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Is this page really necessary? It's completely unsourced, and pretty crufty in my opinion. The categories that currently stand do enough justice, do they not? JTP ( talk • contribs) 15:30, 25 May 2018 (UTC)
Since it's finally hot and sunny around these parts, I've had less and less desire to hang around here averting disasters such as this. I just love this description of a list which was around 75K before deletion as "overly large", while encyclopedia entries exist which are four and five times that size and concerns about their size have largely fallen on deaf ears. Are you trying to claim that we should tailor our content to the sort of non-existent attention spans found these days? Even worse, this smacks of yet another attempt on the part of some editors to show that they're more interested in trying to define what's notable when merely reflecting what's notable would suffice just fine. It wouldn't be so bad if the project didn't put so much weight on news sources, whose job it is to sell headlines, not to reflect the breadth of the topic. Looking at the AFD, this is evident in spades in the examples given by Lee Vilenski. I seem to remember an AFD a while back on Red Shoes Unno, whoever that is, while I've seen no evidence whatsoever that we're attempting to acknowledge the far, far more notable Red Shoes Dugan. Likewise, Lee mentions Rhyno and Heath Slater, a flash in the pan from a few years ago from what I can tell. How about tag teams such as Harley Race and Larry Hennig, Black Gordman and Goliath or André the Giant and Dusty Rhodes? The latter made only a few appearances together on key supershows, yet still accomplished more than Rhyno and Slater except for getting mentioned on the web within the past X number of years. All the redlinks I saw at the beginning of the list are emblematic of the problem of relying so much upon news sites pushing news and current events as sources, not emblematic of non-notability. Even worse still, there are a slew of navboxen related to holders of various championships, including tag team championships, which are lacking in links. Last I checked, the purpose of a navbox was to contain links and allow for navigation between articles, hence the name "NAVIGATION box". I've seen any number of navboxen consisting primarily of non-linked entries. That suggests that they were created solely to "pretty up" articles. Those should have been considered for deletion long before this list. RadioKAOS / Talk to me, Billy / Transmissions 04:01, 5 June 2018 (UTC)
This question relates to basically every single roster page except the WWE one. Everyone but WWE have "freelancers" work their shows, heck some promotions don't actually have "contracted" wrestlers, but per appearance deals etc. What is the guideline for when a person should be on the roster page? I'm not sure when someone warrants inclusion. I will give you an example Consejo Mundial de Lucha Libre roster, right now L.A. Park, El Hijo de L.A. Park and Rey Fénix are all independent wrestlers who've made a deal to work both for CMLL and elsewhere - when should they be included in the roster list? Rey Fénix is listed even though he has actually wrestled for them yet. And if Rey Fénix works one match for CMLL in 2 months when should he be listed? Do we have any guideline for roster pages outside of the WWE one? Because "signed" is not a term that makes sense for any promotion that also have freelancers work for them. I'd love to have some sort of guidance on this. MPJ -DK 22:32, 3 June 2018 (UTC)
I have a question (well, a problem). Some users includes in the All In article Cody as Cody Rhodes. However, we all know WWE owns the Cody Rhodes name and he can't promote himself as Cody, so I revert their editions. Some sources calls him Cody Rhodes, but is a common practice in every source I read since it's his common name. Other sources, like Fightfull or the WON call him Cody. So, do you have any solution? -- HHH Pedrigree ( talk) 17:06, 23 May 2018 (UTC)
Hi. I opened some AfD discussions. All of them are WWE develoment wrestlers who had just a few matches, I don't think they are notable enough for an article, they just had a few matches in live events and NXT, but no notable storylines, feuds... Wikipedia:WikiProject Deletion sorting/Wrestling HHH Pedrigree ( talk) 18:15, 3 June 2018 (UTC)
Right now KingOfTheRing is claiming that the results section does not apply before the event because the section is titled Matches. See Talk:Money_in_the_Bank_(2018)#Point_about_match_order_according_to_WP:PW/SG... Can we please get consensus to clarify that this section applies to both? - Galatz Talk 13:58, 15 June 2018 (UTC)
So I've been giving it some thought as to what we should aim for to include in an article about professional wrestling in "Country" and I've looked at all the articles we have on it (US, UK, Puerto Rico, Australia, NZ, Israel, "Mexico", "Japan" - Canada does not count except for what not to do.) and I suggest that all article should at a minimum have the following sections:
Any other suggestions? Comments? likes or dislikes?? Other options I considered was "Television history" (hard to find consistent sources), "wrestlers from XXX known outside XXX" (which for Japan, UK, Mexico would be unwieldy and crufty) but felt like those may make sense if you have the info etc. MPJ -DK 01:21, 18 June 2018 (UTC)
Hi. There is some discussion about 205Live. Is 205Live a sub-division of RAW or is his own brand? We have some problems Here -- HHH Pedrigree ( talk) 11:20, 16 June 2018 (UTC)
Regardless, unless we have consensus to change it or you can find it mentioned somewhere that are no long apart of RAW, it's best to just leave it as is. I'm not opposed to changing itwhich is right by your opinion. It's better to not to argue IanPCP, Vjmlhds, Galatz and 32.213.92.177. All Cruiserweight BLP has received recent changes from RAW to 205 Live and removal of RAW referances today. I don't mean to create any sockpuppet as I already have 2 blocked socks and myself got blocked last year for 2 weeks(blocked 2 days before New Year). Article was protected for 3 days when arguements initiated. HHH and Mattspac cites me and my edit. IanPCP Whom I believe he might be authentic editor and accurately edit article but he also found out one culprit and starter of argumentation. Being politely, neither wwe.com has made any update nor WWE itself made such announcement. Fishhead, your opinion might works. Great work. CK ( talk) 13:11, 20 June 2018 (UTC)
The following quote is the second sentence of the lead section.
"He is also currently competing in WWE as a signed talent, where he makes sporadic appearances on a part-time basis on both the Raw and SmackDown brands."
He mentioned in an interview as recently as April which you can see here, he says he is on a per appearance "one and done" type deals when he appears in the WWE. At the 7:38 mark he says he is not contracted. I know removing or modifying it would have people up in arms. It needs to be corrected. Mr. C.C. Hey yo! I didn't do it! 08:04, 18 June 2018 (UTC)
Infact the line BEST KNOWN FOR TENURE refers to those who completely leaves WWE. if a person list himself as WWE person but retired or part timing and being a member there but competing in other promotions then the line CURRENTLY SIGNED TO WWE still to be used. CK ( talk) 11:09, 18 June 2018 (UTC)
Right now List of WWE Network events is organized by air date. But if you look at List of NWA/WCW closed-circuit events and pay-per-view events, List of ECW supercards and pay-per-view events, List of Ring of Honor pay-per-view events, etc. its all organized by taped date. I see no reason why this one should be set up differently.
Also I changed the total event count to count UK championship tournament as 1 event, just because its over 2 days it doesn't make it multiple. ROH page also counts multi-day ones as 1. - Galatz גאליץ שיחה Talk 15:23, 21 June 2018 (UTC)
This page needs to reflect that lucha libre is a term used throughout most (if not all) of Latin America in reference to a number of styles, not all of which meet the style/rules/traditions of the Mexican variant. Days ago, "Lucha_libre"_as_a_series_of_articles I proposed branching it into a "Lucha libre in..." series, which was to begin by renaming the entry for Professional wrestling in Puerto Rico (to "Lucha libre in Puerto Rico") and the current entry to "Lucha libre in Mexico". In addition, I had envisioned more entries for Argentina, Dominican Republic, Colombia, Panama, Ecuador and Chile, being somewhat familiar with the scene of these countries.
However, fellow editor Lee Vilenski proposed creating a "Professional Wrestling in..." article for Mexico and turning "Lucha Libre" into a hub with a "worldwide bearing". This seems like a sensible proposal that does not include renaming other pieces, and which could be complemented by creating similar pieces for the other countries that were previously mentioned. Before proceeding with any changes, I want feedback, and expect to collaborate with any consensus solution as long as it solves the ethnocentrism of the current entry. Old School WWC Fan ( talk) 17:06, 13 June 2018 (UTC)
If anyone wasn't aware, Vader has died. Anyone want to work getting his article ready for an In The News nom? Nikki♥ 311 21:24, 20 June 2018 (UTC)
Lee Vilenski ( talk • contribs) 07:59, 21 June 2018 (UTC)
All, there is a discussion going on at Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/Incidents#Egregious_personal_attacks_and_other_inappropriate_conduct_by_User:Nickag989 that could potentially affect all professional wrestling articles. - Galatz Talk 00:06, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
- Does that not seem like a lot though? Personally, when I signed up for an account on Wikipedia, it was due to in part, updating articles, with quite a few articles being in the pro wrestling category. I could understand maybe simply the autoconfirmed process being a good place for this, as it would limit annonymous edit wars, so at least people would be liable for edits. However, if you come to wikipedia specifically for work on Pro Wrestling; we would potentially push away help due to a prejudice that they may be a poor editor. I'm not sure many good editors would stick around for a full month to help with the project. I'm against turning away good editors. WP:ANI should be enough to deal with the childish editors. Lee Vilenski ( talk • contribs) 14:46, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
FYI this was just closed as authorize [2] - Galatz גאליץ שיחה Talk 01:26, 22 June 2018 (UTC)
So, it passed. Our general sanctions page is at Wikipedia:General sanctions/Professional wrestling. I'm not totally familiar with the process here but I think we report offenders to Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement after they've been warned, correct? LM2000 ( talk) 02:04, 22 June 2018 (UTC)
Would it maybe make sense to have a list of admins within the project (Or ones that would be willing to learn a little about the nuances of pro wrestling articles)? I feel like quite a few admins (Specifically the ones being so incredibly smug about how they'd like to get rid of the project all together) wouldn't really understand the particular issues we face. I also have issues that I know some admins, but without specifically going onto someone's userpage, it's not always the easiest to know if they do indeed have the admin rights.
It's always better to make something where potential disruptive editing, or bullying would be more instructive; so any editor could bring these charges to the correct place, without having to read tonnes of guidelines (I read the whole sanctions article, and I was still none the wiser as to what the proposal really was). Lee Vilenski ( talk • contribs) 09:12, 22 June 2018 (UTC)
justifies a feeling of rage among editors who are committed to a neutral encyclopedia- @ Cullen328: On this, we will have to agree to disagree, I understand the rage, but I don't think it's acceptable for any Wikipedian to be uncivil. But instead of lingering on something I cannot change I will instead move on and try to influence some positive changes for the pro wrestling articles so that they don't induce as much rage in the future. As the president, founder, only member and grand Poobah of The "No Drama Professional Wrestling Society" (NDPWS) I am fully onboard with more quality less drama. MPJ -DK 01:46, 25 June 2018 (UTC)
@
Cullen328: Sorry for the delay in responding, was away for the weekend. Some of my concerns with this is by the very nature, every event will focus on the events themselves. I think the biography articles themselves are the worst offenders as they should focus on the people not the kayfabe, but our IP editors love adding every little detail. Unfortunately due to this I do not follow many individuals because the sheer volume of edits would fill up my watchlist too quickly.
As for the events, lets take for example
WrestleMania 33. I previously tagged the storylines section as being too detailed, which really needs to be cut down.
WP:PW/PPVG recommends this section being no more than 1,000 words, but its currently almost 4 times thats. Any work I have put in previous articles in trying to trim these section back get reverted, so I've given up. I even brought the issue to talk and people tried telling me it shouldn't apply to WrestleMania, see
Talk:WrestleMania_34#Storylines section. Correct me if I am wrong, but I do not think you are trying to say that WrestleMania 33 or whichever year is not notable, just that there is too much kayfabe in it. Even if all the fluff garbage was removed from the article, you would still have a build up section (called storylines, which does have the disclaimer), event section, and aftermath section. By the events very nature this is part of what makes the event notable, and will therefore contain a lot of in universe information. Ronda Rousey for example made her debut this year at
WrestleMania 34 for which she got tons of main stream press, including Sports Center on ESPN, which covered the storylines she was involved in. The fact that she debuted is not kayfabe, but the stories she was involved in were. Therefore outside of just saying she debuted there is only so much you could discuss outside of the in-universe talk. Where do you draw the line? Even the reception section will have a certain in-universe feel because their review is of things that happened during the scripted matches, so their review isn't kayfabe, but what they are discussing is.
Also in terms of when to go to
WP:RPP what qualifies as enough vandalism? In the past it seems like I usually need to prove 3-4 example in a 24 hour period to qualify. When I look at
WWE Super Show-Down I see a couple over the course of a few days, would this be enough or should we wait until it gets worse? Also this event isn't taking place for a few months, would an admin lock this down until after the event airs, because the build up is normally when the vandalism occurs. -
Galatz גאליץ
שיחה Talk
21:44, 25 June 2018 (UTC)
Also there is discussion above about removing a section that is filled with CRUFTy information. Everyone seems to be in favor of it, but if we do, we all know the IPs will be reverting it like crazy because its their favorite section to update with every tiny little detail. What could we do to prevent these edit wars, since we obviously dont want to go to RPP with thousands of articles. -
Galatz גאליץ
שיחה Talk
21:51, 25 June 2018 (UTC)
Take a look at the discussion here Wikipedia talk:As of#As of CURRENTMONTH for a discussion that could impact our articles. - Galatz גאליץ שיחה Talk 17:07, 26 June 2018 (UTC)
I know we've discussed this here before, but if we could gain consensus and update the SG accordingly it would be good. If you look at Tucker Knight, Bianca Belair, or Taynara Conti, its a little ridiculous that we have 3 levels of headings to get to 2 paragraphs. We should have no subheadings under "Professional wrestling career" under there is enough to warrant it. Velveteen Dream for example should have 2 subheadings but no need for any under WWE. MOS:BODY saying the purpose of subheading is for readability, the example above, the subheadings do not increase readability. Any proposals on how we word this or any other thoughts? - Galatz גאליץ שיחה Talk 02:59, 29 June 2018 (UTC)
I don’t really see any problems with the way their moves/nicknames/themes are set up. I say keep them the way they are. Drummoe ( talk) 09:23, 29 June 2018 (UTC)
This was the primary reason I visited wrestlers' Wikipedia pages; now, it is completely gone. Why? This was valuable and useful information, all organized in an aesthetically pleasing and easy-to-read format. Can we please restore these? If the problem was with people wrestlers' entire movesets, why not just eliminate that one section? You could keep their finishing move (or if it changed throughout their career; i.e., have the Tombstone Piledriver, Last Ride, and Hell's Gate for Undertaker, but no other moves), and then eliminate everything else. Can we please do this? Wrestler pages have lost much of their utility for me now. CinnamonCinder ( talk) 15:11, 2 July 2018 (UTC)
I'm a former admin here so I thought I would chime in. I fought to close the gender gap here now I am willing to close the wresting gap here. In short I plan on protecting the regular Wikipedia users from the abuse of wrestling fanboy editors like I protected women from sexist male editors (like the Gianos of the site). Cullen is right, the abuse regular wikipedians get from wrestling fanboys is almost as bad as the abuse that all Wikipedia editors get from Giano on a daily basis. Maybe Giano is a wrestling fan?? My first act as a member of this project is to topic ban Giano and Eric Corbett from all wrestling topics, just in case the take their abuse here. Secondly, I plan on recruiting reddit wrestling fans to be at home Wikipedian in residences. I have more ideas but i am getting started. BTW WP:IAR that TonyBaloney spouts out. Kevin Gסrman — Preceding unsigned comment added by 176.37.100.124 ( talk) 04:52, 30 June 2018 (UTC)
We have a constant issue of minor NXT performers having pages created and then deleted. There are several that are border line notable that have a page. Perhaps we need to do something like New York Yankees minor league players where we can keep a mini page for these people. In the event they become more notable we can move it to and expand it. If they get released their section gets deleted, no harm done, no AfD to worry about. Any thoughts? - Galatz גאליץ שיחה Talk 15:00, 29 June 2018 (UTC)
A person is typically included in a list of people only if all the following requirements are met: The person meets the Wikipedia notability requirement.So I am not sure adding them to a list would technically get around the GNG, it may just hide them more as it'd be entries on a list not a new article that gets patrolled. MPJ -DK 21:38, 30 June 2018 (UTC)
Did you all get hacked or something? Removing a wrestler's moveset is probably the stupidest move y'all can make. What's the deal? -- Evil Yugi ( talk) 01:31, 30 June 2018 (UTC)
Shouldn’t the SmackDown Women’s, SmackDown Tag Team and NXT Women’s Championship have their own list of Champions pages by now? The Raw Women’s Championship does and it’s pretty similar lineage wise to the SmackDown Women’s. Ron234 ( talk) 21:36, 2 July 2018 (UTC)
There is almost always some repetitive vandalism, disruptive edits and un-sourced changes to the article on History of WWE by "unregistered users". I think the current version is all right and well accepted. This is a vital article as WWE is the leading wrestling promotion in the world and this covers it history very accurately. I know this is not the place to make the request, but I just hope to point out the urgency for it here and think it would be better if a senior member made the request to make the article semi protected. Thank you. Marked Man 808 ( talk) 18:12, 24 June 2018 (UTC)
The IP address
v2600:8805:d500:6820:e81d:b127:4db3:6ede once again vandalized the article, see edit history for yourselves. No wonder why wrestling articles are getting so much recent criticism if this is allowed to go on without intervention.
Marked Man 808 (
talk)
00:04, 3 July 2018 (UTC)
Requested, thanks for your response. Marked Man 808 ( talk) 03:33, 3 July 2018 (UTC)
Instead of abandoning the inclusion of wrestler moves in Wikipedia pages we should instead have a section on wrestler pages called "Wrestling persona and style" here we talk about their character as well as their finishing and signature moves. I've already seen this done well in the case of the Andrade Cien Almas page. I think this is a good way to include multiple things under a header that is easy to understand even for a non wrestling fan. Young Babymeat ( talk) 05:46, 1 July 2018 (UTC)
Hello, i came back here to demand the ending of this "In Wresting" protest from many many wikiapedia users. Best Option to bring the "In Wresting" section, because it been here for a decade. Make necessary adjustments to the "In Wresting" if needed. Thanks. Colton Meltzer ( talk) 20:41, 2 July 2018 (UTC)
Project Kys focuses on bring back "In Wresting" Section wresting pages - Working around Encyclopedia Guidelines
Best option to bring back this decade-old section, because it bring big successful contribution to the wresting pages. Colton Meltzer ( talk) 21:18, 2 July 2018 (UTC)
@ NotTheFakeJTP: @ HHH Pedrigree: 10 years and must bring back this wresting moves/entrance music section. The kys project will focuses on bring back this section with some changes. No more mini consensus and to end disruptive edits. Rollback this change is a must. Colton Meltzer ( talk) 22:19, 3 July 2018 (UTC)
As above, a few people have mentioned the wider degree of kayfabe being written as fact in pro wrestling articles. Whilst we can all see an article, and find this information, removing kayfabe/rewording can be a little bit difficult. Could we potentially create a tag for this on articles, and then have these articles appear on a hidden category (Similar to Category: Video game cleanup or Category:Video game articles needing infoboxes), and have these appear on our pages somewhere. Perhaps Category: Pro Wrestling articles written in Kayfabe, or similar.
I'd be willing to go through these categories as I do with the other examples for the Video Games WikiProject. Lee Vilenski ( talk • contribs) 07:23, 26 June 2018 (UTC)
This section may contain material discouraged by the
manual of style for professional wrestling. (June 2018) |
- I've created something for a documentation User:Lee Vilenski/Kayfabe/doc, which could do with some work. Lee Vilenski ( talk • contribs) 07:57, 27 June 2018 (UTC)
The discussion and removal of wrestler's moves from their wikipedia pages not only is hasty, but also disastrous. The discussion was closed very quickly with relatively few editors offering their opinion on a DECADE LONG PRECEDENT, that has been in place for a VERY long time. It makes absolutely no sense to remove it. To make such a big change affecting virtually every wrestling/wrestler article on Wikipedia seems egregious and baffling to me. A majority of wrestling fans primarily go on a wrestler's page to look at a person's moveset/moves, and judging by the backlash of other editors on this talk page, it confirms my assertions. Also, with the removal of such a significant section of a wrestler's article, there has to be a solution to the problem. Instead, there has been NO solution offered by any editor who contributed to the removal of the moves section on wrestler's pages, simply removal of the content. VietPride10 ( talk) 04:08, 3 July 2018 (UTC)
- Difficult to police/source. How is this bulleted list any worse than having an overview of the character, and their most important features, written as prose? Lee Vilenski ( talk • contribs) 08:41, 4 July 2018 (UTC)
To give my two cents, I believe that while some information (for example, very extensive signature move lists) can be unnecessary and often uncited) things like finishing maneuvers for wrestlers would not fall under FANCRUFT as they provide additional context for a wrestler as it is often an integral part of the character, and is in turn encyclopedic knowledge. I think this has the potential of alienating the casual user and messing with a decade-long precedent which I am well-aware is not a legitimate reason for re-establishment, but I do think deserves some thought in the decision-making process. I appreciate the prose suggestion but I feel it may be too long and unneeded for smaller wrestlers and too difficult to establish on a wide-spread basis, and is also insufficient at providing what the previous "In Wrestling" section did as a reference point for information about a wrestler. My solution: I personally believe that, as suggested at some point, a section titled 'Professional Wrestling Information' with "signature" maneuvers (i.e., primary moves that the wrestler uses as one to finish a match) that are named as well as nicknames that have been used for the wrestler to be placed under that heading. I understand that this is continuing to discuss an issue that likely won't get changed, but I do believe that, a, the prose method suggested is clunky and insufficient to serve as an efficient reference point for users, b, information such as "signature" moves and nicknames is encyclopedic, and, c, (perhaps most importantly for some) can be citing effectively. A great example of this is Zack Sabre Jr. who has citations to events where moves were given names on commentary as well as links to his Twitter page where he has given moves names. This is information that I would consider important to a performer's character and encyclopedic in nature. To finally conclude, I am sure many users are sick of this discussion, but I truly believe that there is some noteworthy information within the deleted section and I do hope that I have brought up some fair points for consideration. NotAdamKovic ( talk) 04:30, 6 July 2018 (UTC)
During the various discussions on General Sanctions for professional wrestling the topic of a "wrestling notability criteria" was brought up, sort of our version of Wikipedia:Notability (sports). A sort of guideline for when it would be appropriate to create a wrestling related article - be it a biography of a wrestler, a tag team or stable article, a stand-alone show or championship article. Would it help deal with crufty, fanish articles or articles on a team that's teamed up randomly twice and instantly has an article created under 4 different names? This would be a supplement to the General Notability Guideline and could never lessen what is outlined in the GNG. it would help cut down on articles written for every single person signed to a development contract but hasn't done anything yet, championship articles for a promotion where the promotion is not notable etc. Would it help to define one? If people are in favor I'd be happy to help form a consensus for various types of articles. MPJ -DK 01:40, 25 June 2018 (UTC)
the sport specific criteria set forth belowor
this page are intended to reflect the fact that sports figures. Any reason why ECW and ROH were removed? I would also say to use the full names, like World Championship Wrestling instead of WCW. I will go through it in more detail later. - Galatz גאליץ שיחה Talk 19:06, 26 June 2018 (UTC)
The above posted draft page is a proposal for discussion, anything and everything on the page is open for discussion and input MPJ -DK 20:22, 26 June 2018 (UTC)
If it’s not broken, don’t fix it. Getting rid of the moves sub-heading was unnecessary and inconvenient and having it written in prose is a terrible idea, the bullet points are much more concise. SirJohnChegg ( talk) 10:05, 1 July 2018 (UTC)
For example, Chris Jericho briefly used the “Meltdown” as a finisher from 2001-2002, which not a lot of fans know, briefly mentioning it as a notable part of his moveset is far more convienient than it being lost in a Persona page. To be honest, all of the editors are just agreeing amongst themselves and not listening to the average user, most of whom are against this change. — Preceding unsigned comment added by SirJohnChegg ( talk • contribs) 06:20, 4 July 2018 (UTC)
You’re being needlessly stubborn about this useful section and you’re shutting down every opposing argument to keep what should have never been removed. Having a discussion with people who hold the same opinions as you and then declaring it as the general consensus, even though the majority of users are against it, doesn’t help anyone. This persona sub heading is a terrible idea and all moves and entrance themes will be lost within a wall of text. — Preceding unsigned comment added by SirJohnChegg ( talk • contribs) 10:28, 4 July 2018 (UTC)
So seeing as I missed the entire discussion because of my inactivity, I wanna ask for some clarification. I see that the project has decided to remove the "In wrestling" section. So what is to come of the wrestler themes on these articles? I know it's an argument to avoid, but it was pretty useful information that's not really seen elsewhere on the internet. (And not that it matters at this point, but I would have opposed the section's removal. But I digress.) True CRaysball | #RaysUp 14:09, 7 July 2018 (UTC)
Now that the entrance musics and signature moves have been removed and are being worked into the prose, I took a look at some of the other articles related to wrestling. One thing that especially caught my eye was the information of all eliminations in Royal Rumbles and Survivor Series matches, for example in here. It includes a list of all eliminations, elimination orders, the amount of elimination, brands and the time they lasted in the match. In Survivor Series matches the move used to eliminate the wrestler is also listed, without any sources.
Isn't all this equally trivial information that doesn't need to be there? Results -section obviously should be included in PPV articles, and it has good sources, but the Entrances and Eliminations section is just one huge table of pointless information without any sources. Why does a non-fan reading the article need it? All the actually relevant events of those matches are already mentioned in the prose in Event section. Cowposer ( talk) 03:31, 9 July 2018 (UTC)
Sourcing's no problem, but this prestigious guest list has been deemed unsuitably trivial. The prose still says HBK was in tight, and a photo suggests Hornswoggle came close, but that doesn't seem like much of a club. Maybe it's for the best, maybe it isn't, I don't know what I think anymore. But the issue shouldn't get lost in the shuffle of everything else burning down around us lately. InedibleHulk (talk) 05:03, 9 July 2018 (UTC)
Removing of movesets makes no logical sense. While their signature moves aren't their entire story, the moves do represent a part of their gimmicks and persona. I'm not sure why a small group of individuals felt they should unilaterally make such a decision, then claim a 'consensus.'
Was their really any complaints regarding the section? Did the group of 'admins' making this decision consider how the decision would hurt new fans who want to learn more? Why wasn't something decided on to reference the moves before deleting the section from every Wikipedia profile?
Wrestling journalists, fans, and those who are simply curious used the sections as a reminder or to learn new information about a given wrestler or tag team. They should be replaced immediately as the decision wasn't well thoughout, goes against the purpose of Wikipedia (to inform), and does nothing to help the function nor purpose of wrestlers pages. SmoothWrestling ( talk) 06:21, 8 July 2018 (UTC)
Indeed, the above is fine. Although, do we need to know the thousands of people Slick managed? is it particularly notable that a manager once managed Owen Hart? Not everything is notable. If there is a list of a lot of people someone has managed, that's fine to be in a consise way, but I'd also expect some information about the character, and some prose to explain the list. I think sometimes, people want to copy the "Filmography" section to these types of articles, simply because they like lists. Credits and moves are two seperate things. Lee Vilenski ( talk • contribs) 09:54, 9 July 2018 (UTC)
I notice that in Beth Phoenix's infobox the spouse is listed as Edge rather than Adam Copeland. The wrestling infobox is split into two sections real life and storyline. Since the spouse is real life rather than storyline would it make more sense to have Adam Copeland as the spouse in the article about Beth Phoenix? Another point I would like to make is that wrestlers regularly change their ring name so using the real name would create more stability. This affects loads of articles. I checked the style guide but there is no clear guidelines about the spouse. Mobile mundo ( talk) 13:41, 9 July 2018 (UTC)
Please see WP:VPP#Should the "In wrestling" section be removed from professional wrestling articles?. Pre fall 14:57, 10 July 2018 (UTC)
Currently in the C&A section there are two separate sections for anyone who had something on the main roster vs. NXT. Is there a reason for this? We don't break out any other brand, so why this one? The SG says promotions are listed alphabetically, and NXT is not a promotion. - Galatz גאליץ שיחה Talk 02:39, 29 June 2018 (UTC)
Recently, the Project came to consensus to remove the Professional Wrestling Highlights section of articles. However, there was one part of it that I deemed noteworthy. There was the Wrestlers Trained section of that section, when applicable. How should we still note wrestlers the wrestler trained on articles? DrewieStewie of RaiderNation 02:50, 19 July 2018 (UTC)
The "Money in the Bank" theme song seems to be the official theme song for all the PPVs, since 2011, since they no longer list them per year on iTunes and they seem to be calling it just Money in the Bank (Official Theme Song). The Money in the Bank (2018) article should be updated to reflect that since it was used as the theme for the PPV and can be verified via WWE Network. Ron234 ( talk) 18:03, 14 July 2018 (UTC)
- sadly, this is simply speculation. We go on what sources say on Wikipedia. Lee Vilenski ( talk • contribs) 14:55, 19 July 2018 (UTC)
TakeOver should be removed from the List of WWE network events' themed wwe network events sub heading. They are essentially non gimmick nxt events comparable to main roster events like payback or backlash. The exception being TakeOver: WarGames which should be mentioned. Ron234 ( talk) 14:05, 19 July 2018 (UTC)
I posted some time ago to inform that some WrestleMania posters are incorrect but no action was taken. The posters for WM V, X8 and especially 2000 are not the ones used by WWE in their WrestleMania poster article on wwe.com. I believe that they should be updated. Ron234 ( talk) 11:23, 20 July 2018 (UTC)
Hi. According to the SG, we include in the titles the number of defences if the promotion keeps track of them. I had an idea. A number is kind of plain, what do you think about including the name of the rivals? Maybe something hidden, like the infoboxes. Okada, 11 defenses. Click and the list of the challengers appears. What do you think? -- HHH Pedrigree ( talk) 20:09, 22 July 2018 (UTC)
Hello, I'm here to voice my anger at the recent vandalism done to individual wrestler pages. For years, I've used Wikipedia whenever I need to find out important information on an individual wrestler. Whether that be their entrance music history, signature and finishing moves, nicknames, managers, tag team partners, etc. However recently, all that important information has been deleted, in a truly baffling decision.
The whole point of Wikipedia is to provide information. Removing information goes against the whole point of Wikipedia's existence. In the past if I heard entrance music, wanted to listen to a clean version, and didn't know what it was called, I'd look up that wrestler's Wikipedia page, see the track's name, and then search for it. Now, I can't do that anymore. If I wanted to update a superstar's moveset on the recent 2K game, but didn't know the technical name for a move and the move is only listed under it's technical name in the game, I'd look that wrestler's finisher on their Wikipedia page. I can't do that anymore. If I wanted to know a wrestler's nickname history so I could write it into a promo, I'd look up their Wikipedia page. I can't do that anymore. If I wanted to know the entrance music history of a wrestler, I'd look up their Wikipedia page. I can't do that anymore. The vast majority of times that I've used Wikipedia for wrestling information, it's been to look up information on the "In Wrestling" section.
The point is, a small group of people have decided to limit other readers, and I cannot understand how this is allowed. It's clear that the users removing information are not wrestling fans, because if they were then they'd know how vital this information is to wrestling fans. And considering that the vast majority of readers looking up wrestling pages are wrestling fans, it makes no sense to try to drive them away from a previously useful source of information. Come on, these are wrestling pages. You need important wrestling information on there.
At current time, there is no adequate alternative. There is a pro wrestling wiki, but it's clunky, cluttered, and it's presentation is nowhere near as clean as Wikipedia. Wikipedia used to be the perfect source, but now that's been taken away.
Until the people editing these pages see sense, Wikipedia is now utterly useless to me when it comes to needing wrestling information. So well done, congratulate yourselves on driving frequent users (aka the people these articles should be targeted to) away. There is clearly a large amount of people upset by this change, much greater than the "majority" who made this decision. So I can only hope that this decision will be reversed, and important information restored.
- A very disgruntled reader 80.2.40.117 ( talk) 00:12, 9 July 2018 (UTC)
- The issue is that most of this information, even if we sourced is irrelevent to the subject. The link above has 16 wrestlers that he's trained. Could this seriously not be written as prose? "After leaving the WWF, he began training wrestlers at his Wild Samoan Training Facility, along with Sika. Afa Anoa'i is a successful trainer, and is credited for training wrestler's such as Batista, Havok and Roman Reigns. Having a list afterwards, or a category for Category:Wrestler's trained by Afa Anoa'i would do the trick. Having things written in prose naturally pushes people from adding a source that denotes every move the wrestler does, and it looks better. Noting that he uses a headbutt as a signature move is a bit irrelevent, but if we could mention why this is important - Most Samoans use headbutts, that would be beneficial information. Lee Vilenski ( talk • contribs) 08:03, 10 July 2018 (UTC)
Hey guys: you can easily verify a wrestler's move set by watching their wrestling matches. The source is the wrestling matches.
Ditto for themes, and much the other "unverifiable" information that you cited.
If you don't understand this extremely simple concept, you shouldn't be editing the wrestling section.
Put the lists back.
Neighbormania ( talk) 18:13, 24 July 2018 (UTC)
you shouldn't be editing the wrestling sectionso can we take the fact that you have not edited the wrestling section yourself as some sort of admission? Btw. Belligerence gets you nowhere. MPJ -DK 19:30, 24 July 2018 (UTC)
See Talk:WWE tournaments#Split proposal.-- JohnBlackburne words deeds 13:09, 25 July 2018 (UTC)
Why does this need to be an article? There is no other wrestler with such an article. I am not seeing the need for it. Mr. C.C. Hey yo! I didn't do it!
The project may wish to know that as I type this, User:Moe Epsilon ( | talk | history | links | watch | logs) is moving a slew of articles from "List of (professional wrestling promotion) alumni" to "List of former (professional wrestling promotion) personnel" and adjusting links accordingly. RadioKAOS / Talk to me, Billy / Transmissions 22:38, 25 July 2018 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
There's been an ongoing AfD for The B-Team (professional wrestling). Please participate if you can. Thanks. Sekyaw (talk) 04:36, 24 July 2018 (UTC)
I have started a discussion at Talk:WWE tournaments#Requested move 27 July 2018 that everyone might be interested in. - Galatz גאליץ שיחה Talk 13:17, 27 July 2018 (UTC)
These articles are very problematic and terribly written (" And today when the Bholu Brothers have long since departed from this world, we cannot talk about the Pakistani wrestling without recalling these Wrestling Greats, who spent their lives for wrestling" is just one of the fawning sentences). First of all the initial version of Bholu Brothers is a copy and paste from here, and despite some cleanup attempts since the article is still in an embarrassing state. The only reason I have not tagged it as a copyright violation is because of this source currently being used in the article. While the source is actually another copy of the original article and therefore a circular reference and of no use whatsoever, it does link the article's author Farid Azam with the username faridzenger1 who is presumably Faridzenger ( talk · contribs) that created the article here.
There are some sources such as this which appear reliable, but some quick investigations proves them to be utterly worthless. The Bholu Pahalwan and Bholu Brothers both contain information about a supposed 1967 match.
The "Henry Perry" text was originally added to the Bholu Pahalwan article in March 2007 by Faridzenger, but he was renamed to "Henri Pierlot (Les Thornton)" in the original version of the Bholu Brothers article in September 20009. I can find no record of a wrestler called Henry Perry ( Les Thornton of course does exist), and no record of a show at Empire Pool (now known as Wembley Arena) in 1967, and there would be some record of a show of that size.
Now back to the tribune.com.pk article, this states "In 1967, he offered 5,000 British pounds to anyone in the world who could beat him and that same year won the World Heavyweight Title fight against Anglo-French heavyweight champion Henry Perry in London". Henry Perry doesn't appear in the oocities article (where he's Henri Pierlot) or anywhere else I looked, apart from our article on Bholu Pahalwan. So if we were to use that as a source we're back to circular referencing, since it's clear they got that information, and presumably everything else, from our article.
All these articles were created by Faridzenger who is apparently also the author of the oocities article, this creates clear problems with referencing. Due to information of unknown accuracy from our existing articles contaminating what might have been reliable sources I do not believe there are any reliable sources from which these articles can be rewritten. Since WP:AFD is not for cleanup I would prefer to gain some consensus as to what course of action should be taken. I can see two possible solutions.
Thoughts from anyone else? 2A02:C7D:3CAF:D900:B41C:B90D:756E:CBEC ( talk) 11:10, 27 July 2018 (UTC)
There are currently two sources on Bholu Brothers.
There are currently three sources on Bholu Pahalwan.
There are currently two sources on Aslam Pahalwan.
2A02:C7D:3CAF:D900:B41C:B90D:756E:CBEC ( talk) 11:55, 27 July 2018 (UTC)
There is a discussion here brought by 2.28.124.67, about how to describe the difference between actually winning a championship in sports vs professional wrestling. Grapple X in a good faith effort to get an article promoted to Featured List added the term "booked to win" for several articles.
This wording choice is problematic to me for several reasons. Firstly its WP:OR because we never know if things were changed at the last minutes without a WP:RS telling us that it was the plan all along. Secondly, to me, it implies they were booked to win it, but plans changed. For example if you read here [15] you will see the old method it appears it did not go as planned, while the second one it clear that it did. In that same example the same "was booked to" term was also used to describe a request to change plans, it cannot mean something that did and something that did not happen, but in the same section. A another example [16] implied that there was never a booked plan to have anyone else win it more than once, but how do we know what plans were, someone could have been booked to but plans changed.
Therefore, perhaps the correct answer is to include a line in all championship articles, something along the line of what we have for events. An example would be:
The championship's holder is a result of scripted storylines and had results typically predetermined by (promotion). [1]
Thoughts? - Galatz גאליץ שיחה Talk 16:17, 24 July 2018 (UTC)
References
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Archive 95 | ← | Archive 100 | Archive 101 | Archive 102 | Archive 103 | Archive 104 | Archive 105 |
Is this page really necessary? It's completely unsourced, and pretty crufty in my opinion. The categories that currently stand do enough justice, do they not? JTP ( talk • contribs) 15:30, 25 May 2018 (UTC)
Since it's finally hot and sunny around these parts, I've had less and less desire to hang around here averting disasters such as this. I just love this description of a list which was around 75K before deletion as "overly large", while encyclopedia entries exist which are four and five times that size and concerns about their size have largely fallen on deaf ears. Are you trying to claim that we should tailor our content to the sort of non-existent attention spans found these days? Even worse, this smacks of yet another attempt on the part of some editors to show that they're more interested in trying to define what's notable when merely reflecting what's notable would suffice just fine. It wouldn't be so bad if the project didn't put so much weight on news sources, whose job it is to sell headlines, not to reflect the breadth of the topic. Looking at the AFD, this is evident in spades in the examples given by Lee Vilenski. I seem to remember an AFD a while back on Red Shoes Unno, whoever that is, while I've seen no evidence whatsoever that we're attempting to acknowledge the far, far more notable Red Shoes Dugan. Likewise, Lee mentions Rhyno and Heath Slater, a flash in the pan from a few years ago from what I can tell. How about tag teams such as Harley Race and Larry Hennig, Black Gordman and Goliath or André the Giant and Dusty Rhodes? The latter made only a few appearances together on key supershows, yet still accomplished more than Rhyno and Slater except for getting mentioned on the web within the past X number of years. All the redlinks I saw at the beginning of the list are emblematic of the problem of relying so much upon news sites pushing news and current events as sources, not emblematic of non-notability. Even worse still, there are a slew of navboxen related to holders of various championships, including tag team championships, which are lacking in links. Last I checked, the purpose of a navbox was to contain links and allow for navigation between articles, hence the name "NAVIGATION box". I've seen any number of navboxen consisting primarily of non-linked entries. That suggests that they were created solely to "pretty up" articles. Those should have been considered for deletion long before this list. RadioKAOS / Talk to me, Billy / Transmissions 04:01, 5 June 2018 (UTC)
This question relates to basically every single roster page except the WWE one. Everyone but WWE have "freelancers" work their shows, heck some promotions don't actually have "contracted" wrestlers, but per appearance deals etc. What is the guideline for when a person should be on the roster page? I'm not sure when someone warrants inclusion. I will give you an example Consejo Mundial de Lucha Libre roster, right now L.A. Park, El Hijo de L.A. Park and Rey Fénix are all independent wrestlers who've made a deal to work both for CMLL and elsewhere - when should they be included in the roster list? Rey Fénix is listed even though he has actually wrestled for them yet. And if Rey Fénix works one match for CMLL in 2 months when should he be listed? Do we have any guideline for roster pages outside of the WWE one? Because "signed" is not a term that makes sense for any promotion that also have freelancers work for them. I'd love to have some sort of guidance on this. MPJ -DK 22:32, 3 June 2018 (UTC)
I have a question (well, a problem). Some users includes in the All In article Cody as Cody Rhodes. However, we all know WWE owns the Cody Rhodes name and he can't promote himself as Cody, so I revert their editions. Some sources calls him Cody Rhodes, but is a common practice in every source I read since it's his common name. Other sources, like Fightfull or the WON call him Cody. So, do you have any solution? -- HHH Pedrigree ( talk) 17:06, 23 May 2018 (UTC)
Hi. I opened some AfD discussions. All of them are WWE develoment wrestlers who had just a few matches, I don't think they are notable enough for an article, they just had a few matches in live events and NXT, but no notable storylines, feuds... Wikipedia:WikiProject Deletion sorting/Wrestling HHH Pedrigree ( talk) 18:15, 3 June 2018 (UTC)
Right now KingOfTheRing is claiming that the results section does not apply before the event because the section is titled Matches. See Talk:Money_in_the_Bank_(2018)#Point_about_match_order_according_to_WP:PW/SG... Can we please get consensus to clarify that this section applies to both? - Galatz Talk 13:58, 15 June 2018 (UTC)
So I've been giving it some thought as to what we should aim for to include in an article about professional wrestling in "Country" and I've looked at all the articles we have on it (US, UK, Puerto Rico, Australia, NZ, Israel, "Mexico", "Japan" - Canada does not count except for what not to do.) and I suggest that all article should at a minimum have the following sections:
Any other suggestions? Comments? likes or dislikes?? Other options I considered was "Television history" (hard to find consistent sources), "wrestlers from XXX known outside XXX" (which for Japan, UK, Mexico would be unwieldy and crufty) but felt like those may make sense if you have the info etc. MPJ -DK 01:21, 18 June 2018 (UTC)
Hi. There is some discussion about 205Live. Is 205Live a sub-division of RAW or is his own brand? We have some problems Here -- HHH Pedrigree ( talk) 11:20, 16 June 2018 (UTC)
Regardless, unless we have consensus to change it or you can find it mentioned somewhere that are no long apart of RAW, it's best to just leave it as is. I'm not opposed to changing itwhich is right by your opinion. It's better to not to argue IanPCP, Vjmlhds, Galatz and 32.213.92.177. All Cruiserweight BLP has received recent changes from RAW to 205 Live and removal of RAW referances today. I don't mean to create any sockpuppet as I already have 2 blocked socks and myself got blocked last year for 2 weeks(blocked 2 days before New Year). Article was protected for 3 days when arguements initiated. HHH and Mattspac cites me and my edit. IanPCP Whom I believe he might be authentic editor and accurately edit article but he also found out one culprit and starter of argumentation. Being politely, neither wwe.com has made any update nor WWE itself made such announcement. Fishhead, your opinion might works. Great work. CK ( talk) 13:11, 20 June 2018 (UTC)
The following quote is the second sentence of the lead section.
"He is also currently competing in WWE as a signed talent, where he makes sporadic appearances on a part-time basis on both the Raw and SmackDown brands."
He mentioned in an interview as recently as April which you can see here, he says he is on a per appearance "one and done" type deals when he appears in the WWE. At the 7:38 mark he says he is not contracted. I know removing or modifying it would have people up in arms. It needs to be corrected. Mr. C.C. Hey yo! I didn't do it! 08:04, 18 June 2018 (UTC)
Infact the line BEST KNOWN FOR TENURE refers to those who completely leaves WWE. if a person list himself as WWE person but retired or part timing and being a member there but competing in other promotions then the line CURRENTLY SIGNED TO WWE still to be used. CK ( talk) 11:09, 18 June 2018 (UTC)
Right now List of WWE Network events is organized by air date. But if you look at List of NWA/WCW closed-circuit events and pay-per-view events, List of ECW supercards and pay-per-view events, List of Ring of Honor pay-per-view events, etc. its all organized by taped date. I see no reason why this one should be set up differently.
Also I changed the total event count to count UK championship tournament as 1 event, just because its over 2 days it doesn't make it multiple. ROH page also counts multi-day ones as 1. - Galatz גאליץ שיחה Talk 15:23, 21 June 2018 (UTC)
This page needs to reflect that lucha libre is a term used throughout most (if not all) of Latin America in reference to a number of styles, not all of which meet the style/rules/traditions of the Mexican variant. Days ago, "Lucha_libre"_as_a_series_of_articles I proposed branching it into a "Lucha libre in..." series, which was to begin by renaming the entry for Professional wrestling in Puerto Rico (to "Lucha libre in Puerto Rico") and the current entry to "Lucha libre in Mexico". In addition, I had envisioned more entries for Argentina, Dominican Republic, Colombia, Panama, Ecuador and Chile, being somewhat familiar with the scene of these countries.
However, fellow editor Lee Vilenski proposed creating a "Professional Wrestling in..." article for Mexico and turning "Lucha Libre" into a hub with a "worldwide bearing". This seems like a sensible proposal that does not include renaming other pieces, and which could be complemented by creating similar pieces for the other countries that were previously mentioned. Before proceeding with any changes, I want feedback, and expect to collaborate with any consensus solution as long as it solves the ethnocentrism of the current entry. Old School WWC Fan ( talk) 17:06, 13 June 2018 (UTC)
If anyone wasn't aware, Vader has died. Anyone want to work getting his article ready for an In The News nom? Nikki♥ 311 21:24, 20 June 2018 (UTC)
Lee Vilenski ( talk • contribs) 07:59, 21 June 2018 (UTC)
All, there is a discussion going on at Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/Incidents#Egregious_personal_attacks_and_other_inappropriate_conduct_by_User:Nickag989 that could potentially affect all professional wrestling articles. - Galatz Talk 00:06, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
- Does that not seem like a lot though? Personally, when I signed up for an account on Wikipedia, it was due to in part, updating articles, with quite a few articles being in the pro wrestling category. I could understand maybe simply the autoconfirmed process being a good place for this, as it would limit annonymous edit wars, so at least people would be liable for edits. However, if you come to wikipedia specifically for work on Pro Wrestling; we would potentially push away help due to a prejudice that they may be a poor editor. I'm not sure many good editors would stick around for a full month to help with the project. I'm against turning away good editors. WP:ANI should be enough to deal with the childish editors. Lee Vilenski ( talk • contribs) 14:46, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
FYI this was just closed as authorize [2] - Galatz גאליץ שיחה Talk 01:26, 22 June 2018 (UTC)
So, it passed. Our general sanctions page is at Wikipedia:General sanctions/Professional wrestling. I'm not totally familiar with the process here but I think we report offenders to Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement after they've been warned, correct? LM2000 ( talk) 02:04, 22 June 2018 (UTC)
Would it maybe make sense to have a list of admins within the project (Or ones that would be willing to learn a little about the nuances of pro wrestling articles)? I feel like quite a few admins (Specifically the ones being so incredibly smug about how they'd like to get rid of the project all together) wouldn't really understand the particular issues we face. I also have issues that I know some admins, but without specifically going onto someone's userpage, it's not always the easiest to know if they do indeed have the admin rights.
It's always better to make something where potential disruptive editing, or bullying would be more instructive; so any editor could bring these charges to the correct place, without having to read tonnes of guidelines (I read the whole sanctions article, and I was still none the wiser as to what the proposal really was). Lee Vilenski ( talk • contribs) 09:12, 22 June 2018 (UTC)
justifies a feeling of rage among editors who are committed to a neutral encyclopedia- @ Cullen328: On this, we will have to agree to disagree, I understand the rage, but I don't think it's acceptable for any Wikipedian to be uncivil. But instead of lingering on something I cannot change I will instead move on and try to influence some positive changes for the pro wrestling articles so that they don't induce as much rage in the future. As the president, founder, only member and grand Poobah of The "No Drama Professional Wrestling Society" (NDPWS) I am fully onboard with more quality less drama. MPJ -DK 01:46, 25 June 2018 (UTC)
@
Cullen328: Sorry for the delay in responding, was away for the weekend. Some of my concerns with this is by the very nature, every event will focus on the events themselves. I think the biography articles themselves are the worst offenders as they should focus on the people not the kayfabe, but our IP editors love adding every little detail. Unfortunately due to this I do not follow many individuals because the sheer volume of edits would fill up my watchlist too quickly.
As for the events, lets take for example
WrestleMania 33. I previously tagged the storylines section as being too detailed, which really needs to be cut down.
WP:PW/PPVG recommends this section being no more than 1,000 words, but its currently almost 4 times thats. Any work I have put in previous articles in trying to trim these section back get reverted, so I've given up. I even brought the issue to talk and people tried telling me it shouldn't apply to WrestleMania, see
Talk:WrestleMania_34#Storylines section. Correct me if I am wrong, but I do not think you are trying to say that WrestleMania 33 or whichever year is not notable, just that there is too much kayfabe in it. Even if all the fluff garbage was removed from the article, you would still have a build up section (called storylines, which does have the disclaimer), event section, and aftermath section. By the events very nature this is part of what makes the event notable, and will therefore contain a lot of in universe information. Ronda Rousey for example made her debut this year at
WrestleMania 34 for which she got tons of main stream press, including Sports Center on ESPN, which covered the storylines she was involved in. The fact that she debuted is not kayfabe, but the stories she was involved in were. Therefore outside of just saying she debuted there is only so much you could discuss outside of the in-universe talk. Where do you draw the line? Even the reception section will have a certain in-universe feel because their review is of things that happened during the scripted matches, so their review isn't kayfabe, but what they are discussing is.
Also in terms of when to go to
WP:RPP what qualifies as enough vandalism? In the past it seems like I usually need to prove 3-4 example in a 24 hour period to qualify. When I look at
WWE Super Show-Down I see a couple over the course of a few days, would this be enough or should we wait until it gets worse? Also this event isn't taking place for a few months, would an admin lock this down until after the event airs, because the build up is normally when the vandalism occurs. -
Galatz גאליץ
שיחה Talk
21:44, 25 June 2018 (UTC)
Also there is discussion above about removing a section that is filled with CRUFTy information. Everyone seems to be in favor of it, but if we do, we all know the IPs will be reverting it like crazy because its their favorite section to update with every tiny little detail. What could we do to prevent these edit wars, since we obviously dont want to go to RPP with thousands of articles. -
Galatz גאליץ
שיחה Talk
21:51, 25 June 2018 (UTC)
Take a look at the discussion here Wikipedia talk:As of#As of CURRENTMONTH for a discussion that could impact our articles. - Galatz גאליץ שיחה Talk 17:07, 26 June 2018 (UTC)
I know we've discussed this here before, but if we could gain consensus and update the SG accordingly it would be good. If you look at Tucker Knight, Bianca Belair, or Taynara Conti, its a little ridiculous that we have 3 levels of headings to get to 2 paragraphs. We should have no subheadings under "Professional wrestling career" under there is enough to warrant it. Velveteen Dream for example should have 2 subheadings but no need for any under WWE. MOS:BODY saying the purpose of subheading is for readability, the example above, the subheadings do not increase readability. Any proposals on how we word this or any other thoughts? - Galatz גאליץ שיחה Talk 02:59, 29 June 2018 (UTC)
I don’t really see any problems with the way their moves/nicknames/themes are set up. I say keep them the way they are. Drummoe ( talk) 09:23, 29 June 2018 (UTC)
This was the primary reason I visited wrestlers' Wikipedia pages; now, it is completely gone. Why? This was valuable and useful information, all organized in an aesthetically pleasing and easy-to-read format. Can we please restore these? If the problem was with people wrestlers' entire movesets, why not just eliminate that one section? You could keep their finishing move (or if it changed throughout their career; i.e., have the Tombstone Piledriver, Last Ride, and Hell's Gate for Undertaker, but no other moves), and then eliminate everything else. Can we please do this? Wrestler pages have lost much of their utility for me now. CinnamonCinder ( talk) 15:11, 2 July 2018 (UTC)
I'm a former admin here so I thought I would chime in. I fought to close the gender gap here now I am willing to close the wresting gap here. In short I plan on protecting the regular Wikipedia users from the abuse of wrestling fanboy editors like I protected women from sexist male editors (like the Gianos of the site). Cullen is right, the abuse regular wikipedians get from wrestling fanboys is almost as bad as the abuse that all Wikipedia editors get from Giano on a daily basis. Maybe Giano is a wrestling fan?? My first act as a member of this project is to topic ban Giano and Eric Corbett from all wrestling topics, just in case the take their abuse here. Secondly, I plan on recruiting reddit wrestling fans to be at home Wikipedian in residences. I have more ideas but i am getting started. BTW WP:IAR that TonyBaloney spouts out. Kevin Gסrman — Preceding unsigned comment added by 176.37.100.124 ( talk) 04:52, 30 June 2018 (UTC)
We have a constant issue of minor NXT performers having pages created and then deleted. There are several that are border line notable that have a page. Perhaps we need to do something like New York Yankees minor league players where we can keep a mini page for these people. In the event they become more notable we can move it to and expand it. If they get released their section gets deleted, no harm done, no AfD to worry about. Any thoughts? - Galatz גאליץ שיחה Talk 15:00, 29 June 2018 (UTC)
A person is typically included in a list of people only if all the following requirements are met: The person meets the Wikipedia notability requirement.So I am not sure adding them to a list would technically get around the GNG, it may just hide them more as it'd be entries on a list not a new article that gets patrolled. MPJ -DK 21:38, 30 June 2018 (UTC)
Did you all get hacked or something? Removing a wrestler's moveset is probably the stupidest move y'all can make. What's the deal? -- Evil Yugi ( talk) 01:31, 30 June 2018 (UTC)
Shouldn’t the SmackDown Women’s, SmackDown Tag Team and NXT Women’s Championship have their own list of Champions pages by now? The Raw Women’s Championship does and it’s pretty similar lineage wise to the SmackDown Women’s. Ron234 ( talk) 21:36, 2 July 2018 (UTC)
There is almost always some repetitive vandalism, disruptive edits and un-sourced changes to the article on History of WWE by "unregistered users". I think the current version is all right and well accepted. This is a vital article as WWE is the leading wrestling promotion in the world and this covers it history very accurately. I know this is not the place to make the request, but I just hope to point out the urgency for it here and think it would be better if a senior member made the request to make the article semi protected. Thank you. Marked Man 808 ( talk) 18:12, 24 June 2018 (UTC)
The IP address
v2600:8805:d500:6820:e81d:b127:4db3:6ede once again vandalized the article, see edit history for yourselves. No wonder why wrestling articles are getting so much recent criticism if this is allowed to go on without intervention.
Marked Man 808 (
talk)
00:04, 3 July 2018 (UTC)
Requested, thanks for your response. Marked Man 808 ( talk) 03:33, 3 July 2018 (UTC)
Instead of abandoning the inclusion of wrestler moves in Wikipedia pages we should instead have a section on wrestler pages called "Wrestling persona and style" here we talk about their character as well as their finishing and signature moves. I've already seen this done well in the case of the Andrade Cien Almas page. I think this is a good way to include multiple things under a header that is easy to understand even for a non wrestling fan. Young Babymeat ( talk) 05:46, 1 July 2018 (UTC)
Hello, i came back here to demand the ending of this "In Wresting" protest from many many wikiapedia users. Best Option to bring the "In Wresting" section, because it been here for a decade. Make necessary adjustments to the "In Wresting" if needed. Thanks. Colton Meltzer ( talk) 20:41, 2 July 2018 (UTC)
Project Kys focuses on bring back "In Wresting" Section wresting pages - Working around Encyclopedia Guidelines
Best option to bring back this decade-old section, because it bring big successful contribution to the wresting pages. Colton Meltzer ( talk) 21:18, 2 July 2018 (UTC)
@ NotTheFakeJTP: @ HHH Pedrigree: 10 years and must bring back this wresting moves/entrance music section. The kys project will focuses on bring back this section with some changes. No more mini consensus and to end disruptive edits. Rollback this change is a must. Colton Meltzer ( talk) 22:19, 3 July 2018 (UTC)
As above, a few people have mentioned the wider degree of kayfabe being written as fact in pro wrestling articles. Whilst we can all see an article, and find this information, removing kayfabe/rewording can be a little bit difficult. Could we potentially create a tag for this on articles, and then have these articles appear on a hidden category (Similar to Category: Video game cleanup or Category:Video game articles needing infoboxes), and have these appear on our pages somewhere. Perhaps Category: Pro Wrestling articles written in Kayfabe, or similar.
I'd be willing to go through these categories as I do with the other examples for the Video Games WikiProject. Lee Vilenski ( talk • contribs) 07:23, 26 June 2018 (UTC)
This section may contain material discouraged by the
manual of style for professional wrestling. (June 2018) |
- I've created something for a documentation User:Lee Vilenski/Kayfabe/doc, which could do with some work. Lee Vilenski ( talk • contribs) 07:57, 27 June 2018 (UTC)
The discussion and removal of wrestler's moves from their wikipedia pages not only is hasty, but also disastrous. The discussion was closed very quickly with relatively few editors offering their opinion on a DECADE LONG PRECEDENT, that has been in place for a VERY long time. It makes absolutely no sense to remove it. To make such a big change affecting virtually every wrestling/wrestler article on Wikipedia seems egregious and baffling to me. A majority of wrestling fans primarily go on a wrestler's page to look at a person's moveset/moves, and judging by the backlash of other editors on this talk page, it confirms my assertions. Also, with the removal of such a significant section of a wrestler's article, there has to be a solution to the problem. Instead, there has been NO solution offered by any editor who contributed to the removal of the moves section on wrestler's pages, simply removal of the content. VietPride10 ( talk) 04:08, 3 July 2018 (UTC)
- Difficult to police/source. How is this bulleted list any worse than having an overview of the character, and their most important features, written as prose? Lee Vilenski ( talk • contribs) 08:41, 4 July 2018 (UTC)
To give my two cents, I believe that while some information (for example, very extensive signature move lists) can be unnecessary and often uncited) things like finishing maneuvers for wrestlers would not fall under FANCRUFT as they provide additional context for a wrestler as it is often an integral part of the character, and is in turn encyclopedic knowledge. I think this has the potential of alienating the casual user and messing with a decade-long precedent which I am well-aware is not a legitimate reason for re-establishment, but I do think deserves some thought in the decision-making process. I appreciate the prose suggestion but I feel it may be too long and unneeded for smaller wrestlers and too difficult to establish on a wide-spread basis, and is also insufficient at providing what the previous "In Wrestling" section did as a reference point for information about a wrestler. My solution: I personally believe that, as suggested at some point, a section titled 'Professional Wrestling Information' with "signature" maneuvers (i.e., primary moves that the wrestler uses as one to finish a match) that are named as well as nicknames that have been used for the wrestler to be placed under that heading. I understand that this is continuing to discuss an issue that likely won't get changed, but I do believe that, a, the prose method suggested is clunky and insufficient to serve as an efficient reference point for users, b, information such as "signature" moves and nicknames is encyclopedic, and, c, (perhaps most importantly for some) can be citing effectively. A great example of this is Zack Sabre Jr. who has citations to events where moves were given names on commentary as well as links to his Twitter page where he has given moves names. This is information that I would consider important to a performer's character and encyclopedic in nature. To finally conclude, I am sure many users are sick of this discussion, but I truly believe that there is some noteworthy information within the deleted section and I do hope that I have brought up some fair points for consideration. NotAdamKovic ( talk) 04:30, 6 July 2018 (UTC)
During the various discussions on General Sanctions for professional wrestling the topic of a "wrestling notability criteria" was brought up, sort of our version of Wikipedia:Notability (sports). A sort of guideline for when it would be appropriate to create a wrestling related article - be it a biography of a wrestler, a tag team or stable article, a stand-alone show or championship article. Would it help deal with crufty, fanish articles or articles on a team that's teamed up randomly twice and instantly has an article created under 4 different names? This would be a supplement to the General Notability Guideline and could never lessen what is outlined in the GNG. it would help cut down on articles written for every single person signed to a development contract but hasn't done anything yet, championship articles for a promotion where the promotion is not notable etc. Would it help to define one? If people are in favor I'd be happy to help form a consensus for various types of articles. MPJ -DK 01:40, 25 June 2018 (UTC)
the sport specific criteria set forth belowor
this page are intended to reflect the fact that sports figures. Any reason why ECW and ROH were removed? I would also say to use the full names, like World Championship Wrestling instead of WCW. I will go through it in more detail later. - Galatz גאליץ שיחה Talk 19:06, 26 June 2018 (UTC)
The above posted draft page is a proposal for discussion, anything and everything on the page is open for discussion and input MPJ -DK 20:22, 26 June 2018 (UTC)
If it’s not broken, don’t fix it. Getting rid of the moves sub-heading was unnecessary and inconvenient and having it written in prose is a terrible idea, the bullet points are much more concise. SirJohnChegg ( talk) 10:05, 1 July 2018 (UTC)
For example, Chris Jericho briefly used the “Meltdown” as a finisher from 2001-2002, which not a lot of fans know, briefly mentioning it as a notable part of his moveset is far more convienient than it being lost in a Persona page. To be honest, all of the editors are just agreeing amongst themselves and not listening to the average user, most of whom are against this change. — Preceding unsigned comment added by SirJohnChegg ( talk • contribs) 06:20, 4 July 2018 (UTC)
You’re being needlessly stubborn about this useful section and you’re shutting down every opposing argument to keep what should have never been removed. Having a discussion with people who hold the same opinions as you and then declaring it as the general consensus, even though the majority of users are against it, doesn’t help anyone. This persona sub heading is a terrible idea and all moves and entrance themes will be lost within a wall of text. — Preceding unsigned comment added by SirJohnChegg ( talk • contribs) 10:28, 4 July 2018 (UTC)
So seeing as I missed the entire discussion because of my inactivity, I wanna ask for some clarification. I see that the project has decided to remove the "In wrestling" section. So what is to come of the wrestler themes on these articles? I know it's an argument to avoid, but it was pretty useful information that's not really seen elsewhere on the internet. (And not that it matters at this point, but I would have opposed the section's removal. But I digress.) True CRaysball | #RaysUp 14:09, 7 July 2018 (UTC)
Now that the entrance musics and signature moves have been removed and are being worked into the prose, I took a look at some of the other articles related to wrestling. One thing that especially caught my eye was the information of all eliminations in Royal Rumbles and Survivor Series matches, for example in here. It includes a list of all eliminations, elimination orders, the amount of elimination, brands and the time they lasted in the match. In Survivor Series matches the move used to eliminate the wrestler is also listed, without any sources.
Isn't all this equally trivial information that doesn't need to be there? Results -section obviously should be included in PPV articles, and it has good sources, but the Entrances and Eliminations section is just one huge table of pointless information without any sources. Why does a non-fan reading the article need it? All the actually relevant events of those matches are already mentioned in the prose in Event section. Cowposer ( talk) 03:31, 9 July 2018 (UTC)
Sourcing's no problem, but this prestigious guest list has been deemed unsuitably trivial. The prose still says HBK was in tight, and a photo suggests Hornswoggle came close, but that doesn't seem like much of a club. Maybe it's for the best, maybe it isn't, I don't know what I think anymore. But the issue shouldn't get lost in the shuffle of everything else burning down around us lately. InedibleHulk (talk) 05:03, 9 July 2018 (UTC)
Removing of movesets makes no logical sense. While their signature moves aren't their entire story, the moves do represent a part of their gimmicks and persona. I'm not sure why a small group of individuals felt they should unilaterally make such a decision, then claim a 'consensus.'
Was their really any complaints regarding the section? Did the group of 'admins' making this decision consider how the decision would hurt new fans who want to learn more? Why wasn't something decided on to reference the moves before deleting the section from every Wikipedia profile?
Wrestling journalists, fans, and those who are simply curious used the sections as a reminder or to learn new information about a given wrestler or tag team. They should be replaced immediately as the decision wasn't well thoughout, goes against the purpose of Wikipedia (to inform), and does nothing to help the function nor purpose of wrestlers pages. SmoothWrestling ( talk) 06:21, 8 July 2018 (UTC)
Indeed, the above is fine. Although, do we need to know the thousands of people Slick managed? is it particularly notable that a manager once managed Owen Hart? Not everything is notable. If there is a list of a lot of people someone has managed, that's fine to be in a consise way, but I'd also expect some information about the character, and some prose to explain the list. I think sometimes, people want to copy the "Filmography" section to these types of articles, simply because they like lists. Credits and moves are two seperate things. Lee Vilenski ( talk • contribs) 09:54, 9 July 2018 (UTC)
I notice that in Beth Phoenix's infobox the spouse is listed as Edge rather than Adam Copeland. The wrestling infobox is split into two sections real life and storyline. Since the spouse is real life rather than storyline would it make more sense to have Adam Copeland as the spouse in the article about Beth Phoenix? Another point I would like to make is that wrestlers regularly change their ring name so using the real name would create more stability. This affects loads of articles. I checked the style guide but there is no clear guidelines about the spouse. Mobile mundo ( talk) 13:41, 9 July 2018 (UTC)
Please see WP:VPP#Should the "In wrestling" section be removed from professional wrestling articles?. Pre fall 14:57, 10 July 2018 (UTC)
Currently in the C&A section there are two separate sections for anyone who had something on the main roster vs. NXT. Is there a reason for this? We don't break out any other brand, so why this one? The SG says promotions are listed alphabetically, and NXT is not a promotion. - Galatz גאליץ שיחה Talk 02:39, 29 June 2018 (UTC)
Recently, the Project came to consensus to remove the Professional Wrestling Highlights section of articles. However, there was one part of it that I deemed noteworthy. There was the Wrestlers Trained section of that section, when applicable. How should we still note wrestlers the wrestler trained on articles? DrewieStewie of RaiderNation 02:50, 19 July 2018 (UTC)
The "Money in the Bank" theme song seems to be the official theme song for all the PPVs, since 2011, since they no longer list them per year on iTunes and they seem to be calling it just Money in the Bank (Official Theme Song). The Money in the Bank (2018) article should be updated to reflect that since it was used as the theme for the PPV and can be verified via WWE Network. Ron234 ( talk) 18:03, 14 July 2018 (UTC)
- sadly, this is simply speculation. We go on what sources say on Wikipedia. Lee Vilenski ( talk • contribs) 14:55, 19 July 2018 (UTC)
TakeOver should be removed from the List of WWE network events' themed wwe network events sub heading. They are essentially non gimmick nxt events comparable to main roster events like payback or backlash. The exception being TakeOver: WarGames which should be mentioned. Ron234 ( talk) 14:05, 19 July 2018 (UTC)
I posted some time ago to inform that some WrestleMania posters are incorrect but no action was taken. The posters for WM V, X8 and especially 2000 are not the ones used by WWE in their WrestleMania poster article on wwe.com. I believe that they should be updated. Ron234 ( talk) 11:23, 20 July 2018 (UTC)
Hi. According to the SG, we include in the titles the number of defences if the promotion keeps track of them. I had an idea. A number is kind of plain, what do you think about including the name of the rivals? Maybe something hidden, like the infoboxes. Okada, 11 defenses. Click and the list of the challengers appears. What do you think? -- HHH Pedrigree ( talk) 20:09, 22 July 2018 (UTC)
Hello, I'm here to voice my anger at the recent vandalism done to individual wrestler pages. For years, I've used Wikipedia whenever I need to find out important information on an individual wrestler. Whether that be their entrance music history, signature and finishing moves, nicknames, managers, tag team partners, etc. However recently, all that important information has been deleted, in a truly baffling decision.
The whole point of Wikipedia is to provide information. Removing information goes against the whole point of Wikipedia's existence. In the past if I heard entrance music, wanted to listen to a clean version, and didn't know what it was called, I'd look up that wrestler's Wikipedia page, see the track's name, and then search for it. Now, I can't do that anymore. If I wanted to update a superstar's moveset on the recent 2K game, but didn't know the technical name for a move and the move is only listed under it's technical name in the game, I'd look that wrestler's finisher on their Wikipedia page. I can't do that anymore. If I wanted to know a wrestler's nickname history so I could write it into a promo, I'd look up their Wikipedia page. I can't do that anymore. If I wanted to know the entrance music history of a wrestler, I'd look up their Wikipedia page. I can't do that anymore. The vast majority of times that I've used Wikipedia for wrestling information, it's been to look up information on the "In Wrestling" section.
The point is, a small group of people have decided to limit other readers, and I cannot understand how this is allowed. It's clear that the users removing information are not wrestling fans, because if they were then they'd know how vital this information is to wrestling fans. And considering that the vast majority of readers looking up wrestling pages are wrestling fans, it makes no sense to try to drive them away from a previously useful source of information. Come on, these are wrestling pages. You need important wrestling information on there.
At current time, there is no adequate alternative. There is a pro wrestling wiki, but it's clunky, cluttered, and it's presentation is nowhere near as clean as Wikipedia. Wikipedia used to be the perfect source, but now that's been taken away.
Until the people editing these pages see sense, Wikipedia is now utterly useless to me when it comes to needing wrestling information. So well done, congratulate yourselves on driving frequent users (aka the people these articles should be targeted to) away. There is clearly a large amount of people upset by this change, much greater than the "majority" who made this decision. So I can only hope that this decision will be reversed, and important information restored.
- A very disgruntled reader 80.2.40.117 ( talk) 00:12, 9 July 2018 (UTC)
- The issue is that most of this information, even if we sourced is irrelevent to the subject. The link above has 16 wrestlers that he's trained. Could this seriously not be written as prose? "After leaving the WWF, he began training wrestlers at his Wild Samoan Training Facility, along with Sika. Afa Anoa'i is a successful trainer, and is credited for training wrestler's such as Batista, Havok and Roman Reigns. Having a list afterwards, or a category for Category:Wrestler's trained by Afa Anoa'i would do the trick. Having things written in prose naturally pushes people from adding a source that denotes every move the wrestler does, and it looks better. Noting that he uses a headbutt as a signature move is a bit irrelevent, but if we could mention why this is important - Most Samoans use headbutts, that would be beneficial information. Lee Vilenski ( talk • contribs) 08:03, 10 July 2018 (UTC)
Hey guys: you can easily verify a wrestler's move set by watching their wrestling matches. The source is the wrestling matches.
Ditto for themes, and much the other "unverifiable" information that you cited.
If you don't understand this extremely simple concept, you shouldn't be editing the wrestling section.
Put the lists back.
Neighbormania ( talk) 18:13, 24 July 2018 (UTC)
you shouldn't be editing the wrestling sectionso can we take the fact that you have not edited the wrestling section yourself as some sort of admission? Btw. Belligerence gets you nowhere. MPJ -DK 19:30, 24 July 2018 (UTC)
See Talk:WWE tournaments#Split proposal.-- JohnBlackburne words deeds 13:09, 25 July 2018 (UTC)
Why does this need to be an article? There is no other wrestler with such an article. I am not seeing the need for it. Mr. C.C. Hey yo! I didn't do it!
The project may wish to know that as I type this, User:Moe Epsilon ( | talk | history | links | watch | logs) is moving a slew of articles from "List of (professional wrestling promotion) alumni" to "List of former (professional wrestling promotion) personnel" and adjusting links accordingly. RadioKAOS / Talk to me, Billy / Transmissions 22:38, 25 July 2018 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
There's been an ongoing AfD for The B-Team (professional wrestling). Please participate if you can. Thanks. Sekyaw (talk) 04:36, 24 July 2018 (UTC)
I have started a discussion at Talk:WWE tournaments#Requested move 27 July 2018 that everyone might be interested in. - Galatz גאליץ שיחה Talk 13:17, 27 July 2018 (UTC)
These articles are very problematic and terribly written (" And today when the Bholu Brothers have long since departed from this world, we cannot talk about the Pakistani wrestling without recalling these Wrestling Greats, who spent their lives for wrestling" is just one of the fawning sentences). First of all the initial version of Bholu Brothers is a copy and paste from here, and despite some cleanup attempts since the article is still in an embarrassing state. The only reason I have not tagged it as a copyright violation is because of this source currently being used in the article. While the source is actually another copy of the original article and therefore a circular reference and of no use whatsoever, it does link the article's author Farid Azam with the username faridzenger1 who is presumably Faridzenger ( talk · contribs) that created the article here.
There are some sources such as this which appear reliable, but some quick investigations proves them to be utterly worthless. The Bholu Pahalwan and Bholu Brothers both contain information about a supposed 1967 match.
The "Henry Perry" text was originally added to the Bholu Pahalwan article in March 2007 by Faridzenger, but he was renamed to "Henri Pierlot (Les Thornton)" in the original version of the Bholu Brothers article in September 20009. I can find no record of a wrestler called Henry Perry ( Les Thornton of course does exist), and no record of a show at Empire Pool (now known as Wembley Arena) in 1967, and there would be some record of a show of that size.
Now back to the tribune.com.pk article, this states "In 1967, he offered 5,000 British pounds to anyone in the world who could beat him and that same year won the World Heavyweight Title fight against Anglo-French heavyweight champion Henry Perry in London". Henry Perry doesn't appear in the oocities article (where he's Henri Pierlot) or anywhere else I looked, apart from our article on Bholu Pahalwan. So if we were to use that as a source we're back to circular referencing, since it's clear they got that information, and presumably everything else, from our article.
All these articles were created by Faridzenger who is apparently also the author of the oocities article, this creates clear problems with referencing. Due to information of unknown accuracy from our existing articles contaminating what might have been reliable sources I do not believe there are any reliable sources from which these articles can be rewritten. Since WP:AFD is not for cleanup I would prefer to gain some consensus as to what course of action should be taken. I can see two possible solutions.
Thoughts from anyone else? 2A02:C7D:3CAF:D900:B41C:B90D:756E:CBEC ( talk) 11:10, 27 July 2018 (UTC)
There are currently two sources on Bholu Brothers.
There are currently three sources on Bholu Pahalwan.
There are currently two sources on Aslam Pahalwan.
2A02:C7D:3CAF:D900:B41C:B90D:756E:CBEC ( talk) 11:55, 27 July 2018 (UTC)
There is a discussion here brought by 2.28.124.67, about how to describe the difference between actually winning a championship in sports vs professional wrestling. Grapple X in a good faith effort to get an article promoted to Featured List added the term "booked to win" for several articles.
This wording choice is problematic to me for several reasons. Firstly its WP:OR because we never know if things were changed at the last minutes without a WP:RS telling us that it was the plan all along. Secondly, to me, it implies they were booked to win it, but plans changed. For example if you read here [15] you will see the old method it appears it did not go as planned, while the second one it clear that it did. In that same example the same "was booked to" term was also used to describe a request to change plans, it cannot mean something that did and something that did not happen, but in the same section. A another example [16] implied that there was never a booked plan to have anyone else win it more than once, but how do we know what plans were, someone could have been booked to but plans changed.
Therefore, perhaps the correct answer is to include a line in all championship articles, something along the line of what we have for events. An example would be:
The championship's holder is a result of scripted storylines and had results typically predetermined by (promotion). [1]
Thoughts? - Galatz גאליץ שיחה Talk 16:17, 24 July 2018 (UTC)
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