedia's aims, which are more limited. Can you assure everyone that this is not a POV project? Itsmejudith 21:49, 12 July 2007 (UTC)
Wikipedia:Fringe theories/Noticeboard needs more eyes. Moreschi Talk 18:40, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
I thought some of the editors here might be interested in this noticeboard, which seems to deal primarily with fringe theories, which seems to be at least part of the scope of this project. John Carter 18:53, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
I saw that there was a need for a logo upon joining this project, and I have provided two. #1 is a more simplistic image, #2 is a bit more detailed but also my preffered choice, as it is slightly humorous while encapsulating the goal of the project
See what ya'll think. They are my own work and I still have the base files so I can easily make any changes you would like.-- Scorpion451 18:38, 14 July 2007 (UTC)
Both logo's have their problems. Firstly, both suggest that skepticism is a branch of paranormal investigation when it is in fact a multi-disciplinary branch of investigative science that often works with things that are completely unrelated to the paranormal. For example, the investigation of perpetual motion or alternative scientific hypothesis and history. Secondly, both suggest that skepticism is aimed at debunking. Debunking is the purposeful pursuit of evidence against something. skepticism is the investigation of all evidence and the reaching of conclusions based on said findings. A person who sets out specifically to find evidence against something isn't a skeptic, they are a non-believer, which is very different because they have a preconceived bias that said something is false. The current log is best. - perfectblue 12:03, 7 October 2007 (UTC)
The logo is useful for our project templates. Scorpion, were you aware of the Earth and ? image? I think it's the best of the three. Λυδαcιτγ 23:43, 14 July 2007 (UTC)
On the project page there is a request for a logo for this project in the things to do list, so I assume that either there is a problem with this image such as a copyright issue, or this is a old request that needs to be removed. Personally I still like #2 better but i'm biased.-- Scorpion451 01:24, 15 July 2007 (UTC)
I lost my account password on my other computer and so began editing as User:Velikovsky to look at some of the catastrophism pseudoscience. I was surprised that Ian Tresman was editing he is extremely well-connected in the Society for Interdisciplinary Studies and makes much of his living by doing web-design for that group. I don't think he should be editing those pages and posted a WP:COI warning on his page which he did not take kindly too. He also reverted a change I made to Anthony Peratt's page about his new-found amicas with Velikovsky supporters. This user reverted it and placed a warning at User talk:Velikovsky. I'm in over my head. Can anyone help me? -- Mainstream astronomy 20:04, 14 July 2007 (UTC)
Two editors seem to be in an edit war at Lunar effect. Bubba73 (talk), 21:26, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
Pigasus Award is up for deletion. Bubba73 (talk), 02:01, 23 July 2007 (UTC)
I've recently started an article with this topic to move adverts from the Dyslexia article to a more appropriate place. The problem persists: the link to Alternative therapy (disability) has been repeatedly deleted from the Dyslexia article, and there is an edit war between me and user:armarshall who works for www.dyslexia.com, a website promoting a batty therapy called Davis Dyslexia Correction. I had to include a table explaining the reason for certain therapies being controversial (there are loads more to come) so that they wouldn't be deleted from the article. It seems that nothing really helps. The Dyslexia article has been improving, but it's still a mess, and I'm having problems with the alternative page. Could you help me with this? You could leave your comments in the talk page. I've expressed my willingness to make improvements to reach a consensus, but I guess my opponent simply wants to destroy the article. Piechjo 16:02, 26 July 2007 (UTC)
Could someone with a proper academic background please take a look at this article. During the last few days it has been the subject of a whitewash that introduced a bunch of details from Red Rain studies. ˉˉ anetode ╦╩ 01:12, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
That's a tough one to judge on, because it is one of those that there is enough real science in it (as in organic chemicals from comets jump starting life, ect.) to have real research into it, but also "fringe" enough to attract the, shall we say, "wishful thinkers". We may need to get wikiproject science on to this one.-- Scorpion451 rant 23:13, 29 July 2007 (UTC)
The result of this arbitration is now up. Totnesmartin 12:06, 28 July 2007 (UTC)
Look again, it seems (or at least the intro does, which is the most important bit) to be fairly neutral now - psychic abilities are merely said to exist, rather than definitely existing (or definitely not). Totnesmartin 15:23, 28 July 2007 (UTC)
Because it is used to frame other articles, the Psychic article has to be very carefully done (not that it wouldn't anyway). I look at it this way: the word "psychic," when seen as a cultural artifact, encompasses the entire controversy surrounding whether the powers are real or not. A proper understanding of the word "psychic" includes knowledge of the controversy. Thus, if a reader is linked to the Psychic article, and the Psychic article contains information about the controversy, it is OK just to say someone is a psychic. If you want to distinguish a mentalist, you just say that the person does not claim to actually have psychic powers, but only simulates them. Otherwise you just say "psychic," and thus refer the reader to the controversy. This system won't work unless articles which we use to "frame" the subject do contain a section on the controversy (in cases where the subject is taken seriously- I doubt you'd need a whole section in an article on unicorns).
So here's the formulation: "A psychic is someone with psychic powers. Critics say psychic powers may/do not exist." That's what the word "psychic" tells the reader. Martinphi ( Talk Ψ Contribs) 01:50, 29 July 2007 (UTC)
""Psychic" or "clairvoyant" and similar terms are cultural artifacts, not people or things which necessarily exist. A psychic may not have psychic abilities, nor does use of the term imply that such abilities exist." [2]
Antelan, I'm merely repeating what the ArbCom decided. We don't include full definitions of each word in an article. Rather, we link it where it is important. Now, if there were no skepticism in the Psychic article, then you would have a really good point. Martinphi ( Talk Ψ Contribs) 22:10, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
The Casein article is in need of some premptive editing- it is headed towards an edit war, as good information is being buried under contrevsial claims. For example, a paragraph about a study linking casein to blockage of flavenoids in the bloodstream (a valid study, interesting) ends with the candid quote from a magazine, "[i]t probably also blocks tea's effect on other things, such as cancer."(word for word quote) Casein also has been tenatively linked to an aggravation of symptoms of autism (not a cause, an aggrivation), but the studies on this are still in early stages and the jury is still out. The theory is that the digestive problems frequently accompanying autism cause the body to process casein incorrectly.
To add to the pot, casein is a naturally occuring edible polymer found in milk. It is used in everything from plasics to dietary suppliments, even paint, protective coatings, fabric, and oddly is a primary ingredient in cotton candy (providing structure). Due to the amount of space devoted to the "dangers of evil satan-invention casein" there is little information about a chemical that like duct tape seems to be everywhere and holds our planet together. (by the way, I think it's in duct tape too. XD)-- Scorpion451 rant 03:41, 1 August 2007 (UTC)
This article has been nominated as a candidate for the collaboration above. If you would be interested in helping to improve this article in this collaboration, please indicate as much there. Thank you. John Carter 22:39, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
Any chance of a blitz on this? 1) The style has gone completely pear-shaped; it's been allowed to develop into a turgid academic literature survey of every damn thing published on the subject, rather than an accessible Wikipedia article for the general reader. It needs heavy trimming and editing for style. 2) There are big article ownership issues, with it dominated by one openly biased editor who is devoted largely to collecting pro-orthomolecular references. 81.132.98.197 02:13, 3 August 2007 (UTC)
Having looked over the article, I was shocked to find the rarest of all articles on a fringe theory: a well cited, mostly balanced and NPOV (not perfect, but it presented both sides fairly evenly), well written (again, mostly), article that avoids ranting about pharmacuetical companies for the most part. The problem seems to come in that the above mentioned author is terrified that the article will be deleted as OR or having unreliable sources, so has included every single source that appears on google or elsewhere. I think that this is one case where the problem might be convincing the person that it is okay not to cite so many viable sources.-- Scorpion451 rant 04:08, 3 August 2007 (UTC)
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I thought this wikiproject might be interested in this article Growing Earth Theory and since I didn't see it categorized by this group, I decided to bring it to your attention. Remember 03:02, 6 August 2007 (UTC)
It's real and passed AFD, but needs work on OR, NPOV and reliability of sourcing. 86.155.205.243 08:33, 21 August 2007 (UTC)
I'd like to recruit a bit of a hand in poking the Reiki article into neutrality. There's currently a bit of a true believer, who has a contribution history over the past 3 months of nearly nothing the Reiki article. He seems to listen to argument, but every change in the direction of NPOV comes with a certain degree of struggle... POV and weasel words could be reduced, along with general wordiness and an amazing degree of over-citation of questionable literature... -- Xinit 12:30, 28 August 2007 (UTC)
Hi. I perhaps mistakenly put my notice of concern about Facilitated communication up at Wikipedia:Fringe_theories/Noticeboard. The editor who responded wasn't aware that FC is completely bogus. Maybe someone here with some knowledge and energy can act? -- Wfaxon 16:03, 30 August 2007 (UTC)
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