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I have removed [1] from the Biographies section of this project's notability guidelines the sentence "These articles are subject to Wikipedia policy guidance on one-event biographies." (i.e. WP:BLP1E)
Longevity is an attribute or characteristic of a person, not an event. An event is "a thing that happens or takes place" ( OED) or an "occurrence" ( Merriam Webster).
Reaching a great age is not an "event", because it fits neither of those definitions. Longevity is the outcome of a process stretched out over many years. Nobody suddenly becomes very very old one morning; it is a process which happens over decades, and arguably over a whole lifetime.
This can be illustrated by testing these dictionary definitions in sample sentences. For example, it would be absurd to say any of the following:
However, it would make perfect sense to rework those sentences to describe longevity as a process, or as a characteristic of a phase of someone's life, by tying it to era rather than to a point in time:
We could also tie the characteristic of longevity to an event, e.g.
But it simply doesn't make sense to claim that longevity/old age is an "event".
WikiProject guidelines should not try to override broader community guidelines. In this case a project guideline was trying extend the guideline BIO1E by using a definition of "event" unsupported by common usage or by dictionary. -- BrownHairedGirl (talk) • ( contribs) 08:43, 11 December 2018 (UTC)
just an opinion that can go either way depending on consensus in particular discussions, then it should be mentioned in guidelines only as something where editors disagree.
Our use of WP:BIO1E is not wrong, it's just a matter of perspective a number of editors here agree one way on. Even if it is as loose a guideline as you claim (and as above, I strongly disagree), the fact that some of the editors in one project regard it as open to interpretation does not entitle them to claim their choice of interpretation as policy.
Collapsing, imperfectly, at the point where things really start going downhill. We have an opportunity for a fresh start in this topic area after more than a decade of one of the very worst sinkholes of time and energy the English Wikipedia has ever seen. Please let's keep it cool.
Newshunter, it's not OK to say stuff like "Please think very carefully about your continued presence editing in this topic"; BHG, take a little more time to get the feel of all that's going on in this "reboot" (I hate that word), and remember that there's at least one other experienced admin already involved here. E Eng 05:54, 12 December 2018 (UTC) |
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I'm glad you are aware of the DS BrownHairedGirl because you will not be surprised when they are applied to you if your piss poor attitude toward me does not improve. "Longevity" clearly is not a lifelong event. The vast majority of people do not live an extraordinarily long time so their lives are not part of longevity. Longevity is the event of living from age X (say 110) to death. It appears to be an event based mostly dumb luck based on the numbers of super old people drink, smoke and do other unhealthy things. The other very common way to experience the event of being called really old is to to claim a false birthday. Legacypac ( talk) 18:44, 11 December 2018 (UTC)
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A couple of points
Reyk YO! 12:26, 12 December 2018 (UTC)
do, very much, put thought into them(i.e. the AFDs). Having examined about a dozen of your AFDs, I see none of them which meets even the basic requirements of WP:BEFORE. The only one which comes close is the most recent ( AFD:Tuti Yusupova), where you do refer to the sources but give no indication of which sources you evaluated. See my comments there about how your asseement is more declaratory than analytical.
articles uncritically spew bullshit, but when I examined the article under discussion I found that what we actually had was a near-perfect description of an unproven claim. [4]
longevity is not an event, it’s an attributeand their "what is the event" question are the central issues in the use of BIO1E. They deserve substantive consideration. -- BrownHairedGirl (talk) • ( contribs) 04:48, 16 December 2018 (UTC)
I have compiled a summary of the current status of national and continental lists. Status as of 1 December 2018
List | W / M | D / L | R / E | V / U | Total | Nat. | Limit | 110 | 111 | 112 | 113 | 114 | 115 | 116 | 117+ |
---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
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20 / 3 | 22 / 1 | 21 / 2 | 20 / 3 | 23 | 23F+ 3M | All | 12 | 8 | 3 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 |
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32 / 4 | 34 / 2 | 33 / 3 | 31 / 5 [a] | 36 | 29F+ 3M | All | 23 | 8 | 2 | 2 | 0 | 1 | 0 | 0 |
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103 / 4 | 103 / 4 | 102 / 5 | 104 / 3 | 107 | 295 | 100 | 8+ [b] | 42 | 33 | 13 | 9 | 1 | 0 | 1 |
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82 / 9 | 84 / 7 | 71 / 20 | 70 / 21 | 91 | 134 | 100 | 46+ [c] | 25+ [c] | 15 | 3 | 1 | 1 | 0 | 0 |
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106 / 9 | 106 / 9 | 107 / 8 | 109 / 6 | 115 | — | 100 | 39+ [b] | 35 | 24 | 10 | 2 | 3 | 1 | 1 |
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66 / 12 | 76 / 2 | 70 / 8 | 65 / 13 | 78 | 64 | All | 37 | 23 | 8 | 4 | 4 | 1 | 1 | 0 |
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10 / 2 | 12 / 0 | 9 / 3 | 11 / 1 | 12 | 19 | All | 1 | 4 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 1 | 0 | 0 |
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3 / 0 | 2 / 1 | 3 / 0 | 3 / 0 | 3 | 21 | All | 1 | 1 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 |
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14 / 1 | 13 / 2 | 9 / 6 | 5 / 10 | 15 | — | All | 8 | 5 | 0 | 1 | 0 | 1 | 0 | 0 |
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24 / 3 | 25 / 2 | 23 / 4 | 18 / 9 | 27 |
27 68 [d] |
All | 18 | 5 | 3 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 |
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16 / 3 | 19 / 0 | 14 / 5 | 17 / 2 | 19 | 20 | All | 12 | 5 | 2 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 |
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8 / 2 | 10 / 0 | 10 / 0 | 10 / 0 | 10 | 10 | All | 6 | 3 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 |
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113 / 7 | 113 / 7 | 110 / 10 | 110 / 10 | 120 | — | 100 | 28+ [b] | 49 | 20 | 14 | 7 | 2 | 0 | 0 |
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10 / 0 | 9 / 1 | 3 / 7 | 10 / 0 | 10 | — | All | 5 | 2 | 1 | 2 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 |
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54 / 2 | 51 / 5 | 51 / 5 | 55 / 1 | 56 | — | 50+5 | 244+ [e] | 235+ [e] | 115 | 54 | 25 | 11 | 2 | 2 |
Africa | 9 / 1 | 10 / 0 | 3 / 7 | 8 / 2 | 10 | — | All | 2 | 3 | 0 | 3 | 2 | 0 | 0 | 0 |
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74 / 6 | 74 / 6 | 68 / 12 | 65 / 15 | 80 | — | All | 35 | 20 | 13 | 8 | 1 | 2 | 0 | 1 |
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137 / 9 | 103 / 43 | 110 / 10 | 142 / 4 | 146 | — | 100 | 16 [f] | 15+ [f] | 7+ [f] | 44+ [b] | 44 | 13 | 5 | 2 |
Rest of North America | Missing data | 9+ [g] | — | All | Missing data | ||||||||||
South America | 13 / 2 | 12 / 3 | 11 / 4 | 11 / 4 | 15 | — | All | 2 | 4 | 3 | 3 | 2 | 0 | 1 | 0 |
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114 / 8 | 88 / 34 | 120 / 2 | 118 / 4 | 122 | — [h] | 100 | 4+ [i] | 15+ [i] | 25+ [i] [b] | 45 | 23 | 5 | 2 | 3 |
Asia except Japan | 2 / 4 | 4 / 2 | 4 / 2 | 3 / 3 | 6 | — | All | 1 | 2 | 0 | 3 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 |
Oceania | 39 / 3 | 41 / 1 | 42 / 0 | 30 / 12 | 42 | — | All | 18 | 10 | 10 | 3 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 |
Looking at the age distribution, I would suggest the following course of action:
Opinions? — JFG talk 14:59, 5 December 2018 (UTC)
Please see the discussion at Talk:List of Japanese supercentenarians#Emigrants, where I have suggested a solution. — JFG talk 08:13, 7 December 2018 (UTC)
After a few weeks of feedback and pondering, here are my current thoughts:
Enjoy! — JFG talk 10:47, 18 December 2018 (UTC)
The article on Taiwo Olowo seems like it's in this project's wheelhouse to clean up. Pinging Reyk, as he did an excellent job with getting the Habib Miyan disaster somewhat under control. Clearly a notable figure who should have an article, and much of what's there is good, but he has an absolutely outrageous longevity claim which the current article treats this with absolutely no skepticism. Perfect test case for handling some of the more far-fetched longevity claims. The Blade of the Northern Lights ( 話して下さい) 22:38, 17 December 2018 (UTC)
I have merged emigrants into the main national French and Italian lists per consensus, and boldly for Belgian, Danish and Norwegian lists. For other countries, I have opened discussions: American, British, Canadian, German, Spanish Swedish. Any interested editors are invited to participate. — JFG talk 06:38, 18 December 2018 (UTC)
By definition, all Irish supercentenarians were British citizens at birth, before the partition of Ireland in 1921. Please see the merge proposal at Talk:List of British supercentenarians#Merge with Irish list. — JFG talk 22:57, 20 December 2018 (UTC)
All national lists should be based on the person's current nationality.Why? Most emigrants keep their birth citizenship for life, and we have no way to find out for people on our lists. Additionally, in the USA, people with foreign origins tends to call themselves "Italian Americans" or "Chinese Americans", even when they are only second- or third-generation. Anyway, please comment on the merge proposal there. — JFG talk 15:03, 21 December 2018 (UTC)
Interested editors may wish to chime in at Talk:List of Japanese supercentenarians#Remove separate list of living people. — JFG talk 08:12, 24 February 2019 (UTC)
Interested editors may wish to comment on Talk:List of Italian supercentenarians#100 oldest ≠ GRG oldest. — JFG talk 07:14, 6 April 2019 (UTC)
Interested editors may wish to comment on Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of Irish supercentenarians. — JFG talk 06:39, 6 April 2019 (UTC)
And no surprises here. The usual fanfluff, trivia and OR. 16:51, 20 January 2019 (UTC)
I reverted it to a redirect and a minibio. If that's reverted I'd appreciate input on whether to bring it to a broader discussion. The Blade of the Northern Lights ( 話して下さい) 22:55, 1 April 2019 (UTC)
DerbyCountyinNZ ( Talk Contribs) 10:22, 16 April 2019 (UTC)
Right now we have a handful of longevity claims/Longevity myths biographies needing disambiguation. Most of these now just have, for instance, Isaac Brock (supercentenarian), which doesn't seem right since they're not actually verified supercentenarians. One other option is to do something like Henry Jenkins (extreme longevity claimant), though that seems a bit verbose too. I was thinking something like XXXXX XXXX (purported supercentenarian) or something along those lines. Thoughts? The Blade of the Northern Lights ( 話して下さい) 17:24, 16 April 2019 (UTC)
Interested editors may want to participate in Talk:List of Italian supercentenarians#RfC: Defining the 100 known oldest people. — JFG talk 08:59, 1 May 2019 (UTC)
What's the best course of action for the two pages in this category? Setting aside the uselessness of the category, there's no validation of their ages but they don't seem to be in serious dispute. I thought about moving these to the longevity claims category, which would empty the Indian category out and make for an easy C1 deletion. Thoughts? The Blade of the Northern Lights ( 話して下さい) 15:40, 6 May 2019 (UTC)
Editors interested in this project may care to contribute to the latest disagreement about the content of the above article. DerbyCountyinNZ ( Talk Contribs) 00:53, 11 May 2019 (UTC)
Please see Talk:List of the verified oldest people#Lucy Hannah. — JFG talk 13:27, 11 May 2019 (UTC)
I've started a merge discussion proposing a merge of Henry Burling into List of supercentenarians by continent#Supercentenarians in Oceania. See Talk:List of supercentenarians by continent#Merger proposal. The Blade of the Northern Lights ( 話して下さい) 01:50, 21 May 2019 (UTC)
See Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Govindananda Bharati and Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Totapuri. The Blade of the Northern Lights ( 話して下さい) 14:48, 23 April 2019 (UTC)
See Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Draja Mickaharic. Newshunter12 ( talk) 23:53, 27 April 2019 (UTC)
Also see Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Noah Raby (2nd nomination). The Blade of the Northern Lights ( 話して下さい) 15:31, 9 May 2019 (UTC)
After the success of Talk:List of Italian supercentenarians#RfC: Defining the 100 known oldest people, I have opened similar RfCs for Canada, France, Germany and Spain. Feel free to weigh in. Hopefully a firm consensus on sourcing will be established across the project. — JFG talk 09:37, 8 June 2019 (UTC)
Doesn't it seem a bit awkward that individual country lists are allowed 100 entries each, continent lists 50 entries each, and world lists back to 100 entries? I'm proposing this: country lists be limited to 25 entries each with a minimum inclusion age of 112, continent lists be expanded to 75 entries each with no age limit, and the world lists stay at 100 with no age limit. Country lists that don't have a SC count high enough to fill a 25 person article are deleted. Wikipedia is not a directory of old people and it is long overdue that it stops being a free webhost for GRG data. This plan would mean only the US, UK, Canada, Italy, France, and Japan would continue to have individual articles.
Notability doesn't fade, but all of these various lists were built around the GRG's verification data and they used to try to validate any claim they got. There was/is nothing notable about being on their lists. Lets face it: being 110 or 111 isn't in itself notable anymore and individual country lists have a lot more to do with nationalism then building a thorough encyclopedia, which is why there is such a discrepancy in how well maintained or not individual country articles are or what policies get enforced where.
Would an RfC(s) to establish these inclusion policies and then a group AfD of impacted articles be the best way to implement this plan? Community input is most welcome. Newshunter12 ( talk) 00:17, 12 May 2019 (UTC)
What do people here think about mixing oldest pet records in with human longevity claims? My thought is that such things should be their own separate categories or lists (something like Category:Longevity in pets or something like that, people who know categories better can probably find a better idea). Also, the category description certainly doesn't say anything about non-humans. There are enough of them currently in there, though, that just removing them without discussion could be controversial, so input is appreciated. The Blade of the Northern Lights ( 話して下さい) 23:00, 4 June 2019 (UTC)
The article on Gustav Gerneth was merged into List of German supercentenarians following an AfD and a merge discussion. The merge was then reverted, so that further discussion is needed. — JFG talk 08:17, 18 June 2019 (UTC)
See Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of oldest twins (2nd nomination). — JFG talk 09:53, 29 May 2019 (UTC)
The Cormac O Comáin discussion was relisted, and the Bernando LaPallo RfD is still open. I also just started WP:Articles for deletion/Fulla Nayak (2nd nomination). I think we're finally getting close to clearing everything out; once these discussions settle down I have a couple merge proposals, and possibly another couple AfDs, but I don't want to overwhelm the processes here. The Blade of the Northern Lights ( 話して下さい) 18:45, 16 June 2019 (UTC)
Look what's back: List of people in long marriages. DerbyCountyinNZ ( Talk Contribs) 04:54, 24 June 2019 (UTC)
There is currently an ongoing discussion and vote about whether or not there is an age dispute surrounding Jeanne Calment worth mentioning on the List of the verified oldest people. All interested editors can join the discussion here: Talk:List of the verified oldest people. Newshunter12 ( talk) 07:50, 4 July 2019 (UTC)
Further editor input is needed at Talk:List of American supercentenarians#Maggie Kidd. — JFG talk 15:13, 10 May 2019 (UTC)
There is currently an ongoing RfC at Talk:List of Italian supercentenarians#RfC: List of 20 vs. list of 100 to decide if the list should enumerate the 20 oldest Italians or the 100 oldest Italians. All interested editors can join the discussion there. Newshunter12 ( talk) 03:12, 11 July 2019 (UTC)
The recent death of Maria Giuseppa Robucci prompted the creation of a mostly-empty article. See Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Maria Giuseppa Robucci. — JFG talk 23:24, 11 July 2019 (UTC)
Are GRG photo galleries, such as those found here considered reliable sources for determining place of birth and death? The question has come up in this revert, where it was asserted that they're not RS. These specific sources doesn't appear to have been evaluated per a scan of WP:RSN and the old WP:WOP. I'm inclined to take this to RSN, but I want to know first if any previous ruling has been made about it. @ Newshunter12 may want in on this. schetm ( talk) 03:08, 12 July 2019 (UTC)
See Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/William Coates (longevity claimant) (2nd nomination). — JFG talk 11:29, 16 July 2019 (UTC)
I just reverted an editor by the name of DanielNavott on List of the oldest living people, who made a seemingly "helpful" edit according to his edit summary, but actually obviously screwed up the table. Looking at their few edits on other pages, it seems to me like they are engaged in slow-motion plausibly-deniable vandalism on various pages (ex. altering wording in unhelpful ways). Does anyone else agree or do their other edits seem constructive to you? Can an admin get on this? Newshunter12 ( talk) 06:05, 19 July 2019 (UTC)
There is currently an ongoing discussion at Talk:List of the verified oldest people#Long term dilemma with the Men's list to decide what option might be the best way to handle the fact that GRG validations of male SC's are functionally extinct, given the last was in May 2018, and the ramifications this has on the list of 100 verified oldest men. Newshunter12 ( talk) 06:44, 20 July 2019 (UTC)
Per the article, she's eminently notable, which is certainly a nice change of pace. What do people here make of her age? I can't find anything on the GRG about her, and while the sources are generally in agreement about birth/death they also have contradictory information about things like when she married (for instance, one says she married at 43, which would have been enormously unusual). Seems like a decent test case for how to handle non-GRG validated ages. The Blade of the Northern Lights ( 話して下さい) 16:55, 13 July 2019 (UTC)
Those seem to be the ones with the most unique material. I may some articles stored offline if anyone wants to email, but most are of the "Mother Berry's annual birthday" type and are pretty repetitive. I think most of the unique ones are either in the article or posted here. So, whatever folks want to do, this is what I've got. If people can find more stuff, that would be cool. My newspapers.com subscription expired. Montanabw (talk) 23:30, 17 July 2019 (UTC)
{{
cite news}}
: CS1 maint: extra punctuation (
link) ), and the Trove website might throw out another story
https://trove.nla.gov.au/result?q=female+jockey Nice article, I'm guessing the age is a furphy.
cygnis insignis
02:12, 18 July 2019 (UTC)
Just a heads up: I have reverted edits made to List of British supercentenarians and List of the verified oldest people over the final age of Alf Smith of Scotland. Multiple major reliable sources, such as this and this state Mr. Smith died on the evening of Saturday, August 3rd. I counted the days on a calendar since his last birthday to double check and it comes to 127. The 128 number being repeated by some media often still saying he died on Saturday is because a local official tweeted Smith died at 111 years and 128 days old. He was wrong though, as any calendar will tell you, if what the BBC said is true: "The former lorry driver and farmer, from St Madoes, Perthshire, died on Saturday night." Please help keep an eye on these articles, as this probably won't be the last time a well meaning editor changes articles based on this apparent media error. Oldest in Britain states he died on the 4th and given their fan club, it seems a forgone conclusion this issue is not over. Newshunter12 ( talk) 17:20, 4 August 2019 (UTC)
Project members might like to have a look at the edit history of the above article. DerbyCountyinNZ ( Talk Contribs) 18:43, 1 August 2019 (UTC)
The article Virginia McLaurin has been nominated for deletion. Interested editors can join the ongoing discussion at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Virginia McLaurin. Newshunter12 ( talk) 18:26, 9 August 2019 (UTC)
Just a general question to this project: Is there a category or list on Wikipedia of (verified) people who lived in three different centuries (eg. Emma Morano who lived in the 19th, 20th and 21st Century), and is there an offical term for such a person (eg. Triple-centurian)? Calistemon ( talk) 15:36, 30 August 2019 (UTC)
Guys, the questioner was likely asking a sincere question, not looking to make troublesome edits. You really shouldn't give snarky answers to seemingly sincere questions. This is a WikiProject. We should expect to receive general questions about longevity here. Randykitty, as an admin, you especially should know better and should make a better effort to answer good-faith questions in kind, striving to "model appropriate standards of courtesy and civility to other editors." Consider this your WP:TROUTing. Calistemon, I apologize for my colleagues' incivility. To answer your question, I'm not aware of any specific term for the specific instances you mention. schetm ( talk) 06:35, 4 September 2019 (UTC)
This should be nipped in the bud before it spawns others... DerbyCountyinNZ ( Talk Contribs) 10:39, 1 September 2019 (UTC)
Hello and greetings from the maintainers of the WP 1.0 Bot! As you may or may not know, we are currently involved in an overhaul of the bot, in order to make it more modern and maintainable. As part of this process, we will be rewriting the web tool that is part of the project. You might have noticed this tool if you click through the links on the project assessment summary tables.
We'd like to collect information on how the current tool is used by....you! How do you yourself and the other maintainers of your project use the web tool? Which of its features do you need? How frequently do you use these features? And what features is the tool missing that would be useful to you? We have collected all of these questions at this Google form where you can leave your response. Walkerma ( talk) 04:24, 27 October 2019 (UTC)
Another recreation of a deleted article. Speedy deletion tag removed, IMO inappropriately. DerbyCountyinNZ ( Talk Contribs) 02:33, 10 November 2019 (UTC)
There is an ongoing discussion at Talk:List of the oldest living people regarding the size of the article's list. Interested editors may join the discussion there. Newshunter12 ( talk) 21:14, 1 February 2020 (UTC)
Editors are invited to comment at Talk:List of the verified oldest people#RfC on sourcing. — JFG talk 08:23, 23 February 2020 (UTC)
Editors may be interested in joining the discussion at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Sophia De Muth as it relates to this topic area. Newshunter12 ( talk) 05:36, 7 July 2020 (UTC)
I don't have the time right now to nominate for AfD or RfD, but will try to begin processing these soon. In the meantime, any are welcome to create their own nomination or provide evidence why they should remain as is before I do so.
Laura Scales Not finding sources on this woman and all those in the article are affiliated with her employer or are self-published materials.
Jones Morgan All sources self-published, except one print newspaper source we don't have access to and possibly doesn't actually exist. Found a brief obit here.
Peter Mills (enslaved person) Recently created, with two print sources that can't be reviewed. Not finding any coverage.
Helen Stetter is a redirect to nowhere, as she is no longer old enough to appear on List of American supercentenarians.
Alexina Calvert is a redirect to nowhere, as she is no longer old enough to appear on List of British supercentenarians.
Nijiro Tokuda is a redirect to nowhere, as he is no longer old enough to appear on List of the verified oldest people or List of Japanese supercentenarians.
Dumitru Comănescu does not appear on Oldest people, never had an article, and was only recently created as a redirect. His 59th place entry on the men's list at List of the verified oldest people does not warrant a redirect.
Erminia Bianchini Recently created redirect of deceased woman briefly oldest living person in Italy at slightly 112+. Newshunter12 ( talk) 07:09, 7 July 2020 (UTC)
As I don't read Polish, and I'm not familiar with the notability guidelines for clergy, I'm unsure about this. Not nominating it for AfD just yet, but I'm unclear on exactly what she personally would be notable for. I see she got some recognition for being part of an organization involved in the Jewish resistance during WWII, and that she got recognition in Kraków media for reaching 110, but that seems to be it. The Polish article on her is actually even shorter and has 2/3 the sourcing. But since this is definitely more substantive than the typical "born, lived an unusually long time, shuffled off the mortal coil", thought this was worth mentioning here; if she is actually notable, I'd happily add some new material to the article too. (Also, although it was previously deleted per G5, another user in good standing restored it and did some work on it, so that criterion isn't applicable) The Blade of the Northern Lights ( 話して下さい) 19:25, 21 January 2020 (UTC)
Nominated for deletion at WP:Articles for deletion/Maria Roszak (2nd nomination). The Blade of the Northern Lights ( 話して下さい) 18:47, 23 August 2020 (UTC)
See Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Fredie Blom. The Blade of the Northern Lights ( 話して下さい) 17:27, 3 September 2020 (UTC)
This thread is currently at an impasse. Please contribute to the discussion so that WP:CONSENSUS can be reached. DerbyCountyinNZ ( Talk Contribs) 07:20, 29 October 2020 (UTC)
Another non-notable longevity claimant up for deletion: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Francisca Susano. DerbyCountyinNZ ( Talk Contribs) 02:26, 3 December 2020 (UTC)
Hester Ford is the oldest living person in the United States following the death of Alelia Murphy on November 23, 2019. Based on my minimal research so far, it looks like thats the only major thing she is well known for (her age). As I don't know much about the guidlines/rules regarding a seperate article for a person who has lived a long time, is Hester Ford noteable enough to deserve her own article? If not, where should I merge some of the articles information?
Recreated and returned to AfD. Courtesy link for interested editors. Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Hester Ford (2nd nomination) StarM 23:33, 14 December 2020 (UTC)
The article has been re-created and speedy delete contested on her talk page (for the usual longevity fanfluff reasons). I see no content in the current article which demonstrates more notability than the previously (unanimously) deleted article. I don't have time this weekend to do the Afd so will get around to it next week if no-one else gets to it first. DerbyCountyinNZ ( Talk Contribs) 22:00, 11 December 2020 (UTC)
There are nearly two dozen supercentenarian lists, primarily consisting the suite of " oldest by country" lists. These sprawling lists of people overwhelmingly lacking any lasting notability are of dubious value as is, and are prone to lapses in entry quality standards or being a walled garden. A long-term solution would be a way to centralize a reduced data set into several lists.
I propose this: Keep Oldest people, List of the oldest living people, and List of the verified oldest people as they are; merge all country lists into an expanded List of the oldest people by country that allows say 5 women and men per country (number negotiable), and convert the various List of supercentenarians by continent lists into 75-100 strong lists of the oldest from those continents, instead of the present Asia (but without Japan!) or North America (without the United States or Canada!) business.
This would accomplish many positive changes. It would be easier to maintain the lists, eliminate the "Notable supercentenarians from other Asian countries" list that includes seven men and one woman that doesn't remotely reflect real-world SC statistics, eliminate entry cruft (ex. Maria Schmitz F 27 August 1886 22 October 1996 110 years, 56 days Rhineland North Rhine-Westphalia), and defuse the time-bomb of allowing 100-strong lists of the oldest people from every country on Earth.
Would the community support such a proposal to keep the best, most notable content, in a more centralized organized fashion and do away with the rest? Pinging @ TFBCT1, who is not a member of this project, but who has done more then any other to maintain the various supercentenarian lists for over a decade. Newshunter12 ( talk) 03:21, 2 November 2020 (UTC)
I have nominated the Lucy Hannah redirect for deletion because there is no longer any content about this person on the target page List of American supercentenarians. Please comment at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2020 December 29#Lucy Hannah. — JFG talk 23:04, 30 December 2020 (UTC)
Anyone still interested in this project may care to contribute to the latest dispute in this article. DerbyCountyinNZ ( Talk Contribs) 10:35, 14 January 2021 (UTC)
If I write articles titled "List of Oldest Sardinians," "List of Oldest Icarians," etc, would these articles meet WP:N? The majority of Wikipedia lists related to longevity are based on nation states (ex. List of American supercentenarians); however, it seems to me that there is particular interest in Blue Zones and their relationship to longevity. These lists would thus be regionally-focused as opposed to nationally-focused. I am asking here because I do not want to go through the work of creating the pages if they will ultimately be deleted for not meeting notability. Thanks GreenVolvox ( talk) 22:46, 22 August 2020 (UTC)
Anyone here with an understanding of the Chinese language willing to conduct additional research to see if any of these 110+ individuals can be added to the various longevity lists? The oldest, Xu Senzhen (徐素珍), is well over 113, but sadly, this source seems to only report birth years and months, not including days, which isn't enough to add them. Newshunter12 ( talk) 03:41, 31 January 2021 (UTC)
There's someone at that article arguing there's no actual dispute over the age of Silas Simmons. Input would be welcome. The Blade of the Northern Lights ( 話して下さい) 04:26, 20 January 2021 (UTC)
Does anyone else think List of the last surviving American slaves should be sent to AfD? Not only is the topic obscured by the fact that most black Americans in those days didn't know how old they were and no records were kept, how many fanfluff slices of life on Earth ( List of last surviving veterans of military operations, List of long marriages, List of oldest living state leaders, List of surviving veterans of the Spanish Civil War, List of last survivors of historical events, List of notable surviving veterans of World War II) are we going to allow? The problem is clearly continuing to metastasize. Newshunter12 ( talk) 18:24, 11 February 2021 (UTC)
See Talk:Habib Miyan#Redirection. Years ago I boldly redirected this article to a targeted section on Longevity myths, someone reverted. Input there would be welcome. The Blade of the Northern Lights ( 話して下さい) 16:43, 17 May 2021 (UTC)
E.g.: List of the oldest people by country
In addition, people listed on the page above are not the oldest listed in their respective country pages, e.g. Supercentenarians from Portugal (not to mention wp:overlinked countries, deprecated HTML tags and table wp:accessibility noncompliance, i.e. MOS:DTAB). I fixed all that, and fellow editors ( Bart Versieck [9], TFBCT1 [2]) have thanked me for it, but a couple others are adamant about keeping them broken. Any suggestions?
Here are my revisions they reverted:
— Guarapiranga ☎ 22:28, 28 July 2021 (UTC)
Who also anointed you to suddenly and without any prior discussion, dramatically change the entire suite of longevity articles?
prior", edit and reversion steps ( WP:BRD).Now to answer your main question:
Why is an entire country of birth tab needed when in 95% of cases, it's an exact data duplication to what exists now?
United Kingdom (more) Charlotte Hughes[59] F 1 Aug 1877 17 Mar 1993 115 years, 228 days England England Annie Jennings[59] F 12 Nov 1884 20 Nov 1999 115 years, 8 days England England Eva Morris[59] F 8 Nov 1885 2 Nov 2000 114 years, 360 days England England
United States (more) Sarah Knauss[43] F September 24, 1880 December 30, 1999 119 years, 97 days Pennsylvania Pennsylvania Susannah Mushatt Jones[60] F July 6, 1899 May 12, 2016 116 years, 311 days Alabama New York Gertrude Weaver[60] F July 4, 1898 April 6, 2015 116 years, 276 days Arkansas Arkansas Extremely sexy ( talk) 03:18, 29 July 2021 (UTC)
For that to work, the tables need to have the same columns (see how in List of oldest people by country it is now pulling the top 3 oldest supercentenarians from the US, UK and Portugal, which in the latter case was previously only showing two, the second of which wasn't even in the top 5!That is because the second entry for Portugal was the country's oldest man, not a failed attempt to have the top two oldest people. Dramatically changing articles, including the scope of nearly every article, such as the above example, should have been done with prior consensus. The same with adding seas of red links and changing the entire coding structure of some articles. The above example shows you do not even understand how these articles worked, yet you waltzed into a topic area you had hitherto contributed nothing to, and took a hatchet to everything in sight (three rounds of mass re-naming the same articles and counting, among so much other damage). Newshunter12 ( talk) 03:30, 29 July 2021 (UTC)
There's a discussion going on at Talk:List of the oldest people by country concerning this topic. Renewal6 ( talk) 11:59, 5 November 2021 (UTC)
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 | Archive 3 |
I have removed [1] from the Biographies section of this project's notability guidelines the sentence "These articles are subject to Wikipedia policy guidance on one-event biographies." (i.e. WP:BLP1E)
Longevity is an attribute or characteristic of a person, not an event. An event is "a thing that happens or takes place" ( OED) or an "occurrence" ( Merriam Webster).
Reaching a great age is not an "event", because it fits neither of those definitions. Longevity is the outcome of a process stretched out over many years. Nobody suddenly becomes very very old one morning; it is a process which happens over decades, and arguably over a whole lifetime.
This can be illustrated by testing these dictionary definitions in sample sentences. For example, it would be absurd to say any of the following:
However, it would make perfect sense to rework those sentences to describe longevity as a process, or as a characteristic of a phase of someone's life, by tying it to era rather than to a point in time:
We could also tie the characteristic of longevity to an event, e.g.
But it simply doesn't make sense to claim that longevity/old age is an "event".
WikiProject guidelines should not try to override broader community guidelines. In this case a project guideline was trying extend the guideline BIO1E by using a definition of "event" unsupported by common usage or by dictionary. -- BrownHairedGirl (talk) • ( contribs) 08:43, 11 December 2018 (UTC)
just an opinion that can go either way depending on consensus in particular discussions, then it should be mentioned in guidelines only as something where editors disagree.
Our use of WP:BIO1E is not wrong, it's just a matter of perspective a number of editors here agree one way on. Even if it is as loose a guideline as you claim (and as above, I strongly disagree), the fact that some of the editors in one project regard it as open to interpretation does not entitle them to claim their choice of interpretation as policy.
Collapsing, imperfectly, at the point where things really start going downhill. We have an opportunity for a fresh start in this topic area after more than a decade of one of the very worst sinkholes of time and energy the English Wikipedia has ever seen. Please let's keep it cool.
Newshunter, it's not OK to say stuff like "Please think very carefully about your continued presence editing in this topic"; BHG, take a little more time to get the feel of all that's going on in this "reboot" (I hate that word), and remember that there's at least one other experienced admin already involved here. E Eng 05:54, 12 December 2018 (UTC) |
---|
I'm glad you are aware of the DS BrownHairedGirl because you will not be surprised when they are applied to you if your piss poor attitude toward me does not improve. "Longevity" clearly is not a lifelong event. The vast majority of people do not live an extraordinarily long time so their lives are not part of longevity. Longevity is the event of living from age X (say 110) to death. It appears to be an event based mostly dumb luck based on the numbers of super old people drink, smoke and do other unhealthy things. The other very common way to experience the event of being called really old is to to claim a false birthday. Legacypac ( talk) 18:44, 11 December 2018 (UTC)
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A couple of points
Reyk YO! 12:26, 12 December 2018 (UTC)
do, very much, put thought into them(i.e. the AFDs). Having examined about a dozen of your AFDs, I see none of them which meets even the basic requirements of WP:BEFORE. The only one which comes close is the most recent ( AFD:Tuti Yusupova), where you do refer to the sources but give no indication of which sources you evaluated. See my comments there about how your asseement is more declaratory than analytical.
articles uncritically spew bullshit, but when I examined the article under discussion I found that what we actually had was a near-perfect description of an unproven claim. [4]
longevity is not an event, it’s an attributeand their "what is the event" question are the central issues in the use of BIO1E. They deserve substantive consideration. -- BrownHairedGirl (talk) • ( contribs) 04:48, 16 December 2018 (UTC)
I have compiled a summary of the current status of national and continental lists. Status as of 1 December 2018
List | W / M | D / L | R / E | V / U | Total | Nat. | Limit | 110 | 111 | 112 | 113 | 114 | 115 | 116 | 117+ |
---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
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20 / 3 | 22 / 1 | 21 / 2 | 20 / 3 | 23 | 23F+ 3M | All | 12 | 8 | 3 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 |
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32 / 4 | 34 / 2 | 33 / 3 | 31 / 5 [a] | 36 | 29F+ 3M | All | 23 | 8 | 2 | 2 | 0 | 1 | 0 | 0 |
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103 / 4 | 103 / 4 | 102 / 5 | 104 / 3 | 107 | 295 | 100 | 8+ [b] | 42 | 33 | 13 | 9 | 1 | 0 | 1 |
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82 / 9 | 84 / 7 | 71 / 20 | 70 / 21 | 91 | 134 | 100 | 46+ [c] | 25+ [c] | 15 | 3 | 1 | 1 | 0 | 0 |
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106 / 9 | 106 / 9 | 107 / 8 | 109 / 6 | 115 | — | 100 | 39+ [b] | 35 | 24 | 10 | 2 | 3 | 1 | 1 |
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66 / 12 | 76 / 2 | 70 / 8 | 65 / 13 | 78 | 64 | All | 37 | 23 | 8 | 4 | 4 | 1 | 1 | 0 |
![]() |
10 / 2 | 12 / 0 | 9 / 3 | 11 / 1 | 12 | 19 | All | 1 | 4 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 1 | 0 | 0 |
![]() |
3 / 0 | 2 / 1 | 3 / 0 | 3 / 0 | 3 | 21 | All | 1 | 1 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 |
![]() |
14 / 1 | 13 / 2 | 9 / 6 | 5 / 10 | 15 | — | All | 8 | 5 | 0 | 1 | 0 | 1 | 0 | 0 |
![]() |
24 / 3 | 25 / 2 | 23 / 4 | 18 / 9 | 27 |
27 68 [d] |
All | 18 | 5 | 3 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 |
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16 / 3 | 19 / 0 | 14 / 5 | 17 / 2 | 19 | 20 | All | 12 | 5 | 2 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 |
![]() |
8 / 2 | 10 / 0 | 10 / 0 | 10 / 0 | 10 | 10 | All | 6 | 3 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 |
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113 / 7 | 113 / 7 | 110 / 10 | 110 / 10 | 120 | — | 100 | 28+ [b] | 49 | 20 | 14 | 7 | 2 | 0 | 0 |
![]() |
10 / 0 | 9 / 1 | 3 / 7 | 10 / 0 | 10 | — | All | 5 | 2 | 1 | 2 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 |
![]() |
54 / 2 | 51 / 5 | 51 / 5 | 55 / 1 | 56 | — | 50+5 | 244+ [e] | 235+ [e] | 115 | 54 | 25 | 11 | 2 | 2 |
Africa | 9 / 1 | 10 / 0 | 3 / 7 | 8 / 2 | 10 | — | All | 2 | 3 | 0 | 3 | 2 | 0 | 0 | 0 |
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74 / 6 | 74 / 6 | 68 / 12 | 65 / 15 | 80 | — | All | 35 | 20 | 13 | 8 | 1 | 2 | 0 | 1 |
![]() |
137 / 9 | 103 / 43 | 110 / 10 | 142 / 4 | 146 | — | 100 | 16 [f] | 15+ [f] | 7+ [f] | 44+ [b] | 44 | 13 | 5 | 2 |
Rest of North America | Missing data | 9+ [g] | — | All | Missing data | ||||||||||
South America | 13 / 2 | 12 / 3 | 11 / 4 | 11 / 4 | 15 | — | All | 2 | 4 | 3 | 3 | 2 | 0 | 1 | 0 |
![]() |
114 / 8 | 88 / 34 | 120 / 2 | 118 / 4 | 122 | — [h] | 100 | 4+ [i] | 15+ [i] | 25+ [i] [b] | 45 | 23 | 5 | 2 | 3 |
Asia except Japan | 2 / 4 | 4 / 2 | 4 / 2 | 3 / 3 | 6 | — | All | 1 | 2 | 0 | 3 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 |
Oceania | 39 / 3 | 41 / 1 | 42 / 0 | 30 / 12 | 42 | — | All | 18 | 10 | 10 | 3 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 |
Looking at the age distribution, I would suggest the following course of action:
Opinions? — JFG talk 14:59, 5 December 2018 (UTC)
Please see the discussion at Talk:List of Japanese supercentenarians#Emigrants, where I have suggested a solution. — JFG talk 08:13, 7 December 2018 (UTC)
After a few weeks of feedback and pondering, here are my current thoughts:
Enjoy! — JFG talk 10:47, 18 December 2018 (UTC)
The article on Taiwo Olowo seems like it's in this project's wheelhouse to clean up. Pinging Reyk, as he did an excellent job with getting the Habib Miyan disaster somewhat under control. Clearly a notable figure who should have an article, and much of what's there is good, but he has an absolutely outrageous longevity claim which the current article treats this with absolutely no skepticism. Perfect test case for handling some of the more far-fetched longevity claims. The Blade of the Northern Lights ( 話して下さい) 22:38, 17 December 2018 (UTC)
I have merged emigrants into the main national French and Italian lists per consensus, and boldly for Belgian, Danish and Norwegian lists. For other countries, I have opened discussions: American, British, Canadian, German, Spanish Swedish. Any interested editors are invited to participate. — JFG talk 06:38, 18 December 2018 (UTC)
By definition, all Irish supercentenarians were British citizens at birth, before the partition of Ireland in 1921. Please see the merge proposal at Talk:List of British supercentenarians#Merge with Irish list. — JFG talk 22:57, 20 December 2018 (UTC)
All national lists should be based on the person's current nationality.Why? Most emigrants keep their birth citizenship for life, and we have no way to find out for people on our lists. Additionally, in the USA, people with foreign origins tends to call themselves "Italian Americans" or "Chinese Americans", even when they are only second- or third-generation. Anyway, please comment on the merge proposal there. — JFG talk 15:03, 21 December 2018 (UTC)
Interested editors may wish to chime in at Talk:List of Japanese supercentenarians#Remove separate list of living people. — JFG talk 08:12, 24 February 2019 (UTC)
Interested editors may wish to comment on Talk:List of Italian supercentenarians#100 oldest ≠ GRG oldest. — JFG talk 07:14, 6 April 2019 (UTC)
Interested editors may wish to comment on Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of Irish supercentenarians. — JFG talk 06:39, 6 April 2019 (UTC)
And no surprises here. The usual fanfluff, trivia and OR. 16:51, 20 January 2019 (UTC)
I reverted it to a redirect and a minibio. If that's reverted I'd appreciate input on whether to bring it to a broader discussion. The Blade of the Northern Lights ( 話して下さい) 22:55, 1 April 2019 (UTC)
DerbyCountyinNZ ( Talk Contribs) 10:22, 16 April 2019 (UTC)
Right now we have a handful of longevity claims/Longevity myths biographies needing disambiguation. Most of these now just have, for instance, Isaac Brock (supercentenarian), which doesn't seem right since they're not actually verified supercentenarians. One other option is to do something like Henry Jenkins (extreme longevity claimant), though that seems a bit verbose too. I was thinking something like XXXXX XXXX (purported supercentenarian) or something along those lines. Thoughts? The Blade of the Northern Lights ( 話して下さい) 17:24, 16 April 2019 (UTC)
Interested editors may want to participate in Talk:List of Italian supercentenarians#RfC: Defining the 100 known oldest people. — JFG talk 08:59, 1 May 2019 (UTC)
What's the best course of action for the two pages in this category? Setting aside the uselessness of the category, there's no validation of their ages but they don't seem to be in serious dispute. I thought about moving these to the longevity claims category, which would empty the Indian category out and make for an easy C1 deletion. Thoughts? The Blade of the Northern Lights ( 話して下さい) 15:40, 6 May 2019 (UTC)
Editors interested in this project may care to contribute to the latest disagreement about the content of the above article. DerbyCountyinNZ ( Talk Contribs) 00:53, 11 May 2019 (UTC)
Please see Talk:List of the verified oldest people#Lucy Hannah. — JFG talk 13:27, 11 May 2019 (UTC)
I've started a merge discussion proposing a merge of Henry Burling into List of supercentenarians by continent#Supercentenarians in Oceania. See Talk:List of supercentenarians by continent#Merger proposal. The Blade of the Northern Lights ( 話して下さい) 01:50, 21 May 2019 (UTC)
See Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Govindananda Bharati and Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Totapuri. The Blade of the Northern Lights ( 話して下さい) 14:48, 23 April 2019 (UTC)
See Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Draja Mickaharic. Newshunter12 ( talk) 23:53, 27 April 2019 (UTC)
Also see Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Noah Raby (2nd nomination). The Blade of the Northern Lights ( 話して下さい) 15:31, 9 May 2019 (UTC)
After the success of Talk:List of Italian supercentenarians#RfC: Defining the 100 known oldest people, I have opened similar RfCs for Canada, France, Germany and Spain. Feel free to weigh in. Hopefully a firm consensus on sourcing will be established across the project. — JFG talk 09:37, 8 June 2019 (UTC)
Doesn't it seem a bit awkward that individual country lists are allowed 100 entries each, continent lists 50 entries each, and world lists back to 100 entries? I'm proposing this: country lists be limited to 25 entries each with a minimum inclusion age of 112, continent lists be expanded to 75 entries each with no age limit, and the world lists stay at 100 with no age limit. Country lists that don't have a SC count high enough to fill a 25 person article are deleted. Wikipedia is not a directory of old people and it is long overdue that it stops being a free webhost for GRG data. This plan would mean only the US, UK, Canada, Italy, France, and Japan would continue to have individual articles.
Notability doesn't fade, but all of these various lists were built around the GRG's verification data and they used to try to validate any claim they got. There was/is nothing notable about being on their lists. Lets face it: being 110 or 111 isn't in itself notable anymore and individual country lists have a lot more to do with nationalism then building a thorough encyclopedia, which is why there is such a discrepancy in how well maintained or not individual country articles are or what policies get enforced where.
Would an RfC(s) to establish these inclusion policies and then a group AfD of impacted articles be the best way to implement this plan? Community input is most welcome. Newshunter12 ( talk) 00:17, 12 May 2019 (UTC)
What do people here think about mixing oldest pet records in with human longevity claims? My thought is that such things should be their own separate categories or lists (something like Category:Longevity in pets or something like that, people who know categories better can probably find a better idea). Also, the category description certainly doesn't say anything about non-humans. There are enough of them currently in there, though, that just removing them without discussion could be controversial, so input is appreciated. The Blade of the Northern Lights ( 話して下さい) 23:00, 4 June 2019 (UTC)
The article on Gustav Gerneth was merged into List of German supercentenarians following an AfD and a merge discussion. The merge was then reverted, so that further discussion is needed. — JFG talk 08:17, 18 June 2019 (UTC)
See Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of oldest twins (2nd nomination). — JFG talk 09:53, 29 May 2019 (UTC)
The Cormac O Comáin discussion was relisted, and the Bernando LaPallo RfD is still open. I also just started WP:Articles for deletion/Fulla Nayak (2nd nomination). I think we're finally getting close to clearing everything out; once these discussions settle down I have a couple merge proposals, and possibly another couple AfDs, but I don't want to overwhelm the processes here. The Blade of the Northern Lights ( 話して下さい) 18:45, 16 June 2019 (UTC)
Look what's back: List of people in long marriages. DerbyCountyinNZ ( Talk Contribs) 04:54, 24 June 2019 (UTC)
There is currently an ongoing discussion and vote about whether or not there is an age dispute surrounding Jeanne Calment worth mentioning on the List of the verified oldest people. All interested editors can join the discussion here: Talk:List of the verified oldest people. Newshunter12 ( talk) 07:50, 4 July 2019 (UTC)
Further editor input is needed at Talk:List of American supercentenarians#Maggie Kidd. — JFG talk 15:13, 10 May 2019 (UTC)
There is currently an ongoing RfC at Talk:List of Italian supercentenarians#RfC: List of 20 vs. list of 100 to decide if the list should enumerate the 20 oldest Italians or the 100 oldest Italians. All interested editors can join the discussion there. Newshunter12 ( talk) 03:12, 11 July 2019 (UTC)
The recent death of Maria Giuseppa Robucci prompted the creation of a mostly-empty article. See Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Maria Giuseppa Robucci. — JFG talk 23:24, 11 July 2019 (UTC)
Are GRG photo galleries, such as those found here considered reliable sources for determining place of birth and death? The question has come up in this revert, where it was asserted that they're not RS. These specific sources doesn't appear to have been evaluated per a scan of WP:RSN and the old WP:WOP. I'm inclined to take this to RSN, but I want to know first if any previous ruling has been made about it. @ Newshunter12 may want in on this. schetm ( talk) 03:08, 12 July 2019 (UTC)
See Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/William Coates (longevity claimant) (2nd nomination). — JFG talk 11:29, 16 July 2019 (UTC)
I just reverted an editor by the name of DanielNavott on List of the oldest living people, who made a seemingly "helpful" edit according to his edit summary, but actually obviously screwed up the table. Looking at their few edits on other pages, it seems to me like they are engaged in slow-motion plausibly-deniable vandalism on various pages (ex. altering wording in unhelpful ways). Does anyone else agree or do their other edits seem constructive to you? Can an admin get on this? Newshunter12 ( talk) 06:05, 19 July 2019 (UTC)
There is currently an ongoing discussion at Talk:List of the verified oldest people#Long term dilemma with the Men's list to decide what option might be the best way to handle the fact that GRG validations of male SC's are functionally extinct, given the last was in May 2018, and the ramifications this has on the list of 100 verified oldest men. Newshunter12 ( talk) 06:44, 20 July 2019 (UTC)
Per the article, she's eminently notable, which is certainly a nice change of pace. What do people here make of her age? I can't find anything on the GRG about her, and while the sources are generally in agreement about birth/death they also have contradictory information about things like when she married (for instance, one says she married at 43, which would have been enormously unusual). Seems like a decent test case for how to handle non-GRG validated ages. The Blade of the Northern Lights ( 話して下さい) 16:55, 13 July 2019 (UTC)
Those seem to be the ones with the most unique material. I may some articles stored offline if anyone wants to email, but most are of the "Mother Berry's annual birthday" type and are pretty repetitive. I think most of the unique ones are either in the article or posted here. So, whatever folks want to do, this is what I've got. If people can find more stuff, that would be cool. My newspapers.com subscription expired. Montanabw (talk) 23:30, 17 July 2019 (UTC)
{{
cite news}}
: CS1 maint: extra punctuation (
link) ), and the Trove website might throw out another story
https://trove.nla.gov.au/result?q=female+jockey Nice article, I'm guessing the age is a furphy.
cygnis insignis
02:12, 18 July 2019 (UTC)
Just a heads up: I have reverted edits made to List of British supercentenarians and List of the verified oldest people over the final age of Alf Smith of Scotland. Multiple major reliable sources, such as this and this state Mr. Smith died on the evening of Saturday, August 3rd. I counted the days on a calendar since his last birthday to double check and it comes to 127. The 128 number being repeated by some media often still saying he died on Saturday is because a local official tweeted Smith died at 111 years and 128 days old. He was wrong though, as any calendar will tell you, if what the BBC said is true: "The former lorry driver and farmer, from St Madoes, Perthshire, died on Saturday night." Please help keep an eye on these articles, as this probably won't be the last time a well meaning editor changes articles based on this apparent media error. Oldest in Britain states he died on the 4th and given their fan club, it seems a forgone conclusion this issue is not over. Newshunter12 ( talk) 17:20, 4 August 2019 (UTC)
Project members might like to have a look at the edit history of the above article. DerbyCountyinNZ ( Talk Contribs) 18:43, 1 August 2019 (UTC)
The article Virginia McLaurin has been nominated for deletion. Interested editors can join the ongoing discussion at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Virginia McLaurin. Newshunter12 ( talk) 18:26, 9 August 2019 (UTC)
Just a general question to this project: Is there a category or list on Wikipedia of (verified) people who lived in three different centuries (eg. Emma Morano who lived in the 19th, 20th and 21st Century), and is there an offical term for such a person (eg. Triple-centurian)? Calistemon ( talk) 15:36, 30 August 2019 (UTC)
Guys, the questioner was likely asking a sincere question, not looking to make troublesome edits. You really shouldn't give snarky answers to seemingly sincere questions. This is a WikiProject. We should expect to receive general questions about longevity here. Randykitty, as an admin, you especially should know better and should make a better effort to answer good-faith questions in kind, striving to "model appropriate standards of courtesy and civility to other editors." Consider this your WP:TROUTing. Calistemon, I apologize for my colleagues' incivility. To answer your question, I'm not aware of any specific term for the specific instances you mention. schetm ( talk) 06:35, 4 September 2019 (UTC)
This should be nipped in the bud before it spawns others... DerbyCountyinNZ ( Talk Contribs) 10:39, 1 September 2019 (UTC)
Hello and greetings from the maintainers of the WP 1.0 Bot! As you may or may not know, we are currently involved in an overhaul of the bot, in order to make it more modern and maintainable. As part of this process, we will be rewriting the web tool that is part of the project. You might have noticed this tool if you click through the links on the project assessment summary tables.
We'd like to collect information on how the current tool is used by....you! How do you yourself and the other maintainers of your project use the web tool? Which of its features do you need? How frequently do you use these features? And what features is the tool missing that would be useful to you? We have collected all of these questions at this Google form where you can leave your response. Walkerma ( talk) 04:24, 27 October 2019 (UTC)
Another recreation of a deleted article. Speedy deletion tag removed, IMO inappropriately. DerbyCountyinNZ ( Talk Contribs) 02:33, 10 November 2019 (UTC)
There is an ongoing discussion at Talk:List of the oldest living people regarding the size of the article's list. Interested editors may join the discussion there. Newshunter12 ( talk) 21:14, 1 February 2020 (UTC)
Editors are invited to comment at Talk:List of the verified oldest people#RfC on sourcing. — JFG talk 08:23, 23 February 2020 (UTC)
Editors may be interested in joining the discussion at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Sophia De Muth as it relates to this topic area. Newshunter12 ( talk) 05:36, 7 July 2020 (UTC)
I don't have the time right now to nominate for AfD or RfD, but will try to begin processing these soon. In the meantime, any are welcome to create their own nomination or provide evidence why they should remain as is before I do so.
Laura Scales Not finding sources on this woman and all those in the article are affiliated with her employer or are self-published materials.
Jones Morgan All sources self-published, except one print newspaper source we don't have access to and possibly doesn't actually exist. Found a brief obit here.
Peter Mills (enslaved person) Recently created, with two print sources that can't be reviewed. Not finding any coverage.
Helen Stetter is a redirect to nowhere, as she is no longer old enough to appear on List of American supercentenarians.
Alexina Calvert is a redirect to nowhere, as she is no longer old enough to appear on List of British supercentenarians.
Nijiro Tokuda is a redirect to nowhere, as he is no longer old enough to appear on List of the verified oldest people or List of Japanese supercentenarians.
Dumitru Comănescu does not appear on Oldest people, never had an article, and was only recently created as a redirect. His 59th place entry on the men's list at List of the verified oldest people does not warrant a redirect.
Erminia Bianchini Recently created redirect of deceased woman briefly oldest living person in Italy at slightly 112+. Newshunter12 ( talk) 07:09, 7 July 2020 (UTC)
As I don't read Polish, and I'm not familiar with the notability guidelines for clergy, I'm unsure about this. Not nominating it for AfD just yet, but I'm unclear on exactly what she personally would be notable for. I see she got some recognition for being part of an organization involved in the Jewish resistance during WWII, and that she got recognition in Kraków media for reaching 110, but that seems to be it. The Polish article on her is actually even shorter and has 2/3 the sourcing. But since this is definitely more substantive than the typical "born, lived an unusually long time, shuffled off the mortal coil", thought this was worth mentioning here; if she is actually notable, I'd happily add some new material to the article too. (Also, although it was previously deleted per G5, another user in good standing restored it and did some work on it, so that criterion isn't applicable) The Blade of the Northern Lights ( 話して下さい) 19:25, 21 January 2020 (UTC)
Nominated for deletion at WP:Articles for deletion/Maria Roszak (2nd nomination). The Blade of the Northern Lights ( 話して下さい) 18:47, 23 August 2020 (UTC)
See Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Fredie Blom. The Blade of the Northern Lights ( 話して下さい) 17:27, 3 September 2020 (UTC)
This thread is currently at an impasse. Please contribute to the discussion so that WP:CONSENSUS can be reached. DerbyCountyinNZ ( Talk Contribs) 07:20, 29 October 2020 (UTC)
Another non-notable longevity claimant up for deletion: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Francisca Susano. DerbyCountyinNZ ( Talk Contribs) 02:26, 3 December 2020 (UTC)
Hester Ford is the oldest living person in the United States following the death of Alelia Murphy on November 23, 2019. Based on my minimal research so far, it looks like thats the only major thing she is well known for (her age). As I don't know much about the guidlines/rules regarding a seperate article for a person who has lived a long time, is Hester Ford noteable enough to deserve her own article? If not, where should I merge some of the articles information?
Recreated and returned to AfD. Courtesy link for interested editors. Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Hester Ford (2nd nomination) StarM 23:33, 14 December 2020 (UTC)
The article has been re-created and speedy delete contested on her talk page (for the usual longevity fanfluff reasons). I see no content in the current article which demonstrates more notability than the previously (unanimously) deleted article. I don't have time this weekend to do the Afd so will get around to it next week if no-one else gets to it first. DerbyCountyinNZ ( Talk Contribs) 22:00, 11 December 2020 (UTC)
There are nearly two dozen supercentenarian lists, primarily consisting the suite of " oldest by country" lists. These sprawling lists of people overwhelmingly lacking any lasting notability are of dubious value as is, and are prone to lapses in entry quality standards or being a walled garden. A long-term solution would be a way to centralize a reduced data set into several lists.
I propose this: Keep Oldest people, List of the oldest living people, and List of the verified oldest people as they are; merge all country lists into an expanded List of the oldest people by country that allows say 5 women and men per country (number negotiable), and convert the various List of supercentenarians by continent lists into 75-100 strong lists of the oldest from those continents, instead of the present Asia (but without Japan!) or North America (without the United States or Canada!) business.
This would accomplish many positive changes. It would be easier to maintain the lists, eliminate the "Notable supercentenarians from other Asian countries" list that includes seven men and one woman that doesn't remotely reflect real-world SC statistics, eliminate entry cruft (ex. Maria Schmitz F 27 August 1886 22 October 1996 110 years, 56 days Rhineland North Rhine-Westphalia), and defuse the time-bomb of allowing 100-strong lists of the oldest people from every country on Earth.
Would the community support such a proposal to keep the best, most notable content, in a more centralized organized fashion and do away with the rest? Pinging @ TFBCT1, who is not a member of this project, but who has done more then any other to maintain the various supercentenarian lists for over a decade. Newshunter12 ( talk) 03:21, 2 November 2020 (UTC)
I have nominated the Lucy Hannah redirect for deletion because there is no longer any content about this person on the target page List of American supercentenarians. Please comment at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2020 December 29#Lucy Hannah. — JFG talk 23:04, 30 December 2020 (UTC)
Anyone still interested in this project may care to contribute to the latest dispute in this article. DerbyCountyinNZ ( Talk Contribs) 10:35, 14 January 2021 (UTC)
If I write articles titled "List of Oldest Sardinians," "List of Oldest Icarians," etc, would these articles meet WP:N? The majority of Wikipedia lists related to longevity are based on nation states (ex. List of American supercentenarians); however, it seems to me that there is particular interest in Blue Zones and their relationship to longevity. These lists would thus be regionally-focused as opposed to nationally-focused. I am asking here because I do not want to go through the work of creating the pages if they will ultimately be deleted for not meeting notability. Thanks GreenVolvox ( talk) 22:46, 22 August 2020 (UTC)
Anyone here with an understanding of the Chinese language willing to conduct additional research to see if any of these 110+ individuals can be added to the various longevity lists? The oldest, Xu Senzhen (徐素珍), is well over 113, but sadly, this source seems to only report birth years and months, not including days, which isn't enough to add them. Newshunter12 ( talk) 03:41, 31 January 2021 (UTC)
There's someone at that article arguing there's no actual dispute over the age of Silas Simmons. Input would be welcome. The Blade of the Northern Lights ( 話して下さい) 04:26, 20 January 2021 (UTC)
Does anyone else think List of the last surviving American slaves should be sent to AfD? Not only is the topic obscured by the fact that most black Americans in those days didn't know how old they were and no records were kept, how many fanfluff slices of life on Earth ( List of last surviving veterans of military operations, List of long marriages, List of oldest living state leaders, List of surviving veterans of the Spanish Civil War, List of last survivors of historical events, List of notable surviving veterans of World War II) are we going to allow? The problem is clearly continuing to metastasize. Newshunter12 ( talk) 18:24, 11 February 2021 (UTC)
See Talk:Habib Miyan#Redirection. Years ago I boldly redirected this article to a targeted section on Longevity myths, someone reverted. Input there would be welcome. The Blade of the Northern Lights ( 話して下さい) 16:43, 17 May 2021 (UTC)
E.g.: List of the oldest people by country
In addition, people listed on the page above are not the oldest listed in their respective country pages, e.g. Supercentenarians from Portugal (not to mention wp:overlinked countries, deprecated HTML tags and table wp:accessibility noncompliance, i.e. MOS:DTAB). I fixed all that, and fellow editors ( Bart Versieck [9], TFBCT1 [2]) have thanked me for it, but a couple others are adamant about keeping them broken. Any suggestions?
Here are my revisions they reverted:
— Guarapiranga ☎ 22:28, 28 July 2021 (UTC)
Who also anointed you to suddenly and without any prior discussion, dramatically change the entire suite of longevity articles?
prior", edit and reversion steps ( WP:BRD).Now to answer your main question:
Why is an entire country of birth tab needed when in 95% of cases, it's an exact data duplication to what exists now?
United Kingdom (more) Charlotte Hughes[59] F 1 Aug 1877 17 Mar 1993 115 years, 228 days England England Annie Jennings[59] F 12 Nov 1884 20 Nov 1999 115 years, 8 days England England Eva Morris[59] F 8 Nov 1885 2 Nov 2000 114 years, 360 days England England
United States (more) Sarah Knauss[43] F September 24, 1880 December 30, 1999 119 years, 97 days Pennsylvania Pennsylvania Susannah Mushatt Jones[60] F July 6, 1899 May 12, 2016 116 years, 311 days Alabama New York Gertrude Weaver[60] F July 4, 1898 April 6, 2015 116 years, 276 days Arkansas Arkansas Extremely sexy ( talk) 03:18, 29 July 2021 (UTC)
For that to work, the tables need to have the same columns (see how in List of oldest people by country it is now pulling the top 3 oldest supercentenarians from the US, UK and Portugal, which in the latter case was previously only showing two, the second of which wasn't even in the top 5!That is because the second entry for Portugal was the country's oldest man, not a failed attempt to have the top two oldest people. Dramatically changing articles, including the scope of nearly every article, such as the above example, should have been done with prior consensus. The same with adding seas of red links and changing the entire coding structure of some articles. The above example shows you do not even understand how these articles worked, yet you waltzed into a topic area you had hitherto contributed nothing to, and took a hatchet to everything in sight (three rounds of mass re-naming the same articles and counting, among so much other damage). Newshunter12 ( talk) 03:30, 29 July 2021 (UTC)
There's a discussion going on at Talk:List of the oldest people by country concerning this topic. Renewal6 ( talk) 11:59, 5 November 2021 (UTC)