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I notice the recent creation of List of Triple Crown of Motorsport Winners and List of Winners of Triple Crown of Motorsport Races. Do we think this information is useful? And if so, should they be standalone articles, or should the information be merged into Triple Crown of Motorsport? DH85868993 ( talk) 09:27, 19 March 2020 (UTC)
Given that Rich Energy is more notable for their involvement with motorsport, should the template for this project (or WikiProject Formula One) be added to the article's talk page? -- kingboyk ( talk) 01:32, 22 March 2020 (UTC)
I don't agree with the consensus from December 2019 about "one-off entries" being removed because I am interested on where someone finished in that "one-off entry". I think we should start another consensus. NASCARfan0548 ↗ 01:59, 27 March 2020 (UTC)
Would someone involved with this project mind reviewing Draft:Christopher Polvoorde and letting us know if any of the events this subject has participated/won would be notable enough to warrant inclusion on Wikipedia? Greatly appreciated. Sulfurboy ( talk) 03:06, 27 March 2020 (UTC)
There seems to be a lot of inconsistencies regarding the nationality of Louis Zborowski. I've started a discussion at Talk:Louis Zborowski and invite interested editors to comment there. Thanks. A7V2 ( talk) 06:56, 30 March 2020 (UTC)
A discussion has been started at Talk:Patricio O'Ward#Namespace since one user decided to go against WP:COMMONNAME and move the page to an implied namespace. Your opinions are welcome. – Sabbatino ( talk) 14:58, 2 April 2020 (UTC)
Hey all, I hope everyone is safe and healthy. My name is HickoryOughtShirt?4 and I'm a member of WikiProject Ice Hockey. I was wondering if there was any interest in starting a WikiProject Sports channel on Discord? There's quite a few of us who are interested in sports, and I think it would be a good idea to help the WikiProject recruit more members. You guys can join us through here. HickoryOughtShirt?4 ( talk) 00:11, 13 April 2020 (UTC)
I would like to propose that the current DTM/Super GT regulations are included in the current Class 1 Touring Cars article, with the mid-90s cars placed under a "1st Generation" sub-heading and the current cars under a "2nd Generation" sub-heading. Objections? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2001:8003:3C6F:9A00:7CD0:D066:A3F4:3EAC ( talk) 10:03, 24 April 2020 (UTC)
I've noticed something which is, at the very least, quite confusing when it comes to the Fastest Lap in cases where the driver didn't finish in the top 10. This may apply to other years (and maybe F3 too) but in particular looking at 2019 FIA Formula 2 Championship, in the table under Season summary the heading is "Fastest lap", not "Fastest lap points" or "Fastest lap winner" etc, and yet the listed driver is the one who scored points for fastest lap, not the driver who actually got the fastest lap, with a footnote stating the driver who actually got fastest lap didn't finish top 10 so the points went to such and such. If the heading in the table is just "fastest lap" shouldn't this be the other way around? The same goes for individual race articles, eg 2019 Baku FIA Formula 2 round which are actually even more confusing. Here in the race results tables, the driver who actually set fastest lap is listed with a footnote to the driver who scored the points, yet in the infobox it only gives the driver who scored the points with no mention at all of the driver who actually set fastest lap.
I'm not sure which way around things should go but I would probably prefer that the actual fastest lap driver be listed with a footnote if they didn't score a point since this is how motor racing results are generally recorded, but in the case of the infoboxes on race articles since this is a unique infobox specifically for F2 races I think it should be modified to allow for this case and show both in a "nice" way. A7V2 ( talk) 01:46, 27 April 2020 (UTC)
There is an RFC at Talk:2020 World Rally Championship#RfC: Portugal and Chile. Interested editors are free to comment. Unnamelessness ( talk) 09:24, 1 May 2020 (UTC)
World Touring Car Cup (WTCR) might be seen as incarnation of World Touring Car Championship (WTCC). Although, when WTCC adopted TCR rules, each competition (or each incarnation) had its own article. User @ J man708: has copied the list of WTCC winners into World Touring Car Cup championship. I think we shouldn't have duplicate information. I think that either both articles remain as they were before J man708 ( talk · contribs) edits, or we should merge the articles. I bring the discussion tho here so we can reach a consensus regarding this. Rpo.castro ( talk) 09:23, 17 April 2020 (UTC)
This is a fairly common issue (well I believe it's an issue at least) across motorsport articles which I have noticed: often in an article about a given racing season that there will be a table containing a list of winners, pole setters etc, and a link to a race report, but then all or most of those report links are just redirects to the same season article. As an example, see 2017 World Touring Car Championship, 2016 World Touring Car Championship or (from Russia onwards) 2015 World Touring Car Championship. In many cases (Formula One races being a likely exception), things like 2015 FIA WTCC Race of Slovakia are very unlikely search terms, and most readers would navigate from either the season article itself, or possibly from a table on a driver or team's article. This is quite unhelpful to the readers, and I believe having bluelinks rather than redlinks in these sections discourages article creation.
I plan to start nominating these redirects for deletion, but first I think it would be helpful to establish some kind of guideline regarding this. I do understand there are some arguments for making these redirects, especially for future events so as to avoid pointless deletion nominations for articles that will inevitably be recreated, so I propose that any redirects from races to season articles should be deleted once the season is two calendar years old (ie as of now redirects to seasons up to and including 2018 should be deleted, and then for split year seasons I don't know, maybe as of now up to and including 2017-18, and as of July 1 up to and including 2018-19).
I'm interest to know how others feel about this as even if there isn't support for my above proposal (or something along those lines) I still think on a case-by-case basis a lot of these redirects really should be deleted, in particular those mentioned in the first paragraph. Thanks. A7V2 ( talk) 01:49, 1 May 2020 (UTC)
If the redirect could plausibly be expanded into an article, and the target article contains virtually no information on the subject.). However if that rational doesn't apply then it should be kept, for example 2020 6 Hours of Spa-Francorchamps is a very plausible search term, it could be deleted per WP:RfD#D rational 10 after the event happens but know it is acceptable as a redirect.
I've nominated the 2015 WTCC redirects. I invite interested editors to contribute at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2020 May 2#2015 FIA WTCC Race of Russia. A7V2 ( talk) 07:45, 2 May 2020 (UTC)
I've now nominated the 2016 redirects ( Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2020 May 10#2016 FIA WTCC Race of France) since the 2015 ones were deleted without opposition. I will soon nominate the 2017 ones too but it's quite tedious so I can't do it right now. A7V2 ( talk) 08:48, 10 May 2020 (UTC)
I've now also listed the 2017 redirects ( Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2020 May 10#2017 FIA WTCC Race of Morocco). Probably there are other championship articles with these circular redirects but probably best to not clog up this page with them all the time. Not sure where would be best to mention them though. I don't plan to do any more in the immediate future anyway. A7V2 ( talk) 10:01, 10 May 2020 (UTC)
I've noticed that recent years of the Indy 500 articles, eg 2017 Indianapolis 500, use the term "Box Score" rather than "race results" or some other standard term. Plus an inline external link in all capitals. This seems somewhat at odds with MOS, so I was wondering what was going on. - mattbuck ( Talk) 15:44, 21 May 2020 (UTC)
I know I promised no more redirect discussions but this one is more complicated as the redirects were originally articles, and in my opinion they were incorrectly named in the first place. See Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2020 May 28#Euro F3000 Brno to give your view. Thanks. A7V2 ( talk) 02:32, 28 May 2020 (UTC)
It would appear that the 2020 W Series may not take place, but a 10 round e-sports event is to take place. Will leave it to members of this WP to decide what info goes into the article. Mjroots ( talk) 08:53, 30 May 2020 (UTC)
An editor has raised a concern on
Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Motorsport/Formula E#Removal of Double dagger from points columns about the use of notations in race classification tables. Interested editors are welcome to contribute.
SSSB (
talk)
10:34, 3 June 2020 (UTC)
An article on 2020 Formula One pre-season testing was recently created and has been nominated for deletion. You are welcome to contribute to the discussion here. T v x1 14:38, 5 June 2020 (UTC)
The article 2020 Formula E rookie test has been nominated for deletion. Interested parties are welcome to contribute to the discussion here. MWright96 (talk) 19:56, 6 June 2020 (UTC)
I am slowly uploading the results and creating event pages for the IFMAR World Championships. These World Championships typically have been 50 and 120 competitors I have created these pages and included the final results. This shows the size of the event and the truely international nature of it and allows track drivers progression. Having had some discussion with User:82.26.220.45 who disagrees with the full results being included is there a concensus on whether this information should be included he suggested raising it here. See Category:IFMAR 1:10 Electric Off-Road World Championship for the pages created so far. Yachty4000 (talk) 22:51, 7 June 2020 (UTC)
@ Yachty4000:, and 82.26.220.45: I've read most of the discussion above and tend to agree mostly with IP. I should preface by saying that while I know a lot about motorsport (other contributors here are welcome to disagree!), I know little to nothing about RC racing, but you came here looking for a second (third?) opinion... These articles seem to have a lot of issues, for example huge numbers of empty tables in 2015 IFMAR 1:10 Electric Off-Road World Championship – 2WD (these could be commented out in the wikicode if its a work in progress). I'm not going to comment on the notability or suitability of the lower positions, but I think if they are to be included then it is good having it in a separate article to 2015 IFMAR 1:10 Electric Off-Road World Championships as this article would become extremely long if every result was put in. In 2015 IFMAR 1:10 Electric Off-Road World Championships I'm not sure I understand the purpose of putting zero seconds for all of the qualifying times. If these aren't known then they should either be removed, or the columns themselves removed and just keep the final positions. Also the "See Also" section has only links to articles which don't exist, so I will shortly remove them as this is an MOS issue.
1997 IFMAR 1:10 Electric Off-Road World Championships is also in a very poor state. In the "equipment" tables I feel that most of the entries are unlikely to be notable, I would have thought it better to focus on "Car-Motor". If there are any particularly interesting/notable uses of the other items (eg a new type of battery or a controversial tyre compound etc etc etc) then it could go in the prose. Having large numbers of empty columns looks terrible, and as IP points out it makes it difficult to view the article on some devices. As I said before, I don't know if having the full results is really necessary, but definitely it makes the article much larger than it needs to be (after all, the article is basically a 55,906 byte stub). A7V2 ( talk) 02:29, 14 June 2020 (UTC)
There is an ongoing move request at
Talk:2020 FIA Formula 3 Championship#Requested move 23 June 2020 concerning the precense of "FIA" in the article title. Interested editors are welcome to contribute.
SSSB (
talk)
21:11, 26 June 2020 (UTC)
Two questions about 2020–21 Formula E season: 1. Why the article still called 2020-21 season if it wouldn't feature any 2020 races? 2. Why it still contains "season" in the title instead of "Championship"? As far as I remember the consensus was to keep season for the articles which feature non-championship races, while FE clearly doesn't. Corvus tristis ( talk) 02:04, 26 June 2020 (UTC)
I noticed that the articles on ongoing NASCAR and IndyCar seasons included USA broadcaster information in the calendars. The NASCAR Cup series article even had a full table detailing the USA viewership per race. Since no other season articles within WP:MOTOR's purviewscope include this sort of information, in fact not even the previous season's articles of these racing championships include this, I decided to remove that information. However, I was subsequently met with considerable hostility from a pair of WP:NASCAR editors (e.g.
Threatening to report me for "destructive vandalism"). I really thought it wasn't Wikipedia's duty to tell fans where and when they can watch a race and whether they can attend one. Moreover such information has only a really limited usefulness since once the races are over it becomes pointless. Additionally only the US broadcasters were listed. What about all the others who show these races all over the world? I really thought
WP:MOTOR's stance was not include broadcast schedules (let alone a ones exclusive for one country). Am I really that wrong then?
T
v
x1
15:47, 19 June 2020 (UTC)
They shouldn't be there. "The new normal" is an invalid argument per WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS. Thanks Rpo for pointing us to the guideline at least for NASCAR, looks like there should be some other wholesale changes to articles as well. The point about being American-centric is also a good one. The fans allowed category was just straight weird, too. Willsome429 ( say hey or see my edits!) 02:41, 20 June 2020 (UTC)
It turned about to be much worse than I thought. Nearly all of the NASCAR premier class season articles had the US broadcasters in the schedule,often completely unsourced, against WP:NASCAR's own standards. I've removed them now. In the process I stumbled on articles on seasons as far back as 15 years ago still telling our readers things that "will" happen that season. T v x1 16:16, 28 June 2020 (UTC)
I noticed that @ SSSB: recently reverted @ Foxerman: who added a list of broadcasters for UK and USA on some Grand Prix articles such as Monaco Grand Prix. I have myself now been removing similar lists from a few NASCAR and Indycar RACE articles (eg GMR Grand Prix) but I suppose arguably the consensus here only applies to season articles. To be very clear I assume we don't want these lists in any articles (except perhaps specific articles about broadcasting and such, or potentially individual race articles?). I am clearly in favour of removing these. A7V2 ( talk) 00:02, 4 July 2020 (UTC)
@ SSSB:, @ Rpo.castro: - Thanks for your input. I only really asked since while there was a lot of discussion above which pretty much everyone agreed this information should be removed from season articles there wasn't anything specifically about race articles so I wanted to be sure. I will removed more of these sections as I come across them. A7V2 ( talk) 07:36, 4 July 2020 (UTC)
Wow thank you for your service. Wouldn't want to have too much useful information in these articles. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.247.181.169 ( talk) 18:29, 17 July 2020 (UTC)
As has been suggested recently on the 2020 Formula 2 Championship page, the question of how fastest laps should be dealt with. This was actually brought up in April, but not much discussion actually happened then. In Formula 2, Formula 3 and their predecessors, the tables consistently list the driver who scored points for fastest lap and in some cases a note if the driver who actually set the fastest lap finished outside the top ten. This has lead to many drivers receiving the credit of setting the fastest lap on their page (Infobox, career summary & results table), even though they technically only scored the points and did not set the actual fastest lap. Similar has occurred in Formula E although their tables do the opposite and list the fastest lap setter with a note saying who scored the point, which is then reflected in the results table with the points scorer in italics. The question is who should take precedence in the tables - the fastest lap setter or the points scorer. And then how this is reflected on driver pages. Also of note is that Driver Database lists the driver who scored the points for fastest lap as receiving the fastest lap, as can be seen here for Christian Lundgaard. RewF12012 ( talk) 09:39, 20 July 2020 (UTC)
Hi, everyone. Invite you to discussion. Little background of the discussion: I have created templates {{ F1R2020}}, {{ F2R2020}}, {{ F3R2020}}. They allow to update results data in one place, at this moment they may update only if the cell without link to the round article/circuit article which are featured in the tables of the driver articles. There is only one problem, the template with this option becomes more complicated. Would love to see your opinion there if it would be useful for you the option to update all the data at once. I can produce the same templates (and stat templates) for any other series if will be support for this. @ The359, DH16dh, RewF12012, Mario Silvas, and Mcbjmund:, pinging you because I have seen your update edits in my watchlist, sorry if missed someone or you did not want to be disturbed. Corvus tristis ( talk) 06:57, 13 August 2020 (UTC)
According to official FIA supplier of motorsport results - Motorsport Stats, FIA considers the reverse grid poles in GP2/ GP3/ F2/ F3 equal to the saturday poles. So it makes the decision to omit the sunday poles from "Results" table and treat them differently in statistics look like a clear case of WP:NOR. What is your opinion on that matter? Corvus tristis ( talk) 06:44, 26 July 2020 (UTC)
The issue with the second option is that is still probably contradicts with the official stat while with have the only counter-source for this is DriverDB. Maybe somebody have an alternative idea?
P.S. What are you thinking about the A7V2's proposal with the result table?
Corvus tristis (
talk)
16:42, 31 July 2020 (UTC)
Hello all,
I was browsing the notability section for motorsport and I stumbled across this quote.
"A fully professional series is one where prize money is not trivial compared to the cost of the series."
Is there some sort of threshold of prize money a series needs to meet? Is there a list of series that are deemed to be professional? And also, how many races or seasons does a driver need to race for them to be deemed notable? Or does WP:GNG triumph over all here?
Thanks. SmackJam ( talk) 14:38, 28 June 2020 (UTC)
I missed this topic when it originally came up but I figure I'd chime in since I am the editor who originally wrote the lines in question over 10 years ago. My intent was to create a universal guideline to differentiate professional series and amateur series. Ultimately having non-trivial media coverage does matter. If a Bronze driver completes a full season in ELMS, i would say that he does qualify for an article despite being a Bronze driver. However, yes, one off drivers in sports-car series who participate in lower classes or partial-season far-junior formula car drivers likely do not. I think the goal is that we're trying to create a dividing line between a driver someone would actually want to look up and one who is putting up a page just for vanity who likely nobody ever would look up. The fact that there's simply hundreds of classes of auto racing around the world makes it incredibly difficult to create a universal rule but using the general notability guidelines is probably a little too rigid, especially for drivers who competed before the digital age, who likely had non-trival coverage that is now completely lost to time unless you want to spend hours scouring microfilm/fiche. The incident that spurred it was a number of full-time British F3 and Indy Lights drivers were getting AFDed. Anyway, that's where the guideline came from and I'm welcome for suggestions to improve it, but remember that the improvement needs to encompass the entirety of motorsport so it can't be tied to FIA grading for example. Drdisque ( talk) 16:13, 20 August 2020 (UTC)
Is there a precedent for how to disambiguate a racing track (also known as racing circuit)? I see that the article title Meridian Speedway is already taken for a section of railroad track (surprisingly!). The NASCAR West series raced several times at the track in Meridian, Idaho (United States) and I was considering starting an article. Royal broil 00:57, 4 September 2020 (UTC)
Guys, for the past years we had a consensus to remove all the result tables for the series below Euro F3 level because of the lack of notability. User:Sparkle1 is fan of Arthur Leclerc, wants to give as much coverage as possible and to form a new consensus, but he probably doesn't know how to start discussions and only knows the revert button. Is the consensus active or probably we really should include F4 series? Honestly, I don't have any opinion on inclusion and certainly don't need edit war, I just try to respect the consensus, while Sparkle1 doesn't. IMHO, at least it will be good for the inclusion of the results of Formula Renault Eurocup and Formula Regional European Championship which use F3 chassis because Euro F3 no longer exists. Corvus tristis ( talk) 12:47, 30 August 2020 (UTC)
I shall happily participate in this conversation but would far prefer the insensitive and nonsensical accusations to be made on a talk page and not here, that is just attacking the motive of my editing. Sparkle1 ( talk) 14:23, 30 August 2020 (UTC)
An ongoing discussion at the Manual of Style's Accessibility page about results tables might be worth this project's attention. Although it primarily focuses on NASCAR driver tables, universal aspects like the use of small text for finishing results are among the main discussion points. Zappa ⚡ Matic 20:55, 11 September 2020 (UTC)
Hi. Can someone check the Category:French F4 Championship drivers? Because it is not possible to understand championships includes. The description reads: "This category contains drivers who have competed in the F4 Eurocup 1.6, Formula Renault Campus and Formul'Academy Euro Series since 1993", but it has the name of the French F4 Championship and there are some (only a few) drivers from the current F4 FIA regulation. Isn't a subcategory of Category:Formula 4 drivers. Thanks. -- Adriel 00 ( talk) 22:35, 13 September 2020 (UTC)
I'm having trouble figuring out if Draft:Jaylyn Robotham is notable per the sports notability guideline. If it is, I will accept the draft asap. SL93 ( talk) 00:57, 19 September 2020 (UTC)
My knowledge of touring car racing is limited, so hopefully someone with knowledge of the history of the sport can shed some light on this.
I've been trying to research this for a while but have yet to come to a conclusive answer. Bigazzi Team, the notable BMW factory-supported touring car team run by Aldo Bigazzi and Gabriele Rafanelli before moving into sportscars around 1996. Sometime in the 1997-1998 off-season, something occurs and Bigazzi Team stops existing. In its place, we get Team Rafanelli run by Gabriele Rafanelli as a BMW factory-supported team and housed at the same premises at Bigazzi Team. At the same time, Paolo Bigazzi (not sure of the relation to Aldo) founds Scuderia Bigazzi as a small Alfa Romeo team in the Italian touring car ranks. Both teams claim relation to Bigazzi Team, with many news reports and history articles listing Team Rafanelli as a continuation of Bigazzi, while Scuderia Bigazzi themselves refer to Bigazzi Team as part of their history.
So, is Team Rafanelli a continuation of the Bigazzi Team under a new title and new ownership, or should the teams be considered three separate entities? To add to this confusion Gabriele Rafanelli also ran an F3000 team for 1999-2000 under the World Racing Team banner, although I assume they should be counted as part of Team Rafanelli and not a separate entity. And what in the world caused the split amongst Bigazzi and Rafanelli? The359 ( Talk) 20:24, 12 October 2020 (UTC)
An editor has asked for help for
Roman Staněk. Interested editors are welcome to contribute to the discussion at
Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Sports Car Racing#Roman Staněk or help improve the article.
SSSB (
talk)
08:20, 21 October 2020 (UTC)
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 15 | ← | Archive 19 | Archive 20 | Archive 21 | Archive 22 | Archive 23 | → | Archive 25 |
I notice the recent creation of List of Triple Crown of Motorsport Winners and List of Winners of Triple Crown of Motorsport Races. Do we think this information is useful? And if so, should they be standalone articles, or should the information be merged into Triple Crown of Motorsport? DH85868993 ( talk) 09:27, 19 March 2020 (UTC)
Given that Rich Energy is more notable for their involvement with motorsport, should the template for this project (or WikiProject Formula One) be added to the article's talk page? -- kingboyk ( talk) 01:32, 22 March 2020 (UTC)
I don't agree with the consensus from December 2019 about "one-off entries" being removed because I am interested on where someone finished in that "one-off entry". I think we should start another consensus. NASCARfan0548 ↗ 01:59, 27 March 2020 (UTC)
Would someone involved with this project mind reviewing Draft:Christopher Polvoorde and letting us know if any of the events this subject has participated/won would be notable enough to warrant inclusion on Wikipedia? Greatly appreciated. Sulfurboy ( talk) 03:06, 27 March 2020 (UTC)
There seems to be a lot of inconsistencies regarding the nationality of Louis Zborowski. I've started a discussion at Talk:Louis Zborowski and invite interested editors to comment there. Thanks. A7V2 ( talk) 06:56, 30 March 2020 (UTC)
A discussion has been started at Talk:Patricio O'Ward#Namespace since one user decided to go against WP:COMMONNAME and move the page to an implied namespace. Your opinions are welcome. – Sabbatino ( talk) 14:58, 2 April 2020 (UTC)
Hey all, I hope everyone is safe and healthy. My name is HickoryOughtShirt?4 and I'm a member of WikiProject Ice Hockey. I was wondering if there was any interest in starting a WikiProject Sports channel on Discord? There's quite a few of us who are interested in sports, and I think it would be a good idea to help the WikiProject recruit more members. You guys can join us through here. HickoryOughtShirt?4 ( talk) 00:11, 13 April 2020 (UTC)
I would like to propose that the current DTM/Super GT regulations are included in the current Class 1 Touring Cars article, with the mid-90s cars placed under a "1st Generation" sub-heading and the current cars under a "2nd Generation" sub-heading. Objections? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2001:8003:3C6F:9A00:7CD0:D066:A3F4:3EAC ( talk) 10:03, 24 April 2020 (UTC)
I've noticed something which is, at the very least, quite confusing when it comes to the Fastest Lap in cases where the driver didn't finish in the top 10. This may apply to other years (and maybe F3 too) but in particular looking at 2019 FIA Formula 2 Championship, in the table under Season summary the heading is "Fastest lap", not "Fastest lap points" or "Fastest lap winner" etc, and yet the listed driver is the one who scored points for fastest lap, not the driver who actually got the fastest lap, with a footnote stating the driver who actually got fastest lap didn't finish top 10 so the points went to such and such. If the heading in the table is just "fastest lap" shouldn't this be the other way around? The same goes for individual race articles, eg 2019 Baku FIA Formula 2 round which are actually even more confusing. Here in the race results tables, the driver who actually set fastest lap is listed with a footnote to the driver who scored the points, yet in the infobox it only gives the driver who scored the points with no mention at all of the driver who actually set fastest lap.
I'm not sure which way around things should go but I would probably prefer that the actual fastest lap driver be listed with a footnote if they didn't score a point since this is how motor racing results are generally recorded, but in the case of the infoboxes on race articles since this is a unique infobox specifically for F2 races I think it should be modified to allow for this case and show both in a "nice" way. A7V2 ( talk) 01:46, 27 April 2020 (UTC)
There is an RFC at Talk:2020 World Rally Championship#RfC: Portugal and Chile. Interested editors are free to comment. Unnamelessness ( talk) 09:24, 1 May 2020 (UTC)
World Touring Car Cup (WTCR) might be seen as incarnation of World Touring Car Championship (WTCC). Although, when WTCC adopted TCR rules, each competition (or each incarnation) had its own article. User @ J man708: has copied the list of WTCC winners into World Touring Car Cup championship. I think we shouldn't have duplicate information. I think that either both articles remain as they were before J man708 ( talk · contribs) edits, or we should merge the articles. I bring the discussion tho here so we can reach a consensus regarding this. Rpo.castro ( talk) 09:23, 17 April 2020 (UTC)
This is a fairly common issue (well I believe it's an issue at least) across motorsport articles which I have noticed: often in an article about a given racing season that there will be a table containing a list of winners, pole setters etc, and a link to a race report, but then all or most of those report links are just redirects to the same season article. As an example, see 2017 World Touring Car Championship, 2016 World Touring Car Championship or (from Russia onwards) 2015 World Touring Car Championship. In many cases (Formula One races being a likely exception), things like 2015 FIA WTCC Race of Slovakia are very unlikely search terms, and most readers would navigate from either the season article itself, or possibly from a table on a driver or team's article. This is quite unhelpful to the readers, and I believe having bluelinks rather than redlinks in these sections discourages article creation.
I plan to start nominating these redirects for deletion, but first I think it would be helpful to establish some kind of guideline regarding this. I do understand there are some arguments for making these redirects, especially for future events so as to avoid pointless deletion nominations for articles that will inevitably be recreated, so I propose that any redirects from races to season articles should be deleted once the season is two calendar years old (ie as of now redirects to seasons up to and including 2018 should be deleted, and then for split year seasons I don't know, maybe as of now up to and including 2017-18, and as of July 1 up to and including 2018-19).
I'm interest to know how others feel about this as even if there isn't support for my above proposal (or something along those lines) I still think on a case-by-case basis a lot of these redirects really should be deleted, in particular those mentioned in the first paragraph. Thanks. A7V2 ( talk) 01:49, 1 May 2020 (UTC)
If the redirect could plausibly be expanded into an article, and the target article contains virtually no information on the subject.). However if that rational doesn't apply then it should be kept, for example 2020 6 Hours of Spa-Francorchamps is a very plausible search term, it could be deleted per WP:RfD#D rational 10 after the event happens but know it is acceptable as a redirect.
I've nominated the 2015 WTCC redirects. I invite interested editors to contribute at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2020 May 2#2015 FIA WTCC Race of Russia. A7V2 ( talk) 07:45, 2 May 2020 (UTC)
I've now nominated the 2016 redirects ( Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2020 May 10#2016 FIA WTCC Race of France) since the 2015 ones were deleted without opposition. I will soon nominate the 2017 ones too but it's quite tedious so I can't do it right now. A7V2 ( talk) 08:48, 10 May 2020 (UTC)
I've now also listed the 2017 redirects ( Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2020 May 10#2017 FIA WTCC Race of Morocco). Probably there are other championship articles with these circular redirects but probably best to not clog up this page with them all the time. Not sure where would be best to mention them though. I don't plan to do any more in the immediate future anyway. A7V2 ( talk) 10:01, 10 May 2020 (UTC)
I've noticed that recent years of the Indy 500 articles, eg 2017 Indianapolis 500, use the term "Box Score" rather than "race results" or some other standard term. Plus an inline external link in all capitals. This seems somewhat at odds with MOS, so I was wondering what was going on. - mattbuck ( Talk) 15:44, 21 May 2020 (UTC)
I know I promised no more redirect discussions but this one is more complicated as the redirects were originally articles, and in my opinion they were incorrectly named in the first place. See Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2020 May 28#Euro F3000 Brno to give your view. Thanks. A7V2 ( talk) 02:32, 28 May 2020 (UTC)
It would appear that the 2020 W Series may not take place, but a 10 round e-sports event is to take place. Will leave it to members of this WP to decide what info goes into the article. Mjroots ( talk) 08:53, 30 May 2020 (UTC)
An editor has raised a concern on
Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Motorsport/Formula E#Removal of Double dagger from points columns about the use of notations in race classification tables. Interested editors are welcome to contribute.
SSSB (
talk)
10:34, 3 June 2020 (UTC)
An article on 2020 Formula One pre-season testing was recently created and has been nominated for deletion. You are welcome to contribute to the discussion here. T v x1 14:38, 5 June 2020 (UTC)
The article 2020 Formula E rookie test has been nominated for deletion. Interested parties are welcome to contribute to the discussion here. MWright96 (talk) 19:56, 6 June 2020 (UTC)
I am slowly uploading the results and creating event pages for the IFMAR World Championships. These World Championships typically have been 50 and 120 competitors I have created these pages and included the final results. This shows the size of the event and the truely international nature of it and allows track drivers progression. Having had some discussion with User:82.26.220.45 who disagrees with the full results being included is there a concensus on whether this information should be included he suggested raising it here. See Category:IFMAR 1:10 Electric Off-Road World Championship for the pages created so far. Yachty4000 (talk) 22:51, 7 June 2020 (UTC)
@ Yachty4000:, and 82.26.220.45: I've read most of the discussion above and tend to agree mostly with IP. I should preface by saying that while I know a lot about motorsport (other contributors here are welcome to disagree!), I know little to nothing about RC racing, but you came here looking for a second (third?) opinion... These articles seem to have a lot of issues, for example huge numbers of empty tables in 2015 IFMAR 1:10 Electric Off-Road World Championship – 2WD (these could be commented out in the wikicode if its a work in progress). I'm not going to comment on the notability or suitability of the lower positions, but I think if they are to be included then it is good having it in a separate article to 2015 IFMAR 1:10 Electric Off-Road World Championships as this article would become extremely long if every result was put in. In 2015 IFMAR 1:10 Electric Off-Road World Championships I'm not sure I understand the purpose of putting zero seconds for all of the qualifying times. If these aren't known then they should either be removed, or the columns themselves removed and just keep the final positions. Also the "See Also" section has only links to articles which don't exist, so I will shortly remove them as this is an MOS issue.
1997 IFMAR 1:10 Electric Off-Road World Championships is also in a very poor state. In the "equipment" tables I feel that most of the entries are unlikely to be notable, I would have thought it better to focus on "Car-Motor". If there are any particularly interesting/notable uses of the other items (eg a new type of battery or a controversial tyre compound etc etc etc) then it could go in the prose. Having large numbers of empty columns looks terrible, and as IP points out it makes it difficult to view the article on some devices. As I said before, I don't know if having the full results is really necessary, but definitely it makes the article much larger than it needs to be (after all, the article is basically a 55,906 byte stub). A7V2 ( talk) 02:29, 14 June 2020 (UTC)
There is an ongoing move request at
Talk:2020 FIA Formula 3 Championship#Requested move 23 June 2020 concerning the precense of "FIA" in the article title. Interested editors are welcome to contribute.
SSSB (
talk)
21:11, 26 June 2020 (UTC)
Two questions about 2020–21 Formula E season: 1. Why the article still called 2020-21 season if it wouldn't feature any 2020 races? 2. Why it still contains "season" in the title instead of "Championship"? As far as I remember the consensus was to keep season for the articles which feature non-championship races, while FE clearly doesn't. Corvus tristis ( talk) 02:04, 26 June 2020 (UTC)
I noticed that the articles on ongoing NASCAR and IndyCar seasons included USA broadcaster information in the calendars. The NASCAR Cup series article even had a full table detailing the USA viewership per race. Since no other season articles within WP:MOTOR's purviewscope include this sort of information, in fact not even the previous season's articles of these racing championships include this, I decided to remove that information. However, I was subsequently met with considerable hostility from a pair of WP:NASCAR editors (e.g.
Threatening to report me for "destructive vandalism"). I really thought it wasn't Wikipedia's duty to tell fans where and when they can watch a race and whether they can attend one. Moreover such information has only a really limited usefulness since once the races are over it becomes pointless. Additionally only the US broadcasters were listed. What about all the others who show these races all over the world? I really thought
WP:MOTOR's stance was not include broadcast schedules (let alone a ones exclusive for one country). Am I really that wrong then?
T
v
x1
15:47, 19 June 2020 (UTC)
They shouldn't be there. "The new normal" is an invalid argument per WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS. Thanks Rpo for pointing us to the guideline at least for NASCAR, looks like there should be some other wholesale changes to articles as well. The point about being American-centric is also a good one. The fans allowed category was just straight weird, too. Willsome429 ( say hey or see my edits!) 02:41, 20 June 2020 (UTC)
It turned about to be much worse than I thought. Nearly all of the NASCAR premier class season articles had the US broadcasters in the schedule,often completely unsourced, against WP:NASCAR's own standards. I've removed them now. In the process I stumbled on articles on seasons as far back as 15 years ago still telling our readers things that "will" happen that season. T v x1 16:16, 28 June 2020 (UTC)
I noticed that @ SSSB: recently reverted @ Foxerman: who added a list of broadcasters for UK and USA on some Grand Prix articles such as Monaco Grand Prix. I have myself now been removing similar lists from a few NASCAR and Indycar RACE articles (eg GMR Grand Prix) but I suppose arguably the consensus here only applies to season articles. To be very clear I assume we don't want these lists in any articles (except perhaps specific articles about broadcasting and such, or potentially individual race articles?). I am clearly in favour of removing these. A7V2 ( talk) 00:02, 4 July 2020 (UTC)
@ SSSB:, @ Rpo.castro: - Thanks for your input. I only really asked since while there was a lot of discussion above which pretty much everyone agreed this information should be removed from season articles there wasn't anything specifically about race articles so I wanted to be sure. I will removed more of these sections as I come across them. A7V2 ( talk) 07:36, 4 July 2020 (UTC)
Wow thank you for your service. Wouldn't want to have too much useful information in these articles. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.247.181.169 ( talk) 18:29, 17 July 2020 (UTC)
As has been suggested recently on the 2020 Formula 2 Championship page, the question of how fastest laps should be dealt with. This was actually brought up in April, but not much discussion actually happened then. In Formula 2, Formula 3 and their predecessors, the tables consistently list the driver who scored points for fastest lap and in some cases a note if the driver who actually set the fastest lap finished outside the top ten. This has lead to many drivers receiving the credit of setting the fastest lap on their page (Infobox, career summary & results table), even though they technically only scored the points and did not set the actual fastest lap. Similar has occurred in Formula E although their tables do the opposite and list the fastest lap setter with a note saying who scored the point, which is then reflected in the results table with the points scorer in italics. The question is who should take precedence in the tables - the fastest lap setter or the points scorer. And then how this is reflected on driver pages. Also of note is that Driver Database lists the driver who scored the points for fastest lap as receiving the fastest lap, as can be seen here for Christian Lundgaard. RewF12012 ( talk) 09:39, 20 July 2020 (UTC)
Hi, everyone. Invite you to discussion. Little background of the discussion: I have created templates {{ F1R2020}}, {{ F2R2020}}, {{ F3R2020}}. They allow to update results data in one place, at this moment they may update only if the cell without link to the round article/circuit article which are featured in the tables of the driver articles. There is only one problem, the template with this option becomes more complicated. Would love to see your opinion there if it would be useful for you the option to update all the data at once. I can produce the same templates (and stat templates) for any other series if will be support for this. @ The359, DH16dh, RewF12012, Mario Silvas, and Mcbjmund:, pinging you because I have seen your update edits in my watchlist, sorry if missed someone or you did not want to be disturbed. Corvus tristis ( talk) 06:57, 13 August 2020 (UTC)
According to official FIA supplier of motorsport results - Motorsport Stats, FIA considers the reverse grid poles in GP2/ GP3/ F2/ F3 equal to the saturday poles. So it makes the decision to omit the sunday poles from "Results" table and treat them differently in statistics look like a clear case of WP:NOR. What is your opinion on that matter? Corvus tristis ( talk) 06:44, 26 July 2020 (UTC)
The issue with the second option is that is still probably contradicts with the official stat while with have the only counter-source for this is DriverDB. Maybe somebody have an alternative idea?
P.S. What are you thinking about the A7V2's proposal with the result table?
Corvus tristis (
talk)
16:42, 31 July 2020 (UTC)
Hello all,
I was browsing the notability section for motorsport and I stumbled across this quote.
"A fully professional series is one where prize money is not trivial compared to the cost of the series."
Is there some sort of threshold of prize money a series needs to meet? Is there a list of series that are deemed to be professional? And also, how many races or seasons does a driver need to race for them to be deemed notable? Or does WP:GNG triumph over all here?
Thanks. SmackJam ( talk) 14:38, 28 June 2020 (UTC)
I missed this topic when it originally came up but I figure I'd chime in since I am the editor who originally wrote the lines in question over 10 years ago. My intent was to create a universal guideline to differentiate professional series and amateur series. Ultimately having non-trivial media coverage does matter. If a Bronze driver completes a full season in ELMS, i would say that he does qualify for an article despite being a Bronze driver. However, yes, one off drivers in sports-car series who participate in lower classes or partial-season far-junior formula car drivers likely do not. I think the goal is that we're trying to create a dividing line between a driver someone would actually want to look up and one who is putting up a page just for vanity who likely nobody ever would look up. The fact that there's simply hundreds of classes of auto racing around the world makes it incredibly difficult to create a universal rule but using the general notability guidelines is probably a little too rigid, especially for drivers who competed before the digital age, who likely had non-trival coverage that is now completely lost to time unless you want to spend hours scouring microfilm/fiche. The incident that spurred it was a number of full-time British F3 and Indy Lights drivers were getting AFDed. Anyway, that's where the guideline came from and I'm welcome for suggestions to improve it, but remember that the improvement needs to encompass the entirety of motorsport so it can't be tied to FIA grading for example. Drdisque ( talk) 16:13, 20 August 2020 (UTC)
Is there a precedent for how to disambiguate a racing track (also known as racing circuit)? I see that the article title Meridian Speedway is already taken for a section of railroad track (surprisingly!). The NASCAR West series raced several times at the track in Meridian, Idaho (United States) and I was considering starting an article. Royal broil 00:57, 4 September 2020 (UTC)
Guys, for the past years we had a consensus to remove all the result tables for the series below Euro F3 level because of the lack of notability. User:Sparkle1 is fan of Arthur Leclerc, wants to give as much coverage as possible and to form a new consensus, but he probably doesn't know how to start discussions and only knows the revert button. Is the consensus active or probably we really should include F4 series? Honestly, I don't have any opinion on inclusion and certainly don't need edit war, I just try to respect the consensus, while Sparkle1 doesn't. IMHO, at least it will be good for the inclusion of the results of Formula Renault Eurocup and Formula Regional European Championship which use F3 chassis because Euro F3 no longer exists. Corvus tristis ( talk) 12:47, 30 August 2020 (UTC)
I shall happily participate in this conversation but would far prefer the insensitive and nonsensical accusations to be made on a talk page and not here, that is just attacking the motive of my editing. Sparkle1 ( talk) 14:23, 30 August 2020 (UTC)
An ongoing discussion at the Manual of Style's Accessibility page about results tables might be worth this project's attention. Although it primarily focuses on NASCAR driver tables, universal aspects like the use of small text for finishing results are among the main discussion points. Zappa ⚡ Matic 20:55, 11 September 2020 (UTC)
Hi. Can someone check the Category:French F4 Championship drivers? Because it is not possible to understand championships includes. The description reads: "This category contains drivers who have competed in the F4 Eurocup 1.6, Formula Renault Campus and Formul'Academy Euro Series since 1993", but it has the name of the French F4 Championship and there are some (only a few) drivers from the current F4 FIA regulation. Isn't a subcategory of Category:Formula 4 drivers. Thanks. -- Adriel 00 ( talk) 22:35, 13 September 2020 (UTC)
I'm having trouble figuring out if Draft:Jaylyn Robotham is notable per the sports notability guideline. If it is, I will accept the draft asap. SL93 ( talk) 00:57, 19 September 2020 (UTC)
My knowledge of touring car racing is limited, so hopefully someone with knowledge of the history of the sport can shed some light on this.
I've been trying to research this for a while but have yet to come to a conclusive answer. Bigazzi Team, the notable BMW factory-supported touring car team run by Aldo Bigazzi and Gabriele Rafanelli before moving into sportscars around 1996. Sometime in the 1997-1998 off-season, something occurs and Bigazzi Team stops existing. In its place, we get Team Rafanelli run by Gabriele Rafanelli as a BMW factory-supported team and housed at the same premises at Bigazzi Team. At the same time, Paolo Bigazzi (not sure of the relation to Aldo) founds Scuderia Bigazzi as a small Alfa Romeo team in the Italian touring car ranks. Both teams claim relation to Bigazzi Team, with many news reports and history articles listing Team Rafanelli as a continuation of Bigazzi, while Scuderia Bigazzi themselves refer to Bigazzi Team as part of their history.
So, is Team Rafanelli a continuation of the Bigazzi Team under a new title and new ownership, or should the teams be considered three separate entities? To add to this confusion Gabriele Rafanelli also ran an F3000 team for 1999-2000 under the World Racing Team banner, although I assume they should be counted as part of Team Rafanelli and not a separate entity. And what in the world caused the split amongst Bigazzi and Rafanelli? The359 ( Talk) 20:24, 12 October 2020 (UTC)
An editor has asked for help for
Roman Staněk. Interested editors are welcome to contribute to the discussion at
Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Sports Car Racing#Roman Staněk or help improve the article.
SSSB (
talk)
08:20, 21 October 2020 (UTC)