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Anyone fancy writing an article on the Cup its self? From what I can tell there have been a number of Cups awarded down the years Gnevin ( talk) 14:32, 29 May 2011 (UTC)
Discuss here please - Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of rugby union incidents-- MacRusgail ( talk) 17:09, 2 June 2011 (UTC)
I have opened a discussion topic on the talk page of this infobox template. Contributions would be useful in determining the direction I take with this template. – Pee Jay 20:24, 6 June 2011 (UTC)
If you have any comments please leave here: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/2008 Heineken Cup Final -- Bob ( talk) 20:45, 10 June 2011 (UTC)
Template:Sport honours has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at
the template's entry on the Templates for discussion page. —
W
F
C— 21:32, 10 June 2011 (UTC)
Within the listing of Engalnd players, derived from data from espn scrum.com, there are a number of players about which there is little biographical detail to the extent that only their initials were listed. This intrigued me, because the information at scrum.com normally has the forenames and a birth date. I made it a little mission to look further into these players and have been returning to this mini-project on a number of occassions. I have made some progress, but there are still gaps and I thought that highlighting it to the wider community might help fill those gaps. I have listed the players here: User:Kwib/Unknown England players project. If anyone has information and can jump in, that would be excellent.
I have also done the same thing for a number of early Scotland players, but have not been as structured, yet. I am sure this phenomenon occurs in all the major rugby nations player rolls. Kwib ( talk) 20:15, 14 June 2011 (UTC)
I would add that among these players I think I have identified the first Australian, first South African and first Welshman to play international rugby. Might be wrong but I am fairly confident. Kwib ( talk) 20:19, 14 June 2011 (UTC)
Hi all. Just some advice that Wikipedia:Notability (sports)#Rugby union has been read by at least one editor as stating that International rugby players in the pre-professional era can never satisfy the guideline and therefore WP:GNG must be strictly applied (see Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Bill Hirschberg). This seems to me to be an absurd and tendentious reading but perhaps some clarification is needed. Cheers, Mattinbgn ( talk) 00:55, 17 June 2011 (UTC)
This is as it appears now:
I suggest rewording as follows:
Comments? -- Bob ( talk) 20:08, 20 June 2011 (UTC)
Just noticed your sentence "Players who do not meet the above parameters must also pass WP:GNG." I don't think you can/should put this in there as players still have to meet GNG even if they meet any of the specific criteria for any sport. This is spelled out clearly in NSPORTS in a number of places so probably doesn't have to be reiterated here, and the current wording implies those who meet the criteria are notable without meeting GNG which isn't true. Otherwise I have no opinion since I know little of the sport. - DJSasso ( talk) 01:21, 21 June 2011 (UTC)
Definitely agree that Bob's revised list is a significant improvement. In response to The-Pope, I don't quite see why there would be any need for duplication with the heading structure I've suggested. In any case, thinking again, a single unified list might be better still, with the three amateur categories brought into a single list:
BlueThird ( talk) 02:11, 21 June 2011 (UTC)
I think this is on the right track, but have a few more comments. I am not overly familiar with the tier system, but a quick look seems to suggest that nations can be promoted. Georgia and Namibia are said to be tier 2 here, [1] but wikipedia classifies them as tier 3 (Russia has been promoted too I believe). While it probably won't be an issue if teams are only promoted, if nations are demoted to tier 3 a lot of players who were notable under these guidelines as written would suddenly not be. Maybe point 1 should be reworded to something like played in, coached or administered a nation that has at some point since ???? [whatever date the three tier system came in] been classified as first or second tier or, to cover such an eventuality. I don't think the year 1871 is needed as it starts off saying A Rugby Union person and if they were involved before 1871 it would not have been with Rugby union. Maybe point 2 (and the other related ones) should not use "finals" so no one could potentially misunderstand and think that they have to actually get to the finals at the tournament. AIRcorn (talk) 11:00, 23 June 2011 (UTC)
Again, comments? -- Bob ( talk) 01:58, 24 June 2011 (UTC)
I will post these to the WP:RU/N and WP:RU on July 1st as I will assume consensus if no other comments made by then. -- Bob247 ( talk) 21:25, 28 June 2011 (UTC)
No reason not to put that in the notes. Already listed through the link as well. -- Bob247 ( talk) 18:42, 30 June 2011 (UTC)
Posted to WP:RU/N -- Bob247 ( talk) 17:48, 3 July 2011 (UTC)
Just made a start on this less-than-stellar episode of Australian rugby history. As you can see I'm thin on tour match details and the touring squad must surely have been longer. Any help appreciated to flesh it out. - Sticks 66 01:44, 22 June 2011 (UTC)
As part of my own personal small project to get an article on everyone who's ever played first-class cricket for Somerset County Cricket Club over at WP:CRIC, I've done a stub article on John Currie (sportsman), who played in one first-class match for Somerset in 1953 and then a further nine for Oxford University in 1956 and 1957. In view of his far more glittering career as a rugby player, I've left the article structure such that the cricket is a bit of a footnote, should anyone from here care to fill in any of the rugby details, and I'll hold back on a cricket-style infobox, because I think a rugby one should take priority. I'm not a rugby follower, so I'd hesitate before doing it myself. Johnlp ( talk) 09:41, 25 June 2011 (UTC)
I created a WP:DELSORT at Wikipedia:WikiProject Deletion sorting/Rugby union in case anyone is interested in keeping an eye on relevant discussions. AIRcorn (talk) 06:52, 1 July 2011 (UTC)
Any info on this widely played but little known sport would be appreciated.-- MacRusgail ( talk) 15:24, 4 July 2011 (UTC)
Edit to add - any info or help please would be appreciated. No "help" of the type already offered by one project member, thank you very much.-- MacRusgail ( talk) 15:23, 7 July 2011 (UTC)
I started a discussion at Talk:Rugby union positions#Section Names (yet again) about using a bot to replace the positional templates with redirects. There has been limited response so far, but as this could affect a lot of rugby articles I would like a decent consensus before implementing any changes. AIRcorn (talk) 22:49, 5 July 2011 (UTC)
I've created the article on the Staffordshire cricketer Richard Downend. His CricketArchive profile says he also played rugby. [2] I'm not a rugby follower, but if someone could fill out the rugby section that would be great. Thanks. AssociateAffiliate ( talk) 21:01, 7 July 2011 (UTC)
Hi there. I'm a participant on WikiProject Rugby league, and I'm currently attempting to make changes to our biographical infobox. The two changes I'm trying to put through are a greater amount of flexibility with British rugby league terminology and using {{ tooltip}} where column headers such as "Pld" and "T" use shorthand. You can see examples here. These changes would not affect the vast majority of rugby union players, since they use a different infobox, but cross-code players who use the rugby league biographical infobox, such as Karmichael Hunt, will be affected by these changes. It looks a bit awkward having one part of the infobox with {{ tooltip}} and the others not, but it wouldn't be fair for me to put through these changes when other sports WPs are covering the article:
Thanks, GW (talk) 20:34, 8 July 2011 (UTC)
See discussion at Talk:Reds (Super rugby team)#Requested move where your views are welcome. -- Mattinbgn ( talk) 05:57, 11 July 2011 (UTC)
Discussion posted at Talk:Philippines national rugby union team. -- Bob247 ( talk) 21:26, 12 July 2011 (UTC)
Discussion posted at Talk:South Korea national rugby union team. -- Bob247 ( talk) 00:33, 13 July 2011 (UTC)
I have been thinking for a while that it would be nice to make the Wikiproject a bit more attractive and accessible. I have taken some ideas from WP:MILHIST and WP:MCB and had a play in my sandbox (see User:Aircorn/Rugby). I have documented the content changes I made on the talk page User talk:Aircorn/Rugby. I realise that it may have been better to get consensus that a change is desirable first and will have no problem if the status quo is kept or a completely different approach is taken. If anyone wishes to suggest or make changes to the sandbox Wikiproject they are more than welcome to, particularly adding back in any sub pages or wordings they think are useful. AIRcorn (talk) 00:45, 28 July 2011 (UTC)
Hello
this article is really true about his international performances ? I don't find anything in scrum stats. Is it only advertising ? Ddfree ( talk) 09:17, 31 July 2011 (UTC)
If a club has had no feature length articles in major news magazines/sources/books but only coverage in the form of match reports/training schedules, should an article be created? The Pinner and Grammerians RFC is currently being considered for deletion under this standard. However, I posit that 80% of the clubs listed in Wikipedia are in the same potential situtaion of failing the standard being set for inclusion in this Afd. If this article is deleted, then most of the articles describing rugby union clubs should be deleted for the same reasons. In this vain we will have no coverage of any clubs outside of the top tiers of rugby union. If that is the consensus, then sobeit and I will start nominating entire categories of clubs. However, I thought that the members of WP:RU (who should have been notified by the nominator through simple courtesy) should have input to this potential precedent. -- Bob247 ( talk) 16:21, 4 August 2011 (UTC)
I wouldn't use soccer clubs as a guide to rugby. They've got huge amounts of money involved in just about everything, and a thousand times more coverage than they actually deserve!
It should be pointed out that while there are a number of professional rugby union clubs out there, plenty of amateur clubs qualify as notable. The majority of RU history has been (officially) amateur, bar recent professionalism and frequent shamateurism. -- MacRusgail ( talk) 11:38, 5 August 2011 (UTC)
Criteria as I see them:
It would be good to have a few more. Sadly, I'm not sure my own old club really qualifies!-- MacRusgail ( talk) 20:33, 8 August 2011 (UTC)
Amalgamating the suggestions above I have worded the following:
A rugby union club is deemed notable if it has
Comments? -- Bob247 ( talk) 00:37, 12 August 2011 (UTC)
These are good, but I still feel that they leave out ome notable sides outside the major playing nations.-- MacRusgail ( talk) 19:07, 16 August 2011 (UTC)
This seems to have been forgotten. Any objections to moving Bobs numbered points above along with one for USA college teams participated in the United States of America College Premier Division into the Wikipedia:WikiProject Rugby union/Notability page. It should at least give a base for any further reworkings and doesn't disqualify any clubs that meet GNG through other means. AIRcorn (talk) 06:16, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
Can people please look over this list - User:MacRusgail/Sandbox13 - and remove/add any players who don't belong on this list. As far as I know, no player for the British Isles XV was capless after 1950.- MacRusgail ( talk) 13:19, 8 August 2011 (UTC) [Edit to add: I am aware of the Irish flag issue, but this presumably can be fixed]
One question, why are the Argentine tourists italicized? -- Bob247 ( talk) 00:39, 12 August 2011 (UTC)
In case anyone is interested I recently requested a clean-up list. It is added to the main page under links or it can be accessed here. AIRcorn (talk) 05:08, 14 August 2011 (UTC)
Hello Rugby folks, I added an article about Jovesa Naivalu based on his experiences in track and field, but I understand he has performed mainly in rugby since 1999. He has played for the US National team and for some professional clubs. I hope someone of your group could fill in the blanks of his significant activities in your sport that I am only marginally familiar with. Trackinfo ( talk) 13:33, 17 August 2011 (UTC)
I've got a dilemma with the current notability guidlines within the rugby union project. I would like to update all Germany-related player articles after the 2010-11 season has ended but there may be little point as the new notability guidlines (from 3 July 2011) make a large amount of the players in Category:German rugby union players now non-notable. When created, the players fullfilled the projects notability guidlines, which stated that a player Appeared in at least one test match to be notable, which all have, having played in ENC Division 1 or 2, the official senior FIRA competition. Since then however, the guidline has been changed. Would they be association footballers, they would be notable, as the guidlines there say: Players, managers and referees who have represented their country in any officially sanctioned senior international competition (including the Olympics) are notable as they have achieved the status of participating at the highest level of football. However, being rugby players, they are not, which is a bit inconsistent. Personally, I don't want to invest anymore time in rugby-union related articles if the articles could be deleted tomorrow, would anybody chose to nominate them, but I also don't like them having their information being outdated. Personally, I don't believe in the current notability guidlines which basically makes rugby outside the handful of traditional nations non-notable but they have been approved by the majority, therefore we have to accept them.
Where to go from here? Any suggestions? Will the policy be applied retrospectivey? Calistemon ( talk) 13:21, 18 August 2011 (UTC)
Realisticly, about 70 of the 93 in the category don't make the current guideline. The range of those outside the guidelines is quite large, for example:
The purpose of rugby notability guidelines is not to provide a definitive answer on notability, but to provide an easy way to determine the likelihood that someone is notable. From WP:BIO#Basic criteria: A notable person is "the subject of multiple published, non-trivial, secondary sources which are reliable, intellectually independent,and independent of the subject". People who meet the rugby guidelines are presumed to also meet these general notability inclusion criteria, even if it is not made obvious in the article. Under the current rugby notability guidelines international players from Tier 3 (now classified as Non-High Performance Unions) that have not played in teams competing at a world cup are not presumed to automatically meet the general notability guidelines. That doesn't mean they aren't notable, just that they have to be shown to be so in the article. AIRcorn (talk) 04:13, 19 August 2011 (UTC)
The irony here is that the East German team existed before professionalisation, but as we know (cough) a lot of Iron Curtain amateurs were somewhat professional in their earnings... - MacRusgail ( talk) 19:30, 12 September 2011 (UTC)
I am a foreiner, I did not play myself it sports but I understood that somebody should made templates for Rugby sevens outside of the current rugby unions templates, like in FIFA article and organization control and rule the Association football and his 2 big variants futsal and beach soccer and at the end of the article you can see his independient templates, they all are in the same wikiproject, Wikipedia:WikiProject Football, there is separeted World Cups of Rugby 15 and rugby sevens, we need more separated templates of it "separated" sports, rugby sevens is a olympics sport, the orginal 15 not. we need a Template:International rugby sevens-- Feroang ( talk) 01:47, 30 August 2011 (UTC)
I removed the list of Jewish players who have not appeared at the Maccabiah Games as their inclusion was irrelevant to the subject of that article. This was reverted by User:MacRusgail. Please comment if we should include a list of people who have not appeared at these games. -- Bob247 ( talk) 19:08, 30 August 2011 (UTC)
I've just started on an article on André Watson and was wondering which infobox I should use for referees. After adding {{ Infobox Rugby Union biography}} (which has referee fields) I noticed it seems to have been superceded by {{ Infobox rugby biography}} (which doesn't have referee fields). Hack ( talk) 05:10, 31 August 2011 (UTC)
I have recently been working on articles relating to Rugby union gameplay, Rugby union laws and Rugby union positions. Apart from the Rugby union article (which User:FruitMonkey has been getting ready for WP:GA review) I feel these might be the most useful for anyone who has never seen a game before and wants to know whats happening. The laws is pretty complete, I still need to go through the loose forwards and add sevens to the positions and have not yet started on gameplay (although I have left a rough outline of how I see it panning out on the talk page). I am hoping to get these up to standard before the RWC kicks off and it would be good to get some fresh eyes on them to make sure nothing major has been missed out or is incorrect. I will put them through peer review as I finish and ask for non-rugby watchers to get an idea of their general readability. AIRcorn (talk) 00:04, 4 September 2011 (UTC)
Gentlemen, I partly rewrote that article adding references (and removing broken links). Could any native speaker please correct possible English errors? -- SERGIO aka the Black Cat 11:46, 6 September 2011 (UTC)
I have a question for the members of this WikiProject concerning the article Football and links to it. Football is a general article on all the related sports that go by that name, and, although it is an article and not a disambiguation page, it has one of the characteristic liabilities of a dab page: It has a lot of links to it that are actually intended for another article. In this case, most of the incorrect links are intended for either Association football or American football, with smaller numbers intending Australian rules football, Gaelic football, etc. There is however one other very large group of articles that link to Football: Biographies of rugby players, many of which begin, "Joe Player is a rugby union [or rugby league ] [[football]]er..."
Now there is absolutely nothing wrong or against any policy about this linking to the Football article. But because there are several hundred such links from rugby bios, it does make it much more difficult for an editor (myself, natch) to find the incorrect links, especially new ones, that should go to the article for a specific code. I have changed a few of these links to rugby football, but most I've left alone so far. There are, I think, four possible ways to proceed:
Let me reiterate that there is nothing wrong with linking to the Football article; it is merely inconvenient from an editorial point of view. The issue should be decided based on what's best for users, with the editorial issue only coming into it if you see no difference among the choices as far as user-friendliness (access to information, readability, etc.). So keep it, change it, unlink it, or combine it? I will gladly abide by whatever consensus is reached; I just wanted some feedback before doing anything more. (And I'll be copying this to Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Rugby league.) Cheers!-- ShelfSkewed Talk 16:58, 7 September 2011 (UTC)
Hi, I've just created the article on the Durham cricketer Edgar Elliot. He also played four Tests for England, for which I've added a basic reference for from ESPNscrum. I don't follow rugby union, so thought I'd post him here to see if anyone wants to expand the rugby section. AssociateAffiliate ( talk) 14:03, 10 September 2011 (UTC)
Does any one else think that the infoboxes for rugby players look a lot better on the French Wikipedia?
For example, compare Francois Louw here and on the French version. Also, I've never understood why we need to split super rugby/premiership/provincial rugby etc. into different sections. Mr.Apples2010 ( talk) 17:03, 24 September 2011 (UTC)
I've nominated Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Parkmore RFC and other similar clubs for deletion. Have a look Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Parkmore RFC Gnevin ( talk) 10:48, 3 October 2011 (UTC)
at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Swords RFC it has been argued that the club passes Wikipedia:WikiProject Rugby union/Notability by simply playing in a competition organised by a tier one nation looking at the current wording it's hard to disagree, surely this wasn't the intention of this project? Gnevin ( talk) 23:57, 3 October 2011 (UTC)
Here. -- SERGIO aka the Black Cat 09:12, 14 October 2011 (UTC)
![]() | "WikiProject Report" would like to focus on WikiProject Rugby union for an upcoming edition of The Signpost. This is an excellent opportunity to draw attention to your efforts and attract new members to the project. Would you be willing to participate in an interview? If so, you can find the interview questions here. Just add your response below each question and feel free to skip any questions that you don't feel comfortable answering. If you have any questions, you can leave a note on my talk page. Have a great day. – SMasters ( talk) 02:01, 15 October 2011 (UTC) |
Could we please have a more appropriate info-box section for those rugby players who have played for the Barbarian F.C., as has been discussed on the Barbarian F.C. talk page here. At current, the Barbarian team representation has to be included under “club teams”. However, this is obviously very incorrect and inaccurate because Barbarian F.C. is not a club team. It is actually an “invitational” (or possibly “representative”) team- as was mentioned on the Barbarian F.C. talk page. Therefore, I think it is of urgent importance that Wikipedia rectify this inaccuracy. Thank you very much. Suid-Afrikaanse ( talk) 09:07, 20 October 2011 (UTC)
I totally disagree that having an invitational title will make it too unwieldy. How many REPUTABLE invitational’s do you think a rugby player represents? Not many in fact. So your worries are unfounded to say the least. I agree: it would affect a great many articles. But Wikipedia is about including what is correct, and not worrying about what is difficult or too big a task. Cheers. Suid-Afrikaanse ( talk) 04:30, 21 October 2011 (UTC)
Once again I completely disagree. In no way will “adding every possible team, particularly invitation teams, that a player has played for will bloat these infoboxes unnecessarily and unhelpfully”. This is incorrect simply because players do not play for many invitational teams to start with, and even less invitational teams that are noteworthy. I am not saying you have to add the team the pub down the street invited a player to partake in; only those teams that are noteworthy and well known- and there are not many of those.
Also, about your accusation of my ulterior motive; I say: yes I am pursuing this because this issue was brought to my attention while editing the SBW article. However, the club/team title is not as good as say an “Invitational” title. This is about making the SBW article reflect a more accurate reality i.e. that SBW played for the Barbarians which is an invitational team and as such should be expressed correctly in the info-box. I make no apologies about correcting content, despite your attempts to make me feel guilty. And your attempt to portray me as editing for ulterior motives is becoming so repetitive as to smack of desperation. Have you not also edited more than 90% of your edits on SBW?! So what sets you apart from me, other than the fact that your edits seek to remove content hastily? You say: “It is disingenuous for you to claim here that this is an urgent matter for Wikipedia as a whole, when you are only concerned with adding more material to your pet article.” I respond: “It is disingenuous for you to remove the Barbarians from the info-box to claim a corect and righteous stance, when you are only concerned with removing it from your pet article and not all other articles that have the exact same thing. Suid-Afrikaanse ( talk) 07:08, 21 October 2011 (UTC)
The Craig Joubert article is getting a bit of attention presumably from unhappy French. This is probably worth monitoring for a while. The article is pretty spare for a referee of his standing and could probably do with some expanding. Hack ( talk) 01:21, 26 October 2011 (UTC)
Hello. I've created an aticle on the Anglo-Scottish cricketer James Alexander Simson Taylor. He's meant to have played rugby for Leicester and became an international rugby referee, so as I don't follow rugby or have a clue where to find sources for that information, I thought I'd post it here to see if anyone who knows what they're talking about can add some information along those lines! AssociateAffiliate ( talk) 17:31, 30 October 2011 (UTC)
In case you haven't heard, this Springbok is in the news just now, for having been shot dead in a Cape Town bar. The article could do with being expanded.- MacRusgail ( talk) 16:54, 14 November 2011 (UTC)
Slightly related to the discussion above (which I hadn't noticed) there's a move discussion here which may be of interest to this project. pablo 14:07, 20 November 2011 (UTC)
Began a short stub-like piece at Rugby union in London. Football has an equivalent, which is a very good article, and there's definitely enough on rugby union to warrant another. I'll get toe expanding it when I have some time, but any help much appreciated! Grunners ( talk) 11:36, 25 November 2011 (UTC)
Your attention is requested at List of professional rugby positions. My inclination would be to send it to Wikipedia:AfD, but since I'm not a participant in your project I thought your group should dispose of it as you see fit. PK T(alk) 20:36, 27 November 2011 (UTC)
I did start this article 2011 in rugby union, like others sport do 2011 in rugby league, 2011 in association football, but I am not good enough to finish it, hope this community can take care of it turning it in the right way, which I dont know.-- Feroang ( talk) 03:51, 29 November 2011 (UTC)
Owen Sheers has received a very unusual honour from the Welsh Rugby Union - is the first? -- MacRusgail ( talk) 18:53, 12 December 2011 (UTC)
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 5 | ← | Archive 10 | Archive 11 | Archive 12 | Archive 13 | Archive 14 | Archive 15 |
Anyone fancy writing an article on the Cup its self? From what I can tell there have been a number of Cups awarded down the years Gnevin ( talk) 14:32, 29 May 2011 (UTC)
Discuss here please - Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of rugby union incidents-- MacRusgail ( talk) 17:09, 2 June 2011 (UTC)
I have opened a discussion topic on the talk page of this infobox template. Contributions would be useful in determining the direction I take with this template. – Pee Jay 20:24, 6 June 2011 (UTC)
If you have any comments please leave here: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/2008 Heineken Cup Final -- Bob ( talk) 20:45, 10 June 2011 (UTC)
Template:Sport honours has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at
the template's entry on the Templates for discussion page. —
W
F
C— 21:32, 10 June 2011 (UTC)
Within the listing of Engalnd players, derived from data from espn scrum.com, there are a number of players about which there is little biographical detail to the extent that only their initials were listed. This intrigued me, because the information at scrum.com normally has the forenames and a birth date. I made it a little mission to look further into these players and have been returning to this mini-project on a number of occassions. I have made some progress, but there are still gaps and I thought that highlighting it to the wider community might help fill those gaps. I have listed the players here: User:Kwib/Unknown England players project. If anyone has information and can jump in, that would be excellent.
I have also done the same thing for a number of early Scotland players, but have not been as structured, yet. I am sure this phenomenon occurs in all the major rugby nations player rolls. Kwib ( talk) 20:15, 14 June 2011 (UTC)
I would add that among these players I think I have identified the first Australian, first South African and first Welshman to play international rugby. Might be wrong but I am fairly confident. Kwib ( talk) 20:19, 14 June 2011 (UTC)
Hi all. Just some advice that Wikipedia:Notability (sports)#Rugby union has been read by at least one editor as stating that International rugby players in the pre-professional era can never satisfy the guideline and therefore WP:GNG must be strictly applied (see Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Bill Hirschberg). This seems to me to be an absurd and tendentious reading but perhaps some clarification is needed. Cheers, Mattinbgn ( talk) 00:55, 17 June 2011 (UTC)
This is as it appears now:
I suggest rewording as follows:
Comments? -- Bob ( talk) 20:08, 20 June 2011 (UTC)
Just noticed your sentence "Players who do not meet the above parameters must also pass WP:GNG." I don't think you can/should put this in there as players still have to meet GNG even if they meet any of the specific criteria for any sport. This is spelled out clearly in NSPORTS in a number of places so probably doesn't have to be reiterated here, and the current wording implies those who meet the criteria are notable without meeting GNG which isn't true. Otherwise I have no opinion since I know little of the sport. - DJSasso ( talk) 01:21, 21 June 2011 (UTC)
Definitely agree that Bob's revised list is a significant improvement. In response to The-Pope, I don't quite see why there would be any need for duplication with the heading structure I've suggested. In any case, thinking again, a single unified list might be better still, with the three amateur categories brought into a single list:
BlueThird ( talk) 02:11, 21 June 2011 (UTC)
I think this is on the right track, but have a few more comments. I am not overly familiar with the tier system, but a quick look seems to suggest that nations can be promoted. Georgia and Namibia are said to be tier 2 here, [1] but wikipedia classifies them as tier 3 (Russia has been promoted too I believe). While it probably won't be an issue if teams are only promoted, if nations are demoted to tier 3 a lot of players who were notable under these guidelines as written would suddenly not be. Maybe point 1 should be reworded to something like played in, coached or administered a nation that has at some point since ???? [whatever date the three tier system came in] been classified as first or second tier or, to cover such an eventuality. I don't think the year 1871 is needed as it starts off saying A Rugby Union person and if they were involved before 1871 it would not have been with Rugby union. Maybe point 2 (and the other related ones) should not use "finals" so no one could potentially misunderstand and think that they have to actually get to the finals at the tournament. AIRcorn (talk) 11:00, 23 June 2011 (UTC)
Again, comments? -- Bob ( talk) 01:58, 24 June 2011 (UTC)
I will post these to the WP:RU/N and WP:RU on July 1st as I will assume consensus if no other comments made by then. -- Bob247 ( talk) 21:25, 28 June 2011 (UTC)
No reason not to put that in the notes. Already listed through the link as well. -- Bob247 ( talk) 18:42, 30 June 2011 (UTC)
Posted to WP:RU/N -- Bob247 ( talk) 17:48, 3 July 2011 (UTC)
Just made a start on this less-than-stellar episode of Australian rugby history. As you can see I'm thin on tour match details and the touring squad must surely have been longer. Any help appreciated to flesh it out. - Sticks 66 01:44, 22 June 2011 (UTC)
As part of my own personal small project to get an article on everyone who's ever played first-class cricket for Somerset County Cricket Club over at WP:CRIC, I've done a stub article on John Currie (sportsman), who played in one first-class match for Somerset in 1953 and then a further nine for Oxford University in 1956 and 1957. In view of his far more glittering career as a rugby player, I've left the article structure such that the cricket is a bit of a footnote, should anyone from here care to fill in any of the rugby details, and I'll hold back on a cricket-style infobox, because I think a rugby one should take priority. I'm not a rugby follower, so I'd hesitate before doing it myself. Johnlp ( talk) 09:41, 25 June 2011 (UTC)
I created a WP:DELSORT at Wikipedia:WikiProject Deletion sorting/Rugby union in case anyone is interested in keeping an eye on relevant discussions. AIRcorn (talk) 06:52, 1 July 2011 (UTC)
Any info on this widely played but little known sport would be appreciated.-- MacRusgail ( talk) 15:24, 4 July 2011 (UTC)
Edit to add - any info or help please would be appreciated. No "help" of the type already offered by one project member, thank you very much.-- MacRusgail ( talk) 15:23, 7 July 2011 (UTC)
I started a discussion at Talk:Rugby union positions#Section Names (yet again) about using a bot to replace the positional templates with redirects. There has been limited response so far, but as this could affect a lot of rugby articles I would like a decent consensus before implementing any changes. AIRcorn (talk) 22:49, 5 July 2011 (UTC)
I've created the article on the Staffordshire cricketer Richard Downend. His CricketArchive profile says he also played rugby. [2] I'm not a rugby follower, but if someone could fill out the rugby section that would be great. Thanks. AssociateAffiliate ( talk) 21:01, 7 July 2011 (UTC)
Hi there. I'm a participant on WikiProject Rugby league, and I'm currently attempting to make changes to our biographical infobox. The two changes I'm trying to put through are a greater amount of flexibility with British rugby league terminology and using {{ tooltip}} where column headers such as "Pld" and "T" use shorthand. You can see examples here. These changes would not affect the vast majority of rugby union players, since they use a different infobox, but cross-code players who use the rugby league biographical infobox, such as Karmichael Hunt, will be affected by these changes. It looks a bit awkward having one part of the infobox with {{ tooltip}} and the others not, but it wouldn't be fair for me to put through these changes when other sports WPs are covering the article:
Thanks, GW (talk) 20:34, 8 July 2011 (UTC)
See discussion at Talk:Reds (Super rugby team)#Requested move where your views are welcome. -- Mattinbgn ( talk) 05:57, 11 July 2011 (UTC)
Discussion posted at Talk:Philippines national rugby union team. -- Bob247 ( talk) 21:26, 12 July 2011 (UTC)
Discussion posted at Talk:South Korea national rugby union team. -- Bob247 ( talk) 00:33, 13 July 2011 (UTC)
I have been thinking for a while that it would be nice to make the Wikiproject a bit more attractive and accessible. I have taken some ideas from WP:MILHIST and WP:MCB and had a play in my sandbox (see User:Aircorn/Rugby). I have documented the content changes I made on the talk page User talk:Aircorn/Rugby. I realise that it may have been better to get consensus that a change is desirable first and will have no problem if the status quo is kept or a completely different approach is taken. If anyone wishes to suggest or make changes to the sandbox Wikiproject they are more than welcome to, particularly adding back in any sub pages or wordings they think are useful. AIRcorn (talk) 00:45, 28 July 2011 (UTC)
Hello
this article is really true about his international performances ? I don't find anything in scrum stats. Is it only advertising ? Ddfree ( talk) 09:17, 31 July 2011 (UTC)
If a club has had no feature length articles in major news magazines/sources/books but only coverage in the form of match reports/training schedules, should an article be created? The Pinner and Grammerians RFC is currently being considered for deletion under this standard. However, I posit that 80% of the clubs listed in Wikipedia are in the same potential situtaion of failing the standard being set for inclusion in this Afd. If this article is deleted, then most of the articles describing rugby union clubs should be deleted for the same reasons. In this vain we will have no coverage of any clubs outside of the top tiers of rugby union. If that is the consensus, then sobeit and I will start nominating entire categories of clubs. However, I thought that the members of WP:RU (who should have been notified by the nominator through simple courtesy) should have input to this potential precedent. -- Bob247 ( talk) 16:21, 4 August 2011 (UTC)
I wouldn't use soccer clubs as a guide to rugby. They've got huge amounts of money involved in just about everything, and a thousand times more coverage than they actually deserve!
It should be pointed out that while there are a number of professional rugby union clubs out there, plenty of amateur clubs qualify as notable. The majority of RU history has been (officially) amateur, bar recent professionalism and frequent shamateurism. -- MacRusgail ( talk) 11:38, 5 August 2011 (UTC)
Criteria as I see them:
It would be good to have a few more. Sadly, I'm not sure my own old club really qualifies!-- MacRusgail ( talk) 20:33, 8 August 2011 (UTC)
Amalgamating the suggestions above I have worded the following:
A rugby union club is deemed notable if it has
Comments? -- Bob247 ( talk) 00:37, 12 August 2011 (UTC)
These are good, but I still feel that they leave out ome notable sides outside the major playing nations.-- MacRusgail ( talk) 19:07, 16 August 2011 (UTC)
This seems to have been forgotten. Any objections to moving Bobs numbered points above along with one for USA college teams participated in the United States of America College Premier Division into the Wikipedia:WikiProject Rugby union/Notability page. It should at least give a base for any further reworkings and doesn't disqualify any clubs that meet GNG through other means. AIRcorn (talk) 06:16, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
Can people please look over this list - User:MacRusgail/Sandbox13 - and remove/add any players who don't belong on this list. As far as I know, no player for the British Isles XV was capless after 1950.- MacRusgail ( talk) 13:19, 8 August 2011 (UTC) [Edit to add: I am aware of the Irish flag issue, but this presumably can be fixed]
One question, why are the Argentine tourists italicized? -- Bob247 ( talk) 00:39, 12 August 2011 (UTC)
In case anyone is interested I recently requested a clean-up list. It is added to the main page under links or it can be accessed here. AIRcorn (talk) 05:08, 14 August 2011 (UTC)
Hello Rugby folks, I added an article about Jovesa Naivalu based on his experiences in track and field, but I understand he has performed mainly in rugby since 1999. He has played for the US National team and for some professional clubs. I hope someone of your group could fill in the blanks of his significant activities in your sport that I am only marginally familiar with. Trackinfo ( talk) 13:33, 17 August 2011 (UTC)
I've got a dilemma with the current notability guidlines within the rugby union project. I would like to update all Germany-related player articles after the 2010-11 season has ended but there may be little point as the new notability guidlines (from 3 July 2011) make a large amount of the players in Category:German rugby union players now non-notable. When created, the players fullfilled the projects notability guidlines, which stated that a player Appeared in at least one test match to be notable, which all have, having played in ENC Division 1 or 2, the official senior FIRA competition. Since then however, the guidline has been changed. Would they be association footballers, they would be notable, as the guidlines there say: Players, managers and referees who have represented their country in any officially sanctioned senior international competition (including the Olympics) are notable as they have achieved the status of participating at the highest level of football. However, being rugby players, they are not, which is a bit inconsistent. Personally, I don't want to invest anymore time in rugby-union related articles if the articles could be deleted tomorrow, would anybody chose to nominate them, but I also don't like them having their information being outdated. Personally, I don't believe in the current notability guidlines which basically makes rugby outside the handful of traditional nations non-notable but they have been approved by the majority, therefore we have to accept them.
Where to go from here? Any suggestions? Will the policy be applied retrospectivey? Calistemon ( talk) 13:21, 18 August 2011 (UTC)
Realisticly, about 70 of the 93 in the category don't make the current guideline. The range of those outside the guidelines is quite large, for example:
The purpose of rugby notability guidelines is not to provide a definitive answer on notability, but to provide an easy way to determine the likelihood that someone is notable. From WP:BIO#Basic criteria: A notable person is "the subject of multiple published, non-trivial, secondary sources which are reliable, intellectually independent,and independent of the subject". People who meet the rugby guidelines are presumed to also meet these general notability inclusion criteria, even if it is not made obvious in the article. Under the current rugby notability guidelines international players from Tier 3 (now classified as Non-High Performance Unions) that have not played in teams competing at a world cup are not presumed to automatically meet the general notability guidelines. That doesn't mean they aren't notable, just that they have to be shown to be so in the article. AIRcorn (talk) 04:13, 19 August 2011 (UTC)
The irony here is that the East German team existed before professionalisation, but as we know (cough) a lot of Iron Curtain amateurs were somewhat professional in their earnings... - MacRusgail ( talk) 19:30, 12 September 2011 (UTC)
I am a foreiner, I did not play myself it sports but I understood that somebody should made templates for Rugby sevens outside of the current rugby unions templates, like in FIFA article and organization control and rule the Association football and his 2 big variants futsal and beach soccer and at the end of the article you can see his independient templates, they all are in the same wikiproject, Wikipedia:WikiProject Football, there is separeted World Cups of Rugby 15 and rugby sevens, we need more separated templates of it "separated" sports, rugby sevens is a olympics sport, the orginal 15 not. we need a Template:International rugby sevens-- Feroang ( talk) 01:47, 30 August 2011 (UTC)
I removed the list of Jewish players who have not appeared at the Maccabiah Games as their inclusion was irrelevant to the subject of that article. This was reverted by User:MacRusgail. Please comment if we should include a list of people who have not appeared at these games. -- Bob247 ( talk) 19:08, 30 August 2011 (UTC)
I've just started on an article on André Watson and was wondering which infobox I should use for referees. After adding {{ Infobox Rugby Union biography}} (which has referee fields) I noticed it seems to have been superceded by {{ Infobox rugby biography}} (which doesn't have referee fields). Hack ( talk) 05:10, 31 August 2011 (UTC)
I have recently been working on articles relating to Rugby union gameplay, Rugby union laws and Rugby union positions. Apart from the Rugby union article (which User:FruitMonkey has been getting ready for WP:GA review) I feel these might be the most useful for anyone who has never seen a game before and wants to know whats happening. The laws is pretty complete, I still need to go through the loose forwards and add sevens to the positions and have not yet started on gameplay (although I have left a rough outline of how I see it panning out on the talk page). I am hoping to get these up to standard before the RWC kicks off and it would be good to get some fresh eyes on them to make sure nothing major has been missed out or is incorrect. I will put them through peer review as I finish and ask for non-rugby watchers to get an idea of their general readability. AIRcorn (talk) 00:04, 4 September 2011 (UTC)
Gentlemen, I partly rewrote that article adding references (and removing broken links). Could any native speaker please correct possible English errors? -- SERGIO aka the Black Cat 11:46, 6 September 2011 (UTC)
I have a question for the members of this WikiProject concerning the article Football and links to it. Football is a general article on all the related sports that go by that name, and, although it is an article and not a disambiguation page, it has one of the characteristic liabilities of a dab page: It has a lot of links to it that are actually intended for another article. In this case, most of the incorrect links are intended for either Association football or American football, with smaller numbers intending Australian rules football, Gaelic football, etc. There is however one other very large group of articles that link to Football: Biographies of rugby players, many of which begin, "Joe Player is a rugby union [or rugby league ] [[football]]er..."
Now there is absolutely nothing wrong or against any policy about this linking to the Football article. But because there are several hundred such links from rugby bios, it does make it much more difficult for an editor (myself, natch) to find the incorrect links, especially new ones, that should go to the article for a specific code. I have changed a few of these links to rugby football, but most I've left alone so far. There are, I think, four possible ways to proceed:
Let me reiterate that there is nothing wrong with linking to the Football article; it is merely inconvenient from an editorial point of view. The issue should be decided based on what's best for users, with the editorial issue only coming into it if you see no difference among the choices as far as user-friendliness (access to information, readability, etc.). So keep it, change it, unlink it, or combine it? I will gladly abide by whatever consensus is reached; I just wanted some feedback before doing anything more. (And I'll be copying this to Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Rugby league.) Cheers!-- ShelfSkewed Talk 16:58, 7 September 2011 (UTC)
Hi, I've just created the article on the Durham cricketer Edgar Elliot. He also played four Tests for England, for which I've added a basic reference for from ESPNscrum. I don't follow rugby union, so thought I'd post him here to see if anyone wants to expand the rugby section. AssociateAffiliate ( talk) 14:03, 10 September 2011 (UTC)
Does any one else think that the infoboxes for rugby players look a lot better on the French Wikipedia?
For example, compare Francois Louw here and on the French version. Also, I've never understood why we need to split super rugby/premiership/provincial rugby etc. into different sections. Mr.Apples2010 ( talk) 17:03, 24 September 2011 (UTC)
I've nominated Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Parkmore RFC and other similar clubs for deletion. Have a look Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Parkmore RFC Gnevin ( talk) 10:48, 3 October 2011 (UTC)
at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Swords RFC it has been argued that the club passes Wikipedia:WikiProject Rugby union/Notability by simply playing in a competition organised by a tier one nation looking at the current wording it's hard to disagree, surely this wasn't the intention of this project? Gnevin ( talk) 23:57, 3 October 2011 (UTC)
Here. -- SERGIO aka the Black Cat 09:12, 14 October 2011 (UTC)
![]() | "WikiProject Report" would like to focus on WikiProject Rugby union for an upcoming edition of The Signpost. This is an excellent opportunity to draw attention to your efforts and attract new members to the project. Would you be willing to participate in an interview? If so, you can find the interview questions here. Just add your response below each question and feel free to skip any questions that you don't feel comfortable answering. If you have any questions, you can leave a note on my talk page. Have a great day. – SMasters ( talk) 02:01, 15 October 2011 (UTC) |
Could we please have a more appropriate info-box section for those rugby players who have played for the Barbarian F.C., as has been discussed on the Barbarian F.C. talk page here. At current, the Barbarian team representation has to be included under “club teams”. However, this is obviously very incorrect and inaccurate because Barbarian F.C. is not a club team. It is actually an “invitational” (or possibly “representative”) team- as was mentioned on the Barbarian F.C. talk page. Therefore, I think it is of urgent importance that Wikipedia rectify this inaccuracy. Thank you very much. Suid-Afrikaanse ( talk) 09:07, 20 October 2011 (UTC)
I totally disagree that having an invitational title will make it too unwieldy. How many REPUTABLE invitational’s do you think a rugby player represents? Not many in fact. So your worries are unfounded to say the least. I agree: it would affect a great many articles. But Wikipedia is about including what is correct, and not worrying about what is difficult or too big a task. Cheers. Suid-Afrikaanse ( talk) 04:30, 21 October 2011 (UTC)
Once again I completely disagree. In no way will “adding every possible team, particularly invitation teams, that a player has played for will bloat these infoboxes unnecessarily and unhelpfully”. This is incorrect simply because players do not play for many invitational teams to start with, and even less invitational teams that are noteworthy. I am not saying you have to add the team the pub down the street invited a player to partake in; only those teams that are noteworthy and well known- and there are not many of those.
Also, about your accusation of my ulterior motive; I say: yes I am pursuing this because this issue was brought to my attention while editing the SBW article. However, the club/team title is not as good as say an “Invitational” title. This is about making the SBW article reflect a more accurate reality i.e. that SBW played for the Barbarians which is an invitational team and as such should be expressed correctly in the info-box. I make no apologies about correcting content, despite your attempts to make me feel guilty. And your attempt to portray me as editing for ulterior motives is becoming so repetitive as to smack of desperation. Have you not also edited more than 90% of your edits on SBW?! So what sets you apart from me, other than the fact that your edits seek to remove content hastily? You say: “It is disingenuous for you to claim here that this is an urgent matter for Wikipedia as a whole, when you are only concerned with adding more material to your pet article.” I respond: “It is disingenuous for you to remove the Barbarians from the info-box to claim a corect and righteous stance, when you are only concerned with removing it from your pet article and not all other articles that have the exact same thing. Suid-Afrikaanse ( talk) 07:08, 21 October 2011 (UTC)
The Craig Joubert article is getting a bit of attention presumably from unhappy French. This is probably worth monitoring for a while. The article is pretty spare for a referee of his standing and could probably do with some expanding. Hack ( talk) 01:21, 26 October 2011 (UTC)
Hello. I've created an aticle on the Anglo-Scottish cricketer James Alexander Simson Taylor. He's meant to have played rugby for Leicester and became an international rugby referee, so as I don't follow rugby or have a clue where to find sources for that information, I thought I'd post it here to see if anyone who knows what they're talking about can add some information along those lines! AssociateAffiliate ( talk) 17:31, 30 October 2011 (UTC)
In case you haven't heard, this Springbok is in the news just now, for having been shot dead in a Cape Town bar. The article could do with being expanded.- MacRusgail ( talk) 16:54, 14 November 2011 (UTC)
Slightly related to the discussion above (which I hadn't noticed) there's a move discussion here which may be of interest to this project. pablo 14:07, 20 November 2011 (UTC)
Began a short stub-like piece at Rugby union in London. Football has an equivalent, which is a very good article, and there's definitely enough on rugby union to warrant another. I'll get toe expanding it when I have some time, but any help much appreciated! Grunners ( talk) 11:36, 25 November 2011 (UTC)
Your attention is requested at List of professional rugby positions. My inclination would be to send it to Wikipedia:AfD, but since I'm not a participant in your project I thought your group should dispose of it as you see fit. PK T(alk) 20:36, 27 November 2011 (UTC)
I did start this article 2011 in rugby union, like others sport do 2011 in rugby league, 2011 in association football, but I am not good enough to finish it, hope this community can take care of it turning it in the right way, which I dont know.-- Feroang ( talk) 03:51, 29 November 2011 (UTC)
Owen Sheers has received a very unusual honour from the Welsh Rugby Union - is the first? -- MacRusgail ( talk) 18:53, 12 December 2011 (UTC)