This is the
talk page for discussing
WikiProject National Football League and anything related to its purposes and tasks. |
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Archives: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24Auto-archiving period: 21 days |
National Football League Project‑class | |||||||
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To-do list for Wikipedia:WikiProject National Football League:
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WikiProject National Football League was featured in a WikiProject Report in the Signpost on 20 November 2013. |
RM being held concerning playoff games in the NFL's history. GoodDay ( talk) 20:41, 3 May 2024 (UTC)
And now move reviews of these at WP:MRV#1933 NFL Championship Game and WP:MRV#AFC Championship Game. Dicklyon ( talk) 14:16, 15 May 2024 (UTC)
Also
RM being held concerning UFL playoff games. --
GoodDay (
talk) 03:33, 5 May 2024 (UTC)
You are invited to join the discussion at Wikipedia talk:Naming conventions (sportspeople)#Disambiguating with (football) for football players, which is within the scope of this WikiProject. Hameltion ( talk | contribs) 21:26, 5 May 2024 (UTC)
Hi everybody. I suggest don't add career records for players who are still active. Why? Well, I think it'll cause too many inaccuracy in infoboxes.
E.g. Justin Jefferson holds the record for most career receiving yards per game with 98.3. When he plays one more game, for example, it'll be 99.5, 97.5, etc. So we will need to change it after every game he plays.
Also, Patrick Mahomes holds the record for career playoff passer rating (minimum 150 attempts) with 105.8 and career passing yards per game (minimum 1,500 attempts): 296.1. Once again, we will need to change it after every game he plays. And additionally for these last two, IMO are arbitrary records and they shouldn't be added in infoboxes. (See: WP:NFLINFOBOXNOT) Sergio Skol ( talk) 22:04, 8 May 2024 (UTC)
There's still work to do relating to the 2024 NFL draft if anybody's interested. A number of the picks are missing text in the body that they were selected and/or need further cleanup (see e.g. these edits). Many of the undrafted free agent signings also need to be updated with text about their signing, the appropriate navboxes, NFL talk page banners, etc. Any help would be appreciated. BeanieFan11 ( talk) 22:47, 8 May 2024 (UTC)
A review I received Based on Common draft on my featured list nomination of List of Kansas City Chiefs first-round draft picks asked for a bit more clarity on what the common draft is. Upon looking at common draft, I noticed it references only the drafts from 1967–1969 ( 1969 NFL/AFL draft, 1968 NFL/AFL draft, 1969 NFL/AFL draft). Template:NFL drafts also refers to that same set of 3 drafts as the "common draft", and everything after 1970 as the "modern era". Depending on where you look, "modern era" is often used to refer to the Super Bowl era, which, arguably started in 1967 or 1970. Never the less, I think for drafts, we typically refer to it as the common draft era as opposed to the modern era, whereas for seasons and championships, we may refer to it as the modern/Super Bowl era.
I believe the term "common draft" should be referring to everything from 1967 onwards and that the common draft and the NFL drafts template mistakenly imply that the common draft and modern era are separate eras. The phrase "common draft" is simply meant to refer to the fact that the leagues combined their drafts, which they started doing in 1967. They began simply calling it the "NFL draft", but it's, never the less, been the "common draft" since then.
A number of sources that explicitly reference the common draft era as having started from 1967 onwards:
Essentially, what I'm asking, is for consensus to update Template:NFL drafts to remove "modern era" and move all of those entries to "common draft". I'd also love consensus (and for someone to be willing) to update the common draft article. Hey man im josh ( talk) 15:55, 10 May 2024 (UTC)
I am proposing we remove NFL.com links from player infoboxes completely. After the website nuked the player stats pages in 2020, they have become mostly unusable/irrelevant. This is in addition to
over 11,000 broken links from that 2020 change. Unless there is any opposition to the change, I will deprecate the |nfl=
parameter from
Template:Infobox NFL biography in a week.
Eagles
24/7
(C) 19:15, 10 May 2024 (UTC)
|nfl=
and |nflnew=
parameters now show up as deprecated.
Category:Pages using infobox NFL biography with unsupported parameters is beginning to populate with every article still using those parameters, so someone can use AWB to clean those up.
Eagles
24/7
(C) 23:45, 18 May 2024 (UTC)
I'm looking for ideas for featured topics that are primarily lists, as I want to contribute to a good or featured topic but I don't want to do GAs or FAs.
Any feedback or suggestions would be appreciated, as I'm looking for new things to promote to featured list status now that I'm finished with the first-round pick lists (28 promoted, 2 nominated, last 2 prepped and ready for nomination but there's limits to how many I can nom at once). Hey man im josh ( talk) 20:46, 10 May 2024 (UTC)
I've started a discussion at the talk page of List of first overall NFL draft picks. I would like to rework the list and get it promoted to featured list status. I'd appreciate any feedback at the discussion on the talk page. Hey man im josh ( talk) 14:02, 14 May 2024 (UTC)
Wikipedia:Move review/Log/2024 May includes two move reviews, one for the NFL Championship Game and one for the AFC Championship Game (which would also include the NFC Championship Game), which may be of interest to project members. Randy Kryn ( talk) 14:46, 15 May 2024 (UTC)
I am really struggling with these "List of XXX players" lists. There are some ( List of Chicago Tigers players) that are difficult to even define as an actual functional article. They are wildly different in format, some of which contend to be a comprehensive list of a team's players ( List of San Francisco 49ers players), some that include additional details about each player ( List of Tampa Bay Buccaneers players) and some that just highlight key players found in other smaller team lists ( List of Chicago Bears players). However, the one thing they all have in common is that they are all wildly out-of-date and likely to continue to be. Unlike basketball (see Portland Trail Blazers all-time roster), NFL team's these days have huge rosters, with easily 60+ players playing at least one game a season. For some older clubs, we are talking about thousands of players, for 32 teams. The task of maintaining a true all-time roster for modern NFL clubs is a monumental, and I would argue, unlikely and pointless endeavor that is more appropriate for Categorization or external sources (such as Pro-Football-Reference). I would also argue that maintaining an all-time roster for NFL teams, considering how large their rosters are and how often players move from team-to-team, falls into WP:NOTSTATS territory.
Thinking this through, I have a proposal for how to address these lists in a way that makes them functional and maintainable:
I know this may seem drastic, but from the perspective of quality, navigability and ease of editor maintenance, this is the simplest and most straightforward solution. It would allow us to standardize the format of these pages and point readers into their likely direction (finding smaller, more defined lists). Think about it, if I would like to know who has played for the Packers, I would either look that person up on Wikipedia or I would go to PFR or some other stat website. I honestly struggle to understand how a page like this, for example List of Jacksonville Jaguars players, could be helpful to a Wikipedia reader, even if it is actively maintained and accurate. Interested to hear everyone's thoughts on this. « Gonzo fan2007 (talk) @ 19:49, 16 May 2024 (UTC)
I stumbled across Billy Shields after some random clicking of Wikilinks, and figured I take a shot at expanding it a bit. However, I've hit a speed bump in the form of a paywall regarding what happened to Shields after being traded by the Chargers to the Vikings before the 1984 season but then being signed by the 49ers after the season began. One guess is that Shields was released by the Vikings without even playing in a game, and then picked up by the Niners. This book, however, seems to suggest that Shields was released by the Chargers and then claimed off waivers by the Niners, which might mean the trade with Minnesota fell through for some reason. Anyway, I think the answer can be found here, but I'm not interested in subscribing to the Washington Post just to access the article. So, I wondering if anyone else has access to the article or perhaps can find an alternative source that can help clarify what happened between the Vikings and Shields. -- Marchjuly ( talk) 07:53, 17 May 2024 (UTC)
San Francisco 49ers -- Signed offensive tackle Billy Shields, 6-8, 280-pound Pro Bowl alternate the past two years. Shields had left the San Diego Chargers in training camp because of a contract dispute. He then was traded to Minnesota, but that deal was voided when Shields and the Vikings could not come to terms. Shields was waived formally by the Chargers last week. To make room for Shields, the 49ers waived center John Macauley.
I did some Googling and found some more stull about Shield's post NFL-career that might be encyclopedically relevant but I'm not sure about it sourcing. The first one is 2012 San Madre CA Patch article which discusses Shield's involvement in a local development project. The article referneces Shields a number of times and referes to him as a former executive VP for a company called Sunrise Senior Living as well as the founder of a LLC called Fountain Square Development. The article isn't exactly flattering per se, and Patch Media doesn't seem to be considered much of a reliable source based on varous discussions found in the WP:RSN archives. Still, this might help lead to other sources for this type of information (like this and this) that can somehow be used. The other item I found is related to a 2012 concusion injury lawsuit filed by a number of former NFL players against the NFL in Pennsylvania. Shields is listed as plaitiff 192 and there's some brief biographical information about him found on page 77. The lawsuit itself is a primary source, but I'm wondering if it's sufficent for supporting content about Shield's wife and his involvement in the lawsuit. -- Marchjuly ( talk) 01:17, 20 May 2024 (UTC)
Asking if we should use the actual names of the ones used in the past (before the 2011 season)
@
Centurion Seraph thinks we should use [[Griese–Brees Quarterback of the Year|Griese–Brees Big Ten Quarterback of the Year]]
and I think we should keep links as simply as possible using [[Griese–Brees Quarterback of the Year]]
according to
WP:NOPIPE and
WP:NOTBROKEN, because the
Tatum–Woodson Defensive Back of the Year (e. g.) redirect to the right section.
No other conferences have awards named after any players, so why add the "Big Ten"? Those links doesn't work ( Griese–Brees Big Ten Quarterback of the Year and Big Ten Quarterback of the Year are red links)
So should we leave out "Big Ten"? Sergio Skol ( talk) 22:22, 19 May 2024 (UTC)
No other conferences have conference awards named after players...: For the record, the Pac-12 has (or had?) the Pat Tillman Defensive Player of the Year.— Bagumba ( talk) 03:57, 20 May 2024 (UTC)
Conference specific awards shouldn't be included otherwise.(responding to @Hey man im josh's comment here due to outdent above): A conference's off or def POY is more exclusive than their 11 or 22 all-conference selections on each side. What's the rationale for excluding them over all-conf? We can drop conference and even national freshman honors.— Bagumba ( talk) 04:10, 20 May 2024 (UTC)
Ohio State star wide receiver Marvin Harrison Jr. was named the Big Ten Graham-George Offensive Player of the Year Wednesday, marking a sixth straight season in which one of the Buckeyes was so recognized.[3]— Bagumba ( talk) 17:33, 22 May 2024 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing
WikiProject National Football League and anything related to its purposes and tasks. |
|
Archives: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24Auto-archiving period: 21 days |
National Football League Project‑class | |||||||
|
To-do list for Wikipedia:WikiProject National Football League:
|
WikiProject National Football League was featured in a WikiProject Report in the Signpost on 20 November 2013. |
RM being held concerning playoff games in the NFL's history. GoodDay ( talk) 20:41, 3 May 2024 (UTC)
And now move reviews of these at WP:MRV#1933 NFL Championship Game and WP:MRV#AFC Championship Game. Dicklyon ( talk) 14:16, 15 May 2024 (UTC)
Also
RM being held concerning UFL playoff games. --
GoodDay (
talk) 03:33, 5 May 2024 (UTC)
You are invited to join the discussion at Wikipedia talk:Naming conventions (sportspeople)#Disambiguating with (football) for football players, which is within the scope of this WikiProject. Hameltion ( talk | contribs) 21:26, 5 May 2024 (UTC)
Hi everybody. I suggest don't add career records for players who are still active. Why? Well, I think it'll cause too many inaccuracy in infoboxes.
E.g. Justin Jefferson holds the record for most career receiving yards per game with 98.3. When he plays one more game, for example, it'll be 99.5, 97.5, etc. So we will need to change it after every game he plays.
Also, Patrick Mahomes holds the record for career playoff passer rating (minimum 150 attempts) with 105.8 and career passing yards per game (minimum 1,500 attempts): 296.1. Once again, we will need to change it after every game he plays. And additionally for these last two, IMO are arbitrary records and they shouldn't be added in infoboxes. (See: WP:NFLINFOBOXNOT) Sergio Skol ( talk) 22:04, 8 May 2024 (UTC)
There's still work to do relating to the 2024 NFL draft if anybody's interested. A number of the picks are missing text in the body that they were selected and/or need further cleanup (see e.g. these edits). Many of the undrafted free agent signings also need to be updated with text about their signing, the appropriate navboxes, NFL talk page banners, etc. Any help would be appreciated. BeanieFan11 ( talk) 22:47, 8 May 2024 (UTC)
A review I received Based on Common draft on my featured list nomination of List of Kansas City Chiefs first-round draft picks asked for a bit more clarity on what the common draft is. Upon looking at common draft, I noticed it references only the drafts from 1967–1969 ( 1969 NFL/AFL draft, 1968 NFL/AFL draft, 1969 NFL/AFL draft). Template:NFL drafts also refers to that same set of 3 drafts as the "common draft", and everything after 1970 as the "modern era". Depending on where you look, "modern era" is often used to refer to the Super Bowl era, which, arguably started in 1967 or 1970. Never the less, I think for drafts, we typically refer to it as the common draft era as opposed to the modern era, whereas for seasons and championships, we may refer to it as the modern/Super Bowl era.
I believe the term "common draft" should be referring to everything from 1967 onwards and that the common draft and the NFL drafts template mistakenly imply that the common draft and modern era are separate eras. The phrase "common draft" is simply meant to refer to the fact that the leagues combined their drafts, which they started doing in 1967. They began simply calling it the "NFL draft", but it's, never the less, been the "common draft" since then.
A number of sources that explicitly reference the common draft era as having started from 1967 onwards:
Essentially, what I'm asking, is for consensus to update Template:NFL drafts to remove "modern era" and move all of those entries to "common draft". I'd also love consensus (and for someone to be willing) to update the common draft article. Hey man im josh ( talk) 15:55, 10 May 2024 (UTC)
I am proposing we remove NFL.com links from player infoboxes completely. After the website nuked the player stats pages in 2020, they have become mostly unusable/irrelevant. This is in addition to
over 11,000 broken links from that 2020 change. Unless there is any opposition to the change, I will deprecate the |nfl=
parameter from
Template:Infobox NFL biography in a week.
Eagles
24/7
(C) 19:15, 10 May 2024 (UTC)
|nfl=
and |nflnew=
parameters now show up as deprecated.
Category:Pages using infobox NFL biography with unsupported parameters is beginning to populate with every article still using those parameters, so someone can use AWB to clean those up.
Eagles
24/7
(C) 23:45, 18 May 2024 (UTC)
I'm looking for ideas for featured topics that are primarily lists, as I want to contribute to a good or featured topic but I don't want to do GAs or FAs.
Any feedback or suggestions would be appreciated, as I'm looking for new things to promote to featured list status now that I'm finished with the first-round pick lists (28 promoted, 2 nominated, last 2 prepped and ready for nomination but there's limits to how many I can nom at once). Hey man im josh ( talk) 20:46, 10 May 2024 (UTC)
I've started a discussion at the talk page of List of first overall NFL draft picks. I would like to rework the list and get it promoted to featured list status. I'd appreciate any feedback at the discussion on the talk page. Hey man im josh ( talk) 14:02, 14 May 2024 (UTC)
Wikipedia:Move review/Log/2024 May includes two move reviews, one for the NFL Championship Game and one for the AFC Championship Game (which would also include the NFC Championship Game), which may be of interest to project members. Randy Kryn ( talk) 14:46, 15 May 2024 (UTC)
I am really struggling with these "List of XXX players" lists. There are some ( List of Chicago Tigers players) that are difficult to even define as an actual functional article. They are wildly different in format, some of which contend to be a comprehensive list of a team's players ( List of San Francisco 49ers players), some that include additional details about each player ( List of Tampa Bay Buccaneers players) and some that just highlight key players found in other smaller team lists ( List of Chicago Bears players). However, the one thing they all have in common is that they are all wildly out-of-date and likely to continue to be. Unlike basketball (see Portland Trail Blazers all-time roster), NFL team's these days have huge rosters, with easily 60+ players playing at least one game a season. For some older clubs, we are talking about thousands of players, for 32 teams. The task of maintaining a true all-time roster for modern NFL clubs is a monumental, and I would argue, unlikely and pointless endeavor that is more appropriate for Categorization or external sources (such as Pro-Football-Reference). I would also argue that maintaining an all-time roster for NFL teams, considering how large their rosters are and how often players move from team-to-team, falls into WP:NOTSTATS territory.
Thinking this through, I have a proposal for how to address these lists in a way that makes them functional and maintainable:
I know this may seem drastic, but from the perspective of quality, navigability and ease of editor maintenance, this is the simplest and most straightforward solution. It would allow us to standardize the format of these pages and point readers into their likely direction (finding smaller, more defined lists). Think about it, if I would like to know who has played for the Packers, I would either look that person up on Wikipedia or I would go to PFR or some other stat website. I honestly struggle to understand how a page like this, for example List of Jacksonville Jaguars players, could be helpful to a Wikipedia reader, even if it is actively maintained and accurate. Interested to hear everyone's thoughts on this. « Gonzo fan2007 (talk) @ 19:49, 16 May 2024 (UTC)
I stumbled across Billy Shields after some random clicking of Wikilinks, and figured I take a shot at expanding it a bit. However, I've hit a speed bump in the form of a paywall regarding what happened to Shields after being traded by the Chargers to the Vikings before the 1984 season but then being signed by the 49ers after the season began. One guess is that Shields was released by the Vikings without even playing in a game, and then picked up by the Niners. This book, however, seems to suggest that Shields was released by the Chargers and then claimed off waivers by the Niners, which might mean the trade with Minnesota fell through for some reason. Anyway, I think the answer can be found here, but I'm not interested in subscribing to the Washington Post just to access the article. So, I wondering if anyone else has access to the article or perhaps can find an alternative source that can help clarify what happened between the Vikings and Shields. -- Marchjuly ( talk) 07:53, 17 May 2024 (UTC)
San Francisco 49ers -- Signed offensive tackle Billy Shields, 6-8, 280-pound Pro Bowl alternate the past two years. Shields had left the San Diego Chargers in training camp because of a contract dispute. He then was traded to Minnesota, but that deal was voided when Shields and the Vikings could not come to terms. Shields was waived formally by the Chargers last week. To make room for Shields, the 49ers waived center John Macauley.
I did some Googling and found some more stull about Shield's post NFL-career that might be encyclopedically relevant but I'm not sure about it sourcing. The first one is 2012 San Madre CA Patch article which discusses Shield's involvement in a local development project. The article referneces Shields a number of times and referes to him as a former executive VP for a company called Sunrise Senior Living as well as the founder of a LLC called Fountain Square Development. The article isn't exactly flattering per se, and Patch Media doesn't seem to be considered much of a reliable source based on varous discussions found in the WP:RSN archives. Still, this might help lead to other sources for this type of information (like this and this) that can somehow be used. The other item I found is related to a 2012 concusion injury lawsuit filed by a number of former NFL players against the NFL in Pennsylvania. Shields is listed as plaitiff 192 and there's some brief biographical information about him found on page 77. The lawsuit itself is a primary source, but I'm wondering if it's sufficent for supporting content about Shield's wife and his involvement in the lawsuit. -- Marchjuly ( talk) 01:17, 20 May 2024 (UTC)
Asking if we should use the actual names of the ones used in the past (before the 2011 season)
@
Centurion Seraph thinks we should use [[Griese–Brees Quarterback of the Year|Griese–Brees Big Ten Quarterback of the Year]]
and I think we should keep links as simply as possible using [[Griese–Brees Quarterback of the Year]]
according to
WP:NOPIPE and
WP:NOTBROKEN, because the
Tatum–Woodson Defensive Back of the Year (e. g.) redirect to the right section.
No other conferences have awards named after any players, so why add the "Big Ten"? Those links doesn't work ( Griese–Brees Big Ten Quarterback of the Year and Big Ten Quarterback of the Year are red links)
So should we leave out "Big Ten"? Sergio Skol ( talk) 22:22, 19 May 2024 (UTC)
No other conferences have conference awards named after players...: For the record, the Pac-12 has (or had?) the Pat Tillman Defensive Player of the Year.— Bagumba ( talk) 03:57, 20 May 2024 (UTC)
Conference specific awards shouldn't be included otherwise.(responding to @Hey man im josh's comment here due to outdent above): A conference's off or def POY is more exclusive than their 11 or 22 all-conference selections on each side. What's the rationale for excluding them over all-conf? We can drop conference and even national freshman honors.— Bagumba ( talk) 04:10, 20 May 2024 (UTC)
Ohio State star wide receiver Marvin Harrison Jr. was named the Big Ten Graham-George Offensive Player of the Year Wednesday, marking a sixth straight season in which one of the Buckeyes was so recognized.[3]— Bagumba ( talk) 17:33, 22 May 2024 (UTC)