This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 95 | ← | Archive 97 | Archive 98 | Archive 99 | Archive 100 | Archive 101 | → | Archive 105 |
I have created together with Smallman12q a toolserver tool that shows a weekly-updated list of cleanup categories for WikiProjects, that can be used as a replacement for WolterBot and this WikiProject is among those that are already included (because it is a member of Category:WolterBot cleanup listing subscriptions). See the tool's wiki page, this project's listing in one big table or by categories and the index of WikiProjects. Svick ( talk) 19:51, 7 November 2010 (UTC)
For general info. I've recently created Category:Operas set in Australia. I've populated it as far as I can, but I'm sure there must be other candidates. -- Jack of Oz ... speak! ... 20:01, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
OK here's a teaser. This opera is listed under William Tell (opera). It is very rarely (if ever) performed in English - as the article says, it is done either in French or sometimes Italian. Of course it may be referred to in conversation in Englsh as 'William Tell', but in 90%+ of case that would be in respect of the William Tell Overture (which incdentally should perhaps have a lower case o). So should not the main article in WP be 'Guilaume Tell'? Over to its eponym, perhaps.-- Smerus ( talk) 07:36, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
Changed the overture. By the way, inspecting the article on the overture has given rise to this, on which people may wish to comment.-- Smerus ( talk) 13:31, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
Soprano Ingeborg Reichelt was married to a man who recently died and has an article. Imo it is not good to write additional things about him in her article. I removed it once, it returned. How should we handle this? -- Gerda Arendt ( talk) 12:06, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
I came across Christa Mayer in relation to Rudi Spring and consider "her" not a stub anymore, please check. Btw, String was one more de-bio without refs. I wonder if some of the red links to people should be inter-wiki in his case. I did that for an orchestra and an ensemble. -- Gerda Arendt ( talk) 23:09, 29 November 2010 (UTC)
I'm inclined to hold the November ones over for December, minus the ones which have already been worked on because [a] December 1st is tomorrow and [b] so many people are otherwise engaged during the holidays. However, if anyone has any other suggestions beefore this evening, speak up. Voceditenore ( talk) 14:30, 30 November 2010 (UTC)
I am currently having a discussion at Talk:Lulu (opera) about the placing (not the content) of an Instrumentation section in opera articles. I am aware that this probably is not very important for pre-romantic opera (instrumentation being rather standard in the Classical and Baroque era), but I am convinced this has a certain level of importance, certainly for 20th/21st century operas. Since the guidelines offer no solution, it might be useful to reach consensus on this matter to avoid future discussions. -- Francesco Malipiero ( talk) 19:03, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
I am almost certain that this move to capitalised italiana is not correct. Anybody ? Signed Francesco Malipiero ( talk) 17:34, 5 December 2010 (UTC) (forgot to log-in before posting this)
Viking Opera Guide does not capitalise either. I've just dug out a copy of Corriere della sera from last year and they don't follow the rule: "Gli iraniani accusano l'Occidente", "gli arabi", "i palestinesi", "una irlandese" etc. etc. You can see this for yourself around the internet. -- Folantin ( talk) 14:35, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
But Italian WP does follow the rule, e.g. the Italiana article itself, [11], and yesterday's featured article [12]. It certainly is a rule much honoured in the breach, but applying it cannot be called a vagary unless someone can come up with a statement from an authoritative grammarian that capitalisation is not (or no longer) required for nomi che indicano persone appartenenti a nazione, regione o città. Otherwise, we can go on listing examples and counter-examples from the internet till we're blue in the face. Awien ( talk) 18:18, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
I did not want to interfere with this discussion earlier (although I started it) as my knowledge of the Italian language is very rudimentary, but I have noticed that the examples given by Awien are always in the plural (indicating a people, as in I Lombardi alla prima crociata, not a singular representative of a people). Just an observation from a person with no knowledge of linguistics whatsoever. Regards. Francesco Malipiero ( talk) 22:29, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
It's really a distinction between old and new grammar books. If you look at the bottom of www.novecentoletterario.it suggested by Awien, there are quotes from various Italian grammar books. One of them notes that the modern tendency is to use lower case for nouns of nationality (Flora Francesco. Grammatica italiana. Cappelli Ed. Bologna, 1971), and another suggests that either is acceptable (Dardano Maurizio e Trifone Pietro. Grammatica italiana. Zanichelli. Bologna, 1995). Meanwhile both of these more recent books on Italian grammar for English speakers, written by Italians 2002, 1997 "prescribe" lower case for nationality nouns in Italian. This article on "Bare predicate nominals in Romance languages" (written by an Italian) likewise uses lower case for nationality nouns in one of his examples (see notes at bottom of p. 102). So I don't even think it's a case of "what is" vs "what should be". Anyhow, as there is no consensus for such a change, I'll put a link to this discussion on Talk:L'italiana in Algeri, since the bulk of the discussion seems to have taken place here. Voceditenore ( talk) 10:15, 10 December 2010 (UTC)
I'd like to sort out this one before the holidays encroach. Any suggestions? Voceditenore ( talk) 14:35, 30 November 2010 (UTC)
Any suggestions? Voceditenore ( talk) 14:37, 30 November 2010 (UTC)
Two possibilities to consider:
Women Composers (for the first two we have no articles on any of their operas)
"Orphaned" composers (These composers have no articles on any of their operas.)
– Voceditenore ( talk) 17:20, 10 December 2010 (UTC)
I have a query about naming articles about operatic performers. Please could someone point out a guideline which sets out that full names rather than stage names are normally used for artists (with redirects). I have just had an article changed on this basis and would like to consult the format rules – either on Opera project, or generally in Wikipedia. Thank you. Cg2p0B0u8m ( talk) 17:02, 20 December 2010 (UTC)
Take a look (if the subject is of interest!) -- Guillaume Tell 19:08, 3 December 2010 (UTC)
Is it correct to say the the first performer of a role "creates" the role, or is the role created by the composer/librettist/original source author? For example, is it correct to say (as his article does) that Theodor Uppman created the role of Billy Budd, or did librettists Forster and Crozier, or did Melville? If the first performer "creates" the role, then is it correct to say that the role of Billy Budd has been created three times (once by whoever played the part in Ghedini's opera, once by Uppman, and once by whoever played the part in Coxe's play)? I'm just trying to get a better understanding of how the term "create" is being used in this context. Thanks, cmadler ( talk) 18:41, 22 December 2010 (UTC)
Turning rather tardily to the Operas of the Month, I've been turning the mishmash that is Iphigénie en Tauride#Recordings into a table, following (more or less) the standard format shown in Wikipedia:WikiProject_Opera/Article_styles_and_formats#Recordings_.28table_style.29. I was thinking of adding some or all of the other sets that can be found on the Operone.de site, but Folantin, whom I've been consulting, points out that "a lot of them are long out-of-print recordings plus some "semi-legit" live stuff."
I'm sure that I've seen some discussion of this somewhere-or-other on WP, maybe more than once, but can't remember where. My inclination would be to include only recordings whose label is respectable - HMV, EMI, Decca, Sony, Telarc, DG, Philips, Naxos, Orfeo, etc., whether in or out of print, whether live or not, and including pre-CD formats such as LPs. I wouldn't include, for example, Premiere Opera, but there's a bit of a grey area with, to me, fairly respectable (are they?) labels such as Bongiovanni, Myto and Gala. I was going to add Arthaus, but that seems to be a subsidiary of Naxos, so is apparently legit (is it?). Maybe I should only include labels that appear in List of record labels, which would exclude Bongiovanni, Myto, Gala and Arthaus.
Can we formulate some guidelines which could be added to the Article styles and formats subpage - all comments welcome.
-- Guillaume Tell 17:22, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 95 | ← | Archive 97 | Archive 98 | Archive 99 | Archive 100 | Archive 101 | → | Archive 105 |
I have created together with Smallman12q a toolserver tool that shows a weekly-updated list of cleanup categories for WikiProjects, that can be used as a replacement for WolterBot and this WikiProject is among those that are already included (because it is a member of Category:WolterBot cleanup listing subscriptions). See the tool's wiki page, this project's listing in one big table or by categories and the index of WikiProjects. Svick ( talk) 19:51, 7 November 2010 (UTC)
For general info. I've recently created Category:Operas set in Australia. I've populated it as far as I can, but I'm sure there must be other candidates. -- Jack of Oz ... speak! ... 20:01, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
OK here's a teaser. This opera is listed under William Tell (opera). It is very rarely (if ever) performed in English - as the article says, it is done either in French or sometimes Italian. Of course it may be referred to in conversation in Englsh as 'William Tell', but in 90%+ of case that would be in respect of the William Tell Overture (which incdentally should perhaps have a lower case o). So should not the main article in WP be 'Guilaume Tell'? Over to its eponym, perhaps.-- Smerus ( talk) 07:36, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
Changed the overture. By the way, inspecting the article on the overture has given rise to this, on which people may wish to comment.-- Smerus ( talk) 13:31, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
Soprano Ingeborg Reichelt was married to a man who recently died and has an article. Imo it is not good to write additional things about him in her article. I removed it once, it returned. How should we handle this? -- Gerda Arendt ( talk) 12:06, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
I came across Christa Mayer in relation to Rudi Spring and consider "her" not a stub anymore, please check. Btw, String was one more de-bio without refs. I wonder if some of the red links to people should be inter-wiki in his case. I did that for an orchestra and an ensemble. -- Gerda Arendt ( talk) 23:09, 29 November 2010 (UTC)
I'm inclined to hold the November ones over for December, minus the ones which have already been worked on because [a] December 1st is tomorrow and [b] so many people are otherwise engaged during the holidays. However, if anyone has any other suggestions beefore this evening, speak up. Voceditenore ( talk) 14:30, 30 November 2010 (UTC)
I am currently having a discussion at Talk:Lulu (opera) about the placing (not the content) of an Instrumentation section in opera articles. I am aware that this probably is not very important for pre-romantic opera (instrumentation being rather standard in the Classical and Baroque era), but I am convinced this has a certain level of importance, certainly for 20th/21st century operas. Since the guidelines offer no solution, it might be useful to reach consensus on this matter to avoid future discussions. -- Francesco Malipiero ( talk) 19:03, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
I am almost certain that this move to capitalised italiana is not correct. Anybody ? Signed Francesco Malipiero ( talk) 17:34, 5 December 2010 (UTC) (forgot to log-in before posting this)
Viking Opera Guide does not capitalise either. I've just dug out a copy of Corriere della sera from last year and they don't follow the rule: "Gli iraniani accusano l'Occidente", "gli arabi", "i palestinesi", "una irlandese" etc. etc. You can see this for yourself around the internet. -- Folantin ( talk) 14:35, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
But Italian WP does follow the rule, e.g. the Italiana article itself, [11], and yesterday's featured article [12]. It certainly is a rule much honoured in the breach, but applying it cannot be called a vagary unless someone can come up with a statement from an authoritative grammarian that capitalisation is not (or no longer) required for nomi che indicano persone appartenenti a nazione, regione o città. Otherwise, we can go on listing examples and counter-examples from the internet till we're blue in the face. Awien ( talk) 18:18, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
I did not want to interfere with this discussion earlier (although I started it) as my knowledge of the Italian language is very rudimentary, but I have noticed that the examples given by Awien are always in the plural (indicating a people, as in I Lombardi alla prima crociata, not a singular representative of a people). Just an observation from a person with no knowledge of linguistics whatsoever. Regards. Francesco Malipiero ( talk) 22:29, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
It's really a distinction between old and new grammar books. If you look at the bottom of www.novecentoletterario.it suggested by Awien, there are quotes from various Italian grammar books. One of them notes that the modern tendency is to use lower case for nouns of nationality (Flora Francesco. Grammatica italiana. Cappelli Ed. Bologna, 1971), and another suggests that either is acceptable (Dardano Maurizio e Trifone Pietro. Grammatica italiana. Zanichelli. Bologna, 1995). Meanwhile both of these more recent books on Italian grammar for English speakers, written by Italians 2002, 1997 "prescribe" lower case for nationality nouns in Italian. This article on "Bare predicate nominals in Romance languages" (written by an Italian) likewise uses lower case for nationality nouns in one of his examples (see notes at bottom of p. 102). So I don't even think it's a case of "what is" vs "what should be". Anyhow, as there is no consensus for such a change, I'll put a link to this discussion on Talk:L'italiana in Algeri, since the bulk of the discussion seems to have taken place here. Voceditenore ( talk) 10:15, 10 December 2010 (UTC)
I'd like to sort out this one before the holidays encroach. Any suggestions? Voceditenore ( talk) 14:35, 30 November 2010 (UTC)
Any suggestions? Voceditenore ( talk) 14:37, 30 November 2010 (UTC)
Two possibilities to consider:
Women Composers (for the first two we have no articles on any of their operas)
"Orphaned" composers (These composers have no articles on any of their operas.)
– Voceditenore ( talk) 17:20, 10 December 2010 (UTC)
I have a query about naming articles about operatic performers. Please could someone point out a guideline which sets out that full names rather than stage names are normally used for artists (with redirects). I have just had an article changed on this basis and would like to consult the format rules – either on Opera project, or generally in Wikipedia. Thank you. Cg2p0B0u8m ( talk) 17:02, 20 December 2010 (UTC)
Take a look (if the subject is of interest!) -- Guillaume Tell 19:08, 3 December 2010 (UTC)
Is it correct to say the the first performer of a role "creates" the role, or is the role created by the composer/librettist/original source author? For example, is it correct to say (as his article does) that Theodor Uppman created the role of Billy Budd, or did librettists Forster and Crozier, or did Melville? If the first performer "creates" the role, then is it correct to say that the role of Billy Budd has been created three times (once by whoever played the part in Ghedini's opera, once by Uppman, and once by whoever played the part in Coxe's play)? I'm just trying to get a better understanding of how the term "create" is being used in this context. Thanks, cmadler ( talk) 18:41, 22 December 2010 (UTC)
Turning rather tardily to the Operas of the Month, I've been turning the mishmash that is Iphigénie en Tauride#Recordings into a table, following (more or less) the standard format shown in Wikipedia:WikiProject_Opera/Article_styles_and_formats#Recordings_.28table_style.29. I was thinking of adding some or all of the other sets that can be found on the Operone.de site, but Folantin, whom I've been consulting, points out that "a lot of them are long out-of-print recordings plus some "semi-legit" live stuff."
I'm sure that I've seen some discussion of this somewhere-or-other on WP, maybe more than once, but can't remember where. My inclination would be to include only recordings whose label is respectable - HMV, EMI, Decca, Sony, Telarc, DG, Philips, Naxos, Orfeo, etc., whether in or out of print, whether live or not, and including pre-CD formats such as LPs. I wouldn't include, for example, Premiere Opera, but there's a bit of a grey area with, to me, fairly respectable (are they?) labels such as Bongiovanni, Myto and Gala. I was going to add Arthaus, but that seems to be a subsidiary of Naxos, so is apparently legit (is it?). Maybe I should only include labels that appear in List of record labels, which would exclude Bongiovanni, Myto, Gala and Arthaus.
Can we formulate some guidelines which could be added to the Article styles and formats subpage - all comments welcome.
-- Guillaume Tell 17:22, 25 November 2010 (UTC)